 Welcome to this briefing on the Circular Cars Initiative and the Race to Zero Carbon Mobility. I'm Levi Tillerman. I lead the World Economic Forum Circular Cars Initiative. Just a few years ago, there was a lot of debate about what the car of the future would indeed look like. Today, that picture is coming into ever sharper focus. Going forward, cars must not only be electric, but circular. The Circular Cars Initiative is a joint effort by the World Economic Forum, the World Business Council for Sustainable Development, EIT Climate Kick, Systemic, Accenture Strategy, and McKinsey & Co. as well as a community of stakeholders from up and down the Automobility value chain. Since our kickoff in January, the Circular Cars Initiative has grown into a diverse community of leaders and sustainability from around the Automobility ecosystem. That is one of the elements that is so special about this community, its diversity. We have harnessed the insights of our auto manufacturers, materials companies, mobility as a service providers, and various industry analysts to capture a unique and a holistic perspective on the transition towards a zero carbon automobile. Today, we've invited a group of experts on automotive circularity to explain the what, the why, and the how of circular cars. I'm going to introduce them briefly. Let's start with Alexander Holst, Managing Director for Sustainability and Utility Strategy at Accenture Strategy. Alexander, thanks for joining us. Well, thank you very much, Levi, that I've cut the last three months. We're very exciting indeed, working with the diverse group of companies and bringing the insight all the way to this point today. Fantastic. Next, we have Eric Hannon, who is a partner at McKinsey, who has led McKinsey's materials work for the Circular Cars Initiative. Eric, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having us, Levi, and thank you for letting us participate in this. It's been fun. From BMW, we are joined by Irene Beghi, who leads Circular Economy for that auto manufacturer. Irene, thanks for joining. Thank you so much. Very excited to be joining. Thank you. And finally, we have Pascal Chalvon de Merce, who is the Chief Sustainability Officer from Solvay, which is a chemicals company that is a major supplier to the automotive industry. Pascal, we're very happy to have you. And you are on mute again, Pascal. It's a recurring problem with us. Yeah, sorry. Thank you, Levi, for the invitation. Yeah, the Circular Cars Initiative is really an exciting opportunity to explain how we at Solvay as chemicals and advanced materials company who are contributing to the Circular Cars Initiative. Well, Solvay has been a great support along the way. Today's session will be live streamed across our partner websites and various social media platforms. And we want to extend a warm welcome, all of you for joining us from around the world. We also want to invite you to participate and ask questions via our Slido QR code. Now, if you look up on your screen, there's a little white box with black marks in the middle of it. That's the QR code. Just hold up your phone, the camera of your phone to that QR code, and you will be directed to a link that will take you to the World Economic Forum's Slido page. Once you're there, select the Circular Cars Initiative session, and then you can type in questions and we're going to monitor those along the way. We're definitely going to use them during our Q&A session that will come at the end of this presentation. So please jump in, ask questions, we're looking forward to hearing from you, and feel free to let us know your name and either your job or why you're interested in the World Economic Forum. Those who have joined via talk link can also participate via our Zoom chat, which you'll find at the bottom center of the screen. With that, let's move on to our first speaker, Alexander Holst, Managing Director for Accenture Strategy in charge of sustainability and utility strategy. Alexander, your team has done great work clarifying what circularity means within an automotive context. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about it. Yeah, thank you very much, Levi. And the work, when we started, we basically had two sort of steps to do and we came up with one key results. Now, what we did in the beginning was widening the discussion, opening up what circular business means in the automotive industry. Because obviously this industry has been doing parts of circularity, e.g. recycling, e.g. remanufacturing for decades, right? The topic, the singular topic wasn't really new for that industry. Now, but we wanted to widen it, not just for the production side, or the recycling, but also the use phase business model. So material aspects as well as business model aspects. And then the second step was to close it, to close that discussion to a definition. What does a circular car looks like, as you mentioned in the beginning of your introduction? Now, what we want to propose today is a taxonomy, a five level taxonomy to guide the progress to a circular cars. This taxonomy, in our view, is intended to establish a common understanding of the level of circularity of a car and how it can be improved. To get a common understanding of discussion when we talk about what a circular car might look like. And this is very relevant and rather urgent for the industry and for all the ecosystem partners of the automotive industry. Because, well, the targets on CO2, say 50% reduction in absolute numbers by 2030 to hit 1.5 degree. Now, in that same period, everyone expects the car based ability to increase and not just a little bit to increase, but actually to increase 