 Wow, what's up everybody once again is brand man Sean and I'm back with another interview a very special guest. I have Daniel D. Piazza. This guy is an entrepreneur a true serial entrepreneur not just there's a you know I have entrepreneur in a business card or my IG profile just switch it over from a personal profile. This man's been multiple businesses. He has a book rich 20 something which shows you hey he got some money in his 20s and was able to talk about it right but right now he's really heading the curve with a company by the name of Alpha mentorship where he's helping service providers right whether you're selling a course whether you you're just a person who has a consultant sorry for fumbling but or you have some side of type of business that you're offering to the public and you need some type of better leadership oh shit hold up thank god for editing yeah I just got this computer a couple days ago I kept seeing something flash all right so back up his primary company is Alpha mentorship where he's helping service providers so when it comes to business if you have a business where you're offering a course if you have a business where you are a consultant and you're trying to figure out how to get more clients think about digital marketing right you're you're you're in the digital space and you need somebody to help you with your leadership you need coaching to become better and optimize your business as a whole the entire infrastructure he has a mentorship program to help you through but that's not all we're talking about this guy's doing some very interesting things when it comes to Superphone y'all have heard me talk about it before what's up Ryan you're out there hopefully you see it Lee all y'all guys he has a extremely interesting approach he's taking he's going dark this year getting off of social media for um you know and I'll let him talk a lot more about that but Daniel what's up man appreciate having you and like let's talk let's get into this going dark thing I love this philosophy I think I'm gonna follow you the whole year I'm telling you that so but what's up man let's start here first thanks for having you thank you brand man I appreciate it okay I mean look the first thing is I'm not anti social media I'm not anti okay I'm just about having awareness of where in your marketing arsenal social media really exists you know okay over the past over the past I don't know 2020 now I can't believe that over the past five years social media has really really exploded from you know something that we just connect with our friends on to something that has become you know a huge tool for businesses you know because you can you can target your exact user you can you can get in front of them all the time the doors are never closed social media is always open but with that I think we've really developed an overreliance on that tool and you know it's like the the phrase you know when all you have is a hammer you think everything is a nail it's like everybody just wants to use social as the only tool not realizing that the goal that this platform has for itself is different than the goal that you have for yourself in your business sometimes those interests are aligned sometimes you and Mark Zuckerberg are friends sometimes what you want also aligned to what he wants but oftentimes there are odds so what does social media want now when I say social media I mean all all platforms you know anything that's owned by google so youtube google fill in the blank anything that's owned by facebook instagram um you know facebook the actual platform I guess whatsapp to a certain extent you know all these different platforms that are owned tiktok um their goal and their game is ad revenue from selling ad space okay that's their main goal in fact any time that there's a free platform you're the product any time that you get them free you're the product you know when I joined facebook in 2006 my dog is annoying i'm screaming what he's moving when what I joined facebook in 2006 I thought oh my god mark is so mark Zuckerberg is so generous thanks so much for giving us this platform wow I can connect with my friends this is dope amazing and then 10 years later 12 years later I realized one I'm trapped on this thing I can't leave because I'm it has tentacles I mean real deep and two I'm being productized and commoditized because my attention is what is being sold to advertisers and I am I am the problem and the solution because I'm also selling I'm also buying other people's attention with my ads so we're in this little matrix now and this matrix is making the platforms a lot of money if you can figure out how to get ads to work for you fine that will make you money but what you have to realize is that you don't own that data okay you guys saw Sean's interview with Ryan Leslie he's talked he's been beating this drum for years and you know it's it's pretty obvious but you don't own the data there is a third party as a net between between myself as a content creator or producer or entrepreneur and my audience and my customer and that net are these third party platforms you know imagine if my phone only imagine if I called you only one out of every 10 of my phone calls went through that's what social media is because you put out a piece of content and no matter how big your audience is only a small fraction of that audience really receives that message and it's in competition with everybody else who's on that platform playing you know it's a very big sandbox and a lot of busy activity so we so our interests are not aligned with the platform's interests we don't own the data so we don't know who our customers are you know I want to on one of my live streams of the day which I had 20 people on there with an audience of 200,000 on IG I'm not going to get you about it okay it is what it is but I had I had an artist on there uh to group called it's 99% and they were saying the same thing they say we've sold over a million records and we don't have a single email address of the people that we've sold to but iTunes has it and of course they do you know and this is exactly what Ryan's been talking about what Leslie's been talking about so your interests are aligned with the platform's interests you don't own the data and your messages aren't getting through you know all your messages aren't getting through so those three problems combined makes it a real challenge to connect with your audience in a way that can give you the maximum results for all the work you're doing and if you're an artist if you're an entrepreneur if you're a creator of any type our whole life is creation our whole life is making something that we hope our audience enjoys and if we put it out there and we don't know who we're connecting with and we don't have the bandwidth to hit everybody then we're wasting a lot of our energy and time and that energy and time is money so we got to take that energy and time back by going dark well what's dark dark social is anything that's not on the public face again not a problem that public social media exists i'm not gonna leave my account i work way too hard to build those things and it costs me a lot of money to build them too okay but that's the top end of the funnel so people find you through your public channels but they're not going to buy with you in this at the same rate through the public channels as they will through the private channels so what are the private channels text messaging and phone calls that's what super phone is being used for and we could talk about how i'm using that and it's like i know i'm rambling but like i'm have this just keep going okay text messaging phone calls direct mail imagine if you were an artist and you started sending out direct like postcards to people it just it's so bizarre that it would stick because people just don't do it and you can do it it's not that expensive i mean it's gonna everything cost some money so don't complain about how much money it just figure it out it's gonna cost money but whatever um direct postcards direct mail and email email still gets filtered to a certain extent and there is a there is a bandwidth uh you know restriction on everybody not doesn't open all your emails but that's still private channel those channels are the channels where you build intimacy and intimacy is much more important than volume when it comes to at the end of the day engagement and engagement is what sells and that's why artists like Russ who well i guess now he is like he is signs a major but like that's why artists like him can build up to the point where he can sell out a stadium but he's also not Drake you know because of intimacy over time the connection with the audience and that Kevin Kelly would say you know a former editor of wire magazine a thousand true fans that's how you build it and you can take them from the public space to the private space and let them feel like they know you and really get to build that relationship with them then they'll do whatever you want okay deep not why deep not why not why yeah i mean i love the fact that you touched on of course that conflict of interest that happens with social media i mean it truly is i always try to explain to people understand the business model of these five forms yes they will seem like the best place in the world at the beginning it's the same curve what i love about the business is the fact that there's patterns and it is so predictable all right these platforms are going to welcome everybody with open arms and give all the incentive in the world for great content and really push for that but once they hit a threshold where they have used up they have those tentacles right and you can't get away because there's this network effect right once that exists now they can start moving away from that and now things start to be hey let's make this money we know they're not going to leave is that really is that bad relationship where you stay when you know you should have points right and and i love the fact that you're not just doing the the dark social thing but you're going all the way with