 Good morning and welcome to our COP28 event dedicated to preserving communities through a coal to nuclear just transition My name is Jessica Johnson. I'm from nuclear Europe, and I will be moderating this event And as you can see we have three distinguished speakers with us today most notably here on the end Pat Dalzel from Bruce Power and a virtual from nuclear electrica and Jason Hansen from INL The coal to nuclear topic is really becoming a very If I could call it a buzzword I think within this just transition within this notion of moving away from coal to other technologies Clearly nuclear has a role to play and that's something that different parts of the world are looking at And so today I think I would like to start by inviting each of our speakers to make a short introductory Statement so they can just give us a bit of their perspective on this before we start heading into a panel discussion So maybe Pat if I could start with you could you give us a few first thoughts? Sure, absolutely and happy to be here looking forward to the discussion just a little bit of background on Bruce Power So Bruce Power we are situated on the shores of Lake Huron in in Ontario, Canada And from this facility we produce about 30% of Ontario's electricity So we are one of the largest sites in the world with eight can-do reactors We are a private sector operator in a p3 public-private partnership type structure where we Operate and invest in the in the site, which is still publicly owned To life extend the units and operate them out to the 2060s and beyond in addition to producing a lot of clean Electricity for the province of Ontario We also are a hub of production for medical isotopes in the number of years. We've been producing cobalt 60 Which is a long-lived isotope used to sterilize all kinds of medical equipment for example and also used in a type of Cancer treatment called the gamma knife Recently we've started producing an isotope called Lutissium 177 which is a medical isotope that's used to treat That's used to treat prostate cancer So reason I'm mentioning that is you know, we look we're always looking at different ways to innovate and bring forward new applications for the existing infrastructure, which has been so important in Ontario's coal phase out and and of course now Helping helping to ensure that we're stimulating the economy creating good jobs clean air and and now medical isotopes To add value and bring value to existing infrastructure in Ontario Thank you very much Pat if I could now hand over to you Anna to give us a bit of the perspective From from Europe because I think Romania really is the pioneer in this kind of coal to nuclear transition in the European region So if I could if you could say a few Initial remarks Firstly, thank you so much Jessica for inviting us here Obviously, we are incredibly pleased to see that nuclear is regaining its natural role and including by having quite a good presence here and more to come From Romania and from nuclear Electric we are very proud to say that we are the only one in Central Eastern Europe since the very beginning since more than Well early 70s so 68 we were the one who went with the North American technology with the can do technology We have two units operating and one of them is going now for the refurbishment And that will add a certain more years so practically is proving by investing in nuclear Even though maybe at the beginning you might say that it's a little bit more expensive But in the end when you do a calculation and it's math is science is not politics You will see that the source of energy from nuclear is one of the most affordable cheaper and quite frankly Reliable source of energy So nuclear electric is very proud of being the Romanian not just leading Company in the field but in Central Eastern Europe. We are top in the world again. Those are the charters We are operating at the safest You know level being up there in the first place and now we are Advancing and building two more units. And of course we are at the forefront of having the deployment of SMR's in in Europe believing that this new technology is a complimentary to the traditional Builds on the nuclear and will be very complimentary to all the other sources of energy. So coming back to Romania Yes, we are having this amazing expertise with more than 27 years now Of expertise and of course listening to you I was remembering that in cooperation with you as well and other strategic partners We are advancing to take the benefits and promote the other benefits from the nuclear not just in terms of the energy But on the health showing that actually in a nuclear It's it's more than just this great source of energy. It's it's about health It's about the environment and quite frankly And I'm very pleased to to see in the last year Debates now as I said gaining more and more Its role on the podium That you cannot achieve the decarbonization goals without the nuclear and I'm very very happy and by your personal efforts and Nuclear Europe we've been pushing and getting people a little bit more. I wouldn't say educated But at least showing what nuclear is about but Ending I'm very very proud that nuclear electrica is not just leading in Romania But through nuclear electrica practically with the two units that we have now. We are securing more than well nearly 20% of Romanian sources of energy and with the strategy that we have where nuclear on the energy where nuclear is playing a Leading role as I said with the two units being built with the refurbishment plus the SMRs Practically will not just secure the independence of Romania in terms of the energy but we will be an exporter of energy security because energy in the end of The day is not just the basic human rights, but it's a so it's a it's a security matter as well So we will be an exporter of energy security in our region and beyond and quite frankly giving our and again I'm not subjective. I'm very objective when it comes to the expertise and and The leadership that nuclear electrica is having including in in terms of the workforce Because that's a very important aspect that we all need to take into consideration We have all the ingredients and determination to be a hub Original hub on the energy including all the supply chain and all the other benefits that you mentioned that are from nuclear So again, very happy and proud to be here. Thank you very much and I'm indeed you're quite right more and more governments are Recognizing the the different benefits which you can come bring I think beyond the decarbonization So maybe Jason if I could hand over to you quickly so you could say a few words about your organization and