 I remember my first Taco Bell I I'm just now remembering when I was an intern at KRon, which was the NBC affiliate was my first internship and I was so broke You would get like $25 a day for being an intern But like my parking tickets usually were more than the $25 a day. Oh, no, right and the where the The station is in San Francisco is near a variety of like It's well, it's near the tenderloin. So it's like Anyway, but I used to yeah, it was like what can I eat that's almost free And so I would get like a thing of rice and just like douse it in soy sauce and eat that with chopsticks And like I remember the people that you know, I was interning for would be like that's really unhealthy I'm like, what's unhealthy about it, you know fills me up. It was $2. Yeah It could be worse. It could be a lot worse, you know, it could have been like, you know Just like ground up candy bars or something like that I need some top ramen for breakfast guys, this is a step up my dad used to go into Restaurants when he was in the Navy in Florida and order tea and then take the ketchup the salt the pepper And put it in the water instead of the tea and make soup Tomato soup Yeah, that's that's the kind of thing that you that you learn being in the military though, right? How do you make instant soup with ketchup? You know and then he went on to become a food scientist Oh, really? Yeah, he created the diet drink seago Wow, probably building on all of those years Wow, what is what is seago tastes like? How do you spell seago seago? It tasted kind of like Slightly chocolate flavored Chalky milk. Oh, so my grandma that sounds good It wasn't bad. We used to drink it as kids. Was it carbonated? No. No, it was like a milk drink I hate to break up this fascinating discussion I'm excited about this milk drink situation. All right, but yeah, let's talk about yes We could talk more after the But oh one other thing annally just so you know like at the top of the rundown in case you'll see me highlight color Colors that's just basically color coding for tom and started to move forward. So red move to the next topic Uh orange is like, oh, you should start rapping Gray Yeah, that is very fancy Oh, and then i'll need control, uh I'm giving you control right now roger chang Here you go Okay three two Today's tech news show is brought to you by people like me to learn more visit daily tech news show dot com slash support This is the daily tech news for friday november 17th from dts headquarters in los angeles on tom merit And from studio feline at the beach. I am sarah lane And very excited to have back with us again editor at large from ars technica and author of the book autonomous annally newitz, how's it going? Good. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming back and uh, you guys at ars technica have been doing a great cool thing called ars technica live Uh, and this week you were talking about encryption. So we're going to give you a little sneak peek about what's coming Uh in the in the next video from you guys a little later in the show. All right Let's start though with a few tech things you should know Facebook rebranded its mentions app. It's now called facebook creator and it's all new Uh, it's the facebook creator is the app they announced at vidcon in june creator includes a live creative kit So the ideas they'll give you some the ability to do intros and outros to your broadcast Also collects in one inbox all the facebook instagram comments all your messenger comments so you can look at them easier Kind of forgot about the mentions app to be honest Nobody ever mentions it EA has made another change in star wars battlefront 2 game right before official launch temporarily removing in-game purchases Of crystals using real money to buy crystals could allow people to get in-game credits Which otherwise had to be earned by gameplay EA's just throwing up its hands. They're like, yeah, fine. No crystals at all. Forget it. Everybody gets them Uh, the nonprofit global cyber alliance a nonprofit organization founded by law enforcement and some research organizations has announced a new independent dns service called quad nine Because the dns ip that you add is 9 9 9 9 google's is 8 8 8 this one's 9 9 9 9 Free service launched a partnership with ibm and packet clearing house It promises not to log users And it will use info from 19 threat feeds to block malicious domains Their eventual aim is to make this a sort of an internet standard a de facto standard that all isps and services could use Now let's move on to some more top stories sarah Oh, okay tom tesla unveiled its electric semi truck. We heard about it. Now. It's a reality has a range of 500 miles On a charge capable of pulling 36 287 kilograms the maximum allowed on u.s roads Walmart told cnbc It will be one of the first companies to test pilot the new semi truck Tesla also showed off a new high-end sports car with a range of 620 miles on a charge and zero to 100 uh Miles per hour in 4.2 seconds. No price or release date were announced for either vehicle though This is one of the things that bugs me about tesla. I love a lot of things about tesla But they they make a big deal out of announcements. They're really good at it But they don't give you any information. We don't know when this is coming We know what the price is they throw a sports car into this when really an electric semi truck is pretty significant on its own So I was kind of happy when I saw walmart saying we're going to test it Although they don't have any timeline for that from what I could tell Either at least this does give me some confidence that this is a real product that's going to hit the road Sometime and companies actually are using these trucks now, right? There was a test in october from embark Which was driving uh refrigerators, uh out to colorado. