 Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. Good morning, everyone. You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, but you cannot become a German or Turk or Japanese. But anyone from any corner of the earth can come to the United States and become an American. We'll come back to a nation of immigrants, a bi-weekly talk show program featuring the lives of immigrants, knowledge, diversity, and inclusion, created by St. Tank, Hawaii, and the Kingsville Law Office. We invite renowned immigrants to discuss their life stories, immigration adventures, and their contributions to cultural diversity. Today's guest is our good friend, Miss Yun Chen. Yun Chen has a very interesting biography. She started her education and work as an engineer. And then later, she became an artist. Miss Yun graduated from the University of Science and Technology in China, which is a very prestigious technology university in China. She came to the United States, received a master's degree in computer science, and then she worked for Motorola, or as an engineer and a program manager. After working in the United States for over 10 years, she returned to China to study art at the Central Academy of Fine Arts. In the past 10 years, she has translated one of the most important art history books, Art Things 1940, and she has been a parent and created art shows on various mediums. Today, we are very honored and very pleased to have Yun to join us. Welcome. Hello, Ni Hao. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. Thank you very much. I found your career path very interesting, because I found some similarities between our career choices. I started as an artist, and now I'm a lawyer. And you started as a scientist, now you're an artist. When my friends and colleagues ask me why you change from art to law, my standard answer is I'd love to talk about art with lawyers, and I would love to talk about law with artists. And what's your answer when people ask you why you change from science to art? I would say there is no barrier between science and art. Art is the form of science, and science is the form of art. I started art because of society at that time. When I went to college, that was late 1980. China is opening up, it's reforming, and the economy is growing. Everybody wants to study science, because that's something that can get you a good job, right? So I did. I spent five years in university of science and technology of China. I started basically, I studied quantum physics. I have learned many ways to do experiments, to how to get results, to how to get materials, to how to get a project done. I don't think there's any barrier, because I used them when I turned my focus to art. Well, actually, that was not totally the story. The seed of art was planted in me when I was very little. My father is an economic scholar, and he's also a calligrapher and artist. When I was very little, he taught me Chinese painting, not just by teaching me how to paint. He actually showed me how to see the world as a picture. And how to observe the world as an artist. So those ways of thinking and philosophies has been always in my heart. So it's never changed. So when the chance, when the opportunity came, I would go to the art school and learn art. Amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing. When I became a lawyer, when I went to law school, I always hear this expression that law is a science. And the more I study, the more I practice, the more I agree. And obviously, my art education didn't work out, but I'm very pleased to see that you are becoming a bridge between science and art. You and I get to know each other because of a mutual friend, Professor Jonathan Fenberg, my academic mentor, my friend for 22 years, and you happen to be his key translator of his seminal book, Art Things 1940. And how did you come across this book? And why did you decide to translate this book? It's a very, very big book. I, when I was a graduate student and Professor Fenberg, I translated it, but never published it. I can hardly imagine the tremendous work you put into to get translated. And I read your translation and have to say it's very feasible, very accurate, and it's quite elegant as well. Thank you so much for the encouragement. I feel so lucky to have the opportunity to translate such a great book. As the book name suggests, it encompasses work, it encompasses the work of art history from 1940 and forward. It's just, it's just like when the first time I read the English version of it, I love it. I was in art school, just as you described in the beginning. I went to the Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing in 19, 2012. And this book project came to me in 2013. I was studying art history, including modern art history. So the very reasoning of doing this project is because I want to learn. People once said you want to read a book. You only really want to learn something translated because it's translating part is a very slow process. You're not just translating the context. You're actually writing it in a way that people can understand in your culture, in your language, but not between the original authors' purpose of writing it. So that's become a challenge for me. But again, as I mentioned, I want to learn in the very beginning to the modern arts as part of my learning process. So we start translated. It's a 600-page book. Yes, it's a big book. It took us a year to translate it. And I even joked about it. Like every one hour, I calculated the characters I translated, including editing them later, as well as 300 characters an hour. That's how slow that was. I'm glad it turned out right. And people love it. Another thing about this book is because it's not just one general art history book. It's a book for academic theory. That plays some challenge for me. And I love challenge. We were trained as scientists. We explored new things. We tried to solve problems. So that's also a reason drive me to translate this book, even if it's non-jewelry. I'm glad it's published. I'm glad Dr. Feinberg liked it. And you like it as well. And as a matter of fact, we become a bridge between Dr. Feinberg and me and you. Otherwise, we won't have this talk today. Yes. I believe that everything happened for a reason. I