 How much do you get paid to speak? Do you think speech should be free? Okay, but what's the opposite of hate speech? Isn't it love speech? Isn't that harassment? I don't know, but today we're going to take it to the streets of Burlington and we're going to ask people about their thoughts on the nuances between hate speech and free speech. Come with us. So, sir, what does free speech mean to you? Good question, and that's really one hard one to answer, especially out of the blue. The ability to say what you believe without harming another individual or a group of individuals. What do you think hate speech is? Hate speech is definitely harming a group or an individual. Do you think the United States government helps to protect your free speech? Can we go in and have a beer and talk about this? I don't think it interferes as much as other governments do. I wouldn't say it is the most liberal democracy in the world, but if you would divide it in 50-50, I would put us on the top 50 as compared to the bottom 50. If someone was saying something that you disagreed with, what would be like the line that they crossed that you would stop them at? It varies on what they said. Well, it varies on, let's say, for example, a person's age. I'm 61 years old. There are things that we said in my youth that are now disagreeable. But if I am talking to another 61-year-old person, I realize he is not saying that out of hate speech or an older individual. This is just the culture that we grew up with. Now, there are certain lines across all age groups that, yes. No, you can't say that. But I have been caught saying, all right, let's talk about, for example, transgender. We had a term that we used back in the 80s. It is no longer acceptable now. I was caught on that. I'm like, I didn't know that. So it is a fluid situation. Like all speech, like all language, it is fluid. What do you, how do you define free speech? Free speech is like being able to express yourself, but also express ideas that go beyond yourself. Well, it's a heavy topic with a lot of, I guess, different connotations. Totally. How do you view hate speech? I think hate speech, hate speech is a tool used to take away other people's rights. I think hate speech can be deployed in a very cynical way, in a harmful way, can be used to silence, abuse others, and it doesn't really have a positive social influence. Do you feel like there is a line between free speech and hate speech, or is it kind of blurred in your mind? Well, that's a very good question, because I look at free speech in terms of the things that society is able to express, and if you're using those terms to attack other people, and explicitly with hate speech to attack other elements of society, you're not doing a positive role, I would say instead of attacking hate speech, even though it might be a particularly heinous thing that anyone could say, it would be more effective to prevent powers that might take advantage of hate speech if it happens to come up, and then we might be able to find a balance between hate speech and, well, find a balance between free speech and I guess people's ability to express themselves, even if they don't know what the right answer is. Do you feel like the U.S. government protects free speech? That's a good question, because politically we do have a bill of rights that allows us to not be prosecuted in court for our speech, which is a valuable thing. On the other hand, so what the government protects free speech is at the question. Yeah, yeah, do you feel like it protects free speech? It's doing a good job. I think if the government or any entity wanted to do a good job protecting free speech, it would use an approach of, instead of necessarily free, it would be like promoted speech, being able to uplift the voices of people rather than just the absence of any suppression. If we want to have free speech, we should have an encouraged speech to get people who might have very strong good or contribution of opinions but aren't necessarily able to get their voices out there. I think the outcome being meant to free speech would be helping people to have free speech. Do you think social media? That's a very good and contentious question. I think no, because the risk is if you say yes out of a position of fear that you might be inviting hate speech, well that might be cynically used to forbid people from talking about contentious issues that might be ultimately for a social good. So social media companies, I don't really trust the interests of companies to decide what is necessarily free speech or hate speech. So no, ultimately I think it should be a social decision, not one of corporations to make. What would you do if you heard hate speech? Ooh, oh my God, that calls for, that call, ooh, ooh. What kind of example are we talking about? Am I going to have to kick someone's ass? Or am I going to have to... I said I will kill you in three, two, one, foot counting down. Well it's nice that they gave you some forewarning that they're about to do and I suppose. Oh my God, what's my position with, if someone is using hate speech I would have to be an active person in my community and shut that shit down personally. I have a moral position to defend people in my community. So if it came to it, I would have to, you know, I know what my correct role is as a member of society. I would have to try to stop that. If I get hit by a car doing this shot, that'd be so funny. Yo, it's a madman, fresh of the badlands, eating motherfuckers alive like Pac-Man. My boss went back and forth like backgammon, ironclad camel, camel toe backhanded, grand racking, Amtrak, fast track jamber, gambling, black jack attack with rap famine, love tap landing, pimp, slap, man handle. If you're weak, harder to change the damn channel. No preamble, verse alone will stay an ample. Dismantle careers over steely dance samples. Impromptu skills cost too much, compute. Lost to call truth after the bomb shoots. Lost to what started lying. Rip apart a dime. But no girl gets no heart of mine. Dark as mine. Taking blasphemous thoughts. Acting as God. Thunderclass. Blasting his socks off his feet. That was great. Let me ask you one question, one question. 