 I just ask you to be brief in the in the questions and then you have time for for discussions and more questions. Is there anyone interested? Yes, James. Hi, James Thilip from UNU Wider. To the first speaker from Tunisia, I worry a lot about using historical data to make projections about what climate policy might do for economic growth for example because I mean as we've been hearing from a lot of people we're talking about a revolution or a transformation a new way of doing things and so to some extent your your economic structure of your economy is built on the back of old energy prices. If you significantly alter those energy prices you change the structure, you transform the economy and so the losses that that that you project in in growth or GDP may be quite overstated because we may have a significant shift in the in the whole structure of the economy. A transformation. Just pick up a few more questions. Anyone else? No? Okay, and then maybe could answer this question. Do I wait to see if anyone else would be interested in this question? This is a good question, yes. But here the my study is not based in the projections it's based in the to study the only the relationship with the causality between the transport energy consumption and the transport value added and the CO2 emissions but not a model for do the to construct a scenarios and to simulate the effect on the if there is an increase of energy consumption what's the effect on a economy growth or on transport value added and maybe the question also to integrate the price the price the energy prices with the also the other variable is a good idea maybe to to see what's the effect on of the energy prices on energy consumption but the problem even in Tunisia or in developing countries energy prices are not really high to maybe usually we ask to increase the energy price and the last month the inner the government has increased the energy prices toward you for because it has a lack of public finance but even in Tunisia when we increase the energy prices does not affect really the the consumption of in the route transport because the route transport mainly is based in fossil fuels mainly this is why I I want to we want to study the relationship between energy consumption and and transport value added to see whether if we reduce energy energy consumption using instrument economics carbon taxes or if there is a reduction on transport value added here there is mainly and when in this case reducing energy consumption in the transport sector is not a good policy maybe the development of infrastructure or the development in infrastructure or the also the development of the renewable resources maybe will be better than reducing fossil fuel energy consumption comment okay we have a question in the back and anyone else you just get one by one thank you very much my question is directed to introduce yourself okay I'm baller what today from investor of Ibadu Nigeria and my question is for Daramola from Nigeria it was indeed a very beautiful presentation and it beats the division from what we usually have in terms of climate change while your recommendation is quite plausible in a sense that you were trying to introduce the use of a public transport in order to mitigate or reduce the climate change effect however I want to ask you looking at your data having introduced the bear routine Lagos I wish you also presented your paper has there been a reduction in the carbon dioxide emission as a result of that so whereby this will be able to maybe allow your policy recommendation to have a good to be a good one thank you for the question reduction in carbon dioxide emissions we don't measure annually that would it's in fact carbon dioxide emission figures are not they're not they're not as composite as they should be in Nigeria this is just from the transport sector we do have emissions from fossil fuels but I can't say precisely that we there's been there's been an analysis of what's how the out the emissions have reduced or increased since BRT wasn't introduced BRT was introduced only 2008 and it's only accounting for 2.3 percent of trips so if it's going to have any significant effect at all it has to be promoted I'm kind of pose a question to the speakers to to any of them it's interesting the quote that I saw another day that's say a developed country is not a place where the poor have cars it is where the rich use public or normal to rise transportation in your opinion what kind of transformations you need in particularly in cities in order to to make this a reality but what what what kind of public transport yeah to make this a reality make it actually is like the the that the poor don't need a car to get to the everyone needs a car to actually access to transportation where they're actually the rich the people that are get rich then they be willing to use the public transportation not just the question of maybe giving the the roads or giving the the BRT but how to actually put these people on the buses yeah I think the only way to do it to do that in Nigeria is to provide incentives for public transport use and disincentives for private car use if we have parking charges for example even in office complexes and leaving leaving the private car is he's going to be hard work for any policymaker to achieve in Lagos because the car owner syndrome is very strong in the city like Lagos everybody wants to be comfortable and there's a strong and growing middle class and since public transport is not as decent they just have to go for private car so the public transport must be made decent if it's decent enough competitive if there are priority lanes for them and people are experiencing reduced trip times you know using the buses and then they have to pay if they use the private car then they might consider leaving their cars yes that's pretty interesting question such transformations are already seen for example if you look at Delhi for example they have created a system where different sections of the society have started using they say metro in Delhi your question being as the people's income level increases even how to draw them towards public transportation anyway poor people are using public transportation for their needs as they grow in an income ground how to draw them towards public transport is you have to incentivize them by means of travel time I think cutting down and travel time is one of the major incentive for them to use public transport if not for the comfort of not driving themselves for example in Mumbai for a person to travel to go to work they would prefer a metro the rail system compared to driving themselves because it cuts down the travel time by 50% that's why Mumbai traditionally is a metro city to begin with I think such incentivization within the system is more important to draw people towards public transportation than you know talking about the quality of it and all that quality arguments it subsequently but I think such that's that's what is my opinion about how to draw people towards public transportation for the development of transport public also in Tunisia is a problem for example why