it right because that's when you're going to find the best results and oftentimes just as somebody in entrepreneurial myself and i mean just as a person who's always self-improving and trying to work on habits i found that a lot of times if you try to add things on slowly it just doesn't work right there's some things that you of course is it's more about let's be incremental and let's do compound effect but there's some things where if you don't just go all the way and just cut the core you're not going to do it period or you're not going to find the the results and somebody else going to come behind you and do way better at it and you're you're going to be like fuck yeah yeah yeah momentum momentum momentum momentum is everything it's more or or a lot okay that's why on every piece of my content now i'm just putting the phone number on every piece every piece and every piece that you can call me right now plus one because i'm in the us 704 3436659 super phone will hit you back to put your info in there and then after that it's all me it's actually me you know i say that on all my content just because even if you only pick up one person from each time you say that if you're saying it a million times the people will be there you know exactly exactly and i think that's a good philosophy and understanding with marketing in general right sometimes you just have to go for frequency and realizing that i can't expect the greatest gain and particularly in an era when we have this content that we can create for less right you're not spending much well you know whatever you the way your production value is but outside of that just to get it distributed you're not really spending that much extra money so not worrying about the greatest ROI for one piece of content and getting caught in that paralysis and i'm speaking to artists especially because i know that so many um you guys or people just who haven't taken that that jump i have friends who want to start a youtube page but they still have this anxiety about their first video and it's been two three years now right just getting out there and doing it again and again there's going to be this this exponential effect over time but you don't allow for the cumulization because that that's where the game is won honestly but you never can get to the win if you just don't start and put it out there but it's all ego we say it's fear and or we use all these other words but really like you're insecure and i i get it everybody has that so when we talk about social and the fact that you're going to be going dark one i want to say what got you to the standpoint of that comment where you say you can just post and you might just add something and don't worry about it what got you there mentally and then after that what got you to the idea where you say you're going to go all the way in terms of being dark uh so i mean so you're saying the first part is like what got me to the point where i was comfortable enough just to even be on social and be publicly producing or have that mindset even why when you apply to the number right i'm just going to put it on everything because some people might say um maybe i'm only going to put my number on it when it makes sense i don't want to like they get into that mind they think a different build um a lot of different things i mean it's just time in the game and understanding like how it works you know i think that we really underestimate this is Bill Gates we underestimate what we can do in one year we overestimate what we can do in one year but underestimate what we can do in five like i don't i don't know what effect me have me saying my number every time if you do because content is going to have in 90 days hopefully it will do well but in five years it i'm i'm certain it will crush i'm certain you know and um i've just been through enough cycles at this point of where i've been through business ups and downs i've built an audience to this point i know i know that it's a lot of smoke and mirrors with like you can have a big audience and it doesn't produce revenue and you can have a small audience or you can not even be on social and be killing it so there's no correlation between the numbers necessarily like the number of subscribers you have a number of followers you have and how much revenue you can make to a point you know obviously it'll be great if i have three million followers but i don't need three million followers make three million dollars um so the frequency factor is just really important because one you get comfortable with it two you realize that like you never know what piece of content is going to hit somebody you know so you never know which piece of content is going to get shown to who and what's really going to resonate with them so you might as well you know you might as well give everyone the opportunity every time they connect with you to get you know to to have to start that you know that value chain to start moving down that funnel and and it these things are memorable i mean shit mike jones two eight one three three oh eight zero zero four i have no song forever you know the original social handle and um that stuff sticks and so you know there's just there's no downside to it and it's all there's no downside it's all upside it's all cumulative this whole game is cumulative there's no exponential success i think we've been brainwashed by like stories of like people making it in x amount of time or like billion dollar evaluations of companies that grew unicorns overnight like we've been brainwashed we're thinking that things should happen with these like these meteoric rises but that's really not the reality of what most of product building company building audience building is so just get that out of your head and be comfortable with with the mundane part of it which is just like okay today i'm making this content and i'm putting my phone number on it and there will be a point that's an inflection point where all the stuff you've done will if you're doing the right caught it the right the right content to the right audience over time that compound interest will create inflection points where it will seem like overnight something happened and it's like you know like for instance putting your content on all your shit and then you know you get coverage from a big media source and then people start looking at all your content and now all your content has your phone number on it so it explodes because every piece has it on there but you could only have that from seeing it it's like bamboo grows underground for eight to ten years and then on your 10 it explodes it can go 20 feet overnight but there was still growth happening underground you know it wasn't like zero growth in and everything there's processes happening and that process for you is the consistency of the day after day and then allowing that allowing yourself to get smarter so that you can be more effective and that's when you'll explode interesting i love that you say that because i tell people now because of consumer behavior has shifted to binging essentially right and you want to make sure you have everything there that catalog of information or whatever that is there once people have you have people's attention you need to make sure you have everything in place to maximize that attention and in the same way we've condensed the fan funnel where i can hear an artist song and now i might look him up and say oh snap this artist has been releasing stuff or they have a whole project for a minute and i become there so i just listen to all their stuff the same thing with the tv show the same thing if you're a marketer with the funnels that you create but i'm working on so funnels right now just got out of a meeting where all right i know i'm creating this content this content this content this content not expecting anything from it in the next three months but i know a lot of the other things that happen when the when everything starts to pop all these funnels will go and then literally all the ties will rise it just takes that one piece of thing and i think we hear that so much with artists but just in general it's like the catalog whatever you're doing currently just consider your catalog is also why i think things like snapshot have struggled because the incentive that isn't there in terms of you you haven't been able innately how was designed right to create that catalog where now you get that effect it's kind of antithetical to just business and brand right so it's every you have to create every single time and maintain but i'm shifting to you with the social what is you explain what going dark is like those platforms the email the text the direct mail which is just crazy the direct mail but what is your plan to implement it and i would love yet especially if you can walk through some of those examples of you showing it earlier so people can kind of all right yeah of what that looks like practically all right i'll walk through it one more time okay so first of all like again you just want to use it's all leverage right so it's like you want to use the weight of these big giants their advantage so you can use public platforms to build your private your private platform um so one of the things i've been testing so so super phone if you guys don't know i'm not getting paid for this but superphone.io is where you can go there's there's more than uh one text platform there's one called community now um which i haven't tried but there are some things i'm unsure of about it that i don't necessarily like as much as super phone um but can you touch on that really quickly yeah yeah um one of my Ryan Leslie stand but that's beside the point uh two um community like one thing that i've noticed is that um they are focusing really heavily on big influencers grabbing big influencers to promote the brand and i think that um it's watering down the message because everyone knows that diddy's not really texting with you and superphone is designed its position is one is one of like a one-on-one connection the way to position it is this is my actual phone so