 Yeah, thank you Gavin very much and thank you everybody for attending, we'll go ahead and get started. We're encountering a little bit of technical difficulties so if a video doesn't play, bear with us. Our internet connection is just a little slow but I think we can work with it. What we're going to do for you today, we're going to give you a sneak preview of the MOOC that we've been developing over the last year. We just ran a pilot in June and we'll give you some feedback and let you see what our first participants thought about the MOOC. And Blackboard by the way sponsored the development of this MOOC which we're very grateful for. The MOOC is open and free for participants and we will at the end share how you can sign up for the two MOOCs that are upcoming and get updated information on the MOOC that you can share with your colleagues and take to your institutions. So the significance of inclusive online course design, we know it's important to have accessible online courses so that all students can access the content in online courses at the same time. So that students aren't waiting for accommodations and doing things that make it difficult for them to succeed in online courses. So it's really, really important that we let all students in online courses have an equal place at the table where they can share their ideas. And Erin, you were recently a student at the University of Montana, you have a pretty vivid experience about that. Yeah, I'm going to introduce you to one of the last classes that we talked about in class. All of the course materials were posted within Moodle. All of them were accessible documents. All the exams were done using Moodle courses and they were done created in an accessible way. For that part, I didn't have to request a single accommodation. I'm not asking for every single class handout at the same time as everybody else. I literally took the same exams at the same time as everybody else didn't have to request any accommodations. Great. So we had two overall goals there. You mentioned those. So yeah, so we had two really overarching goals for the design of the MOOCs that we did. So the first one was that we wanted to model inclusive practices so that participants would have a clear understanding of accessible online courses and delivering. And we also really wanted to provide a good example of creating an individual with an accessible online course. Great. And our target audience was K-12 educators and higher education audiences. But really anyone in industry and government, we've had a number of people come up to us in those areas that are very interested in accessible design. So whatever field you're in, there's something in the MOOC that can help you with your online training. So any of you guys from there, what's been to my lead and I present for previous Moodle MOOCs or previous Moodle world, you may have heard of talks about our 14 accessibility principles. It's a very basic principle. It's been a really good starting point for getting going on making your content accessible. One of those are creating a good heading structure, providing good alternative text for any of you guys. And creating distributed hyperlink in the property that you can look at and take as well. These four concepts really have been applied very consistently. And we'll talk more about kind of the consistency of the course later. But we really have a case in those two principles and applied them consistently throughout the course. We're trying to make this just as accessible as it could possibly be. And it's pretty good to do that. I'm pretty happy with how that's really done. So the MOOC is designed to be a moderated course. So you hear a study of structure engagement. Marlene and I are there. We are responding to forms. There's an opportunity for a live one-hour week office hour. We're hearing that there's no necessary buy-for-collaboration. So if you ask us any questions you may have about the content, or about just anything that we have about the MOOC, it's designed to take four weeks. It's a four-week moderated course. And the MOOC is completely free. So we're using a theme that Little Room created that's been released to the open source community. It's called SNAP. And in SNAP, the name of the course is a heading one. And it's always a link on every page and course. And then in the table of contents, you see our topics. So we have really six topics. Course overview, working with text, working with data, working with images, working with audio and video, and working with uploaded content. So we wanted to be very concise, and we didn't want 20 million topics. We wanted to keep it very concise so people could find their way around and get really succinct information. And even though we've developed this in modal rooms, it's really LMS-agnostic. And all the principles we cover pertain to any use of an LMS. So let's go into topic two, just like it's in preview, and we'll look at working with text. And I'm going to just open another tab just to get around that slow internet connection. So let me just go over the structure here. And every topic has the same structure. So we start out with an aspirational video that's about 60 seconds to help people engage with the topic and understand why it's important. So let me just play this real quick aspirational video. Text plays a major role in online course design. Thoughtful use of text can improve the reading experience and make course navigation clearer for everyone. Therefore, this topic examines properly structured text handings, text channels, and formats