 Prepare for the extraction point. We've been briefed on all the important stories and events in the world of emerging information. Now it's time to extract the data and turn it into action. Live from the SiliconANGLE Studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, this is extraction point with John Furrier. Okay we're live back in the Palo Alto Studios. I'm John Furrier for the extraction point. We extract the signal from the noise and my special guest today I'm excited to have here is Paul Martino who is the founder of Aggregate Knowledge and also storied entrepreneur in Silicon Valley who now lives in Philly with his family comes out here. Paul is known for among other things being a great entrepreneur. TechGeek loves tech, loves to build startups. Started one of the first social networks with Mark Pink is called Tribe. Started his own company funded by Kleina Perkins with his partner Chris Law called Aggregate Knowledge which is booming and doing great and now more famous for being the first round investor in Zynga company that is exploding with revenue as Kleina Perkins said is the of all their portfolio comes in the history more than Google's made more money faster than anybody. Paul Martino welcome to the extraction point great to see you. John as always awesome to see you. First I got to start with you're now I forgot to mention that you're actually running a venture firm so in addition to being famous for Zynga you're running bullpen capital so first give the folks out there an update and first confirm or deny you were in the first round of Zynga or not. Yes the the first round of Zynga there were several institutional investors and several individual investors Matt Otgo, me, Reid Hoffman were individual investors Avalon, Union Square, Accelerator Ventures and Foundry were the institutional investors in that first round. Peter was Peter Thiel. Yeah Peter was also an individual investor in the first round. So that's officially the first round investors of Zynga we have clarified that and that is now on the books but now you're you've been successfully founded Aggregate Knowledge you now have a CEO running that what's the update with Aggregate Knowledge. Yeah so a great guy runs that company it's a guy you need to meet and have on this show Dave Jakobowski. Aggregate Knowledge really went in a direction where all of the focus was on providing data and analytics to the major ad agencies and John Nelson who started Organic one of the first agencies is now the CEO of Omnicom Digital joined the board and I said look we got to get a guy who's an ad heavy in here and Jakobowski was previously the GM of Microsoft Ad Center and I had a senior position at a specific media and we brought him in and he's just been kicking butt. Aggregate Knowledge has really really made a significant significant contribution in the area of data and analytics for these major agencies and he was able to bring in a crew of people know exactly how to run that business. So you're a big fan of big data then. Oh yeah. We just had a big special yesterday and big data mentioned about it so that's cool we're gonna we'll get into a lot of this I was just kind of get the the small talk out of the way here your current role is the founder of Bullpen Capital. Right. So Bullpen to me I'm a baseball nut I love baseball Bullpen means you go to Bullpen for relief. Yep you got it. Close the game out hopefully or mid innings relief. So tell us about what Bullpen is it's a special fund as I know from reading and talking to you to target an expansion of this new seed and explosive new funding environment. Right. Explain the force. Right. I'll tell you how we got the name at the end too. So here's what happened. I've been investing with a lot of the so-called super angels and that's kind of a misnomer because they really are actually in some cases actual small venture firms too. I've been investing with a lot of them since they got off the ground. Josh Koppelman from first round is one of the first investors aggregate knowledge. Mike Maples was an early advisor to the company. I've known Jeff Clavier who runs soft tech since he was at Reuters and with the late 90s. And so I've worked with these guys done a lot of investing and we were me and my buddies Duncan Davidson and Rich Melman were sitting around over summer of 09 doing a little bit data analysis right another big data assignment. We realized that as more and more of these seed funds got created they were creating an inventory of companies that weren't quite ready to go to the traditional venture guys but were also difficult to bridge from just the seed guys because the seed guys at that time didn't have really big funds. So wait a minute. You've got some really good companies here. Just to clarify for the folks out there seed funds don't traditionally have follow on big funds like a VC firm. Right. That's what you're referring to. They tend not to have as big a reserve. So if a big fund writes you a five million dollar check and you stub your toe you can probably get some more money to get through the hardships. But a lot of the the new Super Angel funds are smaller funds and you get a five hundred thousand dollar check and if you need another five hundred thousand dollars it can frequently be very difficult because they make so many investments with smaller reserves. Yeah. And so you got Dave McClure, Clavier, Maples first round capital true ventures made first round true ventures more traditional VC than say Dave McClure and Mike Maples and Clavier. They're out doing some really good work out there funding really good company spending a lot of time. I know I've seen them work on their butt off. Yeah. They need some air support. Right. They need some cover. They need a little bullpen. Is that that's you come in and say hey for your stars that are going to rise up. Yeah. And so that's exactly right. So what happens is