 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer, and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tyler. What's going on, buddy? How you doing? Good be here. This is three or four weeks in a row Take the track at this point pretty much. Yeah, well, I mean we had Paul some time ago We gave you a break there, but you know now. That's true. Yeah, I think we're on three weeks in a row There you go. There you go. Also joining us very happy to have her little Marathi, Marcella. How you doing? Good to have you on the show Good to be here We are going to be talking about first of all don't ever feel bad about a dog jumping up. The dog on the camera can only hope I can only So there you go Feel free to bring the dog on camera as much as you like especially as yours doesn't seem barky like mine but We're gonna be talking about Battle Scroll. We're gonna be talking about points. We're gonna be talking about endless spells The whole shooting match or at least the rest of the shooting match, but of course First up well first up you should hit like like and things like that and do all those things because it helps Other people find the show especially here at the beginning YouTube's always watching with their algorithms But of course the news Tyler, what's up? Yep rumor engine So we were talking about it before the show Maybe flesh in her courts. Maybe some kind of banner then she thought maybe a New cities of Sigmar banner. Well, I'm gonna stand behind my my secondary guess because to be fair Marcella said maybe it's flesh eater courts and We expect them to be getting a new book and We just recently saw but first year courts are supposed to be like new Bretonian right Yeah, sure so maybe They Maybe they're getting their banner guy like Old World we got the Bretonian banner guy because Bretonian needs a banner guy That's like a thing So this is FEC's version of the banner guy, right? This is the missing component from the old Bretonian army now brought over It's also clearly like a little vampire skull or something So it could be like a city's good guy thing where they're like displaying that they killed this thing I go for yeah Those are my guess one of the yeah one more interesting rumor engines. We've had in a while. So it's nice Yeah, very cool. Love the beating heart in the middle still like that's cool. Yeah, although That's not how big hearts are I I'm I'm afraid that maybe if your heart is this size you please seek medical help immediately You are in significant medical distress. That is called cardiomegaly There you go, there you go, I I did not expect you're gonna bring it be able to bring your your professional expertise into play that quickly But there we go. Yes, that's right. That's fantastic. Uh, yeah, so that's that's not how big hearts are at any rate What else we got? We had a article on some new shooters freegill Fusiliers take aim and fire the enemies of sigmar So I of all of the units that we've seen so far personally I do like this one a little bit more than most of them kind of kind of interesting What we've got going on here I had to give us a little bit of the rules for them which we won't bother getting into you got a little Resupply runner model that's gonna come with this once we're battle the starting phase and the third assessment battle rounds You can say this unit will be resupplied by its black powder squire If you do so you can reroll hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons by this unit until the end of the phase So that's kind of cool But yeah, morcella, what do you think about these guys guys and gals? I really like the models They seem like true to like the old ish style, but they still look new ish So they maybe they'll appeal to both the old and the new gamers But these are really cute models I want to know why we're going backwards in technology What is going on in this world how are we Yeah, like We're these are older Style firearms than was traditionally used in the old world So like What what where? Huh? Do we lose tech? What's going on here? Uh, but at any rate, um, they're cool. They're cool dudes. I love the return of the paves. I was a always a fun Was a fun addition to a model Feeling very dogs of war here was bronzio's Seeders or something. I'm trying to I think that might have been what they were I don't don't remember all my dogs war units, but there was the They were they were crossbows and big giant shields, but nonetheless You know overall, yeah cool Continue with the stupid helms. I don't like but other than that That's fine. But it's part of the aesthetic for this army So yeah, I think that's all we got It's a quiet news week. It's a quiet news week. Uh, and that's that's okay Well, we can we can move on. Let's talk about uh some pick of the week Because I know we've got a we've got a good number of those. Thanks to someone Just just absolutely Uh, Marcella, why don't you start us off? What's your pick of the week? You want to share with everybody? Uh, so my pick of the week is louise's, um Latest video I'm really into like, you know, like female content creators because there's really not as much in the war hammer community And I really love her stuff. I subscribe to her patreon. Um, and she actually Has like these little goblin She makes every month that you could download and print if you're like at a certain level on the patreon So really like those but her video this week was really fun because it was war hammer confessionals and some of them are Absolutely ridiculous Week Nice nice. Yes, uh louise is awesome Uh, I had the the pleasure of hanging out with her some last time I was over there. She is like Completely genuine. That is just her. She's uh, really really a wonderful person and a great artist and I'm glad I'm very glad that she's making content and and the channel seems to be growing like gangbusters, which is fantastic So links down below Uh, go check it out. She's got she's got new merch. I saw I saw a tweet today. I think yeah some t-shirts and stickers What kinds of some nice looking dice? Yeah Yeah, we got it. We got merch store move. Oh, yeah Right happen Uh, tyler, what do you want to share with everybody? Six things at least I don't know. I lost count. Uh, let's see. We've got The new generic tournament organizer pack by garith Which is quite good. It's updated for the new ghb. So big fan of that pack Rob had robin company with the honest wargamer. They put out their new terrain guide again once again updated for the new ghb So just recommended terrain layouts And other good things which he used over the weekend at his tournament Very first tournament with the two-dayer the ghb did a little video on that just the other day And then I wanted to give a shout out to gunhammer. So gunhammer.com a couple of things They've had a lot of great coverage of the new book, but they're actually looking for writers right now for more aos content So if anybody's interested just hit them up Go to the website hit them up or hit up mike or alice on on twitter And yeah, they're like anything and everything is basically what they said So that's awesome. Yeah, if you've got some opinions and many of us do And you like writing here's a chance. Absolutely. Yeah, it's good stuff That's great Uh, yeah, no fantastic all all good recommendations all the way around Mine if our battle scroll review isn't enough for you Well, hey, guess what our good buddy friend of the show and all around fantastic human dug Mr. Two plus tough also did a little review of battle scroll and Dador So that is linked down below you can go check that out And uh and see what he has to say about it. I imagine he's examining it from a more narrative perspective So we'll we'll see what he has to to say there. It's uh spoiler. It's really good. It's fun. So Go check it out Okay, awesome. Uh, well, hey, we're just moving along at a fast click here Let's talk about some hobby time marcella. What what are you been working on? What what are you painting up there? What's on your desk? Okay, so the latest thing that I've been working on is I got a pair of crocs, which is a first for me Um nurses aren't allowed to have them without it being Uh, you know, like weird and uncool. Uh, so I got myself a pair of crocs and I've been making like those little charms With uh goblins and squigs on them So I made like the little gizbit things that like stick in the crocs and then actual goblins that are painted like the little miniatures An actual squig herd and I like pluck them in there. Those are going to be my tournament shoes That actually counts. That is that that's good. You're safe. That's fine. That is real hobby. Absolutely approved fantastic Love it. That's great. Very fun Uh, that is awesome. And yes, that that is you get comfortable comfortable shoe wear or important You know, like you got to you got to stand apart at a tournament. Absolutely. Sure for sure. Sure. Yeah, and that will that will certainly stand out Uh rack up those appearance points. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Tyler, what about you buddy? What are you what you've been working on? Yeah, I got some games in Uh, so I think I'm getting my list now down for stormcast and so yeah, I haven't started yet But it will be happening soon. Get the get the painting started. I had a one dayer. So I got three games in And yeah, I'm loving this new season personally I think it's great. I love the magic system the The battle tactics a little harder. I think it's interesting The yeah, just and some of these missions are are a head trip like they're They're fascinating. So yeah, as I said, the bones of this season are really good. It's it's the You know, I said that last week and I stand behind it Battle tactics battle plans that kind of stuff. I really think this is a fantastic season Uh, there are as I as we talked about really three battle plans. I would jettison right off the the roof But hey, that's that's just the life. How have you been running your stormcast? So you're running some middling wizards. How many encounters are in your list? A mere two A mere two a mere two automatic dispels. Yes. Okay. Got it. Got it Very good. Any other dispelling based allies you've gotten there. Are you trying to cast any magic tyler? Are you trying to just shut it down? That is the debate. Yeah, it's definitely i'm all in on the anti-magic I mean if your order why not So particularly your way cast that's that's yeah, that's that's not hard to put the one on one together So, uh, yeah, the they're in a great place right now stormcast I'll say more about them later when we get to the point changes and all that but very good place. All right, excellent Uh for myself So basically after we did the show the next day fairly quickly I had to go fly away to do a dnd tournament or dnd tournament the wrong thing a dnd marathon all weekend Uh, so I was basically doing that until then I actually flew somewhere else or for work And I got back last night like midnight So I've literally been on the road and unable to hobby for almost the entire time, but I did get some more work done on this Uh, beautiful girl here for my wife. So that's coming along This is really killing all of the nice colors and tones out on this wonderful camera that is not capturing anything As it is rendered in life, but trust me it looks much richer and stuff like that in real life So she's very big as this is a 90 millimeter scale miniature Almost breaking the the definition of what a miniature is But that's coming along really nice and I'm excited to Have that for my wife there and we're going to have some some fun things going on So that'll be um That'll be hopefully my project to finish up over the weekends And then then we'll get on to some more new stuff. I still got my little towel boys sitting back there who are wanting some more Some more love. I've got to get up to my thousand points Uh, okay good, uh With that I think we can just jump right into the main topic. I say let's that's a that's a record. I think let's get them I worry we are we are moving. Well when they don't give us any news, you know what I mean like that's That's true. That's what we do. Okay. Let's talk about battle scroll. There's a lot of individual Sort of things to break out and talk about here. We're going to talk about some of the rules changes Points changes We're going to do the endless spells now that we actually have the points and can look at those and evaluate them Sort of in context not just to how some of them changed but also like what are they worth? Uh, and so we'll we'll be diving into all of that Uh, and all of that will be time stamped down below For you who are watching in the future. Hello in the future. How is it there? I hope it's nice As we go into the main subject here, you know, hey If you're excited about some of these changes or not, why don't you hit that like button? You know again, it just it's so easy and free and helped people find the show all right cool sit up some overview My overview is on screen, but instead of me delivering it. I'm actually going to start with both of you this time Okay, so marcella. I'm going to start with you What did you think like high level of this battle scroll? Are you happy with it? Did it contain changes you like? Were you hoping for more? Where where are you at? Where are you living with this one? So I do really like a lot of the the general changes. Um, I feel like Before there was a lot of ambiguity like with some of the rules And some of like the endless spells and they really like cleared up in the battle scroll Maybe like some disagreements that were common at tables, especially like high level tables It really feels like this battle scroll and like FAQ was written by someone that like maybe Plays at a high level or or is familiar with that more so than the other ones. Uh, so just I feel like It's easier to play now with less disagreements. Uh I did wish that doc would get a little bit more help Sure, but other than that, I'm pretty happy with it Okay Okay Tyler what's your take Yeah, I think it's for my money. It's one of the best ones that they've done I don't know if it's the best, but certainly one of the best ones that they've done. Uh, yeah I love the coherency change That's fantastic amazing. Yes, and uh modest but meaningful changes to a lot of the things that needed to get hit I like the modest approach, you know, like murderless. We didn't go crazy. You can still murderless corn players, right? You're you're so good But it's uh, it's a modest step and we'll we'll see how that goes And and a bunch of other things like that that some of the points were weird But for the most part, I thought the the points changes were we're not positive as well that yeah Kind of like along the lines what marsela said it reflected I and like on the positive I thought it they hit a lot of things that needed to get adjusted. Yep, you know in a meaningful way There's my still overall critique of this project It feels like there's a lack Of what I think of as like a a more hands-on curation final step with this kind of like a A common sense check if you will. I mean, I know a common sense is not created equal But hear me out the it still feels like we're still too data driven by these things So one example would be blade guys revenants with knight haunt So blade guys revenants, of course have lost the glacial veterans battalion and they've got a one inch reach, right? Yep, but there's still 180 points I I think let's get ahead of let's like actively curate some of these things that we know are going to be impacted By rules changes and then reflect that ahead of time Sure, rather than trying to kind of chase the tail So I I still felt that was too much chasing of the tail in this And what didn't get adjusted that should have gotten but overall pretty good Yeah, and I think that's always a balance that they're trying to strike, right? Like because they're they I know that you know a big tenet Of matt and of the team is to make data driven decisions Right, so not not just operate from your gut and stuff like that But actually like really deep deep dive into the data look at it from lots of different angles Lots of different slicing and dicing down to the unit level Right and and all that sort of thing on performance and then you know adjust accordingly And that's a good tenet to have Right because having a tenant like that Prevents some of the really unfortunate like knee jerk reaction changes that we saw in the in the In older days where you know suddenly an army would just get walloped and you'd be like well, that was way overkill Right. Yeah, absolutely You know the nurse so now she's getting nerfed like four times in a row Right, right as a good example not that it needed some of that it just didn't need all of that right And it's never come back really um At least not into a form that I recognize um And I I think that you're right though at the same time it's it's hard to walk that line to go. Well, you know We know we're going to make these changes how much is it going to impact Becomes tricky Right. Yeah, do you know what I mean? I'm not I haven't really spelled out what I mean by curation But you could probably guess some of the that variables, right? Sure us knowing each other forever in this space But yeah, I just I I do feel That's like not sufficiently incorporated as a final step of this process Where you have a group of well-informed folks who assess Where we've gotten to with that data driven first first orientation or first step sure and then okay, let's actually Now look at this world holistically I think nergal for example, I mean, you know, marcellus partial the daughter's cane. I'm partial to nergal the storm cast So when I look at nergal it almost feels like they ran out of page space On a lot of the things they they did not touch with nergal We had a little bit of room there after all of the the long call and the slaves the darkness point adjustments That got made which are understandable why they got made But yeah, there were a lot of things in nergal that seemed like could have gotten changed But yeah, there's there's just too much of that for my taste But maybe I don't know maybe I'm being a little nitpicky with it But I just felt like there's there's another level that we could get to with this Yeah, and I mean it's hard to address like a middle performer even if they're in the low middle You know and I mean when you really want to focus in on that the over performers the big under performers, right? Yeah, so And and I agree Sean that's that's I I think something we're gonna see probably more of my guess is this is the first Sort of test of that kind of thing, but we'll we'll talk it through I think to me what I was most excited about here was to see some real cool rule changes that have just been asked for For so long like these are these are good Quality of life changes. We've all known this is how it should have been Right like why were we not doing this right away? There's no reason to think that the some set rules are sacrosanct like changes or changes make the game better. Okay And I was happy to see a good mix of like both weaker armies getting some interesting stuff as well as stronger armies getting Hit because they do need it sometimes, you know, sometimes people will have been this sort of belief That you never nerf anything you just bring everyone else up. That's not possible That's just not possible and you'll create a an endless spiral of of competing arms race Right. Sometimes you have to bring the powerful things down Right. Yeah, especially when the tools that they're using are like clearly busted sideways Right, then just cannot possibly have a good game Yeah Okay Uh And so the question becomes How does this all interact? Is it enough? I guess we'll see right because there's a lot of variables changing here Right between the season and this and so on. Okay cool All right, anything else you want to say marcella anything else you want to say on this before we before we get into the details No, I would just say that like A lot of times the rules writers and like even the play testing team Well, you know, you can do all the prep and the data And the play testing that they want but like until you get it into the hands of like thousands of people You might not see stuff that'll come up So like these small changes are always More helpful than then fixing something big because someone might find an exploit somewhere And then just like, you know, it's out of control so quick When you make a big change, totally agree, right? Yeah Yep, it's like Yes, like and that's why they should be afraid of these rules changes, right? It's an inevitability That that you know some things are gonna change so so change the rules. It's okay. It's fine Do it if it makes the game better like you can be careful with it, but do it Okay, yeah David definitely some thoughts on trees. Yeah, we'll get into that later. Yeah. All right. Let's bring up battle scroll and to the door Okay, yeah First of all, I mean we're just starting with a banger here Unit coherency two to six models Unfurl the banner we did it mission accomplished. All right, we got there Is this perfect? No, as you mentioned, there are still some people out in the cold Uh, you know the 32 mil base one inch reach people still have to maintain their annoying little This Yep. Yep. Yep. This formation Yeah But like two to six models. Oh my god. This brings a huge swath of underperforming models Back into actual discussion as a unit of six. It means you can you can run these Thank god How it should have been written originally there's so many units in this game that are on big bases With one inch reach or something like that and they occur in in in units of three or something like that, right? Uh Exactly Gore grunt has and tons of things from flesh eater quartz and and and and and trolls and So on and so forth, right? So to see this go two to six is exactly how it always should have been I have no notes Thank you. Perfect. Yep. It's excited. The only thing that would have been better I guess I have a note you could have made it two to 11 and I wouldn't have complained I was gonna ask that what yeah, what do y'all think about that? Marcella, where are you where are you sitting on that? I think 10 or 11 Might be a lot, but I wouldn't actually know till I tried it Well, I guess we did try it in second edition and people like did the the conga line thing So, yeah, I mean to me when you've got 10 guys It's like you can still conga line to some degree with 10 models on a 25 mil base Because you can just stand them all next to each other in a straight row Right like your witch elves can just stand next to each other straight out, right? But you know what thralls can't they lost that technology, you know, so it's just like I would just love it if it was if it was just two to 10 or two to 11 And let's just call this a day and be happy with it and and and then all those little like sure if you reinforce them Then whatever whatever right but like a line of 10 dudes Standing next to each other to me is not a conga line. Like that's just a dispersed formation. Okay, like sure I like nine up to nine. I'd be happy with nine Then you can double reinforce the three units Sure sure Uh, but anyway Good change Now maybe change it to nine 10 or 11 you cowards. Okay, so Yeah, I mean exactly with As bar tech said, you know, if you're a scaven player you can you can technically conga line 60 clan rats in a row Like you can just run them out all over the whole board All 25 mil people can do that right you can just be sure great risk, but yes Sure, absolutely. I mean is it a risk with clan rats? I don't know they were going to die anyways But yes, it is at some risk That is true Okay, so I just don't see 10 is the real the real threat here Okay And next up another rules edition that I think everybody was writing off last week. Everybody was like, oh This is gone now heroes are just gonna die and you know, your small casters your ant Dorian Locuses will just all get shot and killed immediately. They don't even You know shouldn't even be on the board blah blah blah with the death of that and look what's here. My goodness We're back, baby Basically, so you must attract one from this is the lookout server by the way Uh for an attack made with a missile weapon If the target is an enemy hero within three inches of an enemy unit that has three