 Okay, nice one. I'll start reading the antitrust policy of the Linux foundation. Linux foundation meetings involve participation by industry competitors, and it's the intention of the Linux foundation to conduct all of its activities in accordance with applicable antitrust and competition laws. It is therefore extremely important that these deeds missing genders and be aware of and not participate in any activities that are previously under applicable US state federal for foreign antitrust and competition laws. Examples of types of actions that prohibits it at Linux foundation meetings and in connection with Linux foundation activities are describing limits foundation and trust policy. If you have questions about these matters, please contact your account company council, or if you are a member of Linux foundation, feel free to contact entry of the growth of the firm of gas mirror of the growth, which provides legal counsel to the Linux foundation. Hyperledger is committed to creating safe and welcoming community for more information, please visit our hyperledger code of conduct. So welcome everybody. And it's my pleasure to introduce you to an idiot, namely in the person of good, not Colin and Lars Hansen for me is like going back to the roots today because they are both Swedish and I've been working for a Swedish company for a long time. So it's my pleasure to release base for them to introduce their solution and to see an interaction with DLT's and hyperledger solutions. You know, would you like to start first or loss. Yeah, hi everyone so really, really happy to be here. Thank you Andrea we are we are chopped that that we were invited to this session. So really happy about that. Before I dig into them to the meat and potato here, maybe we should do a quick update on who we are and maybe you would like to start. Is that okay. Yeah. I'm sorry for this sorry about this large but I think it would be good. Yes, so people know you when we have questions and all this little bit. Thank you. Yeah. No worries. I think we are recovering bankers as we like to say, and I have a long banking banking background and approaching retirement to be quite honest, but I'm not going to retire because this is too much fun. I did electronic banking in the 80s and to be quite honest, functionally, not a lot of things have happened. We could actually do things that we are doing today on the internet with large corporates, the services for their in the 80s. The only area today and then that was not digitized was negotiable instruments and documents of title. This is a pain point that I experienced when I was deputy head of risk on group lovely in SAP. So I ended up doing cash management and ended my career in banking being one of those corporate guys who provided the biggest line in history. I'm here for hello I'm from headquarters. I'm here to help you. Not always true, according to the business. So, and I'm going to go and I will colleagues. And so I am, I, what I, my contribution is this is was really to specify the requirements for a negotiable instrument or a document of title in a digital environment. That's my background. And yes, so so large and I we we we've been working together previously and it's really good to be to be working for it need you now. I would I would like to run through through a few slides so we all understand what's going on here and once I've done that I think we should have an open discussion and questions and answers, because I think that might be the case. So, just building a little bit on what what large said so we at the need you we are not only sort of recovering bankers we we have sort of tech guys and, and maybe more importantly, sort of people are really engaged and were really really deep in archiving and especially digital archiving. When I first came across these guys, I thought that they were really, really pointy heads and they were really focusing on things that might not be that important but I have actually changed my mind. It's really, really important, especially these days when when when you work with sort of digital data that you know what you're doing and making sure that you can keep sort of your data safe and you will be able sort of to to manage it and and retrieve it in in in a really good way. And this sort of competence around this and also very, very much knowledge around around tech and cryptography, and then later on combined with sort of knowledge about how a bank works has actually made this company come alive and and this is this is the reason why we have this very, very particular solution that I will get back to you in a minute. So in slides you should all also sort of emphasis so the current problem. And obviously, we all know this because we are all into trade finance that there are so many things that needs to be fixed. There are too many paper documents flying around the globe. And there it's very, very cumbersome with today's processes to to interact and to exchange data. And if that wasn't sort of enough. There is also a lot of fraud and and sort of suspicious activities and and money laundering activities going on that you need sort of to to be able to manage and and and cope with and and all of this has obviously all come together during these horrible coven 19 times. So, so a lot of things we need to fix and and a lot of initiatives going on out there. But as Andrea said maybe maybe it's time to go back a little bit to basics and this is this is what what I would like to do. And as I mentioned we are, we are into archiving we're into tech we're into banking. And if you think about it a paper document is a really good standard. And I think this has been somewhat forgotten, because these days, everyone is is trying desperately to scrape off anything that is written on a document and put that data into a computer system or a blockchain and then have everyone sort of going on to the same system and starting sort of interchanging that data between themselves. And it seems like we all forgotten that sort of the sheet of paper actually represents something in itself. And this is this is really the core of what we're doing at the