and distributed text properties. So people are focused now on why this is an important topic. Some people, we really tried to build universal design for learning and model that in this course. So sometimes Aaron doesn't like to watch videos. There's other people who'd rather just read the transcript. So we had a caption, but we also provided a way to hide-show the transcript in case somebody did not want to play the video or was in a location where they just would need sound going on and where they were looking at the mood. So that's consistent in all of our topics. And then we have three focus areas in every topic. You're seeing my editing tools, the pencil and edit section, because editing is automatically on for designers and staff. The students don't see that view, but you're seeing my building tools, which is totally fine. But notice in the aspirational video we talked about headings, text layout, and hyperlinks. And so we built sections, three sections in every topic for the three focus areas that are critical. I'm going to go into hyperlinks and show you how we built the MOOC on books. So here's the table of contents for this book. We started out every book with an introduction, and then we go down through clearly labeled chapters. We wanted people to be able to come back and read things specifically that they wanted to review and find it quickly and easily. So we were very concerned that we chunked our information and just didn't create great big long-throwing pages with 20 million things on one page. We also decided on using the word example, or examples in this case. And you can see in Chapter 4, 6, and 8 it has that example colon at the beginning. And that means that in those chapters there are video demonstrations of assisted technology working with, in this case, it's descriptive links. In this case of Chapter 6, it's URL, and in Chapter 8 it's non-descriptive links. So it's very easy. If somebody wants to go back and re-watch a video, our naming was carefully chosen so that people could quickly find those chapters. I'm not going to open a video just yet, though we will show you some. I just wanted to show you how we concluded. The introduction has a brief introduction and key terms always in every book. And then in the conclusion of every book we restated what we thought was important. And then we added an H5P interactive activity so people could test their knowledge before they even left the book. And to test your knowledge, H5P activity is just three simple questions. So do you want to say anything about H5P, Erin, and then I'll do the activity? Yeah. So I imagine most of everybody in here is probably familiar with H5P. It's going to be pretty popular. It's a great piece of TML-5 interactive activities that you can embed into websites or into learning management for things that allow you to do so. We contacted H5P and we were told that there are five H5P content sites that have been fully embedded for accessibility. And so we tried to take a picture to qualify for those throughout the course to test your knowledge activities. So the test that we have here, we've got three small questions. We have single, 20-step, which is where you have one response kit. We have multiple search, fill in the blank, and last comment. So if you get one book, they all have one H5P activity at the end and it varies depending on which book you're going to really make it last. It's a great way to protect your knowledge. Right. And we wanted to really increase engagement and interactivity, so that's why we thought we'd give this additional quick test your knowledge. This is a single choice question set, and I'm just going to work through this. What is the most important accessibility concern when working with hyperlinks? Hyperlinks should be descriptive. Hyperlinks should be similar in color and appearance. Hyperlinks should be similar in length. And hyperlinks should indicate if they link outside the current site. So, we haven't done the book, none of you have, but I'm going to click on the answer that I think is correct. I'm sure many of you would know that answer too. Hyperlinks should be descriptive. And it tells me with the green color and the check mark that I was correct. Then it moves me right on to the next question set. What is the problem with click here links? I'm sure you've all seen click here. Click here links take up too much time. Click here links take up too much space on the page. Click here links are small and too easily missed when using screen magnification software. Click here links make no sense out of context, such as in the screen reader links list. And click here links are read too quickly when using text to speech. And I'm going to select the third choice. Click here links make no sense out of context. And I'm correct, and it's going to move me right on to the next one. Which is a potential issue when using descriptive hyperlinks? Most applications do not support creating descriptive links. Descriptive hyperlinks lose their link properties when printed on paper. Users do not know how to use descriptive links. And it is difficult to rewrite content to use descriptive links. And the correct answer here will be that you lose the URLs when you do print them on paper. And this is a consideration with syllabi. If you put your syllabus in your online course, you can almost be sure that some people are going to want to print that out and highlight things and keep it with them. And you lose the URLs with descriptive links. So what we do is we just put the URL and print the page. If we're writing in