 And welcome back to the red man group Anthony dream John's here today apex alpha male a red pill giga Chad With the show has been on hiatus for about five months as you can guess due to this little booby monster Who was born July 20th 2023? He's just over two months old now my beautiful baby girl Charlotte dream Johnson say hi Charlotte She's not gonna be on the show for too long But I did want to show it to you guys the channel's been kind of quiet past few months Basically, she's the reason I focused on her and protecting my family from what I call medical idiots on a good day Both the birthing process leading up to that and then after so I've been super focused on that We'll get more to that in a future video today's episode is 182 with dr. Sean T. Smith returning guests to the show. We're gonna be focusing What do you think Charlotte the book? I want to read it. We're gonna be focusing on Sean's new book gatekeeper the tactical guide to commitment If you take her in a minute, yeah, come grab her. I'm gonna actually pass Charlotte off guys say say good She's really hungry and she's a little booby monster Good milk for mama Bye Charlotte, we'll bring her back on later a little bit Anyway Before we bring on the guests to the real guest. It's not just my daughter Gatekeeper the tactical guide to commitment the title of the show actually came from the back Which I love and talked about this in my newsletter Relationships have consequences. That's a play on a popular manuscript trope I don't think it came from the manuscript that choices have consequences Relationships are one of the ultimate choices you'll be making your life They can bring you up make your life a lot better or they can tear you down in a toxic one and ruin your life For a bring on the guests shout out to our sponsor tactical alpha male pheromone soap You can actually buy this in the link below and support the show use coupon code 21c for an extra exclusive discount It's filled with alpha male pheromone. So if you rub them all over your body You'll be even more alpha 200% more alpha and your chick will smell them in her nostrils And you'll be like, you know, you'll be like a god to her basically alpha male apex alpha male Anyway, without further ado, please help me welcome back to the show mr. Sean T Smith Doc Smith, how you doing buddy? Good? How you doing Anthony? Doing pretty good man. We're gonna talk Yeah, absolutely little the little baby. Yeah, and I appreciate like I said to the gift You got her and stuff. We use it every day appreciate that Hey, let me tell you something I've noticed with with dudes and their infant children shoot that Sometimes here's what I've seen a few times that guys will get kind of insecure because they'll notice they don't have quite the same Emotional connection as to their infant children as the mother does and some guys will get kind of nervous about that You and I were chatting earlier. You were holding that obviously doesn't apply to you But some guys get a little nervous about that and the thing to know if you're a guy with an infant baby Is that infants are boring if you're a dude pretty much because they don't do much and we love them But they're boring, but when that personality starts to come online and they start having a little back and forth with you That's when fathers really get connected to their to their children usually Yeah, I believe it. I mean, I feel like you know, I love her so much It's a it's indescribable how much like as much as I thought I loved Alyssa like having the baby It's it's funny because I saw I put in the newsletter Maybe you saw that I was reading how having a baby for a man basically your testosterone can dip for a few months after You're born. I don't snuck in maybe and maybe think the same. There's an evolutionary Adaptation to that or benefit to that. So you're a little bit calmer a little bit less aggressive a little bit more nurturing and stuff I don't know if that applied to me though Because since she's been born leading up to it and then after I feel like ten times more aggressive And this is probably come through on my newsletter She doesn't get any of that obviously as an infant baby But it feels like my protective instinct is like just skyrocketed and Michael Foster wore me about this two months ago Even when Alyssa was pregnant that I would feel that I think you would see it kind of my tweets Which got increasingly intense With hyperbole and satire any ideas to your You think it's been interesting to read about that Disaster and dipping feels almost the opposite You're starting to fade out just a bit of audio. Yeah Any better, yeah, let's give it a shot Yeah, let me know again if you guys do in the comments if you hear like audio issues Yeah, here's Tony Bruno Tony server. Sup, bro. So anyway, let's talk about your book You can hear me. Okay. Yeah So obviously your book is the tech a gatekeeper. He's the same the tactical guide to one of them No, it's a keeper. No guide. Follow up your earlier Yeah, you're kind of fading out. I don't know if it's everybody or just me, but you're you're dropping out of it Yeah, it's weird Hmm. Well now sounds better. Yeah How about now any better worse? Oh damn It's like going to the eye doctor one or two. This is great radio I'll work on it a minute once I get you talking. I have an idea what I can do with it But talk to me about your book itself like what led to the writing of this book It's brand new Where this book comes from is pretty big too. I think it's uh, it's about 200 pages or so Yeah, it's it was the inspiration It's longer than the tactical guide to women. It's about probably a third longer Because there's a lot more to put in and it was almost twice as long at one point I cut it back quite a bit, but This is the book that really should have come before the tactical guide to women because that one was about women It was the first third of that book was about you the reader, but it was mostly about how to Determine if a woman is is has basic competence to be able to participate in a grown-up relationship This one is exclusively about you the reader Why it is that that we have the relationship patterns that we have and how to break out of them If they're not working for us and how to establish good ones. So First book was about women partly this one's about you. So this one really should have come first because It's all about how you work Sorry, I was working on my audio. Is that any better? Yeah, you're quiet now Man I feel like I'm out of practice. It's like all the same equipment, but yeah We'll keep working on it. Okay. Yeah, that's better. Whatever you're doing now. Yeah Yeah So basically this book is uh, you're saying it should have come before the tactical guide to women But that's mostly what you've been known for in the ministry too. I mean the book like really took off years ago And it's been I'd say bestseller ever since Yeah, it's done well and somebody really complimented it a few weeks back They said that has it become an underground classic in men's spaces This is I mean that's That's to me is much more valuable than a new york times bestseller Mr. Whatever to know that guys actually value this and this is a book that gets talked about and men's groups and so forth Yeah, what I always liked about your first book tactical guide to women is that it was I said it before and I'll say it again It was like it has been one of the best books you can recommend That has anything to do with like Manisphere type topics and obviously you're aware of that kind of movement community and stuff like that But also it's not weird. It's not hard to read. It's well written other guys can't even write at all As we've talked about in private these goofballs There's no weird acronyms in the book really. It's like simple. It's easy to understand You're an incredible writer too by the way like one of the things I do and I read a book because I think about What the psychology so to speak the personality and the soul the person who wrote it like what went into this What kind of ideas led to this what kind of life experiences And what kind of man is actually writing the book and when I read your book I feel like more intelligent before I read it Um, that's thanks ideas, but because of the way you write it's like a looking to your mind Well, I appreciate that I don't know if looking into my mind is the best thing to do but Yeah, I appreciate that and the weird thing about the tactical guide to women is that I had no idea about the red pill community I had heard the word manisphere. I didn't know what it was I thought it's where guys talked about fishing and so forth I really had no exposure to the manisphere in these online spaces and then wrote that book People started getting a hold of it and that's when I started that's when I discovered the red pill and that's when I Started really checking into these concepts like hypergamy that they were talking about all the time and and so forth Yeah, you have a great video too on that 45 minutes long criticizing or examining. Um, maybe it's a better word the manisphere is like conventional definition of hypergamy Which is an expanded use well beyond how it was traditionally used in like sociology and stuff And you debunked I think a lot of bad ideas that have percolated Uh in the manisphere over the past