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so I think Interestingly, I guess trucks may turn out to be the killer app for autonomous driving I would think so for autonomous driving particularly not just electric I mean electric is actually a little harder Because of the range and the power you need to pull things. So 500 miles is acceptable It's really not what you want in a semi, but it's acceptable But once you throw autonomy in there, which this tesla truck also has a ton of Then it becomes really compelling because That takes a lot of the pressure off drivers and you can do the tandem things. I think embark was doing that too They've done that in germany before as well. So yeah, this is pretty pretty interesting Apple's upcoming home pod was originally slated for sale in december But today the company says it'll miss the 2017 holiday shopping season Because home pod is not going to be available until early 2018 speculation as to why there's a delay Uh is just speculation, but everybody thinks it's that Siri is Things hard somehow that it's just it's hard to get it to work the way they want because it's a smart speaker. This is apple smart speaker Well as a as a new owner of a smart speaker myself, um, and I've talked about this extensively You know, I still find the whole thing Sort of amusing sort of annoying because half the time when I'm talking to somebody on the phone Or I don't know talking to myself or talking to my cats Alexa's like what what do you want? when i'm not talking to her at all, so If apple wants that to be a more seamless experience, I could see why the company is like Let's make it better because home pod is going to be more expensive than a lot of the other stuff on offer that's comparable, right? That's head It's going to disappoint a lot of people That wanted this for the holidays I'll give apple some credit If it comes out and ends up being a good product, especially for saying, you know what? Yeah, we could push product out the door and make a lot of money because it's holiday shopping season But we we are not satisfied with it. So we're not going to do that I mean, we'll we'll see we'll see I mean, I think it's I think a lot of that has to do with the price point um, you know if home pod doesn't stand out as A drastically better speaker that people want to spend more money on Just because you know what google has and what amazon has like they're great sellers You know, it's it's not like they're not flying off shelves already um, you know apple doesn't want to have a speaker on offer that doesn't sell a lot of units They want it to be above and beyond Yeah, and you get those little ones from amazon and google, right? So so your only option with apple is going to be the most expensive one Speaking of apple kgi analysts projects that the 2018 iphone will have faster pre 5g Baseband chips with 70 to 80 of them from intel and the rest From qualcomm fast company reports that apple is working with intel to incorporate 5g modems and future versions of the iphone Now qualcomm has a more advanced 5g modem However, as we've discussed here on dtsns apple has been reducing its use of qualcomm parts And the two companies are engaged in several lawsuits over licensing fees Yeah, so i mean There's there's a lot of reports out there that apple is designing its own baseband modems too that it might be working with microtech But they are deaf. They are definitely playing hardball with qualcomm Uh right now kgi is pretty reliable in these sorts of Projections i'm not sure about fast company sources, but it does seem to to fit the facts Here's the thing if apple does successfully move away from moving using more qualcomm parts How bad does this hurt qualcomm? I mean granted the majority of phones sold or are android and the majority of android phones Are still going to use the qualcomm parts. So it's not going to torpedo them, but it's going to it's going to hurt It's not good for the qualcomm usfcc voted to overhaul the lifeline plan That's the plan that gives nine dollars and 25 cents a month Discount on phone or internet service to households who are at or near the poverty line Households on tribal lands can receive an additional 25 dollars a month But the overhaul will limit the tribal lands discount to rural areas If you're in an urban area of a tribal land, you wouldn't get it anymore The the idea the fcc says is that you have Access to more options if you're not in a rural area Fcc is also proposing limiting the discounts to owned and operated isps. That means The more affordable services the mvno's You know the cricket wireless's of the world would not qualify you couldn't get a subsidy You can only get a subsidy with the big ones at&t t-mobile Etc that is a proposal for the most of the u.s It is already in effect for tribal lands So not only that to be in a rural area, but you can't use metro pc s or cricket or virgin You're gonna have to go you're gonna be limited in your choice In light of the gao findings that the lifeline program is losing money to fraud The fcc is also considering putting a hard spending cap on the entire program anyway And just saying if the program ends up spending more than this amount We'll just stop subsidizing everybody. What kind of fraud are we talking about? people Deceiving the program into thinking they deserve the subsidy Got it Which yeah, it's hard to know how much of that fraud is really happening It just to me this just sounds catastrophic for people who are in remote areas who probably are among the people who need this most You know who need access to information. They're out, you know far away from places where there's a lot of people People who are on tribal lands absolutely need this kind of information. And so it's really Seems like an incredibly short-sighted Thing for the fcc to be doing, you know, just to be It's you know, and the idea what they what agit pi and his crony is that fcc have said is that Well, but if we free up this money what this means is that, you know, these big companies like say Comcast will be motivated to build out Uh more fiber into these remote areas because you know, they won't have to rely on subsidies And that doesn't even make any sense, you know, there's no what's the motivation for a huge company to build out fiber to a remote Area, I just don't I don't understand the economics that they're suggesting at all No, I agree with you the math doesn't work out if you're saying One of the reasons you're not building fiber to the rural areas is not enough Demand taking the subsidy away from urban residents that already have access to more choices Doesn't increase the motivation to go build out fiber into the rural areas And the other thing they said was if we limit the subsidies to only going to the people who build infrastructure Then they'll be more likely to build infrastructure in more places Which I could see that at least on paper that could work out a little more like okay If they guess if they're getting more money in because you're forcing customers to choose them Then that might help them build it out But again, I don't think this program is big enough to really move that needle It's not