i think it's more helpful to people who aren't mega celebrities too there's a tech issue which i realized which superphone when you get into the systems and you start sending out messages you realize that they make you put a personalized f name tag in all the messages meaning you have to have like hey Sean this is daniel here's today's message or whatever you have to put a tag in there and i asked them why they did that because there are sometimes when i want to send messages why i don't want to have the first name in there um and they said that one thing they found was that um if you take out the first name and you only have the text and it's not personalized that means that when you send out a blast every text is the same and a lot of carriers block that at spam um because you know if you have 10 000 phone numbers and you send out 10 000 of the same hey what's up concert tonight blah blah blah a lot of text carriers see that as 10 000 the same message they're gonna block that because that's spam and i just that was just one example of i've seen a lot of the thought that superphone put into some of their features and like how they do things i'm like you guys aren't just making a product to make products you actually put a lot of thought into the user experience around this and i appreciate that you know actually there's a solid team um but in terms of like examples so the first thing is and i'm testing all this stuff so i'm i'm in the testing phases uh you know take what you want and see how it works for you the first thing i'm doing and i'll share my screen with you here um is i'm running ads to my phone number which is like kind of again it's a little bit like antithetical because you're like wait a minute you're using the platform that you're bashing to get people to the private platform again i'm not bashing it i just want to know how i can utilize it to my best advantage here's an example of ad i'm screen sharing on this this is an ad i'm running uh i'm tired of social let's have a real conversation texting me on myself as advice the advice is my little is my little slogan like it's like i'm zaddy and then it's advice and advice and uh my number and there's a little subtle branding because it's like my little hashtag there and then i'm wearing my shirt and it's kind of distorted so it's a little bit of tension grabbing makes me look very light so i'm a little bit darker than that in real life and then uh there's my number and so i'm testing this now and i'm running this only to my warm audience and people who are on my email list and people who are on who are engaging with my social platform so it's just it's a kind of a closed circle because what i'm doing here is i'm not trying to bring awareness of me i'm just trying to convert existing fans who are already in my orbit because i figure like if you don't know me why would you text me so you don't need to know you this doesn't need to go any wider because it might just be an audience so this is one thing that i'm using which you know i'll see the results of this we'll see as it goes like what the results are on this another thing i'm doing is uh like i'm at the bedroom now but i have hoodies and sweatshirts that printed out just for my own personal use well when i do talks now it's just a giant phone number you know and it's like text for his advice it's just my giant phone number so now when i get on video of me doing talks on in public for talks it's just very i know it's a little corny you know but like i don't care um like it works does it work like like even a few years ago the baby was going around in a diaper so true what do i care you know you know so i'm going around with my phone number um and obviously i'm putting my phone number on every single piece of content i actually might even change the main headline of my website to just be my phone number so i'm just like being as obvious and almost obnoxious as i can with that just because people who already like me will do it people who don't care don't care so the matter um so that and then if you want i can walk you through how i use this in a real use case yeah do it okay i think it's gonna be super useful super useful so imagine you are you know i mean you can be an artist or you can be um you can be a consultant or a coach or an entrepreneur who's doing service-based stuff i mean this is widely applicable like you can you can think about this and don't think about my specific use case think about how you could use it but um i have a i have a an existing text message list so just a background on how i got that um i've been i've been in this game for you know many years now and i was like smart and or fortunate enough to like have enough foresight to say maybe this data will be useful one day so i've been collecting phone numbers for years even though so like i already had the seeds of a sift lord i was going dark early i knew that i was going to need this info but i'd never really used it you know so i've been collecting phone numbers since 2000 honestly 2014 um so that'll give you some context to how long this takes um and i've been collecting them because i was doing when i was doing webinars every week i would use text messages for reminders um just like one off reminders i um for a while i had there was another service called call loop which i don't use anymore and i wouldn't recommend but i was using them for text messaging this is like maybe five years ago so like i knew there was potential there but i didn't i wasn't fully on board but i do have the numbers deep in my database and like again it just shows you how useful data is like it's all about the data you know a quick little aside here uh when when dollar shave club sold to Gillette for a billion dollars they weren't selling their razors they were selling their customer list okay because Gillette did the math and they said it will cost us more than a billion to get all these customers who are on subscription recurring revenue we might as well pay you guys a bill and we'll just take the customer list they're paying for data you know everything is data when you sell a company you're selling the data of that company especially if it's a recurring business anyway data is very useful so i have this data um from years of like writing blog posts online and doing social media content and running ads so that's what i say i spent a lot of time and money to collect this stuff and you will too because this is a long-term player for you artists out there you entrepreneur whatever this is the long-term place so i have about 12 000 phone numbers 11 and a half thousand and um i you know i brought him back from the dead recently in fact i only started texting these people the week of christmas you know just to see if it would work i'm just like let me import this stuff and see if it works and i sent out my first like happy holidays text and people a lot of people were like you know fuck you like unsubscribe you know get me off of this thing a lot well i mean you know from illicit 12 000 you know even if it's like 200 people that's a small percentage but it's a lot of fucking use um but check this out on a list of 12 000 i only got one dick pic which i thought was amazing you know in terms of ratio ratio like you think it would be more right only one big six sick people so but but then what i learned was some of these people but here's my assumption my guess was that this data was okay people don't change the phone numbers nearly as often as they change the other things um i still have my phone number from when i was in high school so i knew a lot of these numbers would still be good and um and although i did get some people who were like fuck you take me off this list i got a ton of people who were like oh my god daniel i can't believe you're texting me this is amazing wow i've been following your work for how many years because my assumption was if you've been following my social on my email list and you still like my stuff if you got a text from me you wouldn't mind it like that would be okay you know if i got a text from my favorite author who's a new york times best-selling author who you watch been following him all this bullshit you'd be like that's pretty cool and then if he actually texted you back your mind will be blown you know so i did it and it worked and so like okay this is gonna work so the next like you know in a week and a half later like once the holidays hit no no this was like this was this was like this was like dissent like the last week in december i just said i'm gonna test this out and i sent out a text to 11 000 people i'm like hey i'm i'm thinking of doing a live meetup in la on you know on january 4th which is just last weekend as of this recording so i gave them less than a week to decide usually people like when i've done a lot of live events and usually people need like some some lead time just to like get the schedules and i just want to see what would happen so set out this this text and from the 11 000 people i got 100 people to say yes i'm interested in learning more about that now the conversion around that isn't like super high but the same time it's the first time i've ever done this they're still learning that i'm texting them like there's some warming up to do right i was 100 people is still a lot and i know this because like i have a 44 000 person email list and it would be harder to get 11 or it would be harder to get 100 responses of a yes from the email list probably that would be from the text just because i know open rates i know like just or even on social media like i have over 200 000 just on instagram and i could do that shout on instagram and i wouldn't get 100 responses that say yes probably just because of exactly you just don't it just doesn't work as much as you think it does i could put it up on a story and i can have a thousand people see that i'm not going to get 100 responses so like to get that from my text message this i was like it's pretty solid and and a lot of people probably didn't respond just because they weren't in la so why would they respond to that i was