 I am the team leader of the conservation alliance of Kenya, which is an umbrella organization for registered organizations working in the environment and natural resources management in this country, Africa and globally. That sounds like a very, very big job. Yes, it's a very, very huge assignment because all these members are looking upon me to provide direction for them and to make sure that wildlife matters are always at the forefront. And then also looking forward to engage with the target audience in terms of where your space is. So, again, I'm very, very, how to say, artistic. Everything about me is a bit, a lot, a bit artistic. So Pocha is a Kenyan based movie, all Kenyan actors for Kenyan production. And it's about poaching, as the name suggests. So it's set up in somewhere in, you know, wildlife type situation. And then we have three groups of people. So we have the authorities who are trying to protect the elephants and all these fantastic wildlife species. And we have the pochas themselves who are harvesting the tusks of the elephant. And then we have a third group. Those are the normal village people who are actually being affected, like the elephants pass by and destroy their crops and their food products and all these things. But they do not harvest, but they will if it means a coin or a penny in their pockets, you know, to feed their families. So what part of that dynamic do you focus on? Excellent. That's a very good analogy when you say the pocha. Prior to joining conservation, I used to think that I've never destroyed natural resources. But only when I got in is when I realized my goodness. I think in my background I've actually been a pocha. Why am I saying that I've been a pocha? We killed rats. We killed snakes. That's different. That's different. Atamendu mewa. Atamendu mewa. Atamuskito yora pocha. Kusapuskira wu. Right? Yora pocha. So everyone is a pocha. Now, using my background, I've killed both small and big animals before. Even a dog, even a pig, the way you slaughter it, you can fall in the category of the pocha that you've described. So using your description. I feel in the category of where the normal manainchi is, where the people are, because that's where I come from. I don't work in the agency that actually protects natural resources, but I work with the people. So my role is to work with the people to see how culture fuses in with conservation and having said initially from the start that we all come from communities that are poaching and that are using wildlife resources as a way of sustaining their daily livelihood or as a way of entertainment or depending on whatever you want to call it. Previously, we are rewriting the narrative from the Masai culture where you have to kill a lion in order for you to prove your manhood and several cultures also rewriting it. Among the Samburu culture, you have to present an ivory ring before you wed and so many things are working at the moment and that's why fall in the category of the communities where the majority of the Kenyans are. But we also work very closely with the protectors that's the Kenya Wildlife Service and all the agencies that are also responsible for that. And one of the things that we work on a daily basis is to see how we reduce the impact caused by the poacher, the one now that kills. And they kill either for the products that the animals have or they kill also just to sustain themselves. But this is a very destructive category of poachers that we need to deal with in our country. Is it really poaching if you're getting rid of a nuisance, if the lion is coming and eating all my flock or if the elephant is trampling all over my food source? Is it really poaching if I, you know, tokapa? Yeah, I need to eat also. There are two ways of looking at it. If you come into contact with a wild animal and the wild animal is causing destruction and disrupting your everyday issues, there are two things that we advise. It's contact Kenya Wildlife Service because they are the ones who can guide you in terms of helping you contain the issue that is happening at that particular place. Now quite often Kenya Wildlife Service may not respond on time or may not respond at the point where you expect them to and there could be some slight delay. It's expected because that's natural. But under normal circumstances, there are what we call early warning signs and this is where we work with communities to be able to work with Kenya Wildlife Service so that you don't wait for the elephant to come and destroy but you alert Kenya Wildlife Service and tell them we've seen lions hovering around, we've seen elephants around and they could be kilometers away, a lot of them kilometers away so that they can come with you and help you reduce the impact that they do. Now I do understand also elephants do move at night and they will surprise you in the middle of the night and they come and that's where we also sit down with you to train you also to help you see how to mitigate. So for example an elephant will come and you've got your granary and they'll come and leave the granary and the elephant is interested in eating and satisfying itself. So it's sad that that's what it does but then when you take the responsibility for protecting your property or protecting yourself there are two scenarios that may happen. Scenario number one is you may kill the animal and according to the act it becomes an offence and you can be child. Scenario number two is the animal can kill you and when it kills you then again it brings in other issues so it's a risk that we are taking if we don't engage the agencies that are responsible for taking care of the animal and at the same time also protecting lives. So it's a double age sword. One of another phenomenon I've seen that is also Kenyan. I watched a TED talk of a young boy who was tired of his village being just harassed by lions and such