need you we are, we are, we don't really care about what people are sort of having what kind of information or data they they're dealing with we are more concerned with how do you actually replicate the awesome standard of the paper sheet into the digital world. Because as I mentioned, people seem to have forgotten about about the fact that that that the paper actually represents very in very important things. And this is this is what we are all about we're all about sort of creating things that behave and act exactly the same way as a paper does in in the physical world and replicating that into the digital world. That is not trivial though, because you have to be very careful and and there are solutions out there but from what we have seen sort of a scanned image is not good enough, it's not a good way of digitizing sort of a paper document. There are really good PDF solutions or a PDF solutions out there you can make them really safe and secure but but there are a few things that you actually cannot do with the PDF. And these are the things that we have worked on, and these are the things that we have actually solved so so there are, in my mind, seven key functions of our solution that sort of sets us apart to everything else that that is available and and that is out there So the first thing is is really being able to distinguish the original from from a copy. And as Lars mentioned, this might not not be a very important in in many cases, but but in some cases it's crucial, and especially in trade finance when when when you deal with bills of exchange promissory notes warehouse receipts or even bills of lading. Which you know, if you are in possession of the original or if you only have a copy, and that copy might be very secure and very safe but if you can have a billion of them, they are not very valuable for for creating bills of exchange for instance so so this is the first thing that we set out to solve. The second thing is is all around possession and and I usually say this that you all you all have a lot of papers lying around and you know that you own those pieces of paper and you know what's written on them. And this is also very important in the digital world that you know that you are in control of the original and that you are in control over the content that is actually written in this original so it's not stored somewhere else so it's stored actually in the document and and that you can own it. And you know that you are in possession of it and no one else. Furthermore, transfer ability is also really key so having sort of created a digital original it's not much worth if you cannot sort of transfer that original from one person or one entity to another one so you need to be able to transfer the one original to a new party. And once you've done that this new party needs to be able to continue to manage and work with the document and write whatever they want on it or add a signature or add an appendix or anything. So this is really key so the document cannot be stale it needs to be dynamic, but it needs to be sort of open for new content only for the one that is actually in possession of the of the one original. I think also it's important to mention that that our solution was really created in order to comply with current laws and legislation provided that they are technology neutral. And therefore you also need to be able to stand in front of a court of law and be able to say that I'm in possession of the one original and you need to be able to prove that. The document also needs not only to be distinguished your original from the copy be able to prove that you're in possession of the one original transfer it to a new party, but you also need to be able to present this and prove that this is the case. So these are four key features of our solution and if you think about it. Once again, these are actually to a very large extent what sort of the paper sheet represents in the in the physical world. This is what we replicated digitally, but but you get a few other good things with this. First of all, you will get sort of a digital document that is immutable, because now I will get back to the to the DLT technology that we use it makes them immutable. You will also have the full traceability and the full audit trail of what has happened to this document in the document. So it will not sit anywhere else it will be in the document so anyone who comes in possession of the latest original will be able to see what has happened to it previously. And as I mentioned, since we we are just focusing on recreating the sheet of paper so whatever data you put into our documents it stays in the document. So it's not leaked anywhere else sort of the business data and and if you use personal data will be in the document. So you will not have any data privacy issues because it will you will not share the data anywhere else. And also if you look at this from from a GDPR perspective if you if you happen to deal with personal data, and someone wants to be forgotten, you can actually delete the document exactly the same way as you do with the physical one. So let's just summarize a little bit so we created digital documents and we store the data in the documents, so nothing is stored on the blockchain, but we have a blockchain the only thing we use sort of the blockchain for is actually to store the evidence of the document. So if you go on to our website and you look at the blockchain you will only see sort of the hashes, nothing else so you cannot extract or detract any any business data from the blockchain and and we wouldn't know anything, anything about about sort of the the business content or whatever you put you written in your document. So, how do we actually do this so first of all just quickly you know a physical document as I said we have replicated, because we think it's a really good standard the paper. So in the physical world you have a piece of paper, and then you write something on the piece of paper, then you know what's written on the piece of paper and you know what's not written on it. And in order for, for a physical document to have some kind of value it needs