here's what the analysis we did turned out of their portfolio 30 percent of their portfolios in aggregate quickly are really exciting companies. You know and they quickly go up to a venture auction and the guys in Sand Hill wrote are excited about it. About 20 percent of their deals you know that they don't like too much because just floating there. Yeah. You know the entrepreneur wasn't a fit the team didn't execute that left 50 percent of their deals in the middle which they kind of were too early to tell as Mike Maples sometimes says they were in an extended learning and discovery phase. They hadn't quite figured out what their model was. And this pivoting stuff's going on right now. The markets changes turbulence. So these guys are right. And so you look you look at some examples and you go well wait a minute for every Zynga that goes up into the right immediately. Go look at the stories of Chegg and Modcloth and Etsy and quite frankly the in between round on Twitter and for every one Zynga that you find that just hits it out of the park the right way there were four to five companies that went through that hard intermediate round that it was difficult in the environment where you have only a potentially thinly capitalized seed fund in front of you to go get through that difficult point. So I said guys you need a bullpen. And the way we came up with the name is I'm involved in a deal with Chad Durbin who used to pitch for the Phillies and now as a relief pitcher for the Cleveland Indians. And he was in our office and we were talking about this idea and Chad said yeah it's kind of like you're building a bullpen for the seed guys. I'm like that's exactly right that's the name we got to go with. And so fortunately I was involved in this company called Showcase U which is actually a cool site for recruiting for college scholarships for collegiate athletes. You're a high school student and you throw 80 miles an hour left handed and you're in 10th grade. How do you figure out where the right scholarships are. So Durbin and some of the Phillies were the original investors in this company called Showcase U. It's actually a cool company. Because the combine work out online basically for the high school kids. And because the high school kids sometimes are in tough geographies to get to. You're in a small rural area in Nebraska. How do they find out that you're the guy who can throw 89 miles an hour. Great. So I mean this VC market. So basically what you're referring to with bullpen right now is and you've been an entrepreneur. So you live through a classic you know classic financing your last company financed by Kleina Perkins and you know tribe. I forget who finance tribe. Mayfield was the lead investor. Again another traditional VC firm. All tier one VCs you know all the Mayfield people are you now is slipped a little bit. Some of their key partners have slipped away but they've all moved on. What you're really referring to is there's a new dynamic of entrepreneurship going on now where. There are some break out companies that just need a little bit more time to mature. In the old model they just be kind of closed down. The VC guy would be on the board and has his hand in the ass and you know really not growing and do another round. They get kind of lazy in a way if they got 10 10 boards are on. So with the Super Angels and the fact that it doesn't take a lot of cash to start a company. You've got more deals getting done. So the the Y Combinator the Dave McClure's and Jeff Claviers and the Mike Maples and some of the things in SiliconANGLE Labs which we're doing here is telling you about. We're funding companies the more companies funded the better. Well you come in as you keep them alive longer. So they could pivot possibly. That's right. And so what happens is right now. The venture industry is being disrupted the same way the venture industry has funded companies that have disrupted other industries. They are being disrupted in the exact same way and the disruption happened from below as always happens. It started in the seed stage. Now in order for the disruption to go all the way through. There need to be companies that come after seed stage investors that have the same philosophy and mentality. Pro entrepreneur. Easy terms operating people who get their hands dirty to get deals done. You need that in the B stage and in the C stage and here's what our prediction is John. Our prediction is a few years from now there'll be a company that comes after bullpen that does series C and series D financing or mezzanine financing with the same philosophy as bullpen. And then DST is at the end of that chain. And you can imagine building companies that go all the way to liquidity. You got money from Maples first bullpen second this unnamed company third and you went quasi public with DST and you've bypassed the entire venture scheme entirely. And the entire institutional public markets complete liquidity wealth creation companies creating jobs. I mean this is the paradigm. I mean this is an amazing. I mean this is a potentially amazing point in the history of U.S. finance. The idea that you could go to billion dollar outcomes bypassing not only the public markets on the back side but the traditional venture ecosystem on the front side. I mean that is a disruption if ever there was one. Amen. I mean I am with you a hundred percent. You know there's some people who will argue regulation. Is it market forces. First of all I'm a big believer in market forces. So I think what you're doing is clearly identifying an opportunity that dynamics are all lying lining up. Entrepreneurs are validating it. And so but the questions are regulations. I mean first of all I'm anti-regulation but as you start to get to that liquidity in summer argument I even wrote a blog post about saying hey you know basically Facebook's public right now. What do you say to those guys. This is