things in my life and my favorite thing about this story is he did not choose violence. What he did was he set up a lighting system so that if it's... I can't remember if it's motion sensor but as soon as a lion comes so all the lights just go on and then the animal just moves away by itself like this but there's no... but also clear throat. I have seen a case where there was a lion Nala was found somewhere at the bypass just walking around just chilling. What is that? How can I just be Steve, I'm a bit concerned. Just be walking and just bumping into a lion. No... Well, it depends where you are brought up where I was brought up those are normal scenarios. We would walk and see snakes passing by that's how I grew up. So imagine... let me give you a perspective different from where you grew up. Let's use the communities that live with this resource. You wake up in the morning and I've actually witnessed that and you're seeing a lion right in front of you like about, you know, 20 meters and it's on an anti-heel and you've come right on an anti-heel and the lion is working out trying to look for the next prey and you're coming out of your tent and you're seeing the lion there. What's the first reaction? Wow, I only see this on TV. But I'm seeing it live. It's exciting. It's an exciting moment. Yes. We have different definitions of exciting but please continue. What happened? That's exciting. So you simply just sit back and watch and then eventually you find the lion is not interested in you. So you just look at each other? You just watch and watch. A snake is passing. You simply just stand still observe what it's going to do. It will look at you, say hi and it will continue with its activities. Maybe it's because you're a guy. You know us and snakes, the women and snakes. And then we've not been friends. I understand. Okay, let's talk about a baboon. A baboon will harass women more than men. Why now? It's because women show some level of scariness and a baboon gets excited and chases you. You're getting it. So women are more vulnerable to baboons than men and right now baboons are not even staying in the area where they are supposed to. People have even gone to the forest and interfered with the habitats of baboons and monkeys and that's why they're in our homes. So if you are to ask me what needs to happen is we need to adjust our attitudes and begin to live with these animals. Yesterday I was somewhere near Daleria and baboons were there and I saw this security guard eating a sweet and the baboon was just a few feet away and I was like wow. That's a lovely scene that baboons are getting closer to us, monkeys are getting closer to us and if you get closer to them also I'm not saying that we should actually get closer to them because there are challenges when you get closer that we encourage what is called coexistence. So there are certain animals you can get close. There are others you don't. I don't encourage you to get close to a lion. I don't encourage you to get close to an elephant. There are two scenarios. I'll give you an example of a very, very nice story for young people to know. Using my narrative the one I've told you about coexistence if you have come from a place and you are drunk and you are staggering and you are walking home and you meet a lion my goodness you are in trouble because as you stagger the lion reads your actions and your emotions and it senses you want to attack the lion doesn't know you are drunk it senses emotions and quickly says here I'm in danger and you become a prey to that lion out of self defense. This is information that has been recited and it's been proven over time that majority of the people who actually get killed by lions are those who have come from drinking places. That's a fact. So be very careful even as you interact outside there that animals read our emotions and our actions and they interpret them differently and quite often just like human beings they go on to self defense mode same thing also with snakes if they read an action they go on to defense and that's when they attack but if you just stay calm nothing happens once we were walking and we were removing snails that were set by pochas to trap animals and right about ten feet there was a lion and there were three of us I mean I was scared I was scared that was my first experience I was scared wow a lion I am looking for anywhere to hide and there is nothing and they are just short shrubs what did we do we just stay calm alright we looked at us we looked at it and it continued moving and we allowed it to continue moving and it went opposite direction and we continued with our activity same thing with animals and rhinos they sense through the wind alright so if the wind blows your sense towards the animal then they sense there is a human being nearby so if you just want to walk and enjoy nature is just look at the direction of the wind so how do you tell the direction of the wind I don't know but I guess you know how to do it if you don't I will teach you teach me because midon they taught me yes that one then you know where the wind is going you know it's blowing that direction so if you are sitting on the direction where the rhino is or the buffalo is and I'm here and the wind is blowing that direction and I don't want the buffalo to sense I simply just ensure that the direction the wind is blowing doesn't blow my scent there so I simply just move the opposite direction and I can enjoy observing the animal in its natural state without causing the animal to panic so I takang itu asira takang asira just be cool be calm and we can enjoy the company of these wild animals you don't have to put an animal in a zoo in order for you to go and feel it in fact two worries like coming to Kenya because our wildlife are in the natural habitats and they enjoy seeing them in the natural it's a different experience from being a zoo