couple years in that video that's on 21 studios and your channel Yeah, in that video, I wasn't tearing down Hypergamy, but I did kind of break it break it down because I spent a lot of time thinking about it because the things that I was hearing in the red pill community about The way women behave. Yes, some of it was making sense I'd say about 40 50 of it was making sense But it conflicted with what I knew as a clinician and what I'd learned in all in all of my training And so when I see two things that makes sense But they conflict like my mind just latches on to that And so that's where that that video came from and I would say that I didn't I didn't um Try to tear down the idea of hypergamy, but I did tear down the idea that it It has become this entire theoretical framework that it was it was never meant to be I mean hypergamy doesn't even get mentioned in the literature In the in the evolutionary psychology literature For example, it barely gets mentioned. The reason it doesn't get mentioned is because it's it's boring like women want the best man They can get okay, like we all know that we've always known that my grandpa knew that Everybody knows that but then it got turned into Um Well, it's like a blunt forest hammer that's used on everything in the manisphere Yeah, it's like this tool that just every woman gets hit with hypergamy It like she has no other fundamental beliefs or motivations for how she behaves Yeah, and that's the real problem is that hypergamy is one selection factor among many and it's a relatively minor one So if you want to talk about how women and men select each other, there's things like assortative mating for Um emotional disposition and intelligence intellect people select each other on intellect very reliable Reliably like you don't see a really High IQ person with a low like lower IQ person. You just don't see it very often and when you do see it I've seen it on occasion. It's miserable for everybody. So there are major selection Factors like that Hypergamy is one minor factor among 100 others That only explains a little bit of how women select men. It's not irrelevant, but it's not real big But then the red pill took it to mean Extended it to explain not To be not just a selection factor, but something that explains how women behave after they've committed to a man There's there's nothing there that That can justify expanding it in that direction. I think that's really what I tried to take apart in that video because if you're thinking about Women incorrectly and you're actually in a relationship with with a individual women and you're applying this bizarre template That applies to all women then you're going to fuck up your relationship So why would you why would you do this? That's really what was after in that video There's a lot of self-destructive behaviors in the manisphere. I mean, especially the red pill wing But others too. I mean I could talk about the migtails lately My patients has run out for them over the past couple months and couple years really especially past couple months though I'd say But I think part of why your video is made too if I can comment on it I think that the manisphere is very anti establishment and I've always liked that It's always been like that even in the pickup artist days in the 2000s. It was like that It was this underground thing It was very critical of this mainstream dating advice and what we'd call blue pill, you know kind of propaganda these days but I think Something got lost in the mix and that was this distrust of the science Which is often like really goofy and kind of retarded like you criticize the apa all the time Which should be in theory a preeminent source of science and scientific method and inquiry And pursuing the truth aggressively and not have this like woke Propaganda and indoctrination and ideology in it and I think you've been really explicit about that But anyway the manisphere and it's like distrust of establishment thinking and conventional science It then gets into like just rampant pseudoscience and that just runs like a virus. It just takes off And you have all these zoomer kids that can't even read then they're like, yeah, I'm a red pill expert alpha male Then I'm I'm gonna master hypergamy by super chatting people on youtube and it's like this is just This this has gotten so dumb Yeah, I think that's really insightful that that um The red pill is anti establishment That's one of the things that really drew me to that crowd to want to have conversations with with the red pill crowd Is that I can't stand aspects of my my profession and I actually haven't yelled at the apa for a while I need to get back to doing that because they need somebody yelling at them. But yeah, um, it has turned into Kind of a cartoon of itself lately because it's gone down this path of rampant opposition to Like you're saying rampant opposition to anything that kind of makes sense in the world Yeah, there's the distrust of mainstream science has gotten super aggressive And it's not always warranted like there is a lot of goofy stuff and ideology But then you don't just get to make up your own science. I mean, tony I think nails it here with the word He just made up probably hypergatory Yeah, like purgatory where guys get stuck and they really do and whether it's by design of some charlatan or it's just incidental to people with uh to men to content creators that have their own dysfunctions And mental health problems. I would say god complexes and cult this little micro cults that they make up um, yeah, they really get stuck in this cycle of hypergatory this like, uh It's like a feedback loop where you just never escape or like a trauma loop I think is actually what I've seen someone call it. I don't know if it was you or tony or michael foster Somebody like that. Yeah, probably not me, but I like that word because You see you guys thinking about one variable Trauma or hypergatory with the hypergamy. They're thinking about one variable and applying it to these multivariate wonderful creatures women and Yeah, you know, it's like looking at I don't know. It's like it's looking at at a beautiful work of art and just Focusing on the color blue that's in it and ignoring everything else. That's not a great metaphor, but you know, it's it's good enough It is. No, I get it. Yeah, you know, I'd like um I'm gonna screw up his name, but I'm you have not been super active in the mana sphere because you've been focusing on your book I think So I criticize in the apa your youtube channel. You have a lot of fans on your channel They've been they're waiting for you to make comeback 20 000 of them on your channel. They love you Yeah, gotta get something going there But in the meantime, there has been someone else who's come up a ryan your friend a ryan Torban Tara Ben. Yeah Tara Ben. Yeah And he's been actually blowing up on youtube this channel is really catching the algorithm right or just a new audience or whatever I don't even know. He has probably 300 000 subscribers now or Somewhere in that direction coming up on it. Yeah, he's he's really blown up and he's he's an interesting dude And if you haven't heard of him, um, you should definitely check him out. He's got some interesting things to say and He's a licensed psychologist and he's a really smart dude Super articulate super smart like he can take all all kinds of variables and condense them down Find find the uh core to all of them and talk about the core talk about what matters in a situation And you know, I don't agree with everything he says and I think that's that's the mark of somebody who's really interesting And really thoughtful is that I can be on board with him 80 at the time and then 20 of the time He's making me think like okay. Am I wrong about this or is he is he missing something? And I just I love listening to the guy and he's he's a really smart dude and he's I would call him pretty red pill in the classical sense of the term not the clown show that it is today, but somebody who actually Thinks about what's going on around them and tries to find the themes and he can also connect it to the science because he knows the science Yeah Well by science you mean the purple pill obviously Yeah, well, yeah, that's a good point. What I mean by science usually when I when I talk about the science of mating I'm usually talking about Evolutionary psychology because I think that's a pretty good framework. It's not perfect But I also have people out there like John Gottman. He's he's good up to a point He gives guys advice that sometimes backfires on them because he's very much in the feminine frame and you can you can hear that in in the way he speaks but He also sees the masculine side See on youtube No, he's uh, he's an old school guy. He's If you ever heard heard someone talk about the four horsemen like there's stonewalling and resentment and and a couple others he's these behaviors that infiltrate a relationship and and spell the doom of the relationship that comes out of His work and he's been around since the 70s Wow, cool. But anyway, I mentioned your friend Orion. Uh, I was saying that right again. Yeah He did a couple of it. I've seen, you know, several of his videos since finding him I found I think I think I found him because I was searching your name on youtube like interviews And I saw that