going to ask you did you target based on location well the thing is because this is old data like when you when you get people in superhold for the first time it makes the put their location down but if you if i'm just importing data all i have is their name their phone number and their email address so i don't have all that data and i'm still enriching the data you know i'm still enriching it so i don't even have great targeting right now i'm still getting there but so this is the clear what is enriching the data mean well you're a tech guy um you know it's like enriching the data is like adding additional information adding additional fields of info to the data you already have and getting more complete data you know so if you only have an email a phone number and a name i want to get your location your birth date and your sex and all that stuff so i can geotag you and and so what's been happening is when people text me back and i realized i don't have all the information i'll say i have a little hot key on super phone that says hey i got your info from my old email list thanks so much you know would you mind filling this out so i can keep in touch so i have your complete info and then they fill that out and i get their enriched data where i get like their location and then that way when i come to their city i can say how many people are in new york and i can do my new york tag um but i didn't have this when i was making that meeting and that's going to take me all year to get the info like i'm not going to take me all year to get that info and i'm committed to that but so i got a hundred responses you know give or take and uh and then of that i said i email i texted them back and i said great here the here's the info and i sent them a little form and it was $50 um and i got it was $50 to the meetup it was less than a week and i got 30 people to sign up and i actually honestly missed some people who were interested so i probably could add more if i would it was a lot to but i got 30 people to sign up there's 50 bucks so it's 1500 bucks on the front end not bad text message from text message you know not bad on the front end but keep in mind i have bigger channels than this on the top and i have social media which is like well over i don't know 300 or 400k combined and then i have an email list which is like tens of thousands of people this is my smallest channel with one text message so think about the levels of magnitude there so you know purchases on the front end uh 1500 1500 bucks so there's a small amount of profit there because i pay for the space so anyway i get 30 people into the room this is last weekend you can go on my youtube channel you can see the recap of this event and um basically what i did was i did a three hour meet and greet seminar and a q and a should have been five hours should have been longer honestly um but it was three hours and uh then what i did was i sent out a feedback survey i'm going to show you guys this feedback survey because it's so just slick daddy i mean if you're a marketer you know slick daddy and i was trying to tell my wife about this she's like i just don't care um i mean she cares but you know it's like not even exciting for her it's a different kind of care it's a kind of care you know so here's the uh here's the type form because i was thinking like whenever you have a funnel you want to be able to follow up with people uh or whenever you have whenever you're making a sale on the front end i have learned this from a lot of events you want to be able to have something to offer on the back end because i mean it's just how business is it's just how it should run like you should have an offer otherwise it's like you're just wasting all that attention in the room like you just you know it's like they're in there in person if they're there they're close fans who like you why wouldn't you have something for them you know so what i did was um i sent in this feedback survey the feedback survey is very non-invasive because it does two things one it gets their feedback which they want to give their feedback and it gives them a chance to give me ideas for making the next events better and two it allows me to slip in a sale without sending them to a sales page because people will automatically like sales pages i mean they're fine they work but if they know they're going to a sales page they categorize it as this is the sales page i'm looking at and there's a barrier there so what i did was as you're seeing on the screen i have a survey um it says hey thanks so much for attending uh it was an honor to meet you it takes a moment for the feedback so i go through the full name and their information by the way i already have all this info the reason i asked for it again is just because you know from from doing this for many years i know sometimes you don't have complete information and you want to be able to like let's say i need to export this list i i just want to have all the info i don't want to have to go cross reference my database or be like yeah i just i've just done it too many times i'm just like give me your info again you know um i just you know i'm tired man okay because now you can say i want to well what if i would just want to do something specifically with the people who gave me feedback right and right no these are these people i have all the info but do i want to go through super phone and convert kit again no i don't know um so how would you rate the overall experience on a scale of one to ten by the way i'm starting off with low investment questions just to get them to start answering the survey that's some psychology there they're easy to answer um you know what would you uh how much would you how likely would you be to come back to another event low investment um now this is kind of like i mean it's a medium investment what would your number one takeaway and tell her breakthrough won't be an event um how can we improve the event next time uh what questions do you still have that you did not get to ask them at the event so these are allowing me to like tweak the events that i do in the future to just make them better um tweak the messaging and then here's the cool thing so i'm considering doing some mini coaching packages with 10 people from the event so what does that first of all say considering meaning it's not really a sale i'm just thinking about doing this are you interested to 10 there's a little bit of scarcity around that so it's like oh there's only 10 and then i thought about like having a whole sales phase and shit and i have all the coffee i can give but i don't i just didn't want to do a sales page i'm just like i don't want to do it you know so i just put this down for here you're going to get an hour of my time to go deep on your challenges and we'll develop a strategic plan for your business i'll also give you access to my entire profit paradigm business curriculum which is just my the the digital component of my coaching program um and i'll check up on you to make sure you stay on track by the way that checkup's going to be an automated checkup from super phone which they can hit me back on so investment is 350 would you like one of the 10 spots um and so they can click no and they'll just be taken to a page that says you know they'll submit it and they'll say thanks have a nice day thank you for your feedback but if they click yes it takes them right here to a payment page they put in their info um then it's hooked up with zapier zapier hooks up to to gmail gmail shoots them out a a message that says thanks here's where you can book that's hooked up to my calendar and they schedule on the call so what happens is all i do is send them out a feedback survey they go through this thing i get feedback and sales with no additional effort and i i opened up my phone the next day and i already saw bookings on my calendar and money on my stripe i was like excellent this is great you know and all this was and i didn't make any public office this is all internal so the only people who bought other people who chose to go down that that lane with me you know and that was how many text messages at this point uh i mean you know to my whole list it was i did one text message to my whole list one to your whole list one to my whole list i did um and then i did one follow-up to the hundred no i did two follow-ups to the hundred okay and then one follow-up with the survey so four text messages four text messages and this generated we got from the first send of this we got five bookings which five times 350 is you know like uh 1750 i think something like that so that's on top of the 1500 we already made so that's three plus grand and then i'll i'll i'll send this out again because it's all i'm doing is saying can i get your feedback which is much less aggressive than saying can i get you to buy so i'll send this out again it's ahead and get your feedback got us but really what i'm doing is i'm making sure they see the author um and so my goal with these is to low-key like i can get just 30 people to the event each time which i know will get better and better as they do more of these but if i can get just 30 people and make five grand off each event i'll do two of those a month i'll make an extra 10 grand that's an extra 120k a year from just like from like no there's like no no imprint of that like no one sees it on social i'm not emailing it out it's just a couple text messages and it adds extra 120k to my bottom line and all i'm doing is like simple automations and a little bit of texting love it love it no imprint on social you know it's hard to imagine but that's how things used to go down anyway right well exactly that's that's how and and that just goes to show you now and now i could go on social and i could try to you know build these spots with you know and i've done that for years i've done that and i could do i could do it that way um but it just it doesn't work as well for me because i like to be targeted now what was the open rate when you sent it to that and that's what this dark social allows the open rate on what so you