transport sector here the transport public sector is not developed for example in Tunisia for the reason I think say because the the company which sell the cars are mainly the private property for the the policy makes if we develop the the transport public they cannot sell the cars this is the mainly the main problem for not develop to not develop the transport public the main reason why transport public is not developed because a question try to address the issue that you mentioned before that not only provide a public transportation but I think you need the disincentive for using cars for example you have Singapore that people see in an example they have a lot of disincentives high tax on car and also the the congestion charge like London others but the number of cars increasing even with this because now people cannot afford and actually I was reading also in China in China the they are projecting is going to have 800 million cars in 20 years where on the streets you're going to put 800 million cars I was reading even Volkswagen there the president of Volkswagen say okay it's our main market now but you have to start thinking you're gonna have a hundred million cars maybe people you think that's not and the idea is how actually make this balance the disincentives the use of cars towards public transportation I think this is also key not only provide the public transportation but find a way that you could make people not having their cars because if not they the trend is that they're going to use like and in many countries now you have issues related to where you park those cars when China is when I was in city in China big city and now the cars were bikes course before now I have car parking and the people actually walk on the street and a few bikes so they'll walk on the street because like the sidewalks are used for for the cars and then what kind of transformation I know that the issue related to fuel or incomes affects the way people do transportation but I think there are other paths of development that you need to start looking at particularly in the transportation sector as you organize know and then this should be an important point. The problem in developing countries the number of cars for by habitant is lower than more than in the developed countries for example if we take China and France I think in France for five people there is a car if in China for five people there is a car it will be problem in all the world it will be problem for the claim mainly for claimant change this is why we will if we for example for all the world if we if we try to have a problem mainly the problem is to invest in other sources of energy for cars for example for the biofuelism and the development of structure for the development of transport public in mainly in the developing countries which are populated like Nigeria India Pakistan you made a remark interesting remark that Singapore the number of cars is rising in Singapore in spite of disincentivising the owning a car that's actually draws focus on the fact that as long as a United States have two cars on an average per household but another state increasing their per capita incomes and people always wish to have their own car so in a way out of box one has to think instead of disincentive incentivizing owning a car it is better to present a situation where they have easy access to public transport they may have a car but they may not use it as often as they use it today because the access to public transport is not as good I think we can't control people from having car because they have a desire and they have income no incentive would be a long-term effect to in that I think instead of uses it can be controlled by you know make access to public transport more easy that's what compact cities talks about is it thank you all right thank you my name is Akinde Jifalaki from Abuja Nigeria well I'm I just wanted to make a comment may I've not heard any of the three presenters we've looked at an exhaust between public transport or transport generally and climate change has been a contributing factor and also transportation being at the receiving end of climate change and I'm just wondering why maybe I didn't hear that nobody has really promoted the good old working as simple as that or even taking motorcycles bicycles as simple as that I know Lagos I know massive cities including the other city but somebody know that positive things we can get because we're talking about development health issues you probably will be stronger probably will be healthier and sometimes we if we really also make it promote it in a way that people can accept that I can take a stroll why take a motorcycle that motorcycles we have in Nigeria to stroke engine very poisonous emissions so maybe I think we can also have that what you can just take a walk why hop into a vehicle or or something and then use of bicycles at least for short distances okay thank you have an hour James me again James I guess a question to to the presentation on India I mean you gave some estimates on how much carbon might be avoided if or wouldn't be admitted if we can make the switch say to non-motorized transport and so on and I I wonder and it's talking about changing behavior and how difficult that is and you recognize that yourself and so inside some of your calculations you've must have made some some assumptions about how behavior might change and I'm wondering how easy is it in your maybe from your knowledge or or how easy would you imagine it to be to be able to convince something like Jeff to give you money to to invest in these kind of projects when you know you're making assumptions about human behavior that maybe as Jose was saying they just simply will not change okay because this is interesting if you could develop and path cities like developing word here get Copenhagen Copenhagen developed what putting cars on the street and certain point like 20 30 years ago starting going back to walk on bicycle now they promote bicycle many mean they have this curve but actually developing countries had like countries had traditionally used bicycle China and others have seen it losing this tradition to use cars but later on in the future they they may have go have go back invest to actually get the bike back but how actually avoid this path that the first question about walking yes 80% of work trips made by urban slum urban poor people in Mumbai is scattered by walking means 80% of people going for work go by walk so walking is always there it's not discounted okay in my presentation also as I mentioned that essentially includes walking as well okay so by promoting this so-called urban poor using walking as a mode to go to work right now the conditions are not good enough but if you make the conditions better even the non-poor could actually work for example access to the metro station people could walk if the conditions are good so we always promote walking it's not discounted at any point in time coming to the question of assumptions made to well any estimation comes with assumptions and our assumptions are not as robust we must confess this is aimed at giving an