 Hello to India, South Africa, to Michigan, to Hungary, hi to Germany, Canada, Spain, Bulgaria. Okay, very international crowd, happy to have you here. Okay, now time to get started. Hello again and thank you everybody for joining. We're delighted to share this webinar with you with Lina from the Saurin Foundation, which I will introduce in a moment. But first, and if you joined our previous webinars, you know that we have some housekeeping. So first of all, I would like to emphasize that everybody is welcome in our global hyperledger community. We strive to create a safe and welcoming environment for everybody. So we are inviting you to check our code of conduct, which you can find on our website and on our Wiki as well. All of the Linux, all of the hyperledger webinars are held under the Linux Foundation Antitrust Policy, which you can find on our website and on our Wiki as well. This session is being recorded and the recording will be available on our YouTube channel as well as on our webinar library along with the slides, which you can also download. The webinar is also being a live stream on YouTube and hello to everybody joining us live from there as well. Please use your chat to ask any questions you might have from Linen. Now, we encourage these webinars to be very interactive. So please stay active and to get the most out of it. If you would like to speak, just raise your hand, I will unmute you and you're welcome to speak up. And of course, the more activity we have, the better experience for everybody. If you don't like to speak, you're also welcome to use the chat button or the Q&A button and we will attend to your questions at the end. And again, for those of us joining on YouTube, please feel free to also use the chat to ask the questions and I will ask Linen at the end as well. Now, without further ado, I would like to introduce Linen, who is a trustee at the Sovereign Foundation. Happy to have you here, Linen. And well, a word to you. Thank you so much and thank you to the Hyperledger Foundation for allowing me to share this work that we did in Sovereign Foundation. I will share my screen. And I think we're good to go. Yes, you can see your screen, yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for allowing me to share this work on the sovereign principles of SSI. The topic will be a human rights-based approach to governance of digital identity systems. My name is Lina Kofo, I'm Danish, hence the difficult last name, based on the Netherlands since 1984. I have a master in philosophy from the Leiden University and from 1995. I am co-owner of a voiceover key company called Budget Phone Company, I have been there since 2002 and also a co-founder of Blockzone since 2017, was specialized in trusted communications, identified communications and as such we participated in a project in the Netherlands on trusted communications and received a grant from SF Lab in 2021 to combine SSI technology with protocol with DITCOM. So that is the use case that brought me into Sovereign. We have been a sovereign steward since 2020 and I joined as a trustee and treasurer and secretary in 2021 and I joined the governance framework working group who have been a co-chair since 2021 and developed the human rights-based principles of SSI in 2021. So in order to talk about the topic for today, just a moment please. I would like to provide some context into the sovereign foundation. Sovereign foundation is a nonprofit civil organization incorporated in 2016 in Utah and the US. Mission is identity for all and the way the sovereign foundation provides that is by providing a global utility for digital identity. Sovereign mainnet has been active since 2017. It is a public permission network based on Hyperledger, any of which ever known sovereign was the original sponsor. So sovereign is a Hyperledger foundation associate member. The network consists of builder net, test net and mainnet, 36 nodes operated by sovereign stewards in 16 countries. It supports the use of dates, verifiable credentials, Hyperledger areas and ennequettes and won't go too deeply into the technology today. It is all about the governance. So let me see. I think I just lost my comments. So the sovereign stewards are a very diverse group representing a lot of various industries. I will just share something about the diversity of sovereign. You can see the industries are from various types but also from very high level governance demanding sectors such as financial services and banking. We keep a close eye on the diversity of the mainnet and for that reason we present here, we split the diversity check into geographic spread as well as jurisdiction or dictionary spread. I will just need to just a moment please. I can get my speaker note. Sorry. So what you see is a global setup that is the context of sovereign. Sovereign, just a moment please. I just need to get this one going again. Sorry. I guess you can see my screen. Yes, we can see your screen there. I lost my notes just a minute. All right. So the global setting for sovereign means sovereign operates across various jurisdictions, standardization bodies, geopolitical interests, very important and various trust communities. Our global board, an international board has trustees ranging from Canada to India, EU, UK and Switzerland. Sankashan Mukopati is my co-chair in the sovereign governance framework and we've been working together on the topic that we speak about today. So who gets to decide on sovereign? Sovereign has a board of trustees. The governing authority is that board of trustees and it governs all participants in the sovereign ecosystem. So it maintains the sovereign governance framework of which we have developed two, one for the ecosystem and one for the utility. The sovereign ecosystem governance framework receives proposals from the governance framework working group and the Stuart council and the sovereign utility governance framework receives proposals from the technical governance board and the Stuart council and all decisions are made by the sovereign board of trustees. So