 everybody and welcome to our event on international spillover effects. My name is Emily Johnston and I'm really happy to be here as your host and moderator for the next hour together. In a globalised and interconnected world, the actions of one country can have positive or negative effects on the ability of other countries to reach the Sustainable Development Goals or SDGs. And these spillover effects really exemplify the urgency for global responsibility and partnership as well as for coherent and integrated international policies. So today we're going to be exploring the latest research on spillover data and policies in the context of the SDGs with leading experts and researchers from the SDSN and the OECD. Our event today is hosted by the Sustainable Development Solutions Network or SDSN for short and the Deutsche Gesellschaft internationalesumarbeit or GIZ and is commissioned by the German Federal Ministry for the Economic Cooperation and Development or BMZ. Now, as you're listening to me, please note that you can't connect with your camera and your microphone right now, but we would really love to hear from you as we go through the event and later on we'll ask some of your questions to our speakers as well. So if you want to participate, go to the right side where you'll see the place where you can ask questions next to the chat tab. And once there's a question there, if you really like the question, you can also vote it up and that will make it more likely for us to check as well. And of course, if you have any tech issues, please go to the tech support channel and you'll also find a number where you can call or you can write questions there as well. But hopefully everything will be smooth for you and you'll enjoy our event and there'll also be a chance to network afterwards as well. Now, to open our event, I want to invite Dr. Ingoth Dietrich, the Commissioner for the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development at BNZ, to the stage to share a few opening words with you. Welcome, Dr. Dietrich. Thank you very much, moderator, dear colleagues, dear audience. It is really a great pleasure for me having the opportunity to say a few introductiony words on behalf of BNZ. Like already mentioned, the Federal Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development. The concept of sustainable development expressed through the 2030 Agenda and the 17 Sustainable Development Goals is the guiding framework of our ministry's work and of the German government in general. The overarching goal of the 2030 Agenda is to create a better, more equal and sustainable future for everyone. Its successful implementation is a global project. As such, it is only possible through international cooperation and common sense of responsibility. Our global responsibilities are especially reflected in the latest BNZ's four focal areas, as there are poverty and hunger, especially against the background of the Russian aggression against Ukraine. Sustainable food supply chains and global food security must be prioritized. Second, there is a just transition in the context of transforming to climate neutrality. And third, the one overarching goal is our feminist development policy and last but not least, COVID recovery. But today we are here. We are deep diving into a topic that is especially essential when we discuss global responsibilities, international spillover effects. Within the last years, research on international spillover effects has become increasingly important. It is an effective tool for the measurement and monitoring of the responsibility and cooperation between states. Let me explain why in the past years, German politics has increasingly taken spillovers into account and continues to do so. SDG monitoring generally looks good for countries in the global north, as they are passing many difficult problems on to countries of the global south. This suspect is not a small statistical detail, but a weak point and does not always reflect our reality, since essential facts are missing or are not considered at all. Fortunately, and thanks to the excellent work of our partners here, there is the effective tool of spillover analysis by analyzing the effects of demand and consumption in the global north on the global south. Spillover analysis can give us a much clearer picture of reality when using it to complement or even better to integrate spillover effects into the conventional SDG ratings. Often focusing on environmental and socio-economic processes, such scientific research can help to outline the direct impacts of unsustainable actions upon other countries. These negative impacts can be greenhouse gas emissions, can be unsustainable ways of production or poor labor standards in countries of the global south. Only if negative spillovers across countries are being monitored and considered carefully in all their dimensions, adequate measures can be taken and the visionary promise of the 2030 agenda can be fulfilled. Measuring spillover effects is an effective tool in the SDG implementation and it has become essential for making informed policy decisions concerning resource allocation and priority setting. BMSET has been partnering with SDSN, the Sustainable Development Solutions Network, since 2013 to strengthen the role of scientific science and policymaking in general and on the topic of spillover effects in particular. With that in mind, I would like once again to thank GIZ and SDSN for their work, painting a clear and comprehensive picture of reality. Show us the immense challenge that Liar had. That's why we at BMSET are happy to support both GIZ and SDSN in fostering and further developing the research on spillover effects. I look forward on this online event as one more example of our good cooperation. To all the participants of today's event, I wish inspiring and new insights into this very important field of research. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Dr. Dietrich, for opening the event for us and we are also really looking forward to see what we're going to learn over the next hour together. Now, before we get to meet our speakers and to dive a bit deeper into these topics, we would actually love to hear from you, our audience, because we're really curious where you're joining us from and how much you already know about spillover effects. And so to do this, we're going to share a Mentimeter survey with you in the chat. And you'll also see the code up on the screen now. And there we have two questions for you. The first one, you can place yourself on the world map from wherever you're joining from. We know it's not so easy to get it exact because it's a little small, but do your best and we'll get a sense of where we're joining from. And then to let us know how much you already know about spillover effects. And in just a moment, we will bring it up and have a look at the results together. Okay. Seeing the results coming in. So we've definitely got quite a cluster in different parts of Europe. But not only we're also joined by some friends from different parts across Africa, India, Southeast Asia, even South America and North America. So we're quite an international crowd here today and we've still got the results coming in. So welcome to you wherever you are joining from around the world. Really great to see. So for sure we can see the biggest clusters in the general Europe, Europe area today. Okay, so now we've had a quick look at the distribution where we're coming from. We'd love to see where you're at in terms of your existing knowledge about spillover effects. And for this, we'll go to the next question. And you can write yourself from if you've never heard of them before, to you're already an expert and anything in between. I don't overthink it either. Let's have a look. So the results are coming in. We are somewhere in the middle overall. We have a couple of experts in the room. There are some people who haven't heard of them before and that's totally okay as well. So we're hoping by the end of today, while the end of this time together, you'll have a bit more of a sense. But overall, we look like we're mostly on average in the middle with our knowledge. And that's fantastic, because we want you to go away with a better understanding not only about what they are, but also how it applies to your work. So thank you so much for checking in with me. It's great to get a sense of where you're at. And we're going to hear now from the first of our speakers. And so it's my great pleasure to introduce you to Salma Dahia and Zach Wenling, who are from the index team from Sustainable Development Solutions Network, SDSN to share with you about their work. Welcome Salma, welcome Zach, how are you both today? Hi, Emily, everything is fine. Thanks for the invitation. We're very happy to be here. Great to have you as well. Hello everyone. Thank you all for coming too. Thank you. And I will hand the floor to you now to share with us about your work. So take it away. Thanks. So today, we will be sharing with you a quick presentation before the questions with you. So I'm just going to share my screen and share our presentation. Is it okay? Because I cannot see at the same time. Is it okay? Yeah. Yeah, I can see it. Okay, great. So thanks for the invitation again. We're very happy to represent the Sustainable Development Solutions Network today. So I'm with Zach Wenling, my colleague, who's a Yale PhD and project manager at SDSN. And I'm Salma Dayir. And I work as an economist for SDSN as well. So here's a quick overview of our presentation today. So we're going to try to define and explain what are international spillover effects. We're going to see what does the latest data tell us about spillover effects. And then we're going to explore the different policy leverages we can pull for to tackle and address spillovers. So first of all, in order to understand what are international spillover effects, and why they are so important, let's look at this. So here we can see that the carbon footprint of the average inhabitant of the European Union is split between 60% of domestic impact, which is the day to day life emissions. And the spillover impact represent actually 40%. Which means that 40% of the carbon footprint in Europe is actually generated abroad to satisfy our consumption. So it's basically through our imports. Let's see now how we have been taking into spillovers in our work. So for a while now, we introduced this concept into our work, our flagship publication, the SDR, the Sustainable Development Solution, the Sustainable Data Development Report, which is the SDG Index, is the first ever publication trying to monitor and to track achievements of the SDGs internationally. We can distinguish here, different categories of spillover. First, the environmental and social spillovers embodied in trade. We can see, for example, that we have biodiversity threats embodied in imports, we have scarce water consumption embodied in imports. And here, we have international economic and financial flows. So these are different indicators, focusing on ODA, on tax havens. And finally, we have one indicator more focused on peacekeeping and security. So we also then had to focus. And with the partnership we have with GIZ and the University of Sydney, we could dive in into this first category, the environmental and social spillovers embodied