 Okay, go ahead John. Good afternoon. I hope I am clear Neil. Is that okay? sounding good Okay, great, and I should say good morning to some Good afternoon to Many and good evening to others. I hope you are doing okay, whatever you are Before I introduce myself, I just would like to let you know That we have interpretation Into French, Portuguese and Spanish and Neil will put up some instructions Hopefully so you'll be sure how to do that But basically just click on the globe icon at the lower part of your zoom window and select the language that applies to you Yes, thanks Neil for that So my name is Joanne Cagwaja. I'm the chief of coordinate the Africa Land Policy Center out over the Sababa and I welcome you all to this webinar Which is on the new customary land rights act in Sierra Leone and We are excited that this forms part of the framework that will help To institute community consent to responsible investments We are the Africa Land Policy Center and the EU agenda on land are extremely pleased With the developments in Sierra Leone and we congratulate Sierra Leone on this So this is a fast webinar that is part of the advancing land-based investment governance or align series Which focuses on the governance of land-based investments in the global south And the series is exploring strategies and approaches adopted By land rights defenders and other practitioners to address common challenges surrounding investments In September, like I mentioned Sierra Leone enacted this unprecedented laws related to land climate and sustainable development And this new law will transform communities ability to protect their land rights and to pursue sustainable development And serve as a model for the rest of the world. We are really pleased about this This victory would not have been possible without the direct involvement of communities across Sierra Leone And we want to congratulate them and thank them for that and by combining the power of organizing with the power of law They won a lasting systemic change So the legislation and the strategies they used to secure it serve as models for the world as we said So today we will discuss the processes, the experiences, the challenges and the context of the new law Highlighting the new responsibilities in Sierra Leone Let me highlight a few logistical notes before I introduce our speakers The webinar is being streamed live on multiple platforms And note that there will be live tweeting for this event from the land portal Twitter account And the hashtag we are using is Align We have created a social media kit for this event, which has been shared with you If you have in the live chat and if you have any questions, please post them Using the Q&A button at the bottom of your screen and we will answer them later in the webinar Finally, in the interest of transparency, I want to add that today's session is being recorded and you may have seen that And you will receive the link to the video afterwards Also an article with the key messages will be available later in land photos website Now allow me to introduce our speakers. We have a terrific panel today to discuss these issues and we are really excited first to introduce Elena Thompson Who is the deputy director of programs In Sierra Leone, she is Sierra Leonean A public interest law and policy advocate with professional experience, which is extensive in civil society, engagement and community outreach And with Namati, she is part of a team of paralegos and lawyers Who are empowering local communities to protect their rights and environment. Welcome Elena to the discussion Next, we have the Rue Dupa, I hope I'm not slaughtering your name, who is a business operations manager at Miro Forestry and Timber Products in Sierra Leone Arelu began his career in 1993 in South Africa, working in mining, logistics, transport And has worked in the Middle East oil and gas industry before returning to Sierra Leone in 2009. You are very welcome to the discussion Next, Mr. Mohamed Albat Tawal Tarawali is leading member of land-owning family of a large portion of land that was occupied by the Macbass Sugar Company He is the chairman of the district multi-stakeholder platform on land and also director and founder of Protect Nature, a pronat Sierra Leone. Welcome Mohamed We have next, Jobo Samba, who is director of the GIS in the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Country Planning for the Government of Sierra Leone Mr. Samba was pivotal in the development of the responsible agricultural investment approval process, a national land commission, a bill and customary land rights law that we are discussing today, so very pleased to have you, Jobo, in the discussion Now let me give the floor to Elina to provide a brief presentation of Namati's work on these issues in Sierra Leone. Namati and we are pleased to have you and Elina over to you, please Thank you, Joanne. It's a pleasure to be here and to be part of this webinar I am going to talk a bit about the new Customary Land Rights Act, but I'm going to talk first a bit about the context in Sierra Leone and how Namati's work fits into that context And I will later on talk a bit more after we hear the perspectives of our colleagues from the private sector, communities and the government In Sierra Leone, one of our greatest assets is our land, but for a long time many Sierra Leoneans, especially those in rural areas would fall into the category of those who have justice issues, including around land, that they've been unable to resolve. As an example in 2012, through a one-sided deal with traditional authorities behind closed doors And without the involvement of the landowners, an oil palm investor acquired over 30,000 hectares of land in a chieftain called MacPellet chieftain in the Pujon district of Sierra Leone It's an Eastern Sierra Leone And that 30,000 hectares is an area essentially the size of an entire chieftain Which means that people's homes, their streams, their communal spaces, all were included in this land that was acquired by this investor And landowners were receiving less than a quarter of the amount they should have been receiving in rent They had received no compensation for their crops when the oil palm plantation was being established, and there was no provision of land for themselves to be able to carry on with their own farming and livelihood activities So this community within this chieftain felt really helpless to be able to address these issues with the company and their chieftain authorities Namati's community-based paralegals and lawyers in Sierra Leone worked with these communities to provide legal education about land laws in Sierra Leone And worked with landowners committees that the communities had set up to renegotiate this land deal and end up with a new land lease that reduced the size of land to about 2,300 hectares Which meant that their homes and their common areas were no longer included, it was only the areas that the oil palm company actually needed to be able to cultivate their plantation And the lease also included a number of environmental and social protections for the communities It's land justice challenges like these, like the one that the MacPellay communities faced, that we had been seeing in Sierra Leone for decades And they are due to outdated laws like a 1927 law that was exploited, that was being exploited by political and traditional elites to the disadvantage of communities And we've seen a number of barriers to women's access to land, particularly under customary law, which means traditional laws that are applicable in the provinces of Sierra Leone And we also saw a lack of satisfactory or efficient grievance regress mechanisms when land conflicts or land related justice issues come up Not enough legal assistance for communities who are negotiating with investors and the criminal problem of corruption in land