sent that one text right what was the open rate on that one message that first message to the to everybody it's hard to say because they don't have statistics on open rates but i mean presumably you know text message open rates are very high you know if it's a good list it's going to be as high as 98% who knows you know but i can tell you i can tell you on other things like um i well i guess if it's a sign up i can tell you that i've had um like i'll have as high as like uh on a whole list send a five percent click through it which doesn't sound like a lot but like if i send a text message out to 11,000 people and i get 700 to 900 clicks that's a lot it might not sound like a lot but it's a lot because i know emails that and they're not like that you know um i mean if you know the influencer game if you talk about instagram stories oh people are so you know hyped up about swipe ups bro i've been on that game the swipe up click-through rate is low dude it's so low you know because people are just it's being fed to them and they don't they don't they're not programmed to do that but click through rates on text are really really good on my targeted stuff rather than sending out to 100 people i would get like 90 percent click-through rate and again it's all about targeting so it's like can you get fine enough where only the right people get the right message and if you can figure that out that's for me that's going to be an extra i mean if i can tweak this this will be an extra 120 to quarter million dollars a year just for me like doing these little 30 person events around the country you know like love it why couldn't you do this with music why couldn't you offer them a vip package why couldn't you offer them a meet and greet why couldn't you offer them you know um shit i mean some people would do collabs like i mean there's so much follow could be endless it's so many different directions and there's so there's um one artist that i'm not know what i'm like i'm gonna put this out there because i might want to work on that digital and do do the work for them but there's definitely some um a lot of artists that have the opportunity if you don't want to be out there in the normal way to still monetize and we're going to shift it on into a point where we see a lot of artists become strictly recording artists especially as social media has heightened things like social anxiety and create a difficulty around it and then touring isn't the life that everybody really is about anyway you don't see more and more people figure out how to monetize through content and experiences that are in person that are either more intimate right like social media recent things like you said or um are in person from a standpoint of i might be able to do a live digital concert i might or i might do a live this right with with a few people and play some stuff in the room and all those types of things you know to be honest if there like there's plenty of um like those live porn sites right that's that's essentially what it is right live jazz people exactly right but people are paying like for that personal experience and you can interact artists can do that you can do that i can do it why not anybody can do that it's that which actually weirdly reminds me i read somewhere and now it's kind of clicking something that apparently the porn industry has been at the head at um of most of our technological revolutions now virtual reality is being i believe it so i believe it which is which is a really interesting thing but it's there and when i asked you the numbers i was thinking so if you got 700 600 700 clicks from that text blast which knowing numbers that means you probably you definitely had in the thousands of opens right oh you know plenty of over because click through rates i mean yeah that's that's going to be three percent five percent so you definitely had what 9 000 opens 10 000 i don't know i mean my my click through like to give you an example on my email list you know hey you can say whatever you want about my email maybe my engagement could be better i don't know but i know that pre on industry standard for my for what my industry you know open rates are 10 to 20 and 20 would be high 20 would be high for my for that's open click through rate shon i'm not kidding you is point zero two on a good day click through rate yeah now maybe i'm just shit and i'm not good but i'm just telling y'all that's what i'm used to seeing on i have a much bigger list than i do text see and what i like to make this stuff comparable even so even when i try to position that there's still some value in emails well let's compare it to social media and the fact that instagram is throttling you know the the attention right so if we're looking let me if you don't mind i'm gonna pull up your instagram page i'm embarrassed go scroll down i have better engagement on the older one when people don't realize it's happening to everybody though and which i try to position until artists because it's like if you're going to be paying for influencers like if anybody everybody is being throttled so that means when you're supposed to think why would you talk about this one you like you you like the hazy shit huh i do i do wait is this you that's me yeah just different from that angle you look different right now i'm sorry you know so let's check this out this post 344 18 a thousand 181 just seen by a thousand people you have 223 thousand followers you sent out a text and got more people to actually open that and then click through that correct that's the that's what we're up against because again right at a point like you said the beginning of this talk where that conflict of interest is arising again with social media like we know as a matter of fact if you switch to a business profile and they see you start at it running ads a lot of people have noted and you know you could call it paranoia but you could but i feel like a lot of the proof has been in the pudding over the last years when they see you running ads they'll be you know decennabize your page even individually because they want you to keep running ads they say oh this is the right it's almost like they qualified you at that point right you know um i was there like a smart business idea for them it just sucks for me exactly and you can't be mad at there is no hating to do at the end of the day you were able to leverage this platform but to your point you don't own this platform so look at it as an opportunity a platform to borrow but understand that you're borrowing and bring it back to something that you own right that's simple yeah boom that's exactly it i appreciate the the live you know case study that you're providing because this guy drops quality content and he showed by the fact that he was able to do that from a text right that is not oh he just has like scammed and his profile is invalid people don't value him is just the fact that he's in a place where i'm sorry against him and most people are in that place right thank you brand man i feel validated now is this the reality i feel like the better people can look at it understand the macro game that's at play the better you can understand how to act in your micro game versus judging and looking at it person to person it's like no who's who really is behind all of this right who is the the curtains we like to be have conspiracy theories well it directly applies it's not even a conspiracy theory this is just how the company runs and it's not a good or bad thing it's just about how you how you're going to leverage it so i'm i'm curious man um based on like some of the things you've seen right you talked about the event that you you know you're probably going to scale up are the do you have any interesting ideas that you would like to leverage the whole dark social experiment with that you can talk about at this point yeah i mean one of the things i'm really excited about one of the things i've realized over the past couple years is that like i am uh an entrepreneur through and through but i'm also a creative and i really love doing out out of the box um like marketing that really that that forces me to leverage my creativity which is actually why i resonate with your content so much because you know you're like on the front end of it you're talking about music uh like the music marketing and the music industry but really it's just creative product launches it's like it's the same you know and you come from a tech background and so you have built you can play both sides you know both worlds but like it's really just creative product launching um but one of the things i want to start focusing on is doing physical mail which like nobody in my space is doing nobody's doing physical mail um so i'll show you this this uh this site because most people probably don't know about this um let me go here so this is postable and postable sends really really nice cards like postcards and newsletters and like like really well well done high quality stuff it's very cost effective and just like with your um super phone or any of the other data you have it i mean this is the data plate here so i'll log into my account here and um and what's so cool about this is that i have automated birthday cards that send out to all my like really close friends and i forget about these like i i genuinely forget about these and they my friends text me all the time they're like oh my god thank you so much for that card um because one like it really i mean it truly truly looks handwritten um and it like the sentiment it's from the heart but it's just like i mean you know okay these are my close friends um this is the this is the birthday card i've been sending out i got to switch the stuff so they don't get the same one two years in a row but it's um a new year trained ahead and then it says on it um it says on it let's say i'm gonna flip it over let's see what it says i'll try to figure out how to look to see what actually sends um so what it actually says but um let's see if i can go oh this is actually pretty cool i haven't been on this site in a while i mean it's so