in trade. For now, two articles, two studies. The first one focuses on textile supply chain, and the second one on food supply chain. So the first one, we actually measured social spillover, which are the fatal and non-fatal accidents at work. And for the food supply chain, we had more environmental spillovers taken into account here. So just a few words. So this work help us dig into a specific supply chain for a specific region where we could directly tie our results to an important political stakeholder. Here, it's the European Union. And so this first work, our results showed that imports of textile into EU are linked to 375 fatal work related accidents and 21,000 non-fatal accidents each world worldwide. For this second study, I can give you one number, a striking one, our results show that 46% of the agricultural land used to satisfy European consumption is located abroad. That means that 46% of the actual amount of land anywhere in the world that is needed to produce a food product for European markets are outside the continent. So this actually shows that there are some agricultural products that we know are imported by the by the EU that are known for to be associated with the forestation and in particular degradation of tropical forests. This implies that the EU demand also puts pressure on biodiversity, climate change, emissions from agriculture, forestry and other land use. So now I'm just going to give the floor to continue to my colleague Zach. Thank you, Salma. So I'm the project director for the Global Common Stewardship Index, one of the newest work streams we have at SDSN, which we're doing in collaboration with the Yale Center for Environmental Law and Policy, as well as our funders and collaborators at the Center for Global Commons at the University of Tokyo. Let's see maybe it's coming up on me to start. Okay, so yeah, so we want to go back one side. This is just a way of wrapping up all of our work on spillover indices and and combine them into a powerful way of summarizing the state of the world, not only how countries are impacting the global commons within their borders, but also through these very important international spillover relationships. So on the next side, we see kind of a depiction of how we match up with what the Center for Global Commons is doing. As far as thinking carefully about what are the domains of the global commons, the shared resources of the earth that help to support our way of life and the flourishing and promotion of human wellbeing. And we're tracking six different categories of the of the flows of the impacts that we're having on those global commons that originate within countries in ways that are not only important in direct impacts, but also those impacts that are embedded in the trade of goods and services. So the next slide, we can say that the global common stewardship index is then comprised of two major pillars, that domestic pillar that gives a country an idea of what's going on within their own borders, and then the spillover pillar, where we'd layer on top of that, as you saw the slide somewhat discussed about the European carbon footprints, what is happening through what you're importing. So giving you a broader picture of what you're actually doing within your in your borders, that is having impact outside of them. And then this is really relying on the tools from industrial ecology, where if we have some kind of product like a tire, attached to that tire, or the impacts we're having in Thailand from the proper production. And also the impacts that are happening in Mexico, from the production of a tire, and finally, the impacts that are happening in the United States, from the final consumption of a tire. All of those are tracked across sectors, across countries, and massive input output tables that allow us to link the economic activity and trade globally to those environmental impacts, and, you know, produce these spillover metrics. So the next slide. We have four objectives with the global common stewardship dex. The first is simply to raise awareness and draw attention to the shared resources as a global concern, not just as individual atomized concerns within each country. Our second is to identify global trends and priorities for understanding what needs to be tracked, how to impact policy agendas, and drive action to actually address the underlying problems here. Third, that means not only motivating better national policies, but also driving down to subnational and civil society, non-state actors as well, as well as developing multilateral frameworks for interestingness at an international global level as well. And fourth, we also want to highlight and close data gaps. Parts of our understanding of these global commons and the international spillovers that are impacting them, for which we don't have good data systems yet, but which could be powerful tools for accelerating progress and achieving sustainability goals. So we can, you know, you can go to the report to kind of see how countries are doing. But generally what we are trying to highlight is the contrast between what you would find if you looked only domestically at how countries are doing versus what is happening with them as far as achieving or mitigating impacts through their spillovers as well. So in lots of countries here, you can see in the domestic pillar, they're not doing so well, or they're doing very well in the domestic sphere. But once you contrast that with the spillover pillar, you're seeing that, you know, maybe some countries are exporting their dirty work, especially to the developing world. On the next slide, you can show you just one example. From Germany, we have 100 