45. What would you do if someone said something hateful to you? Punch them in the face. What if they said something hateful to somebody else? Punch them in their mouth. Thank you. All right. So what, oh yeah, what's your name? My name's Charles one. And what's your personal definition of hate speech? Personal definition of hate speech? God, that's a tough question. Like I think hate speech is speech. It's like, you know, people in support of Nazis and stuff like that. I think that that kind of stuff is hate speech. I don't know. That's a tough question. I would agree that stuff that Nazis say is usually hateful speech. That ideology, things like that. Yes, definitely. So in the United States right now, hate speech is protected under free speech. What do you think people should do when they hear hate speech? Well, in public and stuff, I wouldn't engage with those people because that's what they're looking for. They're looking for you to react. And you know what I mean? They're looking for the attention when you go and you confront them and you engage with those people that they're looking for that. Yeah, some of that is protected speech. I would do my best to ignore it and just walk away from it. Somebody, you know what I'm saying? Who should it be reported to? Well, I think you should let law enforcement know so they can kind of, you know what I mean? Like if there's a bunch of skinheads or something like that around the corner, like we should probably know about that if we don't know about it. You know what I mean? So yeah, that's a big problem. What about in private if it's somebody that you know that's saying hate speech? Like, give me an example. Like a friend or a family member is saying things that you are realizing would qualify as hate speech under your definition. So if it's just speech that makes me uncomfortable? Well, under your definition of hate speech, Nazi or Nazi related things where they might be sympathizing with fascistic views of some kind. Well, that's tough, right? So, you know, if it's a family member or a friend or something like that and they all of a sudden they're spouting off these views, if that's new to you, like I maybe try to talk to them like, what are you talking about, man? Like where's this coming from? And if that, you know, is their view now or whatever, like they've been indoctrinated somewhere in a school somewhere online somewhere, you know, I think then and some in a situation like that. That's a, you probably have to cut that cut ties there. But, you know, depending on what he's saying, you know, if he's threatening violence, you know, legitimate, like a mass shooting or something like that is definitely be reported. But if they're just saying things like, you know, I support the clan or something like that, then, you know, have the conversation if they're like, you know, out there with that ideas and stuff, then maybe in that relationship. Do you think the government is doing a good job in protecting people's free speech? Well, free speech and hate speech, right? I don't know, man, I'm really torn on that because right, you look at like what they've been doing. So first of all, I want to make it clear. I don't support hate speech or anything like that, right? But I do believe that people should have the right to like, let's say you support Palestine with this current situation. Should you be able to speak your views and support of Palestine? And should I be able to speak views and support of Israel, right? And I think that the government, it's coming out now that they've tried to censor people on social media platforms and stuff. And I don't know how I feel about that. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's a very dangerous road to go down when you start censoring people's speech based off, maybe they have views that you don't agree with. Like, is that dangerous? So it's not for me to decide. So that's a very good question on if you think the government's doing a good job in protecting free speech, because it's coming out now at least some of the stuff that I've been reading where they've been trying to censor people. So I don't agree with that. I think people's views, different opposing views should be heard and expressed. But yeah, I don't know. I don't appreciate the hate speech. Yeah, we're talking about like the nuances between free speech and hate speech. And like, is there a line? I think you need to really, really define what hate speech is, right? And what free speech is because, you know, if, and I'm going to say this, you know, it's like politically hot topics, right? Is it hate speech to say that there are only two genders? Is it like, I don't know. Like, is that for me to say, you know what I mean? Or for the government to say, because some people would agree with that. And some people are very against that, right? So does that, is that hate speech though? Or is that just me having a different view than you do? Because you might believe there are 30 of them and I might believe there's only two. I can get along with you just fine. You know, your views are your views. But then it's like, when does it become violent or cause harm? So my new question, I got one or two more questions for you. So you know what dog whistles are in terms of hate speech? A dog whistle in terms of hate speech. So a dog whistle is a coded phrase that alludes to something that could be a more violent form of hate speech. There's a specific statistic quoted by white supremacists from an FBI document released like 10, 15 years ago, which they take out of context to say that black people commit the majority of crimes. But they just say that as a couple numbers. The same way that Nazis might say 1488, which references that specific white supremacist phrase, that dog whistles that go out to other violent extremists would count as hate speech? Yes, I would say that something like that would probably count as hate speech. But again, you'd have to define clearly what is hate speech. And then I think you even need to go further and be like, well, what's it like? How do you prove that what you're saying and hearing or what I'm saying in your hearing is actually a dog whistle? Does