Word and we right click on it and remove the hyperlink, because then it doesn't come up in a link list like Erin uses with the screen reader software Jaws. So just remember that descriptive links lose their link properties when printed on paper. So it told me I was correct and it said I got three out of three. So that's how those little activities work. They're very quick and interactive. So let me just give you kind of an overview now. I'll go back up. We have multiple means of navigation. You can navigate back to the homepage of the course by clicking on the title of the course. We also added a return to topic button. So this one will take me, whoa. This also will take me back to working with text. So we wanted people to be able to return to the topic if they wanted to. And then within the books, there's the table of contents and chapters and ways to navigate around through there. So we have six topics all in the MOOC. Three focus areas. Each with a book in the MOOC. So we have 16 books like you just saw in the MOOC complete with multimedia content. And we really try to emphasize the fact that using multimedia is a reinforcement of universal science and learning because you're using multiple means of representation. Students who get text heavy online courses. It can be really hard for some people with print disabilities or other types of disabilities. People who just have a hard time with straight text all the time. And you can see that we've strived, we tried to avoid clutter and streamline and really chunk things down so that people could easily go back and locate segments of information that they wanted to review. So, you know. So one of the things we really focus on in the design of this MOOC is consistency. We wanted it to be really straightforward to navigate and have a consistent experience of self-divide through the process of technology and driving. So our MOOC topic has three focus areas. It's very consistent. We pay special attention to make sure that our terminology is very consistent throughout the course. We always use the standard terms that indicate something. We go that way. And then we also, excuse me, and then we also wanted to make sure that people could navigate very consistently. So one of the things that we say here and it's a little bit similar to that is that we can navigate a specific screen that can make really consistent ways of getting around in the course wherever you need to go and where in the course. So one of the things that we found in the workshops and trainings that we did at the University of Montana was we do a two-screen presentation. So there are two screens. One screen you have on what? On Marlene's computer. This is the normal view that most folks are used to seeing. And then on my screen, you would see a specific technology being played. We would usually have screen reviews, screen magnifications, and high-collar contrasting angles when we would do those workshops. And they were very powerful and well-received because people, it helps that they could see, okay, here's how to create and accept the contact we're seeing on Marlene's and here's why you need to create what you're seeing on your screen. And that was a very powerful way of conveying that information that we really wanted to emulate and move. And so we did something thinking about it and the solution that we decided on was to provide a lot of multi-media content. So we have demonstration videos using a specific technology to run at the course. So in the course, we'll find demonstration videos of the course concept as they apply. We use a screen reading software. We use a screen magnification software. And in the course, we use speech-to-speech control, whatever you like to call it, in this case. So for this, we use JAWS for the screen reading, not just by screen scientific, but the screen reading, and dragging them to the screen by New York to provide those effects. So let's just show you a couple of the videos. I'm going to go to descriptive links, chapter four. And in this case, we took the JAWS icon from the company and we made a Dragon icon. So we are demonstrating both how descriptive links work with a screen reader and with a speech-to-pecs software program. So let's look at this. Using descriptive links will ensure that all users understand where the link will take them, regardless of how they choose to access it. For screen readers, it's important for links to be descriptive may not be read out depending on how they're navigated. I'll demonstrate. This page contains several descriptive links which could be understood by users of screen reading software, regardless as to how they navigate. First, I will read the whole sentences. In the context of the whole sentence being read, I am able to understand where the links will take me. Now, let's see if I navigate by pressing Tab. When I use Tab to navigate, only the title of the link is seen read. I can still understand where this link will take me even with only the title of the link being read. Now let's look at the links page. I'm going to read the whole sentence. Just like when using Tab, only the link titles are displayed here in the links list. However, since these links are descriptive, I can still understand where they are going to take me. Descriptive links are particularly important for the users of screen reading software, but they also improve the visual experience and help prevent confusion about a link's purpose. Descriptive links are a perfect example of how accessibility can improve the experience for all users. And let's look at the Dragon