he had interviewed you And I was like, oh, look at this, you know Nice content creator who's not a weirdo and not a goofball and not a cartoon Making real content with real ideas and actually seems to care about the issues Like that's what everyone thinks content creators are and it's like man, you have no idea Um, but he made a video specifically criticizing the red pill particularly like the clown show of these like These podcasts where they bring on prostitutes and only fans girls and like all this stuff and it's just like a circus Of goofiness and and people pretending to be things if they're not in your book Even you called them social media charlatans and Lamborghinis. I think it's one of the ways Yeah, I'm not that far into the book by the way. I know we're near what I want it to be Anyway, I'm about 50 pages in And it's over 260 actually that's checked So I did not get as much done as I wanted to reading it But I still want to keep talking about it as much as we can. You got your hands full. It's okay Yeah, yeah, it's been that's something I need to do my own video blogs about or kind of newsletters or something But yeah becoming a father has his major change in your life And I would have said that even before the fact obviously, but there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path As like the old saying from the matrix goes or any probably a bunch of other people too Anything surprise you about it so far I don't even know. I'm still like it's it's been two months, but it feels like it's been two days Like it went by it's gone by so fast We look at pictures of her pictures from when she was born like her first bath versus like, you know the other day And she's huge. She's gained like Six pounds. She's she's almost double the weight her own body weight in two months and super healthy and all that but You're just seeing her grow like she's not the same baby anymore And the first couple days you get her home in the first week and two weeks like she's still, you know Super tiny, but then she hits like nine pounds and 10 pounds and 11 pounds and 12 pounds But It gets worse. You're gonna turn around. She'll be the senior in high school. Everybody says that but man It's it's a hundred percent true Yeah, you don't know how fast time slips through your fingers until you have a kid That's when you really get it. Yeah. No, I believe it. I mean when I was young I remember people telling me that as you get older time goes faster I did not understand that at 16. I definitely understand that at 35 And with the kid I can see that too like I've always heard that, you know That kind of idea that a kid will make things go a little faster I've seen that just in two months and it's like holy crap and that's just one kid You know, you know, I know you have one child too, I believe Yeah, but we know guys that have four or five six seven kids michael foster tanner guzzi ellie hulls I grew up in a large family too, but I wasn't a parent obviously. I was just one of the kids and now I have a lot more respect basically for guys who have a bunch of kids, which is what I want like a platoon But I'm also being confronted with the reality of handling even one child You know along I still have obviously the moms are on two or together Yeah, I can't even remind you Oh hell, yeah, yeah, Alyssa's nervous like she wants to wait like a year and I'm like, yeah, that's fine They recommend 18 months, you know, I don't really care but I definitely want to have a bunch and Because I'm an apex alpha male. I don't marry 50 year old single mothers like other man's sphere guys So she's got plenty of breeding time left in her, you know breeding time, okay The breeding window like but she still has eggs, you know as molly new stiffen molly new might say her eggs are not dead yet She's still fresh fresh eggs fresh eggs. Yeah, excellent Your book too though has really got me thinking a lot about the relationship Um, obviously this has been a topic on my mind for a couple years since I met Alyssa And we started dating and then we got engaged but it's been It's just been awesome to read your book because it makes me think about all the different issues like what can I improve? What can be better? Why did we come together? Um, what has been really, you know, are we similar? Are we different? Like how does that all work? And the truth is that we're very similar and your book has made me realize that even more and appreciate that even more Yeah, the the real focus of the book is um, what is this relationship bringing into your life and yeah Um I was real heavy on that message in early drafts I was separating the relationship from the person And what I had some people read it and they pointed out that was that was a little too It's just a little too complicated and more complicated than it needed to be So I talk about the relationship and what it brings into your life without really separating the two But they really are two separate entities There's the woman that that you're with and then there's the relationship that the two of you created And I talk about the qualities that this relationship should be bringing into your life It should bring bringing composure Rather than chaos So you've talked publicly about the chaos that you grew up in and and how much work it is to overcome that It should bring it bringing that it should be reading Dignity rather than shame you walk around you see you look around you see guys that are Just beaten into submission by their women like they're They're they're just driven by shame and what I mean by that is shame is this Emotional system that is meant to make you get small and get quiet so that you don't keep Making the same mistakes the way shame works is you sense that somebody out there in your community is upset with you You put the brakes on you slow down you stop doing everything so that you can figure out what it is That is making them angry you that's what shame does and you see guys that are just driven by this constantly So it should not be bringing that it should be bringing a sense of dignity where you this relationship helps you walk through the world With your head high like you coming on here today with your little baby and talking about how Well, things are going at home and how you've grown as a man because of that Like you're not getting smaller because of this relationship. You're getting bigger because of this relationship The relationship should bring that it should bring Resilience it should make you a stronger person rather than a weaker person That's another thing you've seen a lot of guys you see that they They're in the wrong relationship and they start to look physically smaller than they are you see guys that are that are beaten down and Like they they age too fast And they're unhealthy Well, their posture will change very quickly at baby. Yeah. Yeah, you can see that Yeah, you can even see that riva lino you probably see on twitter the green lines guy He draws all these green lines on celebrities and manager guys all all kinds of people no one's off limits with that guy I love it But you see the body language really is what he's pointing out and you see these men who are they do get smaller Especially I think you're staying over time too And the woman will hold them different and then she'll change your posture relative to him differently And these are the signs he's he's basically pointing out in a cartoonish way that these relationships are not healthy At least in my opinion in a way that's what he's doing really really well And the the body language and the posture are a really good example that your body, you know Your body speaks, you know million words a minute and you're that's kind of a goofy way to put it but Like a picture says a thousand words your body language says probably ten thousand There's a lot more going on we communicate nonverbally. I don't know what the percentage is but I think there's I think that number's pretty high people looking at that kind of stuff Yeah, so you see when a guy's losing his resilience in a relationship and I love her of lina I I um I follow him on twitter We've we've had a little back and forth here and there but one of the reasons I like him is because if I look at Old pictures of my wife and me like it's it's perfect like I would pass his test. I'm standing straight I'm not doing the cock shaming that he calls it like I'm standing straight and she's turned toward me And she's got her arms around me. She's not doing the claw and so Yeah, I don't know if what he says he's he's half joking. I think but half telling Half serious and yeah, one of the reasons I like him. I guess is because I look at my old pictures and I pass his test It's yeah for whatever that's worth. I don't know if it's worth anything, but it's I think it is I think you know, there's been psychologists that go after him I think in the in the media and like the news has gone after him and this kind of stuff They try to make a big deal out of it, but I really think is onto something It's a very loose science. I mean this is not this is not a rigorous scientific method But just analyzing how people behave and you see it too like with celebrities all the time I think there's a bunch of ones he does of like will smith these people have been through very publicly abusive toxic relationships