your role in This transition from coal to nuclear Thank you, Jessica and again as other panelists have mentioned appreciate the opportunity to talk about Colt the nuclear transitions and the work that we're engaged in in that in that topic at Idaho National Laboratory we're interested in Finding solutions to problems that exist that present themselves as part of the clean energy transition and we're especially interested in finding Solutions where nuclear energy can play a role in that and other clean energy technologies. We recently Performed an analysis where we where we looked at benefits and challenges that might exist from converting coal facilities to nuclear facilities and One of the interesting things that we discovered out of that Out of that analysis is the important role that coal communities can play in a just energy transition If you think about it Coal has been a major source of fueling the economies and the economic engines of our country and many other countries for a long time And that has come from communities that are that are industrialized communities. These are communities that have an understanding of What it takes to have an industrial facility in your in your community These are communities who depend on these industrial facilities for the local economic base of the region And so that's an important element to consider as we as we think through the As as we think through what the transition might look like it can be it can be scary for some coal communities for They think about you know their livelihood going away and and so as we consider that and we think about how nuclear can move in and Continue to provide an economic engine for the region Those are important impacts to try to understand and that's one of the things that we've been working on especially is understanding the the broader impact to the regions Where these coal transitions might take place? We're also interested in the cost savings that could result from From transitioning coal facilities to nuclear facilities, especially because of the fact that the infrastructure largely exists For connecting to the grid Transmission capabilities are already present. You can repurpose much of that infrastructure Not all of the infrastructure can be repurposed, but much of it can and that creates cost savings on the on the nuclear construction costs so between the Impacts to the local communities in the region between the economic potential that it exists for utilities who engage in coal to nuclear transitions We're interested in studying and we've analyzed many of these scenarios and Are interested in how coal Transitions to nuclear can promote decarbonizing the economy and reaching the goals that we're trying to attain Thank you very much Jason. I would like to maybe start with you with my My first question. I mean obviously one of the most important things is the public acceptance around The development of these SMRs and how to bring those local communities on board and very often we need to we need to Answer the question. What's in it for me? So could you maybe say a few words on what specifically which benefits these Technologies are going to bring to the local communities so that we can really make them feel that they're on board and that accepting this technology Is going to bring them a benefit. That's a great question. Thank you So in some of the public outreach that we've done where we have engaged with communities who are interested in these types of In what a transition might look like for their community Often one of the first questions that's asked by people who work at the coal plant is well I have a job at the nuclear plant. Well, I'd be able to find employment there and so when you consider the different types of job functions that exist at a Coal facility and compare those job functions to those that exist at a nuclear facility There is a lot of crossover that can take place in our analysis We we discovered that many of the job functions that exist at coal facilities can be transitioned to nuclear Job functions with a modest amount of on-the-job training. We're not the many of the co-workers will not have to go through You know extensive education and upgrading of that nature much of it can be on-the-job training and so First and foremost Displaced co-workers will be able to find employment at the nuclear facility But the other thing that we found Jessica is that at the nuclear facilities will employ more people than what the coal facility Currently employs and so as new people move to the area That creates an engine of economic growth for the region The co-workers can transition to the nuclear facility But then in addition the new employees who move to the area will bring economic impact with them They'll have you know families households will move to the area So when you think about work the workforce that transitions at the power plant Then there's ripple effects beyond the power plant itself There are implications in the supply chain that supports the power plant, but then there are also economic impacts in the communities There's impacts to the local tax base. There's impacts to the education sector. There's impacts to You know the different sectors of an economy in the region will be impacted by this transition So sort of wrap up on that point Jessica people are very interested in what those economic impacts might look like and And again, I come back to the point. These are industrialized communities They're familiar with with the business of generating energy and getting it on to the grid and they're interested in how They might be able to play a role in that and what the economic impacts look like for their regions Thank you Jason and maybe I'd like to turn to Anna see if you could add a bit more of an insight on This question about the benefits for communities in Romania particularly in do chest where you're planning to just deploy an SMR Well, I mean, what's in it for them? well Jessica you actually witness together with myself and Ludmila my colleague who is present here and other colleagues from nuclear Europe when As we are in the middle of a hybrid war you saw how Heavy the manipulation and fake news and this information is when we were battling for the taxonomy on on that note I would like to congratulate you personally and nuclear Europe and everybody who contribute to actually get the taxonomy Done over you remember when we were counting every single vote and it's really important to mention how important the taxonomy is including for the nuclear projects and probably we need a little bit more work on that front because we need to Push the financial institutions to actually seriously take into