 President Mohamed Buhri vows not to restructure Nigeria. An international press center says amendment of legal bills is an attempt by the government to criminalize journalism in the country. This is plus politics and I am Justin Akanonia. President Mohamed Buhri has vowed that his administration will not restructure the country. He warns that those agitating for separation and campaigning for restructuring are naïve and ignorant of war. And speaking on the ban on opium grazing, the South East chairman of the Mijete-an-La-Kartel-British Association of Nigeria Makban, Ghidado Siddiqui, has said the ban on open grazing by the governors of southern Nigeria will remain ineffective until an alternative to open grazing is provided for the herders. This is a socio-political-regional organization such as Afeneferi Pandef and the Christian Association of Nigeria, KEN, rose against the federal government insistence on recovering a grazing root for herders in the country. Now joining us to discuss this is Ken Robinson, the national public secretary of Pandef and architect Idris Bauer, assistant national secretary general of the Mijete-an-La-Kartel-British Association of Nigeria Makban. Many thanks for joining me, gentlemen. Thank you for this opportunity one more time. All right, let's just get straight to the business of restructuring. The president has been in the news since the weekend over this issue of restructuring. I'm saying those who are actually calling for restructuring do not understand what exactly they are asking for and they are just naive. I'll start with you, Ken. Robinson, when you heard that, how did that really hit you? It's very disappointing to hear the president of the federal republic of Nigeria speak in that manner. This is the president of the political, I mean, the president of the country and supposed leader of the All Progressive Congress, the ruling party, that two years ago constituted a committee to look at restructuring. That committee, as we all know, was added by the governor of Karduna State, and the committee submitted reports with some very acceptable recommendations. And the president being the leader of the political party that did that in the interest of Nigeria. We are surprised that he will come to say that those asking for restructuring are naive. This clearly shows that this presidency is dishonest, that this presidency is incoherent, and the APC ruling political party is a confused group of people. And we say this with all sense of responsibility. We know that the statement of Mr. President was made by a representative at an event in Zaria, Karduna State. And it is even more disturbing that the president will send someone to Karduna State at the launch of a peace foundation. I will go to make those kind of statements. We didn't hear him talk about how to address and deal with the bandits that have made kidnapping a sports and then making it an enterprise. And every day we have school children being kidnapped and people being harassed and livelihoods being destroyed. But this is the president that will go to that kind of environment and talk about threatening war and the destruction of Nigerians who are doing legitimate businesses in various parts of the country. It is disappointing, it is unacceptable, and it is least expected of the president of the federal republic of Nigeria. And we highly condemn that statement. We ask Mr. President to apologize to patriotic Nigerians who are profiling solutions to the problems of the country instead of making very uncomplementary statements against well-meaning Nigerians. Alright, let me come to your right now, architect Eidris Bauer. Specifically, the president said that those who are asking for restructuring do not even understand what they are requesting for. In your opinion, let me get straight to it now. What does restructuring mean to you and what is your stand concerning this issue of restructuring of Nigeria? Good evening everybody, good evening listeners. It is my pleasure of having me on your program evening. First of all, I will once, you see, I'm not a stock-based of the government. However, I will want people to really talk about restructuring and restructuring, or not restructuring. What do you understand by restructuring of the country? Now, we talk about the autonomy of local governments. Some people will come out openly to deny the local government autonomy and to deny the restructuring of the assembly's autonomy and to deny the judiciary's autonomy. Yet you come out to talk of restructuring. If you are talking of restructuring, fine. In what aspect do we restructuring Nigeria? We have the national assembly members elected and they represent each and every person in this country. And I believe they are competent enough to represent our own interests to discuss it at their own level and to make proper recommendations to government for its citizens. If we continue to crack and overdrive these issues, when you look at the problems you are facing as mentioned, now I don't think we are really helping ourselves. I don't think we are helping the country. People need to really come out and move forward and look at really what we want. Let's identify these problems. Let's see how we can solve these problems. Now, part of this we are in democracy. We elected our members. We elected our citizens. We come and represent our citizens at that level. Now, why don't we allow them to discuss those issues and make proper recommendations? And then we look