 So welcome to our session at work inclusion in companies has come a long way and has been quite successful in many countries, at least in countries of the good old West. And the long way may be a little shorter than we think it's only been 10 years since the first event on this topic took place in Davos in 214 back then as an unofficial site event in the Microsoft Pavillon. And the day before yesterday I had the pleasure of attending a truly wonderful event that took place only for the second time in the history of Davos. The LGBTQ leaders dinner, which was incredibly inspiring and heartwarming and totally off the record. So, and Sander, I made his clothes this Sander was there. And he has been at the first meeting here in Davos 10 years ago. And he's one of the most active global leaders. When it comes to inclusion, he spent many years at Accenture and now is the CEO of Randstad, the Dutch multinational human resource consulting firm represented in 40 countries. Welcome. Thank you. And today inclusion is an important part, not only of Davos with many initiatives and events inclusions also lived best practice in many countries. This is due to the tireless work of activist icons like Sarah, who is here. She's the president and CEO of glad the famous US media advocacy organization Sarah turned the former Hollywood watchdog into cultural cultural change agent. And she just, I think two days ago received I saw you on TV. An Emmy. Big stage for her work the governance awards or congrats again. Thank you. And welcome. And other reason why inclusion is taken more seriously than error is cold economic calculation. Inclusive companies are more successful. They are better rated by shareholders. Nobody can explain this better than Martina. Chung she's the president of S and P global ratings, the largest credit rating agency one come. And inclusion is another economic aspect. One of the scarce is resources for companies worldwide is outstanding employees firms are competing for talent. They cannot afford not to have a clear includes inclusion strategy and Milton Chang is someone who is searching for talent worldwide. He's the global chair of Baker MacKenzie, one of the largest international law firms with more than hope that's correct. More than 70 offices. Yes, in 50 countries. Almost 50 countries. And Milton was born in Singapore, which I love. And has his head is forming years in the early years in the UK and is based in Hong Kong. So welcome. And I'm Jochen Bickner. I'm the editor in chief of the site. So the digital editor in chief of the site, a major German news organization. So I'm German. And I'm not an inclusion expert. So please be kind and inclusive. Right. And Sundar, since you have pursued inclusion, not only as an employer, but also as a key speaker for so long. I was wondering how has the attitude of companies changed over the last, let's say, 10 years and how has working life changed for the community? I would say we've made tremendous progress. We've made tremendous progress. I mean, just been your little history on what we've done in Davos over the last 10 years. You know, that has been accompanied by progress in all the companies that are represented here. So if you just look at the HRC list of the top 100 companies, I mean, you see all the big names there. You see Microsoft. You see the Bank of America. You see JP Morgan. You see Randstadt, of course. And all those companies have made tremendous, tremendous progress. All those companies have ERGs and they have the policies, et cetera. So I think we've come a long way in sort of our little bubble, if you will. I think outside, our big bubble, maybe. There's a better way of saying it because it's significant. Outside sort of this, you know, the Fortune 1000, I think there is a lot more work to do. But what you do see because, you know, we have these leading companies leading the way that has a halo effect on sort of the category of companies that are sort of a bit smaller than that. So great progress. A lot of work to do still. Okay. So Sarah, the public debate in the US especially seems to have changed in recent years. So there was a ruling on affirmative action US. There's this war on woke and the Republicans trying to push an anti-ISG agenda. And there's quite a while debate and even Elon Musk jumped into the topic just recently on Twitter. So how do you view the last years? I think we have made tremendous progress, like Sanders said, and what we're seeing is tremendous pushback and backlash against that progress. So specifically in the United States, we've seen over 500 anti-LGBTQ bills proposed over the past year, about 80 of them became law. And we saw them ranging from banning books to banning kids on sports teams to banning medical help and care for kids and adults. And so I think what we're seeing too is that these bans are targeting our community in a political environment and not looking at us as humans but looking at us as political pawns. I think also globally it's still illegal to be LGBTQ in nearly 70 countries. And so that's a battleground that we have been really having a discussion about here at the World Economic Forum because we know that countries and societies that are accepting and inclusive actually do much better financially. Okay. So Milton, since this is the World Economic Forum, I wanted to address another point right from the start. The situation in different countries obviously is completely different as is the way inclusion is practiced. Can you describe this with your global perspective? How much progress is there really on a global level? How different is it? How do you navigate this as a global company? I'm happy to do that. First of all, thank you for inviting me and happy to share at least a little bit of our own experience. Well, first of all, as you say, Bacon McKenzie is very diverse. We are across all four main continents in almost 50 countries. So we've