consideration financing the nuclear power Projects so when we have such a heavy manipulation Going back to Romania and not just to do it change, but I if you allow me one minute I will go back to our nuclear power plant in Cerna Voda Through a very hard work and commitment from the very very beginning We've been involved in in the community Embracing the community and allowing the community to embrace us and that's not just being present with Several projects which they are very important from the infrastructure from building the hospital or building a school or helping with a park or You know a bridge or water management infrastructure or heating infrastructure Those are very very important in in the local communities But it's more beyond that. It's actually making you being part and Allowing Them to see you and embrace you as I said as being part of the community and growing together So we never been and we have because we've been operating as I mentioned at the highest level of security and safety For more than 27 years. Of course in Romania. We are very lucky to have that public acceptance quite Good in terms of the percentage Where people are supporting the nuclear projects, but even with that in mind We never been complacent and we always work very hard to to really Show that you know the community is in very is very important for us So based on what we've been doing in Cerna Voda, obviously we use that very good example in Doi Cest Especially that you had so many nonsense I apologize for the language where you had all so lots of smears that it's An experiment that's in that and that we all know that that's absolutely not true and this technology the SMR They've been around for for many many years and they will be helping Very seriously and in a very meaningful way The energy objectives and including the decarbonization. So practically we've been in Doi Cest We've been present in Just in the last year for example spending I don't know I give you a number probably more than 500,000 euros in in order the projects from an elderly care center the school Summer for children the refurbishment of the church the community park as I said, but again This is not just about you know those projects It's about allowing the community to see that you are there for good You will be there in a you know on a medium to long term basis and you are going to grow older together If I may speak this way so In Cerna Voda for example in the last four years and those are you know the numbers in in one way They are important To show You know by real facts not just declaration your you know our commitment We invested in more than 62 projects and more than 3 million euros in all those Projects and national wide through Nucleos we have a very good C and SR platform Ludmila is heavily involved in that with more than 200 projects. So practically We use every Opportunity to be involved in the community and beyond do it changed but especially in do it change because we want it as I said it's it's Just show that you will be not just going there and Taking off you practically are there showing the benefits the real tangible benefits and practically in the end of the day The objective is to improve people's lives and that's what we are doing in not just in do it change But in Cerna Voda as well and through that through whole out to Romania and again, I'm not trying to To go on and on about the great experience we have because we do have it But if others that are listening to us They would like to get in touch with us and we can share from our experience because as I said We are unique in Central Eastern Europe having this very good experience and being On a such a good public acceptance more than 80% public acceptance for for nuclear But yet even with that we are working every single day Thank you very much and in indeed. You're right. I mean we're seeing that in many European member states There is Significant increase in public acceptance for for nuclear and as you said I mean we worked very closely together. I mean on the taxonomy. It really was a team effort and and and and win for the nuclear industry But I think we do still have quite a bit more work to do and I will give you one example So we have won the taxonomy battle, but unfortunately there is there is a fund in Europe that is called the just transition fund and essentially that fund is in place to help certain European regions shift away from coal to Decarbonize technologies Unfortunately for that time be for the time being that fund currently excludes money being used for for nuclear power But we hope that as things progress and as we're starting to see the real value of SMRs In that coal to clean energy transition the EU will also take on board this change in public acceptance And this recognition of the value of nuclear and be a bit more pragmatic in its approach with such such funds And but I think in this respect, I think it would be good to hear from from you Pat But the role that the nuclear industry played in Ontario in terms of achieving the coal coal phase that in 2014 and could you maybe Share with us a bit the work that Bruce power Undertook in order to help shut down coal plants in the region. Yeah, sure. Happy to Obviously, it's one of the things that we're most proud of and you know, I mentioned before that we're we're one of the largest nuclear Facilities in the world. We have two stations Bruce a Bruce be each with four can do reactors in the 90s Ontario made made a decision to shut down Bruce a which is the older of the two stations and As a result of that what we saw is a ramp up of coal production in the province of Ontario By 2005, I'll just give you a little personal story I moved to Toronto, which is the large city center closest to where the nuclear fleet is in in Ontario I moved to Toronto in the early And I'd moved from Montreal which is is located in a province that has a lot of hydro production very little in terms of You know emissions intensive generation and When I moved to Toronto, I noticed something on hot summer days. I'd look up at the sky and It was just a weird orange cloud in the sky every day of the summer I didn't know what it was when you'd leave the city. You'd see a dome over Toronto smog days we had 55 smog days in 2005 55 that was the whole summer you couldn't look up at the sky and see a blue sky It was orange every day smog The province made the decision and you know as jurisdictions around the world are looking at at phasing off coal You know Ontario was looking at this 20-some odd years ago, and they said we have to do something about this. This is unacceptable So and and all governments all parties have embraced this there