it's not going to move that needle And it's ultimately going to mean that people who are in these already underserved areas have even fewer choices Which is you know and the cheaper choices Generally the mvno's the ones that are being considered to be kicked out of the program Are the ones that don't cost as much nine dollars and 25 cents might get you an actual full plan On an mvno where it's definitely not on at&t or even to t-mobile Yeah, I mean it actually sounds like a pretty naked scheme just to bring money into the really big isps And so you know and and into the really big cable companies and things like that. So, you know, that's uh, You know, that's a little depressing. Yeah, I mean, I I understand that you need you need to cut costs places Uh, this just doesn't seem like a very smart way to do it. Yeah Some news coming right around the time we uh shot the show yesterday mashable has sold To zipp davis what yeah for 50 million dollars. This is coming from the wall street journal All-citing anonymous sources now Not more than more than just dropping the bucket 50 million dollars But it's 20 of mashable's valuation of 250 million Which was following a 15 million round of funding last year led by time one or so Least on paper you could see this as Perhaps a bit of a fire sale Back in september the wall street journal reported that the company had held extensive discussions Uh with another company pros even sat dot one about a sale as well. So mashable has been Shopping itself around for some time. That's not a huge secret, but zipp davis tom Yeah, uh, so yeah, we're not getting any comments from zipp and mashable on this But it's it's definite that there's a sale the 50 million price is the part we're not sure that's that's what the sources are telling us But even if it's even if it's a slightly more than 50 million I mean it had to be a lot for more for 50 million for this to make any sense Uh to me it it really does feel like a fire sale if that's the actual price and beyond that i'm just kind of pleasantly shocked That zipp davis who you know I was I was at zd tv when softbank decided to just dismember zipp data It's and sell it off in pieces to a bunch of different people and the magazine's portion is what this zipp davis is Uh is the you know the the descendant of Was about to go under roger you worked uh for zipp davis You know when they were struggling to just sort of continue to to be in existence And it didn't look good and and now they've actually turned it around to the point that they can pick up mashable Yeah, maybe at a bargain, but they they can buy another company I thought they were still working on the terms of you know What they settled with on the debtors in terms of you know renegotiating while they're dead So I mean to be honest this is like a 180 surprise like a ziff of all people Because it was uh, I mean I was back when I was over at d l tv and cranky yeeks Uh that I was at ziff and it was just like you know everything was like well don't use too many of those You know binder clips with there's only so many to go around I mean like it was like, you know There's that feeling that's what happens if you're really smart about binder clips eventually you have enough money to buy a mashable Eventually you can subsidize some kind of build out of the information infrastructure No, but you know ziff has been looking around for some kind of hit brand for a while You know like there were rumors that they were in the running to buy gawker media when that was up for sale and That didn't work out. And so I think they must have just figured You know, why not go one floor up in the same building and buy mashable. So they literally are in the same building Gawker media is sort of below. Yeah. Yeah, they're all kind of all in the little little little area right there in new york You know, I I do think that this is the end of an era I guess if anybody can turn mashable around at ziff davis Since they've done it with pc mag and and places like that But but sarah, I mean mashable used to be on top of the world covering this stuff Well, and you know valuation numbers are you know, they're they're they're conceptual Oftentimes, but it's such a it's it's so much lower than you know a 250 million dollar evaluation of just a year ago Which makes me think okay. Well, what was mashable doing differently as of late? And um, we talked about this a little bit yesterday. I guess it was in the post show That was video and mashable was doing a lot of video and doing it quite well and I think that's such a unproven model for a lot of Entities at this point and it leads me to believe that It wasn't as lucrative You know even given Crazy numbers on facebook that sort of thing For a company like mashable and I wonder how this will sort of be a domino effect for other publications that You would consider to be competitors Well, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com. We got a nice little shout out in the amazon Echo daily email is the most requested flash briefing So thank you for that. Thank you for all the requests Which of course you can get daily tech headlines on the amazon echo. You can get it at google home You can get it in the anchor app and just as a regular old podcast at daily tech headlines dot com All right, so let's talk encryption and the law now last friday. We were talking about uh rosenstein's comments Where he was being very nice and saying look, I understand that weakening encryption weakens it for everybody I understand The need for strong encryption to fight fraud saying all the right things But then as darin and I talked about at the end flipping it and say but we have to compromise I've been thinking about this a lot There used to be a power imbalance, right? So the feds felt like they could go to the phone company and say hey We need a pen register. We need a wire tap It was something that the feds could do with the phone company because only the phone company could do it The average person couldn't do it encryption Today is very egalitarian. It's frustrating to law enforcement because there is no power imbalance Everybody can have strong encryption. So one approach law enforcement has taken Is to try to argue that we should restore a power imbalance by getting something like a back door uh, however That's a myth the idea that if I have a back door key to your encryption I now have this power imbalance back doesn't work because You you you don't Control the key if you put a back door in you basically