that make sense? That's exactly how they're used is to try and get around that and prove, oh, I wasn't actually saying that. Yeah. My other thing, have you ever heard the term fighting words before? Fighting words? Yeah. Did you know that's actually a legal thing in specific states in this country, that fighting words are something people can be prosecuted for saying? If a fight was caused due to fighting words, the people aren't at fault for fighting. Or the person who said those words is at fault for starting a fight. Is that like some of those old laws? Yeah, it's an old law, old law. Do you think that's a good law? It depends. You know, again, you know, what is free speech and what isn't free speech? What is your definition of fighting words? You know what I mean? You might be highly offended by something a phrase someone says, I might not be. So, yeah, I'm glad that's not up to me. Is starting a fight okay under free speech? If you say words that are meant to start a fight or make someone angry enough to attack you? I don't think so. You know, like, but, you know, on the flip side of that, we should be adults, right? And somebody's saying something we don't like, whatever, man, and walk away from it, but we don't do that. Yeah, so, yeah, but like in Vermont, like there's disorderly conduct and stuff like that. So, you know, yes, like if I'm, you know, saying things that are meant to antagonize you in a public spot and make you fight, like you could be charged. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you have a good prosecutor, hopefully it would be charged with that. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. All right. What's your name? Jake. Jake. I'm Louis. Louis. Louis. I'm Sam. Sam. Nice to meet you guys. All right. So we are talking about free speech and hate speech, and we're wondering if you guys have a definition of what you think free speech is. I think, so free speech is expressing what you think, but why respecting the others? For me, it's really important. What he says pretty much. I agree with what Louis says. Yeah. I'll say. Cool. So call free, free thinkers. Yeah, like anything offensive and like kind of, yeah, I guess targeting people for certain reasons, like at them. But then I guess some, some people might find something offensive when others don't. So that is subjective. But in general, I'd say there's definitely like, like everyone can agree on, you know, places that are like, you know, yeah, most, most situations that most everyone will be like, that's like, definitely hate speech. Yeah. Did you, so you're all from different countries. Did you guys know that in the United States hate speech is not illegal? Yeah. I heard this for a French man and a Dutch man, very, very shocking things getting said to others. That's purely just insulting the others. And this is in French. In France, we have something that we say your liberty starts with ends where the liberty of the other starts. And I feel that in America, that's really different. I would agree. So what would y'all do if you heard hate speech? Like, first and foremost panic, I think on even being honest. I think when I've like witnessed it at me or like just generally like out and about like, I don't know. I think not everyone always knows what to do in the situation. And you can very easily walk away and go, fuck, why didn't I say the right thing? But like, also, it like, if I have got like my head screwed on properly, probably just have a go back. I just tell you to fuck off. I think like, maybe that's not very eloquent. And like, you know, maybe if I was like, if I really had my head screwed on, I'm like, try and like, taught them down and do a bit of like a peace talk thing. But I'm not always, I'm not often about that too far. So yeah. My first reaction was will be to be shocked at first. And or I will like to ignore the people because that's not really, if someone has a hateful speech, I wouldn't really take an account because it has no real arguments. And secondly, would be to react or say they're just basically denigrating someone. And that's not possible. Just having, trying to speak up, even if it's difficult, but that's not always, sometimes you just need to ignore these people because they just want attention. Yeah, for me, it would depend on the situation. Like whether I thought, you know, let's say if it was at uni versus if it was somewhere on the street at 3am on the way home, I think how I would react would depend. So like if it was in a situation where it would feel like, you know, less of a dangerous one, then I'd definitely be more likely to kind of try and explain to the person why what they're saying, you know, is wrong and how it's making someone else feel, whoever the hate speech is about or whatever, you know. Whereas if it was like, if it was kind of somewhere outside at night in a situation I didn't think would be, you know, I probably wouldn't say anything and probably be like, let's get out of the situation. But yeah, it depends. Alright, thank you all for your answers. Fried chicken and some french fries. I'm getting way too cold, y'all. And we have fries and chicken now. Who are the people down there? Was it like... Gibles giblets. Shout out then, this is like delicious. And yeah, I've realized that hate speech, kind of bad. Like... I agree. Come back to me. I also know now to not say hateful things to KP or else I get punched in the face. I learned that the cops don't know that much about what the Nazis are doing. And... Oh, I shouldn't eat fries like a fucking pig with my mouth. Have a good one, folks. Most people do not want to talk to us. Which is understandable because this is a very scary topic. They blesses. Yeah, maybe. But why are they so afraid? The end. Brooke, what do you have to say? Um... Yeah. I agree. I think that this is a tough topic to talk about. But it's important. And it's kind of the first time I'm really thinking about it too. And I don't know how I would answer our questions. But I think people who decided to talk with us had some really interesting perspectives and good points. And... Yeah, I hope that we can talk to some more people in the future. Thanks. That was fun.