demonstration that Devin Armstrong, one of our colleagues, created for us. Descriptive links are ideal programming because the descriptive link takes you to activating the link with the only single command of Demonstration. Descriptive links are ideal for writing users because the descriptive links can be used to activate the link with the only single command of Demonstration. Wake up! Click on that and click on the button with the single command with the descriptive link that the user only has to provide a single command to activities and delivery. This provides the to explain how the individual is reading and not to be forwarded to provide to the user when the act is involved in. Erin also mentioned that we also show screen magnification for low vision users so that gives you a sense of how we're demonstrating how people interact with online content and some of the feedback we got from our pilot participants was they didn't know it was really eye-opening to see those kinds of interactions so you can see how we used multiple names of representation to get our ideas across and really lined up with Universal Design for learning. Let me go now to another book. Let's go to STEM content. This is, STEM content is in working with data so I'll go back to that book in just a minute but let's look at how we've worked with math. So here we used audio only and we showed how screen readers interact with math formulas so I'll play this one for you. I don't think I started that right at the beginning. Let me try that again. So that's a nice development that didn't used to be there a few years ago and we also work with sonification so I'll go to chapter 7 graphs and multiple names of representation and let's see here we have Erin you're going to talk about math tracks. Let me just swing down here and open the math tracks link while you talk about it. So this section of the STEM book is probably one of the most fun parts of the course to create. So on it we have charts and graphs and we also include long descriptions of and we have quantified versions so audio versions essentially on those graphs. All of this was generated using a single application and a free application of that because it's a bit old but it definitely gets the job done so it was called math track it was developed by math track while we got the site pulled up there and you can see it and it generated all three of these different communities of representation and it was able to generate the original charts and it was able to generate the helpful in that long description and it was able to generate that quantified version just personally and turning in the perfect cross threads before typing in a specific form or it generated all of that material for it. So you can see this was developed by NASA and it's been around for a while a lot of people may not know about it but it was the 2006 NASA software of the year runner up and it really had fun playing with it. I'm going to go down we also, I went to the library with a Photoshop image of the graph and created a 3D tactile object. Gosh, sorry about my booming voice here I usually don't boom I never want to boom we'll go past the parabola and we're going to go down to a graph generated from a data set so gosh excuse me I decided not to start with my mic let me play the sonification of this I'll put this one right down this is the 3D and it had an overall trend by the end where you could call that the text was getting lower so it was fluctuating but it was slowly moving down and here is the description or the alternative text that it generated for us really nice alternative text can really be it can take some work sometimes and it's really nice when a little tool like this generates your alternative text and then it gave us a data file and I'll just open this really quick and you can see the data that that was built on so that's provided some people may want to just interact with that and then here's the 3D tactile object and this is the actual object in my hand that we created because it's a fully online loop we had to photograph it and put it in a tactile version for feeling what that graph might feel like so that's a really that's been a fun part to the STEM content there is a really great project coming out of the University of Colorado Boulder on accessible simulations in science the STEM content and we're hoping to add some of their content with their permission to the MOOC for us the past year has been exploring accessible STEM content and working with our faculty in the sciences so we're really hoping to expand this part of the MOOC and always have new developments going on here in the MOOC so that it's kind of a living thing it's not just a static MOOC that never changes I'm going to go back to the homepage of the course and I'm going to go back into working with text our internet seems to be faster now so Erin talked earlier about how we have interactivity so after people see the aspirational video they go through the focus areas and read those books then there's activities within each topic and here is the first week of the course covers the course overview and working with text and we wanted to know right off the bat how many people wanted to earn certificates from the MOOC so we were prepared you can earn certificates and Erin will talk about that in just a little bit but we do have two certificates that you can earn by taking the MOOC then we had an assignment every week the assignment was done in the sandbox course so people who wanted to practice their accessibility skills or revise the course of