70% globally. And that in the context of a 50% need of absolute reduction, I think truly emphasize the need for action now. As we all know, the changes in the automotive industry are not taking place from one day to another. There's an entire supply chain, entire plan, planning process, production processes that might need to be changed. Now, let me give you two, three examples of what level one or level three or level five really means. Level one, that's what we are seeing today. This, the car industry is operating at that level, slowly but surely increasing circularity for silent optimization, such as switching to renewable energy, for example, in vehicle assembly. That is the scope to emission discussion that many car makers have been tackling over the last years. Level three, for example, looks at the full lifecycle of a vehicle that needs to be optimized. Together, maybe with better aligned incentive to the business model shift, especially fleet-based ones. We see that that could be more broadly reached by 2030. Now, on level four, the full value chain will be optimized, e.g., with high value recycling and purpose-built vehicles. Also likely for this, the vehicles are operating in an asset service model. This could be the case around for many vehicles by 2035. And we all know and appreciate that topics such as autonomous driving are not coming or might not be coming as far as we maybe have thought five years ago. On level five, that can be achieved through optimization of the whole mobility system, even envisioning, which is a true vision that using or making or being mobile actually contributes positively to this planet, even in an environmental sense, so being net positive impact. What a vision that could be. Now, to the question of how we measure these type of progress. We would measure it to support a quantitative assessment. Can you go back one slide, please? Thank you. We would measure this as a quantitative assessment of the circularity progress of a car. We propose two outcome-oriented measures. The first is carbon efficiency, where we all look at it today, carbon the key focus. But circularity is not just about carbon. It is about resource efficiency and that would be our second measurement. Carbon efficiency, we measure by dividing the life cycle greenhouse gas emission, equivalent of course, by passenger kilometers driven during the life cycle. Life cycle emissions include both CO2 linked to the product, like CO2 from materials, component productions, assembly and of life management, as well as CO2 from the use phase, like the classical tailpipe emission and emission from the provision of energy, such as fuel or electricity. Now, passenger kilometer per life cycle is the product of the average vehicle occupancy rate and the kilometer driven over the life cycle. The other piece, the resource efficiency is measured by dividing non-circular resource consumption for passenger kilometers. What do we mean by non-circular resource consumption? Well, this considers the material that is in the car, including replacement components during the life cycle and material scrapped from production. In a simplified way, we define non-circular resource consumption as inflow and outflow that are not remanufactured over cycles. Well, as you see on those two lines as the progression of those two curves show, carbon efficiency will initially decrease more rapidly caused by the switch from internal combustion engine to electric battery. Decarbonizing, of course, the tailpipe emissions along with the electricity grid decarbonization, you have that free flow. From then on, both outcomes measures follow a relatively similar path as a major amount of the CO2 emissions can be avoided by replacing virgin materials with recycled or remanufactured ones. So what are these pathways to take for that transition? And Alexander, I'm going to urge you to go quickly through this next slide. Absolutely, I will do very much. Now, what are we seeing here is, of course, four pathways on the two trends, the usage transformation on the top and the product transformation on the very right and the energy, material, lifetime and utilization. And the key point is that these optimization pathways are all connected to each other to a certain degree. And that, I believe, sort of really emphasize the need for the various four pathways, whether it's the energy, the material, and pathways that we need to go through. And back to you, Levi. Great, thank you very much, Alexander. And as you know, I'm a big fan of your team and the analysis that you've done as part of the circular cars initiative. And we're a little over time, but I just want to ask you one quick question, which is, were there any conclusions that you came to as part of your research here that were surprising? Well, maybe in hindsight, you would say, well, that's not really surprising, but when you go through the analysis, you found surprising that how much of the different solutions that we all talk about, whether it's the material pieces, whether it's the business model pieces, that are truly interlinked and that they are combined different solutions, substantial synergies can be generated. I'll give you just an example. We all know as a service model of vehicles, e.g. subscription-based ownership, provide an incentive for the lifetime improvement. Now, on the normal car, that would basically just mean maybe in a 10, 20 year lifetime, that car may be run out of lifetime after two, three years if it is being utilized 80, 90% of the time instead of three, four, five. But if you then change the materials, the way the car is constructed, you could actually increase the lifetime or