 Man there's so many places I can go with that you know, I'm curious church is hating men This is something that I hear from so many Christian men that I talked to as they go to church And they feel like they're they're put beneath their wives or they're denigrated And they're just not seen and sort of at the same time told to man up You know the common thing repeated in the in the house of God and I know that's something you're working towards I wonder if you can speak to that working away from I suppose. Yeah, it's sad. It's sad It's a mixture of things behind that. Yeah, it's not just First off, they don't know that they're doing it always. Okay, they don't really get it The pastors like don't hate men who's they don't think they do They've been conditioned into one believing that women are somehow less sinful, right? But that even works its way out Practically like they might not write that down on paper But like a great example is women cheat Just like men cheat. Yeah, and I know a lot of church planners whose wives were unfaithful to them and And pastors are quite a few actually and I could think of one in particular Who was a good man and they've had a ton of kids and they'd been married for many many years at least over 20 Okay, and that she just kind of lost her mind and she went and was Unfaithful to her husband and like so many men he wanted to work it out Men don't like to restart right right. They're very practical. Yeah, women tend to have like a sort of divorce fantasy Like I'll divorce this guy and then I'll find the true soulmate the better guy you pray love Yeah, that's right men are much more practical. Yeah, I also the I mean the culture is conditioning that ends a woman as well Yeah, but I even with that guy people were like, well, it was something you did it was something you were yep You weren't you know, you weren't the perfect husband. You're like who it is, right? Like who's the perfect wife? But it's always on the husband. So I make a distinction between Responsibility and blame it is the husband's responsibility if his wife cheats on it, right? That doesn't mean he caused it right he has to make a decision and deal with it He's the head of the household that might mean he is within his rights through scriptures to divorce her Mm-hmm, this is responsible to make that decision not hers, right because he's the head of the household But he didn't necessarily cause it and so you can see where they always think women are Innocent like that they actually think there's something pure more childlike about women. That's not scripture right scripture uses adultery as It's a as its main metaphor for idolatry and being faithful or unfaithful towards God And it's always God is like the husband and the unfaithful covenant people the Old Testament people the church It was like a woman a Mistress right a woman of the night and and so the the main metaphor for being unfaithful Religiously in scripture is an unfaithful woman. Mm-hmm. So how in the world? So you hear things like this month everyone my favorite one is like if he had if he had loved her like Jesus She wouldn't have done that. All right now wait in Revelation chapter 2 and 3 Jesus gives seven different churches and he's speaking to them and he's calling the repentance Hey, he says if you don't do this this and that I'm gonna spew you out, right? I'm gonna be done with you. Okay. Well, wait a second. Why are those churches behaving bad if Jesus had loved them like Jesus? Wouldn't they all be good because the church is given as a metaphor Jesus is the crew and the church is the bride. What's because women have agency women are smart and they have abilities So it's kind of funny that it's like it's feminine. It's like it's Misogynistic like these pastors are acting like women are like little babies. No, they made that choice And so I think that you see that's coming in the churches and and men don't want to stay there and men Men will put up with quite a bit like very homo erotic Feminine music they'll put up like when they go into the bathroom It's like they stumbled into the woman's bathroom at pottery barn. I mean, it's like new designs So it's not a very masculine environment They'll sit there preaching that can be very condescending towards men and the whole thing is just tried harder Try harder man up and there is a sense like if by man up We mean like embrace your masculine nature for a holy purpose, then it's good Yeah, but it's usually just kind of barking like it's kind of like a boomer barking like I didn't you can do it You know you guys Will put up with that for a time and then they're like I can't do this anymore. They're leaving the church It's not good. It's not good at all. We need men men give more men work So they give more to the church. They actually serve more in Practical sides of the church as deacons fixing things whatever They bring stability to a church when there's more men around the kids tend to be more well-behaved They're the lifeblood of a church if you want to If you want to get women and children you go for the men Mm-hmm the women children will follow I I love the women and children in my church and I minister to them But I do certainly put a special emphasis in the man because if my men are well taken care of Then the women and children will be well taken care of it's not my responsibility to be every woman's emotional support Husband, yeah, that's not my job. I can't be every kid's dad. I have my own family I'm not I'm there to to feed that fire to encourage it into you equip men to do the work And so these churches are always talking down to men and Shaming them and emasculating them and they're they're destroying they're destroying themselves All right It's like they're like blowing up the very foundation underneath them Which God builds on the foundation of of men and churches. So yeah You hosted a panel on men in religion with Jack Donovan