acquisition and administration Not to mention, you know, extensive environmental harms that are not dealt with and due to some of these large scale investments And so, as I mentioned before, the role that Namati, which is a legal empowerment organization has played in such situations, not only in Sierra Leone but in a number of other countries we operate in is about working with people to know what the law or policies or their rights are, in a particular area in this case, land and using the law, rather than it being an oppressive force against them And ultimately, having those same people shape the law and people shaping the law is essentially how the customary Land Rights Act came about in the process of developing the law we saw land users and land owners in every region of Sierra Leone Organize themselves, give input into the laws themselves during regional consultations, write a letter to the president of Sierra Leone to ask that the laws be sent to parliament and be passed And showing up in their numbers at parliament to directly ask their MPs to pass the bill And why was this, why were people so integral to this law being passed and the shaping the law aspect of legal empowerment Because the progressive national land policy that had been adopted in 2015, which was the result of countrywide consultations on what land reforms were needed To try to address these problems that I mentioned earlier Communities being able to actually resolve their land related justice issues has to go beyond broad policies because those needs to be implemented and they need to And so the drive and the push for a customary Land Rights Act that would essentially give these policies and land reforms teeth is what we have And it's basically a practical mechanism for translating and those those land those policies that came out of a land reform process into something that communities can use So the customary Land Rights Act is a reflection of land sector reform in a number of areas that were driven by the lived experiences and input and voices of landowners land users and communities across the provinces of Sierra Leone Amongst those reforms and some of the key Highlights or provisions in the customary Land Rights Act are the following. First is that it ensures free prior and informed consent as a part of responsible investment. The law now requires free prior informed consent or f pic for all land based investments, not just in one sector, or no sectors exempt, including the mining sector for all land based investments. Communities have the right to not only be consulted, but to consent to whether or not they want the investment. And we haven't seen any other legal regime in the world that grants such robust rights to communities. In this way, and ones that don't have exceptions or not are not just limited to the context of, you know, indigenous people's rights. The key area of reform that the customary Land Rights Act and cement is non discrimination and ensuring that women's rights to own and access land rights is guaranteed. This is a reinforcement of, you know, constitutional rights, but more importantly, it's not only ensures that women and men have have equal rights on paper, but also equal rights in practice in terms of being able to access land under customary law. And it does that not only by explicitly stating the equality of men and women to the right to own land and access land, but also prohibiting laws or practices, customary laws or practices that discriminate against women and respective laws. So we would see situations where women in land owning families, when land is being allocated would maybe not be given and, you know, a piece of land that they would be able to use for their livelihood needs or their families livelihood needs or would not be given a fertile land to be able to use. We know that women make up the largest percentage of people in the country who are involved in agriculture and land related practices. And so that discrimination was having a knock on effects, not only in terms of families, but also even national development. We also see the Customary Land Rights Act ensuring protection of livelihoods in an environment by banning industrial development, including mining, timber logging and agribusiness in old growth and virgin forests and other logically sensitive areas. And we know that destruction of these ecosystems through deforestation contributes to and is worsened by climate change. And we also see the law making land administration more inclusive and accessible and addresses corruption and the chaos in the land sector, as I mentioned earlier. One way is by ensuring that there's a statutory minimum percentage of women who I mentioned are the largest percentage of land users in Sierra Leone to be represented in all land administration structures from village to national level. And finally, the law ensures that landowners have land tenure security by taking the ownership or the management of land out of the hands of custodians. And formally the traditional authority service custodians over all land in the provinces and puts it directly in the hands of landowners, and that ensures their decision making on that land. And that's not just important for ensuring land tenure security, which is now beefed up through the law through a modern land titling system that will help to map and provide land title registration certificates to all landowners in the country. But also it creates security for investors who also want to ensure that the deals they're entering into, you know, are going to stand the test of time and are not going to. And there won't be conflicts that arise out of, you know, unclear or unsecure land transactions. And so I'll stop there. And particularly on this issue of investment security would be great to hear from our colleagues, our colleague in the private sector, as to whether the law also, they feel that the law also provides that sense of investment security for them. Thank you. Thank you so much. We have run a little bit over so I'll be asking my other colleagues to limit their remarks a bit more so that we can also invite the audience to participate. Thank you so much, Eleanor, for those important insights from a basis for the discussion that we have. Let me now move to the rule and let's examine the issue of access to information because this is really important for communities. So how would the new law affect access to information for communities who are involved in these investments and mirrors work in general? Nairu, please. Yes, thank you very much and I can keep this short and sweet and I can tie up to what Eleanor said previously. As a company, we are leasing over 10,000 hectares. We are involved with 125 communities. As investors, when we go in, we just have to, we need the security and this access to information is critical to us because I obviously have a team of community liaison officers. We identify a piece of land. Either we identified or the community approaches us as our operations grow and this kind of information for us will be key. As investors, we know that we sit down and we negotiate with landowners because we are not just looking to better our lives but to better their lives as well and we have the correct information. You know, if you work with 125 communities and we all in yet to make a difference in Sierra Leone, plant the trees, offer employment. We have had situations where we are right at the end of the deal or, you know, it's all the documents have been signed these lease agreements of ours. And then somebody would either phone from UK or I'm making examples in UK or America or so as an example where somebody would then claim that none of it. They are a landowner and the six or seven or eight people that we've negotiated with and signed a contract with and lease agreements with and they can't sign because he or she is also a