put a back door in for everybody so A natural more natural power imbalance would be computing power and it feels like that's kind of where the feds are reluctantly going to uh Getting enough expertise or enough research agency help or enough computing power to just Crack encryption on these phones and keep in mind. It's not just terrorists We're also talking about just general fraud and abuse where you're like, you know What this person was bribing someone if we could get into their phone. We could show that in a court of law Uh, but the problem with that approach if you don't have the back door, which sounds really easy and cheap Is that this other approach is costly? Uh, it's so to my mind, annalee This all starts to feel like it's about cost and either who pays or not wanting to pay It's definitely a huge issue and um earlier this week At ours technica live. Um, our guest was riana pfefferkorn who is the cryptography fellow at stanford's Center for internet and society and she's spent a number of years just researching How cryptography and the law intersect and sort of what the latest developments are and one of the things that's interesting is that in the wake of A landmark case which is apple versus fbi a few years ago when as you recall in sanbernadino There was a shooting and the feds wanted access to the iphone that belonged to the shooter And they went to apple. They actually made some mistakes. It's a really complicated case technically But they made some mistakes where they basically couldn't get into the guy's phone even though they probably should have been able to And so then they went to apple and they said look we need you to give us the password We need you to give us all this other kind of access Um and tim cook speaking for apple said no, we can't do that now with ios 8 There's all these reasons why that's not going to be possible Unless we were to leave this back door that you've been talking about Um, you know in the underlying code that is in all phones um Now the feds would love to have that and in the and basically that case Did not wind up creating any good case law According to rihanna And other legal scholars because of course it just wound up getting sort of solved outside of court The feds got that data without access to the phone So we haven't decided that question yet, but apple did stand up to them But so in the wake of that case Both the doj and the fbi have allocated tens of millions of dollars to what they call The going dark problem as if this is a new thing right that suddenly we have all this terrible crypto You know, we used to have all this light But now because of encryption it's gone dark. We need to put a ton of money into it And so as a result instead of going to a company like apple and saying give us the keys and being relatively transparent about it And you know doing this in court instead The fbi for example is hiring third-party companies to extract data from From devices and so there was actually a really interesting case earlier this year That my colleague sirus faravar wrote about on ars technica Where it was a sex distortion case in florida and a small a minor celebrity was getting sex storted I don't know if that's the verb I totally get what it means though They wanted to get some data off the sex storter's phone Uh and instead of going to and it was an iphone and instead of going to uh apple They just hired an outside uh forensics company an israeli company Who was who managed to extract the data from the phone? And the money for that for hiring that company came from an fbi fund a going dark fund and for 2018 The fbi has asked the government to allocate 21 million dollars to this fund So they're getting their ideas. They're going to continue funding this kind of thing so that What's really and I would say like the final thing I would say is what's really interesting is that Not only are we seeing uh the doj and the feds funding the creation of new tools for extracting data from encrypted devices but at the same time um We have rosinstein Asking that we have some kind of legislation or some kind of Backdoor agreement in silicon valley that would allow Uh law enforcement to have access to encrypted devices to basically create Uh crippled encryption that would allow uh law enforcement to to gain access as you were saying earlier so If he got if rosinstein got his way and we had legislation or or some agreement We would also still have these funds So you would have these going dark funds millions and millions of dollars going toward law enforcement finding vulnerabilities as well as having Weakened encryption. So it it that imbalance would be radically. It would just be huge, you know, it would be Not only are your is your phones encryption so crappy that you're vulnerable to petty criminals But also the feds are working on ways of finding new vulnerabilities and all kinds of other devices with this money that they've gotten So, um, we're at it. We're kind of at the dawn of what might be a new Um a new crypto war basically Yeah, it felt like after the the after james kobe backed off with with apple that this this might be put to rest because we had the the the capitol hill uh testimony and uh my my own representative karen bass won my heart by asking questions actually about encryption testimony That showed she had actually Understood everything and it felt like okay. We finally put this to rest, but it's a zombie It keeps getting back up and rod rosinstein is is trying to revive it by being more reasonable I mean talk about a good manager if i'm in a department where the manager says look We're going to try to get a budget in case it goes this way and we're going to keep that budget Even if it goes the other way like hey, that's good management. It might not be good for our our human rights uh and honestly As costly as it is. I think going after the problem that way with maybe you know some eye towards efficiency Is the better way to go Old spy craft where you where you uh eavesdrop on people The the kind of technology that can capture keystrokes at a distance So that you're spying on somebody while they're typing their text messages and maybe can figure out what they're typing Those things are possible And they don't violate anyone else's human rights and they don't weaken encryption for the law abiding citizens Yeah, I mean, I think you know, it is perfectly legal for them to have that money allocated however they want I think having Legislation that weakens our our