 Okay, we're back. We're live. We're here. I'm Jay Fidel. It's the three o'clock rock and we are talking with Mary and Sasaki Who was an attorney? And she is a host of life in the law which which appears on think tech at 1 o'clock on Wednesday, right? And we are delighted to have her here on our new inaugural second inaugural show. That is Trump week Where we're gonna report every week on what the president Trump is doing Okay, let's report on yet. We had yes. We have a lot of work to do I mean if you pick up the New York Times every day the first 20 articles maybe more are all about Trump They they swore they were gonna cover him and they are covering him and I think it behooves all the press including us You know to cover him. We got to do that to protect our democracy really as never before so The subject of the show last time was a new use for executive orders and you and I were discussing that briefly a moment ago And I'd like to you know touch base with you on that but the the main subject of our show here today now is Can protest? Prevent a national decline And I like to talk to you about protest in this country Protest back in the 60s protects protest since that time and protest now as as we are seeing every every day really every day Yeah, but you had some thoughts about executive orders and indeed President Trump is using them as no president has used them before and the fact that You know, it's very interesting to compare what Barack Obama did because he had essentially no choice Congress wasn't giving him anything and he had to get stuff done So he acted by executive order and for the lack of any statement of the Constitution or in the statutes about the limits of Power on executive order, which actually is a flaw in our system in my opinion You know, that's what he did for two or three hundred executive orders now Trump is a little different because He has a Congress that would go along Well, you know the immigration would they have gone along with this maybe so maybe so But it takes time and he doesn't want to spend that time He wants it right now He wants to have that that primacy and he knows that it takes time to do Congress and it takes time to resolve things in the courts And there's a risk in Congress to some extent and there's a larger risk in the courts for him so he acts summarily and We have a new a new model developing that terrifying yet summarily summarily Terrifying I mean without consulting is United States Attorney Department of Justice in fact Finding that the acting What do you call it the acting deputy deputy deputy associate deputy attorney general attorney general Disagrees with him. He didn't consult with her. She noticed it and then she reacted So my point though is that we it was seeing new expansion of that power now your thoughts, please I'm my thoughts. I would like to see a more deliberate President I don't I don't need to have a show every night With respect to some kind of broad idea that he sold the public when he was running for office. He's no longer running for office he's now governing and He's still Trying to please the crowds and so so he moved up the date that he was going to point the Supreme Court Justice He on a Friday night without without really thinking it through signs executive order and didn't notify any of any Immigrant people from immigration or the airports and no one knew how to do it or what who it applied to and how it was going to become accomplished like I think you know This guy's got his finger on the button like I don't want to summarily like a guy who Governs by fiat to be so close to the to the nuclear button if if you know what I well all the limitations On his powers under you know the executive order technique as it is evolving now. I don't know what I Guess it have to be Don't we have bounds of powers in this country not anymore? Yes, well, you know the reason I say not anymore is because First of all the three parts of government were tasked with doing their own own own thing, but they were tasked also with being integrated so If you if you can't work if the president of the Congress just can't work to the Congress Just gonna stonewall the president then the separation of powers isn't working because there's nothing is working. It's not working Yeah, right exactly. So and and the Supreme Court has gotten so politicized And it just seems to be an extension of the executive office. I know that sounds terrible, but you could pick out each Each justice and how they will go and how they will vote by who appointed them. So, you know, I don't think It's working so well And and I think the executive branch is becoming increasingly Powerful and you know what I think what happens when the executive branch becomes increasingly powerful Hitler They become dictators. Mm-hmm. Yeah That's not the first time we've heard that rounding up strange Strangers and that sounds familiar around going to sanctuary cities and rounding up people You know Not taking action against some of the bases of religion. Yeah, exactly and and just doing it without the authority of Congress or You know consideration by Congress. I Think the executive power is pretty strong right now. Yeah, okay. Let's go to our main topic protest Your sister marched in Washington. Mm-hmm. You would have watched March 2. I'm sure. Oh, no No, here's what happened with him in Washington. I went to fly to Washington to March and an airline which will remain nameless Delayed my flight and as a consequence of that I missed my connecting flight to Washington so they put me on another flight to Washington and That one was three hours late. So I I spent the entire March in Washington in JFK airport So but I'm but I'm I'm taking legal action against them Okay, but I know but everybody I know because I was part of the court state coordinate nating committee with respect to the March on Washington, you know, I followed it very closely while I was there I'm so very happy to report Brian Schott showed up Colleen Hanabusa has at the great cracks And this is an organized March though. It was all good Organized in two months. I mean two months is a long