different country profiles that you can look through and understand, richly with the data and also kind of visually. What are they doing? domestic versus spillover in each of the sub pillars as well, as well as their trajectory, whether or not they're headed towards a good achievement, or mitigation of their impacts, or if they're regressing, if they're falling away from international targets, and really failing to address where these spillovers are headed. So this is, we hope, going to be a powerful tool that puts more information to the hands of decision makers and a broader suite of stakeholders to help them to hold people, governments, actors, different sectors of the economy accountable, and really drive better action, better policy, these better ways of addressing the global commons and their spillover impacts to the environment. And with that, I'll turn it back to Asalma to talk about some of those policy insights. Sorry, I'm reactivating my mic. So first, I'm going to talk about four messages from our result of the DCSI 2021. First one is that major transformations are urgently needed because no country obtains a perfect score in proportional or absolute terms in this year's DCSI. Based on the extrapolation of annual growth rates over the past five years, the pace of progress is too slow, and no country is actually on track to achieve all the global commons towards ship index thresholds values by 2030 or 2050. Then we have the rich countries that drive most spillovers. So the five entities with the worst impacts are China, the United States, the European Union of 27 countries, Japan and India. 18 of the 20 top contributors are part of the G20 who bear a special responsibility for us in safeguarding the global commons as they represent two-thirds of the world's population and 85 percent of global GDP. And for us, these countries have to clean up their supply chains, both domestically, internationally, help and accompany a lot of developing countries also because most of these developed countries also bear historical responsibility in terms of climate change. And then there is an important urgency to decouple environmental impacts from development. So this is because the pace of the decline of CO2 emissions must accelerate to achieve net zero by 2050. And we think that there are still plenty of efforts needed, especially when we take into account the spillover impacts and not just the domestic one. And finally, there are also persistent data gaps and limitations in terms of the time that the time lag that we have in our data, and also in order to have the most granular, disaggregated data in terms of sector, in terms of country, but maybe in the future also region. Then I'm going to talk about the different policy levers we have to address the spillover issue. So first, there are plenty of tools that are domestic and have impact directly also on spillovers. So first, there's the public procurement. So everything that states central and local regional at any level consumes and invests. So in so here there are examples of countries that have a lot of requirements in terms of public procurement in order to minimize the spillover abroad. Then we have also the carbon border adjustment mechanism that was introduced by the French presidency of the European Council, which he tries to prevent carbon leakages from countries that don't have the same standards in terms of emissions and pollution. Then there is a third branch of domestic policies that are more focused on the companies, so corporate due diligence, which means that companies have to report to the state about their impacts both on the environment, but also human rights or social impacts. This coupled with sanctions and clear and transparent monitoring of these corporate behaviors can also help. Then there are all the international policies. We have the trade agreements negotiations, the existing one, the future ones where we can actually mainstream this notion of spillover. The technical cooperation and assistance through bodies like DIZ or USAID or other development or cooperation national agencies, but it can also be through international organizations. And this is very important, like we said, because we think that developing countries are the ones that actually have the most issues, challenges to overcome. And this can be possible with an international support. And it also includes financing mechanisms, like, for example, the STG bond that Benin has now. And these are mechanisms that are still very new, but are very interesting, interesting to follow. Then regarding data systems, we think that there is important investments in funding needed for trade data, for spillover data and also in terms of the time of the data that I said earlier, there are some gaps, not some gaps, but a lag. And it's very hard to have the most recent updated data for all countries at the same time. Open, of course, open data is very important for us. All our work and reports are open and are free to access. This means for this is for international organizations, but also national statistical offices all around the world. And finally, we have policy coherence that our colleague from OECD might explain more in detail, but this concept is very important because we actually need that spillovers be taken, that spillovers are taken into account both domestically, internationally, but also in every minister agency at every level of the government as well. So this is very important and mainstreaming spillover only in one side for us will not have the same impact as making a whole framework coherent. So thank you so much for your attention. We hope that you like this presentation and you can learn more about our work through our website, but also through our social media here. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Salma and Zak, for this really great overview and starting point into the topic. And we're going to keep you both here because we want to learn more about your work. And that's what we're going to do now. We're going to have a little interview with Zak and Salma. And also we're going to invite to the stage Karina Littback. Welcome, Karina. So thank you, Emily. And thank you for the invitation to both GIZ and the SDSN. I'm very happy to be here with you today. Fantastic to have you and for everybody who's just meeting you, Karina is a policy advisor in the policy coherence for sustainable development unit of the OECD directorate for public governance, where she supports the work on institutional and governance mechanisms for policy coherence and integrated approaches to the SDG implementation. Now, to everybody who's listening to us, I have some questions for these people already and you might as well. So you're most welcome to share them in the chat and we'll see how far we get through the questions that we've prepared and if we have time, we'd love to bring in your questions too. And they'll also be the chance to continue discussing your burning questions and insights afterwards in the networking session as well. OK, but let's get started. So Karina, we'd love to hear first from you and maybe you can tell us a bit about the focus of your working group at the moment and we know that you published a report last year. So we'd love to hear a bit about that as well. Thank you, Emily. Perhaps I will start with the report that we published last year. This was actually a collaborative effort between the OECD and the Joint Research Centre of the European Commission. And the purpose of this report was that it brought together country experiences and governance tools for limiting transboundary effects with different analytical tools that are being developed by researchers around the world. And one of the chapters did highlight was co-drafted by second, his colleagues about the Global Stewardship Index. We wanted to we wanted to help policymakers with this report to understand, anticipate and address these spillovers of their domestic policies and to give them sort of a toolbox for action. And in this regard, the focus of the work that that I do at the OECD and that we do together with the national focal points on policy coherence focuses very much on the use of governance mechanisms and tools. We heard Salma mention public procurement, for example, and there are there are many more. So we help governments to build institutional capacities to address such spillovers. And just to mention a few examples, we've been working with Italy to launch a national action plan on policy coherence, whereby they are using different kind of coherence matrix matrices to insert this consideration into policymaking. In Luxembourg, they are launching next week a sustainability check, which is a regulatory impact assessment tool that will include considerations of transpoundary impacts. And in addition, we support individual civil servants with capacity building. And we're doing this in a project with Poland at the moment, where we are looking at the knowledge and skills needed to address such interactions and spillovers. So that's some of the few things that we are doing. And I'd be happy to elaborate on any of them as we move along with the questions. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you so much, Karina. And we definitely would love to hear more as well as we go along. Thanks also for sharing these concrete examples. It's really inspiring to hear. I want to circle back, though, first to what we've just been learning about measuring and monitoring international spillovers and to hear a little bit more about some of the main challenges that are faced. And not only the challenges, but what steps can be taken in the near future to improve and further develop research and to implement its results more effectively. Zach, I see you are unmuted. Would you like to go ahead? No, that's a great question, Emily, and something that I think is very urgent. Of course, for our research, we have identified maybe four major priorities that should be on the global research agenda, monitoring environmental impacts, especially what is that we do need more comprehensive and timely data to assess the impacts that are embodied in international supply chains. And that applies to not only the scientific data about the impact we're seeing in the environment, but also data about global trade goods and services. So anything we can do to support and really enhance the abilities of countries across the world of reporting either of those priorities, things about greenhouse gas emissions, but also about what's being traded across borders. Getting that into global systems really helps us to accelerate our research. The second would be to looking at more granular assessments of the impacts embodied in just specific supply chains. So as all said, we do have work streams that we're doing with University of the City looking at textiles and food supply to the EU, but broadening out to look at different kinds of commodities, different kinds of economic sectors and applying that to supply chains and regions really help us to open up new insights that will be very actionable for addressing sustainability challenges. We also support to look at policies themselves and tracking which kinds of countries are implementing incorporating spillovers into their national frameworks, really understanding how they're related to sustainability. And then