crypto. I mean, it's bad for the nation because no other nation is doing this So that means that we leave ourselves vulnerable Uh to all kinds of criminals. It's not just leaving us vulnerable to legitimate investigations by law enforcement um, so I think that I mean it's it's interesting because Uh, one of the things that that we talked about at ours live was how this metaphor of going dark Is so misleading because it makes it seem like there was some time before the rise of digital communications and encryption When it was very easy for law enforcement to do their job But as any lawyer will tell you uh tapping a phone in the 80s or in the 70s It was a very different thing than opening up a phone that someone's carrying around in their pocket, you know in 2017 because Tapping a phone means. Okay. You listen to their conversations. You don't have access to all of their photos All of the locations that they've been for their entire the entire life of the phone Every single one of their contacts every message they've exchanged every letter they've written And that's what you're looking at when you get someone's iphone or their android device or whatever the hell they're carrying Some kind of weird blackberry thing and they uh, you know law enforcement wants access to that and so It's things have really changed when we talk about going dark. What we're really saying is um, you know They're trying to claim that that there is that there's some kind of similarity between what law enforcement would have gotten Before encryption and after and there really isn't you can't compare a trap and trace order to somebody Extracting data from a phone. It's just Different it's a jackpot that they want. It's not that it's something that used to be in the light And also like if you were trying to get that information from someone in the 1970s Like if you for some reason wanted all their photos and all their location data You would have had to get a search warrant to go into their house to look at their photos You would have had to have gotten, uh, you know a warrant to track them to actually follow them around So it's really comparing not just like apples and oranges, but it's like comparing a vax and an iphone Apples and hollandaise sauce Thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit and helps us keep track of these sorts of stories You can submit stories of vote on them a daily tech news show to reddit.com facebook.com slash group slash daily tech news show and that video with With riana pepper pepper corn, excuse me Is coming out when that should be out next wednesday So if you go to the arse technical live page or if you just go to arse technical on wednesday We'll post the video and you can see the full conversation with riana. It was incredibly interesting And we got great questions from the audience too. So And hey, if you're in oakland come out to our next arse technical live in february excellent Let's see what's in the mailbag zara Brian from atlanta writes in this is regarding a discussion yesterday about twitter pausing people's verification Brian says that they're kind of avoiding an obvious solution They might want to borrow from the social network next door next door if you're familiar is a social network based on people that live physically nearby Next door requires address verification before users can even participate on the service And they limit users to interacting with people in their neighborhood So twitter could easily use a model like this for verification Changing the rules to make any unverified account private And then require a user to verify their address using a postcard sent to their physical address Then they could essentially end anonymous and spam accounts If you want to take it a step further They could work with governments to provide automatic verification using address and government issued id numbers Obviously, they'd need to ensure that the information is just used for verification Not anything else not stored anywhere But forcing unverified accounts to be private by default would send a much clearer message Then brian says to make it easier for a celebrity say or somebody that's followed by a lot of people You could provide an option for all users that would block notifications from accounts under a selected follower thresholds Yeah, I mean he's not saying you'd have to do this to use twitter. He's saying you want to be verified Then here's what you do. Yeah, and that's up to you Uh, I When I signed up for next door some years ago back in san francisco. I remember the whole postcard thing I remember being like well, this is a little bit cumbersome But it worked pretty well, you know and and the thing with next door is it really is based on Hey, am I actually this person's physical neighbor? You know, I have to Somehow prove right and that's why they keep keep you from using the service unless you do that. Yeah, right, right. All right but I don't know. There's some privacy implications here on twitter I could see where a lot of people are like, no, no, you're not gonna Well, then you then you don't get verified. I mean box. I don't know It's if it's optional, it bothers me less. I guess that's the way I look at it, right Uh, hey folks, just a reminder. Len Peralta is not here again, uh, right now This week because he's got so much going on One of the things he's got going on is shipping those dtns last jedi mashup posters Uh, you can you can order them now All the slots are gone for the people who got their names on it, but you can have a copy for yourself It's 20 dollars For a print it's a mashup poster with myself roger and sarah lane You can also order custom drawn holiday cards or even one of the many prints that he's done For dtns since the inception of the show head on over there now Len Peralta store.com Len wanted us to let you know He's still got all that stuff going on even if he's not here. He'll be back with us soon Thank you, annally newitz for joining us. Uh, besides ours technica.com You're also got a novel out called autonomous I do here. Wait, let me show you. Oh, yeah, you got it up there. Yeah, so, uh, just came out It's about uh robots and a pharmaceutical pirate in the future Um and check it out. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was looking around earlier to for my copy So that I could show it, uh, and then realized that I bought it on kindle Wait, here it is That's my one right here. I'm just gonna leave it like this Perfect. The book is called Autonomous, uh, go check it out. We had a lovely interview with annally on sword and laser a while back if you want to check that out as well They asked great questions. Oh, thanks We steal all of our we steal all of our questions from our audience. That's why Hey, uh, we currently have four more patrons than we had last month And our goal is always to do better than last much But how much better you decide Get early access to dts labs exclusive columns bonus episodes and more at patreon.com slash dts If you want to get a hold of us our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern time 21 30 utc at alphakeek radio dot com Can also diamond club dot tv and our website is daily tech news show dot com back with yon monday with dr Kiki from this week in science. Talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Bob hopes you have enjoyed this brover Hey, good show excellent great You guys are all rad. Ah, you are too Congrats on the book by the way. Yeah. Thank you. I uh, yeah, I'm super happy to have it done And now my publisher just wants more Even got a quote from neil stevensson on it. That's great. I know that was super nice of neil. Um, yeah, he's He didn't even make me buy him He didn't make you uh Do any sword fights with him for it or anything? I wish that would have been awesome Yeah, no, I've I have yet to see his uh, his foundry and his basement, but I hope one day to yeah level up Um So if you head over to show bot dot tv you can find all the titles Uh top of the list is no rest for the encrypted Followed by fcc cuts the lifeline for the poor ziff davis buys mashable with binder clip savings possible Uh freaking fat cats cuts off poor life. Ziff davis is so mashable Egalitarian encryption frustrates feds. It's a mouthful crippled encryption Um ea leaves the dark side of the loot boxes Poor ea software forensics the new gum shoes if they hadn't done it so many times I'd feel really bad for them. I love that they now have the most hated comment on reddit I love that whole We hate you Everyone wants the back door more than the front door The back door still needs period the key to justice kind of reminds me of that episode of the simpsons where chief wiggum has the key to everything in the spring field and uh Ralph wiggum and bart like stealing they go to town um So that's what we have so far. I like the rest for the encrypted that that I I like that's here That's yeah, that's got my vote It's it's popular among hosts and audience Critics agree It's uh, it's the tomato meter and the whatever they call the thing that is the popular sentiment Yeah, just uh, yeah popular sentiment. Let's go with that. Yeah tm. That works That works wait. So what were we talking about when we were interrupted by having to do this show? All in day sauce and oh food we ate as college. No, but there was something that you you Stopped us roger because it was time to do the show Uh, something about ramen Wasn't ramen too for uh two for a buck Yeah, I think we delved super deeply into like how cheap food can get Red I remember, you know Like yeah, when you know 50 cent meal was like a thing that was very important to me And you can still do it in some places. So yeah, it's harder news to be but yeah Um, I was also equipping on like how are people still alive considering their diet is high in salts sodium fat You know saturated fat like all the stuff you know, all that stuff is really good for us And the only reason why we're having health problems is because of like, you know, weird toxins in the atmosphere and stuff like that Totally unrelated. Yeah, exactly. Well related but like environmental factors and it's like, oh, yeah But no, it was totally fine that you're eating mcdonald's all the time. It was just all those carbon emissions It was really killing people. So yeah, it was the exhaust in the parking lot of the mcdonald's Exactly Consuming mcdonald's products that part's fine. That is totally fine. Yeah factory farming also totally fine. Yeah, that turned out to be I mean, I'm not super proud of this but I did I tweeted about it. Actually I I hadn't eaten mcdonald's for quite a number of years and I was a vegetarian for a long time Um, but even after kind of going back to the dark side. I still wasn't eating mcdonald's But I had a 12 piece chicken mcnugget Meal um a couple Fridays ago. In fact two Fridays from today And it was so good And I want it again It's how they look. My nuggets are great, you know, like they're they're pretty, you know, it's hard to die And I know they're fine to be so good that you just can't like it was it was a mistake to even eat them in the first place But they were delicious. They just changed the ingredients too. So that it's just the vegetable oil They fry them in which I think is like corn oil, but which isn't great. Um I could be wrong about that and then there's no way they're good for me. It's just breading and chicken Took out all the weird stuff. It's bad for you. Yeah Yeah, yeah, it was a delight but it's like it's something about the form factor, right because it's kind of like the tater tot You know like small crunchy kind of it's it's a fun. Yeah, it's it's a comforting finger food I've always wondered if it had something to do with our ancestors chomping on Animal bones and you get like the soft marrow in the middle. So you like the crunchy outside So this is like the evolutionary psychology theory of tats. No, yeah, basically You get like a crispy outside and a spongy inside Yeah, literally save the chicken industry too because they're like, what are we going to do with all these leftover parts? Well, we'll just chop them up and cram them together and there you go That's the part about about nuggets that makes me sad is thinking about what's really in them. That's why I love those Uh, what was that? They're these great like vegetarian Like chicken Because they are exactly they taste exactly the same But you know that there's no like fingernails in there or like weird like chicken butt or whatever not the chicken butt is bad I just don't know if I want to eat it Or just or just on the other hand though that morning star stuff has all kinds of other crazy things Does it like plastic and I mean the the stuff they have to do to make it feel like it's meat Is is like they're doing really nasty things to soy Really? Yeah, I would love to know more because yeah, I feel like um, it it really is just like neat They probably make like a paper mache chicken and then they just chop it up Yeah, no, they're they're