And you see the way they carry themselves and you see the way the woman carries herself How does she show her legs and her her body and her hands and her arms? How does she treat the guy? There's a lot to it Yeah, I think that's why people he's caught people's attention because there is something to it And everybody knows there's something to it Yeah Yeah So I have some questions. I want to get into for the book a little bit more specifically Um, let's talk about love. I think there's a whole section towards the end of the book where it says love is not enough But love is also a word and I think you'll agree that you know, you rarely hear in the atmosphere Like I don't remember the last time I heard the word love mentioned in the atmosphere It's been years at least in terms of like a video broadcast somewhere. So there's like this very You have a bunch of guys who come in and they're the walking wounded. They want answers about male-female relationships Including stuff like love. Is it okay to love a woman? Is it what about romantic love? How important is it? Is it enough? Is it not enough? But then they're like deathly afraid of it Um, so can you talk to me about your views of love as a psychologist and how how it's entered in the book? Yeah, I handle it in a very specific fashion in the book And what I did with it is um, the book is organized around these five concepts. There's composure dignity resilience joy And love these are things that a relationship if you're going to commit yourself to a woman These are the things that you should get in return guys guys tend not to think In terms of you know, I'm going to give my commitment. What do I get in return for my commitment? And I'm encouraging guys to think about it in sort of that um Transactional nature at first and the way I handle love in the book is I don't even talk about it. I mentioned in the introduction, but then I say in the introduction we're not going to talk about love again until the very last chapter because Guys this has been documented pretty well that guys will fall for women more quickly than women fall for men We get possessive. We get we get attached. We want them in our lives. And so We will we will fall in love with a woman And then we will forget about what it is that this relationship is bringing into our life So we forget about composure dignity resilience joy And the way I handle love in the book is to put it at the very last and say We're not anything to talk about until we talk about these other things that have to be present in a relationship before You take love into consideration because you may love her But that's not enough if this relationship is tearing you down. And that's how I handle it in the book Yeah Well put I haven't gotten to that section yet at the end, but I appreciate that a lot Yeah, love is not enough if it's tearing you down if it's toxic In the beginning of the book too, you actually get into kind of a rough overview of the human brain And you try to basically help men begin to unravel emotional thinking like hindbrain stuff versus forebrain like logical thinking And using your brain specifically in the forebrain to make better long-term decisions Can you actually give us a brief overview of the human brain in this the same way you did in the book? Or for the guys who are not familiar with these ideas It's a theme I returned to you throughout the book, but the first part of the book is kind of heavy on how how the mind works and How it will it will screw you and then push you toward the wrong relationships and basically that the mind is Divided against itself and I could give an hour-long lecture on how the mind is divided against itself down All the way down to the level of neurons individual neurons gating neurons in your spine and Neurons gating neurons in your brain that make decisions when you have competing signals So you'll have competing signals coming from different different areas for example. Here's one Little kids run around falls down skins his knee So mom or dad picks up the kid and what does he do starts rubbing the back? Well, why would you rub the back the back didn't get hurt the knee got hurt and the reason you rub the back We don't know this but we've evolved to do this is It creates a competitive signal. So you have pain signals coming from the knee But then if you're rubbing the back that causes interference So in the spine you have neurons that are having to decide Do I put the pain signal through or do I put the pleasure signal through and doesn't make the pain stop? But it helps and so that's an example of our central nervous system competing with itself at a very basic level I don't go into that in the book but interesting interesting though because that's actually used in birthing these days This exact phenomena you're talking about the trend of flood the cns With basically through massage techniques massage like little thumpers percussion, whatever they're using This is what dualism stuff will do when a woman's in pain giving birth Yeah, that's the exact same process you're creating you're creating competition And so the all from the cellular level all the way up to modules of the brain Competing with each other So I do give an example in the book of a mice a mouse experiment where you have the ears of the mice Competing with the eyes and overriding what the eyes see And this is to advance the survival of the of the mouse But then really what matters for the book is that we have at a much higher level We have a rational mind that competes with the emotional mind The problem is the rational mind can't make you feel anything You can you can know what's right, but you can't feel You know that you can't really feel that that this is a good thing to do What's right, but your emotional mind when it's telling you to do something stupid It has access to your body so it can make you feel pain and it can make you feel pleasure And that's what makes the emotional mind so powerful and The principles that we learned about relationships when we're little kids And all the way through our development it gets wrapped up with our emotional minds So our emotional mind will compete with the rational mind even when you know what's right And it'll try to put us push us in a direction that it thinks is best Whether or not that direction is Best for us like the rational mind can think about the future the emotional mind thinks about right now What do I want right now that's going to advance my survival? It's going to make me feel better It's going to put me in a better position right now. It's not thinking about tomorrow So we're talking the book a little bit about how we have this competition going all the time and and another theme throughout the book is Let's tease out what your emotional mind learned about relationships early on Because if you know what it taught you early on that, you know what direction it's going to try to push you in going forward And if that's a good direction fine, check that box go forward But if it's pushing you in a direction that is going to work against you And we all have a little bit of that some of us have a lot of it then You bring that out into the light of day you put words to it and when you understand what it's doing Why it's doing it? Then you can have some options about whether or not you follow the emotional mind I think it's tough because it's it's it's painful sometimes to to override your emotional side But it's part of what a man does is you you ride through pain and you do what's right Yeah, the resilience I could talk about You know the last part you just mentioned here too Looking back on what your examples were of relationships What kind of what kind of actual principles do you have in your mind? Whether you're aware of them or not and I've had to think about that a lot myself over the years With elissa and now with the baby and stuff because I grew up in a super toxic environment with a super toxic Super toxic example that was present too was it was active a lot of guys in the man's sphere didn't have that they came from Sometimes their parents are married, but a lot of times they come from single mother households and stuff So they have a fatherlessness issue, but it's the absence of a father completely Um, I had a really toxic father who's like a violent alcoholic And their relationship corresponded to that for you know for 40 years They ended up being married until he died recently So I've had to kind of unravel on my own head like and put you know Actually think about stuff explicitly talk about it sometimes and all that with friends and family and stuff about what happened And then also try to like unravel what those principles were that may have gotten stuck on my head They're just totally fucking dysfunctional Um, and the man's sphere helps helps a lot of guys do this, but it can also go of course like we mentioned with like this rampant This total trust of anything that's total trust of anything the counterculture Like mainstream is bad anything that says mainstream is bad is good and that is absolutely not a real life works And the man's sphere is probably one of the one of the shining examples of that over the past couple years with the clown show Dumpster fire that it's become Yeah, and the man is fair when they when they talk about doing the work They're talking