more than 12,000 people, more nationalities and cultures than you can think of. And so it's foundational for us that we have a team, have a philosophy and approach that is not just multicultural, multi-dimensional, accepting everyone for whatever their personal characteristics. And this is something which is not easy to navigate for us as a firm. As Sarah says, there are countries that we operate in where it's illegal in the societal norms that are difficult to navigate, and there are other countries that are more accepting and inclusive. So what we've done is to apply what we call an advocates and embassies approach. So in those markets or countries where it's more accepting of LGBTQ, we do what we can to publicly be part of the advocacy for it. And then this takes place in different ways, in different countries, in different market contexts, in cultural contexts. But our team members, wherever they are in the world, do so knowing that they are the full support of the leadership and the firm. And indeed, our default position is its advocate. But we do recognize that many countries where this could be problematic. And for me, the number one priority is still the safety and security of our people. So we do the embassy approach, which is that whatever may be going on around outside when you're in Baker, Mackenzie, you have a safe space to be your authentic self. And within that safe space, we do internal, sometimes involving our clients or other members of the community as well, who face the same issue. We do events, we do things to keep the momentum going. And then we wait and hope. We advocate indirectly where we can. And when things allow us to be more open, we would be. So that's how we try and balance that. We will come back to best practice later. So we have to collect the list later of best practice. Martina, everyone today is familiar with these acronyms like CSR, ESG, DI, DNI. But how important are inclusion and diversity really in the business for business success? What is your elaborate evidence based expert view on this? Can you share some numbers? Yes, I was going to start to your point by saying, get ready. Hold on to your seats. We're going to throw some numbers at you. So look, my hypothesis on this is this community is good for business. And why do I say that? Think about any CEO are all going to be thinking about at least three stakeholder groups. First is a customer. The LGBTQI plus community globally, according to a number of studies, it was just featured in a recent Weff report is larger than the GDP of Germany. So this is a huge community to serve and to do business with. Secondly, we looked at a recent study from KPMG that shows around one in three U.S. consumers take social responsibility into account and their purchases. So make no mistake about it. This is important for our customers. Second stakeholder group. Let's talk about investors. Let's talk about any other funding sources, whether it's banks, et cetera. We've looked at a number of studies. One that we thought was very interesting is a credit suite study that highlighted the companies that have openly LGBTQ plus. I'm going to get the it's so long. I'll get it wrong. Maybe I'll say community companies that have open community leadership perform better than global stock benchmarks on market cap on cash flow on a number of other financial metrics. But the other thing that's very interesting as well as every CEO needs to think about funding where it's going to confirm to you to have the private markets, the public markets, et cetera. And this is very important because you can tap into specific investment themes around sustainability. We've all been very familiar with this in the last many years. It's such a key topic globally and at Weff in particular as well. This is a great opportunity for highlighting the work that's being done and using that to tap into some of these additional funding sources. And last but not least, your employees and your colleagues. So the Marshall Planon recently published a report that said about 70% of the global workforce will be millennials and Gen Z by 2029. That's up from 52% in 2019. And this community is highlighted as one of the more important aspects of DEI amongst this population. So the Gen Z and millennial workforce places a much higher emphasis on this. So if you want the most innovative, the best talent, if you want to build great pipelines, this is incredibly important, not just for your LGBTQI plus colleagues but for the whole base of colleagues that you work within your companies. So I weave all these things together and I think I can say with great confidence that this is just good business and it's a very important topic. Sorry if I can just add one little data point to that is we've just launched some research of our own called Work Monitor. And we have there, we call it the assertive one-third. And the assertive one-third of people says I'm not taking a job or I'm even prepared to quit from a job if. And one of the big ifs is there and this is not just LGBT if I don't feel belonging in the company that I or the organization that I work for. So this is big. Can we make the list now? Can we kind of collect all of you? Can you recommend things? What makes companies inclusive? What are the do's? What are the don'ts? You start. I'll just give one. I can give a whole no. I have a list here. I'll give one and I would say it's a tone from the top. It is the tone that the leadership in the company is setting and it's not just on LGBTQ it is on the whole. We want to be a place that is good to work for everybody, no matter what your background is. And that's who we are. And that's the tone. And I would say it is the showing up matters. Yes. So if there is an LGBTQ event, if the CEO shows up, even if it's only for 10 minutes. That is highly appreciated and a massive signal. So the tone from the top combined with showing up at the right