landowner and they needed to be consulted. So it's when we get to a point where, you know, every time where we go out and sign lease agreements and we do our surveys of the land. For us as example, if we're going to be geasing 100 hectares of land, it's not to say we're going to plant 100 hectares. If there's conservation areas in there, we will not touch it. But my point being access to information and knowing exactly with the certificates issued that tells us that these are the actual land owners. It's just going to make the process so much smoother, because we get to a point where we employ X amount of individuals from every community where we are signing land leases with and you know there's excitement in the community and there's job opportunities coming and we get to a point where we are then being questioned by somebody that claims to be a land owner. We can't go any further, we have to stop the work right there. So yes, just, I'm just going to end this up by saying access to this kind of information will be will be absolutely key and it will it will drive investor confidence. Thank you and thank you for keeping it short for that. Let me now move on to Mohammed, and let's hear from you also how a new law will affect. Sorry, not sure whether I'm the one logged on twice for some reason. Okay, that must be better. Sorry for that. Mohammed, let's move from you please. Thank you. Okay. Okay, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to represent the, the communities here in this on this panel. Hello, everybody. Thank you. The new law is a blessing to land owners and community people in many aspects in many ways, but let me limit myself to the following. So arms the communities with information and knowledge that they use to negotiate land agreements that will benefit them in a sustainable way. That is if they have access to the information of say the investor, giving them all that they would want to come into with their land, and that will really put them in a very good state. It has never been like that. So thanks to the new law, which, which has just been passed. This, it also helps to bring out clearly what the rights and responsibilities of the various stakeholders in land are, which in turn communities can use to secure their land rights. As I say, it facilitates the prevention of corruption in land bills, which has been prevalent and the pervasive in investment in land in communities in Sierra Leone. Lastly, access to access really to information and providing information encourages women and especially women especially women and other vulnerable groups to gain awareness and education about their land rights and how they will be able to change their own to get better livelihoods. And so that whatever arrangement that comes, they will be very well placed to make sure that they make arrangements on any negotiations that will affect their improve their livelihood. So if I, I think I have answered your question. Let me start there. This is what I have for you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I keep hearing an echo from my side, but I hope everybody else can hear me. Thank you for your insights. And especially bringing in those communities, especially how it affects women and other vulnerable groups as, as well in terms of access to information. Let me now move on to Jobo and let me hear your contribution here. Let us hear your contribution. How this new law will affect access to information and providing information to community investments. Thank you. Jobo. Good afternoon. And thank you for giving me the floor. I'm Jobo Samba from the Ministry of Lands. I work for the government of Sierra Leone. Excuse me. I kindly want to request one minute to go away from the question and to say that one inform our audience that I mean the new land rights laws, which is the National Land Commission and Customized Land Rights Act, they are one of the best things that have happened to Sierra Leone in recent times. And it will be unfair for me as a government representative, I mean to start discussion on this new laws without I mean, I mean extending our appreciation and thanks to, I mean the people who supported the government of Sierra Leone. I mean, through this difficult. It was really a very difficult work. But thanks to our partners. So we want to very use one minute to recognize I mean the partners who supported the government of Sierra Leone. We want to say thanks to the World Bank, to FAO, our CSO, particularly Namati, Genshinri, Land For Life, Solidari Dad. I mean our private sectors, they were also there as well. I mean, my role and the other private sectors play played a very key and vital role in moving the process forward. So we want to say thanks to these people. And then I'll come to the question proper, which is one our contribution to the development of the two land laws. I mean, essentially what we are doing is to, I mean, coordinate coordinate the process. So we were lazing with CSOs, development partners, communities, and other stakeholders, traditional leaders used. So we were coordinating all of these people. I mean, so that we have a very robust and very important land laws that will respond to the current times. So essentially our roles was coordinating and reviewing reports, lazing with partners and so on, and so forth. That's our contribution to the development process. But now, also, I mean, it is very important for us to appreciate, I mean, the foundation for the new laws. The foundation for the new laws is to promote transparency, accountability and inclusion of communities and other stakeholders in the management of natural resources in this country. And for us to get this, you begin to realize that you know your, you know that a key ingredients to achieve inclusivity, transparency and accountability is access to information. Access to information is really very good access to information by communities, providing information to communities is really very key and crucial to achieving this set objective. So the customer land rights law was essentially designed to provide the basis, provided a foundation for giving, providing adequate information to communities so that communities can have adequate access to information. For example, if you go to part seven of the law section 29, it's clear, it's clearly provides the requirement that investment, the requirement on the information that investors should provide to, to communities. The same part seven also, I mean, provides for free prior and informed consent, that is to say 60% of the adult male and female members of the family should provide their consent for an investment. And if we go to part four also, I mean, it for us provides us the format in which this consent to be provided by communities and that and that sort of thing. So, if you look at the laws, the two laws you find out that I mean, essentially, it is designed to ensure that communities have adequate information and have access to adequate information and they are provided with adequate information, not only from the private sector, not only from investors, but also governments and other stakeholders. So with regards to this question, this is what I'll have to say for now, I'll stop here for now and then hand over the floor to you again, Joanne. Thank you very much for the question. Over to you. Thank you so much and our appreciation to you and the ministry, especially for embracing the participation of the partners that you mentioned as well. And especially the communities to be involved in the in the in the development of these laws as well, and hopefully in their implementation. Thank you so much. So in the next round of questions, let me turn to LaRue, and here, let's examine the issue of open and open land data. It has been celebrated as what is going to help us to facilitate land markets and land use management. So my question to