automated i don't even go on this sometimes let me see uh who do i have in the queue so i have so i have so i hear i have people who are in the queue so i have like my friend dane his birthday was on christmas amy's was sent matt is in the uk and i know he got his i have a few coming up who i know are going to their house um and what this does is allows me to get automated touch points with my friends from a really hand from from like a like a like an actual like a genuine perspective because it is my intent to give them this touch point and allows me to do it at scale so what i'm gonna do with this is i'm gonna see if i can show you my address book it's pretty cool this is similar to superphone um there's a link that you can get for postable here where you can pass this out and this is my postable link nice background man which one is that i was an iron man yeah yeah you know just gotta stay inspired um so this is my postable like it's very similar to what would happen on superphone so what i'm gonna start doing is bringing people on into like those concentric circles right so like social media is my biggest audience and then email and then text message and the people who want to get on the deep end side are going to be on my personal mailing list and so i'm going to probably quarter three of this year i'm going to start where i'm like hey i'm working on this new newsletter where only my best people are going to be getting this i'm going to send i'm going to send them this form which is my postable and then i'm going to be able to get their like even more information again enriching this data because like for instance superphone has their birthday but it won't have their it won't have their mailing address so it's like even the data um and i don't necessarily need to ask them for their mailing address until i really need it which is like you know now um and so i'm gonna i'm gonna give them to fill this out and then i'm gonna start doing physical mail and then that physical mail i'm gonna start sending out updates of my next meetups and seminars i'm doing you know collaborations birthday cards if imagine if you're just a casual fan of mine or like a super fan and you get a birthday card from me you know and so now i have concentric circles where on the outside of my social media it's all of my content all the time on the inside my daily newsletter where i'm always sending you my thoughts via email then you're getting texts from me on a weekly basis a few times a week and then you're getting mail from me it's like on every level i'm touching you and i don't have to be aggressively offering things when i have that set up i can just drop it in the field and the interest of people will buy it you know i'm saying yeah i mean there's a lot of beauty in that from the standpoint of um well it reminds me of what you said earlier you said that this is going to take a year when you were just talking about text messages alone but yeah and you're completely fine with that so i want people to realize that this type of thing is a long-term strategy but again once the work is done the foundation is laid your competitive advantage compares to anybody behind you like there's there's a ceiling because most people won't be able to just start tomorrow even people who have audiences especially when you add on the fact that current attention is already being suppressed on it like those people who ever already have a follow they're not gonna be able to just send out a message and say hey hurry up and follow me now it's only too late you're not going to be leaving get that attention out to them that quickly it's all a game so and as a matter of fact i think this is a perfect depiction of what i try to explain to people but it's hard to conceptualize sometimes that all strategies like on my channel when you hear me talk about stuff then which is the value of the back end conversations and the smaller and the more close parts of the funnel because all strategies are not something that can be utilized at one time right like sometimes for one you can't do everything at once right because if you're doing one strategy you literally might be diluting the other strategy but also from the standpoint of if you hear this strategy it might not apply to the level that you're on right now and why that is a perfect example is until you get the numbers right and go through that process you're not even able to do the whole milling car thing in the effect of it that's what i'm saying this is this is q3 maybe even q4 and i'm not stressed on when it has to happen i just have it in mind that this is the next step you know and once i have that data it's forever you know and i know that and i know that it's only gonna and and when you when you're that deeply into someone's life or they feel like you're really i mean you really kind of are in sync with them um you don't have to push hard for the sale you just mention it and it sells itself when you're on the outside and you have to do everything via the public platform by social media you have to push a lot harder because you got to say bye bye bye bye bye and flood the message flood it all over the place you know listen listen listen you know engaging each engage but when you're several levels deep and you understand like okay there's a top end with social media and there's the email list and there's the text and there's the dark mail you can target the circles that are going to have the greatest impact on the project you're trying to create and you can do it with much less effort it's like in martial arts you know you understand how to use your energy in the most efficient way rather than always using strength so i would much rather have a mailing a physical mailing list of 400 people you know that took me a year and a half to build but when i send a letter out to them i can sell out you know a ten thousand dollar program in two weeks and with with no with no imprint on my other channels because you're getting this message and you're targeted you know all branding on the front end all brain on the front end actually i found the entire list card so i can show you i mean but the handwriting is so good that they're all like i i even get people to say like i haven't got a handwritten card in years i'm like wow the laser printing is very good on this um here how one of these before and i was trying to figure this shit out because just being a marker i'm like is no fucking way to this shit but i couldn't disprove it being not written that's how good it is yeah wishing you happiness this year and every year i know you'll accomplish your goals and i'm incredibly lucky to have you in my life i'm always here for you i mean don't here's the thing and and right unless he was talking about this too this is a genuine sentiment i absolutely mean this because i'm sending this out to people that i actually really care about so this what this does is this just automates a touch point for them to get back to me for us to continue the conversation so this sends out to them they get this card and then they text me and say thank you so much for that card and i say you're so welcome love you man like you know hope you have a great day and that's a genuine real conversation this just made sure that the people that i care about don't fall through the cracks so so that's why this episode was so important and um and that's why i wouldn't want to i wouldn't try to get the mailing address of of people on the highest end of the funnel because i don't care about people who just are aware of my content more people who already bought all the way in people who spent you know thousands of dollars in the people who have who've consumed my content since i've been writing since 2012 those are the writer dies and i want them to know how much i appreciate them and they will at the at the very end of the funnel you know right right yeah cool yeah i appreciate you pulling that up and seeing that message i think for it's such an obvious thing every time all right like i already that's why i told you when we um we spoke earlier i took i think we're on ig but i said i was going to be looking heavily into it or committing to it more in the second quarter one being the things i got to focus on the you know the thing that we talked about earlier but when when i look at artists and and when i look at just anybody who's any kind of public image and then i hear ryan leslie talk about it it's like every time i hear him talk about it the shit makes too much sense too much sense it makes too much sense so i get i get mad when when i hear him talk about it and i haven't acted enough on it right i was getting mad i was getting mad that's why i'm like oh fuck like i really gotta commit to it because i download super phone last year i'm like this is too much of a learning curve i gotta do i'll do this later yeah but but the the thing is they're turning down the organic reach every day so every day that i don't convert the audience i lose the ability to convert them because exactly look at my facebook page i have 21 000 fans on there and i can't even get a single fucking like and that will be my instagram page in two years yeah so all you need your best bet is going to be doing a reach at retargeting everybody yeah you know which which is genius on their part again i can't be mad but just understand the game and you know play it and i was even thinking like for artists why not do like i mean why not build your text lists and do like private intimate concerts with like a hundred people and rent out a venue and charge like 150 bucks for it but like make it really dope spend five grand putting together the show and have like food and drinks and a great setup where lighting film it keep 10 for yourself put five into the production use the content that you get from that event to promote more events and you're making 10 grand to show now and you're new easy easy and people 150 people pay it out for nosebleed at Kanye you know and and i mean i think that's a combination of two things one nipsey hustle when he sold his project for what was it