was a decision to phase off coal for electricity production What we did at Bruce power is we brought Bruce a back online. We refurbished our units one and two Brought units three and four up up to power and by 2012. We had the whole station back online That provided about 70% of the incremental energy needed to phase off coal in the province Pickering they brought some units back online as well together with OPG and Bruce power We provided through nuclear production over 90% of the energy needed to phase off coal by 2014 We burned our last piece of coal to produce electricity in the province of Ontario And since then there has not been a single smog day in Toronto Not a single one now you look up at the sky on a hot sunny day in Toronto, and it is blue It is a night and day difference. I've witnessed it. I didn't even know what was happening at the time I wasn't involved in nuclear. I wasn't involved in electricity. All I knew was the sky was disgusting And we turned it from orange to blue within the matter of under under 15 years how? With renewables as well, but largely on the back of nuclear production and And it was a successful transition, right? We you know our station alone just through normal operations Creates over 22,000 direct and indirect jobs Now as we look to extend the benefits of the site in terms of clean electricity production We're investing in life extending the units that we can produce electricity there for another 50 years Making sure that we don't return to those orange skies keeping smog days down keeping GHE emissions down We're creating an incremental 5,000 jobs on top of what we were already talking about so it's stimulating the economy It's creating good jobs, which is of course a big concern and and ultimately it's having a real impact So, you know that I know there's there's always going to be some Concern around well if we shut down coal where the jobs gonna go. What are we gonna do? We've demonstrated that it's doable in Ontario and we can do it in an affordable way It doesn't have to be a science experiment It can be it can be done. We've proven it works and then we talked a little bit about, you know support of local communities Nuclear communities tend to be the most supportive communities of nuclear right you talked about over 80% Support we see the same thing in Ontario our host communities in Grey Bruce and Huron counties are some of the most supportive communities in the world and as we look at Ontario We do have north of 80% support for what we're doing now Which is what's allowing us to start moving forward with looking at SMR's OPG's looking at SMR's at the Darlington site We're looking at building up to that the options of building up to 4,800 Megawatts of new electricity production from our site We have the social license how by taking action making it happen in a way that drives the economy and a way that you can Tangibly see the difference that it makes right orange skies to blue skies. It's doable You can count on this technology to Provide results and create good jobs and drive the economy Thank you Pat. I mean I have a follow-up question for you But I also want to see if there's anyone in the audience who has anything Any pressing question they would like to ask if you do feel free to just raise your hand and I'll keep sort of looking that way Just to just to keep on on that, but please this shouldn't just be about a panel between us I think if we can integrate you into the conversation. I think that would be that would be very useful as well But maybe Pat my follow-up question we have one perfect There's a microphone just there. Oh, thank you Hi, Tej Gita from GHD and I'm gonna respond to Patrick's comment because I live in Ontario too and I saw those orange skies turn to Blue and that's fantastic and I'm gonna ask maybe I don't know if this is a provocative question or not But I take the metro in here to cop every day and I go through some pretty dim skies here But what do you imagine? I guess as a panel the impact of nuclear could be here in order to remove some of the So the emissions that we're seeing and then the natural gas emissions that we're seeing from combustion for electricity production in places like UAE Good question. Who would like to tackle that one? Maybe I'll start, you know, and I can't speak to really the supply mix here in UAE. I'm not I'm certainly not an expert here What what I do know is there has been some move to to build nuclear in the area And and obviously the more you you look to nuclear The cleaner your your your grid, right? And and and we know that you know what we've what we've come from in terms of the the the the emissions Intensity in the Ontario grid is is world-leading. We've got now one of the cleanest grids around the world and how by leaning on nuclear So when we say that nuclear has got to be part of the solution in terms of in terms of fighting climate change I think those facts are undeniable at this point, right? There's less and less of an argument and I think that's what we're seeing here at COP, right? The nuclear industry a few years ago I don't even think was part of the the COP process now here. We are huge representation from countries all around the world 20 20 plus nations just signed on to to a treaty to to essentially drive towards tripling nuclear production globally That's huge. What a difference that's made the industries did the same Subnational are signing on to similar commitments Nuclear is going to be the solution to fighting climate change in partnership with others But you can't do it without nuclear and I think the world's accepting that I know the UAE is seeing it that way Obviously, it can have an impact. We've demonstrated in Ontario And I think we're gonna see that around the world as we take steps to increase the nuclear capacity globally Please Anna Obviously, I'm not going to speak on behalf of any particular countries but on what we know in Romania and following on what you are saying And as I was mentioning in my opening statement I am incredibly pleased to see the nuclear is regaining its role including and presence including at COP and I can win This even since last year, I mean even last year was a presence but this year is an increased presence and I'm expecting that next year to be even a bigger presence and so on so forth because You know nuclear is not anymore the bow bow in the room. It's actually recognized now as being not just a reliable cheap affordable source of Sustainable source of energy But as you rightly said and everybody is mentioning that you cannot achieve the digarbonization role In our goals without the nuclear being a major part of it But I know that