at how as a nation we can make something good out of it. So that we now save our country from all this argument, from all this killing, all this rubbish happening all over the country. I think we are really getting out of all these problems. All right, architect Bauer. To see how we can agree and how we can work together. We cannot want to drag this country forward. Okay, speaking of moving the country forward, architect Bauer, if I can get a word in edge wise right now. Speaking about taking the country forward, specifically, you said we should come to a round table and sort this issue once and for all. But in your opinion, I really want to be distinct right now. In your opinion, are you saying restructuring is not what we need at this particular time? That's not what I said earlier. You see, people just come up, come out of the meeting and talk about restructuring. And you see, what are we going to discuss? For example, yes, if restructuring is given to local government, I believe once we give the local government, to be able to control the issue of security, we are having in this country at the first level because that is the government at the grassroots. The local government will be able to bring to this head the community leaders at their own level. Possibly, the local government at that level. So if that's the kind of restructuring. But you see, when you talk of restructuring generally, possibly there are issues that you will want us to see as a nation. I have a bad feeling about that. Alright, okay, fine. Thank you so much, architect Mbawa. Let me bring in Mr. Ken Robinson again into this particular discourse. The architect has seemed to have the issue of concentrating power to various levels and so government can be closer to the people. That is his main state on this particular issue. But then again, one of the points of the president's race, I just want us to see if we can analyze it a bit. He said that those convincing for restructuring are naive and ignorant of war. If I have to put it differently, can we infer that the president is saying that either restructure that we might be having for some sort of war in the country? Let me say that Idris Mbawa, architect Idris Mbawa just gave voice to a narrative that has been put forward by the presidency in the recent days. It was the same narrative that Mr. Shu Bello made at Kaduna, I mean Zarya Kaduna state. And it is funny that people will be talking about local government autonomy. People will be talking about judicial autonomy. It's even very offensive that this presidency should talk about autonomy for judicial and knowing they are reckless disregard for the rule of law. But that's not the matter. The presidency and the likes of Idris should understand that the issues we are discussing about is not local government autonomy. In the first place, local government should have no place in the constitution of Nigeria. There is no federation in the world, a true federation where local government system is part of the constitution of the federal government. No. Local government is the business of the states and the local government, the 774 local government areas listed in the constitution is part of the restructuring we are talking about. It's a fraud to list those local government areas in the constitution. There should be a sponge. Local government administration, creation and financing is purely a business of the states and the presidency has no rights at all under the law. The constitution of Nigeria to talk about local government area, autonomy is a fraud to bring it up at this point. The restructuring we are talking about is that there are 78 items in the exclusive list of the military imposed 1999 constitution. There is a concentration of power at the center. This constitution, this military imposed fraud constitution makes the president of Nigeria a God of Nigeria. He could wake up one morning and if he likes your face, he could make you a billionaire. If he wakes up one morning and he wants that for our state to mind their goals, he could create a presidential fiat for our state to mind their goals, refine it and then make themselves multi-billionaires. That is the Nigeria we are existing and that is what we are saying enough of that discriminative presidency empowered by the constitution of Nigeria. It's not just about President Muhammad Bawari, any other president with the kind of disposition that Muhammad Bawari has will behave in the same manner. And we are saying that enough of that kind of country, the system is against progress. This constitution is against unity. It's against cohesion. It creates disaffection. If Nigeria does not restructure, they stack reality. And we say it with all sense of responsibility that Nigeria will restructure itself. And the sooner the Nigerian government understands this fact, they should stop playing the ostrich. The realities are clear and it's obvious that things are not working. People are disaffected. Look at the presidency, the appointments in Nigeria. Look at the balance of power. Now the National Assembly, they are talking about, they will easily bring it up because they know that it is as lopsided as every other thing in Nigeria. It's lopsided in their favor so they could bring it up at any time we talk about restructuring. And very soon the people of Southern Nigeria will occupy that National Assembly and our people will say if there is no restructuring that National Assembly will not see. And I'm saying this on