a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars one of those right when he sold for that and he but he put the attention into the packaging people slip on packaging packaging is that really dictates how much people pay for stuff right like the package or how much your they'll pay for it and be happy right and i think when you understand that you can get get get more from customers but put that if you put that energy truly into the experience everybody will be happy you're from a branding standpoint you did something to doper that you probably wanted to do creatively anyway customers love your brand everything works better that way so a combination of that nipsey idea then ryan leslie doing the concerts in the castle that he was doing yeah like that and how long would it take you to start making 10 grand to show as in like the traditional way it would take you a minute you know like a minute like a good minute because you have to really prove yourself but if you're just like what do i say do it myself you know like okay i'm gonna do it myself and yeah you don't need that many people to make that happen for yourself and it just takes that consistency and not being afraid or embarrassed to like say hey this is how i'm gonna want to contact you make it happen you can mic jones it in your song you can put it on all your it'd be the first comment on your youtube link and just make it part of your process like the thing about marketing is it's always a process like even if it looks like magic there's always some sauce in there it's like there's a process for how we're intentionally creating this content it's intentionally created to create results it's not random and even the even the big artist that looks like they just will have some intentionality behind it you know you have that video on trippy rad where you're like yeah he looks like he just came out of nowhere but like here's this is the son of the guy who owns atlantic and like there's all this shit going on yeah yeah and even when you see these big artists by the way just so you don't compare yourself to other artists social media platforms just so you know from being behind the scenes of like a lot of influencers people who have big followings a lot of people are paying for traffic to the pages just so you know okay they're paying for and instagram is constantly changing the algorithm changing what you can do but tons of artists are paying for followers and engagements and comments they're doing that because it makes the numbers look better and you come back in the elections in the political elections you know they we we found that like you know when when trump was running like they did a they did a survey of like his twitter followers and they found that like you know 45 percent of them were fake that they were all purchased you know it's just like these games are this smoke and mirrors and you just need to be aware of that so if you see someone else you're like oh they got how they get so big so fast part of it is artificial inflation and intentional image management like we call it the optics intentional optics management of how this looks because then if they have three million followers then they can go and they can go to a radio station to get more players they can go to a record label and say this or that i know people who you know when when it comes to books you know people buy copies of their own book to get on the new york times list like it's it's a game it's a game i didn't do that i have i know people who pay people to write their book and then buy all their own books so they didn't write the book and they didn't sell the book but now they're new york times best-selling authors and i'm over here so i'm over here salty because i hit number 11 and just so you know number 11 doesn't get the fucking sticker you only get sticker if you're once you head you know how bad i was you know what i was about that but at the same time i sold i really did write it and i really did sell it so it's like you're not comparing the same thing you know you sound like an artist right there right that's the exact same game in the same struggle in that particular space is literally oh the charts they're read they're people paying for these i actually wrote my song i didn't have it good that's the exact struggle you you lived it through and through when i when i signed with my publisher you know um because i'm because this first book was with penguin random house which is the equivalent of an Atlantic records the big label you know when i signed with them i mean do we still have time when i talk about this no yeah you gotta go ahead okay when i signed with them um they asked me straight up to like so who do you want to write your book i'm like come again like like they expected me to get someone to hire someone to write the book wow that's crazy i've written everything up to now why would i have to hire someone else to write this and i just want to give you um a quick little snippet on like what numbers look like on the publishing side because the next books that i'm creating this year are going to be all independently published i have two possibly three books i'm dropping this year and they're all self published and again you know ryan with the huge inspiration for that and just like chance and following these like independent artists were like really intelligently and intelligently navigating the system and you know i'm grateful for having this book out and it's reached a lot of people you know we sold 10 to 1000 copies but i also haven't seen a single dime since my advance my advance on this was 150 150 thousand dollars which is good for our first book advance 150 k plus 15 k for audible so it's 165 k okay now that advance will split up over four payments over two years yeah four payments over two maybe two and a half years so it's like i didn't get all at once 15 percent of that goes to my agent so i'm walking away with maybe 120 before taxes over two to three years so that's not really that much money at all um and the way that it works with book publishing i'm not sure how it is with records i'm sure there's a similar you know it's like i have to pay back that advance before i make any actual money off with the wealthies of the book and but they don't count a sale for a sale the book sales this hardcover sells for i don't know like almost 30 bucks hardcover maybe 25 but they only count a percentage of that hardcover price as attributed towards my advance so maybe they only count five to ten percent of that as going towards the advance so i need to sell like 50 to 100 thousand copies before i see any more money back probably more than that before i see any money from the actual it's very hard and these are books not even music okay maybe music maybe i don't know books okay people even reading one um but check this out i sold um i sold 30 000 copies of this book okay let's just save for a shade first it's a lot for for a sake of argument let's just say that that's at a 20 dollar cover price now 150 k up front minus 15 percent for my agent over two years or if i had sold it all myself on amazon just self-distributed that's six hundred thousand dollars so i missed out on 450 grand by publishing with the big publisher yeah i got in the bookstore yemen barnes noble my mom loved that shit but like at the end of the day you know i'm out 450 k and that's you know and i did all the more the the publisher shon didn't do anything the reason why they signed with me for that amount was because they knew i already had the numbers to drive the sales they only wanted me because i could already do the work you know they didn't get me on trevor noa i said get me on trevor noa i never got on you know you know that's see i mean that's something that i was thinking about earlier that we got a touch on the fact you you have the platform to do it the marketing but that's a huge aspect that this takes out right you don't have to pay as much for marketing so let alone the fact that you get a bigger cut of whatever you're selling let alone the fact you get higher open rates and all those things the fact that your marketing is not zero but it gets far closer to zero then you would get your running ads and all the other things that you would do as a matter of fact it actually creates more opportunities because now you can get ROI on certain opportunities that you wouldn't even do because you couldn't get ROI like i can now just text message oh then you bam get a ROI on that we're in doing a facebook ad in a lot of cases but depending on your size and the brain and all that stuff you wouldn't be able to even fill out that fill up that venue or the how much you would have to invest wouldn't be able to bring back the ROI that will make it worth doing so no i think i think we're going to get to a point hopefully right or hopefully not right just makes it better for people like us where people start to ignore the vanity as much because the vanity always dilutes the economics and the economics that's a quotable that's a quotable that's a quotable vanity dilutes economics in most cases in most cases sometimes not the same most times are not yeah not to mention the fact that at the end of the day i don't actually own this book i can't you know i'm saying i don't own the publishing to this so technically it's illegal for me to give out ebook copies of this for free if i wanted to technically well yeah i don't i don't own it you know because Random House owns this the way that they make money is they buy every single book and hope that three of them a year explode you know Barack Obama yeah Barack Obama got a 40 million dollar advance for for two books he's taking all my money i'm not going to get a better advance now because Barack's taking all my money you know so which now big publishers aren't dead because you know Penguin Random House they own like the majority of the publishing rights to most of the big versions of the you know king james version of the bible and like they own so many like i never thought about it just weird to think that somebody owns it yeah i mean i