 All right, cool. So my name's Ty. I sit at the table and talk about what they really believe, what the strong beliefs are, how they reach them, and then basically what position that they were true. Got my card and I'm happy to talk about whatever you believe to be true and why you got there. That is a terrible wallet. Oh my god. I've had it since high school. You can buy another one. I know, but there's other things I could buy. Not if your money falls out of that wallet. All right. Anyway, I'm Ty. Nice to meet you. Michael. Michael. Michael. I had a marker to write on the marker board, but the ink died on me last night. Oh no. And it's a sign of heaven, right? Michael, what do you believe to be true? Or what's the thing that you believe are most certain about? Is it something that you're most certain about? Well, I guess the one thing I haven't got to talk about yet today is morality. Okay. I think morality is absolutely independent of any god of religion. You're absolutely certain that morality is absolutely dependent of any god of religion? Yes. Religion does not require. How confident are you from a scale from zero to 100? That that's the case. Yeah. 98. 98? Okay. Okay. What got you so high? Well, it's just so I've been talking about morality because as a former Christian, I've been talking about morality ever since I started questioning things. It's probably been the thing I've talked about most. Okay. I've read a lot of books on the subject, different philosophies, different ideologies. And I'm absolutely convinced that there is nothing about morality that requires some sort of morality giver. Okay. I think a good way of probably demonstrating that is if you have a morality system that does not have a religious which is the least thing I do. Could you mind tell me about it? So I believe the morality just involves the actions. Okay. Morality is just the actions between individuals and affects the well-being of those individuals. I like that you use the word well-being. I think by well-being you're agreeing that life is more perfect. Sure. That helps you better than sickness. You can start with those very basic facts. Yes. You're talking about very basic facts about morality. You're talking right up exactly what I would say. Yes. You can start with very basic facts about reality. Like I said, life is generally preferable to death. There are exceptions to these things. Pleasure is more preferable than pain. There are exceptions. But you can start with basic facts of morality and move from those basic facts to discover what is immoral in any given situation. And the cool thing is if you're wrong and you come up with a wrong rule, you can always reassess that and change that. Yes. Because there's no there's no overarching lawgiver. This is what has to be the case. It's a self-correcting system. It's a self-correcting system and it has the system has any the goal of getting better at getting better. Why is it really any better than someone who has a list of rules that's from a ultimate authority, ultimate source? Because because the religious like that kind of authority where there's just a morality handed down isn't a system. It can't improve. Right. It's a dictation. It can't possibly improve. Right. I agree. Why is your wallet so raggedy, man? Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. You can have a backup wall. Just you can buy a backup wall. You can frame that one. You can frame that one of like, hey, sentimental value or how old are you? I'm 29. So you're you're well out of high school. Yes, sir. You can get rid of that thing, dude. So my girlfriend was going to buy me a wall for my birthday and I never she just never took I just never went to go here. Have you seen what you can do with duct tape and making wallets? I'm not going to make a duct tape wallet. Dude, you can totally make a duct tape wallet. It's better than the wallet you got right now. You know that. That might actually be true. Okay. All right. It's good to talk to you. Maybe we can talk about something we disagree with. More or less. What do you think about free will? We had working different working definitions of it, but as soon as we explained what we meant by free will in these work capacities, we're like, yeah, that doesn't exist. Yes, that could exist. Maybe somewhere between me. Oh, you want to go back to it? Oh, I'm just going to say this real quick. We still got time in the hourglass or five minute glass. Maybe let's bring something up. So for me, so there could be two situations, right? You can get up out of that chair and walk away or I can be dragged or someone can take you. This is the thing I was telling you or someone can come. This guy says that that doesn't exist. No, no, no. We agree that that is the difference between those situations is everything I think is worth calling free will. Yes. That's free will for me. That is free. That's how I define free will. He has a different definition, which is something that would agree doesn't exist. It's fine. It's not going to hurt you. We're outside. The bug saying, Hey, there's a human in my grass. I know, right? But his definition and let me know if it's fair is and let me know because I'd like to know if we got a long drive back. So I won't mess this up. You can't make a decision that isn't based on something or some influence that you've had in the past, thereby every decision you have is not freely autonomously made. It is based on something that you've had. It is predicated on previous experiences, previous knowledge. You cannot come up with a random number. Sure. But the number you give me is going to be not your choice. Yeah, just and even then we could look at your brain and see it weighing options. So I subscribe to what's called compatibilism, which is the idea that free will is not incompatible with determinism. I don't see any evidence. Because he's defining free will as something else. That's what I said. The scenario I set up is that's the only thing that I could think of that's worth something free will anything else like this libertarian free will. I could do whatever the hell I want. That doesn't exist. And my argument with Eric, that way I think we both came to terms with this, we can both agree to call something free will, but it may not actually be free will. And if that's the case, then yes, that thing that you brought up and that I've littered you and I understood, we can both agree that that doesn't exist. But that may not necessarily be free will. The reason I'm here, a lot of people make your same claim is that it doesn't matter. Like, like, why should it matter that we're not able to use because we still have agency? Well, it matters because motorcycle playing the Avengers theme song. That's so awesome. So the reason why we worry about the idea of free will is because we live in a world where we have to worry about holding people accountable for their actions. And in order to hold people accountable for their actions, we have to assign some sort of agency, some sort of acknowledgement that someone made a decision to do this. Right. But knowing if that was something that they could control, or it's just part of their biology is, I think, important when we decide how we punish them. And I'm never saying that, like, oh, if someone goes kill someone, you say, you're fine. If you didn't mean to do it, it was just your biology. No, they're still responsible for it. And we still incarcerate them because that will deter others from doing it. I mean, even if it's completely deterministic, then this person seems to be just inherently inclined to do this sort of thing. So we need to keep that person in check. Well, or at least, at least I'm going to jail might influence them to change their behavior. Influence other people. That can happen. But I think the real important thing is admitting the truth about it and then studying the science. Because if we can, do we ever look up who the person was we were both thinking of where they had a tumor? Well, no, they had a tumor pushing on a part of their brain. Yes, he was like, he killed a lot of people and again, we decided not to look him up to and we even sat on camera just just just edit out this part because we really look like fools and can't think of his name. But but knowing that knowing that, hey, you could you could prevent some some real damage by by doing that. Yeah, I think we're getting kicked out. Yeah, we got it. Yeah. All right. That was fun. Thank you. But you all going to set up at the house if you want. Are you coming? We got another block party thing that we're going to go to. Yeah, it's 2 30. I'm good. We're good. Uh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. First thing you that pops up in YouTube when you type in, let's check my bids. That is not true for everybody. It's not true for everybody. I tried it. It doesn't doesn't work. So it must be your your my cookies. Yeah. Okay. I'll work on that.