television with all sense of responsibility because we need to salvage Nigeria. We need to save Nigeria. Those who are calling for restructuring are patriotic Nigerians who want the progress and future of Nigeria to be secured. Alright, thank you so much for your position. But let's get into other issues that came up over the weekend which one of them was that of the issue of a directive on the grazing routes which the President Mazakster, the Attorney General of the Federation, mailed me to check on. In as much as a lot of reactions have trade that particular development which most people are saying that there were never any grazing routes. I just want to get the position of Makban on this particular matter of open grazing system in Nigeria. How about the issue of the grazing areas and stoppings? I think just like what I brought to you today, I believe those people calling for restructuring are talking about it so that at the end of the day we are going to have a very peaceful and very progressive country that any body can be proud of. And if that is the issue, then I don't see any reason why. The pastoralists, they are Nigerians. Over the years, right from the time of the colonial regime, the pastoralists have moved from the north, south, during the dry season, and moved up north during the rainy season. Yes, I agree, time is changing. There are lots of the problems now and there needs to change this. But one thing people need to understand is that these are practices that cannot be changed overnight. I think even we will be compared to ourselves. For example, in 1997, I wrote Protect Sensation, a case study for setting the Romantic Hula in Astralia. I used to tell you this over 20 years ago that I made that reason. And because I personally felt that this movement is not the best option and I know time is gone when this thing will come to an end. But it's not something that just some people will come and say, we have banned... If you have banned open grade, what do you expect the pastoralists as Nigerians moving with their country? What do they do with their country? And also, let us also have in mind that these cows that are moving around, both of them are sick. We use these cows, we use their heads and skins before the time of the pandemic. One of the major revenue performance at that time. And I don't think it's proper for us now because we have reached the level of development to now forget all what the pastoralists have put in this course. And today we don't want to stop it today at the end. What we are saying at past mass, yes, we said grazing stuff, yes, ranching. What is ranching? Ranching areas are the number of grazing areas put together in a large area. And that large area is a grazing area because you cannot take a ranch and put it at the centre of Labours or Abuja. So you have to take the ranch and put it somewhere in the bush. And if I have 20 ranching in that area, then it's qualified area to be a grazing reserve. And if I understand the sound of the presentation, what they are saying is that if you have a grazing reserve in Bautista, for example, we have another one in Oyo it says that we should be able to dig between grazing area A and grazing area T while government is making effort to do that. You seem to be alluding to grazing. All right, if I have to both in right now, you seem to be referring to grazing road. You talked about grazing area A, B and that. But in recent, if you go back to the nation's history, these grazing routes never existed. Are you saying right now just because there is a modernity and Nigerians have actually moved to civil ways of living that these pastoralists should be allowed to just grace freely to people's farms even when they have been records and of course reports of people being attacked in their own lands and of course in their own farms. I want to authentically tell you alone Yeah, go ahead, we can hear you. I want to authentically tell you that the grazing route has existed in this country and in the sense of this country because myself as a pastoralist it's interesting to note that I have taken my attention to one part of the country to another. Yes, I realized that it was not any better between and I settled down and I decided to go into other things. Now I'm practicing ranching. I'm practicing ranching right now. And what I'm saying, I started practicing ranching about 20 exactly 2001 and I want to assure you this is the case now. I have not reached 50% of the ranch. Now you are telling the pastoralists stop today and start ranching. How will they do that? Government is not intervening because last time when the federal government started the issue of intervening so many people criticized that. Now are you saying that the children of this normal the pastoralists said they should be abandoned because of those things. They should just be left aside because if the government goes to this they should be abandoned. Remember, don't have any probability. We've gotten your position right now concerning alternatives and all of that. But then you said something, I just want us to stay on that for a bit. You said that before now that they have been grazing roots in Nigeria specifically who established these grazing roots that you talked about? Go to the history book. This grazing roots started before independence during colonial times. In fact most of the grazing reserves that we have because we have quite a number of things that have even been gazetted. And I know few years back there