don't own the bible but like they own all the popular versions of it so it's like they're printing money forever publishing is not dead by any stretch of the imagination but it just doesn't make sense for me you know and i'm working on another book this year and i i pitched it to my agent and she loved it and then i was like wait a minute no no no no no no no wait why would i want to do this again and in person if you ever watch an hour and a half into this interview which i know you won't i still love you and maybe we'll work together in the future but i'm just saying i can't you know i'm not going to lose half a million dollars again on this i'm sorry i can't do that yeah you know i mean it doesn't make sense that you're an entrepreneur right but but with Martin Luther king like that no no he had a dream of me getting paid for my work hey as a matter of fact his dream right the his second dream or he fired focusing on the money is the thing that people had a problem with we want to go in a direction so don't ask why i have an action figure further away over here so i think that it sounds like what you said about publishing is what i've started to see and this is my thesis for pretty much everything when we think about content and and where the value is which has kind of been that way what has been that way low key but people haven't talked about it and today makes it even more relevant ip right is the game right it's not rich 20 something it's rich 20 something the ownership of it and being able to repurpose that because rich 20 something can now easily in today's democratized content era become a web series it could come but end up becoming the tv show it could become a movie t t-shirts everything and not owning that right and that's what the publishing is about and like a comic book there's so many different things outside of that primary thing you created for and you think you're just giving out that but the products as those might seem to become commoditized and lose value the ip is ever increasingly more valuable because of these additional ways we can distribute things and flip things you know you i mean you know that i mean sit even even disney uh if you saw the most recent star wars they're still because they have the rights to the princess leia character able to put carrie fisher in a star wars three years after she's dead and they're able to reanimate her have you seen that new movie i haven't seen that okay they reanimated her well i mean because you know i mean they're basically two pock you know they put they brought two pock back to whatever you know hologramder that's a while ago it's crazy after she passed and we can see years legally legally they and actually what ended up happening was because i was watching the movie and i was so distracted by the fact that leo was still in it that i almost couldn't focus on the movie and i'm watching the movie i was i was researching this while the movie was playing and i'm like originally they're they're i'm not going to spoil this for you originally there the whole the script was for princess leia to be like the last jedi and her to be doing the jedi stuff but when she passed they're like oh well we got to change the script but we can't cut leia out of it because we need her she's like part of the story so they took archived footage from 2015 when she was shooting the first part of the new installment which was episode six or seven i believe seven they took archive footage from that they reanimated her with 3d and like you know how they have like deep fake technology where you can be like it's deep fake it's like extremely good 3d renderings that are indistinguishable from actual people they rendered her and then they used her dialogue from existing movies to create a script that she could actually say and then if you see in the movie she never actually moves she's always standing in place or she's laying in bed but they animated her mouth to move it's completely believable there's no it's completely believable yeah and they own the rights to that character so even though she's dead they can legally recast her in a movie geez man bro and that kind of sucks when you think about it from that that i'm sure her family's getting paid i'm sure her family's getting paid for it but it's just like it's creepy yeah yeah you know i guess there's no way to write her out i'm sure it was a hard i'm sure it was hard for the i'm sure it was hard to deal with that but i'm just saying yeah it just shows how deep the ownership goes for companies like disney and facebook like they when they own the content and they own the ip they really own it even if you die you know so be careful who you give the ip2 because it's not just about you now it's about your kids you know now it's about the legacy and so you know it's just something to think about for all creatives like it's not just about creating the work it's about securing a foundation that will generate fruit like you don't eat the seed today you plant it and all of our creative works are planting seeds that will become the fruit the seed isn't the food it's the fruit you know so all the creative work that you're doing should be a seed for new opportunities for you they should include your marketing hooks not and if you think it's corny get over yourself they should include your marketing hooks they should include a clear pathway to get from awareness to purchasing they should include um you know they should include strong branding and like all that should be intentional it's not going to have by accident if it does my one of my philosophies is you know if you work hard you'll get lucky but if you get lucky you still got to work hard you know even if you do blow up if you don't figure out how to capture that lightning you will become one hit wonder because you don't have those systems in place so you talk about this in your channel you know because i've been to your channel appreciate it man hey well look i i think that's plenty of valuable content man i i definitely i want to put it out there i want to have you on again as you progress through this and kind of make you a living case study with the going dark so you know social and see what those updates look like and give people that idea hopefully inspire people to get more into it man i'm competitive you make me want to like really make sure i i do this man uh one of my partners he's already been doing it more than me lately so i i i understand superphone is is really the future to me i i don't think there's i feel like cell phones should have already acted that way i almost still struggle to understand why typical phones haven't started to do that with their address books to more depth but being able to be somebody who uses this stuff already and hearing the level that you're committed to it i already know that this is going to be very fun at this at the say the least you're gonna crush it you're gonna crush it just start giving out your phone number on all your videos you know i texted you with my super phone you texted me with your super phone i don't know if we're gonna actually talk to each other but our super phones know each other so i just kind of weird right super phone super phone you know i think you have my real i think you have my real number i mean it's all it all goes the same place i think i think that was the first time that i like did that with somebody too kind of well hey man i i appreciate you again hey everybody this is daniel d piazza look you can follow him on instagram but we're also going to put his number up you know somewhere just to get to him for obvious reasons you see the value from this interview the man offers tons of value a lot of great content he's someone worth following not just for like if you're an artist i think you need to be thinking as a business and understand business anyway and i think it's so much easier to learn sometimes from people like that and then come back to some of the general concepts conversations we have so you can connect it in in different ways when you see different applications for it but again follow this guy follow this guy follow this guy i appreciate you again daniel and do you want to leave them with anything in particular man you know um just just stop thinking like a consumer you know we've been programmed i've been saying that so much lately are we feared animals or did you see my video oh it's the same it's the same yeah i'm thinking like a consumer you know think like a creator and think like a business owner you know and understand that your role is different once you make a commitment to to really take a direction in you know to really to make a commitment in the direction of your dreams if you want to make this happen piece up whether you're a musician entrepreneur you know once you make that commitment and you decide this is what i want to do and this is who i want to be your role changes from one of just passively consuming everyone else's stuff to going on the offense and understanding how this game is played it's your responsibility to know this it's no one else's the tools are out there you know people like shawna putting these tools out there it's not a secret it's not going to happen overnight and if you can get to the point where you're enjoying the process it's going to be a lot easier but stop thinking like the herd because it's a lot harder to stand out when all you're doing is what everyone else is doing and if your job is to stand out as an artist then you have to start changing your perspective and it starts with watching videos like this doing stuff like this you can always hit me up you know my thing is that advice plus one seven oh four three four three six six five nine that's my cell you can text me it will send you a little automated thing i'll get your info and then it's actually me texting after that and um yeah i'm here for you so much love dope dope appreciate you once again as always everybody if you like this video go ahead to like button if you like you might as well share and if you're not subscribed you know what to do hit that subscribe button