you is just reflect a little bit on how open data will support legal empowerment in Sierra Leone. Thank you. Right, I think I'll tie up to what I what I said before you know this links me to to the access to information but I think what what comes out for me in this section is that you know that the use of land allocation should always always always be fair and it should be accountable and as as a responsible investor we need to make sure that that is happening and you know we need tenure rights to be able to define and be protected and linking up to we need to ensure that you know women use other segments of the communities are involved in this process. The legal empowerment, you know it doesn't just go flow over to to the actual land but it flows over to the communities and the individuals inside those communities we need to make sure that everybody has the right to gather around a meeting or the gathering with a company like Myro and to have their voices heard. The whole issue of discrimination. You can either be young you can be female. Thank you for your information and and and opened up it's just going to support this and it's going to be. It's, it's going to protect the vulnerable and it's going to protect tenure rights and that's why we are excited about this law and what it could bring for the future. Thank you, thank you so much. Let me turn to Mohammed similar question, how will open a data support legal empowerment among communities in Sierra Leone. Please come in. Mohammed, and Mohammed is your microphone on. Yes, yes, please come in. Hello. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes, as I was saying open data in Sierra Leone. Generally, it helps legal empowerment because it facilitates access to laws made in the country. But in spite of all these, you know, there is the digital divide, especially with the rural people who really who cannot really access data so easily. Also, open data has the potential to reduce poverty because once people are informed, and it empowers the rural poor once once they are informed about certain information and certain laws and what to do what they should not do. And it will benefit them because they will be well placed to negotiate better deals compared to the ones that we have now. A law with open data information is an opportunity for participatory governance in the management of land as a natural resource through collective decision making. This also, it also helps legislation. This legislation and others before it should be used as a case study that could influence and necessitate the replication of open data in future legislation. And I think it should also be made that in a way that the rural poor can access so far and pass the ball to you again. My apologies. Thank you for that input. I'll turn now over to you. Again, Jobbo, you are responsible for information in your role with working on GIS in the ministry. How can open data in your view support legal empowerment in Sierra Leone? Thank you again, Joanne, for that. I mean, very good question. I mean, open data can support legal empowerment in various and diverse ways in Sierra Leone. I mean, we are all aware of the fact that information is power. So the more information people have, the more information they have access to, the better informed they are and the better decisions they can make. So one of the way open data can support legal empowerment is to ensure that, I mean, information are provided to the general public, they have access to it, and then also under the implementation framework of the Sierra Leone administration project. I mean, what we are doing is to develop, I mean, a comprehensive land information system of land, of all land records in the country. I mean, if open data can ensure it, I mean, the public communities are able to access this information, communities are able to make decisions based on what they can access with little or no hassle. I mean, that will go a very long way in implying communities and communities and settlements in Sierra Leone. And I also think that, I mean, open data making all of this information on the implementation of the new laws available, the progress available to the public. And this will also be able to build the capacity of paralegals who are really in these communities, who are supporting these communities and they will be able to provide some sort of just and empowered community. Thank you very much. I'll stop for now here over to you again. Thank you. Thank you very much. We now move on to another round, looking at an issue that is very close to us here at ALPC that relates to gender and women's land rights. So I turn to you again, Aleru, and ask how, from your perspective you see my role preparing women in Sierra Leone to take advantage of the new opportunities for participation in this new law. Yeah, this is the one point where I know I've kept it short and sweet and I'm going to try and keep it that way but, you know, this is one area where I can speak for a whole day. I just want to start with an example, you know, when it comes to opportunities for women in Sierra Leone, Myro has what we call an outgrow scheme. So obviously, yes, we plant our own presentations, but not far from us yet just on the road to Mexica. We have a lady that owns land and she has given up 40 hectares where she has started planting three years ago. So our trees reach maturity and go through the processing plant that about five years. And obviously she approached us three years ago. We offered her assistance. We surveyed the land. We looked at the quality of the soil. And this is three years later, she's got 40 hectares. We've trained her staff to prune every year and she's taken very, very good care of her piece of land. And in two years' time, and with us putting up a new sawmill here, she's going to start, you know, filling those trees and as she fell, she will replant and Myro will buy those trees or those logs from her when, they shall be processed here. So why I'm using this example, because it is, I'm not going to use the word easy, but it is easy to have women participate in what we, as Myro do, we believe in equal rights. And unfortunately, where we operate over the 125 communities that I just mentioned, it's the cultural barriers and Myro has identified this. When the discussions started with regards to, you know, with the customary Land Rights Act and even the National Land Commission Act, when we started sitting with government, it's something that Myro immediately, you know, took seriously. And what we have done, and we are just waiting for the results, is we've just completed a gender action plan that stretches not just within our operational area a year where we produce, but also in our communities just to get a feel for, you know, what are the structural barriers to women and empowerment and tenure rights. And we are very excited because we got a independent company from the UK. They spent a good week on site, speaking to us, speaking to our community, speaking to the chiefs, speaking to the landowners. And once that report comes out, we are hoping that we can share this with the communities on a regular basis and, you know, to make sure that there's fair representation for women. It's this kind of forward thinking from our side was also driven by the community because we really want to make sure that, you know, everybody has the right to participate in what we call a commercial business but can also be involved in conservation. And I'll end it up there, but I needed to just give that first example of a woman that is going to, that has made a huge success of a 40 hectare plantation and it doesn't sound like a lot but come over and see 40 hectares being planted with beautiful trees and, you know, it is possible. And for Myro this is exciting times and after our gender action plan, you know, when you get the results, we're going