was a time when even federal government intervened in trying to it has to do with the grazing areas and stuff. All what we are saying, whether this thing exists or not. But for peace to reign, for us to move forward for us to carry these pastoralists along as our own they are also Nigerians. For us to make them to have sense of belonging. To be able to carry them along not to carry them along. We carry them along to also support them. Now in this we are enjoying this issue of insecurity. Because even the Pula and the pastoralists they are cutting. And if you see not any impact from government or the government if you look at them and see are they just coming. My worry is that if we continue this way these pastoralists continue to multiply I assure that in turn, they are going to put a bigger problem to me and you and them. And in order to set that kind of a problem, let us look for alternatives. See them as ours. Provide some social amenities. All right. Thank you so much. If we provide these amenities to them, over 70% of these facilities are on their own. All right. Thanks for your position. We appreciate it. We need to get Mr. Ken Robinson's position on that. We thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. Now, you have had the position of Magban on this issue of recovering a grazing route. And he says before now, there has been grazing route. I really want to know how you react concerning that. And maybe the way forward in all of this dilemma as it is. Justin, I will ignore the overlooked comment on claim on grazing routes because those who should know, governors and some other authorities in law have said that they don't exist. So let's overlook it. But Idris has made some comments that I think are understandable. No one is thinking of, there is none of us, the governors and all those in the southern Nigeria. There is no illusion about the fact that people cannot transform from open grazing to ranching in the week. That's understandable. The offensive part and what has brought up all these talks is about the arrogance and the disrespect, the respectful manner in which Maitiala and some other elements in northern Nigeria make statements concerning these issues. When they use the words must, you must do this. Nobody's under anybody. We are not slaves of any other person. We are equal Nigerians. We have contributed more to the development and growth of this country than any other region in the country. So when they make those arrogance statements, it becomes offensive and people tend to react. The ban on open grazing is the settled matter. Now they can appeal to governors and traditional institutions and leaders of southern Nigeria. In the country where there is understanding, where there is mutual respect, where there is not some level of alcohol, these issues could have been easily handled. The government is talking about building ruga and building settlements for us men. Are you going to also build settlements for farmers and settlements for fishermen? Modern settlements with schools, health centers, are you also going to do that? What is good for the land? That is also good for the goods. If you're doing it for farmers and you should do it for fishermen, the government should be inclusive and then the ban is in place, then you can now approach authorities for conversation and discussions with mutual respect. Not when you stay in one obscure place and then you go on camera and then you make statements as if people are under you and use words like most and distressful words and then you come to think that this is a country, we are in a democracy. The people have rights and you must respect our rights, but we appreciate the fact that he has made and I think that they should now speak to our people in a respectful manner, make very sincere opinions and there could be understanding, but that understanding must be based on also understanding from them that there are issues that cannot continue. You cannot continue to every month share 57% of oil resources when you contribute nothing and then the Niger Delta, the South side that contributes about 87% gets 20%. That's the destruction we're talking about in that kind of situation. We are not ready to discuss with you until you come to terms with us when it was gone up and cocoa, they were taken about 50% derivation was about 50% and then the national descent has shared about 30% and then 20% was distributed to the other states. Now it is the other way around and 13% is given to us. That's your denying us 87% or thank you, Mr. Robinson, we must have sincere conversations and then people can consider the appeals that would sincere appeals that will come from them because we know that people cannot transform immediately from from open grazing to ranching in a week or in a month. Is that precise? All right, thank you. Indeed, it might or it will take some time before we can actually transit from open grazing to ranching. We have been looking at the issue of restructuring and, of course, the issue of open grazing and the claims to reclaiming open grazing routes in Nigeria and we have had Ken Robinson, a national publicity secretary of Vampanthef and, of course, architect Idris Bawa, assistant national secretary general of the Mi'eta Alakato Breaders Association of Nigeria, Macban. Well, thank you for staying with us. We'll take a short break now and when we return, we'll discuss how a man then certain media laws can affect John Lizard. We'll be right back. Stay with us.