really appreciate you translating this book with scientific precision. Because Professor Feinberg has these, the very strong of psychoanalysis, sociology, and a philosophical background. His language is very sophisticated. It's not like Arthur Dental or some other historian has been translating to Chinese or a simple and straightforward. But Professor Feinberg, every sentence, every paragraph carries a lot of weight of philosophy, psychoanalysis, and sociology. So I really appreciate your efforts. Now, you didn't stop as an art translator. You studied art, you translated art history, but you also practice art. And you draw and you give lectures on art. Tell us a little bit more about your career change after you become some kind of full-time independent artist and art researcher and what your schedule looks like. My schedule, okay. First of all, why and when I changed my career. As you mentioned, I studied science and computer science in U.S. After I graduated from a recent state university, after I got my computer science degree, I went to law school. I went to Chicago. I worked for Motorola for over 10 years as an engineer and program manager. And then in 19, actually, 2011, I decided to go back to China. My husband has started a business there and we decided to spend some time in China, in Beijing. So life is a never-changing course. After living in U.S. for so many years, I didn't see anything strange to me. And China has changed at that time. And I continued working for Motorola in Beijing for about a year. And then our section by Motorola, our section was acquired by Google. That was a turning point for me. I have to make a decision. Do I continue to work for a tech company or I can spend time to pursue my childhood dreams? So my childhood dream was to study art in art school. And the Central Academy of Fine Arts was so close to where I live. I feel just like it's natural. It's given. It is so natural choice for me to spend full-time learning. So I spent two years in school learning art history and art market. And so that's when I started my journey in art. I know I talk about the very beginning when I was a child, this art seed was planted by my father. So he actually, my father passed away two years ago, he taught me those basic skills, how to draw, how to write, how to observe the world. Those things never faded away. Even I might not change from China to US, to US and back to China. It's always there. So whenever the soil is there, when the temperature is right, when the environment is good for me to grow, I start growing. I start exploring my interests in art. Thank you very much. I noticed some of your artwork is very playful. But I'm not sure I can say that the last picture, the last drawing I saw, the PCR testing, COVID-19 testing was playful. It was completed in 2021, I believe. And could you tell us a little bit about these drawings? The hospital drawing? Yeah, this one. Oh, yeah, one. Well, they're doing the PCR testing. The PCR is talking about the hospital, right? Oh, yes. Yes, it's the PCR testing. That was, yeah, that's a scene from a hospital series. So during the heyday of COVID-19 in 2020, my father was really, really sick. He had a very bad stroke seven years ago. And let him not have the ability to speak and other bad symptoms. So it was very difficult for everyone in the hospital. I was at the hospital. I spent about six months accompanying him in the hospital during his treatment and his last days there. So that picture, that picture actually was my husband. He came to, he was still in Beijing. I was in Chengdu, my hometown. You know, taking care of my father. So my husband came. He couldn't see, see the, you know, his father, you know, he had to take that testing. So that was like a regular scene. You see that every day, every moment in the hospital. Everybody has to do that. So I just figured, you know, when I was wandering around in the hospital, talking to doctors, nurses, caregivers, and observing things, that was the very common thing I want to capture. Well, you did a very good job, I have to say. And, but that drawing somehow made me feel very sad. We, we don't know where this pandemic will end in China. It ended in the United States. The president and Dr. Fauci already announced. And, but when, or how it will end in other parts of the world, we have, we have no idea. But now change gears to a more lightly, you know, a subject. And you have exhibited your artwork in California. And did you also exhibit your artwork in China or other places? I did. I exhibit in China, not in a big way. It just like I was still during my process of making the art. When I came to California the end of last year, and I started trying to, because I have this 400 plus single leaf joints and the about 30 series. So as I show into the local library in California in Palo Alto, I love it. And so why don't you, you know, exhibit here. And I also have my friend and who is my, also my classmate. She reserved a month of exhibition. And she said, well, why don't you just exhibit yours? So we love it. So actually the one month exhibition extended to two months. So that's the first one. I call it the splendor of leaves. So this theory I studied seven years ago. Seven years ago when I was, I think I was waiting for my son in school. It was a fall season and the jingle tree leaves turning yellow. And that shape, the shape of fine, remind them the Chinese painting, Yara. We have this fine painting for a very, very long time. So, and also for me, I grew up in a city full of jingle trees. And so I'm very familiar with this plant. So I started using this medium, jingle leaves as a medium to create my art. It becomes very natural and very natural. And as a, well, as a science student, I experimented in the very beginning and trying different pigments, different way of mixing colors. And eventually I find a way to take what's in my mind. So I had this in waste me. So I expect about two months and they love it. And then the war broke, the Ukraine war broke. So I continue working on jingle leaves. I think in March this year, after I finish, and they wanted to expand more. So they started putting on the wall, actually in the library in April. So I thought it's going to be one month, but after six