time given the way things move these days Marianne I suppose that's right. I mean how much time how much notice that we have at that executive order on Friday, right virtually none Right, so you want to respond to that you really got to get your act together in way less than two months So I mean I'm talking about so, you know what what is the appropriate kind of reaction if you or People in general or a lot of people in general disagree with what the president is doing by way of these expanded Executive orders and whether that's that works for example And you know, did it really work to have the marsh in March in Washington? Did it really work to have the March all over last Saturday? In all these various cities did it work did it achieve anything? Well, you know, I think you know, it's difficult. I Mean, it's it's certainly not gonna achieve The goal the goals that they were marching for first of all I think the woman's March was particularly to protect Reproductive rights. Oh, but everything got swept into it every no. Yeah. Yes, everything did but um, you know the impact I think it had a tremendous impact. What was the impact? Well people from every country participated every state That's participation, but did did one member of Congress did one member of Congress? No, but you know what they're gonna change I feel emboldened now. This is where the this is what's gonna change The midterm election watch the midterm election very carefully You can't have this many people in the streets and with this consistent a message and not have some some change in Congress during the midterms I really think that's very important That's what we're aiming for because look is Donald Trump gonna be oh There's you know, 400,000 people in Washington, so I'm not gonna do what I want to do never happen The pressure has to be consistent. It has to be Long-term. Let me take you on a trip back to 1968 or so. Okay, there were mobs in the streets Yeah, these students were rioting. There was even violence in Kent State, right? Somebody was killed over the issue and You know, it was very clear that the public was protesting On a continuing basis so lots of students, but also everybody I mean, buddy I knew was protesting and yet the war went on for four or five years after that it did But what effect did it have? Well? I think it compelled Lyndon Johnson not to run again in 19 there's a whole story about Lyndon Johnson and the war and his attempt to settle it and Richard Nixon recently, you know revealed, right? That Richard Nixon scuttled his attempts Johnson's attempts to settle the war But I didn't know that actually Yes, so that only a couple weeks ago. It's remarkable but but putting that aside though fact is that all those protests all those people in the street and they were Passionate and they were burning flags and all this that didn't stop the war for five years Where was Congress were they sleeping? Well, you know, I don't I still think it was a victory. I mean I Don't think the world would have I mean we're in a war. How long is all war gone on ten years or something? We're in an everlasting war Vietnam could have easily been the same It could have been an everlasting war there was a draft They could have just feeding people and keeping you know keeping up they were losing so they could have just kept fighting and fighting and fighting and I think if it had not been for the people it would not would not have been as resolved in as quickly as five years And I know that sounds, you know, but my view is five years is much too long I agree. I agree, but but I think that that's what it took But I'll let me give you another example of national protest. What about the Civil Rights March in 1964 right or 63 with with Martin Luther King you can't that had a tremendous impact. I think on particularly Caucasian people who are unaware of the of the situation for voting for African-Americans and I think I think that that March really You know, wasn't wasn't he murdered in there somewhere? Yes, but what year was he murdered? He was murdered in 1969 Nine or eight one of those nine. I think to me that had a huge effect. That wasn't a protest That was a murder. No, I know but people were really really bothered but the civil rights movement Accomplished what it accomplished by protest it accomplished the rights that You know the right to vote for African-Americans in places They could could not have voted or the poll tax and so so it was solely accomplished by protest I mean look Gandhi I mean I hate to harken back to Gandhi but it works it works if you but you have to keep involved yet to keep up the pressure You have to have a broad range of people Focused on the same goal. That's kind of going to be a little bit of a mind in anticipation of this show I posed that issue to a friend of mine And she indicated that there is a risk that you can you can go soft on protest What I mean is you can keep on protesting and protesting and protesting and after a while people get used to it They get inoculated somehow and they don't take it seriously anymore. All those guys. They're always protesting I think that's right. You lose you lose the the vitality of it, right? If you keep doing that So so the impact wanes the impact can definitely wane if you protest about every little thing But let me tell you there's gonna be coming a LGBTQ protest in Washington over gay pride weekend and you'll see the turnout there and it'll be big because the gay community Is just Livid with Mike Pence and they just what will have nothing to do with Donald Trump and Mike Pence and and and that'll be I think That'll be a very influential march as well. I mean, yeah, you get fatigued March fatigue. Yeah, sure, but you know Jay, I've been marching for like I don't know 35 years or something and I'm still going. There's always a core group that will keep going Yeah, that's that's Marianne Sasaki. She she's been marching for 35 years and giving away her age for just I'm March for the member of the Lincoln Brigade that really shows my really shows her age We take a short break and contemplate that thought Aloha, I'm Carl Campania