or more models If that hero does not have a mount with the exception of a companion It also cannot be targeted By attacks made with missile weapons if the attacking model is more than 12 inches away from them And then doesn't apply to heroes of tenor more wounds, of course So Okay Cool good good stuff. Yeah, this is the right rule by the way. I stand behind this rule Because yeah I like this a lot. Uh, I imagine Marcella, you've done, you know, plenty of attempted assassinations with canary hoping for the uh, hoping for the good throw on a wounded hero there and This that's still possible right because if you couldn't drop with in between that sweet nine to 12 inch range You're in like Flynn target away right Yeah, it was a good transition from the not being able to shoot them at all to Moving into something different the good rule 12 inches agreed Like I really like this change because there is counterplay to it. It's not just shut it off You can't target them at all There's counterplay on both sides like how you can protect your heroes where you position them what other units you have how you're board controlling and and and You know Moving things out, but also there is answers to it. You can get people inside the line. You can shoot at people right uh, and It's great. It's good. So I like it very much so the the shooting that is generally removing people and is problematic Is always the stuff that's ultra long range like almost almost universally the shooting that it becomes problematic is ultra long range. There's Basically one exception. Um, it was also addressed in this battle scroll ironically But for the most part the shooting that has always been problematic in the history of aos is the stuff that's hitting from Generally beyond 24 inches So yeah, yeah, I'm still running shooting in some cast. I've not launched two by five vigilores I love them 150 points that yeah, they can't shoot heroes now all the sequel but they they've got other roles And long strikes will find other roles. So I yeah, I don't see it as a big deal personally Like I get it something's being taken away from your long strikes Should they go down further in points? I don't know. They got a twin-point drop. That's probably enough Yeah, like we could debate some of that stuff like where should they be pointed with this in mind But I think it's fine. Yeah, it's not that positive for the game. Yep. Yeah better for the game But long strikes have suffered enough sure Sure Speaking of many layers of nerfs. Yeah, exactly. Sure um Okay, uh our arcane tome Uh You know hero that does not have the wizard priest or corn keyword the bearer becomes a wizard that can only cast arcane bolt Mystic shield and spells to summon endless spells on your army roster They can attempt to cast one spell in your hero phase and attempt to unbind one spell in the enemy hero phase Uh interesting note there about what is missing Which is uh dispel an endless spell Mm-hmm, which they do not have the ability to do Yep, technically. No. Yeah as as right now. Yeah, exactly I don't know if that was an omission by accident or what but technically right now your Your arcane tome people cannot dispel in the spells Could that be the one point in the endless spells favor? Who knows? There's a lot against them, but there's one in their favor Okay Uh, and then they clarified as well that uh, if you if you have nine wounds or less and you're given an arcane tome You gain the andorran locus keyword, which good But you still can't pick a spell or you can pick a spell from the andorian like three spells But you can't cast them right because it says you can only cast Correct arcane bolt mystic shield and an endless spell. Yeah. Yes. I think yeah I love that level of like tentacle specificity. You just laid out like you pick it but you can't cast that's great. You can't cast it You can't cast it. Yeah. No, I think a hundred percent right. Yeah, yep uh, which is strange and counterintuitive I think and probably is a thing that should be changed like Yeah, because that kind of stuff always makes me uh sort of Winge a little uh, just because like a lot of A lower information player is not going to catch that distinction Oh, yeah Open to mistakes for sure Um, yeah, I understand the core rules say wizards have the ability to do this but They're then they're saying You are a wizard that does these things Right And So like that's hence the limitation Uh, yeah, this is an update to the core rule. So I would say that this battle scroll would supersede the core rule That they can dispel endless spells or whatever Yes, so I mean, you know all in all uh Interesting stuff there um You know we'll we'll see um The I and I agree with people to say like a lot of the um You know like a lot of the spell casters like wizard thing It doesn't necessarily say they can dispel it's just a sort of optional thing that's that's Put on there put put in there by the core rules because the core rules say like if you're a wizard You do this thing a lot of you look at individual scrolls They'll often say cast one spell and unbind one spell and so like there's it's not directly saying dispel I'm not sure in this case. They shouldn't back it in there just to be clear Since they're altering the base rules of what wizard means through the other text So um You know, I don't know It's something else in the In the core rules that you all or anybody in the audience Think would be interesting for them to consider looking at For the next year here before again into fourth edition I couldn't I was trying to think of anything and nothing really stood up We've had some conversation about the whole start of hero phase thing where I feel like there's all kinds of different things Right that trick at the start of the hero phase And I think Bench you said that you don't mind that like, you know, like oh, you can do a battle tactic At any point in your start of hero phase, you don't have to do that first Yeah, I mean absolutely I don't I don't want it to tightly define the start of the hero phase like it's all happening during start And you order it as you want Who cares? Yeah, it's interesting the strategy. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, it's a little skill testing moment Um Yeah, sure like other core rule changes. I mean going back to coherency and Moving it to 11 or 10 models. I would support that um Like fixing the entire enhancement section Yeah, I've been calling for that for a while. Yeah, I mean You know like I I really I Uh, I I just like I can't really explain how much I hate the enhancement section of the book So, yeah Somebody pointed out the line of sight rules. Yeah, I We're so what do you think about the line of sight rules in this game? Sometimes I still get frustrated But it's we've had the same line of sight rules for eight years now Yeah, I think it it catches people out some time Especially when you have like wild woods that technically block line of sight So like especially casual players or if you're not paying too much attention You can like intend to do something like when you Make your plan at the beginning of the hero phase And then you just like don't realize you don't have line of sight or that you need line of sight or that there's wild woods That's blocking your line of sight And it and it messes people up sometimes Yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, terrain rules. Obviously, that's uh, I'm seeing that here. That's a common one. Uh, no no disagreement there Need to need still need to get that better solidified. But maybe that we're just going to wait for fourth edition on that I guess at this point Yeah, I mean the answer is when you write 4.0, please put in real terrain rules. Thank you, right? Like that's that's where that's where we're at now at this point I've written it off ever showing up before that and that's fine Yeah, one terrain rule I really liked that they played at worlds this year in the netherlands is they had overgrown terrain for the wild woods Instead of the three inch rule It was one inch and that made a huge difference in a lot of the games and it made the wild woods way more impactful Because you couldn't like shoot through it more than an inch or you could even Be in three inch combat with someone and you wouldn't be able to shoot them if you're not if the model wasn't Less than an inch away. So it made a bigger impact on the game that I really liked. Yeah. Yeah, love that and you know, like that kind of stuff is good counterbalance to uh The power of shooting and to certain types of armies and all that sort of thing. So yep All right, let's get into some individual changes here. You mentioned it already grand alliance cast blades of corn Murder lust the most powerful thing on the table. Of course as usual existing as the first option The number of times in age of sigmar by the way that this Uh exists like that this Paradox exists where the cheaper thing or the lower thing or the the weaker thing is the best thing Is is so shocking to me Like it is fundamentally. We are fundamentally upside down so often in this game It just it's it's almost miraculous Uh, I know your point about endless spells over the years of that often being backward Any battle tone that comes out. It's like, what's the cheapest on the spell? That's the best one and not because it's cheap. It's just egg in a vacuum. It has the best rules, right? Uh, and then the most expensive one will be utter trash like that's every time every time uh, okay Uh, and hey lo said by the way, I would like for battle shock to continue to not matter. Um Yeah, I mean like there's fun ways you could use battle shock if we're going to keep battle shock as it is It should continue to not matter because no one actually wants their their models to run away But there's there's good ways you could implement battle shock something like what 40k does as we've discussed Okay, anyways blades of corn pick one friendly blades of corn unit that is more than three inch smaller units blah blah blah That unit can make a d six inch move and it can finish that move within three inches of any units You can spend blood tithe points on this reward up to three times At the end of each hero phase instead of only once Which you cannot pick the same unit to benefit from this ability more than once per phase So now if you want to move multiple units three units, it takes three points But if you want to move that one unit of blood revers, which is what you're doing You're still getting it for one Did this go far enough marcella? What do you think? Uh, I think it's still really powerful Especially when you can ruin someone's battle tactic with it. Yep You can there's a lot of utility in it I think playing corn as like a control army is is is really great and people don't expect that and and this I think it's still good for that Yep, I agree. Yeah, Tyler. What's your what's your take on this one? I mean because I've complained so much I'm just gonna take a pass on complaining anymore and just say let it's fine for now. Let's let's see how it goes It's fine It's fine t-shirt. Let's get a t-shirt going. I'm on board with it's fine Uh, yeah, let's let's see how it goes. It's probably it. Nope Nope, I'm done I'm done Okay, very good Uh, all right, let's move on to grand alliance death and I think a change that is very much needed Oh my goodness. I am cannot explain how happy I am to see this Okie dokie So blight grave lords endless legions. Is there a more annoying rule in the game? Well, maybe not Maybe not might be the worst Change the last two paragraphs to yada yada yada. Here's what's important It's on a four plus and it's nine inches away in the enemy turn There you go. I've summarized the changes here That's what matters This is their ability to set up their replacement units, which they will do just constantly During everybody's turn. They're getting a million bites at this apple And uh, they just don't care if their units die. They just get them recycled because you're not buying 20 zombies when you buy 20 zombies You're buying 30 Uh, like I just that is how I view this Every soul blight grave lords summonable unit should be costed as though you're getting 150 of that unit. I refuse to move from this point Okay, 120 120 points not doing it for you. Huh weird week weird Okay, even with the change by the way, I'm counting this and the thing we're about to read And I still think they're the like maybe arguably best unit in the game Yeah Okay, it's just not enough. This change is fantastic. Very happy with this Uh, so that's fine. Um So great good. Yay, right Uh Thank you for having to set up nine inches away. So at least during my turn So at least you can't just automatically steal away objectives from me, which is what's happening every time every time It was the worst. Yep Uh, I I lost a game at bugger GT because there's I you know, I had the gall maras You're supposed to hit things over the head with gall maras I hit some skellies over the head in my turn with gall maras Which lost me the game because those skellies popped up and stole my objective. Yep So I felt felt like an absolute genius really really good at war hammer I'm doing that. I'm doing that. No, that's just it kill things this Yeah, the the rule just punishes you for winning like it's a horrible horrible mechanic I really if this was limited to their turn only I would I would hate it a lot less a lot less It's and it's still be very strong Okay The fact that they get 10 bites at this apple instead of five is crazy Um, I mean assuming you're killing something every single round. Obviously, that's a very strange world But whatever you get my point Yes Uh, okay Dead walker zombies Each time a model in this unit is slain by an attack made with a melee weapon If that model is within three inches of the attacking unit roll a die on a five plus the attacking unit suffers one mortal wound Okay Beautiful Absolutely. Thank you the entire zombie unit can't just It's just magically jump forward 12 inches and kill everybody great good excellent Yeah, I mean Tyler your take on this particular change Yep, perfect. That's what needed to be. They know that I mean, it's still brutal Like let's not kill ourselves here. Like you charge into a unit of you know, 20 of these dudes It's pretty easy for most of them to end up being within three inches after pylon or something like that, right? Sure. Yeah But at least yeah, I mean, I know Brendan has been telling me you should be running zombies MSU You should not be running them in 60 you should be running them in 20 lots of lots of 20s So yeah, I wouldn't have a huge impact on that but Uh, it is as far as we're the absurdity of where we were starting. It's the it's the right adjustment And yeah, and now let's actually get the points up on this ridiculous unit So that we don't continue to see 180 of them or however many we're up to I agree. You're paying it's you're paying for 30 wounds and you're getting it for 120 points. It's still too cheap I will I will die on this hill Okay Marcel have you had the pleasure of many games console blight? Uh, I played one uh in boston with iron draws I played iron draws and they Uh, like they had like a unit of 60 zombies, I think and It was like just by luck that they didn't kill my maw crusher like when I Wipe the unit. Um, but now I like there's some counter play We're like now I could charge with the maw crusher like be within a half inch of like one corner Try to reduce like the number of wounds instead of just me getting 20 mortal wounds when I kill that unit Right, exactly. Yeah That was the previous world you kill that unit you get 20 mortal wounds. Congratulations. Unless they roll bad and then you die Yeah, what a great day. What a great day No, uh, okay And then oh and then 30 come back They get half your unit and then they take my objective and ruin my battle tactic. Yeah, right Yeah, they're balanced absolutely Yes, drew says, uh, vince will become a zombie on this hill. You are exactly correct That's right. Uh, I think we're just the points away from finally fixing this nonsense. So good Okay, let's keep going Uh, grand alliance order one big change here to the great nation of helon Uh, change the gale of killing shafts rule to in your shooting phase when you pick a friendly helon unit to shoot You can say that it will unleash a gale of killing shafts If you do so in that phase, you can add one to hit rolls and wound rolls for that unit's missile weapons But that unit can only target enemy units within six inches of it Okay Good. Yeah, we killed the extra attack We made and we flipped it over to a bonus. That's actually quite interesting and good for our antelope riders Plus one to hit and wound is actually a pretty pretty useful thing for them Uh, with their rend and such But completely worthless for sentinels who are just fishing Uh for sixes anyways or fives and sixes depending on whether or not a spell went off Uh, so Yay Yeah, exactly. Kyle nelson said gw for the love of god take something that isn't sentinels. Well, I mean People follow in sentence, right? So, thank you Marcella, what do you think about this change? This is great. I I love it if I were a luminous player. I would not love it But I'm not so There we go. Yeah Marty does make a good point as our luminous players stand in Heal on bad change this change does not interact with the army design Now you didn't give the example Well, he's probably more getting to the the mortal disagree Marty You think so? Absolutely. I think I think I'd agrees. I think it's perfectly in line with their design. It's fine Well, you've got Ballista which are probably not going to be within six inches Yeah, maybe every once in a while. This is meant for the antelope writers It's the antelopes. Yeah, and Yeah, I guess Does this work with if you have a cow? And heal on for some reason. No because the does the cow have a metric keyword? Anyway, I'm I'm just searching for what else this could work on with this army other than antelope It's the little antelope writers. That's it. That's all it is And it's because like it just it came to what it was The I mean the core problem here is still sentinels are too good with what they do Long-range mortal wounds are still too good And if you if you if you give any kind of bonus that's going to interact with that Which is what Marty's putting a finger on right the fact that like Plus one to hit and wound doesn't interact with a lot of what you're end up doing with your spells Where you're looking for natural rolls and stuff like that Right. If you if you if you lean into that it's just gonna it's always going to default to sentinels. It just will Yeah, right Oh They start out at fours and fours Or three's in a fours and fours three's fours three's and fours Marty if you if you're so there, yeah I think depends how far they are, right? Correct. They're assuming they're doing long range of fours and fours That's right. That's right. So I mean that's It's not terrible like if you yeah, if you're on threes and threes Or or even better. Yeah, two's and threes. I think it would be at close range That's not yeah with minus one rends. I don't know. It's not terrible but I mean, look, I I stand behind the fact that I do think the Uh, the little antelope writers was like keep calling them. I don't remember what their actual name is I'm looking them up right now Hurricane wind chargers. All right. Thank you hurricane wind chargers. Yes, the little little writers Um, I stand behind the fact that I think these guys are actually interesting models and Yeah And and like have some value and you know, they're their bows are very short range at 12 inches, but they're two attacks on threes and threes Moving them to twos and twos is obviously quite an sort of accuracy thing Um, the fact that they strip off ward rolls makes them interesting. So but you know Um, there is a challenge That haiti's points out that I don't totally disagree with that some part of that is also he said, you know Make more stuff in our book actually good and we would take less sendals Yeah, to some degree haiti's isn't wrong there, right? But there's like there is good stuff It's just there's there's stuff in that your book haiti's if you're gonna if you're gonna be our stand in here for lumina That most other armies would just kill for Yeah, okay. The problem is 30 inch mortal wound units are just Some of the strongest units in the game and it's gonna be very hard to like make almost any melee unit compete with that Because the that person has to walk over to you to hurt you And put themselves at some amount of risk whereas a thing that can just go where are you? I don't care I don't I'm joking. I don't care die Right is like almost universally better just at the jump So it's tough Well, yeah, when we get into their point adjustments Have some thoughts because I do think they got some nice adjustments to help with what we're just good They did get some good points adjustments. Yes, absolutely. We'll get into it. Okay. Yeah Uh, I agree Keith. I want it to all right. Um Okay Orc work lands add the following to battle tactics. I'm sorry. What? Okay Uh sneak up you complete this tactic if at the end of the turn every friendly cruel boys unit is within three inches of any terrain features And it's more than three inches from all enemy units Uh It's fine. It's doable. It's an achievable battle tactic. So okay It's fine And then that's our turf now You complete this battle tactic if at the end of the turn two or more friendly iron jaws units are within three inches of the center of the battlefield Okay Yeah, hell yeah I like it Absolutely. Yeah So many games iron jaws. Yeah, move up to control the center if you're And especially iron suns to control the center move up Got iron suns. Yeah come at me. Yeah. Yeah, I like that I mean, I find myself torn on this because on one hand the book battle tactics as we did our book battle tactics review show Um, the orc worklands book has like famously horrendous battle tactics sure And uh You know like really bad and Giving them both one that's achievable, uh, you know, although it's uh It's of course you are somewhat like I'm not going to call them automatic, but I would rate them both as easy. How about that? Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah Um Is an interesting play for picking up the strength of the army Right like is two points in a game What are you what are you getting out of that? Right? Um, I don't know I don't know Like Cool boys. I've also got some good points love in there. Uh, so like, you know, I I I don't I don't know it feels like Um You know, we did this we did the you see the previous changes down below Right. Yeah, uh to the there are dirty tricks to grin and blades now this like We keep Incrementing in hopes that we're gonna pull this army out of its nose dive. So I don't know So Marcella be curious your thoughts on iron jaws, but I can speak to storm cast I mean, I have a beautiful iron jaws army that's been sitting on the shelf for too long I need to get them out and get a get them to gt With storm cast if I had an extra Battle tactic that was pretty straightforward with storm cast who are also in a bit of a have been I would say in a tub situation Certainly with their book battle tactics, right as one of the first two books That would be very very meaningful in my mind In helping with games to have one more because essentially at least last season Uh, the reason I was running a nitro conus for example with luck stone for the prime imitation auto charge Is it turned on things like dragging the destruction with storm cast? Where if there's a unit of 10 more models, right? That gave me that fifth battle tactic that I would struggle to get because I would just ignore all the gc ones And then I would do the four that most of us were doing last season and then that was my fifth So anyway, that maybe it's something like that with iron jaws, but I haven't played iron jaws in a while Yeah, looking at the uh, the new battle tactics, I think having one extra helps You know, I don't know how much the two points helps overall, but in some Gts like the number of battle tactics tactics you got is like the tiebreaker and like rank, right at the end So it could it could help you a little bit But yeah, I think they did struggle to get battle tactics a little bit last Uh general sandbook and this one it's hard to because we only have I want to say like one natural wizard in the book for iron jaws Sure. So yeah, so you kind of have to take them and a lot of battle tactics are related to wizards right Yeah, my feeling is cruel boys are still got a rough road ahead of them. That's just my right sense of the thing So, um, hey good times for uh, big wall though, I guess because you got two new battle tactics. So Good good news there Okay Let's talk about another needed change Uh gloom spite gets squiggard I like that we're hitting both of the strongest units in the game because if it wasn't zombies, it's going to be squiggard These are the two Anybody who tells you anything otherwise is uh is selling something Okay, change the squigg's gone wild ability to each time a cave squig in this unit flees as a result of a failed Battlestock test before that model is removed from play roll a die on a three up. You can pick the closest Enemy unit within nine inches of that model That unit suffers one more to wound if multiple units are tied to be the closest within nine You can pick which one of them suffers So closest being the word that is doing the most heavy lifting there Uh, meaning you can't just like shoot over the top and kill all of their, uh Like all of their just, you know random Ant Dorian locuses or utility heroes. They're just sitting behind the line, which is I mean, let's face it That's what happened Basically all the time before this it would just be like reach over the top and kill that guy kill that guy kill That guy cool. They're all dead now. All right great neat Yeah, definitely a fair change Yeah, I agree They bumped it up from a two up to a three up, which is nice. Just make a little little less. Yep More wounds you're gonna be taken so Uh, which is you know better for sure Um, but like yes, I can actually you know If something in that unit survives it prevents them from having to being able to just kill whatever they want Behind the line because let's face it when you're right up in their grill Nine inches that you could just throw more to wounds around was really strong like you could reach way deep into their lines with that Um, so the fact you now have to pick the closest is great Um, and I agree Keith Rogers nice to see the overpowered units become strong units. Yes agreed Still a very strong unit Uh, okay, and then lastly an unexpected Thing. How about this? Sons of batamot change both of their core battalions to have the unified and instead of unified or Hmm Yep, cool. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah unexpected nice to see. Yeah neat What a fun quality of life change that is I'm happy about it Uh, I think I'm going to be running a lot of suns this season Um, because I'm a glutton for punishment as it were Battle tactics are still tough. Uh, surprise surprise. Yeah, I I won a game because my an amazing sense player Missouri walker Uh, Walker nap snap walker nap of these last names Anyway, he fell the four up and lost the game because he fell the four up on a the thing You have is like chain monstrous actions if like do all the monstrous actions. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah Anyway, so like, okay. Well, that sucks Uh, but yeah, they're they're tough man. Sun's right. I don't know. They're like, yeah, they're tough Thank thank god. They're not amazing at battle tactics. I'll just say that I mean, I'm going to run a very aggressive Uh, sons of batamot army that is just going to be all about killing and uh, and and go ham Like I am prepared to go Uh with a losing win rate. I'm going to bring down the entire sons of batamot uh Win rate, which is right down there But I mean, you know, sons can be like terrible in the season in actuality As we've said many times and still end up with a high Like a decent into the 50s win rate because it's very hard for them to go less than two three three two And when a bunch of people when you're just going two three three two almost automatically by showing up Right, you just end up with a 50 plus win rate, right? Yeah So Cool Okay, good excellent Uh All right, shall we shall we talk some points folks? Shall we go to the points? Yeah Okay, let's point it up All right, let me time stamp this Okay points Well, we're gonna start off more seller right in your right. We're right in your wheelhouse to begin with Uh, I'm not gonna read all of them people can see them on the screen But talk to me of daughters of kane points changes Is this going to be enough marcella to pull the daughters of kane out of their nose dive out of their tails? It it's definitely something um, I think the the problem That daughters had before was that marathi and the bow snakes were like very high in points And so you didn't really have a lot of points left over for screens For maybe an endless spell that would really help Uh, because it's just so easy to like get wounds on marathi and like kill the bow snakes Uh, so I'd like to I like seeing that a lot of the the points went down on the screens I feel like sisters a slaughter witch elves They went back down to where that they should have been I think they were too high before The avatar of kane going down 20 points being 130 I've seen a lot of people get very excited about running four of them in hagnar with a cauldron and then you can have like the five behemoths Um, so we'll see how how that ends up um Doomfires going down 10 is good. I have a whole bunch that I've been meaning to run So that'll be good. I think the blood rack viper going down to 60 is probably My favorite points change. I think we'll see that a lot more often Uh, funny. I actually completely agree with that that viper. I think is interesting It's the only thing that will stop it from showing up is if in fact endless spells are totally worthless in the season And just getting dispelled like yeah, I'm bound Right. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt Yeah, yeah, what do you think about the kana shadow suckers still at 140? I think they're still pretty high for what they do That's what I feel. Yeah But Yeah, they're they're they're they're fine. I guess but they they could be lower. I think if they were 120, I'd be happy Yeah, me 130 The the daughter's book has Some artifacts and a command trait that might be helpful this edition one that doubles The range of your endless spells and I feel like adding range to your endless spells If you can get them off and they don't get on bound it'd be really helpful Um, and then there is an artifact that lets you know All of the the laura shadows Um, so you could have like a blood rack viper instead of marathi And she could know all the spells and then you could pick the andorian locust Uh spell is the one you know and then you know seven spells So if you could you know cast something there, maybe with the primal dice that could be helpful So I I think they're in a better spot. I don't know That they're going to be at the same power level they were before Historically, but but they're okay. They're fine Nice I think there's a lot that's systematically against doc in their sort of currencies in current world more like the meta of just what books are out And how they're winning But I do hope this this does Uh ease some of the pressure like it's it's clearly opening up. Hopefully space for like maybe a unit In there. So that's that's interesting to me Yeah Yeah, Marcelle. Have you ever ran avatars? Are you running singles and any of your lists up over there? No, not in the last edition and I haven't tried it in the new one yet But I am building a four avatar list And I'm putting together my four avatars because I have one. I just have to build the last one So are you using the avatars off the back of the stat off the back of the the wagon? Or are you using avatars? Okay. Is one of them like the actual 40k avatar of king? Well, I do have that one, but he's like glued to a cauldron So that'll probably be the hag Um, so that'll be the hag on cauldron and then I have like a like a succubus lady That has like wings and a tail kind of looks like a harpy That's in the same shape and size as the avatar. So that's going to be my fourth like the proxy It's a very proxy ready figure because t-pose avatar of kane is just like the most boring thing to To have multiples of that thing is definitely ready for a proxy. Okay cool, um fire slayers like their their prayers went up because fine, I guess they're better in the season arguably because of the nature of them not being able to be taken out very easily and then The berserkers and the battlesmith went up slightly okay Yeah, seem a little surprising but Mostly 10 point increases. Yep um I should have looked and see how much vulcite berserk because vulcites or another one that got hit by the galley vets You obviously we used to see a lot of vulcite berserkers I'm not sure where they ended up point wise last season But I that's another one that came to my mind as basically did it get hit by galley vets? I figured those units maybe should have had a tick down and points There were a number of those units 32 mil one inch reach That yeah, so what I'll have to look here and see what they were at but Uh, yeah earth guard going up 10 probably fine I mean, I already marked out fire slayers as a potential loser this season And there's a couple people in the chat who seem to agree with me Uh, and so like, you know, I tend to probably agree with those people Um, I I just I don't think fire slayers have the gas but At the same time, you know for the seven people who play them. I'm not sure it's The biggest deal, but you know, here we are Yeah, but the like so vulcite 150 for the shields 160 for the hand axes Yeah, I I don't feel it's going on a little end to think that that's too high Going into this season with galley vets going away. Sure So yeah, like it's stuff like that I would have liked to have seen a little tick down Particularly if you're going to tick up the berserkers just to have a little bit better balance It's going to be a lot of berserkers I think and maybe some magmas Maybe some tunneling to get the mobility that you're going to need for some of these missions We've got like three or four or six objectives Just various missions have reasons to have real mobility in your list and they've got ways to be mobile That's Add some incantors Sure Sure the magic answer for all of order is Yes The a zero can't export night incantors fast enough the orders are rushing in Okay Uh Eatberry loves that I've played a west since mid 2018 and I have literally never played against fireslayers. There you go Shucks out. Okay Uh, I will say it's not that nobody in my Nobody in my You know local group has fireslayers, but I I have had the Uh, misfortune of playing against them multiple times of tournaments. I find them so often at tournaments that I Look there could be one fireslayers player in the room And I'm like, I'll just walk up and be like we're gonna play each other. Don't worry. It'll happen. I'm sure I'm gonna find you. I'm gonna find you. All right. Let's talk about deep kin Uh Lot of points moves down here. Uh, none of them super duper huge Uh, maybe the leviadon coming down 30 points But obviously that percentage wise that's not huge on his high points cost Idoneth deep kin obviously in a place where they were hurting very fragile Very much like doc In in sort of execution strategy to win Uh, and you know very much hurting under the current meta and current season Uh So Marcella, what's your what's your feeling on the idoneth points movement? I think we we could probably still leave them in the bin. Yeah, just don't take them out Okay, unfortunately, I think you're right. Yeah, they needed more support than they're getting here. I think It's not it's still not going to be enough. Yeah, it's still going to be pretty rough Yeah Yeah, they they needed some more drops It's it's I don't know it's I've played against them a number of times. It's tricky I mean, maybe the the six will help the more star eels to get back on the table See you in a six stretch them out Maybe that'll come back The each one need to be cheaper than 170. I think for them to see play With with the ample role that they're supposed to be The like I've been messing around with a variety pack list and it got 115 points back. That's enough for like a hero It's just it's not been a whole lot like it you look at it It's 105 wins still like the list with the 115 100 115 points like a back right. I'm still 105 I think 105 ones. Yeah with I'm not a lot of more to wind outputs Not enough rend usually it's like all of the basic issues that they've been having they're still going to have I think sure and So yeah, I don't think it's not enough enough of a change They've got what would you what would you have moved around more if this was if you're you know What would you have tried or what would you have suggested to them? So I think the idlands could stand to go down more The because they're not playing in the current season and and like with that Exactly spellcaster version isn't playing in the in the in the current season and They're just not doing a lot. I guess it's basically the the situation there Yes, yeah They and the aspect of the sea has a key spell that it wants to get off well, congratulations, you're often not going to get that spell off over the next year And uh, the shark still needs to go down more. I think the The Reavers 160 I think yeah, maybe they could stay I mean the initial concern that I had with IDK with that salty episode with Konstantinos way way back when the both came out Was the concern that you had a little bit, right? Vince the the double fighting on the thralls We we thought that that was going to be maybe potentially out of bounds Let's let's see and it we never saw it because we got bounty hunters shortly thereafter Yep It like does that come back a little bit if if thralls are are 110 120 Yeah, it just it still feels like I know it does more points really help them. There's got to be a point at which it does Yeah, Marcel any more thoughts on these? Yeah, like hey If they were less squishy like maybe if they all had like a six up word That might be like a bigger change than points Or maybe the heroes the little heroes, right? Yeah, and with their in range of the The shipwrecks. Yeah, maybe the range on the shipwreck was larger. Maybe like I don't know 18 20 inches something huge. Yeah, that would help Yeah Yeah, I don't know that it's points alone that would help them, but it would be a start right Yeah, I I agree with that. I think there's like some fundamentals there that are really tough for them in the current world And that's the challenge, right okay Arco or sorry Corridor and overlords. I was just reading the arco line Corridor and overlords mostly ups with the arco falling down slightly Chemist navigator admiral all going up a decent amount for little foot heroes And then the thunder is going up big time as it were on there I mean really quite a quite a large adjustment for For where they were from 135 up to 160 Well deserved in my estimation It's still good Like yeah, I think they're they're still solid If you yeah, you look at the accumulation of what that unit can do what they get access to Yeah, like that's that's still a very reasonable price in my mind Yeah, I agree. Agreed Marcella, what's your feeling on the ko changes? Is this going to bring them down out of the strap? Is it stratosphere down out of the skies of shimon or uh, or we just have some some minor changes here That won't really affect too much I think they're fine. I don't think they were like too overpowered or anything before but these are okay changes Especially because the thunderers were so good. Yeah. Yeah I think we're hitting the things that were offensive and it's really thunderers taking a big the big stick and they were the problem So Hopefully that's good. I mean it is impactful if you are spamming thunderers Obviously this will that will that 25 will add up very quickly. So yep. Yeah Okay Yeah, yeah, this felt really good very simple Just a few things needed they hit all the right changes as far as I could tell. Yeah, like most of that book is fine Yep, and pretty well pointed All right lumeneth realm lords Uh, largely a story of points drops other than of course archmage techless going up 20 to 740 Uh, because he's still going to be a powerhouse in this season regardless of uh, his weird spell casting and everything else He is still a magic dude He's maybe the magic dude, frankly Uh, but a lot of things going down Some pretty welcome changes here That are that are decent in in the amount of movement they had You know the huracan and severeth now that they when they got their Proper rules fix I felt like they were way too high. We talked about that in the In the show sometime back like, you know, once they weren't Doing the cheating to win anymore. They were just way over pointed like way over pointed Yeah And so happy to see that come down happy to see the light of el-tharian drop a little I think he could actually go down just a little bit more Um, like I think he could go down to 220 and I'd be pretty happy with that I think he's a really solid foot hero. Um, I think I think people under underestimate that guy Uh, so and then you know spear to the mountain Sure, it's fine. Again could probably come down, but this felt like a good first step to me For a lot of needed points changes in LRL Yeah, or so what do you think about these changes? I'm wondering if the like the counter play against tecla So we better know because you have the primal dice So at least like one maybe two of the spells would be way easier to unbind rather than him just like getting four off on 10 Sure, and And he can't use primal dice, right? Because he doesn't will die if he if he sets his spell Yeah, because he just sets his spell casting at 10s 12s. Yeah, so he can't actually use them. Yes, correct Yeah, obviously he he can for unbinding and dispelling, but yeah not for casting. Yeah Oh, okay. Yeah, see rolls for those. Yep. He rolls. Plus. Yeah Outside of the one he gets to just choose to do for free. Yes. Yeah Because he can't just point And then say no Oh, yeah, yeah, I was uh I was a big fan of these changes so After we went back and looked at all the battle tombs vents I the that night or the day after I watched a battle report on Battlestorm Wargaming And it was a fellow I'm forgetting his name He went 5-0 with this very cool luminous list. No teclists. No sentinels It was kind of like a twins list Elanian elathor and light of a therian and lightner cathlar Two ballista two ponies two wardens 10 blade lords Maybe other stuff. It was great like a three in the spells jaws twin stones, I think And the renipetra faction Really cool list This it reflects that kind of list in my mind Those are the kind of list that we'll start to hopefully see more I think there is real play in this battle tone Outside of the obvious and this this helps all of that. Yeah, I agree I think you'll probably see a round two of this is my guess Like I think we're starting conservative here and my guess is in the long run. You see a round two So that's my take on it Speaking of something needing a round two. Let's go over here to seraphon Uh next up in the list where it is a it's a mixed it's a mixed tale G I wonder what was out of balance In this list In the seraphon book Could it have been maybe lord croak and starboard nonsense Yes Yes, it was The only thing I'm not seeing here on the up points list Is my regular your your old fashioned regular frog Sure, yeah Although his ancillary stuff you used to protect him did go up like the source guard going up That's fine So like technically how much you're paying for your frog package is going to go up Um, but that being said, I still want to see the regular frog go up too. I think he's still too cheap Especially in the current season where I think he's just a wild powerhouse like maybe the emblematic andorian locus Yeah, kind of a obvious first choice ally or you know Yeah, first first draft pick. What do you think he should be he's 275. I think right now I mean, I'll tell you right now if you moved him to 290 men's I'd be here for it But I I could I could I could go 300 and you wouldn't hear me complain if the stegadon chief Is 300 points if that's 300 points With the amount of impact that model can have on the game Okay, if I'm baselining off of something else in that book Then then then he's 300 points. I will take your questions But like the the the reality is Uh, this feels very much like the first round of changes to the monster part of the book to me And we need to go farther like we need to go farther like the stegadon chief still being 300 points is a joke Right Just stuff like that The sores old blood guy on foot at 130 like he went down five He just got his like points adjustment his five-point rounding is like come on Come on Sure that hero is not 130 point hero on foot, especially not in this economy I get out of here with that. Okay Um Happiest change for me though was source warriors source warriors going down to 180 which is minus 20 points on them I like that a lot Like I'm I'm good. I'm good with that that change. I feel like that's Actually one where they nailed it. I think 180 points is the correct points for that unit Yeah, see like that's what I'm talking about. We've lot again. We've got lost galley vets So now if you want that too, it's rage you're gonna have to take the spears and you're gonna have to suffer The fort is hit right they they got out ahead of that I don't know if that's that may not have been the reason but the result is they got ahead of it So that that's what I would like to see with a lot of these other units But yeah, yeah, I think things like the kroyger still need to go down All right, right like at because effectively they're only going down really really 10 points when you counter in the five-point rounding being the thing, right? but Like the kroyger themselves at 160 and the kroyger war spawned at 170 still too much still way too much for what that unit does So Um, yeah, I mean the monster stuff is just still way off. That's what it comes down to Hmm Yeah, they're gonna I mean I'll be curious to play against the the kroyger Got me saying the the crocsigore Join us in the kroyger world, Tyler The new coherency as well as the okay, so i'm sold on agridons marcella. Have you played against agridons agridon lancers? I'm actually I haven't seen a lot of seraphon or my local meta or like tournaments. I've been to surprising I mean so right when that book came out in that war scroll people were looking at that war scroll It's like, ah, you know, it's kind of weird units They're supposed to be an anvil but they're not gonna survive long enough as an anvil and this Rule that they have is weird and how I get all that but actually playing them I only played three of them and they felt awesome and that was before the the point adjustment now Awesome because of the the layers of buffs that you can potentially get off on them, right? Like you got to line the dominoes, but a unit of six with all the dominoes that you can line up with this book Cut a turning off. I mean I had a breakdown of what I did in the in the one play test game like turning off wards Plus one attack plus one to hit All these things that I can go off on a unit I I could really I could see some real play with like six crocs gore six agridons And then especially the agridons making comeback. So yeah a big fan of these point adjustments I think especially this is going to help co-west a lot Yeah, which is which is the site of the book. We all know needs help. So good. Yeah, yeah, okay All right, uh, well tyler, I think we're going over to you for a couple a couple of things here Yeah, we got storm cast followed by sylvaneth. So why don't you start on storm cast buddy? You you go. What do you think of this? Yeah, uh, really good work overall with storm cast here. They needed it. They were bottom feeders And uh, yeah, this this generally reflects what I've been saying for a little while, Vince This idea that I had felt with a lot of these newer battle tomes We had established a new baseline that was different than the prior baseline And okay, so now we're making some adjustments to better Bring those in alignment, you know, I think like some of these heroes and k.o Going up reflects that and some of these units in storm cast going down reflects that