neither may also promoting that you can actually have animals as pets so we have dogs and cats in our homes let the ones that are in the natural wild remain in its natural habitat you understand the dynamics they live in and just enjoy understanding them they are very nice, they are beautiful lessons you can learn from animals and that's another session that I can take you right from the dik dik that are paid for life a very good example of how to have a happy marriage and pigeons and dove that have good very nice love stories for life it's for life it's for life they are very interesting stories for elephants I mean the matriarch which is the female it's the one that leads the herd not the bull so there are different stories you can learn from each other and apply them in life okay guys just in case you've missed this part please don't just go drinking and then say hi to a lion don't do it someone painted a dog the color of a cheetah and then released it when the people were coming home oh my gosh it did not work out very well for our people under the influence but in case you actually do meet a lion please don't figure out just be cool be calm and it's not just lions just animals in general if my ancestor we need to talk but aside from that just be cool and calm so what is a normal day for Steve look like in terms of wildlife preservation a normal day for me I'll talk about before COVID was being out there in the world all the things that I'm describing to you I experienced that enjoy it by just being out there watching engaging talking with people trying to look for sustainable solutions to address the growing wildlife conflict and always engaging with government to look for sustainable solutions you know we are right now at crossroads where infrastructure developments and the needs of human beings are now stretching and beginning to interfere with the habitat for wildlife and you always find ourselves on a collision path whether we want to build a road whether we want to build a standard gage railway whether we want to build a pipeline it's good for human development and also for the economy but we find ourselves in conflicts on an everyday basis I'm always thinking about government and trying to see how do we get government decisions being compatible also with wildlife and how do we engage without speaking at each other and where we find that things have gone beyond the levels that we anticipated then we have to look for solutions and that means we have to look for opportunities always sit down and discuss so right now there is a matter we are discussing which is in court I cannot talk about it of a developer who wants to grow avocado and vegetables on an elephant migratory corridor from where we stand from that's it's going to increase conflict that's a very interesting but I can't talk about that matter because it's in court and we are also part and parcel I understand but those are the kind of issues that we find on a daily basis final one is just enlightening Kenyans I love talking to Kenyans particularly the young people this is your only opportunity to visit them as Amara right now particularly when there are no tourists coming the costs have reduced drastically alright take advantage of this particular time to visit these places try and understand what is it that people spend lots of money to come to Kenya every now and then to see visit the parks when you've got time visit and really really have an interaction with nature and wildlife and by the time you come it clears your mind and it relaxes it suits you and then after that when you go and have your beer if you drink beer that's okay if you have tea you are a tea toddler like me or coffee and you have your coffee you are still fine but don't stress yourself in the hustles try to fetch a living get out there in the world and relax your mind it's therapeutic it's a joy infact even the places I've lived I like living around it's good but I kind of really like that vibe okay I want to work backwards so you've talked about tourism and I really want to applaud that you are trying to engage trying to ask us to go see Tembera Kenya because according to social media the places to be need to buy but there's that where else just places that are not Kenya and you'd be very very surprised that your home is even more beautiful than the countries that we are struggling or you want to go see or you've already gone to see so pitch one more time one more time for just how beautiful the country is because it really is beautiful from the mountains to the valleys that's a rift valley to the Indian ocean and then we talk about deserts we also have a desert in Kenya Chalbi desert use Google map it will guide you to know where Chalbi desert is it's a tamak road it's a tamak road from Nairobi all the way to Marsabit get to Marsabit and begin to look for Chalbi desert desert experience you don't have to go the way to Dubai you are safe and there is no corona in Chalbi alright or you don't have to go the way to Namibia to experience what the bushmen go through just go there to Chalbi desert it's a nice experience for some of us who've been there go to like Turkana one of those neglected areas beautiful scenaries right from the valleys and everything in fact when Safarikum did its first calendar and they took pictures of Turkana people were thinking this can't be Kenya certainly not Kenya Kenya is beautiful is endowed with a lot of interesting places you can visit it's endowed with a lot of culture where you can learn as part of history go and learn your history Kenya is losing its history much more faster go and learn your history in fact the other day when we were in a function with the cabinet secretary many there is a generation in Kenya that doesn't know that actually the first capital city of Kenya was actually Machakos Machakos was in the desert no I'm sorry the first capital city