finally, what we are also kind of interested in is not just the things that are embedded in global trade it goes in service, but also trains boundary migration to physical pollutants, mostly through air and water, where we know that the emissions that are being done in one country can travel downstream or down wind and other countries in effect their quality of life as well. So I think we can push forward on those four fronts we think is very important and that requires a lot of international cooperation in countries stopping up to really understand how to support global systems. That will give us a bit of a need. Thank you, Zach. We're having a little bit of trouble hearing you. I think you have a bit of internet connection issue, but I hope that we got the main key words out of what you shared. And I think that we did, but I might hand over to some of you want to build on it. And I have another question for you as well. And that is as you shared the spillover ranking of the countries really presents a very different depiction of the reality of sustainability and international cooperation than a pure focus on SDG ranking. And I'd love to hear from you. What do you see as the main implications of this shift in perspective and how both realities can be more synchronized into one coherent perspective on national sustainability policies? Thanks, Emily, for this question. So SDG ranking is very important because it takes into account social economic as well as climate change and biodiversity issues. So the SDGs, as we know, are all interlinked and in the last sustainable development reports, like editions before, we include spillover indicators like imported GHG emissions. However, most indicators in the SDG ranking are more national because social and economic issues, unlike the environments, are more national issues than international challenges in most cases. The GCS index only focuses on environmental indicators. Therefore, it has a perspective that is more international, where every indicators can every indicator, sorry, or most indicators can be measured both domestically and also abroad. The SDR actually helps the sustained the SDG ranking helps to grasp how national complex, national contexts, sorry, are complex. That is why the European Sustainable Development Report has a different set of indicators aligned more with the European context. This said, the GCS index by isolating the environmental issue, sheds perspective on the specificities of the challenge internationally. First, the global comments are shared, de facto by all by all nations. Second, there are different profiles like Zach showed us. Some countries have major negative impacts domestically, but without impacting other countries for others, it's the opposite. So the European Union footprint in terms of spillover impacts is 40%, as I said, but the Japanese one is higher. The Ethiopian one is lower. So when we see all of that, we know that there to address spillover, a country has multiple policy options, but trade policy is key to achieve progress solutions. And for all these reasons, we really think that there is no perfect way to present one coherent framework since the policy tools are national, sometimes regional, bilateral, multilateral. And our role as as DSN is to try to model this complex reality by creating a narrative that will be of interest for decision makers at different levels, civil society, private sector, academia. So we think that it's very, very strategic to cut off parts of this reality in order to have a digestible message for a target audience and effective policy answer. Thank you. Thanks so much, Salma. And we have a question from the audience related to the research side of things, and then we're going to move more into policy. And I want to hear more from Karina as well, but just to first stay here. So the question is, it seems that spillover effects are mainly focused in research on environmental and economic impacts. What about social impacts, knowing that the impacts are interconnected? And perhaps you would like to briefly respond to this. You just say, well, we do have some more small work streams coming up, especially looking at slavery and have also been working with colleagues at University of Sydney, looking at labor practices in the past. So there are, you know, non environmental, non economic as to the extent that those could be separated impacts that are being studied by spillover experts out there and should be incorporated into work streams soon. Salma, I don't know if you have anything to add about other kinds of social impacts that are also out there, but we will be publishing on that shortly. Yeah, we will we will release a study in November on modern slavery enforced labor into in the mineral supply chains that satisfy European consumption. And as I said before in my presentation, we already did some work on fatal and non fatal accidents in the textile supply chain also for European consumption. So let's check that. Wonderful. Thank you so much. OK, Corina, let's move to you and I would love to ask you what are some of the institutional mechanisms that can contribute to reducing negative spillovers? Thank you. That's a good question. And in fact, with our work on policy coherence, we've identified three different categories of institutional mechanisms that government can put in place to strengthen policy coherence and address these these spillover effects. And first we have the pillar and political commitment vision leadership. And here we see that some countries are using their political commitment to the SDGs overall to make explicit references to transboundary impacts. And this is the case in Sweden, for