So, yeah, excellent work overall The let's see to go through a few things As far as winners, I mean the night relic tour at a hundred points is really interesting That's a real sacrifice and list if you're running him as a general Which you would want to because of the high priest to get the three up re-roll I think often a lot of storm cast lists are going to be running a Andy an antorian general with spellcasting savants as your grand strat because you've got prey doors, right? You've got lord arcana on grift charger. He's a big winner this season You've got the new lookouts are rolled help protect you from missile attacks But yeah, that's that's interesting as a cost savings Keep dropping indrasta. I still I love her, but I can't stand her Yeah That's I was going to talk about or I'm glad you mentioned her like good correct direction 260 still not getting there folks still not getting there Sad man sad So let's see what else the good changes on the annihilators Wester soul sworn I think are a sleeper now We're probably not seeing a whole lot of them because it's you got a shell out whatever 150 200 bucks to get them right now or split a box of war cry with somebody I tried out that unit. That's a great unit in my mind It fills a roll that nobody else doesn't storm cast right now. So they count as three models Per model so up to 18 models on an objective wholly outside of your territory That's awesome in a in a lean army with a body count issue and they hit pretty hard That's 19 attacks three threes minus one two damage Whore frost obviously is the bounty hunters of the season every time, you know insert whore frost for units To buff them up minus two render minus three rend I think that's a really interesting unit, especially now at the point drop Vanguard hunters are amazing. They they went down. I went through all of the battle plans There are a number of battle plans that you can Contest just being wholly within six of a board edge So you don't have to do, you know, you have to be special like tree reps or something with Freedom you can you can do the whole within six Yeah, great great changes and people need to play vigilors more. They are outstanding I'm glad we finally got there because when we originally done when we when we had originally Worked our way through storm cast You we all talked about how vigilors seem like such a cool idea and we liked them But they were just too high right? I think the general consensus amongst all of us was like Because they were what 200 190 on print something like that. They were 180 I think they were higher than that Were they hired? I really think they were 190 or 195 or something insane. I think you're no, I think you're right I think they were 190. Yeah, and and we looked at them. Hey, this is actually a cool unit doing something cool in the army This is way too many points for what this is man. It's wild like this can't be correct And and I'm glad we're finally getting down to the correct point number So yeah A not correct point number Vince been trail and if you had anything to do with this, I'm gonna hurt you I feel like you have by proxy Because you have been on this shtick that judicators with regular bows are fine Are it's fine at 200 points and look, you know something's missing Thank you. They're not fine. It's not fine everybody What what have judicators with regular bows done to people at the studio? For the love of god First off drop them below the bolt storm which had been the most math efficient shooting in that entire battle tome One of the joles. I can't remember which one would tell you that and a lot of other mergonc would tell you that What are we doing? Start it. Let's let's go 180. Let's get let's get ambitious Yeah, because they can So I compare them to the bow snakes which are 180 and they can double shoot every turn until marathi dies Right, but these guys can't double shoot if they're reinforced anymore When they could maybe that one time they were worth 200 or 190 maybe but now they I think they should go down Yeah, what do you think 180 140? 120 That's that's wild I'll support a move to 190. I got your back on this. It's fine. Oh my god We'll get you 165 165. Yeah, I'll take that. I'll take that Uh, I want to leave storm cast behind and remove on to silvaneth but I just want to say one more thing when Karzai and krandis dropped like 50 points in the last You know last update or whatever right you remember because they were at 600 and they went down like 550 each And I said good start not far enough and I like it when I'm correct Because these guys they're still not worth 5 30 and 5 20, but we're still going the right direction The number of people is 500 That is the number it is 500. I know I know a certain union member in the northeast Oh, yeah, gotta gotta podcast to kick some ass with Karzai. Yeah, tough guy. Yeah, Karzai never die. Karzai never died Look, I uh, I ran him last year at NashCon. Okay at 600 and he was he did work for me. It's fine 500 is the number. That's the correct number for that monster I'll go behind that because things without ward saves die I don't know how else to say it. That's it. It's that simple Hello, Gartis. You got a point drop. That's that's a word save. Hi Pradoors. That's a word save Yeah, sure. Sure. You're gonna fall around your dragon with those foot here with those foot dudes. No, stop it. Absolutely Yeah, it's easy translocate Marcella knows this you translocate the base is more than six inches You put them just out at nine inches and they're within three inches. It's math. It's not lying. That's how that works. So easy Okay, move on to Sylvaneth All right I've been talking a lot Marcella. You got any takes on Sylvaneth before a bladder on for another five minutes Um You seem you seem good Lady of Vines going down a lot. I like because I really like that model and she does a lot of really good stuff So I hope to see her more often But we're probably just see the war song in every list in many lists Yeah, you know, I've I I don't know I feel like Sylvaneth flares I would like to see more Sylvaneth flares use the war song aggressively rather than just having him sitting in a woods On the other side of the board in a corner. Yeah, which I mean you have an even more incentive now To do that with spellcasting sabon because he's the perfect right choice as your general Was spellcasting sabon to just keep your antorian locus wizard alive for the entire game cool But yeah, like war singer use them a little more aggressively I feel like he can be an interesting support piece used aggressively. I I never see it. I'd like to see it more the Obviously and they we didn't talk about it that they changed the metamorphosis spell and laryl The unleash sprites and branch witch and unleash one of the sprites on the war song to make it unmodified role Good change. We've already we've already seen what can happen on season wars one of their battle reports last week Uh, we don't need that in our lives So, yeah, good change Yes, cernoth swords coming down excellent again getting the six. That's great Uh, you still have the issue that you can run into with reach, right? Like you're still gonna have times where the like I played a 7th guy over the weekend And he can only get two of the sort two of the six swords into me because he doesn't have the room to wrap me with a six sword So in that instance, right? You could have four sides hitting me with minus three runs So there's there's still something the coherency change is helping them, right? Which is good But but yes, you're right. You will still like one inch reach is still one inch reach coherency change is good But it will still come into play sometimes that just because of the the oddities of battle They will they will you and I could be able to get as many in that being said I was very happy to see that point drop on great swords And I agree with with marcella completely the the lady of vines Such a fantastic model such an interesting utility piece in the army Horribly under underused because of her points cost very happy to see this big this big movement down This was one of the absolute wins of the entire battle scroll to me was seeing her move 40 points Yeah A lesson on all this having played against derthu. So a lot of people like to choose derthu as their big hammer Obviously he's that's always been the case And I get it. He's terrifying to play against. He's frustrating to probably play with In part because often you have to rely on the root goal bird. Can you Jump, you know jump up and down in this way. Can you clap your hands in this way? Can you do everything you need to do to get derthu actually delivered where he needs to go to then Try to blow up something and strike and fade that's going to be more difficult in this season Because people are just going to be shutting down sprites form hive And we'll see what happens with the battlemage with the plus three on wildform spell that may just go away With the new city of the sigmar book So your right precious pluses to charge may not be there If I were playing sylvanath personally, I would be looking at the spider lancers as maybe my number one hammer Go to in this army. They've got the mobility. They've gone on gone down in points. You can buff them well They they benefit from the coherency change. I think you can regenerate them What's the rate replenish them with in a couple of ways revenant seekers and support versus harmony spell? Yeah, I think that's a really interesting unit that should get more play Yeah, is that the one with six inch pylon or is that the other build? That's the tree remnants. I believe I don't think maybe the revenant seekers and maybe somebody correct me I don't know if those units have a six inch pile. I know the tree One of the bugs did Yeah, they might yeah Yeah, and I just might not be remembering haven't played sylvanath in a while personally But yeah, so good changes overall. Nice to see the spider remnants go down. They're an interesting whorefrost option Yes, they can pile in six inches when they make a pylon move instead of okay, perfect. Nice So, yeah, that's great Okay, uh The storm keeps that we will be holding a solemn funeral for the battle mage when the time comes Haven't soon enough, but don't worry. He'll be a he's already been replaced by knighted cantor By and cantor. Sorry. Yeah, who've who've shown up to uh To replace the the aging battle mages The the battle mage dies and then a lightning strike comes down in its place. It's like I am reborn Auto dispelling All right, I've got a bone to pick with those guys guys You need to talk more about like I get it your job is talking about the a tier But let's give some more love to the vandals hammer hands the celestine primes the questor souls war There are a lot of units. I would wish they would talk more about on their show. All right, bone pick over Beast of chaos, uh, little little, uh Not really actually much movement here Most of it as actually upward movement But it doesn't look like it, but most of it was just the five point adjustments, right? So chimera be slurred shaggoth Uh the zangorn and light and all these things are just little five pointer movements The only thing that actually went down was dragon ogres In a tangible way and then not much moving up right your your uh your cast spawn went up 15 Sure deserved given what we've seen out of them the cockatrice went up 15 I've got an idea. Don't move the cockatrice up 15. Just fix a stupid rule That seems like a better solution because this rule is stupid and shouldn't Shouldn't exist so It seems like a good solution and then on Gore Raiders, uh, quite deservedly moving up just because they Shockingly uh are a powerhouse or perhaps not shockingly if you read the book. So Yeah Marcel do you know much about beast chaos? I don't I don't I played against them Yeah, uh many times the the cockatrice Hitting only like making you hit only on sixes is terrible. I wish they would bring I think it was mortal wounds that it did before. Yeah, just bring just let it shoot mortal wounds. It was fine It was fine Why? Go ahead Marcel. I'm sorry. Oh, sorry. I was gonna say like one hit My maw pressure wants and only hitting on sixes. I'm like, okay, cool. My my 500 point thing is 400 points. Yeah, that's great. Yeah yep so I was a little surprised. I don't know much about this army. So it could be a lot I was surprised to not see skyfires on this list Or best of gores on this list Maybe are we seeing many gores? I mean, I remember with the book it seemed like gores were not too bad Maybe not too expensive and they they would hit the table But uh zang gores, I don't feel like I've been seeing a lot as it seemed like a number of the the basic units I was a little surprised we're not on this list But I could be wrong I don't have any thoughts on that. I think we want to be I I think that that they're probably not wrong to be a little conservative right now Um to see how some of the changes shake out here and how they fair in the new season and stuff like that I think you're gonna see here my my Vince stares into his crystal ball one is you're gonna actually see another mixed Thing the next battle scroll on them. Does that make sense? Like you're gonna see more points up and more points down that they'll end up being one of the ones with a lot of like Christmas colors In there and their thing next go round as well, right? Yeah, yeah Yeah, like the dragon ogres. I mean that unit seemed like it was in a tough spot Not great at least my experience against the new dragon ogres with the new beast of chaos book I'm not sure that's getting the job done 210 only 15 points off at least with what I was filling with that unit personally Uh dragon over shag off Timeler I think like again only five points. Yeah, this one just felt weird to me personally But like that I don't have a lot of experience with these chaos Yep All right, let's talk corn the blah days of corn um so Well went down Well, two of the blood thirsters had some big points moves down and that's the correct two blood thirsters that needed to come down I support this A lot of the bad heroes went down So fine. They all went down 10 points. They're all cheapest chips Uh, and then a lot of your Uh quality stuff that like was sort of the hidden sneaky things Like garrix reavers and magor's fiends Both went up a pretty sizable chunk on their on their points and uh, I support this. I'm sure gareth has had As he loved abusing both of these units both these underworlds of war bands Uh, but uh, but yeah, I mean overall this doesn't feel like Huge stuff. Maybe the maybe the blood thirsters is a decent move, but again on their on their point space It's not a percentage move. It's not huge um, it's well in line so Okay Yeah, so good Yeah, this is one. I mean there was some chatter about blood warriors going up at 190 But again, they drop storm cast they drop some other things. They're getting impacted by glacial veterans So maybe it'll be okay. Like you didn't need to increase them with the galley best change Yeah, I mean maybe I like they're one of those units. It's so tough for me to read Because here's the thing. Are they probably should they probably go up 10 points? Yeah, probably probably at least done. Yeah, right But like if we don't do that does it actually materially matter To the army that corn is putting on the table and what's functioning Yeah, probably not. You know what I mean? Like I don't Like is it's the difference between is that the correct points value and is it a material meaningful change? Right for for what the armies they're getting played and and I'm not sure the answer is yes. I like if you asked me what I support them going up 10 points Yeah, 100 I would Right. I just don't know that it actually does anything other than make me like feel better Sure Right, like yeah, hopefully we'll not see bricks of 30, you know, we weren't seeing a ton of that But you were seeing a little bit of that over the last season since the book came out I mean like I said, there's a clear incentive to not do that now, which is galley vets has gone Sure, but so yeah But yeah, pretty good on the whole with this one skull crushers good to see I mean feel like six is going to be popular Six stretched out Absolutely. Yeah, I mean again felt like we're ahead of that in the right way Maybe they maybe they deserved another 10 points on top of that. I don't know There's some armies those are pretty hard to deal with and there's some armies where they just roll over flat and die So it's really hard for me to actually evaluate that unit. It's a classic like Marmite unit where half of its matchups are really really strong and half of its matchups are just Horrendous, right? You end up just overpaying through the through the nose for them. So yeah Yeah tough Marcella, what do you think about the disciples of zinch changes overall here? I feel like You know zinch should be really good into the new meta, but I I see a lot of point drops so I don't know if I'm missing something or Or maybe these units just weren't very good But I mean the lord of change going down in a magic meta seems wild to me, but Especially as we uh, we got the clarification for sure that we'll talk about it when we do the FAQs here in a minute But that uh, your mastery of magic I gotta remember which the name of it is that flips the die isn't a modification So like right and still primal dice on top of that Wild Yeah, it's it's Surprising I mean the chicken is strong in the current season This one is strange to me the flamer thing. I understand I'll say that Yeah, the the flamer thing the jade obelisk the changeling. I I still don't like the changeling I know Caleb's in the chat Um, Caleb, can you defend the changeling to me? Is there any value of this guy? Because I can't figure him out Uh, but you can tell me if I'm wrong Caleb. You're you're much you are a far advanced beyond me zinch player The lord of change one is a bit unusual Just because of the season like it's one of those things where if you ask me objectively, this is the correct points move like independent of the current season Uh Like if if we if we weren't entering a magic season if we still last season I'd be like, yeah 380 that's feels right Okay It's only the current season that's that's moving that needle for me And that's weird You know what I mean? It's weird to have to like constantly shift people's points around just because of the season by 10 or 20 points Yeah Yeah, I I like these changes for the most part Playing against flamers because they just didn't quite get there previously So yeah, I think these are appropriate drops and was probably very very much reflecting the data They were not seeing a lot of play particularly the flamers. Yep. What a world we've come from Do we do you remember the beginning of 2020 tyler marcella when flavor spam? Yep. Yep. Just like whoosh and your armies melted. There are 72 wounds there but basically dealing on average at the start of the game like what a great time that was Ah history Okay I'll take the next two. I'm ready. I'm ready coach. Put me in here we go Okay He knights of slanesh. What's relevant here? I mean we got it. There's so first of all, there's quite a bit of like five point Movement in the list. So we're just gonna we're just gonna pretend all that doesn't exist Right and talk about that material changes Uh and Things that went up So bliss barb seekers and bliss barb archers both went up. I don't think bliss barb archers went up enough I'm gonna be honest with you. Yeah 10 Judicators 190 years are also perfectly fine. Yeah, absolutely. Look, man I just said they didn't go up enough. Don't make me reverse my position and be like, no, they should be 150 And judicators are 210. What should what should they be? Should they be 180? 180. Okay, excellent Yep, like And and by the way a bunch of other things well first of all what should should be done is the book should Be rewritten from the ground up and everything thrown in the trash and start over Okay, so that's number one But assuming we're not doing that The things out of here that are meaningful to me In any way Is we're trying to do something with the blade bringers on chariots I still don't think it's enough Uh, I just think those units don't get there. I don't think we've moved the bliss barbs up enough Uh, the contorted epitome going up is like Unusual in this current season as its special ability is a complete non-bow with the The the season reroll cast Uh, yeah, it rerolls casts. Correct. It rolls casts. Yeah I mean It's fine. I played against it the other day. It's a good piece. It is a good piece. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I'm like It's a nice piece. It's a nice Uh locus. You don't have to use the reroll obviously. It's you know, it has a it has a really excellent mortal wound protection I'm not sure it needed to go up. I'm not sure it matters. It's in the end. It's a single thing. Who cares Um senessa going down 30 is a big move Somebody in the chat was paper boy jay is excited for senessa. I do agree with that Senessa's cool. She's unique so she's not a locus, but she has nine wounds So she benefits from the new lookouts are which is nice Uh, and she's the good one like obviously Dex ssa going down 30 means nothing It's it's the tale of two heroes right the tale of nine or ten wounds Right. Um dex ssa could go down another 30 points and I still wouldn't give a hot crap Like she's she's just a garbage hero. She's a fragile melee hero that that doesn't do enough Whereas senessa is like a good magic ranged hero that that can actually have a function Um It was interesting. I didn't even realize so I played against both of them Saturday I didn't realize they were monsters So that was certainly the number one thing that was particularly relevant each time is Getting roards counting as five models that just kept coming up with an elite army And then yes, nessa's I did not appreciate getting hits with six mortal wounds to the face because I felt my three up save When I got unleashed held upon with vandals and then he just stopped vandals to kill him outright Yep, so that was fun. I took eight mortal wounds. Yeah, I think senessa hasn't been an underrated piece for a long time She usually shows up in a lot of my armies That I build because I build melee oriented. It's the nush armies not Not bull crap shooting armies for an army that shouldn't be a shooting army, but it's somehow Like whatever. I don't want to start. Um And then most the other moves are like pretty irrelevant Uh in in my estimation Um, so like late seekers going up 10 was unnecessary. Yes, they're a decent unit They they're fine 200 like for what they are. They didn't need to be 210 Um, I'm fine with the bliss barb seekers going up again I'd like to see the shooting cost like the cost of shooting in this army actually increased and the cost of melee decreased Because right now it's just way out of whack It's just way out of whack. Yeah Yeah D minutes should be what 100 100 They're they're they're they're a fine summon I mean, I've I've I've tried multiple times to run the like pack of 30 in a list or to use like, you know like MSU 10s and Different configurations and I mean they all just die They all just die right They're a perfectly fine summon if you just need bodies, but that's basically what they exist for so Yeah Yeah, right on I got us. Okay my experience. I know you're this channel is very much on the train of Turned-down sensation dice always always. Yes. Every always you always turn out you always deny but but I Got the I I took the most damage. I'll be nice. I'll take the most bad damage from accepting Or from taking the d3 mortal wins. Yeah, that's what's gonna happen. You're gonna take some damage, but you can win If you give them the temptation you'll lose I think it's more about the nuance select selectively choosing when and when and where to accept Yes, the select is if that the person is going to die or if the unit's going to become irrelevant through taking the d3 mortal wins That's when you yeah Yeah, I Anyway, it was a lot It was a lot of mortal wounds Some wound armies I hear you. I understand. It was I hate the rule. It's worse if you take it Okay When you skyrocket them to an army-wide five up and sixes are mortals and they're negative Yeah, that's one hit like you just stop killing them That's what happens when an entire army when they become