time. If you are a CEO, for example, should you be outspoken and public about these things? Let's say I think you should be outspoken. Every CEO and most of the CEOs I know are outspoken about you. We want to be a good place to work for everybody. I think that is the number one message. Every CEO should decide for themselves whether they want to go out on more controversial issues. That is more and more expected by the workforce. At the same time, I always say on those issues, you have to have also to a right to speak. You have to have some relevance in the zone. Let's say the whole issue of trans kids and all of that. I don't think we have a right to speak there. I mean, personally, I'm all supportive. But I don't think as a runs that we have a right to speak. When it is about equality in the workplace, we do have a right to speak and we speak out. So that's sort of the rule of thumb that I'm using. Check, Sarah. I think I always have people look at it in two ways, especially CEOs. One is what's going on inside internally and then the external, which you were just asking about. And it does start with the top, but it goes through everything. It's supply chain. If you're taking a inclusive and diverse look at your workplace and what your policies are, what your health care policies are, what your parental leave policies are, who's your supply chain, is that diverse? So you really have to take a holistic view of this. And the reason is because if you just half do it and do it in half measures, it will fall apart and that will be worse than not doing it at all, quite frankly. And then on the outspoken side, on using your public platforms, I think there's a tremendous pressure around CEOs today to use their public platforms across many, many issues, especially in the United States. And I agree that you have to be specific to what matters to your company, but you also have to realize that you are working for a tremendous amount of stakeholders in your company. And so topics that you might not be very comfortable on are going to come to your doorstep. And how you partner with civil society is a really important factor in this too. Speaking to the people who are on the front lines of myself or on the women's movement or whatever on climate, on being climate forward, speaking to those advocates who are on the front lines and fighting the fight so that you have a really nuanced understanding of what is happening out there before you speak out. And I will say, my number one, if nothing else, if you make a decision to speak out and you've gone up and down the ladder in your workplace, stick to what you say. Don't back down, unless it's about murdering people. But if it's a good thing and it's good for society and good for humanity, it is the CEOs who backtrack, who end up in the headlines. So that would be my one little secret is that really stick with what you do and surround yourself with civil society and other coalition partners. You're not in this alone. That's a really important factor. Companies need to come together. It is a human advantage to speak out together, not a competitive advantage. We have to stop looking at it as a competitive advantage at some level. Martina. Yeah, so I can't help myself. I'm going to throw another number out there. So we, as a data and analytics company, we analyze quite a bit around corporate sustainability and produce metrics around it. So for the universe companies that we cover about 17,000 and our 2023 analysis, about 24% of them mention LGBTQI plus in some way in their corporate sustainability reports, which is, I want to say, is actually great because it's up from about 19% in the prior years. So really good progress being made. Interestingly, the three leading countries, USA, Brazil and Ireland, I'm Irish, so I'm very proud to see that. And I think we will continue to see more of this and it highlights one of the areas that I would have said is the best practice, which is visible commitment, visible commitment to take advantage of all of the underlying drivers of value that I just mentioned in my first response. The second thing I would say just to share a fun anecdote. So we now have a supplier diversity program leader within S&P Global and our pride employee resource group is a very lively and dynamic team. So our program manager for supplier diversity in tracking our supplier diversity noticed that LGBTQI plus was lagging some of the other diverse groups that they track in our corporate center and is now actually working with our pride group to get more suggestions and alternative diverse suppliers within the community, which I thought was very neat, very innovative, and such a great way to show how the employees can come together around this. Okay, Trek. It's always a challenge to go in last. So I agree with and endorse all of the comments made so far. Leadership commitment absolutely needs to be there. Visible leadership commitment. Working with, you know, again, the humility to know that, you know, you're best doing this together with experts like Sarah or others. Understand the new ones and the different markets we operate in. Tracking. We can do all the talk you want. You have to walk the walk. You have to track it. People are accountable. One other thing I would add is that, you know, certainly at the Bacon McKenzie, we encourage this is to your point, Sarah, about doing this together. If you want to change culture, you need to win over the allies as well. And promoting from the top through the bottom left, right, all around. This is everybody's endeavor. And that's the way we drive the culture change that's needed. And particularly in a very complex diverse environment that we have at Bacon McKenzie, then you don't have a sort of one size solution from the center that everybody applies. Because they all look out for each other in all the different parts of the world, all the different cultures, there is that