in the region there are significant steps in recognizing the the benefits from the nuclear In Romania, for example, there are from from our turn of order a power plant recognizing the excellent training that we have Because I I should mention that we are again among the leading in in our region and in Europe that we have a very good University specializing including on the nuclear in having even a master in Nuclear and that's been going on for many many years is not just being set Since you know a few years has been going on for for for very, you know decades now We actually have now a simulator for the SMR So we are offering training for the SMR technology because it's very important to have that but you know a lot of Experts from our nuclear power plant. They've been working on the Baraka nuclear power plant for example in the region So as I said, I'm very pleased and Romania is part of of the efforts that you mentioned including on tripling You know the efforts on the on the nuclear so all in all I do believe that not just in the region but Internationally globally the nuclear is is as I said regaining its place And you know the time is on our side now as an industry But you know, that's not going to stay longer unless we are continuing to show the real benefits From the nuclear including look, I was a few weeks ago. I went to To the office in Vienna and you know what I? Witness a great presentation and it was a great surprise to myself as well And I am praising myself of being one of those people who actually like to read and you know get knowledge That's why I mentioned, you know nuclear the benefits from nuclear. They are not the public statements or political statements No, they are actually science, you know, the benefits are from science and he was shown to me how you actually can predict the water You know where the water is and how old is the water if it's 100 years old, which is not that old with two ten thousand, you know Years millions of years old and then you can actually see where the water is and it's not just preserving the water But actually finding new sources of water, especially in the areas where the water is so much needed So again, this is another benefit from the nuclear recognized all over the world And I think that actually kind of reminds me of a great quote that came out of the event last Saturday it was by the Deputy Prime Minister of Sweden Eba Bush where she very Simply summarized her intervention by saying a little less politics a little more physics And I think that really does kind of summarized just what you were saying It's about the science and that's what we need to start implementing is the science I'm very pleased because I see a lot of youth's involvement in promoting the nuclear all over the The world not just in Romania. We're again like in Canada. We have a very good public acceptance But all over everywhere. I'm going I see that the use are being engaged And understanding the benefits of the nuclear overall and that's a really really good positive sign Indeed it is And maybe now I can turn to you Jason Can you I mean can you give us specifically some some reasoning as to why existing coal sites are so interesting for SMR's? Yeah, absolutely. So in our study that we looked at if you think about where coal sites are located Traditionally, these are located in rural locations across the country As I mentioned in my opening remarks that Because of the how they're distributed coal facilities are oftentimes the primary economic engine and in these smaller communities so Thinking about why our coal facilities good locations In addition to the fact that we've got an industrialized workforce on site that you can leverage You also have infrastructure available there the trans access to transmission already exists So you have the ability to repurpose the site Produce get electrons onto the grid with infrastructure that already exists So you're taking advantage of the fact that you've got physical infrastructure But you also have human capital infrastructure of the people that are located there Jessica, I want to come back just a moment to the to the question about the Orange skies and how nuclear can play a role in in helping them become blue So if I think about a community or a country Who currently has coal in their asset portfolio? But they don't have nuclear and they think to themselves well How are we going to establish a supply chain to support nuclear that can seem like an overwhelming? Ad daunting task But when you break it down and you recognize that the people who work in the supply chains that support the natural gas Industry people who work in the supply chains that support the coal industry Those are job functions that the nuclear industry needs as well So it's not a matter of building up a new nuclear supply chain from the ground up It's a matter of leveraging the supply chains that exist today to be able to convert them To leverage those those workforces and the capabilities that already exist to be able to get that desired end state of blue Skies as opposed to as opposed to the orange skies So that these small rural communities where coal facilities are distributed because of the human capital and the physical capital that exists in those places Make them in many cases ideal locations for siding nuclear plants there Not all not every coal community will be viable for a nuclear power plant. There are siding characteristics that come into play There are limitations, you know seismic features of the region, etc There are many different attributes that that have to be vetted against but once those are Once those are passed then you can look at the fact that the infrastructure that exists is worthwhile for repurposing and and enabling the the nuclear Supply chains and the nuclear industry and ultimately that that point of the blue skies to exist So that's that's my answer on why I think that These coal sites are good locations for repurposing nuclear Yes, thank you, and you mentioned one important point there is also about being able to utilize the existing local supply chain I think that's that's also a very key point In all of this discussion and but I turn that to the audience because I see we have one Question I think if we could pass the mic. Thank you Good morning. I'll be back from IAA yesterday morning we had an event here on The deployment the speed of deployment of nuclear that the event was entitled is nuclear deployment too slow for net zero and the discussions who we had with the representatives of Sweden France the US and China were essentially revolved around large larger reactors, but for a repurposing coal facilities Small modular reactors