nerdle, but better sure Okay Because we know our sixes to hit just do straight mortals yours does some funky secondary process Right. You've got a five up board. We've got a five up board You've got sixes potentially do mortals. We've got sixes do mortals You've got no negative to hit. We've got neg one to hit great victory Right, like it's it is literally the borat meme. Okay, and like the faster you put them into that position Uh, the the harder the army is going to be Yeah So like every every game I've played where people have ramped me up to 36 Or higher where I can start summoning and stay at 36 Yeah, right. That's just a nightmare. Like I win those. I've won those games just out of hand Not even hard Right. Every time somebody's just taking the wounds It becomes an incredibly difficult game Well, my tldr at least for my army in that situation was uh hit them hard Hit them hard as fast as possible, particularly obviously if you've got ranged outputs take out some archers And and then consider taking the temptation dice late in the game Yeah later in the game not necessarily early in the game. That that was kind of yeah, the tldr I want I was feeling in that game, but yeah Uh, horrible says it's a far cry from the worst allegiance ability in the game Which is what ben said it wasn't on this the next show Nope stand behind it. It is the worst allegiance ability in the game. I have not moved at all I stand behind this as the worst mechanic It is so annoying the the inter the interruption that that's the thing that just gets me the constant interruption It's like but it's least enjoyable when you're when you've got a good friend who loves it Like they it is the risk of study or smothering tithe Of this game that's going to only land for magic players, but that's what it is Okay All right Skaven all good stuff. I like seeing all this green a plus Good work Like I don't know that any of this really really super duper matters, but there are things I'm still happy to see on this list um So and yes, it's definitely worse than cruel voice because I'm not just I'm not just evaluating it on power I'm evaluating it on it's I'm evaluating it on its impact on the game in a negative light Okay, we're not evaluating power here only it's a very like Uh myopic view of allegiance abilities like allegiance abilities If you had like a really really super powerful allegiance ability But it's utter crap and ruins the game to play with it like I would argue this does Uh, that's bad. That's worse That's much worse Than just a bad underpowered allegiance ability Mm-hmm. Okay Uh, all right Okay, so what's good here? I like storm vermin down 10 I like it a lot actually. I think storm vermin are pretty interesting Doom wheel should at 140. We're starting to get interesting. I'm sniffing around interesting. We're getting there We're we're getting there like we're we're starting to get get me to 130 and where we can start talking There's a really good Skaven player. I'm forgetting the fellow's first night. He ran doom wills at bug eater and went 50 Great player. He used them really well. I was hearing some folks who played against him. God, I can't remember his first name But yeah, I think just with intelligent use there there's ways you can get a lot of a lot out of doom wills Yeah, what if we make them battle line? I've Let's do it. Now you're speaking my language. Okay Keegan, I think that's his first name keegan graves. I believe nice Uh death master down 10 is shocking and great. Um, like he's actually a very good piece and a very interesting unit The all the all the uh vermin lords going down significant chunks on their point space basically all down, you know, roughly 10 ish percent Let's call it for simplicity. Um, it's good because they're overpriced bad monsters Um, who aren't going to play very well in the current season. Yep Devon just shouted out in the chat. It was it is keegan. There you go Awesome, uh And then let's talk about the the elephant in the room Gracier on screaming bell down 40 points to 240 Well, it is this piece of crap unit actually playable now answer. No No, it's still bad The real question you're asking is it worth an extra 120 points for the protection of your gracier? That's what you're asking Okay, my answer no Because I'd rather have the gracier on foot. Who's in who's uh, who's an andy in the current season and a great andy at that Like gracier on foot is again top tier andy action okay Gracier on screaming bell is bad with a bad Uh unique ability to ring the bell that doesn't do anything And also turns into a priest just randomly for no reason that doesn't do anything Like how utterly pointless Um, no that scroll is not worth it at 240. I will go I will go do one better. It's not worth it at 200 Especially not in the current season um I don't know enough about it. I never see it and it's extremely likely to just end up being stuck somewhere in the middle of the board because his his Because his because archeriates don't drive themselves around like some peoples Yeah, there you go. There's my there's my scape like good good moves very happy with the vermin lord thing and stuff like the doom wheel and the death master That's all that's all positive in the storm vermin. So a lot of good changes. I'm excited to roll out my scaven I've been playing a lot of scaven too recently and uh really just having a fun time with them I still like the book even though it's a 2.75 book and not a 3.0 book. I still think there's a lot of fun in there to be had It's still one of the most fun books to build armies with okay, cool Yeah, every time I play against scaven. I feel like I probably should be a rap player with how that army actually plays It's so tricksy and johnny that army such a johnny army, dude It's shocking. I like it as much as I do because johnny's really not my profile But it's such a like johnny timmy army. Um, yeah, it's really a fascinating book Um, yeah, thematically. All right, cool Who wants to take who wants to take s2d marcella? Let's let's go back to you here What do you think about s2d overall? I mean a lot of movement some of it quite material um, you know, yeah, I They are really good changes to To balance the game the the most surprising thing for me was furies going down in points Because I think it's really good You know, there's two wounds each They have a lot of movement shenanigans that you could really exploit To score a lot of points and and get battle tactics and stuff like that block Your opponent from getting tactics or block your opponent from where they want to go Or what they want to do and and them going down in points is great I want to see a fury spam list again in this meta You heard it sean if you're still in the chat, let's let's see it sean seyer fury spam Yeah So this is interesting to me Vents we were very high on this book when it came out a lot of people very high on this book when it came out still and yet Yeah, it's just I think Intriguing how many adjustments have needed to be made with this battle tone. There were Yeah, a lot of things that were misses at the at the values that they started with So not I guess I mean you could separate that in terms of like that's just one element in terms of assessing the quality of the battle tone Right, but yeah, there there were a lot of things that need to get adjusted that have gotten adjusted The demon prince continues to be one of the saddest things in this entire game Uh, he's now at 150 with that beautiful model. Uh, I'm personally intrigued by the historic lord on many core I know it's not an andy But I really like that that model or what that model can do in cabalist. I think it's an interesting piece And uh, what else is going on here? Arternus seems pretty cheap now 180 going down 30 points. That's nice as part of it. There's a lot of play I played against him lesion of the first prince list with some good players There's quite a bit of play there. I would love to see more of more of legion Then just cabalist and whatever nights Uh, yeah Should casnights what are casnights right now 230 to 240 maybe they should have gone down a little bit more Uh casnights I think what they are they're not that much 220 probably Yeah, I'm always still disappointed by casnights Uh, whenever I play against them They just yeah But warriors going down that makes sense Yeah, I don't know anything else said out to you guys. I mean I hear about the demon prince going down another 20 points Is is just like the most comical admission of surrender. I've ever seen Exactly, uh, like they are just bad. It's so funny. We talk we we spent like We spent half of the the s2d show basically by by volume Talking about how bad the demon prince is and people tried to defend it at that point's cost And I was like this thing is a trash unit at a trash value It's down Basically 50 points from where it was and it's you know, still like okay at best Yeah, I think the only reason to buy one is to get maybe I think there's a grandstrat Where you turn your dude into a demon prince Sure Do you get an 11 and then yeah, that's the only reason to buy one. You nailed it Absolutely Yeah, the last game against place of darkness my punter did that round one. Yeah, that Oh, cool. You got a demon prince. Nice. Okay Beautiful Yeah, you got you got to have one in your collection just for the occasional ascendancy. Yes, all right. Yes Yeah, because we're anyway, you yeah, you can really really make that happen I think that's a that's a great grand strategy for them right now I do want to give a shout out as always bellicor. He always finds the way to be amazing He's going to be I think outstanding this season So I played against bellicor once so far the new season There are multiple battle tactics that this man can just flat out stop at the at the drop of a hat multiple like The bait and trap The surrounded destroy I think I got up to four out of the list of eight that he can just say nope You're not going to do that with his shedding a unit down. So Yeah, he dropped in points. He's he's still excellent in terms of marginal plays for for winning games And uh, theridans went down 10. They're 160 now Arcella, does that interest you at all theridans? 160 that was one of those Those borderline. I've never seen them impressed. They just I don't know yet. I don't I don't think any of my poems. I played them Okay, yeah I ran a six pack somewhat recently and that was under old coherency And I was pretty impressed by him I think with the combination of new coherency and their points, I think they're worth exploring again Okay Yeah, it'd be nice to see them. Yeah get there The legionnaires going down 20 that that could be meaningful They they were a little too high relative to the other options. I think so Yeah, again a bellicor or and or eternist list Yeah, you might see a little bit more play with legionnaires. That's nice to see Sure But yeah And let's close out chaos tyler talk to us about uh, magikin of nergal Yeah, so you see what I was saying here, right where not a lot of somebody here was taking up all the space All the real estate on this one page that we had to So I've I've got a second column of drones, nerglings, festus, morbidex, poxbringer, robbringer, sorcerer, spoilpox That probably could have seen some point drops as well Um, a lot of this army needed point drops. Some of it got a little bit Curious the glockin at 600 Maybe I'd like to try that out. I don't think the great and clean one is it's going to make much of a difference at 30 points dropping I think it needed more. It's got some inherent challenges even more. So I think this season Uh, robber creed going up a little bit is nice for a um For a balance standpoint for my internal balance standpoint Uh, some of these are reasonable plague bears going down 20. Yep. They needed that the The big standout though that makes absolutely no sense is plus gold blightlords going down while future blightkings staying perfectly fine apparently at 250 I have no idea that that might be one of the weirdest things that I saw in this entire battle scroll That those two adjustments or or you know one adjustment a lack of adjustment with blightlings Can you make any case for blightking staying at 250? I mean, yeah, whorefrost going off on them if you can get it off. That's interesting, but My god I I really don't get that I I mean No No, I've played I've played a lot of blightkings. Yeah, I mean, I like they in certain situations They can overperform against blightlords in certain contexts But in general this season is going to put a higher premium mobility and mobility is most critical thing With aos in general it always has been right. So and you have a slow Yeah, that's why like Emma and everybody plays plays blightlords. Like it's just it's obvious So, yeah, I doubt that that's a huge mess for me. The There should have been more differentiation. Oh, actually morbidex did go down. I'm sorry. I missed that So that's good. You got a little bit different differentiation now between morbidex or gods and Blow up going up 10. That's fine. He's he's really good Uh, but yeah, I haven't thought about nergal at all yet season. I just needed a break after a year and a half. Sure Uh, I suspect they're gonna have a hard time, but other than blightlord spam It's just I think these battle tactics are going to be difficult. Uh, the Great mobility requirements are going to be difficult maybe the The rotbringer coven will get there with the extra casting again. Emma was playing that last season I think at one point or yeah Adept gone 20 22. Yeah 2022 and that's what it was. Yeah, so maybe that gets there and that's interesting Uh, but yeah, I'd love to hear if anybody else has any other thoughts on nergal I just haven't been thinking about them a lot this year, but I don't see a lot that gets me excited here I think it's all positive. Like I agree with yeah, Matthew Barker who said like, you know Glock can drop 50 points twice and he's finally where he should have been or he should have started or something, right? I don't agree with that conceptually like he was so like we were way overvaluing that that anti-charge ability and we we've handled that clearly to a lot of other people and Not at that kind of a premium points cost. It was the He had the first mover penalty, right the first time right a rule that sort of wild was happening and now it's like Just give it out like candy. So yeah, yeah Okay Yeah, let's uh, let's talk death and destruction We got it all wrapped up on one thing here. Let's close out the points Uh flesh-eater courts Okay, sure terror guys zombie dragon. They're both trash. They're still trash 30 points down makes them still trash fine Uh, like the the unmounted guys specifically just the monster alone And then negash going down 65 as he will throughout all of these armies Um, I think flesh-eater courts are in a very very very strong position with their new scrolls we didn't talk about it on the show, but um They're in a strong place I think flesh-eaters are gonna be something to are gonna be a force to be reckoned with and obviously see what happens Do we have the classic? powerhouse up until your new book situation that's happened with flesh-eaters actually multiple times I'm hearing hearing about some strong list. So yeah, yep Mike Fine with these point changes. It doesn't matter. I think they'll be good Okay yeah Marcella I'm coming over to you here for this one night hunt. What what's your what's your opinion here on the uh on the spoopy ghosts? You think these are I mean, obviously they needed some help Yeah, I like done things here I I think that negash going down because I've seen a lot of really good night hot negash lists Where they just like keep coming back like with his ability and his mother abilities and just keep bringing models back So I think that'll open up more room, especially with a couple of these these point drops to have like more bodies in the list, especially if you have negash in there Uh, and it should bring the power level of the army up a little bit I think these are meaningful changes overall Yeah, okay. I am very interested to see if we start seeing a lot of night hot negash lists I agree with you. That's that's going to be an interesting journey I don't know for sure because he's still such a cost But Maybe maybe I'll say this opens the door Uh, I was happy to see the black coach continue to drop like just keep going Just keep going We'll get there um Yeah, what else anything catch your eye in this list there title? uh a one of my friends his brother was Putting together a list with maybe others have done this. I hadn't ever heard it before The concept I think is craven throne guard plus black coaches is a craven throne guard as a way of helping to try to turn on The black coach in the shooting phase if you can write like run them as a power pair and you do enough damage that you can trigger The what 3d3 mortal wounds from the black coach? I thought that's kind of interesting like a big unit of 15 or a couple tenors a couple of black coaches Something like that. Maybe a play I I didn't I never heard of it. Maybe it maybe some others have been doing that Yeah, they needed a pointer up on a lot of things and they've got it So hopefully this helps them out The I already made the point about blade guys revenants. I think they should have come down Yep Yeah, they should be if grim gas 150 put blade guys 160. Let's see how that feels Um, but yeah, that's that's the big miss here in my mind But yeah, hopefully this will be meaningful. I don't know if it'll get them there I mean, uh, there obviously are really good players who do really well starting with a certain trinchonelli Uh, but yeah We'll see we'll see do you both the trinchonelli's play this one or just Nate? I think just Nate Nate was playing the cross booze with the the coach. Let's say Oh, he was ever winner. Yeah Oh, he has like a whole bunch of cross booze. Oh, excellent. All right One or two, maybe two. Yeah, amazing. Amazing. That seems that seems really cool. Yeah He's a national treasure. Both of them are let me just say that It's true. Uh All right Uh, two two two brothers two men should not be able to have such immense talent at warhammer and be and be such exemplars of of uh Like generosity of spirit and darn handsome to look at it. It's just really Too many too many spoonfuls. We're we're we're heaped They check every box. It's a it's a it's an absolute travesty in my estimation uh, all right, so Oh Ozzy arc bone reapers obr Again, here. We've got a bit of a mix story where we've got some stuff going up some stuff That wasn't seen play going down probably very much the right answer on some of this Uh, my only question is is it enough? Uh, because some of these things are going to be really really strong into the new season Um, some of these things are going to be really really weak. Take that mortis and soul reaper Um, isn't that they got wait is that which one has the chair? Is that him I can never keep these guys names straight Who is the guy writing the chair? Yeah, the reaper is the one with the sign right? No, he's the whole diorama. I'm just like it's one of the mortisans I know somebody in the in the chat's gonna get it before I get there Uh name of guy on chair soul mason. Sorry soul mason. Um, yeah, sir not appearing in this list. Um Very funny because he doesn't get to benefit from the upgraded lookouts her because he's got a chair Ridiculous Which is weird because the sloth doesn't count as having a yeah, so so weird Yes, when is a chair a mount when it walks around on its own if it floats on its own Not a mount mounts have legs. That's what we've learned Okay That's the rule mounts have legs It's like what's a it's like a You know a hot dog and a taco are fundamentally the same thing, right? That's yeah, okay So, okay Yeah, see it's look you you talk about it. It's true. It's absolutely true Same food. All right But uh, you know like the the things like the the so yeah, sorry for sight guy the coolest looking big in the army, but bad Um, the harvester going down was appropriate given the changes absolutely correct given that the how much it was Sort of back to last time around Which is fine the archive and the more two more guests Going down. I'm happy to see that Because I want to see people actually play those at some point. It would be neat This is one of those units that would be in the running for most adjustments over the eight years of a os more guests Never been able to figure this unit out No And then the amortis guard going up again. Yes, correct Yes, yeah Yeah, we'll see how stalkers look like maybe but definitely the amortis guard had to go up Yeah, I think stalkers will go up next time. I really do Probably I really do Because I think I've rehearsed in this year. Wait, that's not what's called No, no, myriad. Thank you. Sorry. No, myriad is such a strong Strong selection of the current season like it's just why not? Yeah, I hope in the nature of the again a lot of these missions pulling them Stretching you out more than we did last season that that's going to help with the balance in the ecosystem with with oc art Because they are an elite army relatively small mall account forces you to run more ponies ponies are really good right now You want to run them anyway for battle tactics? So it might get a little more diversity than just hey Here's my stalkers my mortis guard and my heroes, which is what we had been seeing a lot Which yeah that kind of sucks so all fair Okay, let's talk about some soul blight grave lords spg Obviously one of the top armies in the meta A terror we've already seen the set of nerfs that happened earlier That through the fixing of the endless legions and the dead walker zombies I think we mentioned it earlier in the show but five points up on dead walker zombies is a joke That's a joke and a bad joke Coronation this is bad comedy. Uh like no farther more Yeah Uh things I was super happy about here Terror guys zombie dragon blood seeker pal and quinn all these things coming down like massively Massive points drops right like huge comparatively and probably still not far enough for how bad those monsters are Um, they're just terrible like It's the problem with the terror guys and the zombie dragon the mortis engine and the blood seeker pal and quinn especially Is that there's just no points cost where they make sense at their classic bad war scrolls bad scroll is bad There's no way you're gonna actually pay enough They're gonna have the right cost on it to make it useful where it isn't just doesn't just become an immediate problem Right, you like you put it down to like a hundred points and then people are over here just doing stupid things I think the mortis engine is worth a look I would agree with the others for the most part. My friend Linus is going to take great exception to everything you just said Uh, yeah, he's he's a big fan of some of this stuff. But anyway mortis engine. I've played against that a couple of times Yeah, that like that's fine. We can exempt the mortis engine from my list. Okay, fine Like whatever it's it's maybe passable. Like maybe there's a right points value for that I submit to you the terror guys zombie dragon and blood seeker pal and quinn scrolls are just bad and there's no saving them You just gotta throw them in the bin Uh, cw critter said five points up on zombies about 15 up on skeletons. What what what is this world we live in? And and I completely agree with you, you know, look cw you and I have had some of our have had uh Our differences in the past But I want to reach across the aisle to you here and say I fully agree. This is In this we are united. This is a travesty Bipartisan, it's right. This is we can we can find bipartisan agreement here Uh, thanks. I'm happy about nephrata going up Probably not enough vampire lord on zombie dragon going up good black knight's going up good You know, um And then torgillius going way up. Yes, correct. Also correct. I hate that. What was he doing? Okay Why is torgillius so good? You know, I know We're running behind but I was just I I marked that because I had no idea what this guy was done Yeah, well torgillius who was 125 points Okay So He has like a silly random shooting attack that does do two damage. So good for him Um, and he's a caster Okay, like he's a caster. He casts a spell. He's a one wound caster So far. He's a he's a you know, six wound hero with a six up save You look at that and you're like, all right. What I don't get events. That doesn't even sound like 125 points 110 100. Yeah, exactly. Why are we here? And then he gives us on the board. Correct. And then we get to the last ability Okay, trusted lieutenant. This is why he got taken Friendly vircos summonable units have a ward of five plus while they are wholly within 12 of this unit Oh All right. All right Virco zombies with a five up ward. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I know more Right. Yeah so Yeah, I would have I like the death rattle skeletons increase because If it had gone with an increase in the zombies, that's what makes it weird But uh, that to me is getting out ahead of Some players switching from zombie to skeleton skeletons are amazing. Like that's a really I stay around skeletons as being very good in this addition But it is nonsense to assume like to think that that's that's crazy to be 20 points off from zombies That is crazy. Exactly. Exactly. Yes So if if you had actually bumped up zombies what they should have been and you bumped up skeletons to 100 Perfect, but you got to do both. Yep. And yeah, but other than that Black knight's going up a little bit. Okay. Yeah Uh graveyard a little bit. Yeah, so we'll see. Yeah, still gonna be a strong army Uh cw said his soul blight list went from 2150 to 1970 pretty good then. Okay. All right. Good man. Nice Uh, all right. Or wait did that go the other way around? Probably the other way Did that go the other way around? I don't know. That's uh, I'm curious Uh, all right gloom swipe gets Marcella, what do you think of the the the gsg? Did we get them? Have we hit them hard enough here? Again, the other like top army Still in a good spot when they first came out I built my list and I had everything I wanted and the list was like 1700 points. So I think Now they're at appropriate points cost. Um, and they brought some of the rules in line With something that's appropriate. So I think they're still very good Uh, they didn't go overboard. I have like no huge problems with the the point changes All great Okay, boy, the steward mccown was on a bender this week on twitter. He he was not a Marcella No, mr. Iron mr. Iron guesman. Oh, yeah, he had some issues with these point increases He just seemed to think that they got to hit too hard I don't really see it personally because I had the same experience. I wrote some lists It's like, oh my god, you get everything and this army when that battle tone came out It's like I have I have no hard choices here. I'll just take everything And I he he he thought it was odd I remember him saying he thought it was weird that the tragots got hit I I can agree on the dank old chargots. I don't see why they went up. They seem fine to me but the rock guts I felt they needed to go up. I mean I get we were not seeing a lot of them Relatively to what we were seeing with the squigs because hey squigs uh, especially at worlds but I don't know if you guys have played against a an army of rock got chargots with some fell waters and some vehicle truck That's a really strong army It's a really strong army. You can't make it better. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah So, yeah, it it seemed yeah, it seemed like pretty good adjustments on the whole. What do you think, Vince? No, I agree with this in honesty I wonder if we could have went a little farther in just a few places is my honest answer like Even with the squig herd change. I think they're still really strong at 140 Um, I think they could have gone to 150 pretty easily and I would have been perfectly fine with that Um, like it's it's not hugely out of bounds, but there's I mean, this is still strong It's still strong. Now this will add up. We hit a lot of the key units here Right, like we're hitting the squig hoppers. We're hitting the squig herd Like this is all stuff that you're going to be stacking and you know, it's even though it says plus 10 points You know it manifests in a list is more than that, right? Like obviously with the squig It's actually plus 30 for every herd. So like this is this is meaningful I don't want to you know, understate it right but Uh, but I think Probably we're in for round two here. Eventually. That's my suspicion. That's my that's my that's my sneaky suspicion I was shocked to see grin crack the great go up 30 because I think that's actually a Sneaky great war scroll, but I had hardly ever seen it ran. No, I don't like I I can't think of you. I've never faced him And I got a regular gsd player It's an interesting war scroll. I mean, I couldn't spell it off hand, but I just remember looking at it Yeah, do you remember I don't do you remember what that thing did or have you Fight on death. Yeah, just fight on death. Yeah, and then um His little dudes in the war band can like go on a quest and get a Word if they do your quest but the the fight on death is really good because I think you can do it On your turn and their turn. So like if they go Um, you can just like fight on death like your screen unit or whatever. So when they die, they they still get to fight So there's a lot of utility in him Yeah, nice Yeah, and they're I mean stabbas or they went up five. Oh, yeah down five So, yeah, maybe we'll see more stabbas and shoot us. That's a really great unit Sure, but oh, yeah, and and yes, you're actually right. He can do it in both combat phases this fight on death Okay, wonder if hey woe is still in the chat. I saw him in here a little while ago. Hey woe if you're still around We got some ogre changes here Uh, basically the two stone horn units going up marginally and then everything else coming down Uh, okay Yeah Yeah, it it feels like a maatribes adjustment, which not a lot to write home about although the iron guts I that seems nice 30 points off of iron guts. Sure like that I haven't played against him a whole lot, but a couple of times Not not a bad unit Like they they can do some work The glutton's 20 off not bad Yeah, I don't know enough about this army but Doesn't look like they got a lot of adjustments. I feel like the thunder tusk beast riders down 10 is just like the most insulting change Oh, sure. Like that's Come on really and I mean if you're if you are so hey woe said Uh, mournfang not down as nuts feels like looking at stats on a bad but required battle Rather than curating also beast riders up 20 just to ruin my list And then dan linds said my list went up 70 and that's the point even though you seal on green You know if you're if you're a bcr player, right if you're running Monster trucks monster trucks you were going stone horns because uh thunder tusks are kind of trash And by kind of I mean most yeah, and by mostly I mean they are Uh, so, you know, you're not really seeing the benefit here Um, right. Yeah, if you're if you're running the the um You know just the fat boy side of this Uh, it's probably a pretty good day for you iron guts went down guns went down. Sure. Just like more stuff right Um, if you're running the bcr side of the house, I think this is a rough change I I really do and like I get it the frost lord on stone horns really good. Okay I'm not sure stone. Our beast riders are that good honestly Like they're a decent enough unit, but like I don't know that they deserved going up I don't understand sir Yeah, maybe this is a good example of what we're talking about earlier. Yeah, the lack of curation and just being data driven As as opposed to taking a holistic view on on a faction where it is Yeah, etc So, yeah, anyway, what'd be curious? Yeah, hey, will anybody else have got any more thoughts on this? Like I don't I don't know them well enough. So we have informed opinions but Hey, what we said guts changes are nice iron guts and glutton's were overpriced still are but much more playable. Yeah, okay Yeah, yeah, I mean that that feels like a lot 30 30 down on iron guts likes it. Yeah, they they seemed reasonably interesting when I played against them in the out the potential output Sure managers 20 points down still not enough. You just again bad war scroll is bad Okay Orc war clans Obviously most of this being highly directed at some particular part of the orc war clans Marcella you got any you got any opinions on on our on our cruel boys adjustments here and then also brutes downtown Uh, I think the the point changes for cruel boys Darn gonna help a lot. Uh the beast skewer kill boy down 20 is okay. I guess um The big change I saw on this list though the marsh crawler slogeth I feel like they took a point hit just for gets Because that's like where it was being used a lot is it was being used so often and gets now went up 20 where it was fine at where it was in points value for Uh, you know, like the rest of the orc war clans Uh Mega boss on maw crusher down 30. That's that's good. I don't know if that'll be like a big change to like the the maw crusher pigs list We will see the double mega boss come back more often Yeah, I think I the list that vents painted up Anthony poll Castro it was so it was six pigs 10 brutes two by five hard boys shaman gordrack and mega boss in maw crusher. It's like 10 points over So you gotta you can't run gordrack, but you can run the double. I think that fits with double cabbage I might be wrong. It was something like that. It was like it was almost there or it was just there with the double cabbage, but Yeah, I mean that's Yeah, mega boss is definitely way better than gordrack, especially now with the new points But I guess we have 450 460 Yeah, yeah, I was impressed. I played against gordrack. Yeah Have you ever ran gordrack? No, I played against them though. It didn't seem like he did a lot, but that was before the arcane tome changed So so maybe it's different now You should shoot him to death with 15 bow snakes where you just read like that Yeah All right, well there you go Uh, I do want to give a special shout out to gobsprac the mouth of mort going down 20 to 240 Uh, a guy who I think is actually really useful in the current season I don't know if you remember what gobsprac does, but he's a double castor and He has an interesting enough spell like it's fine He has a little bit of a ward of six up But he has the morc says no ability where each time this unit unbinds a spell The caster suffers d3 mortal wounds if the spell was unbound with an unbinding roll of 10 plus the caster suffers d6 mortal wounds instead That just says casting roll of 10 or with a roll of 10 plus not an unmodified roll So that one is still working with uh, PMD Uh, so like that's actually quite a scary punchback to your wizards Who try to cast spells and he you know him unbinding people is pretty deadly Yeah, like You cast a spell not only does he unbind your spell, but he cracks you for d6 mortals is like It's pretty good. It's pretty good in this season just saying it's pretty good It's not bad Uh, so him going down was actually a very surprising thing because I think he is so well aligned into the current season Um, even though he's even though he isn't actually like he's not an Andy or anything, right? Obviously because he's on the big bird so Um, I'm glad brutes went down 10 I still don't think you'll see a lot of brutes, but especially not with the coherency change Then also making six pigs back in the mix, but whatever. It's a nice change, I guess And the mall crusher deserves to come down and he's still gonna die a lot, but it's cool So it's fine This will still be one of those things where like Uh, he'll be an absolute he's an absolute terror To completely casual new players who don't know how to actually like set up a line And he's more or less worthless in high-end competitive play where he gets countered in 10 million ways. So All right, and then we'll end up I'm not going to talk about the mercenaries or the we'll talk about the endless spells in a minute So sons of behemoth everybody down cool, um You know, all right, depending on your list You may be able to fit in an extra singleton man crusher gargant, which is the equivalent of fitting in nothing Because that doesn't actually do anything But that's fine There there are changes that mattered have nothing basically to do with these points. These are all just make you feel good points It's still basically a four unit army. Maybe it's like four units featuring a singleton man crusher now but The relevant part here is that they got the change in the battalions and they got another change in the faq That we're going to talk about Uh, like right now Okay, let's leave points. I think you can't you can't you do Like three gatebreakers now or something like that. You'd you just not be able to do I guess I should actually look at the Yes, yes, you can't There there are there are Combinations that are now available that weren't available before I shouldn't understand that but the the trick was like Running three war stompers was actually usually the right way to go Right and and because are like just a bunch of war stompers because that ended up being cheap enough that you got to fit in extra stuff Right gotcha Wait getting an extra man crusher is nothing. Yes. Yes, because it's 12 wounds in melee on a five up save Like I just don't And a single man crusher just does not do enough damage on their new profile It just is nothing you charge into almost anything and it dies I was gonna make the point that erin just made which yeah my experience playing suns twice in the new season Consider running some singles to help you get battle tactics around the destroyer bait and trap etc Sure, sure It's like I don't disagree. It's it is an extra body Okay But like Okay Yep, that's a fair point. It's an extra body. I'll concede it So it's not nothing. It's just mostly nothing Sure, that's fine It's an extra body that dies very very very very very easily to almost anything in the enemy army That is also true Like they're not dedicating high like high quality units to you here Okay Uh, cool. Cool. Let's go over to back to here that was battle scroll. Let's talk FAQ Okay FAQ all right, let's uh Let's talk about some just key FAQ items here. I mentioned suns of bammet. So we'll just pick right back up with that King rod can be your general now in all of the factions and you can still do that which is great What a weird thing it was that he couldn't lead anybody What a silly stupid thing that was a king. Yes Yeah The king could not lead your forces just the dumbest thing, but it's been fixed now. So that's fine Um mere cannon his spell got changed Where uh, I don't remember what this was before honestly, wasn't it like the main The main thing that they've done here the this and the Dark not darker the lore of the soul release for both the soul re spell and from your canon They made it to where it cannot be affected by the spell extension or the extension from arcan Is the is the key thing? Yeah, because arcan's got the six inch. Yeah, both spells the six six six inch extension. That's what people are doing to make it Really crazy Cool. So yeah, they just shut that off Good to know. All right, cool Uh, and then we've got uh, your your dark acolytes and your lower lore of Ossian sorcery soul release So if you already mentioned the soul release one and then the dark acolyte is in your hero phase if the first spell This general attempts to cast from the lore of ossian sorcery in that phase is successfully cast that spell cannot be unbound The change there I think is that you can no longer auto cast an endless spell Right. I think you could do that previously. You know the last wording Yep Got it Temptations of slanash. They just clarify the timing on when the depravity points happen, which is relevant Obviously because if you if you if it would happen immediately And like you you offer it and then it like in the middle of their attack sequence And you trip up over the five of ward then they would then you're taking the five of ward against that sequence of attacks Right, but now it's they clarified it to say no no it happens after everything has been resolved So which is fine. Okay cool um The orc flame keeper the master flame rune Where each time a friendly fireslayers models slain within 12 inch of this unit as a result of attacks or abilities Increased the value of the dice beside this unit by one to a maximum of six. Did they just clarify the trigger? There is that what it was? Yeah, I think it's the wording now stops battle shock from counting. I believe Uh, somebody can correct me if that's wrong, but that was my understanding of what this does just turns out battle shock Gotcha. Okay as as counting toward it Uh, yes, very good. Uh Okay, cool Oh, and then yes that the other point that people are making with the by changing it restricting to the lower of Ossian sorcery because I think it was just the first spell they cast um, but like obviously what it changed you now is Uh, yes, because I remember talking about mystic shield with it being my favorite thing And obviously you can't do that anymore. And obviously it would show up like whorefrost and all those spells as well from from being able to be cast and not unbound Yeah, that's a good point Um, they clarified terrain control and fixed the thing we talked about last week Um, which is yeah, absolutely. So just like so garrisons can be controlled and stuff like that tyler. This is this is addressing what you brought up Yep, yep Absolutely Getting caught out with uh, like they call the battle tactic before of like controlling the terrain piece Um, and then they didn't realize it was defensible and then at the end, you know, your opponents like Actually, you have to be in it so you could never have done it Yeah Yep So now we just said no, no if you're standing around the thing. It's it's fine. You're good. You're good. It's fine um The the other thing that I thought was interesting Was the in addition unlike objective terrain features do not remain under your control if there are no longer any friendly models contesting them Clarifying that uh point as well. Um, that you don't just like continually own all of them that you've touched Um, which is a thing going way back to a couple a couple seasons where we had the the question Where we had the the grand strat or whatever of like touch everything Yeah, and it was like, well, do I still own this or How how much do I how like could I walk away from it? It's funny that we're finally now a year later getting an answer to that question. So They did the Same with this whole blight lust for domination grand strategy Yes, however, like objectives grave sites do not remain under control if there are no longer any friendly friendly models contesting them So, yep Good to see that. Yep um, they clarified the like if something's blocking line of sight is it also blocking line of sight to Uh endless spells or points in the battlefield There was some contention here because the way that the core rules were phrased. It was blocking line of sight to models Like to each other units, right? And so hence endless spells or points in the battlefield could be Uh exempted from that but the answer here was yes Okay, cool Um, if two things fix an ability Like one thing sets it to six and one thing sets it to two something we're gonna see In this current season Right, like who wins and the answer is it's a simultaneous effect Which means that the player whose turn is taking place would be overridden By their opponents ability which should apply afterwards. So I hate timing things like this. This is one of those real catchy call-out things But it's almost always going to be the case that somewhere this kind of deep rules happens and so you know Yeah, this this came up right this came up regularly in our local play I've I've tried to answer this many times And it was I'm glad they clarified it was never exactly clear. What was the the way we were supposed to answer this I thought it was simultaneous, but yeah, it just wasn't crystal clear. So yeah, good change Yeah, there's like a logical structure. You could you could argue your way through to it That was pretty pretty straightforward given the the core rules. It just is gonna have this clarity um And then finally The mastery of magic and masters of destiny So as I mentioned already if the if the if big bird changes the the dice It's not a modifier. So as you can still pmd masters of destiny, however Any roles that have been replaced? So this is your destiny dice Uh count as un uh unmodified roles. It cannot be re-rolled changed or modified Unless noted below, so Yep, I saw you were missing this the big serif on change. Maybe we should mention that go for it Okay, so uh Page 81 telepathic summons telepathic summons spell cast me out of six range of nine Assessor cast pick one friendly serif on unit that is not a monster That's the key thing and that is visible to the cast to remove that unit from the battlefield So to begin holy within range the cast more than nine for many units that unit cannot move in the next Move face So that telepathic summons that was how folks were doing the start of the trog bomb that everybody was loving in the game With your your trog of the dawn getting pushed forward in the in the hero phase So that is now not an option because it is a monster And then they've also added page 98 lord croak arcane vessel changed the first sentence to read Once per phase when this unit attempts to cast a spell before making the casting role You can pick either one friendly skink wizard within 12 or one for the oracle anywhere in the battlefield So again, uh change where previously you could cast all four of croak spells Through a skink wizard or a friendly oracle now you're just limited to the one Uh, I know our our buddy polkas throw is not a fan of this at all It's probably a I got some angry text messages from him last week And uh, they did the same of course to the slant star master with arcane vessel with a once per phase limitation I mean, I don't know doesn't seem like a stretch to think this is probably a healthy change They've got some point drops. I think serif on like always is probably going to be fine Sure Marcella anything anything we want to add on any other any of these f a q items pretty straightforward overall Yeah, I think we we covered everything Uh, yes, sir. If I go ahead people are correcting you the telepathic summons was coalesced not star born Yes, did you say star born? I didn't catch it if you did. Oh, did I say star born? That's fine And the telepathic summons was never usable on monsters Um, oh, is that what was oh, I thought they took that It's the distance change. I believe it's it's the distance clarified there. Yes nine inches. Gotcha I'm ranging nine. Okay. Interesting. So the main I guess the main change with the chalk bomb was the once per phase All right, I see. Okay. Thank you for the clarification on that they also Drain magic was not working how it was written. They they updated drain magic spell So yeah, where it now actually works on dispels Basically, I think the main thing is successful cast until the end of the phase each time a friendly serif on wizard Is picked to cast a spell instead of attempting to cast that spell they can attempt to dispel An endless spell if they do so add one of the dispelling roll in addition to the end of the phase subtract one from unbinding rolls Made for enemy units. So yeah, just some some word change there because the way that was worded previously It was not working exactly on the dispel side. I think in particular Nice, uh, hopefully that's right. Uh, apparently I'm getting some things wrong here with serif on so That's all right. It's a lot of things to to remember every FAQ What all it's gonna do isn't isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world oftentimes I'll read them and be like, I don't get it. What changed because if you don't know the right deeply it's It's often harder to Catch that thing. So yep Okay Cool very good. Alrighty Let's uh, let's keep you on So that's the FAQ that that takes us of course To endless spells which we will close out just discussing the endless spells here We'll try to move at a relatively quick pace given the amount of time we can go in here Uh, all right Uh, so endless spells Horghast 60 points down 10 Predatory cv5 range of 12 units cannot receive commands in the battle shock phase While they are within 12 of any endless any endless spells in this ability In addition if a unit fails a battle shock