the change in the history of the financial issues. Do we want the government regulating this. Yeah. So my co-founder of bullpen I started bullpen with two really good guys Duncan Davison who is the founder of CoVad and was at vantage point for years asking him to buy government regulation with CoVad. I mean we know what happened then because of the I like war select wars. But not only that to some extent CoVad doesn't exist unless the telecom act in 94 happens. So in some ways a creation of the government to. Good point. So but right but but think about that the arbitrariness of government as opposed to a well thought out centralized plan. So anyway so Duncan sometimes uses that phrase you know he talks a lot about the way in which the government you know that the worst thing you can ever hear is I'm with the government I'm here to help right. I mean that's about the way it goes. But his point around the the the new quasi public markets is money will find a way. And when Sarbanes-Oxley happens and it's tough to go public and you're a CEO like Pinkus who's running one of the great all time companies in Silicon Valley at Zynga. He says you know going public is not an entrance it's not an exit it's an entrance. That's this that's his quote. Why would I why do I need that headache. I mean I was just talking with Charles Beeler who sold for the El Dorado he sold compelling one of his investments to Dell for over a billion dollars and and three part another firm he was on that one that was sold to HP during the storage wars. He's talking about the lawsuits literally this shakedown of the medley file lawsuits. You know you could have got more money. So this public market's brutal. No doubt no doubt. I think what you're doing is a revolution. I'm all excited about this new environment. Again anything with this liquidity wealth creation with the engine of innovation can be powered. That's fantastic. But back to startups. OK get back to where you're playing. The history of Silicon Valley was built on the notion of value add. Some have said over the past 10 years venture capital has not been truly value add. And some were arguing value subtract and then just money. So what you're talking about here is getting in and helping me stay alive. What's the value added side of the equation. I mean I know that a lot of these folks like like our like ourselves here at Silicon Angle McClure Clavier and Maples and true ventures they roll their sleeves up first round capital. Right. But you can only provide so much it kind of expands. Right. You guys are filling in the capital market side. Right. How are you guys helping out on the value add because a lot of those companies may be the next Twitter. Right. You've got a bridge to finance it. That's right. Allow them to do the pivot or get the creative energy to grow and they hit that market if they hit that hit it going vertical you got to kind of sometimes nurture it. You guys have a strategy for that. Talk about the value and so let me let me give you my perspective on that. So I think 10 years ago when you're starting a company the name of the venture firm was more important than potentially the partner on your board. Ten years later the name of the firm matters much less and it's the name of the partner and it's the operating experience that that partner partner brought to bear. And you go talk to the 24 year old entrepreneur versus the 34 year old entrepreneur the 24 entrepreneur 24 year old entrepreneur once a guy like you or a guy like me on his board. He once have been there done that started a company was the CEO exited it got fired hired people fired other people scar tissue scars knowledge experience. Exactly. And if a good friend of mine who's in the traditional business I'll leave his name out of it. He sometimes says the following phrase the era of the gentleman VC is over and what he means by the era of the gentleman VC is over is you know if your background is you were a junior associate who came in with a finance degree in an MBA and never started a company you're not going to get picked by the entrepreneur anymore. In 10 years from now almost everyone in the business is going to have a resume that looks more like a Chris law Paul Martino Mark Pink is that you name all the people who we started our companies with. Yeah there's a lot more entrepreneurs with track record certainly with with the kind of big companies in the valley just in our generation net study with Netscape Google PayPal. Right. Now I want to see Facebook is and then now Zynga is an ecosystem is just inter intertwined. I mean for every failure that spawns more success right. So that's right. That's a Silicon Valley way. Yeah well a tribe was tribe was a perfect example of a successful failure. Tribe was not a successful outcome but it was in many ways a very successful way to actually pioneer what became social networking. You know investments got made into Facebook as a result of that Zynga and aggregate knowledge were both the outcrops of what was learned. I mean to some extent the original business case of Zynga was remarkably simple. There is a ton of time being spent on social networks and after you get done finding your buddies and looking at photos what do you do. And Pinkus' original vision to some extent was let's have games to play. And that insight doesn't happen that way unless you don't do tribe and go into the trenches and get the scars on your back. And your your second venture of our adventure right at the tribe was aggregate knowledge which was similar concept. People are connected. I mean you got to be excited though. You know you were involved in the tribe very early on all the stuff that you dealt with activity streams news feed connections the social science. You know one of the one of the nicest pieces of validation of this recently was over in Q4 of 2010 seven of the patents that me Chris Law Elliot Low and Brian