about making money getting stronger getting more educated and that's all good stuff They don't talk about doing the work of figuring out where you came from so that you don't repeat it Like you came from this god-awful chaotic environment and i'm guessing That if you didn't do the work of dissecting that and figuring out What you learned from that then some aspect of that you'd be prone to repeating and and recreating in your life And totally totally and this it's not really a feature of the man is fair that they don't do this It's a feature of people that we don't do this. It's not we're not really inclined to look inward and say, okay What is my compulsion to repeat here? Yeah, you gotta do that work too Yeah, actually, uh, this is a question I had for written down a little bit later But we'll get into it now because you just brought up something very relevant to it Um, about a month ago a month and a half Pat Stubman our very good friend The world's number one hypergamy coach dating coach hyper Stubman He um, he did a really good tweet. It was a long tweet too. It wasn't a short. It was like one of the extended ones Uh discussing how the man is fair to become a place where a lot of men really are not interested in change Any meaningful way? And so you hear these that these phrases and kind of this hyper reality I would call it of do the work do the work do the work and on the surface These are good messages And like men should do the work like get up go to the gym do it once a week forever Or twice a week forever like for years and years and years Change your diet actually make the changes you need to do go out and talk to a bunch of women Like this is hard work takes time time and effort it could be uh It could be emotional it can be painful getting rejected by women getting drinks thrown on you Who knows all kinds of crap happens But Pat's point in the tweet is that the man is furious become a place where that has really become Like sidelined and they don't want to do the work. They don't want to change. They really don't Independent of whatever they say. That's just like that's just hot air. What do they actually do? They just want a bitch about women. They want a super chat 25 year old bimbos and pretend that they're red pill alpha males and all this like goofy stuff that just makes no sense And see I think it's it's really become a place where we used to call them keyboard jockeys And it it was like mental masturbation in the old hemisphere But these days that's become like the dominant thing rather than a minority That was kept in check So I don't know if you've seen that yourself or have thoughts on that Yeah, I wasn't like I said, I wasn't aware of the manosphere the red pill corner and so forth before I wrote the tactical guide to women I was vaguely wearing pickup artistry And I had mixed feelings about pickup artistry because it can get real dark real quick It can be manipulative and evil, but there are some good Coaches out there. There's some good pickup artists out there and and what they're doing What? Yeah, what they what I was noticing then I'm sure what some of them still do is good basic behavioral psychology where Okay, you're anxious about something Good go out and do it now. So let's let's come up with a strategy if you're anxious about approaching women Let's come up with a strategy for you to expose yourself to that anxiety They don't talk about on those terms, but you expose yourself to that anxiety You go out and you experience that a thousand times and then guess what your anxiety you get some mastery over it And they didn't speak about it in psychological terms, but that's what they were that's what some of them do is Good behavioral psychology for anxiety That's exactly what I did for years and that was heavily encouraged I mean the old man is the manosphere. I've been around for 18 years really observing it participating in it making content Whatever mostly conferences and speeches from the conferences, but other stuff too And yeah, and the old there's basically I've been around so long I've seen cycles of it like multiple cycles like five-year cycles of like what's new what's trending What's repeating or echoing from 10 years ago? Like these guys these days have no idea because it's gotten so big and it's so fresh in their minds but I'm like I'm so young but I feel so old sometimes I'm like these young whipper snappers Who are like 29 years old? I'm like you goofy goofy guys But anyway the old manosphere was aggressively pro getting guys out of the house going to talk to women and exposing yourself to those social and emotional risks Of confronting things that are scary to you like oh, you're scared to talk to women to submit it And then go talk to a thousand women. I talked to like I approached personally like almost 7 000 women from 2006 until 2020 about 2020 when covid hit And that's a lot and that's more than most guys ever talked to in their life But by exposing myself to exactly what you're talking about I desensitized myself to that and this is totally common in the old manosphere This was like the the thing you had to do and if you didn't you got made fun of you were ashamed Stop being a beta stop being a goofball get out of the house Stop writing go talk to women then come back and talk or write whatever you want there was like basically there was There was masculine standards that you had to be held up to And this is why even though I would anger just like these days. I pissed everyone off in the atmosphere This was no different in like 2007 But there was a level of respect that I had because I was so aggressive and going out And they love that as a role model for other young men because that's exactly what they wanted all the young guys to do Back when the manosphere was a little bit healthier place Yeah, and so you go out and you you approach 7 000 women and At the end of that you're no longer Afraid to approach women But I'm going to guess that that's a skill that generalizes to other areas because The the real skill is facing anxiety. It really it has nothing to do with women It has to do with identifying something out there that scares you and looking at it and moving toward it And there are still guys out there like we were talking about rivalino earlier He posted um on twitter something this week about having social courage. It was a great tweet about Go out and do things that scare you and his examples weren't even about women. They were Go take a tennis class and look like a goofball go Invite you know throw a party and invite people over and risk that no one's going to show up And there was a third one that he gave where it was just like embrace your anxiety and it was a great tweet And that's the part of the manosphere that that I like Yeah, yeah, it's one of the he's definitely one of the better guys and he's anonymous and that's okay That's not the end of the world But yeah, there's still some good guys and he's definitely one of the he's a bigger account too He's got probably 200k people following him now, which I love to see. I love I love uh real people real ass mofos Cruely speaking that post real content and have real ideas and are not just like theory jockeys Yeah Yeah, I think I think I think with approaching women it it brings him back to what you're talking about in the beginning of the book with Using your forebrain to conquer or manage your decisions better You like conquer the hindbrain like yeah, you're scared like yeah, like your brain is wired to Not talk to women. You don't know because you might get killed And for a long a long period of human history, you definitely could get killed You definitely could talk to the wrong woman or make the wrong move and get hit over the head with a rock And that's it. There's no cops. There's no hospital. You just die and it can still happen on occasions So yeah back when we're not under the rule of law. Yeah, I imagine it happened much more frequently Yeah, and that's what our brain's adapted to though and evolved to as I understand it This is the in the old manus or two would talk about this This is the old pickup artists like mystery and those kind of guys They would talk about this all the time And it would help guys though understand it and then kind of get over it And yeah, I don't uh, god, I talked to so many women all those years Got ridiculous, but it was useful and like you said it would uh spill over to other areas of life I think it improved vastly my public speaking ability Like public speaking would give me more social courage and was its own challenge And that would spill over into just like talking to women at a bar But then talking to 2000 women that would then spill over back to public speaking So people wonder like how I got into public speaking. It's through the events But then I got better at it just by talking in like different social situations Yeah, anytime you face anxiety you get better at facing anxiety It's like learning to play the piano facing anxiety is a skill that you can develop like anything else Hmm By the way, we got a super chat from Don Juan Plaguez is zero. I don't know what's going on with his name, but I appreciate the five bucks Never forget Sean beat trolo in a debate. That's true Uh, the grandmother of the manusphere trolo Uh, rolery tamacia colmic like hillary. Yeah, dr. Smith. Have