test while it's within 12 inches of any endless spells of this ability Add d3 to the number of models that flee okay Horghast is 60 points down 10 still decently high for an endless spell Are we Let's assume for the moment that endless spells are actually viable in this season Which I am not convinced is true, but we're just going to assume that okay for this discussion Okay We're going to assume endless spells are still functional and actually can be taken and not be a total wasted points in your list Which may be possible But for now It's Horghast crossing the mark like is there some armies you see this thing fitting in in its function What do you think Marcella? It's fine. Um, it has some good play against like low bravery stuff like gits Yeah I think the biggest change here is just the down 10. So it's not like that big of a change. Sure Um, and it's very low All the rules are the same, right? Yeah, they look the same and the the casting value is so low. I feel like it's gonna it's gonna get unbound right Yeah, I mean this thing gets wiped pretty pretty quickly It's just a question of is it worth it to pop it out? Have its effect battle shock somebody and then they clear it out at the start of their turn, right? Is the one turn of effect going to be valuable enough? Probably not is my my guess Oh, yeah, I Saw some play with this the last seasons like to play so mergoc. I don't know if it's him with a stormkeep account Yeah, he was a big fan of this in a stormcast list Gavin, of course with his Doc 15 bow snakes, etc. Right Gavin was running this a lot Yeah, I know I know who Gavin is now. So that's that's that's a step forward. That's that's progress here We're all learning I can't I can't get all the rules right, but I can learn who people are especially when they are two times or three times or four times winners of the Frontline game the what's it called ITC remember that ITC. That's what it's called. I'm a competitive player. I know these things So but yeah, I don't see this a whole lot I'd be a little surprised it feels like it maybe go down another 10 points and it'd be fine But yeah, it seems like another one of those you're gonna see on the margins Like people who build a list for it they'll get some value out of it as a one-time player Then it'll go away with the dispel But uh, yeah, I think it's still kind of interesting feels right to me Yeah, okay, aether void pendulum 40 points up 10 Uh, a lot a lot big big change here big change here Uh CV of six range of eight. It's predatory moves eight and flies After this end the spell is moved roll a die for each unit that has any models that pass across in each other Unit that's within an inch of it. So we've got a total effective range of 17 inches On a 2 plus that unit suffers d6 mortal wounds, but there is something else important that I've skipped over It can be moved up to eight inches and fly when you move this end the spell It must move in a straight line either in the direction with the tip of the pendulum blade is pointing Or the opposite direction to that that's right. It can actually Pendulum now. Okay We did it. Yay Oh Yeah, no more set and go goes both ways now. Yep, amazing I I submit to you that the reason this only went one direction is because of the piece of art that was commissioned for it originally Like I said this for years in the original piece of art if you look at this thing It's huge, right like you see a person they're like this big and the pendulum swings down like this Right, it's like the size of my arm compared to a person being the size of my fingernail And so in their heads it was going like this Across the battlefield. So of course it couldn't go back because it's in mid swing The problem is the model is not that it doesn't matter what the art was the model is this big And it's going like this clearly Okay And we haven't mentioned yet on now not d3 mortal wounds, but now on a 2 up d6 We're back to d6 mortal wounds, which is what it was originally Marcella ice to use this with little marathi. Oh, it teleports very appropriate with little marathi Teleport her forward and just check this into my opponent's face. It was a thing of beauty hitting all kinds of units I loved it. It was beautiful. And and it's back on the menu. I think this is fantastic I think this is going to see some play This is great with hero face teleports like I just talked about so maybe scaven little grace here 3d6 pick the two highest pumps and primal dyes Get out of dodge after the fact with your knoll hole. You get to cheat because you're scaven Uh, yeah, it's I'm a big fan. I like the point cost Yeah Yep Thank you I I agree like I do think you'll see people Play this some because I don't think you care. You're you're just trying to get it out there Get it to hit a big number of units splash a lot of mortal wounds and then just be like, yeah fine Kill it. Yeah, whatever. I'll just do it again. You know in my turn So, yeah, it's fine Okay, chronomatic cogs Uh, god bless this spell for finally being dead 50 points down 20. I will not miss this piece of crap. I hate this on the spell. I always have You increase the flow of time or decrease the flow of time. It's set up. It's casting really six sixth range If it's increasing you can reroll charge rolls for friendly units while they're holding within 12 And if you're decreasing time now instead You can attempt to cast either arcane bolt or mystic shield With a friendly wizard holy within six this endless spell without counting that spell Towards the number of spells that wizard can attempt to cast in that phase in addition to track one from hit rolls For shooting attacks that target wizard heroes while they're holy within six inches of any endless spell with this ability Okay, and then you can switch it around cool I don't think we're gonna see it a lot But uh, also, I think if they didn't change it, it would have been untenable in current meta like it would just be Broken even at 70 points You know to reroll all your casts when magic is so much more important now apparently and you have The primal the primal dice you can use Um, well that was my first thought marcel, but I was thinking more about it right because they added the You cannot do a reroll with primal dice on top, right? Sure, like you you get one you get two bites You get like two bites at the apple you roll it if it's really bad you can reroll it or if it's close you can add d6 Right, I feel like you have like two options there. Yeah, so that's just it like yes, they don't stack but Like I so I I did use the Contorted epitome who has the built-in reroll as I mentioned in this phase and what I found was exact My behavior was exactly what Marcella just described right like if I just duff the roll instant reroll if I was high or close instant d6 Let's go to the primal magic if that if that's a good point, right? Yeah So Okay Yeah, uh, I not trying to think of uh instance where this would be interesting like there's got to be some Let's build army Caster out there that like yeah, I'm in for this, but yeah, I don't know if the chat is any ideas. I couldn't think of one No, I don't I don't think you'll see this much. I think it's still a miss and it's fine Good, it's had time in the sun. It can get a lot of stuff. It's an MSL uh Okay emerald life swarm 60 points what it was before it didn't move it, you know It heals or returns things More wasn't I wasn't seeing it a lot. I don't know if you had either of you were seeing it a lot It does have some niche uses a little certainly. Yeah niche uses. Yeah, like I said some limineth list healing light of a therian or or some heroes Or something, uh, but yeah, not on Marcella. Do you see this a whole lot? I Only with like sentinels to bring them back or like something like luminous, but no Yeah, there's really no changes like on any of the the numbers, right? Feels like it's probably a little too high Yeah, especially I mean particularly if you're going to see a lot of endless spells going away Like this is one of those where yeah You can get rid of it and that would hurt you like you're going to feel that in some instances What your opponent being able to readily get rid of it from a dispel standpoint? So yeah, it's probably a little too high. I'd feel better about this at like 40 Certainly no more than 40 Yeah, but yeah It's okay. Probably see a little bit on the margins still the next one though Uh-huh. You want you want to grab this one? sheminids of old gush Oh boy, uh, so Yes, a setup a cast of six a setup range of holy with an eight Now both parts have to be within six of each other and again holy within sick holy with an eight of the castor And then they can move eight and again they have to remain within six of each other so total of 16 And then after this endless spell is moved roll the dice for each unit each units that has any models that have passed across and for each Other unit within one inch of it at the end of its move on a two plus that unit cannot issue or receive commands until the start of the next zero phase And it is only 50 points Thanks, so Yeah This obviously would be my money for the endless spell that we are going to see What what It's it's jimmy this man. We had a what what how Why is that one 60 and that one 50 help me because it's jimmy. That's a good question We had we had to get back. This was the broken endless spell when malign sorcerer came out We had a long period of reasonableness. We've got it. We've got to get back to og status Yep, I just want to bring back up here. Remember how this thing that shut off the I mean this has a longer range like to be fair Horror gas is automatic Okay, so no two up. I mean, I know it's two up versus I know but you can roll once and this does have a longer range Like a lot longer range Right because this one is 12 inches plus eight inch fly and then a 12 inch aura on top of that So like horror gas is a 32 inch battle shock suppressant Right like it's it's got range Whereas this guy is set but again, this thing's 60 points Then we come down here Right geminids That's right folks now that we're talking about again. We're back to the pronunciation on this one. It's the geminids of ogish I Will not be taking questions Uh Only a 17 inch range for its effect, right? So that is a difference. So it's a material difference But it shuts off like all phases all phases on a two up. Let's do it a lot Multiple units not one unit Yeah, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah And it's no longer till the start of the combat phase. So until the start We've no effected. Yeah. Yeah Almost feels like a misprint, but I feel like this is gonna see a lot of gameplay. We're gonna see it a lot I agree. Yeah No one leaves against me. No redeploying against me. No all-out defencing against me Yep Inspiring presence. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Shut it all down. Shut it down. You know how like the whole point of 3.0 Was Was like we're gonna make the game more interactive. So when it's not your turn You'll actually get to do stuff You know, like you'll have responses to what they do and like that was the whole pitch of the addition Like yeah, it's way more it's reactionary now. You know, you can't just go get a sandwich While it's their turn because you're gonna have like you need to be making choices about what to redeploy and when do you unleash and you know You're gonna do things or not It's over Yeah, and which is smoke breaks. They're back on the menu Mm-hmm So, what do you think? Hey, whoa, you're I Much love brother much love Get yanky call it gammon into little gish It's a joke just for me and perhaps anybody else who's been playing d&d since like 1990 Um, but trust me it makes sense and it's very funny. I love it So what should this be? What what point value should this be? I've got a point value in mind, but I'll let you guys start 90. Yep. Oh, it's the same number. I was gonna say it's so funny. I was gonna say 90. Yes, okay I was uh men 80 men 80. Yeah All right Well, um, yeah Let's let's let's go ahead. Let's go crazy folks. We only missed it by 50 percent sure Just uh, just uh that close. I mean what it should be is not this scroll Honestly, sure. It's insane Yeah, but like but min nine if we're gonna keep this scroll which it just shouldn't work like this Right Make it one unit Yeah, make it one unit make it so You know like everybody within an inch Uh where it lands they have to pay an extra command point So like it's a very small distance total eclipse Make it so it's happening only on a four up if it's gonna have this effect not on a two up So it's really 50 50 and unreliable. So spike is like every spike in the universe just looked at this and started drooling sure Right. Like there's lots of ways this could have been printed that isn't this Okay, yep It's egregious. It's like yeah one of the it's probably the dumbest thing that we got in this this whole thing Yep, I agree Okay, okay, uh my level of mail strum. It's 30 points. That's probably still 30 points too expensive Anybody take a different one go for it. All right, Marcella go for it. Put them in this place I I feel like uh for 30 points There there are some armies that that could really abuse this it's kind of like Maybe like a slot machine Or a little bit of gambling where like you drop it and then you run away And then maybe they have a lot of wizards and it does a lot of stuff, but I think it has some some uses at 30 points Okay Yeah, I think I've seen this played by a couple people so far and they're big fans I think it yeah, I think it has real potential at 30 points I'll let's leave it at that. I mean it In in favor of it my I'll tell you my problem with it it certainly is it like It is I really don't like this spell this endless spell. Um, I don't like it because of its range Um, maybe it's better later game Or if you have other ways to it's like 16 inch 16 28 28 we're talking about 28 here. Sure Sure, you're saying when it blows, right? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah Of what it's what it's counting Yeah First of all like I see this people saying like it explodes when you just spell it Um, I don't think that will stick. That's my honest answer there Um, I think that they I think that rule is referencing clearly back to What was said in the previous paragraph where it says at the end of the phase then blah blah blah it's removed from play I I think they will change this so it doesn't happen on a dispel Okay Um, but you have to be running. Maybe it's just my general hatred of magic Um, but you like fair enough. I'll take it if you're running a bunch of casters You can juice this thing up. I don't think this thing lives and charges over multiple turns for all the reasons we've said Okay. Yeah So like you have to be running enough casters and or about or and or a A model slain type of thing where you're gonna like make this happen immediately in your turn Okay, yeah, you like you pair with range damage shooting It's like a shooting shooting combination sure sure If people want to disagree with me that malevolent maelstrom is really good. That's fine I I I'm okay with it. I can be wrong But I I think there's this like if you're running a specific strat That's going to juice this thing up and make it explode sort of away from you and in them fine Fine, I guess Even even if you don't like juice it up when you add six to the value on like each end That's like 13 inches right of space. So that that could be like most of someone's army Uh, I think this like the combo play like would appeal to johnny And then like if you like really pull it off you could you could do a lot of damage to a lot of units Okay, all right, I will rescind my initial argument then and we'll see when we see malevolent maelstroms everywhere And they're doing a lot of work. I'll take it back. I I accept I will tell I accept chat. I will be wrong on this one That's fine Uh But well, I guess time will tell and I'm I'm willing to be wrong Uh Tyler what's your take on uh palisade In its current see palisade. Yeah, I think the casting belly went up, which probably a good idea casting belly seven range of 18 and so set a poly within range Uh of the caster 18 inches after this endless spell is set up and at the start of each subsequent hero phase Roll a dice for each unit within six of this endless spell on a three up that unit cannot make shooting attacks in that turn Add three inches to the range of this ability at the start of each battle round after the turn in which this endless spell Was summons were at 40. We went up 10 previously So you've got Within six or 18 24 inches when this pops out On a three plus cannot make shooting attacks. I mean it sounds Sounds notable You know potentially worth considering on paper I still don't know how much we're going to see it. I could be wrong on this one I love to hear people come out in defense of this one because I don't know. I do have a hard time personally seeing this a whole lot It's situational the number one is of course Seven is better than whatever it used to be but it's still potentially just going to get dispelled Sure on your opponent's turn, right and then there you go So I don't know how you get around that for the most part Yeah, are so any other thoughts on this? No, I think shooting armies in particular are going to make it priority to dispel it It's easy to dispel and I think the three up is very often unreliable I feel like uh, like I just always failed the three up in like the phase that it mattered. So right that's tough. Yeah three out there. Yeah Okay, so once again, this is like if if everybody's coming out so strong on maelstrom Let's just let's just say I'm wrong on that and it's actually a really good spell at 30 points Okay, I'll just give I'll give the I'll give chat and both of you that like maelstrom is super good There's no we're not super good, but go ahead. That's fine. It's good It's somewhere between good and super good Okay, if it's if it's there's no way this is 40 points Yeah, there's no way Because first of all that expansion is never gonna happen It's really only stopping unleash hell because then you get shut off So that's all it's actually doing because you're only counting on it existing in your turn Yeah, okay Yeah, uh And didn't we just talk about a better thing? That shuts off unleash hell on a two up not a three up as well as shutting off Like every other darn thing they're gonna do and it's only 10 points more Right, right Yep Right, so like Yeah, I mean like you why would you take this what where's the where's the list that's like That's like no this not not gametes Yeah, a thousand percent. Yeah, the internal parody is just not there for those two spells. Yeah Um Yeah, and the whole this is another one where just a lack of curation Like they just seem to take a hard pass on any adjustments to endless spells until the next battle scroll, which is just weird to me Like yeah, we we got a few and yeah, so Oh, now we got the chat back and off. It's not super good. No one said super good. Okay. All right It's all good chat. I won't I won't mis-scribe what you're saying. It's good It's good my official opinion. It's good Okay, I'll side with everyone you have convinced me you've sold me okay all right uh purple sun of shish 80 points down 10. It's still the same purple sun Yep. Yep. Okay. It seems fine. Yeah down down 10. It's fine Okay All right, cool Cool No, no, we got it. We got it. We got to shut up the t-shirt did its job. All right. We're moving on Yep, there we go like it The rule's got fixed on this and it's fine. Good. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Good days. Let's let's move on Uh quick silver swords at 60 cv6 range of six predatory eight inches After this endless spell is moved you can pick one unit that has any models it passed across And will 12 dice for each five plus that so unit suffers one more wound in addition That more wounds caused by this cannot be negated. It's quick silver swords. You know it. You love it. You've seen it for years Yep, same great. This is same great taste 100% This is the What was the name border war border war was the quintessential general's Handbook mission back in the day. This is the quintessential endless spell in my mind This endless spell is perfect 60 points was right. It's been under valley at times. Amazing. I love this thing Use it a lot Not now obviously in a world where jim and eds is 50 we're We're we're The rails are off and nothing and everything is meaningless, but sure. Uh, yes points are made up and yeah, nothing matters. Yeah, sure Yeah, but uh, I I like I love this endless spell. Marcel any thoughts on swords? Have you run this much over the years? Uh, no, um I haven't seen it a whole lot, but it seems it seems okay Um, I heard that these used to be racist swords and they got better after they became unracist. They did. Yes They they went to some uh, some some sort of training and they they they got better. Yeah, absolutely They're no longer just anti-chaos or whatever they were. Yeah, they had some therapy Yeah, I mean and I think I think stormkeep is making an excellent point there, which is you know pendulum You put pendulum all you know pendulum now against this it's I didn't see the comparison with new pendulum. Maybe maybe sword should be down a little bit given the the new pendulum, but it's fine Yeah, very reasonable. Okay Ravenax gnashing jaws 70 points 6 cv6 8 inches flies 3d6 Predatory you pick one unit that has any models it passed across or that is within an inch of it at the end of its move And roll a die on a two up The roll for this endless spell is moved was greater than that unit's move characteristics suffers a number of more wounds equal to the difference Rounding down This endless spell is obviously huge. Um, it's doing most of its damage. Honestly when you just spit it out there to do it 70 points I think this could have gone down 10 is my honest answer In a world of what I want to see endless spells doing which is like being thrown out there and doing some damage I think it's Again, like I know we keep saying it but like geminis should be 90 points. I'm actually baselining this against 90 not stupid 50 Okay, because otherwise everything just falls off the rails and there's no There's no comparisons But like so putting this up against the other damage spells like swords. Yeah, it's Probably better in a lot of cases than swords But worse in some cases it was always the debate this the last the last couple of seasons jaws and geminis or jaws and swords Yeah, because jaws is Swords is more universal in application than right, but jaws has higher impact potential Situationally, which is why it tells me like, okay If we if we say if we say swords stay at 60 then this feels like it should also be 60 Because of the situationalness that's that's where my head's at again I don't think it really matters much like 10 points and 10 points Really cares, but It's fine Yeah, it's good. Yeah, this this thing devastates certain armies Stormcast among them. Yeah, sure. I mean again in a world where pendulum is what it costs. It's like We've got a couple standouts here like we're we're not gonna see jaws. We're gonna see pendulum We're not gonna see the wall. We're gonna see geminis like it's easy to read this stuff off the point Basically, right no matter how much quality we think the spell has it's just like That when the when the points are upside down in the best spells are the cheapest spells Yeah, it just doesn't work okay Shackles 40 points Customized seven and a range of eight inches They got it all got to be set up within three inches of each other and holy within range of the caster Started moving phase roll a dice for each unit within six inches on the spell subtract the result From that unit's move characteristic to a minimum of zero Until the end of that phase in addition the units move characteristic to zero that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds Marcella, how do you like how do you like these shackles? I think the changes made it More impactful than not I think you before just what don't run don't charge and not being able to move at all That's that's wild. Yeah Yeah, I got a game in saturday against this Yeah, saturday and Impactful the exactly what you said. Yeah. So for example, like my Nitrokonos needed to get Into some Giselle's needed to do it and it made it dicey on a charge You know made gave him