Tend to be the right the right size the right solution. So could I ask the panelists how fast? SMR Could be has the most could be deployed to replace those coal community coal fired plants in in those communities Or could large reactors in some cases be a solution as well because the technology exists Thank you, Henri and maybe if I could turn to Anna first on on that question Well, we have a great example in Romania. As I said, we have two units in place We are building two other units and we are at the forefront in deploying the SMR And actually the SMR is the site in Dojcest is on a old cold facility, so we are very advanced in all getting the permitting all all the work that Needed to do to be done according to a strategy and the faces of the project But if I could speak about the benefits of the SMR's technology, yes as we all recognize this You know each country needs to see what they need and what? You know what is according to their? Energy strategy in Romania We have and I'm pleased to for that matter to see the developments at the at the year level because if I get the title right We've been you know, it's been quite a heavy development now to have the European Commission Officially announced last month's the creation of the SMR industrial alliance They dedicated to the small module reactors that will focus on accelerating the deployment of those technologies and ensuring the EU Supply chain including a skilled workforce So you see now the efforts of course Romania and I'm very proud to see that Romania's Nuclear electric are we beneath the you know very advanced you know forefront in deploying the SMR complimentary to our Traditional builds of those two units added to the two existing ones But again, you go to have each country Knowing what it is needed including in terms of the energy mixed and that one I'm very pleased now including at the EU level to see that is now allowed to the member states to decide the energy mixed For according to the realities on the ground, but in the country in in the case of my country. Yes, we do we are Elementary having the two builds with the SMR because they're the benefits are very real But again, Romania having this very huge reach experience and expertise We have a very good Regulatory body you need to have that Cheney Khan our regulatory body in Nuclear has a huge expertise and you know what I'm not trying to promote them here But again, we are very ready to share from our experience in the region and beyond because the regulation is very important That will speed to answer to your question Having a good regulatory body will speed up the the process in deployment as well But I do believe that all the efforts needs to be done in terms of having a full scale speedy deployment of the SMR's Yeah, thank you Anna. Maybe I can turn to you Pat for your thoughts on this I do I do want to echo what what Anna was saying about the regulatory process We have to make sure that new nuclear Expansion of nuclear all of this gets prioritized from a regulatory perspective, you know regulatory tends to be a you know to To to to edge sort right we need strong regulators to help ensure the safety and and And performance of our of our of our units to make sure that we maintain public acceptance Same time when it comes to new permitting and moving through regulatory processes to get stuff built We need to make sure that we find ways that we can build out these new clean megawatts in a way that Enables us to achieve our climate change goals in and 2050. So I think that I think some prioritization has to take place That's a key issue. I think now ever since you mentioned that quote I've got Elvis going in my head a little less conversation a little more action, right? That's kind of where that was kind of taken from and I think that's really important from our perspective the nuclear industry, right? Taking action moving things forward There's been discussion anyway from a Canadian perspective that you know Canada and Ontario are taking a leadership role on the on the nuclear front and I'm a believer in that and the reason is that we are taking action You know if if we weren't life extending 10 units in Ontario right now We'd be shutting them down over the next few years Those are new clean megawatts as we invest in our site You know when we've when we signed our deal with the province back in 2015 our nameplate capacity was 6300 megawatts large right but Since that time since 2015 our nameplate is now 6,550 just by optimizing the assets getting new clean megawatts by investing and modernizing our Our systems and finding efficiencies in them. We have a we have a project called project 2030 We aim to by the year 2030 be north of seven gigs That's like building a whole new unit on our site just by finding efficiencies and optimizing the site Now we're conducting an RFI to find the next option to potentially develop at our site at Darlington OPG they're looking at there. They're supposed to have an SMR online by 2029, right? The province is taking action moving forward with projects bringing new clean megawatts online And that's the real key. Can we build it all? You know like we have a we have a report out of Ontario called the pathways to decarbonization Which essentially looks at what the Ontario electricity system would have to do over the next 26 years to hit decarbonization targets to have a net zero grid by 2050 and it essentially says you have to you have to double the electricity system You have to build 18 gigs of new nuclear capacity in the province is one of the key issues Can we get there by 2050? We'd sure like to try the only way you get there is by taking the next step doing that next incremental megawatt investing in the efficiencies doing the permitting for new sites Finding opportunities to build SMR's and then continuing to explore and develop that it all comes from long-term planning and Option development if you don't start moving forward, you never get to your target. You have to start aligning interests Plan for the long term align with all levels of government and the regulators to make sure we all are pointed in the right direction And I think that's how you get new nuclear online in a time that actually has an impact on climate change Because along with the skilled and very very good regulator You will need the supply chain a very experienced and competitive supply chain But again on top of that you will always need the human resources So don't lose sight of investing in the human resources and that's why I've been mentioning several times How important is to have a very good university a good faculty that is specializing on the nuclear? Because the nuclear