Lawler wrote got issued. Now they're all owned by Cisco Cisco bought tribe in the end. They bought the assets in the patent filings but there are patent filings that go back to 2002 on the cornerstones and hallmarks of what social networking really is that we wrote back then that have now issued or granted or sitting in the Cisco portfolio. And while that's kind of like a consolation prize in that there wasn't a big outcome for tribe. It is very validating to see that those original claims on really cutting edge stuff have been been issued and I'm excited about that. You should be proud. I'm proud to know you a great guy and you have great integrity. You're going to do well as a venture capitalist. I think you people will trust you and you're fair. And there's two types of people in this world people who help people who screw people. So you know you really on one side of the other you're you're not in between you're truly on the on the good side. I really enjoy having chatting with you. But let's talk about entrepreneurship from that perspective about patents. Try was an outcome that we all can relate to that what happened with Facebook with Zuckerberg and those guys are doing over there. That's entrepreneurship. So talk to the entrepreneurs out there. Yeah. Hey you know what you do some good work it all comes back to you. Talk about the the karma of entrepreneurship. A failure is not a bad thing. It's kind of a punchline these days of failures are stepping stone to the next thing. But talk about your experience and let's you and I talk about how to deal with fear for those first time entrepreneurs out there in their 20s. What just give them a sense of how to approach their venture and if it fails or succeeds. What advice would you give them. Yeah well like winning and losing is an important part of the game. I mean certain companies are going to be successful in certain ones aren't. And if you go and start 10 unsuccessful companies. Maybe this isn't exactly the business for you. But that said how you play the game is important as well. And if you're a high integrity guy who gets good investors and you make quality decisions and let's say the market wasn't a fit. You're going to get the money the second time because people said you know I work with that guy. That guy really did a good job. You know they never got it quite right. But this is a guy who learned the right lessons. So when I'm coaching a first time CEO and I'm a CEO coach of a couple guys now. You know I'm looking for someone who's sitting there going hey I not only want to do this to win and be successful. But I want to learn. I want to do this better than no one walks in and says I'll learn from my failure. I hope I'm successful. I mean you go and say hey I'm going to be successful. I want to win. Failure is not an option but failure happens right. I mean it's bad breaks. But but here is the key lesson. I tell this to all of the entrepreneurs I work with. You will not be successful if you're making mistakes that were made by those before you. If you make novel mistakes you're in good company. Right. And so only ever make a novel mistake. I mean a good example is when Claude and I started Chris Law and I started Aggregate Knowledge. Aggregate Knowledge was the original business model was around recommendations and there were dead bodies in front of us. There was net perceptions. There was firefly and actually I was in the office this morning with Yazdi one of the founders of firefly podcast with them. Yeah. So predictive analytics for us. What did we do. We went out and we I flew out and met John Riedel University of Minnesota who was the founder of net perceptions. I dug up Yazdi. I got these guys on my advisory board and while Aggregate Knowledge was not successful in the recommendation business and pivoted into the data management thing. We made novel mistakes. We did not repeat the mistakes of net perceptions and firefly. And so I think that's an important important lesson to an entrepreneur. If you're going into an area that has dead bodies in front of you you better research them you better know who they are you better know what happened and you better make sure that you screw it up you at least screw it up in a way which none of us could have predicted. Yeah that's the only way you're going to get a hall pass on that. Well let's talk about talk about some of the entrepreneurship activities. So you're in that sector where you're feeding the seed and the super angels in the first rounds. Early stage guys and it's a good fit. What about some of the philosophies on like. The firms out there there's a there's two there's two philosophies. I was just talking to an entrepreneur here you you met on the way out. A street speaker text and you know they're at seven you know under a million dollars in financing. Series A. yeah and then you got in the news yesterday color forty one million dollars bill in the win. Right and then flip board a hundred million dollars you cut this is these are guys that we know I mean there are yeah our generation are really a little bit you know around the same time and. Certainly they have pedigree. So remember the old days the arms race mentality right when the sector at all costs right and that's kind of what's going on here I mean some of the command that kind of money. There's actually an auction going on what do you make of that I mean bubble is it arms race. So so rich Melman inside a bullpen did a fascinating analysis. He looked at the full. Portfolio of. He took about twenty of the best super angels by the way the super angels are all different summer micro VCs summer buying options etc. So so first off super angel is a weird word but. It's everybody from Union Square and foundry on one side to first round and flagging but they take the top twenty or so of these guys and look at their portfolios. What's amazing about their portfolios is the unlike