that. So that is interlinked of those solutions. That is really surprising. Great, well, thank you very much for those opening comments, Alexander, and I'm sure we'll hear more from you in Q&A. With that, let's drill down one level deeper and talk about decarbonizing automotive materials. To do that, we have with us Eric Hannon, partner at McKinsey, who's overseen CCI's materials work. Eric, could you sketch out a roadmap for our audience on how to decarbonize the materials of the automotive sector? Yeah, indeed. So what we're gonna see on the next page is an approach for thinking about how exactly we would attack material decarbonization. So what we're doing here and what we're trying to do together in the CCI group is recognizing that as power trains become significantly more electrified, more and more of the carbon embedded in the vehicle is gonna be in the materials and not in the useful life. And so if we do wanna reach a fully net zero position by 2050, we also have to decarbonize upstream. So kind of the next horizon of decarbonization. And that's what the approach that you'll see, that you see on the left-hand side does. Well, we have another page in a second that'll give us some examples, but basically what we have on the left-hand side is a carbon abatement curve and it tries to sketch out what are all of the possible levers and activities we can have around abating all the primary materials in a vehicle. So this is a view that incorporates about roughly 95% of material emissions. Those are embedded in steel, aluminum, ferrous plastics, glass and rubber. And if you haven't seen an abatement curve before, basically what it says is the x-axis is the amount of abatement that any specific action achieves in abating the embedded carbon in a vehicle and the y-axis is the price of that abatement, right? And so anything below the x-axis is actually a win-win. So that's an abatement lever that saves money and saves carbon at the same time and anything above the y-axis is something that's gonna cost us a bit of money. The example cut you see on the screen is a cut for 2030. And together with Levi and team, we've modeled this from 2020 out through 2040. We've chosen to take a 2030 cut here. And as you would expect, a lot of the levers here depend on technical maturity. And so a 23 curve looks a little bit cheaper, so to say on average than a 2020 curve, for example. When we look at this, we see that over the next decade by the end of 2030, we expect that roughly 2 thirds of the emissions upstream in a vehicle could be abated cost-neutrally. That means essentially the area under the curve is zero. So if we took all of the win-win levers where we're abating while saving money and then chose to also invest in those savings and abating further levers, we could get around two thirds of the emission for essentially for free. But that does require a few changes to the system that we have now. And some of the things that Wolfgang talked about in the previous session, for example, where we would have to increase the amount of circularity, we would have to increase the amount of high quality material harvested end of life. We would have to have some additional technological innovation around inert anodes and aluminum, for example. So it's not a given, but it's a plausible route. So just to make it a little bit more tangible, what are some examples of types of levers? So we just tried to simplify the curve a little bit to show you what are the things that we're talking about. Some of the win-win levers are things like mechanical recycling. So the mechanical recycling of plastic parts, especially non-visual ones where we don't care about surface finish and they're just brackets. We look at moving to low carbon electricity, some of the stuff that our Accenture friends were referring to around scope too for most people, just moving to renewables across a lot of the electrical processes, increasing open loop recycling. There's already a lot of opportunity today. This is one lever today that's already a win-win. I'm moving to increase secondary aluminum. Passenger coronatoriously has a lot of upside on secondary aluminum where it's actually cheaper today than virgin aluminum. And then as we go up the curve, we start to get to some more expensive but promising technologies. We know that if we're going to abate upstream, we have to abate the significant amount of steel. And so we're going to have to move to EAF type technologies over the next decade. And we're going to have to feed that with increased scrap or find green hydrogen in order to power those furnaces. So I think I'm already just a few seconds over time, Levi, so I'll stop there and hand it over back to you. Thank you, Eric. That was terrific. We're going to try to regain a little bit of time because we're slightly behind but I want to ask you one quick question, which is who do you hope is going to use this abatement tool and how do you hope that they'll use it in seconds? Yeah, so there's not just one stakeholder group. So we're already using it with automotive OEMs for them to kind of lay out their strategy to try and get the biggest bang for their abatement buck. So rather than just setting a broad target of abatement across all materials, understanding where we can get the most abatement for the money that we invest, we're using it with suppliers for them to be able to understand what they should be expecting from their customers in the future and where they think they're going to be pushed for abatement as the OEMs start to look for improved performance. And also, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no, that's okay. Let's talk more about it in Q&A