indicated number and if you attempt such retrofitting what could be a possible degree of benefits what we assumed there is there's no resistance as such in the sense if we convert it to this what happens now the behavioral pattern and resistance to change is considered in terms of barriers what are the barriers that essentially reflect in the behavioral change resistance of that we found that it is not safe so people refuse to change to bicycle because it is not safe okay so in order to avoid the popular barrier how do we inculcate the habit of going by bicycle in people there are a list of policies that we talked about like you know create kind of respect to those people who bicycle right now in the conditions are such if you use bicycle you will be treated like an inferior creature on the road change that if you change that that assumption is already taken care so in our study we did not portray that it can be done this is a potential way to do it but in have in case we have to do it these are the barriers that you need to address by means of certain policies that we talked about all right possibility of gf we have already done a project on including improving roads with corridors for walking and accounted for jhz benefits and that became part of gf project in one of the sustainable cities project in India which was done by the urban urban development ministry and UNDP in the office it is possible but not done so much as I said co-benefits quantification I was telling Joe's in the morning co-benefits quantification mechanisms are not in place as yet it is being developed but potentially here okay I want to respond to the discuments as well what is from Nigeria and he knows that the distances people move between their homes and their workplaces are quite they are quite far apart and Lagos has developed us and on team city like many urban centers in Nigeria too and they are fundamental planning issues we have people living in the mega city region as far as people go 30 kilometers to work every day you can't promote walking for those kind of people it's not possible it's not visible so what we're thinking of like I said medium term light rail because the real structure is already on ground it's not operational it's been it's been refurbished now but it's still the traditional system about 50 kilometers per hour it's not the ice bit type now if you could improve that infrastructure the truth is Lagosians people who live in Lagos are tired of driving they're tired of driving long distances people wake up and leave their houses 5 a.m. in the morning even though they're not going to resume on the later him but they have to be traffic and it's it's a lot of stress physiologically and physically and so if it really like my colleague said if there's access to decent public transports convenient public transports I think some people will actually leave their cars and get on the train if that works for example okay just going to lead it going to the end of the session I just put here a few points that to kind of summarize the discussions we had here five points I think that's easy the presentation discussion here show that there is this clear link between transportation climate change economic development at two of transportation the tree is show these and also this transportation is has been a growing contribution to general greenhouse gas emissions in those country developing countries you see three countries here where this is happening now like more and more transportation contributing particularly urban transportation and the main causes is exactly because when you get richer in general road transportation is the mean that people choose to to move around and individual modes of transportation particularly cars this is another point as you showed it to a transfer the presentations the way cities have been built and I think the institutions there is very important particularly the way cities are built and also the kind of incentives that you have to move to as you developed not go to the sustainable path but but continuing the sustainable path like no motorized and public transportation be used why that we need you mentioned GF but for some CDM clean developed mechanism there is very few projects on transportation deli metro extra was the first project to register and there are only a couple of others a very few projects on transportation buildings also into some sector of like transportation has not been at the core of these international mechanisms I think is that one of the issues exactly how to measure is very costly to me RV they call measure report will verify when transportation is really difficult and show that actually the change was caused by the mode of transportation these institutions they'll have actually don't don't help but they also the fifth point is there are actually opportunities to do that you see that many countries consider a BRT and other modes of public transportation prioritized and also I start seeing people talked about the no motorized modes in planning this is what something that cities was for cars not for people but now people planners and planner plan and start talking again how to actually as keep those modes as you develop don't depend on car and there are a lot of issues there are a lot of opportunities that actually not with a lot of money that there are a lot of win-win situations that you can stay in the sustainable path or don't you just don't know if any of you went to say any last point 32nd each and then you close kind of inflammatory point that why CDM is short and admin transportation projects is one school of thought is for every dollar you put the return in terms of CO2 coming from urban transport sector is the least compared to forestry and other sectors that's one reason why it is not so prominent in CDM projects the second reason is if you actually account for the social benefits coming out of urban transportation infrastructure development it will definitely or all other sectors as well as social benefit is concerned but CDM strategically does not account for social benefit altogether social well-being that's one of the criticism CDM takes when it comes to urban transportation so it's not that methodology yes methodological issues are always there but more than that other side of the story is basically this apart from that as I said urban transportation is growing as you as a contributor in the developing world but I must reiterate we all must reiterate the fact that the urban sector urban transportation sector in the industrialized world is equally contributing we are just going there but somebody else is already there so our effort is basically not to reach that level but slightly and settle for a slightly lower level of emissions there thank you maybe in the developing countries and citation mechanism don't work well because there is not alternative to the private car there is not a public transport which develop it which we can use it and don't use the car this is also an important point many okay that's the end of the session I would like to thank the orders and the speakers for the interest in discussion thank you