ten and twenty years ago in prior tech bubbles. There are not twenty companies doing the same thing. When you categorize them yeah ten percent are an ad tech ten percent are a director consumer etc. But like forty percent are one offs. That is this is I think one of the first times in the history of venture that forty percent of the deal flow is a one off unique business idea that there aren't thirty guys going to do. And I think that the importance of that to what happens in this next stage of the tech boom. We don't know what that means yet. Is back in the day. Well we we need to just we're venture firm we need to disk drive company okay so your venture firm you've got your disk drive company so not twenty venture. That also created the herd mentality everyone talks about with venture. Yep. I mean I was on a talk on here in the cube and I don't think I actually put in a blog post but. I called. The era of entrepreneurship like with open source and low cost entry. With cloud computing and now mobility. The manure of innovation where you know in the manure that's being out in the marketplace mushrooms are growing out of it right and these you don't know what's going to be they'll look the same. In a way so how do you tell the good ones from the bad ones so it's hard right so you have a lot of one we have a lot more activity. Hence angel list hence the super angels right so. So the economics and the deal flow are all there. The question is how do you get them from being just. A one off looked good on paper. Flame out. The reality. Yeah well like. In my opinion seed stage investing is about investing in people. And I think when big firms try and do seed stage investing there's an impedance mismatch a lot of times because they want more evidence they want to know did the market work to the management. And this is this is an early stage venture. And am I going to want to go in a fox hole with this person. And in many ways the good super angels are instinctive investors were betting on people that they want to be in the fox hole with. And yeah did they do it before. Do they know how to hire people. Is the market reasonably interesting. But guess what they're probably going to pivot three times. So wait a minute. At the end of the day you got to invest in people later stage venture is not you can look at discounted cash flows you can look at mezzanine financing you can do traditional measures. But if you're going to invest in two people who have a prototype and need $500,000. You're investing in people at that point. What do you think about the the angel is on a big fan of and recently was added thanks to a navy out there. But even though I'm not I don't really co-invest with anyone else other than myself. Maybe you guys with bullpen. But but if that's a phenomenon you don't have angel list which is opening up doors for deal flow. Companies are getting funded. Naval's getting a ton of activity navy doing great job with venture hacks. You get white comedy which I called the community college of startups. They bring in like they open the door and I mean that actually good way don't mean that negatively. I mean they're giving access to entrepreneurs that never had access to the market. Right. And now you have Paul Graham kind of giving the halo effect or throwing the holy water on on on certain styles and they get magically funded. Right. But yesterday they had an event there. They're packed. Right. I've heard from V.C. saying I'm not invited because I didn't wasn't part of that original investment class. So it seems that white comedy is getting full. Yeah. So do you see that do you agree is there will there be an overflow white comedy or you know kind of like Ted conference has you know Ted will be you know white comedy or Boston little franchises will be like Barkamp or sure. I mean look and look look at tech stars. They franchise. They was over there with David station New York. There's tech stars New York after those tech stars Boulder and tech stars Seattle. There is no doubt in my mind that right now there is an over investment in the seed stage meaning that there is a little bit of a seed bubble going on. That's not necessarily bad though because in terms of raw dollars there's not a bubble yet. Rory who's over at it's frothy. It smells like a bubble. It looks like a bubble but when you look at the mechanics when you look at the actual total dollars it's not a bubble. Rory who has a recent horror it's been said that that it's a boom not a bubble. Yeah so don't be confused. It looks like the bubbles and booms kind of look together the same right. I actually I'm not quite sure I have the exact data right but here's the quick summary. If you take a look at venture capital investment as a percent of GDP historically it's been something like point one percent of GDP in the bubble back in ninety nine it went to one percent something like it went ten X higher. Right now we're still at point one percent but since it's very much centered around the seed stage investing you see this frothiness in the seed but until that number goes from point one percent of GDP back up to one percent there's no real bubble because the tonnage of money hasn't come in yet. And so it's starting but this is what a tech boom feels like the early stages are excitement and lots of ideas and lots of flowers blooming and then the big money comes in. Because John I'll bet your your brother and your sister and your mom haven't invested in a tech startup but back in ninety nine there's no public market that supports that but in a way that's the good and bad star beans. Yeah there's no fraud going on and most of the companies that are out there whether they're lifestyle business or seed or bullpen funded are actually generating income that the entrepreneur he has in here earlier Mike was saying that he got a business deal so people are kind of like saw the old bubble and said shoot I don't