so we can get some more time for audience questions. And thank you for joining us again, Eric. We always appreciate your perspective. Next, we have a perspective from one of the world's leading auto manufacturers. Dr. Irene Feige leads circular economy initiatives at the BMW Group. Irene, how does BMW's vision for the future line up with the scenarios presented by McKinsey and Accenture Strategy? Hi, thank you so much. Actually, a lot of this, what we've just seen is completely in line of what we are doing. So first of all, we've fully committed to the Paris Climate Agreement. And this is not just a saying and words, but we've committed to the Science-Based Initiative, which means that we are taking the science-based targets which actually give us the goals for achieving our climate path. This means that we will bring all our emissions across the life cycle, actually all scopes within the Paris climate path. This means well below two degrees for scope one and two, we even have 1.5 degrees, which is easier because these are our own emissions and it's much easier to control our own emissions than of course those of the supplier. So we are very aggressive in what we are doing ourselves. We have a goal of bringing our own emissions down by 80% until 2030. This of course includes a lot of green energy, but also some heat substitution with green heat. So there's a lot of what we are doing ourselves. The rest of the emissions that we cannot get away from our own emissions, we will certainly take measures to go net zero so that we will have some compensation here and we're looking at very aggressive compensation themes here. We know that compensation sometimes can also be difficult so you really need to take a very close look in what you're investing. When it comes to the other scopes, for upstream, which is very challenging because you have like a thousand suppliers that you need to work with. So we would like to bring down our emissions of the supply chain by 20% until 2030. At first glance, this doesn't sound ambitious, but if you look into the fact that we of course strongly includes electric vehicle production, which means that our emissions actually would go up because of the battery production if we didn't do anything. This means we need to work really closely together with suppliers in order to achieve these targets. Until 2030, you can achieve these targets. There's a whole lot of contribution from green energy of course, which is easy, but then it gets much more difficult when you need to go into circular. Achieving the targets for 2030, to us it seems ambitious but reachable, but when we go to the path for 2040, the contribution of circular economy becomes huge. And this is actually where the big, big challenge lies ahead of us because then we really need to rethink processes. We need to rethink the requirements for the materials that we are using. We have a very, I mean, as the homologation processes across the world really require a lot from our cars and thus the materials need to have all these performances. And as of today, there's of course a strong requirement also for some metals to use primary because of the performance. And so we strongly need to look into what can we actually do in terms of getting either better secondary material or in terms of the construction of the car. So to modify also the construction of the car in order to be able to increase the secondary material share. So what I wanted to say is actually that achieving the Paris skulls in the next few years is something that is really very much achievable. Just as we've also done in the Bateman curve, of course there are a lot of measures that are quick wins, the low hanging fruit, so to say but then when you go further in time it gets much more difficult and you really need to think about the whole life cycle the whole process you need to work together with a lot of suppliers, et cetera. So it's an extremely complex topic and you really need to look also where you need to focus which metals you need to take into focus what you're doing with plastics, et cetera. So it's extremely complex. And we are convinced that we can only do this with the contribution of others in the industry to push the suppliers in the right direction. So it's actually an effort that we want to achieve with a lot of strong players in the industry. Great, well thank you very much for those remarks to Irene. It looks like the circular cars initiative has its work cut out for it. With that actually let's ask one quick question even though we're behind which is I wanna ask you when you look at the entire ecosystem you guys kind of sit in the captain seat as you're the OEMs and you put in the orders for the materials and you sell the cars what is the low hanging fruit for circular economy? Of course you can't I mean the low hanging fruit is of course using industry scrap as we heard before and what is much more difficult is using a post-consumer scrap and really something that has already been in the loop. So when you really wanna close the loop it becomes much more difficult because you get contaminated materials, et cetera and you need to think about what you do with this kind of contamination or how to get it out with chemical processes. Well, thank you for those remarks. We look forward to hearing more from you during Q&A. So finally we have Pascal Chalvón de Marseille who's the Chief Sustainability Officer for the chemicals company Solvay. Solvay has really embraced the challenge of decarbonization and it's a major player in the circular cars initiative. It's clear that this is going to be a big challenge. So Pascal, perhaps you can tell us a little bit more. Thank