example, where where this task has been integrated into each action plan that all ministries or agencies have put in place. The second pillar that we call that we refer to as part of our work on policy coherence relates to coordination mechanisms to address policy impacts and interactions. And here we see different institutional mechanisms being used. For example, international regulatory cooperation provides a concrete tool for coordinating between countries because it helps to ensure the resilience between these value chains that we've heard about and to to ensure the interoperability between services in different countries. And we also see mechanisms for stakeholder engagement with with all stakeholders, but in particularly business and the need for responsible business conduct standards that can help companies to operationalize the SDGs and ensure or limit the negative impacts of their business in other countries. And the third pillar we have relates to assessing and measuring progress on policy coherence. And this is probably the most challenging aspect of limiting spill overs and transboundary impacts. And here I mentioned already that we see in many countries they introduce regulatory impact assessments, both both ex ante and ex post to build in some of the considerations of such effects. And similarly, we see countries align their monitoring and reporting systems with the SDGs and expand these to include indicators of the externalities, be they be they social, economic or environmental. So yes, I'll stop here, but those are some of the examples that countries are using in this work. That's fantastic and great examples. And I'd love to stay with you with a follow up question, which is in these times of political conflict and international division that we are facing, what can the spill over effects teach us about the importance of coordinated and considerate relations between countries? And connected to this, we have a question from the audience, which was how would politics change if spill over effects were considered more? So two different questions, but touching on the topics of politics and happy to hear your thoughts. OK, I think I think the current tensions, both or recovery from COVID and also the geopolitical situation, of course, with the Russia's invasion of Ukraine show that that this is more important than ever. Because we see now with with the ongoing war that that it risks distracting attention from global agendas that are interconnected, such as the SDGs, climate change, sustainable ocean management and and much more. And perhaps gearing them instead towards domestic and security interests. And we're also seeing that the war has disrupted global supply chains, which are still in disarray from the pandemic. This relates to platinum, aluminium, but also sunflower oil and, of course, agricultural products, where we have seen a big impact on food security globally. Because Ukraine, I think, ranks first in Europe in terms of arable land and has 25 percent of the total volume of black soil. So and together, Ukraine and Russia accounts for more than a third, I think, of the world's wheat. So of course, this has impacts on other countries in particular in Africa and prices have gone up as a consequence of this. And also, I think, in terms of politics, the crisis has shown that the global agenda is not a monolith in itself. And this is challenging for policymakers and indeed politicians, because it's difficult to address these issues coherently. And I know we have we have a resource at the OCD, a compendium of international organizations practices, which highlights this complexity, where the landscape of international rulemaking standards includes, I think, over 70,000 different international instruments with different terminologies and legal effects. So I think here that all governments will need to step up their capacities to to tackle these these global challenges and also international organizations can do their part to support them in this. In overall, I think, I think awareness racing to citizens would help also to turn the political agenda in the right direction. Many citizens are aware of the domestic impacts of their consumption, but perhaps less abroad. So awareness, racing and communication on those issues are important. Thanks so much, Karina. I think this is such an important point and something we hope to contribute to our event today with the awareness raising part as well. And of course, highlighting the complexity of these issues, which is highly, highly complex. The next question from our audience. Now, the simple question with a complex answer, how can we motivate rich countries to address spillover effects instead of not acting about it? And I'm happy to hear from anyone who would like to weigh in on this question. Salma. Yes. Like you said, simple question, complex answer. Well, there's a you. So I'm going to speak for the SDSN and our work and how we're trying to do this. So like Karina said, communication is very important. So through this event, but also through the media, we try to do this lobbying in terms of trying to just put this word and this concept in the place that we think it deserves. And also through our partnerships, we work with GIZ. We work with the European Commission. We work with different governments throughout the continents. And I think that there is no like simple answer on how to do this. But I think that making the issue more and more visible and having a strong narrative around it with, of course, the problem and why is it a problem, but also solutions out there that already exist. And like Karina's work, having these examples of best practices also can motivate, I