to drive this through community and we're going to drive this through our monthly meetings with all of our communities and all our landowners that, you know, the rights of women need to be recognised and Myro, that's the way we're going to go forward, that we need to see representation from women when we do business with you. Just like in any other business, government has just implemented a 30% here, 30% there, women representation, and we are driving the process now to make sure that representation when it comes to land, access to land, that women of our communities are involved in this. I'm sorry, I think Joan is frozen. Yeah, I think she's frozen up a bit. We'll see. Oh, there she is. Maybe I spoke too long. Oh, sorry about that. Struggling a little bit but thank you so much for those insights I know in the in the AU guidelines that pertain to investments we have one of six key areas as the interaction between these investments and how it affects women's land rights and and how it can offer opportunities for women. So really glad to hear your discussions are really touch on that. Let me move to Mohammed and ask how you see the same issue in Sierra Leone how women can take advantage of participation in the context of the new law. Thank you. Mohammed, please unmute. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity again to talk on this very important issue. Like Alino said, women make the bulk of community land users because they are mostly present families. And a law like these really should be should be is an advantage to women. But I think it should be made that but the access to this land knowledge of what is in this law land law should be made available to the women. Because if when they if they know what it is all about then they will be able to take advantage of it. And as such I am I think there should be a simpler form of the law the law should be should be simplified and also because rural women the rural women are mostly not educated. So there should be the law should be translated into local languages and also town hall meetings should be held really by CSOs I would say for the these the implications of the law laws with the two laws we bring to them and also social. Sorry Mohammed you're cutting out. Okay I thought it was from my end. No, I think it's the Mohammed. In case that happens again just turn off your camera. Thank you. Okay. Okay Mohammed can you hear us now to complete that thought, or shall we move on, maybe to job and and pick it up at the next question. So let's let's move on to to job and I know you're not just as good at good at information and GIS. You've been also helping to bring stakeholders and communities together. So the same question is how best do we prepare women in Sierra Leone to take advantage of the new opportunities for participating in the in the law job. Yes, thank you again, John. One thing I would quickly point out is that women women at the center of the land reform, and the at the center of even, I mean, government doing business and government businesses and how we want to be doing business as a government in Sierra Leone. I mean just yesterday, the gender empowerment act was passed in in parliament, and and we see also, I mean this notion is being it's been demonstrated in the, in the, the customer land rights act is also the demonstrated in the National Land Commission, Land Commission Act. So what we want to do as a government is to ensure that women. Can you please repeat the last couple of sentences. We had a slight technical glitch there. Hello, you can. Can you hear me. Yeah. Just go ahead and just to repeat what you just said. Thank you. Can you hear us. Yes. Yes, please go ahead. So I was saying. So we want to ensure that women as a government we want to ensure that women play crucial and critical role in the management of these resources and also in decision making. When it comes to to land in their communities. So one of the best way we can prepare them to take advantage of the law is to is to build their capacities. I mean, we should use various approaches and different forms. I mean, under, under also the implementation framework of the Sierra Leone administration projects, a huge chunk of that component is going to base on how we mainstream, I mean, what the law says into, into, into land management into land transactions and so forth. So for women to be able to participate adequately in this and take advantage of all of these opportunities, we need to build their capacities. And for me, we have to adopt various approaches and various methodologies to build their capacities. I mean, we can, we can do that through stakeholder consultations, one-on-one meetings, focal group meetings, even informal meetings with some of these, some of these women so that when you are able to understand exactly what your challenges are and how they will be adequately be able to fit in, because the situation for each and every one of them is different until you are able to understand exactly the perspective and where you are coming from. That's how you'll be able to prepare them for them to take advantage of, of, of, of, of, of, of, I mean, I mean, the take advantage of the new laws. And then also, I mean, so capacity building is key. Joanne, I'll stop here for now and then hand over to you again. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jobo, to you, to LaRue, to Mohamed. You pointed out such important issues on how you might be able to, to ensure that women have the information to take on this, this, to take up the opportunities. And I add using the platforms that women are already on to raise awareness of these law and also to use it as avenues for building their capacity. Thank you very much. So we move on to the last round of questions and we have just a few minutes. So I'm going to ask you to restrict your, your answers to a minute or so. So if I start with you, LaRue, your perspective on how this legislation in Sierra Leone can be used to propel a global movement for communities to have control over their land, because I think this is very important. How do we use this to propel a global conversation and movement that will help communities to control their land? Thanks, LaRue. Yeah, this is when I saw this, it's also very excited about this question because, you know, we are in Sierra Leone and I've been in this country for a very, very long time and it's, it's very close to my heart and we know that there were things in the past that happened that was not right. You know, companies took advantage where it shouldn't have happened and now that we have clarity with this law, you know, what's happening in Sierra Leone? I can tell you now it's happening all over Africa and I think Sierra Leone introducing this law is going to create a global shift. You know, we are the first that can get this working well and we can showcase to the world that, you know, at the end of the day, it can work anyway in Africa. You know, we want to make sure that the world knows that we will increase awareness and, you know, we will empower voices within Sierra Leone, especially from women as well, but, you know, all of the communities. I think the point that I'm trying to make here is this is a first and, you know, I think Sierra Leone, the government and everybody that's worked so hard to get this into place. We should now get it right and we should make sure that we are, we are the model that the rest of Africa, and I'm not sure other parts of the world, but for me being from Africa, working in Africa, I just think this will be, this will be the kind of change where we can show the rest of Africa how it's supposed to be done. So this could become a global movement. If we do it right, and we give it our 100% to get this, to get this going that, yeah, we can, we can teach other countries how it's supposed to be done in a nutshell. Thank you so