to contain a promise and someone has to sign this promise with wedding. So this is this is how you create paper documents in the physical world, we all know this. We often tend to forget this that once you press print and you create a paper original you created a little cost monster. And you have to babysit this cost one monster throughout its lifetime so it's very costly and cumbersome and time consuming to deal with paper documents. Because you have to store them you have to manage them you have to retrieve them you have to do a lot of things with them, especially if there are documents of value. What is really really bad these days I would say is that when when banks and companies think that they are going digital they scan the documents. But really what happens is that they create two versions of the same thing. So then you suddenly have you have two documents. You will not know if the data is is matched between them to and you have dual processes. And you actually have have dual costs as well for for managed in this whole thing so we think this is this is really really bonkers and I think you agree with it. So what we do is that instead of paper. If you if you come to us and you want to issue or create a digital original document we we work with that with a normal data file, and we just add content to the file. And then in order to replicate sort of what the paper sheet borders represent physically we use the the we hash the content and thereby we it's it's sort of closed and it's contained within the document. And then we publish the hashes on our blockchain. So this is this is what we're using the blockchain for only as a notary service for all of these documents. As I mentioned in the physical world if if a paper document is going to have some kind of value someone has to sign it with wet ink. So what we do is that we actually add an electronic signature to our document so it can be any type of electronic signature we can accept anything. We just add it to the document and then we hash it again. Therefore we have a document that is readable by man and machine machine with an actual electronic signature incorporated into the document. The way we make sure that you can actually prove possession, and you can actually prove that you're in control of the one original. We also work with cryptographic key pairs. So once a document is created a public key and a private key is issued. And the public key goes into the document and it's also published on the blockchain. So this means that the only one that can actually do something with the document is the one that is in possession of the private key that corresponds to the public key. This also means that you can transfer possession. So if I want to transfer an original document from from me to Andrea for instance. The only thing Andrea needs to do is to create a cryptographic key pair and he can share the public key with me. So when I write the public key in the document and that gets published on the blockchain, I lose control over the original. Now Andrea has to control because he's in possession of the private key that corresponds to the public key that's published on the blockchain and it's written in the document. So it's harder for him to start to continue sort of managing and dealing with the document I have to send him the actual latest version of the document. All of this also means that we are not sort of dealing with tokens or anything like that so we're dealing with we're actually creating documents that are sort of the actual asset. This also means that you can sort of use our documents and you can share them and send them and and do whatever you want with them. So you can do everything that you do today but you can do it digitally. And the only thing we use the blockchain for as I mentioned is is we use it as it as a notary service. Our solution is also free in the sense that the only one that sort of needs to have anything to do with us is actually the one who wants to create an original. And it's the same thing as if you want to create a paper document you need to buy a piece of paper you really need the piece of paper, otherwise it's hard. The one who wants to create a digital original document without technology they have to come to us to buy the digital paper, but once they've done that they can, they can write anything on it, and they can send it to anyone. And any new holder or receiver can can receive the document and can send it on to yet another new owner without having to pay anything or do anything apart from. They need to have a computer and they need access to the internet and every time they need they want to do operations to the document they need to make sure that the blockchain is updated or the notary services update to evidence whatever has happened to that particular document. And we compare ourselves with other solutions, as I mentioned and we compare ourselves from from a control of ownership point of view, and security in integrity point of view. We, we, we outperform everyone else, because we are. Our documents are really safe they're really secure and you can 100% prove ownership. That's not necessarily the case for paper original documents. And as I mentioned you can make really, really good PDFs really safe and secure, but it's very hard to distinguish an original from a copy and scanned paper originals we shouldn't talk about them because we shouldn't be using them at all. I would also say in this context that you can actually create our original documents as PDFs, if you if you want to, and that makes them sort of very easy to handle and easy to understand and easy to read and everything else. Okay, so as Andrea said back to the basic a document it's a really, really good standard and it's a good basic standard for for starting. So how can this be used. This is, this is a very, very busy slide I know this, but I really like it a lot because it really calls out. What you can do with it with the digital document that is sort of constructed in the way we we've done it. On the on the upper hand of this slide. We have sort of a very schematic overview of how trade finance works today. And