want to do that again I got to have at least revenue. Right. And so companies and seeing this start that would cash so you know that because you invest in it but you know pinkest was getting some cash flow in the door from day one. That's right. So that company was company was profitable the first day it started basically. So talk about you know so I'm with Paul Martino by the way with bullpen capital entrepreneur wrote the patents on social networking which he sold to Cisco when they sold the company now with bullpen capital huge dynamic if you're a company out there this is exactly the positive dynamic you want to see because mainly you know Dave McClore Jeff Clavier Mike Maples have been kind of getting their butts handed to him in the press about Super Angels not having the juice to kind of go anywhere and it's been kind of a negative press there. So you know this is the kind of void that's been filled by you guys to show the market that look at this there's a roadmap here. So even though that you know the McClore's and Clavier's don't have big funds that there's a path to follow on financing so that the VCs can't shut them down and I've heard some VCs say that so look a lot of traditional venture guys would like to say that you know this little disruption we nipped it in the butt and it stopped after the seed stage but that's not the history of disruptions the history of disruptions are they start from the bottom then they get ecosystem support and then they grow and then they disrupt the incumbents and I think we're halfway there. So the Angel gate thing that Arrington reported on was interesting because you know essentially what happened there is there's a lot of infighting Ron Conway was not happy you can't be happy about competition I mean this competition that increases prices right so you know in the short term prices have been inflated on valuations true or false that's true but but but I think I think the whole way Angel gate was reported was absurd the most pro-entrepreneurial venture people perhaps in the history of the business are the guys who were supposedly at those tables I mean Mike Maples Jeff Clavier Josh Kaufman but Ron Conway fired his guy that was there I understand suppose again supposedly that was PR right these are the most pro-entrepreneurial venture guys in the history of the business so I think that turned into something that it never was yeah well I mean that's the thing you know for content producers who want page views they got to create some drama and you know SiliconANGLE doesn't have any banner ads on our site quick plug for us we are motivated by content not page views so thanks for coming in today but seriously I mean there's a black cloud over the super angels and has been since Angel gate I've heard privately from VCs that ahhh favorite super angels there's been kind of a scuttlebutt there um misaligned just rumors I I completely overblown and you know their business model threatens the incumbents and you know someone needed someone needed a piece of fodder to start a you know start a tech crunch discussion right there's no doubt that the market is in need in need of a new ecosystem for the early stage because individual angels traditionally were wealthy individuals but now you have people with more experience like yourselves and entrepreneurs from Google and Facebook etcetera right coming out and doing some things okay so next topic more on a personal kind of professional note okay last final question is I know you gotta run appreciate your time you're a technologist a lot of folks don't know that your hardcore computer science guy and our motto is looking at angles computer science meet social science right in your wheelhouse so with that just kind of final parting question what gets you excited technically right now I mean obviously you have roots in both compside and social you're on Zynga's early investor roster you've got a bullpen capital you're looking at a lot of deals outside of that you as a computer scientist geek what gets you jazz what do you see in the horizon that's not yet on the mega trend roster that kind of you can't put your finger on it truly but you really get a good feeling well so I think you'll be disappointed with this answer because I think it's now across the chasm to start being one of those mega trends it's called consumerization of enterprise and that's now the buzzword for it but what is it really mean and why do I think it's for real look you've got cool self-service applications for everything you can go do home banking by logging into a portal you can go to an ATM you can go do these things but you know go bring a new laptop into your big stodgy Fortune 500 company and you know it's like getting a rectal exam right you know we got to install this we got to give you this private key that's TSA it's like going through TSA exactly IT inside of big Fortune 500 companies is going to stop being this gatekeeper to new technology I mean look how long do you think it'll be until pick your favorite Fortune 500 company the IT people know how to deal with the iPad too but how many people bought an iPad too into the office already everyone and so this to me is going to be the big next decade the next decade are going to be self-service offerings for the enterprise getting around a very frustrating gatekeepers inside of you know the IT department etc. and that's going to lead to an awesome boom of everything from security to auditing to compliance etc. that's the converges equation Paul Martino my friend entrepreneur great guy venture capitals now on the good side helping the seeds Superangel micro VCs great to have you consumerization of IT that's hits the cloud mobile social hits everything so that was buzzword compliant on that great job great to have you know you're busy got to have you in again thanks so much for your time that's a wrap thank you very much great thank you John