you, Levi. Yeah, sustainability requires chemistry and chemistry as an industry and the science after all provides the building blocks, molecules to create, extract, separate, close the loop. So, and this is true in the range of industries. So this includes sustainable mobility which is key to achieving zero emission. And as far as we are concerned it's really a great opportunity for growth and innovation. Starting with ourselves. We launched our plan, ambitious and holistic plans called Solvay 1 Planet. One year earlier and we want to really decarbonize our production. This is one of the pillars and then resources and better life are two other pillars. Decarbonizing our production and that of our customer is one of our key objectives and we committed to reduce our own absolute emissions by 26% which is faster than before to align them with the Paris Agreement as mentioned by Irene. More recently we raised the bar and committed to say it's science-based target. So let's say the industry and Solvay is committed to that direction. This is quite a challenge. If you see that we are in energy-intensive industry. So how we get there? We have developed and deployed a range of solutions and we continue to work on many more. The boldest one is probably the phase out code. We have been using code from more than 160 years from now. So it's a big, big shift. And then we have deployed a number of renewable projects using wind, solar. The most significant one is probably the solar farm in the US. We have one of the largest solar farms in the country. Well, a project like this allows us to meet demand from our customers. Like major US smart device maker or world player in flavor and fragrances to provide them with product manufacture with clean energy resources. So all in all, we are acting now. We have reduced more than 400,000 tons per year of situ emissions last year, for example. But the second role is really not in-house. It's really to provide solutions to our customers through innovation and the product that we make. In system ability, our advanced material like the specialty polymers that we have or the carbon fiber composites replace heavy metals to help lightweight planes and cars. So they use less fuel and emit less CO2. We have also new technologies for batteries which help improve the autonomy, performance, safety. And this is, of course, essential for electric vehicles. So that's the second part, providing solutions. But the third one, which is really core focus is to bring to the circular solutions where chemistry, we feel, is really indispensable. The circular economy requires us to rethink the way we produce and what we produce and to do so from scratch, right from the design phase of a product or a solution all the way through the end of its life. So chemistry enables the development of renewable, recyclable and reusable materials to close the roof. For example, we have set a partnership to recycle batteries for electrical vehicles. We teamed up with the Olia, we have announced that which Olia is a leader in waste management. And what we will do is we will go one step further, the extra mile by bringing the technologies to extract the raw materials, lithium, cobalt and nickel, allowing us to build brand new batteries from the previously used with the same quality. You know, when Irene was mentioning the contaminated product after the mechanical recycling, then starts the added value of chemistry in order to purify that and being able to extract the value and recover with the, you know, the virgin material. So maybe one word, of course, on the external environment to do all of that. Full decarbonization and projects really still are complex, you know, and the circular economy requires fundamental change. I would say a systemic shift to scale up and accelerate. Nobody can do that alone, you know. So the key word is probably partnership. I think this was also mentioned by Irene, you know, partnership is essential to enable breakthrough technologies, new infrastructures for electric, hydrogen, you know, for the waste collection we're talking. So we need, you know, a systemic shift. And to make all this work, we all also need to think about people, you know, re-skill, up-skill employees, rethink totally our education system. This is all a, you know, mindset change. So there is, of course, our place in the world as regard to trade and fair competition, you know. Because, you know, we absolutely need to protect the players who are really investing a lot in this new technology. So I think that, let's say, the Circular Applied Initiative is really a great platform to exchange ideas and lead the transformation across the value chain. Well, thank you, Pascal, and thanks to Bulde for their leadership in this important area. So with that, let's move to our question and answer session. If you can pull up the Slido slide, I want to give our audience members a chance to chime in here. Once again, the way that you use this Slido tool is you hold up your phone's camera, just your regular camera. You center the white box here on the right hand of the screen and then you'll get an opportunity to click on a link and you just need to select the Circular Cars session. And we would love to hear from all of you. In the meantime, while everybody is working on that, I have a few questions for our panelists. So I would ask all of you to please unmute yourselves and we're going to mix it up a little bit. Pascal did not get his question, so we're going to start off with Pascal. And I just want to know Pascal, when you think about decarbonization within an international context, how do the challenges of competition with other players