the key thing in the gray area and the key thing is that sort of there are there are very, very many players and parties involved in the trade. You have the importer and the exporter the banks to freight forward as the shippers the customers and everything everyone else. All of them are using their own sort of software, their ERP system or back office or platforms or portals or anything so every one of them are sort of handling and managing the digital data within their own software systems and when they want to communicate with other parties in the transaction sort of the common denominator and the common standard is actually the physical documents or when they want to to sort of exchange data and do things they use physical documents. And in some parts they can actually exchange data between themselves but if you if you look at the overall participant in trade it's still sort of the paper document that that is used and for good reasons because it's a good standard. Everyone knows what it is. Everyone can recognize it and everything else. The common approach these days is really to try to have everyone going on to the same platform to start interchanging data and you know there are a lot of initiatives. There is a lot of ongoing, especially in the blockchain space that they're trying to build platforms where all the parties can exchange data on the platforms to make sort of this whole process seamless and efficient. And we're not saying that that that that is a bad idea it's a really good idea but it's very very hard to make it work because you need to onboard everyone. And you need to deal with all the data privacy and actual access control issues because someone has to manage all of these. It's very lengthy. Often very costly and you need to transform you need to change your current processes and the way you're done you're doing things and you need to be able sort of to share your data. So what we are saying is that why not look at the documents and make the documents really digital and really safe and really secure, because then you will not have sort of onboarding at all because everyone can sort of receive them and store them. You don't need to change your processes you don't need to change your back office systems. You don't need to do anything except for sort of digitizing or accepting a digital document instead of today a paper document. And if we move into the bank space obviously this is this is really really convenient because now you can perform sort of collections or documents under a letter of credit and and you can do them fully digital. The whole sets, and you can send them and interchange them with the current sort of methods that you use basically sort of you can send them and receive them. So there is no there is no issue with that sort of everything is already in place you have the file act it's just to attach a document and exchange the keys and and and then you can actually exchange the real documents the original documents and no need for dealing with copies or sort of having DHL or FedEx to to to send the the original documents. As a parallel process you can you can discontinue that all together. Also a few words just just getting back so I want sort of demo the whole system now because it would. But it's not that complicated and as I said, sort of the generic process is really that someone creates the document someone signs it and then it's getting sort of sold or handed off to new party. So what this sort of picture represent are sort of the generic steps of first of all someone has to create the document it's not very complicated. Then someone has to sign it. And then once that is done the sort of the creator and the owner can can choose to own the document throughout this lifetime. But if they wish or if they sort of on sell it it can it can be sold to a new owner and then managed throughout this lifetime. Also, I should say that we are working very very closely with International Trade and Forfeiting Association. And if you are really curious on how to use our digital documents in in a real case. I suggest that you study how you can you can use trace original documents for creating and managing digital negotiable instruments and and it but they've been very sort of thorough in this work so so they have also issued a manual around how you can do this. So just to summarize and do sort of a little bit of sales pitch. We think that our trace original documents are really good because it's very it's easy to increase revenues because you can you can actually introduce a new way of going digital. More importantly, so it's really really good for efficiencies because you won't have sort of the dual and scan paper process. You can get rid of that and you can have one process. Needless to say turnaround times will be much quicker and easier because, as I said the documents are created digitally they are signed digitally and they are transferred and managed digitally. They are as as you probably all figured out they are 100% machine readable so they can be machine readable with any type of AI you have out there, much better than just doing OCR. And obviously you will have very very shortly times and everything else. When we talk about risks, since you have very very little implementation risk because you're not sort of onboarding something completely new you are just instead of pressing print on paper. You just decide to print them digitally you have so you have very very low implementation implementation risk. Also they the documents in themselves they are completely fraud safe because if someone tries to manipulate them or change them it will be detected by by the hashes immediately. No double data management, as I said, which is really really a good way of lowering your operational risk I would assume that there are a lot of banks out there these days that have a huge problem with dual data one. Data sets sitting on physical documents and the other being sitting on scan copies and OCR then maybe you don't capture everything. So it's a very good of reducing operational risk. Also, if you're a bank obviously everything every single line every single