sense, there is that culture of belonging and mutual support. I have a checklist here with eight points. You mentioned nearly all of them, but one is three are missing. So what about policies? Yes. So I'm using your list, by the way, you gave me... Yeah, you're the expert. What about policies? So if you have partners and they have benefits and stuff like that, it's different from country to country, right? But it's a super important point, I think, number two on our list. I could not agree more, having the right technicalities in place, the policies, the same sex benefits, that whole framework. A, it's important because it matters to individual people, but B, it sends out an enormously important signal. So yeah. Check. What about education? So educate unconscious bias training, stuff like that. Is that an important point? Definitely an important point. I think that's covered in sort of doing an audit of your internal and how are you from an HR perspective, from a policy perspective, all of those things within your internal, like taking care of your own house and making sure that yes, you do have that in place and that you're educating and growing your team, but that should be one-on-one. And that's one last point I'm not sure about because I have different signals, which is do we need pros managing inclusion? Is there a job like an inclusion manager? Is it necessary or is it strange to have that or is it super important for a large company to have that? I can certainly give a point of view. I think it's been incredibly important at S&P Global and we've benefited tremendously from it. As important, though, I think is the employee resource group piece of it. I work very closely with the pride group, the Women's Group at S&P, and that's where you get the grassroots and you get a lot of ideas, a lot of communication feedback back up to senior management on other things that can be done. I want to bring to that the reason it's so important is because you're talking about typically marginalized folks within an organization, within a construct, right? That don't typically have a seat at the table and don't have a voice to advocate for themselves. So having that person who can articulate and can have a seat at the table. So I always say it's really important and it's very telling in a company where a chief diversity officer reports into. And that tells you how important the top thinks that is. Is it checking a box as you're saying this whole time, right? Or is it so that you're making and building a company that is thinking about business forward and knows that inclusion is a path forward? Can I just add one thing there? The role is important, whether you need one or multiple that depends on the size of your company, but you cannot outsource responsibility. You cannot say we now have Sarah and she's going to take care of that and you cannot delegate that. So yes, we need people to help drive the agenda, but ultimately it's senior leadership that needs to be responsible and held accountable for the progress you make throughout the company. Yeah, 100% agree with everything. Sending a signal, but also we have a CIDU and she's there not only to report into our Global Executive Committee and keep us aware of what we need to do specifically on whether it's LGBTQI plus inclusion or inclusion more generally, but also helping us to shape our strategy. As you say Joakim, we are a people business. How we position ourselves, not just externally to the market, but internally in terms of our training, our development, making sure that no one is overlooked is really important. It's part of our people asset management strategy. So if there's a global competition for the best talents, you touched that point before, but is there a need for kind of a marketing strategy for you? So are you like strategically communicating into the community or not? I don't think it's a PR campaign as such. I think, look, certainly in this space, people know if you're authentic or not. You can have the best, you know, all that. If you're track record as, you know, as I'm sure S&P would keep us on our toes, right? If you're track record doesn't show it, it doesn't show it. You can say all of the nicest things, but if you're not one that's actually willing to listen and commit to it, I think as you say, it actually backfires. You know, you can backtrack on things and that's bad for you. You can say things and people know you're not genuine and that's bad as well. Although I do think it's important, and it's not about marketing, but I was just talking about showing up. It's also important how you show up vis-a-vis the outside world. On your website, on your social media, I mean participating in Pride, I mean those are all signals to people in our community. Baker McKenzie or Randstad or S&P are good places to work. I ask a question for our host because we are late in the game in measuring diversity, which is complicated in Germany to do, so any recommendations how you do that? Because it's also really strange to ask people super private questions obviously. So is there a best practice you could recommend? Yeah, there are some data privacy concerns, as you can imagine, for certain aspects of diversity, LGBTQI+, being one of them. So there's no easy way to do it, in all honesty, but we do have... So I think we're trying to do it not so much in terms of saying, okay, we've got four out of ten, five out of ten and so on, so therefore we're improving. But in how we have people who, anonymously otherwise, take up some of our internal channels for people to speak up or to offer suggestions, from this community. We also try and encourage everyone to share information about how... So say, for example, if there's something in one of our offices that are more developed in their thinking and practice on this in London, we, with Merida Crawford, I'll say, I deal with this, we take as many of the best practices