skills is and you know investing anyway in generally speaking investing in human resources is taking You know, it's an investment is taking a few years, but especially on the nuclear So to have a skilled network of engineering universities I think that will be again if I could call it a very good supply chain of the Expertise in terms of the of the human resources because that will assure a very good Deployment and fast-track deployment of the SM arts as well when you are having that skilled Because you know safety it's a up here, you know It's something that nobody will ever ever compromise when it comes to the safety and the security Yeah, and thank you that I mean that skills I think is a very important point in all of this But I would also like to turn to you Jason I mean first of all and with relation to this question your thoughts on what an ambitious but Realistic timeline is for the rollout of these of these SMRs But then also your thoughts and even if the the selected reactor technology comes from outside of the region where it's going to Be built What do you think is still going to be the benefits that that technology going to bring to the local supply chain if you could cover both Yeah, so on the topic of speed of deployment there I think an important point to consider and you brought this up Jessica earlier when you mentioned the the European Fund to support clean energy transitions Recently the United States in the United States there has been legislation passed to support this as well And that is the importance of recognizing that in these energy communities There's an advantage of transitioning in energy community So if there is policy support to try to enable and facilitate that I think that will go a long ways to support The speed of deployment is what you're talking about Another aspect of speed of deployment is taking advantage of economic forces and both and what I mean by that is Structuring procurements in a way where market signals can be sent to the to the investors that are in the supply chain of a stability that You know if if you can harness the the market power of large procurements of being able to purchase and Procure a number of reactors at a time from a single You know from a single vendor that sends it an incredible economic signal to the supply chain that the industry can develop around that because there is a Development, I'm sorry because there are these contracts in place based on these large procurements Jessica to your second point about what it means for supply chains Even in the case where the supply chains might exist outside of the region I'm thinking about the coal communities that exist and the opportunity for growth that exists in those communities This is a chance for communities to be proactive in the clean energy transition and invite industry to their region Today it might be the case that the supply chains don't exist directly in the region where the coal to nuclear transition might take place but that's not to say that that Economic development and others who work in that area could not invite those supply chains to locate regionally and by locating those Supply chains regionally you have the advantage to accelerate even further the economic development and growth that will go along with the transitions so, you know just to wrap up on that the policy support taking advantage of what we know about large procurements and purchases on quantity and and then also opportunities for local communities due to Economic development of bringing the supply chains to the region. I think we'll all contribute to the speed of Deployment and making that and and making the transition possible Add on to what to what Jason just mentioned it can happen You know when our when our current CEO joined Bruce power and we started down our life extension project He made it a focus of our organization to ensure that the supply chain started Locating in our area, so I mean it is a very domestic supply chain can do we've got a recapitalized supply chain as we move through our refurbishment program across Ontario You know all the manufacturing I mean 99% of the spend that we are putting into our our nuclear fleet is Domestic it stays in Canada But regionally we wanted to see that impact actually impact our very local rural Ontario communities And so you know as of as of this year, you know, we started this this this life extension program in 2016 We've we've seen 60 businesses from our supply chain locate locally Not that they bring their whole business to the area, but they'll open offices They'll hire people that get some manufacturing done and that resonates with folks locally, right? And that's the impact that nuclear can have it does Support communities it does create good jobs and ultimately it comes down to the proponents looking to to build these projects To make sure that their supply chains do do that, right? And the you know, we all know one of the biggest challenges to to fighting climate change is the cost So, you know, if you start looking at everything is just what's the levelized cost of the next megawatt You won't get very far But when you start creating an economic impact story around it and you talk about the benefit to communities The benefit to not only ratepayers, but the taxpayer and the the economic The economic net positive that comes from it It's a much more compelling story to tell and when you start really making out a local story You get your communities embracing it You get the the the economy supported there and you get the biggest the biggest support You can from the people who are closest to the plants and that's what leads to other communities asking for a similar similar Similar drive in their communities similar opportunities in their communities and that's how this industry grows Just you know to build on that point There's a strong economic feedback and associated with what he's talking about the momentum that exists the economic growth that exists Will facilitate further speed in the transition and bringing the technologies to net zero Capabilities so yeah that the feedback loop is tremendous Yeah, and talking about communities and I'd like to hear a bit more from you about the Romania's preserving community through a coal to nuclear just transition Obviously Jessica replacing cold Cold with nuclear power and renewable energy sources is the pathway to secure the Decarbonization of our energy mixed and maintaining jobs and domestic supply chain In a sustainable manner and it is very clear that For example with the SMR and I you know, I mentioned that the the plan that we have in the chest is on a cold plant old cold plant, so it's very clear