host of think-tech Hawaii's Movers shakers and reformers. I Hope you join us over the next several weeks as we take a deep dive into biofuels in Hawaii and Explore the alternative fuels supply chain necessary for the local and global transition towards transportation fuel sustainability Join us as we have good conversations With our farmers our producers our conversion technologies our investors and our legislators as we try to achieve our Transportation sustainability goals See you soon. Thank you for watching think-tech. I'm Grace Chang the new host for global connections You can find me here live every Thursday at 1 p.m We'll be talking to people around the islands or visiting the islands who are connected in various aspects of global affairs So please tune in and Aloha and thanks for watching We can hardly wait to get back Mary and Sasaki a lawyer and also a Marcher and a host. Oh, I'm yes, so I'm definitely a marcher So we're talking today in our Trump Trump week we're talking about protests as a way to deal with things that a president does that you don't like and You know, how do you do that and does it work in this country? We have so huge infrastructure of government with three branches a lot of process a lot of you know A lot of things that are hard for people to understand actually on how decisions get made The streets you do occupy Wall Street, okay, right occupy Wall Street hit the press And all these cities were involved and embroiled in Occupy Wall Street and Occupy other things too It sort of spread to other things what effect any effect at all No, I think Occupy Wall Street it petered out for sure and Partly I think it wasn't a broad based enough movement. I mean it was a very slim segment of of the left and This is different this is grandma's this is you know, your sister you are your aunt your cousin Little kids Little kids don't know one end from the other. No, of course. They don't know I'm not but but I I always find it Uplifting to see grandma marching and mommy and the Mary and is that you if you have a lot of people a big demographic a lot of age groups a lot of groups and diversified group if you write Then that group will be more that voices louder their voices louder more impressive And maybe that will have an effect. Who will the effect be on because the people who go jubilation over Trump? I love that term, you know the jubilation T chord exactly We're all we're else Little Abner or something The people, you know, they're not affected trust me They're not affected by all those women marching in all those cities They believe the Trump is right and they're gonna stick to their guns, you know, they're not changing I think politicians are unnerved How about judges a Judges beyond that I think judges are beyond politics, but their their politics takes place in a more rare Is not really necessarily politics. It's the voice of the people. It's a statement Right of I guess how the people feel I didn't have to roll This is a country in which the the views of the people are theoretically very important. Well, I would argue in the 1960s Even before the Supreme Court heard the voice of the people with respect to African-American rights and Actively tried to participate in that movement. I mean, that's why it's an activist court called so-called the activist court Now I don't think I think that the Supreme Court justice is a far too removed from The needs and the wants of the people and I think that that's that's a hard statement Yeah, you know, but I do think that's true. I mean, I read the paper, but maybe reading the paper doesn't tell you what's going on in the street Yeah, I don't think so. I mean that you reading the New York Times and actually not knowing what's gonna be happening It doesn't see an end tell you doesn't Those news channels don't they tell you Video of what's going on in the street? No, they do they do but but you know That's the court is not supposed to be occupied with such and I said this on my show earlier with such mundane affairs They they they're their occupation is the larger project that is American democracy, right? I mean, they're not really supposed to be the people on the street are talking about larger Issues, you know the future of the country American values that the future of the American system Well, yeah, they are but in pretty broad strokes the the the Supreme Court takes it on in smaller bites and like in a more Elevated in a more elevated language, but yeah, I mean, yeah, I do think I think you know the Constitution guarantees our right to Speech free speech it guarantees our right to congregate and I think the forefathers understood that this would be a very important part of our democracy and and I needless to say so is freedom of the press and you know Donald Trump and his ill keep telling the press to shut up and You know to say the New York time, you know trying to disseminate these alternate facts and Undermine the press and every every juncture and you know, I just would like to remind people that it It's the the right to press was a hard-fork constitutional right and not available everywhere Yeah, right and and and it should be treated with the respect that it deserves. I really should it I don't like the way the Trump The Trump administration is treating members of the press because the members of the press are You know essential to the democracy one of the things about a protest is the press covers the protest, right? But when you question whether there were x number of people there or x number of people somewhere else You know like at the inauguration day issue about what size of the crowd and all that stuff Then the president has the power through Twitter and through his own news statements to diminish the effect of the process Yeah, and Steve Bannon who is now Replace the Joint Chiefs of Staff as has his adviser who is who is a press person He's a you know Breitbart is a you know alt-right as they say press venue wants to undermine The press and wants to wants all facts to be a jumble and anything could be the truth like it's Could be true that Trump had the biggest inauguration ever or