there and spread it as much as we can across the rest of the organization. So we have an active effort to make sure that whatever programming ideas come up in any one location, get disseminated to the rest of the organization as quickly as possible. And then people adapt according to their own environment. Can I just add, let's say, some companies have made quite a bit of progress on self-ID, and so employees self-identifying as LGBTQ as one in engagement surveys that many companies do. You can also ask the question self-identification and see how the scores are, so there's another way to do it. And then, of course, there's on the bad side of the spectrum, there's your hotline or your ethics line, and how many complaints are coming in from LGBTQ people or within LGBTQ dimension. So those are data points, but frankly, the data points are important, but I think the overall atmosphere and creating that in a positive way and sharing, I think, is even more important. I want to quote Milton. I read in a story about you. You said, I'm Singaporean and a Hong Konger who took over from a guy from Colombia, who took over from a first chair from Britain, who took over from a first chair from Brazil, who took over from a first chair from America, who took over from the first chair from France, who was also at the time the first woman and the international law firm had Christine Lagarde. It's a funny quote and I thought, wow, what a role model. So not only you, but the whole story of the company is inspiring for people who look for diverse companies. Let me give you some context to that. Actually, I've been in this role just over four years. That was an interview I had literally in the first week of my role. I was in London and one of the London newspapers was asking me. So they asked me, because I'm the first Asian to lead an international law firm, so they said, are you proud to be the first Asian to lead a global law firm? So I said, yes, of course I'm proud. I'm proud for Singapore where I'm born. Excuse me. I'm proud for my family, my parents and all that. But you know, I just put it in context. I may be the first Asian, but I took over from the interim chair who was from Colombia. He took over from our first British. He took over from the first Brazilian to lead a global law firm. He took over from, okay, really good guy from Chicago. And he took over from our first leader from Paris, where at the time she became our chair, was the first woman to ever lead a global law firm. And now she's gone on to greater things, Christine Lagarde. So what I said was, okay, you know, yes, I'm proud that we've got to this stage with Asians leading the firm as well. But I'm not just the first. I'm the latest in the long line of firsts. And I could go back further than 25 years if you want me to. That was the context of that comment. Thank you for the context. But being a role model is super important, I think. So I assume that people like the CEOs or the leaders of your company are a big example for others. Also, your own story is something like, I read the story, I was looking for a company that would hire people like me in an international context and you're really looking for these companies, right? Yes, yes we are. It's in the DNA of Bacon McKenzie to try and build a really sort of multicultural, diverse workforce because our clients are from all around the world. And then they invest and want to grow all around the world. So for us to bring the best of our firm to them, we need to almost like have a matching, have a team that thinks in that plural way so that we can help support them. First of all, we can understand them and then we can support them as they need to understand the environments everywhere they go as they're growing. Let's come to the dark side of things. You mentioned that before we tried to establish a safe space, right? And there was a UN report saying that one third of migrant workers from Southeast Asia seem to be more comfortable with concealing their identity not because of the companies themselves but because they are followed by the discrimination out of their home countries. So how do you deal with that? If I'm from somewhere else and my friends there yelling at me all the time and I just don't want to talk about it, whatever it is, isn't that okay? So how do you deal with that situation? I'll start, I'm sure others will have things to say. I mean, maybe the best way I can do this is to share a couple of, and I'll just think it through as you're asking the question, a couple of anecdotes. So I think one is, so we had just recently, well, it wasn't recent, but we had a situation where an associate in one of our offices in a country where it is challenging to be LGBTQ was on a secondment to a London office, I mentioned London earlier, and that associate towards the end of the secondment period came out while in London and even before the associate's family was told and was very concerned about going home because the environment is very different. So we pulled out stops to essentially, and obviously with everyone's agreement, he went back for a while and then he came back permanently to London where he felt much more comfortable. And the silver lining is that associate now is one of the highest performing associate in London. And that requires the leadership to actually make commercial decisions, not just talk. So that's one. Maybe I don't want to take up too much time. The other thing is recently, our firm has had some challenges as a journey. We win some, we win three, we lose one, lose two, whatever it is, and it's how you respond to that that matters. So we had an issue in one of our markets which caused our LGBT community to question whether our firm was really on track with these things. I have to say that several members of our global, so these senior partners, Global Diversity Leadership Group, reached out and offered not just official stuff, their