the governance framework itself consists of the more of a glossary and primary documents and business and technical policies and legal agreements with the participants including data processing agreements. So this is the, let's say the four layers of the tech stack in sovereign. Sovereign, like I said, operates a public blockchain, a public readable blockchain and commissioned writing blockchain. It is possible to store a public DITS on the blockchain and of course, no personal data goes on the blockchain, no private keys. So only data that must be public such as the public DITS, the credential definitions for verifiable credentials, schemas and revocation registries and entries. So the two governance frameworks we developed is one is for the layer one and the second one is for layer four. So the topic for today is how can you create by space governance and how can it guide the risk assessments and dictate policy requirements for digital identity systems. In 2021, UN Secretary General Guterres signaled the breakdown of trust in the way humans organize themselves or we organize ourselves in societies. So from a societal perspective, how we organize ourselves will inevitably be, that we will give up some freedoms in exchange for protection. In a world where transactions in daily life are often digitalized, the focus has come to lie on data and data protection, but the new social contract that is needed what not only needs to provide protection, but also actively establish the means and mechanisms for human agency. That is not only in the interest of, let's say, every single human, but from the societal point as well, enable societies to fulfill their role of protection. So digital identity systems will play an essential role in this and the choice is made for one system about another must be based on discussions in which a broad societal representation can oversee this development. So sovereign, this is from the sovereign governance framework, sovereign foundation is an on-profit that has one mission, identity for all. The principle method that sovereign uses to realize this mission is by providing a global utility for digital identity. That may enable humans to exercise their human rights. So this is what we're going to show today how we envision that. Sovereign foundation aims to provide and support technical and governance mechanisms that allow people and organizations to make transactions in such a way that both parties remain sovereign and in agreement with their own rules and jurisdiction. Sovereign foundation also has its own jurisdiction in a sense, its own constitution and its own agreements with participants. These documents regulate the rights and duties of the participants in the sovereign ecosystem. The governance frameworks make up the rulebook of sovereign foundation. So in that sense, speaking of self sovereignty, it has many names. There are many principles of SSI. And this is the way that we see the way that you can understand sovereign to be, you can be your own authority within your own jurisdiction. So the sovereign ecosystem governance framework is developed according to a cascade of questions that aim to provide transparency to anyone who reads it and tries to understand it, but also to lead the community through the documents. Who gets to decide at the end the policies that need to be updated and how it's done. That is very much in order for the board of trustees to be agile and able to enforce policies. So for that, a risk assessment is carried out based on information from the governing bodies but also for the purpose of public oversight. A risk assessment is not only to the availability of the utility of which we have 100% uptime, but it is also to the risk to the sustainability over time of the ecosystem itself around the utility. So for now, we concentrate on the risk assessment with regards to abiding by the ecosystem principles. All governance documents can be commented on online on the website. And the board has a monthly meeting with the community in order to be vigilant about anything needed to be updated and revised in the governance policies. So like I said, principles of SSI, there are many building on the laws of identity by Kim Kerman and the principles of governance. By Kim Kerman and the principles for self-sovereign identity by Christopher Allen and various writings from sovereign by Phil Windley, Drummond Reed and Andrew Tobin. In 2020, the 12 principles of SSI were developed and published. In 2021, the working group for the ecosystem governance framework reorganized the principles, reordered them in order to serve the purpose of enabling human agency, autonomy and integrity. So the principles are defined. We will see that in a little while. The principles are defined as a set of claims that digital identity ecosystems can be expected to adhere to and can also be held accountable for. So enabling societies and securing human agency, autonomy and integrity is the purpose of this set of principles. The infographic itself was developed to enable the discussion, the conversation between stakeholders and users, regulators, technologists in order to be able to pinpoint possible harms, but also possible benefits of SSI. So the way we interpreted it is that every human being has rights to agency, to study, work, vote, travel, receive healthcare without bias. So the first section on the agency is removing the negative influence on agency. The second one, autonomy is interpreted as every human being has the right to freedom of choice, free of coercion. The third, integrity, every human being has the right to be protected and preserve integrity. So as we will see in the next slides, these have been defined as claims that a ecosystem should be able to make and otherwise be questioned about. So the first section is about agency. Representation is number one. It is, as it were, the membership card to be a participant in an active life. So when SSI ecosystem shall provide the means for any entity, human, legal, natural, physical, or digital to be represented by any number of