was actually Machakos it's only when the standard gauge rail will reach Nairobi that's when the capital city was shifted from Machakos to Nairobi and now you can understand why there is a connection between Machakos and Nairobi that you can't tell the difference growing population is living in that area so get to know your history because as you visit other places and you say you are a Kenyan the first thing they will ask you and then the next thing they ask you wildlife are you getting it that's what Kenya is known for sasugi enda palu this is no ma swani now don't embarrass us so get to know your country and as you visit the dubais as you visit South Africa you go to market also Kenya you are an ambassador of Kenya so create a brand for Kenya and speak about it you can only speak about it if you visit these places if you know the places that I'm talking about so that when people come they are not just coming for wildlife tourism but they are also coming for cultural tourism and they are also coming just to enjoy the coming free spirit of Kenyans I like the places that you've mentioned but at first glance it doesn't sound like some I want to go turkana, prasna, skia, joto aguna raji, aguna tabula the only thing I see is this try at a netflix at a netflix utawana pali internet windo na itaji at a netflix utawana pali your portrait you can still continue watching it there you're smart, I like that it's only internet that you need these places, there's nothing you miss from Nairobi when you go out I like that and I like the aspect of traveling it kind of makes you feel that all your problems when you're by yourself and all your problems in your head and you think the world is ending but you travel when you see things you meet people and they become this big your problems this big guys, this big so tembera kenya, takani kwaploti let's start from tembera tukwaploti wuki edara in conclusion would you like us to remember from this conversation like I said the only way you can tell the kenyan story from a cultural practice from what we believe in as kenyans and what we do as kenyans is for you to dig a noble you want to know why why samburus must give an ivory ring before they say I do go to the samburus and ask them you want to find out why we are now running away from killing lions to prove manhood go find it, they are now having what we call the masai maraton join them in the masai maraton and appreciate so don't just stick on to your comfort zone get out of your comfort zone and begin to understand other people that's my rally call and also don't just look at conservation organizations like myself people who are there to serve the musungu community the wildlife resource belongs to the people of kenya kenya wildlife service are just custodians they are managing it on behalf of kenyans so kenyans have a voice on how the government and how the agencies manage the natural resources because the benefits accruing from these natural resources support all of us so this is your resource that I'm speaking to you about and you need to take responsibility in terms of how the government is handling it finally ensure that you don't destroy it why life is god given the moment you destroy it's gone and it's gone right now kenya is struggling so hard to rebuild the population of the northern white rhino because there are only two left and they are in all pajeta but they meted we are still waiting but it won't be the same as the original northern white rhino it will be different because science is coming and appreciates the role of science but it won't be the same so once you destroy it it's gone yesterday we were seeing a picture on the fig tree in westlands that is going to be cut because of the Nairobi expressway that is going to cut you never have a fig tree like that again once you cut it that's it that's how natural resources are some are renewable some are not renewable so watch out it's unfair that we have to choose between making our lives easier with resources and nature it's unfair but it is what it is lastly please do give us your social media so we can get into contact with you follow up what you're doing maybe even offer support where we can excellent you can follow me on facebook or twitter my login details please do follow me and let's interact from that level if you need to be exposed on what conservation organizations are doing please let me know we will involve you if you are looking for opportunities to volunteer and learn more you want to get interested in conservation issues please tag in with us connect you with the membership you'll be able to do that but please make a date if you are in Nairobi go to Nairobi National Park if you are in Nakuru go to Nakuru National Park and understand why the water levels are rising and why the headquarters is submerged in water if you are in Savo if you are in Amboseli if you are in Likipia enjoy the Likipia beautiful scenery if you are in western Kenya enjoy western Kenya and the culture and visit Kisumu Kisumu is going to become the hub of tourism very soon and they are going to introduce what we call boats for you to move around the East African region interesting things are coming if you are in Rumah enjoy the run until up which is unique only in the Rumah and part of the Shimbahils if you are in Kuala enjoy the coast and the marine life unique species now we can actually spot dolphins in our Indian Ocean that's so cool but you have a lot of information you have a lot of information this is what I want to pour out I like that so what you put in is what comes out remember that always guys so we gotta leave we gotta go we've had too much fun told him 20 minutes but it's been well over 20 minutes I didn't know he was this funny I could find us on White 54 Facebook White 54 channel on Twitter hashtag and even then you must stay white because we have a lot a lot a lot prepared just for you