much. I'm sure there's more than 200 people in this conversation who, who agree and hope, and will participate in making sure that happens. Thank you so much. Let me turn to you, Mohammed, and the same how do we, how does this propel a movement for the continent and beyond in this regard. Thank you, Mohammed. Yes, thank you, John. This legislation should form part of the success stories that land reforms in the world have made, especially with such a law where such a lot does not exist. Also, I think international land centered movement should be formed on the one umbrella or at regional level or at sub regional level. Also, we should be thinking of or we should continue make doing organizing, experiencing, sharing exchange visits across countries. If we organize them, it could be at the international or global level or at the regional or sub regional level. I want to believe that we should be doing or we should be having more proper land centered initiatives to reach more and more people. Thank you. Hello. Yes, thank you. Thank you for that job. You're representing a lot, a lot of people who are who should be really proud of this new law in Sierra Leone. So the question I also have of you is, how can we make this accomplishment in Sierra Leone help help communities around the world to gain control over the island? Jobbo? Jobbo, are you with us? Are you muted? Okay. I will just check with them, but you can just maybe pass over to Eleanor and we'll get back to him. Go ahead, John. Go ahead and continue. Jobbo, are you available? Are you online? Yes, I'm online. Okay, go ahead. I did not get the question. Oh, I see. So the question is, how can this, how proud are you of this accomplishment and what steps could you see being taken to make this law in Sierra Leone help communities around the world to gain control over their land? Yes. Very, very good point. I'll begin from the point earlier. Yes, that the law itself can serve as a very good example for people around the world to use to empower communities, but more specifically when you go into the law, two things we can use as a vehicle. I mean, the free prior and informed consent. I mean, that's really unprecedented. I mean, that's a very good tool and very good vehicle we can use to mobilize movement around the world for communities to get control over their land. And the second one we could use, we can really make a very good tool of is, is not only the consent should be, I mean, I mean, I mean, should be, the community should not only provide their consent, but it has to be a written consent. I mean, which makes it really very much important. So those, these two things, for me, in my opinion, are really very key and crucial we can use them as a tool around the world to steer up a global movement. I mean, which will definitely provide opportunities for communities to gain control over their land, over natural resources, and so on. Thank you very much, Joanne, over to you again. Yes, can you hear me? Yes. I apologize. I'm out here in Conakry and the network is dropping sometimes. I know I was asking if Jobo can make some remarks. Did that happen on the same topic? Yes, yes, he made those remarks. So, yeah, we can move on. If you haven't already done that to Eleanor, so we can hear your reflections having listened to this conversation. Thank you. I mean, I think my fellow panelists have, I mean, covered the gamut in terms of the importance of information, providing information to communities, particularly when we're in respect of land deals, and the different stages at which that needs to happen, starting from, you know, even environmental impact assessments and through negotiations. And also, I mean, cannot underscore the importance of women's participation in land management and land administration anymore. One of the things we've seen from our practical experience is that oftentimes in some of these negotiations, some of the provisions or some of the suggestions that women will bring to the consultations and negotiations, often are things that will benefit the entire community, so not just their own personal interest or their family's interest, but really look toward the development of the community as a whole. And that is crucial. Someone asked a question about whether land users, you know, have a role in consultation and consent processes and this is exactly why, because the investments have broader social impacts, and they also involve community development. And so where we see not just women, but young people, youth, some of whom may often even be employed through the project or not, but also have a vested interest in the future of that land, giving their input. We often see more robust and beneficial agreements that investors and communities are happy with. Both parties are happy. That makes for an overall better environment for the investment to operate in, and usually greater benefits, not just, you know, financial but also developmentally and in terms of protection of the environment for the community. Thank you. Thank you so much, Eleanor, for those insights and reflections after hearing from our panelists. Neil will now take it and look at the questions from the audience and it was difficult for me to keep top of those questions as I'm moderating this. Why are you able to help out a little bit and maybe point to a few questions, Neil. Sure, I can do that. Thank you. Okay. Here's a good question from Seth Nuama. Does this, this land act ensure social inclusion and decision making, and how does it, how does the act address community land governance systems. That's a good, that's a good one who wants to take a step at that. Neil, can you just give me just a quick, I could hear, I could hear social. Okay, just lost the question here. Does the customer, does the act ensure social inclusion and decision making and how does the act address community land governance systems. From my perspective is, you know, as I said previously, and this all goes back to, you know, communication will. Communication is happening at this stage between us and our communities but I think this act will drive that at the end of the day from from from a social perspective, you know, we will know exactly who the landowners are, what the individuals are in this in these different communities and that it needs to be all inclusive at the end of the day. From a social perspective we have our multi stakeholder forum meetings but with with communities women's rights groups. The elderly, for example, and I just think, you know, this act will will give us as investors the opportunity to know that, you know, this needs to be all inclusive. And we will have the information available of who we are supposed to be talking to. You know, we will have clarity on when we sit with a group of individuals that these are the individuals that have got the right to be there and that nobody is being excluded. Let me just add to what you have said in terms of how the acts facilitates community land governance systems. One of the ways in which the customary Land Rights Act and the National Land Commission Act which Joe Bill mentioned do this is by establishing the land governance structures at village chiefdom district and national level, and those the village and chiefdom level structures, they have the mandates the authority to create bylaws on on land governance, and enforce them. But those committees are meant to be democratic and meant to include not just a chief, I mean as who would traditionally sort of like determine these these issues, but the majority of members are land owners and land users within either that village or that chiefdom, who, again, they have the lived experience of. In addition to, you know, ownership rights or use rights but have the lived experience of, of knowing how or what rules, they'd like to put in place to be able to protect or manage their land and their natural resources. And this is also where the law provides minimum percentage of women at least 30% of these committees have to be women. Again, in recognition of the vital role that women play in these land decision making processes that they've typically been excluded from because of, you know, tradition or misconceptions that land is not a woman's a woman's issue. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more because you were saying, you know, the question pops out there we sit there and we, and we speak to the chief it shouldn't be that way at the end of the day is. Yes, we will always respect the chief and the chief will always be there when we communicate but we will now have clarity on who is supposed to be there. You know, it's not about the chief deciding who's going to be sitting in our meetings but we now have the information on who is supposed to be there and we can now say right everybody that's represented here. We've got the information are they all here. That's good. I saw a job wants to come in and I also want you to address one that I have seen on what percentage of community land is can be used by investors for agricultural purposes for instance and that would be applicable to this new law I suspect it's a lot it's a high percentage but just address that question as well as you come in. Yeah, it's specifically no percentage but however it is in terms of. It is in terms of acreage and quantity that's that can go for investment. Community land that can go for investment for agricultural, it should be 20,000. I don't know if I still have the figures are correct. Eleanor, please jump in there if I'm 1515,000 for agriculture, 1010,000 agricultural 10,000 for mining in other forms of investment 5000 right. Yes, that's so those are those are those are the cops that are sets out by the law. I mean for investment on community community land. Over to you John. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That is a good question. I have seen another question right now that flashed that was really useful that talked about land use planning is I think the issue of land use planning is really, really important in the context of investments. So does the law recognize communities in the context of planning, are there regulations being developed as it relates to customary or something flashed of land use planning in a participatory process. Talk a little bit about land use planning. I can just say from my perspective I'm not the planning expert but obviously we have what the planning manager here. And I'm not sure if this relates to this question but I always just break it down if we're going to go into. If we're going to be leasing 100 hectares of land, you know, our planning manager goes in, and they will do a survey, and if there's, there's natural forest rivers swamps pieces of land where they are practicing agriculture, and the planning manager then comes back, and he has to report directly to our investors. And, you know, on a survey plan, you can't lie so at the end of the day we will come back and say right, we've looked at the various areas, and they are areas of conservation or the swamps or there's a river. We want an X amount of meters in the boundaries of where a river is flowing, and every single piece of land that we want to then lease based on what the planning manager provides to the investors, that gets signed off by them. So it's not just a question of going in and just taking 100 hectares. What we, the planning of this piece of land has to go back to our investors, and we obviously have a environmental committee that sits with our investors and that's our decision is taken. So just talking from my perspective on how we decide which part of this this 100 hectares we are going to be using which is needs to be recognized internationally we can't just go and and plant in swamps or block a river and create a dam or anything like that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. Elina, did you want to come in on that? Well, I mean, I think maybe Jovo can can talk about land use planning as their ministry works on that. But I'll just, I just wanted to mention that the law in recognition of the importance of ensuring that land in the country and in the provinces is sustainably utilized and effectively and efficiently utilize the law does, I mean, limit the size of an initial investment, which essentially forces the investor to really think carefully as LaRue was saying and have their land planning personnel really think through, okay, how do we, how much land do we actually need? We don't, we, it's also not in the interest of the investor to acquire a huge swath of land that they're not going to use that's not actually bringing any returns. And so the law actually even includes a five year period in which if the investor fails to utilize or fully utilize the acquired land, it would automatically revert to the landowners. That's more of an incentive to ensure this land use planning process that LaRue mentioned they do as investors, but also on the government side that they're also involved in land use planning activities from the outside. Okay, thank you. Okay. Go ahead, Jovo. Yeah, so what I'll add to that is that the implementation of this law is really going to set the foundation for land use planning. Because once we effectively implement the laws, and then if you go into the laws you'll find out that even the planning and management has to be participatory. Once you are able to achieve that, you do that with communities, then it sets the foundation, it sets the basis for effective planning. Planning itself will involve, as LaRue said, planning itself will have to involve the people. But from the onset, once from the onset with the gathering of the information, the surveying and so forth, once you have the people on board, then the foundation and the basis for now effective planning and getting the people involved in the planning of their their resources becomes very much easier. So the implementation of the law is going to set the foundation for effective planning in this country. Thank you very much. Yeah, I know we're bringing us to a close, but I saw a couple of interesting questions. One of them is how the law lays foundation for addressing issues of conflict that might arise out of these investments. How is that addressed? And somebody said, is this just a law that looks like gold on paper? What kind of implementation and rollout is there that will ensure that it actually works? And how do you bring everybody on board, women, youth, others, to make sure that there is involvement? Who wants to address any one of those two questions? Yes, I would like to address it. Yeah, I just want to quickly, what Jobe would say, sorry, from our perspective and communicating all of this information. We have said from the start that we will work with government. And, you know, obviously these documents that we have here, it's not going to be, it's not going to be, you can't go put this in a community and say, read it through and that is what it is. I think we need to get to a point where we're going to be breaking it down in chunks. And we as private investors need to work with government, work with Namati, for example, so that we can drive this communication process in a much simpler format than all of us sitting here and reading through all of these pages of the act. So I think from a government perspective, we have always said to the government that we as a private investor have got no problem in helping to communicate this through our communities and giving government feedback. Thank you, Jobe, you wanted to come in? I also want to come in. Mohammed wants to come in, so you can come in. Okay, sorry, Mohammed, please, we haven't heard from you in a while. Yes, I think it is interesting. Coincidentally, Loru and I are coming from Tonko-Lili and as a