torturing paper machine. It's like No, there's something about textured soy protein that like changes the chemical makeup of it Well, so I can't remember that in general. Oh, no Soy in general is actually not good for you unless don't tell me that No No, so it's actually women Annalise especially women man This is like you guys are really you need to I mean really if you like soy The really only nutritious form is like tofu because it's because when it well tofu is my main soy outlet Although edamame like yeah, the thing is like when you eat edamame your body actually can't break down soy All the way Something about it's it's the same way. It's like, you know how like Central americans and mesoamericans created masa Where they would take the cornmeal mush and then they would soak it in lime water That's where I would actually break down And that actually makes it more nutritious as opposed to just eating corn straight off The cob which you get some nutrition, but you you miss out on like 70 percent garbage And like you said mesoamericans, they would eat corn with beans and squash like you wouldn't just eat corn by itself You know, so you were able to you know, ingest chemicals that would help you break down the corn Corn is really yummy though. So it's it's hard to break that habit Uh, that's why everybody all across the america's worshiped the corn god, you know Yeah, we still kind of do I guess Worn tortilla chips who could live without those? Yeah, exactly. That's how I work tacos. Come on Yeah, I mean it's kind of it. It's kind of a chicken or egg thing. Is it because we love corn so much? Is it because No, wait, is it because we we like corn because we actually do like corn or is it because we subsidize it? So there's everyone and their mother grows corn. No, no, no. Roger. We like corn. We like corn Yeah, you're you're trying to pull a separate criticism into this. There's there's no doubt that people like tasty and like and you know ever you know ever since people kind of discovered they could eat corn They've been domesticating it and and you know, like I said worship I agree though that it is overused because of the subsidies Yeah, no, it's it's uh I actually don't like I don't like an ear of corn I'm not into that, but I like corn That's because you're not from illinois Yeah, I like corn tortillas. I the thing I don't like about an ear of corn is that it gets in my teeth Like I don't know how to eat it in a way that is like I like I don't think it tastes bad. I just never want I don't want to be like jamming my teeth into like little pointy things that are going to get That's a fair point. I remember growing up. I would always shave the corn off the cob and eat it off my plate And my parents would make fun of me They're like, why are you doing that? I'm like, because I don't want to get it stuck in my teeth And then at that point did they say, yeah, he's gonna move to california They shut him down Not a good midwest corner They should have done But the corn in illinois is so much tastier than in the midwest in general than yeah than elsewhere I bet I mean, isn't it the same corn? I mean, where does our corn come from? Isn't it from the midwest? No, because you can grow it in your backyard Like it's just better than what you buy in the store There are some things in the midwest that are better than here, roger like Like like my mom What's true, you don't have you don't have your selection of mothers is very narrow Actually, no, I what was the one thing No, actually amily you told me about this and I still have an hankering to try it Is the pizza with the mac mac and cheese pizza? Oh, yeah Oh my god, that's in uh, that's in wisconsin, but I mean you can get that throughout the midwest you can get Uh potato on pizza you can get mac cheese on pizza, but there's this one place in madison wisconsin That has it has breakfast pizza It has you know, the mac cheese pizza it has Like alfredo noodle pizza It's like it's basically like designed for me because I like noodles and bread Rarely do I have them smushed together with delicious melted cheese on them. So so it's fat and carbohydrates It's it's just everything, you know and the texture and it sounds wrong, but it's so good Um, so I recommend it like so like noodles or just alfredo sauce Noodles and alfredo sauce. So how do you eat it without you stringing out the noodles? Like so, I mean the noodles are not it's not like spaghetti. It's like little bow ties in this case They're like sort of self-contained noodles. So and I mean same like with the mac cheese, you know So and also the noodles are quite soft. So you can bite through them It's not this is the problem with shrimp pizza that I've had where they leave the tails on the shrimp on the pizza and I'm like No doing like this Accessible Yeah, hold on hold on in taiwan They sell a pizza with the whole walk fried shrimp on top. You're supposed to eat the whole thing That's different. You're supposed to eat the whole thing And also it's like if it's walk fried, it's super crunchy. Yeah, yeah, like yeah, it's not like it's just like Oh, we left the tail on it's it's all soft But the tail is this like weird kind of like it's gonna stick in your throat and it's I mean, what what's the idea behind that? That it looks cool I guess or it proves this is a real Fancier with the pizza you want everything on the pizza to be edible. Yeah, I don't want to pull anything off What are you gonna give me a chicken pizza with bones in it next like No, they'll give you chicken wing Next though. Yeah crab pizza. I like the idea of like a whole I I would actually try that Hey, I wonder if anyone's done a lobster roll pizza Lobster roll pizzas We don't have to complicate these things. Oh, yeah, I don't know No, I'm with Roger on this one food Roger. That's like that's what they eat in the good place So here's a let me see lobster Not really a lobster roll, but uh, I'm sure there's lobster pizza People put everything on pizza I With everything about this pizza Pretty regularly. So that's a cool salad pizza. I don't even understand that pizza. That's just a veggie pizza That's just that no, that is just literally a piece of bread with salad on it, which is fine again Oh, there's no tomato sauce or cheese or no Roger bring that picture up again. It's a very important. I wasn't looking at the screen. Sorry Now you're just confusing things Whoa, so yeah, it's the same piece of bread with the salad on it. You're right Salad and like some which actually