personal emails, their personal mobile phone numbers so that whoever wanted to have a chat off the record could have a chat and feel heard. So that, I'm really proud of. Maybe I could add just a little bit. I think you're hitting on a really important point about visibility and senior leadership in the last two questions. And that's something that we see. We do a huge amount of research in different diverse groups, including women, for example. And that is one theme that rings home and rings true all the time. And I actually, in 2013, there was a senior division president openly gazing your division president at S&P who approached me and said, there's nobody for lesbians and other identities to look up to. Would you think about being more visible? And I did, and it's just, I can't overestimate. You can't quantify that in any way, but the number of people over the years who say you have no idea how much this means to me in so many different ways is incredibly important. The thing about self-identification is a real challenge. Over half our workforce is in India, Pakistan. And what we're doing is, of course, we have as much by way of policy. We have to, of course, abide by privacy rules. The ERG piece has been critical for us. So a third of our pride ERG group is in India. And that's because we had some really fabulous allies, folks that I worked with directly over the years who stood up and said, we're going to take this challenge on. We're going to make this real and make this happen. And it's one of the most successful ERG groups across all of our India offices. What about this war on woke? How should companies react? And not only in the US, you have in many countries, you have different situations. Should they become activists, or should they back up and be just a little bit quieter about things? I'm looking at you. I know, I see that. She's going to tell us what we should do. Yeah, exactly. I think backing away is a bad idea. It is not good for business. It's not good for building trust, which is what this forum is all about this year. And I think you have to do it smartly. We're in a very politicized society. There's no doubt about that. And identity is being politicized in a way that we haven't seen before. And so how do you navigate that is the real question, I think. And the answer to that is that you use your ERG, you use your leadership, you educate yourself on what's going on, and then you go to market the way that you want to go to market as an organization and a company, and you stand by that. But you have to have real thinking behind it and not just making a move. And I think that you have to find, go to your core value as a company and determine how are you going to then show up in different spaces. We always recommend that you need a decision tree within your company on these topics. Who is the top of the decision tree and who gets involved in these decisions as you're moving through them? Especially real-time things that happen. And how important is it to your business? How is it going to grow your business as well? Because then people can understand the direct correlation between what you're saying and what you're doing. I also believe deeply in quiet diplomacy. As I mentioned, there were over 500 anti-LGBTQ bills in America, 80 of them passed, the others didn't pass. And we fought back. A lot of that was activists and front-line folks. And a lot of that were companies who had conversations and talked about, if you do this, I'm going to run a political opponent against you and I'm going to help fund them. If you do this, I'm pulling out my plant that I'm about to build. And they did it quietly to make those moves happen because they couldn't run their companies in those states if those laws went into place. So I think there's a lot of ways that companies have to. And if you look at, you know, the Edelman Trust Barometer, which is one of those things that we watch very closely, it says that employees trust their CEOs and their companies more than they trust the media, more than they trust the government. And this is US-based. There is an international version of that. And so when you think about it, your employees are looking to you for your leadership and it's not just about selling widgets or offering a service. They want to know where you stand because government is letting them down. They can't trust media in the same way that they used to, but they trust you even more. And that is a big burden. I'm not saying it's not a big burden and I don't feel for you all, but you need to navigate it because otherwise it will navigate you and that won't be good. And there are companies that take harm if they speak out, right? So, and a lot of... So, the vortigaunt, for example, ran a big story about this, so many of the Fortune 500 kind of are cautious and have a different strategy today than five years ago or whatever. So, any recommendations? Well, I think companies are more cautious and of course in the US there has been some decisions by the Supreme Court that put an end to certain practices or follow the law. Let's say that nothing... I don't think companies are backtracking and definitely run studies on doing the right thing. And I think we've heard it from all the companies around the table here. We companies are committed to make sure we have an inclusive work environment. Why? Because it makes sense in the round. It's good for business. It's good for the employees. The employees want it. It's good for the investors. So, doing the right thing, companies will keep doing. Yet, yes, they are cautious if the legal environment and the political environment is changing. They need to sort of navigate. I'm fully aware, but I don't think they're backtracking on any of it. This is Davos. There's a Swiss clock ticking here. We have four minutes left. Do you have any questions? One question. Two questions. Three questions. Got to be quick. I'm