internationally affect your thinking and your strategizing on circularity and decarbonization? So that's an excellent question. Actually, the keywords to succeed are innovation, innovation in process, product, business models. It's also excellence in executions, partnership financing, but all of that requires resources. And the keyword in competitiveness will be fair trade. We need to prevent carbon leakage. And the mechanism has to be looked very, very carefully because the question is not only to decrease the emission. Decreasing carbon emission is necessary, but it cannot be done by increasing carbon footprint just through imports because some other, let's say, regions have less demanding norms and standards. So this mechanism and the overall global playing field is really the best goal regarding the circularity. Terrific. And Laura, why don't you put back the slido slide just in case anyone missed it? We want to make sure that we're not depriving people of the opportunity to chime in. And next, I'd like to move to Eric. Eric, you've done that interesting work on materials decarbonization. One of the parts of that analysis was you really kind of had to do a deep dive onto some of the specific technologies that would be required to move from these carbon-intensive modes of manufacture to carbon neutral or even in some cases carbon negative forms of manufacture. What are some of the big capital investments that are going to be necessary to get from here to circularity and on what timeline? I think the first and most near term is as far as we can electrify everything. So broad electrification of processes along the entire supply chain is a big one. And electrification using, obviously, renewables rather than the existing grid. So that's a big one. Once we get past that, it's clear we have to have a hydrogen economy to decarbonize the rest. Can you give us a specific example of a technology that now doesn't use electricity and we can transition to green electricity and will make a big difference? I mean, most plant processes, right? So any kind of fastening, joining, machining, anything like that where it's, I mean, a lot of it is already electrified. So there's already a high amount of electric processes that are just using a dirty grid, right? And as Irene talked about, right, that their commitment to making sure that we're using a renewable grid for the stuff we've already electrified, right? There are some thermal processes that we can electrify. The great example, I mean, the top of mind example for a lot of people in industry is steel making, right? Where traditionally we're gonna use a blast furnace that often is coal powered. We have to, over time, transition that to electric arc furnaces, technically possible, but most electric arc furnaces today are still using a dirty grid and so we're gonna have to drive that with hydrogen probably, right? So just converting from the thermal to electric doesn't yet solve the problem. We still have to shift to a hydrogen economy to be able to drive the arc furnace. And so those are the really big intensive capital stuff. There's a ton around recycling as well, right? The recycling capacity that we have today around mechanical recycling isn't there. We're also gonna need chemical recycling on top, which has to be industrialized and we also need, as we already heard, the end of life solutions to make sure that we've got a better circular chain. All of that is gonna require a big amount of capital expenditure as well. Those are probably the three biggest ones. There's a lot more, but- I'm sure that's a very rich data-rich study that you've done. So let's move back to Irene for a second. So Irene, BMW is really one of the leaders when it comes to experimenting with new materials and light weighting and new manufacturing processes. And I wanna know how that experience has informed your pathway towards a circular economy. When you think about the strategy for circularity and decarbonization, how do those experiments in years past come into play? Sure. We have the challenge that we need to optimize a very complex optimization problem. So on the one hand, the lighter we go, the better we are in the use phase, of course. But usually the lighter you go, the more energy you need in the production. So there is always this trade-off that you have. And the third thing that comes into the calculation is the dismantling at the end of the life cycle. So actually we need to think about how the dismantling industry is going to develop way beyond 2040. So when we think of constructing the cars right now that we will bring into the market by 2040, they will be dismantled by 2060, right? So we need to think about which materials actually make the car lighter, has the performance that we need, and at the same time is highly recycled. Do you think that electrification makes this easier somehow? With electric cars, people sometimes say that there are fewer pieces involved and you don't get as much fouling. Absolutely. So you reduce complexity, this helps. But at the same time, you get a very complex element into the game, which is the battery. We've heard about battery recycling before. We will get a lot of variation of different battery technologies as well. So we need to think about what other materials going to be that will be needed later on and which of the materials can then be used that are in the battery, that we put in the battery right now. So the challenge that we have is actually the very, very long-term timeframe that we need to think about, especially when it comes to really closing the loop. So if you really want to close the loop within our industry, we need to think about