months until now, they're still exhibiting them. I want to ask why? So no, we don't want to take it off until the pieces here, until the war is over. The reason for that because the topic of manures is about the one piece. Done, done really beautiful. And you have a very unique sense of sensitivity to color and composition. As an art historian myself, I really appreciate that. But I also feel a strong sense of China'sness in your artwork. And your artwork is obviously modern, it's very contemporary, and it's very relevant to the current affairs. But I still feel there is a very strong cultural implication. You and I belong to the same generation, the so-called Generation 89. You went to university in the late 1980s. I was in high school in the late 1980s and went to college right after 1989. So both you and I grew up or educated in the cultural renaissance of 1980. And you went to one of the best universities in China, the China's MIT, the University of Science and Technology. And one of your university leaders is a universally revered scholar and a public figure, and which I deeply respect as well. So tell us about the value system or the cultural background behind your artwork. When you paint, when you draw, what identity do you assume? Because you create most of your artwork in the United States as a Chinese American artist. Very good question. It's a freedom to express yourself. When I draw, I feel a big connection between me and outside the world. It is the way as Dr. Feinberg said in his book, Art since 1940, he mentioned that art is a way of thinking. I truly agree with him, and you feel much more and more and more agree with him when you grow up and when you start practicing art. I think the actual work I did and you think I did in America is a non-score of a winter theme. I did that when I was working for Motorola. I lived in Chicago for over 10 years, and I endured it cold-less. It was really, really cold during winter. So the winter is very long. I feel like six months, at least three to four months of slow coloring ground. I drove every day to work and I saw this white world around me. I was like, gosh, I never saw that in Chengdu, that's the southern city, that's where I grew up. We don't see much slow. So I saw this slow. Well, my artist thinking came out, he said, oh, okay, how can I express myself? Of course, paint and paper. That's the best way to depict the snow is using paintbrush. We did that in Chinese painting as well. And how do you depict such a long area of white world, long school? And the Chinese hand store of long school is a way to depict scenic landscape in a very grand way. And when we see this outside world in my hand, on the paper score, and you actually see this scenic view just coming out when you're scrolling around, when you're rolling up the paper, rolling up the score. So that was like a way, that's art form actually came from China. When I was little, I saw so many of them, so they just can become much aware for me to draw like that way. So as a matter of fact, my father, when he first time saw my winter scene drawing, he would say, oh, this is so much like Chinese and you are still Chinese artists. Even though you are drawing Chicago, you are drawing not church, you are drawing people skin. It's not Chinese in the traditional activities in the city, but you are drawing the world using very much Chinese technique. Yeah, I totally agree. And some of your drawings remind me of Chiang Yi, the silent traveler who draws the landscape of San Francisco, of Boston, and from a Chinese American perspective, it's very illuminating. Anyway, we are running short of time, but I do want to ask you two questions to end our interview. The question one is, who is your favorite artist? I think that might be too many, but anyway, I do want to ask you about this. And the second question is, we ask all of our distinguished guests, and if you were to give some advice to yourself in the 20s, time travel permitted, what would you say to yourself in the 20s? What's my favorite artist? I won't be hesitated. As my father, he gave me eyes to see the world as a picture frame, and also to see inside me how to express myself, how to, you know, and what art becomes a bridge between me and him, and you, and many others, and between our cultures. How can my work of jingling live as very oriental can be as exhibition here, and it still makes people understand and enjoy. In my 20s, what I think, I want to be more confident. I was actually, as a girl, not sure about myself, not confident of my look, how good it could be, how much time I just spent studying. I'm not as good as other my fellow classmates. As you mentioned, my university is quite hard to get in, even I was a top student in my class back in high school. When I got to my university, I was totally floored, because you can see those people, you know, coming from other province, they're just so good at studying science. I was not a very good student. I tried and had a very hard. I wish I couldn't be more confident for what I could, my own interest and the focus. I might be, you know, open up for more opportunities and then learning my insight coding earlier. Thank you so much. Well, what a pleasure to have you on the show and talk about the science and art. And our conversation really reminded me my favorite historian, Prof. Yun Shi, where I am is China. And China is always with us, with us Chinese Americans. And even in the United States, in Europe, and somehow we feel even closer to China. And this cultural identity is distinct and is deeply embedded in our cultural gene. And in every artwork we create, and I appreciate your taking the time to be on the show. I learned a lot. I really appreciate Prof. Jonathan Femberg introduced us together, and we can continue to explore collaborative opportunities. And I'm pleased to report Prof. Femberg will be on the show next month. And he is, I believe, third generation or the fourth generation. But we are very excited to have him on the show as well. Again, thank you so much for your time, Yun. And congratulations to your art work, and your public lectures in art. And be well, keep up your good artwork, and keep in touch. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Aloha. Thank you.