more opportunity to redeploy right because it it took off like five inches Of the the 12 inches. I'm now I'm going seven. I've got yeah, so just situationally It's it's very meaningful and each unit within six, you know taking five inch move six inch move units down to next to nothing Pretty pretty meaningful Yeah, like I mean it again. It's another one where it's potentially going to have that issue that we keep talking about which is What you wanted to have an effect on your opponent's turn, but they're potentially going to get rid of it But you went exactly where I was going Yeah, anything that has that equation. Yeah, yep conceptually on paper What you're now paying for is a 40 point Area redeploy Okay, that's that's effectively what's happening. You're setting this thing up. It's hitting some area Hopefully of their army in their turn And reducing how close they get to you by a d6 engines Right. Hopefully it's not obvious. Which is what redeploy is doing on the backside to one unit, right? It's moving you d6. It's making their charge at d6 inches harder Again, it's not an exact analogy because obviously if they you know only needed to move eight to get to you And they have a 14 inch movement then it's completely irrelevant They're still at three inches away whereas redeploy would always still move you the d6 But this is also hitting an area of people theoretically. It's like there is actually a like again on paper You look at that and go well, it's kind of an interesting effect Right to be an area redeploy Getting rid of the charge thing. I'm actually happy about just because I always hated it But it still has to be set up where it's affecting the caster Which is really funny because a lot of the foot casters are actually going to have a low enough move that this stands a decent chance of doing d3 mortal wounds to them But the really the the achilles heel is exactly what you said Yeah, right, which is like is this ever actually surviving if they if it's if it's an inconvenience Is this ever surviving into their turn? Yeah, so it it didn't matter just for reference It did matter in the game because I was playing against gaven and they were Here with face teleporting skitterly being a grace here in a certain area of the board away from my embines So, okay, that was a good play, right? I'm not going to be able to get rid of it I cannot I do not have it as I had a I had a jaconis who could have Heroku will power to get rid of it potentially with a dispell but so and even in that situation, right? Yeah, if you got to hear over there, but yeah in general, I agree. It's it has the basic problem. Yep So I think this could I'm probably going to get left on the shelf Mostly That's my idea. Yeah, that's probably right Okay, suffocating grave tide 60 points down 10 Casting value of six in a range of eight predatory and the spell it can be moved 12 inches and fly After this on the spell is moved for each unit that has any models It passed across roll a number of dice equal to the number of models in that unit For each five plus that unit suffers one mortal wound Wow, what a difference this thing did over its old version Uh And I think we've got that point by wrong buddy. Oh, do I ever here? Yeah, let me check. You'll have to look at the battle scroll points. Am I wrong? Uh Prismatic palace say 30 points and it did not get adjusted. No, it was Oh, sorry, suffocating grave tide Bring forward not on the battle scrollers. Yeah, 30. That's why I had to bring for it. Yeah, suffocating grave tide was 30 It's still 30. Yeah, it's not on the battle scroll Wait, hold on Pause We got to check the tapes. We got to check the tapes I need I need hey woes. I need hey woes like real sweet. Uh, tech tape checking thing. He has he has cool stuff Yeah, shoot. No, that's not what I want Uh, tell me he's wrong. Tell me he's wrong chat. It's a running theme tonight. He loves internet. He said he said as much himself Yeah, absolutely I can be wrong It's all good Being wrong is how we grow Grace comes up as 30 in the app, but does that mean anything? Okay, I'm going to the I'm going to the actual pitch battle profiles Page, let's see here. There we go. Uh, suffocating grave tide. I'm sorry 30 points. That's my fault everybody. I apologize I apologize. I'm so sorry. That must be a copy paste error. Thank you for catching that Tyler Mm-hmm. Sorry everyone. I had made it off the pitch But I must have just looked the wrong I must have read the wrong row. Sorry everybody. Yeah So, I mean 30 points. This feels pretty attractive as a as a why not right against Big armies, big model count armies, wound density armies, dome light, etc, etc Oh, yeah, the zombies Zombies, yeah like It's I I don't know if anybody might be able to say this I feel like the Somewhere we've had to change either the eight inch got changed. Correct the distance. Yes Yes The it's it's threat distance changed. Correct. This used to have to be said like at some point time I don't remember when exactly it changed. I don't remember exactly how this went but At some point grave tide was like had to be set up within six inches of you Which was holy within six, which was like comical because this thing is huge It's like this and your wizard would have to be like just Right in front of him is where it had to be put right? And so now it's got a little bit more generous Uh, it's range set up and then also like I think the distance it could travel in farther Yeah, but when exactly that happened gosh, I don't remember Yeah, I don't know so I threw this in my list on saturday at the RTT It was pendulum and grave tide pendulum because it's too cheap and as storm keep put pointed out Right, it just kind of skews things a little bit in terms of swords and jaws with the point efficiency And it's not like maybe 50 gets pendulum roughly where it needs to be somewhere. I know 50 60 somewhere around there The but the grave tide is just it's so cheap But I I went up against At best units of 10 so like it just never came in sure, right? So it's still going to be situational matchup dependent But for those matchups it could feel really good in the right matchup similar to jaws, etc So yeah, I think it's going to be played a fair amount at 30 points Just for the right matchups Marcella, and it's yeah Yeah, I think the the change from a six up to a five up pretty big Um, and then even if you go against like a low model count army like giants And you know, whatever it's it's 30 points It's not like too big of a risk. I think if you have the 30 points, it's it's not a bad investment Right and yeah, and it could block block a good amount of space, right? You can just use it as a space blocker Yeah charge blocker. Yeah Yeah Yeah, you can definitely do some work there I actually quite like this one at 30 points because yeah, there's not a ton of hordes where it's of extreme high value, but there is some and 30 points is often a rounding error on a list Right and and so like to me I I agree with you I think Marcella you summed it up perfectly, right? Like the the risk to this one is low enough to me that I probably didn't cut anything to get it Yeah, right. So Okay, cool. All right. Let's talk about burning head since this spell is Wild now. I love I love when we every time we just get like Completely different versions of certain and the certain and the spells have kind of always done basically the same thing, right? Like you mentioned quick silver swords like it's always basically done kind of the same thing Whereas burning head. They just keep trotting out whole new versions of this thing like what is it going to be this time? Let's find out Okay flaming skull After this endless spell. Oh, so sorry cv6 eight inch range and eight inch fly on its predatory After this endless spell is moved the commanding player can pick one enemy unit within one inch of this endless spell And roll a die on a two up This endless spell is treated as part of that enemy unit until either that unit is destroyed or the endless spell is Dispelled at which point the endless spell is removed from play While this endless spell is part of a unit at the end of each movement phase Roll a die on a two up the unit that this endless spell is part of suffers d3 mortal wounds Okay I think they hadn't already for this one. It did it basically was a marker is how I got Uh, it's how it got ruled Like it acts as a marker So it doesn't like so it doesn't interfere negatively with weird things like coherency and and other silly stuff Once a model in a unit Once that is part of an enemy unit the burning head becomes a marker that indicates which unit It is part of the range of visibility to this endless spell is determined using the enemy units Okay, interesting like there was all sorts of weird things that would happen with it If it was actually like just treated as part of the unit all sorts of weird rules things go go sideways But if it's just a marker then it's fine So, yeah, it was more of a clarification than anything else to pro to prevent any kind of strange gamey thing, right? Yeah Okay, so 30 points right it doesn't It it's going to do d3 mortal wounds in the turn you cast it. Hopefully Right. Sure. It's the end of each movement phase Is it worth it just to be like Have this little annoying thing On their unit that they have to like That they have to dispel otherwise, you know potentially things like their Their uh utility heroes just burn up Yeah, uh murathi killer Right, right. Yeah, absolutely You know something like murathi you stick it to Utility heroes you stick it to right where because it's each movement phase So like they kind of have to dispel it. Otherwise it will just burn that thing down decently quickly potentially within like one battle rounder by the time it comes around to you again Right if you're talking about like your five wound hero The decentest chance you just kill it outright by the time it comes back to your turn again right Now you have to go ahead go ahead marcella. Oh, yeah, if they don't dispel it then yeah, it's very annoying, right It's like a dot We we we went from a we went from a We went from a dd which was the last version of this We'll go to our mmo terms right here. We went from a dd to a dot okay so like You know it's 30 points and it does kind of force a dispel if it if it attaches itself to the right unit All right, the key is they can't get away from it Once it's attached to them. It's attached to them. It's gonna follow them around Whereas a lot of other end the spells one of the simple counter plays is just like I don't know leave Sure, I just like walk away Like that's a pretty easy tactic to get away from a lot of mmo spells. That's when you can Do we need the two up here? I know it's a two up but like no 30 points I I liked to your point about Having endless spells that are very cheap to where you include them Because you have enough cast where you're getting value by forcing them to be dispelled Sure, you're not expecting to do damage, right? But you're taking away a cast. You're taking wind, right? You're taking something away from your opponent. That's interesting. You're you're forcing a heroic action something Right. I think that's a cool idea and if Yeah, I could see this playing that role at like 20 or 10 points And 30 is still pretty cheap, but not when grave tide is 30 and some other things are cheap So yeah, I don't think this one. I mean, they're very much. They're very much the two edge the two sides the same sword Right, like grave tide at 30 you're taking is as cheap and has the potential to spike a lot of mortal wounds against big units Burning head you're taking at 30 points because it has the potential to to be very highly valuable against You know, like things that are way out of whack on their wounds to point ratio Like utility heroes or you know a similar issue unit to that, right? It's a fragile thing. You want to attach this to I don't know I think you okay pretty my feeling is I think you'll see sure it's I mean you just got to you know It's 17 inch threat to get it attached to a unit. Yeah You think we're gonna see it? I think you will see this somewhat. Yeah, I think you'll see some people play with it I don't know if it'll really catch on but I think you'll see some people try it Yes, I really do at this point cost Because I think killing with the new Uh With the new rules about not targeting shooting people unless you're within 12 Right from missile weapons With the value of andes Uh, the fact that I can tag an andy from 17 away and and stick this thing to him And then potentially burn him down if it's not answered To me has some value worth exploring. I don't know if it would manifest, but it feels about like value worth exploring. That's my argument Interesting, okay. Okay, Marcella. You got a tldr. Do you like this? Not like it? Not sure I like it. I think there are equal options And I think it's a very fun little mini game where you like attach it to someone and then Yeah, that's cool. It's just like a different mechanic that makes the the game more interesting Yeah, definitely All right Oh boy, how do we just keep going with these? Okay All right umbral spell portal Okay It has two parts Once per turn when a wizard is within one inch of the end of this endless spell attempts to cast a spell The commanding player may say the spell will be sent through the portal If they do so the range visibility and effects of that spell can be measured from one part of this endless Spell instead of the cast around the part of the endless spell that is considered to be part of the Cast for the purposes of unbinding Spells that summon endless spells do not benefit from this effect in addition blah blah blah and the spells it's 80 points It's spell portal Marcella Where you living, uh, I think it's it's pretty good in this meta 80 points seems like a big investment But like spell casting is is more valuable this journals handbook. Hopefully, uh, so Yeah, I think I think it'll see some play the low casting value Probably means it's going to go away a lot. So you have to recast it all your turns Yeah So I know one change that it got is that you can now unbind to the portal The chirox change Yeah So the chirox that big dummy is not 48 inches away out of unbind range. Yeah and Now do you guys know offhand if once per turn when a wizard within one inch this Inspell attempts to cast a spell the commanding player can say that the spell will be sent through the portal Did it did you have to do that previously where you Basically get one crack at the apple or did you get multiple cracks at the apple? You could only shoot a spell through once, but I think you could try more than you could try more than once Yeah, as well. Yeah, but yeah I couldn't remember if that was maybe someone in the chat knows offhand because that's a meaningful change as well If that's the case and and he add all that up and I feel like this is Sacrilegious to say but a little too high At 80 points. Oh no, like I I actually agree with you. I don't think this is an 80 point in the spell anymore Uh, because they actually made the correct rules change to how it should have always freaking worked Like again, some of these things are out of whack just because the rules were silly Like because it allows you to bomb from out of spell range and somehow magically you couldn't unbind the spell Right, uh Like that's that's why this was abused. Let's be let's be honest, right? Um And somebody pointed out as well that I forgot to mention you do have to set up one part Uh within what an inch whatever it specifies of the cast first previously Yeah, previously you could do such the whatever the hell you wanted to you didn't have to do that Which again gave you more range and shenanigans. So that's Very meaningful change you could cast it for another wizard. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Yeah, so you cast it from a wizard who's out of unbind range and yeah, just shenanigans so Yeah, it does feel like this needs to go down meaningfully Yeah, warp said it's still an 80 point on the spell because of negation teclis inquisitors said 40 to 50 points now I'm gonna split the diff there. I really think this is a 60 point on the spell now That's my honesty. Yeah, I could I could see that sure. Yeah yeah Yeah, okay doki a song about bridge Yep This endless spell is summoned with a spell that has a casting by of six in a range of 18 One part of this endless spell within one inch of the caster Instead of the other part wholly within range of the caster At the start of the movement phase the player whose turn is taking place can remove one friendly unit That is wholly within six inches of a part of this endless spell from the battlefield And set it up again wholly within six inches of the other part of this endless spell and more than nine inches from all Enemy units The unit cannot be removed and set up again in this way more than once per phase A unit removed and set up again in this way cannot make a normal move Or run in the same phase and cannot issue or receive commands Until the start of that player's next hero phase Oh In the bin Oh boy Hey, what was this place one part is and the spell wholly within the shelf Uh, wow Yeah, it's got a whack pretty good Which by the way not sad about i'm sad every I I hate and the spells that where it's just like everybody We're just like we'll just bridge that unit just bridge just bridge just bridge just bridge Thunders chaos knights baron guards or not baron guard, but knights. Yeah Hate that like that becomes the default Okay, I really do and So like I don't I don't hate this change But boy is this not an 80 point on the spell with that change Uh Call it out. They've also Wacked the Put more of a limit on the setup So previously you had extraordinary freedom on where you could set these things up But now of course set up one part of this endless spell within one inch of the caster that that was added Right and so you could just get extraordinary range with this thing previously in terms of like throwing 10 chaos knights or or 15 thunders Right and yeah Yeah, what do you guys think 40 Like it's got to go down a lot A lot yeah 50 40. Yeah, honestly, I'd I'd accept either of those points values for this thing now Yeah Because the fact that you literally are stuck nine inches away and don't even have access to re-roll to charge Or you know, which is obviously like not you you mentioned some melee units in there Obviously shooter shooter units don't care, but then they also can't set up an all-out attack or or whatever, right? So I mean everybody's everybody's getting punished and you have a lot less sort of total mobility Which by the way again, this is probably how like I don't know about the no Command issuing thing, but like the the setup thing is probably how this always should have worked Right Sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair But like There's no way this is an 80 point on the spell with this with these rules. No freaking way Uh, the storm keep pay 50 points for geminids to shut off all enemy commands or 80 points to shut off your own. Yeah, it's great All right Let's close this out here folks shards of valagar Uh, tyler you want to take the shards? Sharks has two parts in the spell of someone that they're casting by the five I can't remember. I feel like that might have changed. Maybe it was that previously range of 18 excessively cast out of the parts in the spell holy with an eight of each other holy the range of the caster Predatory when you pick it to move remove one of its parts from the battlefield and set it up again Holy with an eight of its other parts So you can't get a decent amount of movement on this in snaring Soul drain while they are within six inches of any endless spells with this ability Units cannot fly or be removed from the battlefield with an effect that would allow them to be set up again in the same turn In addition units cannot be set up within six inches of this endless spell 40 points there's a lot going on here, right? Sure. I can't imagine a good use for it. That's worth 40 points So you're thinking about, you know, silven as storm cast people popping out of grave sites Night ha and told write all of these different setups ambushers a piece of chaos potentially was something like this I mean, it's going to be situational. There's a lot of teleporters. There's a lot of setups in the game but again For it to have it just it runs into the same issue that we keep talking about Anything that requires it to be on the battlefield to have its effect In the requires it to be on the battlefield in your opponent's turn to have its meaningful effect More or not more or less get out I suspect Uh, it's too expensive to lean into that strategy of well, I'm just going to do this because it's cheap enough I'm going to cost my opponent a dispel a rogue action and a cast blah blah blah, right? There's going to be some cost that I'm getting for doing it Uh, yeah, I don't think this one gets gets there. Maybe maybe there's some special cases that I'm not thinking about But yeah, marcella, you're not a fan No, no, I don't think it's got a lot of you I mean like if you knew the armies that you're you're going to play against or Your meadow was super heavy into like these teleport setup armies Yeah, but I think there's just better options for 40 points. Yeah, it's a sideboard card It's like yeah card like it's hard. It's hard to ever justify it being main deck Yeah simple Because yeah, that's even without the problem you talked about which is which is crippling on its own sure Yeah, the the primal die season just throws a lot of these things out of whack Right where they would have to go back in and in my mind like you need to bump up the cast valley on some of these things To like make them potentially more interesting But does that like get the job done even I don't know I think that would that would give a little more gas there in my mind where like you okay, you can lean into having to hit like an eight to cast But then maybe they can't hit that nine to dispel it Sure, is is that like the answer but that feels weird. It's just it's all kind of strange. Yeah, that doesn't I first of all I'm not even sure that's actually a huge thing in the current season, but it's Yeah, yeah And then finally launching launching does what launching does he takes you out to lunch Make sure wizards the boatman boats various people around they can still make a normal move or run in the following movement phase Which is fun So A lot of wizards can ferry around so One key change they can pick one from the wizard with a wound characteristic of nine or less. Yes Yes, so even this is a this is a sad day for thankful certainly Uh, he has to actually walk around the board always always a shame to see he was a popular Launch and target. I still think at 50 points this thing will occasionally find a home in the right list that wants to do this potentially especially with the uh, nature of the um Of the current season and what you might want to do with your wizards, so sure. Yeah. Yeah, maybe a little high but A little bit a little high at least for my blood. Sure could be 40 and I'd be fine But I think like I don't think this is as as always this thing was always like a very list dependent spell where you wanted to be Doing this one particular thing with this one caster. Yeah, right and I think it'll still continue to see that use It's a shame about thankful We're all sad board went out for for our our big rap boy, but We're good, but it's fine Okay, and that's it marcella. Thank you so much for sticking us out boy. This is a long long one, but hey, thank you so much No, thanks for inviting me. I had a lot of fun. We were very happy to have you Uh, all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciated it. Uh, don't forget on your way out Hey hit like Uh, subscribe do all those fun things click all those things that make all those dings Uh, don't forget if you want to support the channel. There's lots of ways you can do so Uh, you can find the link for you know, the games I write down below like Uh, our newest game majestic 13. That's linked down there as well as the previous games. You can find The patreon link Which if you want to take your next step on your hobby journey Hey, go for it. We'd love to have you as part of the community, but as always We really appreciate you watching and uh, we'll see you next wednesday