digit is is actually available for compliance scan so you won't have any mismatch in that. And the cost, then of course, you have, if you want to use our technology, sort of the one creating the original has to pay us a small fee to get the digital document. But otherwise there is, you can sort of get rid of your courier cost your archiving cost your scanning and your handling of paper originals you can get rid of all of that. So, I think I stopped there and open up for questions and discussions. Do you want to add anything large. I think you pretty much said it all to me. I tried to. I think it was a good one thank you gonna was really interesting I mean it was a confirmation of what we have discussed you know earlier on the former weeks. So I'll leave it on to the attendance to ask some questions I see some somebody who could be interested in making questions. Yeah, this is that in from Singapore. Let me start by asking, can just about anyone receive the document. And if no, what might a potential recipient need to do in order to be able to receive such a document. You want to do you want to answer that one last. The document has a header page, which explains what you are because in most countries where you will if you want to transact electronically you have to accept this. And what you are you are. And what you do is you go to trace reason calm which is a web page. And on the web page you can start by verifying that the the copy that you obviously want to review before you buy it is authenticate or authentic and you can verify that. And that you want to buy this the security what you do is that you you go to the next phase where you manage the document and you and you create a cryptographic key pair and you send the cryptographic key pair to the to the seller of the document. And the seller will will insert the public key just like gonna said. And will, and he will send you the document and at that point you are in full control of it. And on the manage functioning on the web page you make you can make additions you can invite someone to sign the document if you want to amend something. Basically you can add to any type of text to the document. It is like paper. But it's digital. I see. So, so that means that a potential recipient of the document needs to like subscribe to the service. No, the the the blockchain is a semi public. Which means that the only ones who have to subscribe are those who are creating documents, but once it's created it's freely transferable. And in trade. Honestly, you actually if you trade the documents oil or or or commodities or anything else you you don't know who's going to be exposed to the document and and who might want to own it. So the bank want to have the document as collateral, etc. So the notion of having a freely transferable document is really it's been a driving force for us. And we don't have a contract with those out there we only have a contract with those who are by digital paper from us. For a banker liquidity is that's work. So to increase as much liquidity in in the asset as possible, if it's a prom note or a bill of exchange is really core. So that's why the, you don't need to have a subscription to handle a created document that you have to have a subscription to create the document. Right. Thank you. Yeah, it's a bit challenging for me to visualize how a recipient of the document would actually, you know receive that document and interact with it. So, so perhaps, you know, now or in a, you know, full up session, it'd be nice if that could be a demo of the recipient's actions to be able to receive a document. So now you're on mute. Yeah, so yes. I just want to talk a little bit because this is really, really key. I'm really happy about this question. So, two things. The only thing you need is you need a computer and you need access to the internet. Those are the only two things you actually need in order to be able to receive a trace original document. You also need to know what you are receiving, right. And first of all, as I mentioned, you can create a trace original document as a PDF, right, but you need to be aware that this is a special PDF where you need sort of the private key in order and the right version of the original in order to be able to write on it. But apart from that sort of, if I'm if I am new receiver of the document, first of all, I need to make sure that I have sort of the private key that corresponds to the document but otherwise I will just receive an email with the PDF attachment and that's it. This is the only thing I need to do. So it's not more complicated than that. But once I sort of receive the document, I need to be aware that I have actually received maybe a bill of exchange and if you receive a bill of exchange through the DHL, you know that you are receiving a physical and you need to know what to do with it. And the same thing goes for for for these documents. So if you receive a trace original asset, a bill of exchange, you need to know that this is a bill and a digital bill of exchange and I need to take as much care of it, as I do with the physical one, or if it's a bill of exchange or something else. So, so from a mindset point of view, you need to be careful and you need sort of to manage it properly the same way as you manage a paper document. These are documents of value, usually with value. Yes. So same thing as paper. Yeah. Andrea you have to manage us, but but while you are doing that, I would just like to add one other thing. I enjoyed the previous session you had with. Sorry. No, so I just wanted to add because I really enjoyed the previous session we had you had with Buffed on the digital led your payment commitment. Yeah, we had it on the 10th of February. Yes. It was a good one. Yeah, and we love Buffed too much and we think they've done sort of a tremendous job in crafting how to set up these payment commitments on. Absolutely. Absolutely good. Are you perfectly right. They've done an awesome job. Actually, and potentially they have created something that could not replace as a whole. So what I wanted to say is that we also worked with Buffed and we're going to issue a