you heard of psychologist mackin murphy? If so, what's your take on him? Thank you. I have not heard of this person somebody I need to look into apparently Yeah, uh, Don Juan if I have not I have not Most of the psychologist I know are named Sean Smith Uh, and then your buddies who were therapists like Ken Curry, Robert Glover A few more. Um, that one guy I wrote the uh, the body keeps his score. I like him a lot. He's a psychiatrist This is his name. He's a german guy Vandercook. That's a Vandercook. Yeah, best of Vandercook. Yeah, I like him a lot And obviously the youtube's number one psychology guru richard granon Yeah, he's fun to listen to I like him Yeah Unstoppable too. He keeps going So in getting back to this thing of conquering anxiety one of the things I talked about Well, the the major theme in the book probably is let's figure out what it is about you What specifically what is it that your emotional mind is afraid of and what is it drawn to and If it's afraid of the right thing and drawn to the right thing then cool You're you're in good, but there's probably something in there that Yeah, it might be afraid of the healthy thing and and drawn to the unhealthy thing I was certainly drawn to the unhealthy things earlier in life Yeah, same. I've talked about um, you know my previous marriage Which is one of the reasons I was so I actually did a lot of what you're I'm not some perfect example role model of What you want guys to do necessarily with this book, but In between my first marriage to a literal prostitute And then meeting alissa. I was you know out approaching woman, you know, so so to speak dating woman very short term and all this kind of stuff, but I was also Very very very protective of my commitment Like I refused to like even alissa had to fight like hell to be my girlfriend for like over a year I'm in a really really really put her through the ringer. Maybe a little too much, but maybe that was for the best as well Because I was so protective of that. I was a huge like man whore In terms of like sexual promiscuity, but in terms of commitment promiscuity, there was none zero Like you could not get through that because I was so after that experience at medusa, I was uh I don't know if scared is the right word But I was very concerned about getting into another relationship like that that would not be healthy And that if it did result in marriage, then you have another failed marriage And as you probably know every time you get married and divorced You're probably your probability of getting that of getting divorced again goes up And I really didn't want to do that I wanted to make sure the next time The next time I got married and the next time I wanted to build a family. I nailed it Not only for myself, but for my kids You mentioned that in the book too that guys who are going to make great fathers are thinking about it before the fact And I definitely was I go I was giving she was you know cracking up, you know learning this not too long ago I started giving her supplements that I thought were useful for fertility and for the health of a baby Very soon after I met her Just in the event that I knocked her up or wanted to knock her up on purpose So either on accident or on purpose just preemptively uh kind of doing that And maybe that's a little bit sociopathic, but She dug it and I didn't even tell her that I was like now You need to get these supplements start eating this kind of stuff Because I'm thinking ahead and into her spaghetti You were actually giving it to her and saying take this stuff Yeah, exactly because it would just improve her overall health and to me That's one of the most important things you can do for the health of your future children is for you to be healthy This is called epigenetics is the kind of The number one the conditions for a woman to get pregnant, you know, you need to raise us as good as you can You want her body to be healthy to go through a very serious? Biological event that's like very taxing on her body But on top of that both of you want to maximize your own genetic expression It's important you work out. It's important you eat healthy not only for yourself But for your kids because that it's uh, it's gonna improve gene expression basically and reduce chances for birth defects and all kinds of stuff Yeah, this is the kind of stuff I thought about but these girls never believed it They just assume it's like alpha giga chat, but i'm like I need to make sure this girl is healthy and fertile and ready to get knocked up Yeah, so you're an example of when that statistic is not true So that statistic that with each successive divorce The risk of divorcing again goes up and we know statistically that is Very true but I don't know any research to confirm this but my my observation is that that's true when people don't do the work of figuring out Their role in the first marriage or the or the previous marriage So if they don't do the work of figuring out how they contributed to that outcome Then they just go out and they reenact it again But you you know, I've known you for a while and I've I've watched you working through this You've worked through it very publicly that you did not want to repeat that first mistake And you came you came from such chaos that of course, that's where you ended up, right? Yeah, as as a younger man But you saw that happen to yourself and you've been doing this work that said i'm this is not going to happen again And yeah, I've seen you do a tremendous amount of work, you know, just from a distance over a period of years This wasn't a period of two weeks like this this takes time to overcome when we came from and so That's how you don't increase The chances of a second or worse. That's how you decrease the chances of a second or worse Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. You know something you just mentioned too Yeah, the childhood home environment was so toxic and so chaotic that of course it's where I ended up marrying a prostitute Uh on top of that though, I've mentioned this briefly once years ago with Richard Richard Cooper actually when he interviewed me about it 2017 I think That living with a woman who is basically a bpd kind of crazy hooker Literally a prostitute that was actually 10 times calmer and less chaotic and smoother Even though it was a dysfunctional unhealthy relationship relative to what I actually grew up around It was a it was it sounds cartoonish But it was a major step in the right direction in terms of what I grew up around which is this absolute drugs and violence Like non-stop cops coming over all the time Shit some dropped Um, so I thought that was that's one of the things I had to figure out and I didn't understand that early on Like I didn't just wake up a week after I split up from this woman and figure this out It took like it took like over a year to figure that out So let me say that back to you and see if I got there right that what you saw was Less unhealthy, but it wasn't unhealthy because you know what healthy was Which is what this book is about what is healthy like it's not enough to just know what's not healthy You got to know what is healthy and that's where you that's where you are now is Healthy end of the spectrum. I I try that's the goal. But yeah, I had no idea I had absolutely no idea what a healthy male female adult relationship looked like All I knew what all I knew is what bad was so I could spot that but when I grew up around too is also very overt It was very obviously chaotic and dangerous and violent And so that's also what led to that medusa kind of toxic relationship that marriage is that a lot of it was very It was a different style. I was not familiar with and so that also was one of the reasons It was inevitable too that I'd find like a super crazy chick Who has then had a very covert kind of style and a kind of method for the abuse and stuff Yeah, but it's it was a it's been a learning experience Like you said though to focus on healthier relationships and build them and that That's another thing that the man is here. I don't want to talk about this with you that It's almost like especially with the vasectomy stuff you see recently There's a lot of like don't get the don't get married stuff is like really taken off even worse than it used to be So it's like don't have relationships. Don't get married. Don't cohabitate ever Ever in a million years until the laws all change all of them Which ones who knows but they all have to change before you can cohabitate and get married Don't build a family. Don't get a vasectomy in your 20s when you're 25 I mean this stuff has like gotten just totally nuts Yeah, and I guess if your goal is you want to eliminate all risk Then I guess you go that direction But the problem is that when you try to eliminate all risk you just create other risks So for example, we know that Men who end up alone On average this is not every guy like you can make your own individual choices and defy the statistics But guys who end up alone they they have Higher risks of cancer they have higher risk of illness and and um I can't think of the word which is ironic. Um, probably drug abuse when you age and you can't think of words Oh dementia. Yeah dementia. I was about to say president bite. What is president bite now? There's dementia. So, um, Actually, I'm