digital identities. The second one on delegation this pertains to the same principle, but it specifies something that we need when we talk about a digital identity, namely the possibility of delegating if you are not able to act yourself. So an SSI ecosystem shall empower entities who have natural human or legal rights in relation to their identity, defined as identity right holders to control users of their digital identity data and exert this control by employing and or delegating to agents and guardians of their choice, including individuals, organizations, devices, and software. So that might apply to legal arrangements. It may also apply to an employer and an employee and safeguarding their actions by making sure that the actions that they have already been allowed to perform are actually also secured through a technical means. Equity and inclusion, an SSI system shall not exclude or discriminate against identity rights holders within its governance scope. Well, I think we are all well aware of the possible exclusion and bias that needs to be prevented. Usability, accessibility and consistency, an SSI ecosystem shall maximize usability and accessibility of agents and other SSI components for identity rights holders, including consistency of user experience. Again, a very large part of the population is not able to access, for instance, online services or don't have a smartphone to use a digital wallet. So the SSI ecosystem must foresee and that lack of ability. Something that is also of importance is, for instance, in the ecosystem governance framework to be able to understand the language that it's written in so that it is possible to evaluate or assess whether the ecosystem is performing as it should. Autonomy pertains to maintaining the freedom of choice. So this one is about preventing vendor login, ledger login, and also to prevent the enforcement or coercion to participate in an ecosystem. So the first one is about participation. An ecosystem, SSI ecosystem shall not require reliance on a centralized system to present, control, or verify an entity's digital identity data. With regards to this principle, I think, maybe the foundational principle is that we need to be able to understand and understand what is happening and what is happening. Maybe the foundational principle in SSI that there is no reliance on a centralized system in such a way that no knowledge is built or surveillance is possible through a centralized system. So this is decentralization is one of the principles that is very much discussed, whether what it means and which layer it's important to have decentralization. And of course in sovereign, there is decentralization in the setup of the networks, but the foundational one is the decentralization in the trust triangle. So interoperability and SSI ecosystem shall enable digital identity data for an entity to be represented, exchanged, secured, protected, and verified interoperably using open public and royalty-free standards. That is something that has worked on very much as we know in the world of digital identity at the moment. There's a real rush to try to create interoperability and that should be one of the foremost principles for the ecosystem to be willing in and able to participate in that combined effort. Portability and SSI ecosystem shall not restrict the ability of identity rights holders to move or transfer a copy of their digital identity data to the agents or systems of their tools. Integrity is the third section has to do with protection of course there is a security aspect and SSI ecosystem shall empower identity rights holders to secure their digital identity data at rest and in motion to control their own identifiers and encryption keys and to employ into encryption for all interactions. Verifiability and authenticity and SSI ecosystem shall empower identity rights holders to provide the revival proof of the authenticity of their digital identity data. Privacy and minimal disclosure and SSI ecosystem shall empower identity rights holders to protect the privacy of their digital identity data and to share the minimum digital identity data required for any particular interaction. That is also a foundational principle in SSI to provide that control to the holder of the credential of choosing and be protected in sharing any data. Transparency is also something that is foundational to security as and also to the identity rights holder to be able to see and to understand what is going on in the ecosystem. And SSI ecosystem shall empower identity rights holders and all the other stakeholders to easily access and verify information necessary to understand the incentives, rules, policies and algorithms under which agents and other components of SSI ecosystems operate. So in order for the, to see the, the foundation of the, for instance, the decision making in an ecosystem or to see how certain interests may influence the decisions, it's important to be able to see that and transparency again at various levels of course on a blockchain such as sovereign operated the transparency is a must. It's possible to check what's on the letter and to see what's going on. So an example, I would like to give you an example and to see what's going on. So an example I would like to share is how we do that, how we secure that the principles are used for risk assessment and how they dictate how policies are adapted or updated. So as an example, I've chosen agency and then the second principle delegation. So an SSI ecosystem shall empower entities who have natural human or legal rights in relation to their identity, identity right holders to control uses of their digital identity data and exert this control by employing and or delegating to agents and guardians of their choice including individuals, organizations, devices and software. So the objective is that each entity can mandate or have mandated for them a legal guardian the risk of the ecosystem not providing these means to act on behalf of someone else is a risk to everybody involved. So in the case of, for instance, an employer