white paper now where we say that not only can you use these 13 data points and manage them on a blockchain, you can also put them into a trace original document. That's nice. I mean, it's good to hear that. I mean, it's a step forward. I mean, as I was telling you, it's a good one. It's a nice children. I look for the white paper of course to really carefully. It's a good one. We're in contact. We will hopefully we'll be back, you know, you know, with some more news from Buffed shortly after this meeting. There's quite a lot to be done on that side of the world as well, you know, because Buffed is deeply steeped into the Americas so we'll be back I think with the people of Buffed soon. Thanks Phil for this note. I would love to ask if the reason anybody else would like to make questions to Guna and to Lars as well. It's a good chance to go deeper into this, you know. Yeah, guys, just a question from me so hi. Hey mate, how are you. Fine. Thank you. Good. Good. Thank you for sharing. Question from my side was in the event of a dispute where these documents are used in the transaction. What's the thought of the country where the dispute happens and their recognition of digital contracts versus paper as how does that feature in some of your travels. Should I. Yes, of course you should. There's a lot happening right now in in in digital legislation. Within the EU. We have something called a does the regulation for digital identity and trust services, which states that basically states technology neutrality within EU. Within EU. We have a reasonably it the legislatures are pointing towards digitization as long as you cater for the safety mechanisms mechanisms of a physical document. So if you can replicate all the face safe safety mechanisms that are surrounded on a bill of negotiable or a document to title. It should be a legal evaluate documents, specifically if you use qualified signatures. Latin America most a lot of Latin American countries have had the European legislation as inspiration, and they are looking very much the same as the European legislation. Singapore, for instance, having common law has been in the forefront and is about to change the, the legislation so that it, it doesn't have to be tangible that digital negotiables and and documents of title will be allowed. The same process is going on in in the UK with the law commission. So this is happening if you if you look on New York and Illinois in the United States, their signature or electronic transaction acts. They actually open up for digital negotiables. So, this is happening right now. And countries countries are working on getting a technology neutral legislation around digital asset digital assets. Great. Thank you. Yes, it's your genius here. I just want to share a suggestion and, and I ask you at the same time a clarification. Okay. First of all, I really love a major solution. It's really like Andrea said, getting getting back to the basics to understand that we really need a flexible solution to, to support the digitalization of the industry overall. From the bigger player to the smaller ones. I actually asking you. I mean, at least from my perspective and my understanding. Okay. I'm trying to picture in the process of a role of the original creation. I understand that the main process is related to the creation of these original document. And in the act of transferring this document, the database of service that is applying as a notarization services. Okay, for for the transfer. I just want to share my vision. I mean, you, Gunnar said that you're not dealing with tokens. In my perspective, I think that when you use a DLT base service to notarize and to create a unique value by harsh encryption. You want that is going to be defined as a unique value. You are managing a digital assets that basically entitles you to transfer rights. So from a regulatory perspective, I think that this can be defined as a unity token. If you in the act of transferring. Okay, but I mean, this is just my suggestion that they want. I want to share it. To be frank, I mean what what you do to identify you as the current holder is that you have you present the original, the latest copy of the original or the original and the corresponding key. And you, you can verify that without the ledger. If you want to. That's not necessary. The only thing is that you will not be sure that you actually have the latest version of the document, because if someone would have an older cryptographic key and and an older version. That would actually apply for or it would verify that without the document where without without the ledger as a valid copy of that version. So what why the ledger is so important is that we keep, we kept keep track of the latest version of the document, the latest version of the original. That's the main function of the of the blockchain. But in order to be able to write on the blockchain you actually needed the credentials the correct document and the correct key. Sure. But at the end of the day, we, I think that we sometimes going to end up in semantics rather than in functionality. And it's just my suggestion I mean from from consumer I mean for client perspective. I think that this is quite more similar optimization process of a digitized document once the original is transferred by a DLT notary service. It's just my but just my vision. You have to take care. I mean, it's very thin line in my opinion. It's just a matter of proving the originality of the documents, maybe you're missing a little points in the loop of documentary collection. And at the end that last was saying, you know, they were referring to documents of titles and negotiable documents. We don't have that space here in the meeting to to go deeper into this but it's, you know, there are three funds specialist in meeting today that could detail how this works, you know, when you have to deal with documentary collections. There's a good distinction between documents of title and negotiable instruments. It is, and sometimes I also think about this, you know, are they tokens or not, but in my vision. Your focus is more on the side of proving the originality