not supposed to say that out loud, but I think we all know it. Um I'm not supposed to say it out loud because I'm a psychologist. I'm not supposed to diagnose so Forget that I said that But you know when you try to avoid when you try to eliminate all risk by isolating You're just creating the risk that are associated with isolation, which is Certain mental and physical health problems. And again, it doesn't mean you're you're destined to have those things But there's no free ride in life. So One alternative to trying to eliminate all risk is to try to learn how things work and make the best decisions that you can And how may yeah, maybe you get burned. Of course, maybe you get burned. That's how the world works But I mean you can hide in your basement for the rest of your life And that seems to be a lot of what the advice out there like you got this pearl chick out there telling I have no idea what her deal is, but she's telling guys get a vasectomy. Don't get married. What the hell? Well, she stole it. She stole it from the fraud father I mean it was any of her own a lot of most of what she does is just parroting other people's stuff Uh, but then kind of hyperbalizing it. But yeah, that comes from other people too And the fraud father rollery is is one of them lately I think he tried walking it back later, you know when it went his little tweet on getting a vasectomy went viral I really upset a lot of the conservatives and stuff But yeah, it's like this this aggressive push to eliminate all risk. It's not healthy No, it is not. Well, I mean, I guess if you want to live in your basement for the rest of your life, that's fine That's what a guy wants to do. I'm not here to guys I'm not here to tell guys to get married or don't get married do what you want to do But what I don't like is when anxiety runs a person's life Then go Yeah, I think you just hit that Really just hit the nail in the head because I've been thinking about this a lot lately with the content creators who promote this stuff It's not just pearl. It's not just the fraud father It's others too kind of migtail guys and stuff like that And I had a lot of patience from migtail because I wanted to see like how they would evolve over time Is this little wing of the man's spirit going to mature? Is it going to like collapse? What's going to happen with it? And it's just gotten more and more stupid over time And I think a lot of it is this thing. It's a run by anxiety It's like who are the most beta guys who are the most risk averse and the most anxiety ridden Circle jerking each other Excuse my language And to this this cycle of avoid all women avoid all relationships avoid building a family Until the laws change Which law they don't even know what law is number one So it's like what are you talking about when the laws do change like in florida We just had major updates to alimony laws Divorce laws other stuff like that child custody even we now have default 50 50 custody which is excellent I think that's the objectively best thing for children and exactly what the government should do We have that now and I mean a major state in the right direction for sure Yeah, other stuff too perfect But yeah, you got you got to acknowledge the successes when they come along And I think you're saying that a lot of these guys won't even acknowledge the successes because they're so scared Exactly it was crickets. I was one of the only guys in the manusphere at promoting Or announcing this news that floridas had finally passed major 20 years It took to pass all the stuff right get it signed in the law about the governor and all that There's you could hear a pin drop in the manusphere when it happened No one was talking about nobody cared because it's not It's funny how these manager guys will make fun of mainstream news because it's like this negative Extremely negative cycle of news to get people's attention. We're all gonna die COVID is gonna kill us all Everything is gonna burn down tomorrow. We're all doomed And then it's like you do the same thing because you don't ever want to talk about anything positive Even with major positive changes for men and fathers in the exact way that you want them to happen You don't even say anything. There's no celebration. There's no champagne There's not even like oh, this is great. Like let's talk about it. Nothing. It's just silence and it just aggravates the crap out of me Yeah, and in that in that particular case There's a lot of unsung heroes behind the scenes because when you think about men's rights activists You think about the well at least I think about the unhinged guys on on twitter that They'll come after you if you disagree with any little thing that they say But the real men's rights activists are the the people who are working behind the scenes They're not high profile. They're trying to change laws or trying to affect Improvements and they actually succeeded here and we don't even get to know who they are Yeah, I'm sure somebody knows who they are, but they did a hell of a job and I hope they keep going Yeah, I mean some of the most powerful guys that actually advocate for men's rights are like that carnell smith is one of them Who's spoken at our events a couple times fine madam in 2021? He was very successful in the 2000s at getting laws changed in like uh six states For paternity laws paternity fraud and stuff like that He doesn't have a youtube channel. He has I think like a facebook account or something. That's about it He's not being a social media. He doesn't really care is what he cared about was activism was actually getting things done Like not even talking about it, but like what do I do to actually get this done? He was able to do that. That's another guy you don't hear enough about Even though he's actually one of the few men who went out and got a lot of stuff done Yeah, I don't I don't know his name. So yeah, I look into him too Yeah, he's on the channel. You'll see some of his videos that gone viral too some of the shorts and stuff like that Yeah, he had a pretty nasty case of paternity fraud that He had actually get the laws changed to file a lawsuit against the baby mama and he got it worked out in the end He even had the the judge who was like mocking him early on at the signing of the law When it when he actually came into law and the judge apologized to him this for being there Yeah, kind of I forget. I don't know if Maybe mocking's not the right word but this judge was like not having it because this case was very legit This woman had defrauded him knowingly for years had written to her friends about defrauding him He brought this into court. He couldn't get anywhere with it. Like this is absurd That's what made him so angry Uh, so yeah anger anger motivated his his rage To change his laws and change the system and he did for the better And then a lot of men benefited from it in george and other states Yeah, his speeches are on our channel. You guys can check it out if i'm not uh recounting the story correctly But I believe that's what happened with them So a story like his is complicated and it's kind of difficult to tell accurately and I guess people think it's not that interesting so it doesn't get out there But then you have someone like pearl saying get a vasectomy and then that spreads like wildfire Yeah Yeah, she's really good at outrage broken. She's I think she's saying things that she knows are wrong and goofy and stupid But she knows that if she says them in the right way that most people are not going to think twice About why she said it And they're just going to complain and they're going to bitch and they're going to outrage and they're going to yell at her and this and that And this is how your friend, uh, you know a ryan. He's done a video about this This is why the red pill stuff takes off Because they're just gaming the algorithm and these algorithms by big tech. It's a feedback loop It's not just as goofy stuff going on and it's organically taking off It's that the algorithms design about big tech these computer programs or these the software Is specifically designed to target this kind of stuff and make it spread Yeah, that's why I ignore I'm talking about her now, but I ignore on on twitter and everywhere else Yeah, she's not worth discussing or retreating or anybody who says go out and get a vasectomy now Yeah, they deserve to be ignored Yeah, there's nothing alpha about weeding yourself out of the gene pool, especially in your 20s I think a lot of doctors won't even give you a vasectomy if you're under 25 Because you're basically too young to understand how permanent this is it's not really that reversible We have an attendee who went through it. He had a vasectomy and uh early 30s Then he got it undone in his late 30s. He's attended a couple times at the event someone say his name, but you probably met him And it was extremely painful getting it undone. They basically as he put it fillet your balls open And it's expensive insurance won't cover it. I think it was like $15,000 before Uh, you know inflation these days And then on top of that he has to have an orgasm every day for the rest of his life Uh to the extent that he still wants children every day. He has to do that Or the repairs they did that undid the vasectomy will heal back over they'll scar back over and then he's back