 I'm Gareth Taylor, I'm a mining engineer, 40 years of gold mining, all over Africa. It took a lot of convincing from Abbey to get me to come here because I've listened to so much talk about autismal mining. All of it, obviously interested in all of it about trying to find solutions but just talk. To be honest, when we started the first session, I thought we were into a talking session but I think we've identified some really important issues. I wouldn't have done them this way so I've learnt a lot through the process but most of all I now understand that this is part of a process with a real end goal in mind. I have real hope that the work we're doing is going to help us reach that end goal so very worthwhile for me. I think the people in the room are probably a lot less political. You've got some real players, some real autismals themselves who bring gravitas. It would be nice if we could listen to them speak and I think those are the most important people. This is a very real human issue but even the people who represent NGOs are not rabid NGOs and they're not too touchy-feely about it. I think everybody has an understanding that it's time to take some real action. I think the other side of it is there's a very good range of people as I say from the workers themselves if you like, right to people who understand policy perhaps more than they understand the work. But for whatever reason I suppose it's the selection of the candidates. I think they gel well and work together. There hasn't been too much friction and it's all been positive comment. Personally what I'd like to see what I didn't come here to get but I'm encouraged to think it might be a possibility is I tend to see the solutions as being commercial solutions rather than policy solutions. So what I would like to get out of it and probably in a private conversation is there are a lot of barriers to financing for artisanal miners who they are. The kinds of money that we spoke about this morning are very small in mining terms but they absolutely massive in artisanal terms and in risk of payback terms. So I'd like to come away with some idea of how can there be a system put in place where artisanals who can prove on a much less rigorous scale than you would for a normal mining investment that they have the ability, the knowledge and the systems to use the money effectively and to pay it back. We were discussing the role of donors. Donors are important but I don't think they're going to give us a long term solution. The only solution is if artisanal miners who are maybe uneducated people but they're not stupid people can be given the chance to earn the money and therefore earn almost the self-respect and pride of being able to pay borrowings back through profit and success. I voted for vulnerability and government but as we've debated it today and gone through it at least from my perspective the solutions where I see them being required and if my solutions are correct I think addressing the government issues just about address everything because it is about inclusion. For me it's about a bottom-up driven formalisation rather than a top-down with government but it's also about understanding the commercial potential for government, for potential lenders and for the artisanals themselves and as soon as you've dealt with that, in other words you've created a commercially successful business at their level, what are the issues? Effectively as far as I'm concerned they're on their own then. They are not in need of livelihoods assistance, they may be in need of like any other business a bit of consulting, a bit of sport winning and if the situation requires them. So I might be simplifying it a little bit but that's how I see it.