their own in their own LMS or get a sandbox course on our site we gave them the option to get started on working with accessibility in this LMS or in their own LMS so during week one they would work with adding text into their practice course and it was up to them how much how little if they were just converting a course or creating new text and it was not required nothing is required of people it is all voluntary they can do what they choose to do and then here was the link to request a sandbox course people who requested the course then the last week of the MOOC we engaged them in a workshop activity where let's say I let's say I have a sandbox course I would evaluate three other sandbox courses and give people feedback and three other people within the MOOC would evaluate my sandbox course and give me feedback and then we look at those courses too so we had a mechanism for evaluating courses giving each other feedback people wanted to see other courses besides their own so that was our assignment every week was to work with the topics whatever the topic was text, images uploaded content whatever the idea was that they would practice them have a real audience to give them feedback then we also had a practice quiz in every topic and those are just fixed question quizzes but we really built a lot of feedback into those quiz questions so they're more like tutorials if you get the answer right great you got the answer right and here's the link to some additional information about this topic if you miss the answer then we gave them additional information about why that answer was not the correct answer so they were getting tutoring we built that ahead of time so during the actual live-truth delivery we were in the forums in the office hours but Moodle itself was doing the work in the quizzes for us because we spent quite a bit of time providing feedback in those quizzes and then here we use Blackboard Collaborate which is a highly accessible web processing system that was where we had our live office hour every week and people attended that and really wanted to chat and talk with us about things ask us questions and talk about situations at their institutions we were all in different time zones there were people in North America, South America, Europe and Asia who volunteered to be part of our pilot so a lot of people couldn't attend but some people were able to do that and select the time of the office hour through a trick activity then our forums we started out week one with Introduce Yourself and Erin will give you an account about how busy that forum was that was our busiest forum because we wanted to welcome each person to the course and then every week there was questions or comments and that was also heavily used because people wanted to ask us questions so that's a look at what a topic is the official video focus areas with very structured books with multimedia content and then our activities for engagement and probing deeper questions thank you okay so as Marley mentioned we just finished running our first pilot run of the MOOC and we did it in the month of June so for the forum we had 100 seats available we have some participation at 100 just because we wanted to get a pilot we wanted to get a feel for we're very glad we did a pilot it was a great experience so out of 100 seats available we managed to get 93 so good turnout there Marley mentioned the discussion forums the discussion forums is probably the hardest thing to keep up with in this course so we have 94 discussion forums in total within the various discussion forums that were there 45 of those were in the introduction forum alone so 45 of them and then we had 41 in the various questions and comments forums that we had and each of those thrilled on average between two and 25 so it was quite a bit of form one of our MOOC attendees met us last night at the reception we were able to meet in person and talk and I know there's other people that may be here that enrolled in the MOOC and it's really fun when you get to meet in person after you teach online as many as you know the quizzes as I mentioned there were six quiz opportunities five in each of the major topics and then we had a review quiz and the review quiz was six questions and we randomized the questions out of the whole question and you could take the review as many times as you wanted to get as much feedback as you wanted so they could take the review quiz once get a certain set of questions get some feedback and then take it again and get a whole new set of questions to get more feedback and just test their knowledge and people took advantage of that opportunity so I didn't say earlier we had an office hour available each week we did that three of the weeks in the MOOC so weeks two, three and four and so what we did in week one was we provided a choice activity in that choice activity we had a list of different times that we would be available and we gave the participants the option to pick the times that kind of worked out for them and then the time that worked for the largest participants was the time that we were going to have to use it for the outline office hour and of those 93 enrolled participants 46 requested sandbox courses I'm still looking through those courses and I'm going to download those and really analyze those courses some people requested the sandbox course and didn't do much but some people did a lot and some people really gave extensive feedback so it just varied by person totally voluntary they did need to have some content in their sandbox courses to participate in