how we engage in the recycling process as well and how the industry is going to develop and what we as a car industry, in what way we need to construct the cars for the recycling business actually to be able to take them apart. So building for disassembly is a critical component here. Absolutely, yes. So thank you for those comments. I want to take a couple of questions from the audience. We have a question from a student here. He says he's working in the sustainability space and he's very interested in how you could use some of the emerging technologies like blockchain in the process of circularity and decarbonization. And I'm wondering if maybe Alexander, if you have any thoughts on that, and if Accenture has thought about some of these new fourth industrial revolution technologies and how they could factor in. Absolutely, thank you very much, Levi. That's a very, but that question of, I mean, blockchain is one of those technologies that is probably behind the hype curve, right? We've heard this word many, many years already. So now it distills down to the real usage of that technology. And that's actually Accenture is the world largest integrator of blockchain into processes of clients. And for this particular, for this particular problem of circularities all about transparency of the materials to understand where does that material really comes from in order to identify the risk on the risk side as well. But also then of course to have when the product design when it comes to the product design piece to have better visibility, better transparency when you are drafting in your digital trend when you're doing all these product design decisions. And I think that is sort of a big point of the blockchain. What are some of the applications where you have found blockchains be really valuable and effective? And are there some where you look at it and you say, you know what? This is an interesting idea, but we can really just use a database for that. Well, I think I can relate to another industry not the car industry, but where I found it useful, that is in the coffee and the cacao industry and that supply chain where it actually helped to reduce the numbers of documentation when a material crosses borders that has been quite drastically reduced, right? Because it creates the security amongst the stakeholder and then therefore they can sort of reduce certain certifications that are maybe paper based. That is one solution that has been proven in that global supply chain and is probably applicable to the automotive industry, which is global as well. Thank you. All right, so we have another question from the audience here and I'm going to transpose it a little bit, which is they would like to hear what is the earliest that you think you could really start leaning in to some of these circular economy practices. So I'd be interested to hear from Pascal. What are your early plans for circularity? How soon do you think you can go down that path and how far can you go by say 2030 or 2035? That's a tricky question, Levi, because circularity requires a systemic transformation. So there are low-hanging foods and we have started through opportunities. Actually, what we have discovered across our first years of circularity is that we cut the chains, which means that that's the right contact with brand owners, with the end of the chain, which reverse the rationale. It's really discussing with OEMs, discussing with partners that we were not used to discuss. And this is true for the car industry. This is true for the electronic industry. This is true for water industry utilities regarding the membranes and everything that could be recycled. So actually, it really reversed the way we have been doing business in the past. So we have low-hanging foods, we have opportunities, we have transform, we have new flavor and vanillin, for example, just coming from rice waste, you know, and we have a number of examples, but they are only examples. They are not yet fully systemic changes. So we just have one minute left, but Irene, I wanna give you a chance also. Do you think that you could accelerate faster than 2040? That's your current goal. Are they looking at ways to get to 2035 or 2030 leaning into that circular economy? Well, I didn't say that we start with circular economy by 2040. By 2040, we have goals that are really closing the loop already. So what we are doing right now is actually using secondary materials. And of course, we ramp up our secondary material shares also in the course until 2030. What I meant is that from 2030 onwards, it really gets much tougher because you get at that. You really reach frontiers in terms of constructing cars when increasing, further increasing secondary material shares. So you're really reaching performance borders and we need to think about how we can move them further out in order to really closing the loop fully. So we have very aggressive goals for 2040, but we start right now. Well, I think that that is a great note to wrap up on. We start right now. And I wanna thank all of you for that stimulating discussion. Accenture and McKinsey will be publishing their findings in the days and weeks to come. We hope that this is the start of a conversation that will transform the Automobility ecosystem and that will change the race for electric cars and transform it into a race for a truly circular economy and a new sustainable paradigm for Automobility. So thank you all for joining us. Thank you to our panelists for participating and we look forward to engaging you in the weeks, months, years and indeed decades ahead because this is going to be a long road towards a circular economy. Thank you very much.