of the documents the rise change in a digital environments, rather than creating tokens to be exchanged on on DLT. I think that what we've been focusing on is recreating the safety mechanisms. What goes on in physical space large and to enhance maybe keeping the same level of security and safeness. And I believe that if we want to digitize trade and in finance and other transactions that are very of great value. We need to comply with current legislation. It will take years and years and years if we're going to if every type of legislation should kind of be adopted to technology. I think it's a smoother path to adopt the technology to legislation. I agree with you last. Absolutely. The problem is, especially in trade is the legislation is not homogeneous you know you mentioned the Singapore has it some way to go. South America is following the same of the European legislation. So to deal with trade of course being on the global scale is somehow a little messy, and it can take time as well. Although we take this approach. But a couple of years ago, 20 years ago, you could not use a European mobile phone in the Americas. Now you can. Now you can. And what we what we, I think what we need to realize is that we cannot change the world, trying to monopolize things what we need. We have to have we need to collaborate. We need to be open. We need to accept that that some utilities that are presented and solutions are fantastic on some things. And our technology is good on on one thing. And that's recreating the document. Yeah, but I mean, that was my first statement and saying, saying, okay, I really like the technology and I understand the value into the core. Okay, that is having a software flexible in a flexible way that can work on different solutions that are in the market and digitized in a flexible and harmonizing way. I want to just to share my vision into the process of a role and see that maybe, according to my understanding from regulatory perspective when there is a transfer and digital asset in there, there's, I think you can do that. Yes, we like your vision. And you just just wanted to let you know. Can I just can I just answer a question that came on the on the chat from Bob. Yeah, I was just about to mention this but you can go. But because I think it's a good question. Yeah, and just to take a step back so our business model is is based on the fact that the only one that has to deal sort of directly with us from a customer perspective is the one who wants to create the original document so they need to buy, if you wish, the digital paper from us. We don't see we don't care we don't have anything to do sort of with the content. But, but if, if I want to create the digital original, I go to trace read I go to an ego and I sign up for for trace regional.com and then I can take any, any data and I can create my document I can write it from scratch I can do drag and drop I can start with a PDF, and I can create the trace original document. Once that is done, the document is, is can be managed and stored and received by anyone free of charge right so anyone can receive it anyone in in an email through swift in any medium. You can deal with it and you can handle it. As I also as I mentioned what you need you need a computer and you need access to the internet so if you want to update your original documents you need to go to our website to get in contact with the notary service. And you change your document and you get it notarized and then you can continue sort of sending it to to someone else or a new entity but that there are no strings attached there is no fees there is nothing. So I just wanted to make that 100% clear. One other thing Andrea that I just briefly want to mention, if you're really seen if you really want to test this and sort of you're a bit hesitant to around sort of legislation and everything else. So it's a really convenient because you can you can create your own little club in the document. So through it for there is a very, very nice solution called the electronic payment undertaking with wording everything. So you want to to create sort of a legally valid look alike of a bill of exchange, but you do it on the contract law between the parties. You have all the, all the instructions you need in order to to get started. Yes, we, we have a presentation is insightful presentation at the end of the year 2020 by Joel, and I still think Joel fall for that. So it is a very, it is actually a very interesting instrument for enhancing digitalization trade fines indeed. So anybody else would love to make more questions I mean. It's a very simple question from me again. How quickly are you able to on board a new user to issue a digital original. It depends on how how much the user wants to integrate to their current systems. If if you're, if you're a user of China systems for instance I think you could do it really rapidly. If you have an in house system you probably need to need to look at your workflows etc but just implementing our solution, you could do that by using Amazon Web Services, etc. So it's, it's not a huge implementation. Let's say that you have. No, it's a quick implementation. Everything is ready. You just need a node, you come to us we set you up it will take sort of a couple of days, and then you can you can use our graphical user interface which is really really easy to use and easy to understand so not very complicated at all. But if you're already have sort of a finaster a China system customer you can go to them and they will set you up immediately. Anybody else Julian. Are you there. Yes, I am. That was I have no I think we've reached the end of the hour I think that was a great. Thank you very much. Very insightful. Thank you. Very nice presentation thanks you go on and thanks, large for today's meeting. And I think we we can call the end of the meeting and thanks everybody for for being here. We'll see again in two weeks time on a different time slot. Okay, and more insights into this. So have a very nice day you your. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Bye bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.