think, countries to to take action. And that is also the purpose of our reports. So, yeah, I think that we're trying to do this in different in different ways. But it takes the whole the whole stakeholders. I mean, the different stakeholders. That's why our reports also have a large audience that we want to target. So, yeah, I don't know if I missed anything. Thanks. Thank you, Salma. No, I think this was a great answer and wonderful work that you're doing as well. Did you want to add something, Karina? I think perhaps one thing to add is I mean, much of our work that we do looks at the benefits of the policy coherence. But another another side of it to motivate politicians and policymakers is to also communicate about the costs of policy in coherence and to show that the impacts the impacts of their policies, even if those are in other countries in terms of carbon emissions, that comes back to themselves, of course, and incurs costs for when the global society has to deal with climate change. So to show that the whole system is interconnected and that there are costs involved by not dealing with these actions. Beautifully put and so important. We only have a few more minutes left together. And I've got one final question that I would love to hear everybody's thoughts on. And you've all touched a bit on what are important next steps, but I would love just to for us to wrap it up by sharing what, in your view, will be the most important steps to take in the near future. With regards to what spillover effects have shown us so far about the vulnerabilities in the systems of international cooperation and coordination. So what are your your next steps? And let's start with you, Zach, this time. Oh, what a great question. So I want to prioritize things. But I must accept the amount is accelerating sustainability throughout trends throughout supply chains by assistance and sharing of information, technological capabilities, expertise, building up human capital throughout supply chains. And that's going to be largely revolve around sharing the clean technologies and processes that have developed in the rich world, in transferring that to the developing world to make sure that their production processes are coming more in line with the best practices that are going to be able to support a high quality of life. So that's really kind of incumbent on the rich countries to stop up and provide more of that kind of aid. And that's an essential step in order to create supply chains. Thank you so much, Zach. And Salma, what about you? Yeah, well, I think we touched on so many solutions today, but maybe I will focus on the fact that I think I mean, we think that rich countries, G20 countries, because of their weight in terms of population, the size of their economy, but also their their presence on the diplomatic spheres are of need to lead and to impulse the way to changing central and local government consumption behaviors, as well as, like we said before, sanctioned companies and a company partner countries when any kind of spillover is detected. And maybe the most urgent things are, of course, monitoring and developing national consumption based indicators in order to have a clear idea of what's going on and maybe a clear path towards a cleaner supply chains. So, yeah, I would say this. Thank you. And you're absolutely right. We've had many different solutions today. And so I think it is important to prioritize not necessarily easy because it is such a complex topic that we're speaking of that. And I'm curious to hear from your perspective as well, Karina. Yes, thank you. I think, I mean, in this event, we're talking particularly about impacts and effects, which also suggests looking at these these issues at a later stage of the policy cycle. So I think the main point I would like to make is that this consideration of transboundary impacts needs to be built in throughout the whole policymaking process. So beginning with the planning and policy formulation stage through to implementation and coordination. And then, of course, the monitoring and assessment of these impacts. Another point would be the importance of both horizontal coherence between sectors and, of course, vertical coherence between local, national and global levels. And we will, as a very concrete next steps, I can I can let you know that next week we will continue these discussions in a different site event on 14th of July that we would be happy for people to tune into. So with that, I thank you very much and look forward to seeing you again. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Great to know where the next discussion will be happening. So thank you for telling us about that. Zach, Salma, Karina, thank you so much, not only for dedicating your your work time and your energy into these really important topics for the good of us all, but also sharing your time and energy today with us over the past hour. It's been so fascinating to hear about your work and the insights and especially the practical steps that we can take out of that. So I hope that everybody who is listening has been able to have some some takeaways, maybe some thoughts about what you can apply into your work. Thank you as well for asking questions. And if you would like to continue the discussion, we're going to open the networking space. So you're welcome to go over there. There you can also turn on your camera and see who else is in the room and continue discussing these topics. If you don't have now, then time now, then the next chance will be on the 14th of July, as we've just heard from Karina. So thank you so much for being here with us and I wish you a wonderful rest of your day. Goodbye.