it could be true that the woman's March Was the smallest you're making the case that if I give you millions of people around the country all speaking up from various Demographics that ought to have an effect on say legislators for example. I think it will but okay if I diminish the That gets telescope by the press If they don't cover it it didn't happen really for the public. That's true so if you know Trump has a way to Diminish the credibility of the press diminish the information of the press Press to you know what guy like to diminish the effects of the press a free press Hitler You know people saying that more and more But I mean he's doing it's the same MO You know the first right up shut the press up because you know what we can't have that we can't have that You know lack of control in an unmanageable environment where we can't control the message control the message But see but that's the reality here is that he's working against the effect that you're relying on The effect of having millions of people out there who will affect the next a midterm elections He should be I mean he should be working well He's afraid but he's also working pretty efficiently at it. I think all things considered Nixon did Nixon did you you compare Nixon to Trump I? Nick I look fondly back upon Nixon Trump makes me look fondly back Over the good old No, but I mean when it came to demonstration stuff Nixon had his ways he had his enemies list and his ways of undermining Protesters and the press and so you know he he it's not a new thing that a president should Target protesters as a as a as problematic for their administration All right, but it does diminish the power of The protest to have you know its size and shape and and and its intentions You know criticized and and so forth. So I'm still looking for a way That people in general can speak out they can write to their legislator Even more effective if the if the letters come in in big numbers writing and calling There's a bit very big movement to stop Betsy DeVos from being the secretary of education and There were she has a problem by the way. So there is some success here. Yeah. Yeah, the part of it was Calling the the three votes that were needed in order to you know in order for her to become the secretary The one thing the marchers are doing is they're very well organized at the grassroots level with respect to Politics and how to use new media to affect Congress people or Congress people and senators and so on so I think the midterm election is going to be a big upset I really do okay, but let me let me offer this thought and that is looking back to the campaign itself when there were incidents of violence At various campaign rallies or competing rallies If not violence then bullying And name-calling cat, you know and all that that happened a number of times I'm not sure all of them were reported some of them. Maybe we're minimal But it did happen well enough to see you see it in the press every now and And I you know in my view and maybe other people might differ that a lot of this was fomented by things that Donald Trump said In the course of the campaign He stirred up his crowd stirred up his crowd and and that led to fisticuffs a number of occasions And that's you know, I guess also a political trick that we've seen used elsewhere Oh, yeah in order to provoke people So my question to you is aren't you concerned Mary am that as these protests go by and I Surmised there will be there'll be other offensive things this president Protests and the protests may very well grow in size number and intensity Okay, don't aren't you worried that those protests can or with his help Get violent get violent. Okay. Well, first of all, I'd like to say that I'm a pacifist in the vein of Daniel Berrigan So I never expect violence from you So that so that that that's sort of my my take I I think red revolutions can be bloodless, but I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid of being attacked or being arrested or wouldn't stop you from protest No, no, you can't cow me that way I mean, I think that's a very poor way to go because I think that just emboldens people I mean, John Lewis is the perfect example, you know, they constantly played The tape of him getting beat up during the civil rights movement and you know, that stirred people up that didn't that didn't Make people afraid. They made they made them more determined. So I mean, you know, if you're gonna if you're gonna stand up You've got to stand up. No, suppose. It's a gray area, you know Suppose it's wrong, but it's not as wrong as some of the other things that he has done You know that he finds I wouldn't call it a moderate result But he finds a result that is not as as as wild as some of the things we've seen him do Would you protest in that case? Would you not protest because this is relatively speaking not nearly as wild as some other things that he's done That's such a hard question because you know, it's sort of the same things. Well The the bar has been put pushed over this way So now what would have been during the Obama administration an affront Guantanamo, right? Not closing Guantanamo from the front to any, you know left upstanding lefty like me That's the so many worst things that could happen. That seems like a lesser thing, right? So I Actually think no, I wouldn't I wouldn't protest every every little move I think strategic protesting is much more effective I don't think you know if he I don't know what he could do that it would bother me, but it wouldn't bother me so much I Think we need to be strategic with our project and the operative word is we because I think with social media Organization can happen fairly quickly Mm-hmm, and I I would predict for you that over the next few years Organizations will emerge in our country that call people together for this protest kind of thing For appropriate measures for appropriate issues for appropriate offensive, you know Decisions by the president. We'll see how we'll see how it goes. Yeah, but we have to cover it You know why because we are committed to cover Trump on Trump week. Okay. Thank you, Mary