I might eat that actually now that I'm looking at it. It's kind of yummy That's not a pizza anymore. That's a no that needs a different name. That's just that's focaccia with That's a sandwich. Yeah, it's it's an open-faced sandwich. Yeah so Yeah, well actually one thing I I totally miss about not being in san francisco anymore is I used to order Indian pizza And they would have like a chicken tiki masala pizza, which was fantastic I really wanted to try that I weirdly I have never had indian pizza despite living in san francisco all this time and uh my uh Housemates kids when we have when we all have dinner together like their kids always want either indian food or pizza And I keep threatening to just get indian pizza because then everyone will be happy We bought it because we were like well, we're getting indian food from the place from us We'll try the pizza because we've been like buying from them for like the past two months And it was really like I was just expecting domino's pizza with like, you know, butter chicken on top or something It was really good. It was like incredible. Like wow, I was like these guys should just be doing pizza, but They do you're talking about zante's pizza, right? I think so famed indian pizza. Okay. Well, I am gonna get indian pizza I'll send you an email and let you know how it goes I have survived other years to keep you up today and on my really important doings Um Indian pizza achievement unlocked. What's this? What's the verdict? Yeah, exactly. I'm sure it'll be good So are you guys just like not watching star trek discovery? I I begged roger to talk about it I No, I watched it. I like it. I really like it I didn't think I would like it I thought originally and this is this goes back to a discussion Tom and I had about like going in different directions to star trek and I brought up like well Maybe if they went with the darker edgier star trek like even darker than uh deep space nine It's like well, it's like that would be star trek anymore, right? That would be a totally different show That would be yeah battle star And I watched star trek discovery and it's like, you know what it doesn't feel like star trek But at the same time it still feels like star trek And I'm watching I'm watching orville and discovery and I'm enjoying them both because when I watch orville I feel like I'm watching star trek, but because it's got comedy I don't feel like it's a tired version of it Whereas when I'm watching discovery, I feel like I'm watching really good sci-fi That sort of occasionally reminds me. Oh, right. And this is in the star trek universe Yeah, I have to agree that it doesn't have it doesn't have the utopian flavor of star trek I mean it has a sense of you can imagine The utopian star trek may be growing out of this scenario, which is of course the whole point But it is so dark and especially the The sort of mid-season finale which is such a dumb idea that we have mid-season finales, but Uh, it left us on a very in a very dark place. Uh last week. So I true I you know, that's that's part of it. It's like, you know, you I think what's so great about it is without the contrast It would all feel the same which is kind of One of the major complaints ahead with wagers like that kind of feels All the same. I get it. You guys are stuck on the other side of the universe There's that whole episode where the the the other federation ship was Using those alien organisms as a power source. Yeah I really like that episode because there's a sense of there's that Taste of desperation. It's like, oh, we're really desperate to get get the heck out of here And Janeway is like, no, we would never do that and actually that exact same scenario came up in discovery because they're torturing The macro tardigrade to get around and then and you know, bernum is like, no, we're not going to do that Whereas lorca is like hell. Yeah, we're going to torture the tardigrade. Like who cares Yeah, exactly. And then the tardigrade. I think you need that because if without without I mean to be honest You know without conflict. It's not a very interesting show Yeah But that was always the genius of next generation is they had to be inventive about how to find the conflict And that made for some crazy good episodes It really did. Yeah, and I I wish that we could have that, you know, I wish that it didn't have to be just all this kind of dark Uh, you know internal conflict, but um, I'm still happy to have some actual legit star trek on the air I haven't watched the orville yet. Everyone keeps telling me I need to but I don't know, you know, I I still have to force myself to watch that show Just because it's it's Seth McFarlane. So every time I see it, I expect to see Half a dozen family guy gags roll in but you don't Yeah, I just don't like watching that guy. Like I just he's not I don't like him as a live action Guy, like I just don't think it works for for him. And I don't I mean, that's one of the reasons I think they're ready to look at Catherine Peliki Yeah, I mean that's probably the solution All right, uh, thanks again everyone for hanging out and joining us It was seago seago is the thing we're talking about. Oh my god seago. I need to look that up because I Is it around can I buy it? Can I know it's it's out of yeah, it's been they stopped making it years ago Wait that silo. No wonder I'm getting it was like in the 60s. Oh, no, but wikipedia. It was a diet drink. Yep It was one of the first meal replacement drink. Wow. So your dad worked on like an early version of soylent Yeah, the seago sort of uh diverged into soylent and ensure Like yeah, it actually it sounds a lot like insured like yeah So I wouldn't be surprised go ever made it into any of your fiction because it sounds a little bit science fictional No, I I feel like there should be some kind of coded reference to see there was also spoon up From at the in the same product line, which was a meal replacement pudding Ooh spoon up Wow Yeah, the only claim to fame like that in my family is my grandfather invented the pick a note Which you can't even find on wikipedia, which was a Kids musical instrument that you could play like a little flute and he sold them door to door in the 50s So if you're old, uh, like, you know, not old old, but you know, if you were in the 50s You know, you might remember the pick a note. That was that was my grandfather. Oh, yeah That's cool. All right. Thanks again for having me. Thanks again everybody. Bye. Bye. See you next week. See you