that workshop activity and let's go down and now those requirements are up on the screen in the air so Marlene mentioned earlier that we have two certificates that are available for in the MOOC we have a certificate of participation and a certificate of completion for the pilot out of the 93 participants that we had we had skipped because we went all the way to the certificate of completion and then we had another and we did all the requirements to get a certificate of participation with the certificate of completion we really had to kind of go through all of it so congratulations to the discussion forums you had to take the various places that were available in this process with a passing score and then you also had to do the workshop activity with the sandbox courses for the certificate of participation for the pilot at least we really just focused on the argument that it was going to be one but we're not going to think we're kind of considering revising it for the next round of the MOOC and we left the MOOC open it closed two weeks after the month was over so people had time to download their courses and keep them if they built them in our system or if they wanted to go back and review content or if they wanted to they needed to go back in and get their certificate of completion or participation so we gave them extra time to close the MOOC at the end of the month so people some people said that they wanted to retake the MOOC and they were looking forward to seeing the changes that we implemented so here's a little bit of feedback we wanted to share with you from the pilot the pilot we really learned a lot we don't have any just a brief overview for you of some things that we know we need to improve the familiar with SNAP and they were confused by the navigation I made a video I don't think people watched it how to navigate the course I thought it was really clear but apparently it wasn't so we either need to move that video until we won out of course overview and we know we just need to have some other people test it who have no familiarity with SNAP then there was a little confusion about requesting some of the workshop activity so we need to streamline that content because that's really meaningful work for people to engage in and we want to make sure that that has complete clarity there was also some need for clarification of terminology people didn't understand what we meant by ADO ADO is the text editor in Moodle and we love ADO ADO has really got some great accessibility features it might be using tiny MCE whatever so we just needed to do some clarification and we know we need to go back and make it more LMS agnostic right now it's very Moodle and Moodle Rooms-ish with some reference to be sure and check with your tech support team about what text editor you're using and what the features are there so we know we need to do that we thought we'd share just some quotes from participants during the last week of class and we asked them to give us some feedback and it was all positive they were such nice people we had people from Moodle HQ Helen Foster, Mary Kuch we had people from BlackWords we had educators and people from all over and they gave us some really nice feedback we just wanted to share with you three little quotes because our goal was to see do we really impact the design practices and do we really do that so the first participant quote is I'm extremely grateful for this eye-opening experience I have been teaching and designing online courses since 2007 I also facilitate a nine week rigorous course in online pedagogy and designing BlackWords and shorter courses in D2L and Canvas however this course has opened my eyes to all the things I need to improve upon in my design and help my faculty create far more accessible courses I'll go ahead and read the second one so the second one we had was I particularly enjoyed the videos of the assistive supplement in asking seeing the effects of poor design with a real wake-up call and making even more aware of the importance of making courses and of course material accepting the call and the last brief quote this course is very informative you have managed to take a large amount of very good information and make it easy to understand with you we'll open that up and we'll take you to our parking lot yes we were very happy with that so one of the big things we wanted from that pilot was getting all that feedback was to give a list of things, changes improvements we can make to the most and that's when we start earlier we want this to be a living that we want it to update, we want it to change there's always new technologies new advances in accessibility and we want this to reflect that so we created what we call the parking lot where we could list out all of the different things the updates, the changes that we want to make we prioritized those updates using what's called the Moscow Method which I promise I did not learn from such a you did and we sorted them by month for all 20 years would be nice, that type of thing I'm just going to highlight a couple of really important parking lot items that we have here that are definitely going to be there for the until release the biggest one we have with audio description we want to ensure that all the video content in the course includes audio description when you plan on working with each one you really have to get those audio descriptions to do we want to increase the automation in the course so we can scale up the size so for example when a student participates with requests for the sandbox Marlene and I actually