to ground zero with it So it's like the idea that it's even reversible is delusional like it's super painful and you don't want it and then you have to You have to bust a nut every day forever This is what his doctor told him or it's going to heal right back over and you're screwed and what he did Will be for nothing in vain Yeah, and I wonder if if these guys like pearl and rola would say well the reason they're recommending vasectomy is because it's reversible and okay sometimes a little bit, but yeah, you don't you don't count on that Yeah, and that's why doctors won't even do it if you're under 25 Because you they'll tell you oh, it's going to be painful and it's going to cost you 20 grand If you want to undo it later, but at 23 years old, you're not thinking long term like that Your brain's not even developing at that age. You can't you can't just think long term well anyway at that point But give me a ray of sunshine here Is is the man's for headed in any kind of good decision in any direction where we're gonna have good conversations again I hope so I don't maybe maybe the uh Maybe you have to hit rock bottom before things can bounce up kind of like a ball bouncing It's got to go all the way down and hit something before it bounces back up So yeah, I'd say it's gotten pretty bad the past couple years But I think it might have a bright feature still Maybe this was inevitable too with the man's sphere that's it encountered It's really hit mainstream past like 18 months Between Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuel's all this kind of stuff. It's really gotten a lot of attention I remind what we did with make one great again in 2020. It was kind of the first wave of that Um, but yeah, I think I might have a better future and right now It's just going through a growing pain in a growing phase And my hope is that that's natural that it gets super stupid and super goofy right now But maybe those guys will burn out that's been my experience as a lot of these charlatans don't have the They don't have the willpower to stick around long term because they don't really care There's their values on our line with what they're talking about. It's all BS They're just saying stuff that's you know Whatever they can do to catch the waves of social media and stuff and go viral to basically cash out And then get banned and then cash out again and then you know do all this kind of stuff See how these people they're not going to stick around people think that they will they have a big channel They have a million subscribers. They'll be here forever. That's not how youtube works I've seen a lot of guys with millions of subscribers burn down go bankrupt go out of business and they're they're gone These are youtubers from 10 years ago that were about big in their day Six pack shortcuts mike chang is a good example. He was huge on youtube the big asian guy on steroids, right? I'm mike chang i'm your buddy and they teach you how to get six pack abs And in the end he has nothing his company went somehow these major problems It went bankrupt. It was taken from him the channel collapsed like all this kind of stuff And with a lot of these people that are getting demonetized and banned and just giving up and just goofing off Yeah, so I don't know where i'm going with this kind of ranting But I think a lot of these goofballs will just kind of screw off over time And in the end, uh, you'll have better voices kind of like spring up like your friend aryan Blowing up is a really good example of that Yeah, I hope that more voices like his come along. Um, I don't know if he'd call himself a member in the Manusphere. I don't know if I am or not, but it's it's certainly a message that appeals to to men. So Yeah, he's yeah, he's well spoken and articulate and thoughtful Well, he's a critic of it at the very least and very well aware of it and that to me is close enough I'm sure feminists at the new york at some New york times would gladly stick you as a member of the manusphere And what do you do mike? Oh, I'm not like well, you are There's it's like it's like, uh, you know, feminism is very similar It's extremely loosely organized movement and ideology Like who's a feminist and who's not because you have a lot of conservative women That would say that they're not but then they espouse ideas and beliefs that are very much Aligned with feminism traditionally and there's blissfully unaware of it Yeah, the feminism is an interesting thing I have this theory that you ever hear the story of that That japanese soldier after world war two he was on an island by himself and he didn't know that the war was over and so 30 years later. He's he still thinks he's on this island. He still thinks we're at war and he People told him. Hey, we're not at war and he said well I'm gonna need to talk to somebody from the high command because I never got the word, right? So he's on this island. He's still fighting world war two in 1970 and I think that's sort of what happened with feminism where You had some things that that feminism wanted to change and some of them. I think needed to change And then the war was over and all the reasonable people all the reasonable women went home And so what you're left with is a bunch of weirdos who are still fighting the war from 40 years ago And yeah or longer or longer or longer. Yeah, they're fighting a war from the 1800s It doesn't need to be fought anymore. And so the only ones that want to hang around these weirdos are other weirdos and I think that's what Doctrinaire feminism has become now most people who call themselves feminists. They don't know that they're talking about this post-modernist Philosophy, they don't know that they're talking about the zero-sum game And you know the men and women being opposed. I think they're just talking about men and women having equal rights and responsibilities That's what the feminist next door. I think means when she calls herself a feminist But I don't know about the the responsibilities part. I would probably I would remove that part Because it's equal rights. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Um, yeah, but that's not what's taught on campus on campus It's this militant ideology and there are a bunch of just deranged weirdos. I don't know why anybody wants to hang out with them I've actually thought about this is interesting because I have a similar take on it But it's a little bit different too and it's that feminism was some people like janice femango professor janice femango steve brulee and others that Analyze and criticize the history of feminism What it really is versus how it's presented today and the the kind of huge gap of ignorance between the two So their view is that feminism has always had toxic ideas in it And that so basically it was never some pure movement from the beginning Maybe it was a lot less bad and I would say that's true from 150 years ago You certainly didn't see uh, I would call chicks with dicks And all this stuff today the gender ideology that's taken over the hardcore stuff the trans stuff like this has really gotten out of control It's teaching young teaching young girls that they should get a double mastectomy at age 12 Like this is ludicrous is insanity And this is what I just to interject real quickly This is the next thing I need to yell the apa about because they're they're completely on board with mutilating children But anyway, go ahead. Yeah, I'm all about that. Let me know when the video is ready um, but my point what I've been thinking about is if feminism At the very least it was never perfect, but it was probably a lot less toxic 150 years ago And even 100 years ago and 50 years ago and all that kind of stuff So I think it had it gradually and maybe at some points exponentially at certain thresholds It got more toxic over time And I've asked myself why that is because the mana sphere is still like a young movement at best it's like 25 30 years old and I've seen it go from 2005 when I found it To more stupid and more goofy and more cartoonish over time And it was not a smooth transition like I didn't just observe this every day. Like oh, it's 1% like goofier and stupider today But at certain threshold you kind of realize there's certain after some amount of time goes by like this has really gotten more retarded Like this is not a movement that's getting better. It's getting worse over time like entropy Like it's actually, you know dissolving in a chaos But my thinking is that one of the reasons one of the risks of the mana sphere going forward Is that there's not enough pushback on frauds And this is what motivates me in part to push back on the goofy stupid delusional pseudo scientific crap the cults to this to that the fraud the deception the lies And I think feminism basically didn't have that either and maybe that's one of the reasons why I got so toxic over time Like 100 years ago is quite a bit better than what it is now and how to get to where it's at now Nobody spoke up or the the same people like you said left the room They won some little war and they left and what you had left over Were people building bureaucracies and these fake nonprofits Right chasing ghosts like the patriarchy is is a big ghost. It's gonna get you it's a boogeyman And meanwhile we live in something closer to a soft matriarchy or a gynaocracy