sorry for asking so late. No, this is a great discussion. My name is Devani Smith and I'm here with the Global Shapers from Washington, D.C. In my full-time job, I work in racial equity and gender inclusion as well. My question is related to the employee resource groups. I think this conversation has a lot of big ideas. In practice, a lot of times, this is not what's happening at organizations, but you do see a lot of employees who want to make these groups on their own. My question is from a senior leadership perspective, how do you get senior leaders to buy in if they are not already bought into these employee resource groups? What advice do you have to the leaders of these ERGs to include senior leadership and just build the collaboration and trust more? I feel really strongly about this. I actually was connected to, for example, the S&P Women's Group even before I joined S&P, so I've been super passionate about women, about our pride group as well. I have two thoughts. One is make sure most companies today of size are tracking employee satisfaction and you can learn a lot if you look at that. That is going to tell you the same way that it does for us. We are global. We're all over the place. We have multiple different industries. We're a very diverse in terms of business company and it's going to show you that this matters. The second thing I would say is put your hand in your pocket as a leader. I used to sponsor the Asian group. I don't sponsor them anymore, but I still fund the Diwali celebration in New York every year, for example. You have to put your hand in your personal, like the only one who does that today. What's going on here? I know. You have to put your hand in your pocket as a leader and actually give them money to convene and do things. Okay, second question. Yes, thank you. I'll be quick, but I know that this panel is related to the place of work, and without having as much data as you, Martina, but it seems that qualitatively it has been an increase in the violence against the community. Obviously, people can feel safe at work, but if they don't feel safe going to the office or going to the place of work and then leaving and to get home, then that makes the situation very difficult. So I wonder what we could do to also improve that aspect on the day-to-day, on the daily living, because it goes beyond the companies, but we can help, and it has to do with the government, it has to do with civil society. So I would like to hear your perspective on that. I'm happy to talk about that. We actually this year brought in three activists, one from Uganda, one from Kenya, and then one from China to talk about, because we do convene a conversation around decriminalization and how can we use this platform as Davos for government and for CEOs and corporates to help advance that, because we need help advancing that. I think most recently we were able to work very closely with the Pope to have him speak out about decriminalization, which was very powerful because half the countries are Catholic countries. And I think that we need a game plan around decriminalization. We're working with other activists who are international as well, but corporate has a piece of that too and can really help us along the way. I'm not saying it's what they should do as a first priority, but along the way as they're building their business and they're moving into spaces and places where it's criminal to be LGBTQ, there are conversations that they can have at the onset to start to move that along, because I do see a future where we're taking away at it. It's been at 70, it's at I think 68, 69 right now, and we're starting to move it down and that's a really important factor and this is a platform for that. Hell freezes, we get two more minutes. Last question. If it's possible. So maybe more of a reflection and a question, but I'll try to... So I like to think that inclusive companies would perform because when we are ourselves, we tend to be better. So for that I'm all by, but maybe a question for you if you have reflected on that. When we start talking like, almost like it is a good investment, like this pays off and this is the companies that are open, they perform better, it's almost a bit intriguing like, because we don't want to have leaders taking this decision from a commercial perspective versus just doing the right thing. Any perspective on that? Could not agree more, period. I think they're entirely compatible. Certainly for us as a people business is 100% compatible, but I would imagine for all businesses. Would you agree that it might be risky if we start arguing the wrong way? Yeah. I completely agree with you and I would say to Milton's point, completely compatible, but also important to take into account all stakeholders. In the past, there has been some pushback saying, oh but our clients would never accept that or our customers would not buy from us again. So that's why we need to fact base and open for business has just published another report that confirms everything you said, Martina. But you're absolutely right. It is a little bit disappointing that we still need to fact base because doing the right thing is always okay. I want to add to that too. This is a little commercial. I sit on with a group of other folks with WEF and we create what's called this Lighthouse Report on an annual basis. This is a very important one and these are best practices for businesses, for inclusion globally and it's really powerful. I advise you all to take a look at that because it can really help you make a case at work or understand as you're moving into the space or going deeper into the space what's worked for other big global multinational companies. So we see great development in the last 10 years. Established best practice and lots of things to do, especially from an international point of view. Thank you very much for your all. See you next year. Thank you.