had to go in into clues now so one of the things we would like to do is eliminate that so that's more automated so that more participants and then we want to some of the content that is one really specific one is to have more information about accessibility testing so we mentioned the workshop activity of the sandbox of course for one person to go and evaluate and that's the course of another so we want to have more information about testing to help the participants to choose their activities great so 313 will go to upcoming dates and this is probably what you're the most interested in if you want to participate in the MOOC or if you want to encourage your colleagues to participate the next one will be October 15th through November 10th in the future there'll be just the month of October but we thought Aaron was going to be going to a guide dog school for the blinds the first part of October to get his dog Jeb the cancellation and Aaron is able to go early but we're hoping in the future that it'll be the whole month of October this year it's October 15th through November 10th and then it will be April 2nd through April 27th in 2018 so we're hoping for October April October April just get on a really steady schedule with that so we have time in between to upgrade and we'll see the University of Montana UM System once in Montana and of course a MOOC but it's Montana not massive so we've got lots of demands right within our own state and we're really happy about that the ally user group I'm sure you've seen Nicholas and his team around we will Nicholas and others we will be putting information on that website about updates on the MOOC and how to sign up if you want to participate so that URL usergroup.li.ac slash desk dashboard is where you want to go and you can always email Erin and I AM page 87 at gmail.com and marlene.cents at gmail.com so we're available for questions I think we'll have a few minutes we just want to say in closing we're really excited to be able to reach a larger audience and get out of our own geographic area and have more extensive discussions with people around the world about accessibility so we're really excited for this opportunity and that's something given to us and as we mentioned kind of earlier on one of our goals is that we want to create a course that was reasonably appealing, engaging, and accessible in one of our key topics and we were very proud of the team that you hit that goal right on the spot right so we'll turn it back over to Gavin we have about five minutes well thank you very much that was great and I've got one question what you said in using for people who weren't familiar with SNAP and is that not creating a barrier to usage just as much as other ones surely you'll be better to be not using a customized theme or customized theme or course design and actually working with one of the default ones or if people are using that offers them the ability to change the theme at a user level that they can choose between or SNAP I can respond to that so as far as the accessibility that we've reported can relate to how that fits as far as clean sometimes we really want to try to minimize following SNAP but that was another one of the reasons why we do report SNAP to NSO because we want to show what is the scope of it the scope of that thing is something which is not really such an issue when you think about Twitter, Facebook and a lot of websites that are actually infinitely scrolled so I think it's an overplay point but I do get it it's just most people wouldn't be familiar with SNAP because if you want to go with the perigal world you're going with something which the minority will be aware of anyone else have a question there to the folks who's my navigation showed how to use SNAP but people just didn't intend to if you want to see what I created I'll just there's a alright now that's not the point it's just the fact that it's a non-default thing so any concern? we'd like to switch to this earlier you mentioned a product called was it H5P so it's just 5 digits and then the number of but we're in touch with that actual presentation here the Moodle Moodle on H5P I forget who's doing that is that you Gavin? Andy Andy's already done it oh it's a plug-in we've really just really tapped out our audience which I don't think that's ever going to happen because the technology will obviously change so we'll see thank you so would it hurt anything if I signed up again for the one in October? it didn't complete you have to self-enroll and they didn't complete the whole self-enrollment process and then like three weeks later they said why am I not in the mood so I have those names and I'll personally contact those people if you give yeah if you give me your name I'll make sure you personally contact you and I would just throw in a little bit so for the pilot of the Moodle Moodle product 100% that it's kind of complicated the registration process and so for a few years offerings of the Moodle Moodle there won't be enough registration for one yeah watch that ally site for information about that we had people signing up early during the first week but once we get rolling into the second week you're too far behind and you've missed a whole discussion or two so you really have to find out before it starts or right during the first week and get going yes thank you so thank you very much for your presentation and it looks really very interesting I think some of the topics you're typing there are absolutely critical for people to learn and understand so thank you very much for the view for that