chairman of the multi-stakeholder platform of Tonko-Lili, we have been interfacing with the Loru's company, Myro. I think the setting up of multi-stakeholder platforms that bring every stakeholder on board, including relevant government agencies, CSOs and whatnot, is a mechanism that will handle dispute and conflict on land. I think Loru would be aware that more often than not, our facilitator has been going to Myro to try to handle disputes that were coming from the occupied land. I would like to say here that more than any other company or investment company in Tonko-Lili, Myro has been very, very compliant and at least wherever they have problems, we go there, we talk to them and they'll hit to our pieces of advice. I would just want to add that this law that is here, that this new law has a serious test in what local districts wearing the free prior and informed consent is challenged, it's undermined. A license, some company has been given a license without the consent of the land owners. We are really following up on that and I think we should, the Governor Jubu who is here should take up this issue and see how this law, this new law that is one of the best laws that we have had in Africa is really implemented. So conflict resolution, as I said, I think the multi-stakeholder platforms should be where this land governance issue of conflict and or dispute should be resolved. I agree. Thank you. Thank you so much. And if I just pick up from that and maybe Le Roux and Eleanor can respond to this very important question. How can private sector be enlightened on this new law? Maybe workshops. Namati, are you planning to advance that? Are you going to be bringing in Myro? How are you going to be doing that? I think that's an important question. And then additionally, the role of environmental impact assessment and other assessments that would help to track the implementation of this new law. And those will be probably the last questions before we bring it to a close. Thank you. Thanks for that question, Joan. Absolutely, an act of implementation of these laws can only happen if people know and understand them. And so broad scale sensitization is one of the urgent actions that has to happen and that requires all actors, government, civil society, private sector. We are planning in line with one of the recommendations that Mohammed gave to ensure simplification of the laws. I mean, this is part of what we do as legal educated with Namati in working with people to know laws and simplification. And also how it's applicable in their everyday lives through a number of means. We don't not just talking to people utilizing media and others. And then you asked about other types of assessments. So we've talked a lot during this webinar about information. And information isn't just a one off providing information just a one off process that happens, you know, at the start of negotiations are, you know, when in order to, you know, ensure there's f pic. It is ongoing the provision of information is ongoing so even before you start negotiations that yet the environmental impact assessment process happens with the public disclosure. And then you the investor provides information ahead of negotiations and during negotiations, and then as the investor is operating, they will continue to provide, they should continue to provide information and the communities will continue to seek information in order to be able to monitor the the the investment and continue that dialogue with the investor. Once the land deal is signed that doesn't end there. They should be able to have a relationship, including where grievances may come up or something that needs to be addressed to be able to to to dialogue. From my perspective, I can just say, you know, from the start, you know, I've worked with Eleanor and I've worked with Joe Bo and with Mohammed and we see each other these multi-stakeholder forum meetings. I just want to be, and I mentioned it earlier, we cannot be throwing these kind of documents in front of communities. I think we need to simplify it. We need to work together. And I'm just talking from a Miro perspective, we are, there's other companies out there, but I say to Joe, we're from the start in the meetings, you know, talk to us. And as Mohammed said earlier, we have these multi-stakeholder forum meetings. We can incorporate it yesterday once a month, three hours, but if we need to make it a whole day thing, every two months, we get the support from government, we get some kind of documentation or, you know, we admire when we talk to communities, sometimes we have these, we have a sketch office that does sketches for us to explain what is good practice, what is bad practice. And from a Miro perspective, as I say again, we're not the only private investor, but we would like to get this information from my perspective into our communities sooner than later. And if government needs us to help with communicating, or myself and Mohammed form a team and we say, right, this is how we're going to be communicating this information over the next three or four or five months. You know, I've got community liaison officers here that I know all of various communities, but the key, key, key here is they are individuals out there in the communities that don't know about this. And we need to make them aware, because if we do not make them aware, we are failing ourselves. Yes, so I'll start. That's a good last one job, I'm giving you half a minute, so we can bring it to a close. I'll just be on what you have said, and that's the intention of the government, and we currently have support from the World Bank. At the moment we have $31.1 million grant that is coming exclusively for implementation of this large underground. So we have started the process. I want to inform our audience that I mean, a lot of the challenges challenges that even the one Mr Mohammed mentioned will be thing of the past, because we are hoping at the beginning of 2023, January. We will hit the ground in the communities running and we are going to work with the multistakeholder teams in the, in the provinces in the communities we are going to work with private sectors. And of course, I mean, the CSUs are integral and they are part of part of this reform. I mean, so essentially, I mean the ground is set we have everything government needs now to move the process forward. We are happy to start. Thank you very much. And thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you so much. And sorry, sorry, sorry for almost cutting you short. There are more questions that are coming in. I've seen some that pertain to fears of government officials partnering with private sector to grab land. I've seen a lot of concerns there of how all this is trapped. But I would say that what I've heard about multistakeholder platforms and if those platforms are used also in the processes of tracking and reporting what's happening on the ground, I think we have opportunities there. So if you allow me, let's thank our panelists for really your lively involvement and insights which have been extremely useful. Huge again, congratulations to Joe Boynstein and Leon and also Eleanor who happens to come from there for this new law that is going to I think form the basis for learning for other communities across the continent and other countries. Let me encourage you to please take the survey on a link that will be posted by Neil. I hope you enjoyed this webinar just like I did. And I wanted to bring it to a close at exactly that time and I'm glad I think we are doing that. So I just want to thank all of you. Great to see our old faces in this and let's continue working together to improve land governance and the governance of investments as well in the context of land. Thank you so much and thanks for involving us in this as ALPC. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.