that We we are not going to achieve the decarbonization goals without Nuclear playing a major role as we all been saying and in our case for example the objective to retiring all the cold Capabilities by 2032 that's doable with the nuclear playing a very major role. So Romania obviously We've been sharing our nuclear expertise in the region We've been supporting the energy needs to Ukraine to Republic of Moldova and during those very difficult times and We've been taking a role leading role in just Deploying if I could say and sharing and showing our expertise in our region and beyond the way we are in close Contact with friends from Poland and so on so forth and at the EU level, you know that we've been We've been playing and we are doing our part in promoting the nuclear because Practically those technologies are able to meet the country's goal and bring Multiple social economic benefits in the communities, but you know if you show a success story In in one community that will replicate and in the speed of of the social media nowadays You know that success story is just a story that will be be a story to be forward by others but in In our case we Have Employees in Chernivode which came from families of former workers In do it changed cold plant. So that's it's another example of generations that they've been working in our original Nuclear power plant and now they are going to do it change to another community So from one community going to another community that what does it show that shows the experience the expertise? But the trust as well that you know when you build a community in in Chernivode and I've been Sharing with you the efforts that we've been doing in a constructive way to be part of the community now going to to the other So practically to some because the time is very tight We are very proud to promote the importance of the industrial sustainable partnership with the major Beneficial impact on reducing the carbon footprint by also in preserving and supporting the communities economic development And areas with SMRs will become in our opinion industrial hubs For years to come and that's again the you know mark my word This is not just a declaration. It's actually action because you know in nuclear You prepare for long-term planning and you need long-term planning But I will add the word strategic because nuclear it is a matter of security and The strategy and if you get your strategy, right you will see the benefits that in the case of Romania Which is a success story in terms of the nuclear? Thank you Anna and We have one minute Could you I mean maybe Pat as a concluding remark Colton nuclear transition? What would you see as the one challenge and the one opportunity? I? I think at the end of the day the the biggest challenges is going to be Is going to be making sure that that we get the political will to do what we got to do, you know The election cycle doesn't align with the long-term view of nuclear We have to make sure that we continue to maintain support from the left and from the right to make things happen And and I think in places where we've had great success stories We can do that and that's where we have to keep our foot on the on the pedal and make sure that we continue to Highlight the benefits and opportunities of supporting our nuclear fleet. Thank you Pat Anna same question to you one challenge Well in the case of Romania We have that public support and the political will in fact actually we've been passed through the both the government and the Parliament with the support of the presidency And the president to have the nuclear being supported on a long-term strategy Well the challenge but the opportunity at the same time is the financing where people should not look When you know when you what you spend on the on the nuclear projects to just look at the beginning You know because yes, they are a little bit more expensive But I will argue a cord you know comparing to what and to what type of projects I will argue actually that in the end of the day if you look rightly and you do the real math in terms of the science not political populist Declarations you will see that actually Investment in the nuclear projects is actually a very good investment not just in the present But in the future of having not just achieving those Decarbonization goals in terms of the climate change, but actually providing a very reliable affordable source of energy A challenge and opportunity at the same time is actually to continue to show the benefits of the nuclear Including in the hydrogen production because we forgot to mention that that's another example Where you have a very good benefit of the nuclear so you know Practically to sum up I think the nuclear is Regaining its role is momentum, but we should not be complacent about it because Where I am and this is my personal view having 20 years of experience in public service I am a little bit concerned of the upcoming EU elections Where and I would like the energy especially and nuclear in particular To not be the topic of the populist or of the extremist to be misused and in the Disinformation manner no, but we need to show what energy is that the energy is in the end of the day a basic human Right and the nuclear playing its major role along with the other sources of energy, which they we are not in competition We will be complimenting The the need of providing that source of a reliable sustainable source of energy Thank you, and indeed you're right at the EU level. We hope it should no longer be a question of either or it should be a question of and Jason Same question is same question one challenge one opportunity I think from my perspective the one challenge is also the same as the opportunity and that is the political will The opera the challenge has been adequately described I would like to add to what the opportunity is in terms of the political will and that is as we begin to understand better what are the economic benefits for communities and Allow the communities to participate in the conversation That will influence policy and that will influence the political will So that's why I see that the same challenge that we have from another perspective is also the opportunity Which is to facilitate the conversation between energy communities and policy makers who represent them to To try to get the political will moving in the direction that supports a clean and just energy transition Thank You Jason Thank you very much to to our speakers today. I think they deserve a round of applause. So and thank you to you Enjoy the rest of of COP and let's hope that next year we build even more upon the this growing momentum in favor of nuclear