and an employee not only the two participants will not be safeguarded if there is not a means to secure that their mandate is technically verifiable. It means that both parties will be vulnerable to any legal claims. So the policy requirement is that the ecosystem must provide an agent method that will enable the enforcement of legal arrangements of guardianship and delegation roles. Within sovereign we have the sovereign guardianship working group, they've produced a white paper and have also produced an implementation guidelines, documents and technical requirements. So that's an example of how the agency requirements how to technically embed that enable that possibility is dictated more or less by the principles and will end up being a requirement to the ecosystem to provide that. So I think I got to the end of my presentation. I would like to invite you to join me on LinkedIn or join sovereign. You may take a look at the sovereign mainnet transactions through the link you can sign up for a sovereign newsletter reach out to us for a call or simply join us in the working group. Well, thank you. Yeah, thank you very much, Liné. So we got a couple of questions here in the Q&A box if maybe you can address them and I saw in the chat we have a couple as well. And Brett, I can tell you, I can already answer your question. The presentation, the Google Doc will be available on our webinar library probably tomorrow or the day after tomorrow along with the presentation recording. Okay, Liné, would you like to take the other ones? I hope I can answer those just a moment, please. Hi, Imran. Yes, sovereign is a public readable blockchain but a permissioned write blockchain. So that means that anyone can read and certain rules are authorized to write to the blockchain. Those rules, authorization rules are all public as well and you can check them online. Does it support privacy? Yes, it does. That is the whole setup of the sovereign components and the components around hyperledger areas and an encrypts, zero-knowledge proof, et cetera. So yes, Karlin, Karlin is the SSI and sovereign mainly oriented for humans. Well, it's digital identity. It's also applicable to IoT and animals. So it's specifically mentioned in the principles that it is for everyone but let's say the foundational principles of the human rights are leading. So I hope that answers your question. Jim, I don't see how sovereign supports a legal jurisdiction as issuer of identity and credentials, hyperledger in the US is a financial but has specific legal requirements and establishes a relationship with compliance on those agencies. Yes, so maybe the term legal jurisdiction I used the term jurisdiction in the sense that it's an organization such as sovereign, for instance, has its own jurisdiction and its own rules and laws. I think you referred to legal jurisdiction in the sense of national laws. Yes, please give an example. I don't know. Jim, we can also unmute you if you would like to talk. There you go. Thanks. So the simple example, I worked for a state on using basically, we did a quote, a very valuable POC for identity, both for individuals for the state of Rhode Island and corporate entities. And as part of our, I'll call it problem domain, it wasn't just that I had to issue a credential which is easily done through sovereign. So we can set up the status as an issuer in sovereign. And issue you a permanent identity, if you will, in the sovereign network, which is fine. And with Aries, we get the wallets and all the other stuff, sort of the mechanics are there. The problem is that an awful lot of identity involves relationships between you and other identities, which is all about credentials. So as an example, I was using in the text the idea that let's pretend Jim works as a hyper ledger foundation. And so that's a relationship and that would be a credential, you know, that they've hired me and they can remove the credential at a point. So that credential exists. The problem with a couple of things that showed up in the Rhode Island work was you have to have a way to establish those relationships, which looks like that's sort of outside of sovereign completely in a sense, you can issue the credential, but the relationship of that credential says Jim actually works as part of that organization. I can either be what I call a contract relationship, I can be a member, whatever it is, but none of that is in the scope of sovereign at all. So that means it's a different model, if you will. So for a lot of the work I do in the financial services area, people are looking at Glythe as a different model because Glythe, while it's a smaller sort of domain than sovereign is in terms of what it's trying to manage. It's focused on what I call legal identity management, which is really what we hit in the state of Rhode Island. So beyond just issuing you an ID personally and saying, hey, you're a legal resident of Rhode Island, that relationship exists in the did. Beyond that, everything else around the credentials says we have these other relationships that we have to somehow manage. And Glythe does do that. They have a relationship model that in a sense, sovereign doesn't have, if that makes sense. That's interesting. I would say I view Glythe as an issuer. And of course the issuer can set up separate mechanisms. That is indeed beyond the scope of sovereign. So it's within the realm of the third layer. So back to your point about sovereign principles, the only thing I don't know, because we never certainly tested it, we didn't actually play with Glythe, but Glythe is getting what I call wide use for legal identities now, legal entity identities. And as a result, the interoperability between what I call a sovereign did and a Glythe did becomes fairly important. Do you know what I mean? So for me, going the next route with the state would be to say two things. One, let's look at the interoperability between the did we got from sovereign with Jim Mason and see if that can work, that did can work as part of a relationship using my credential, say, for something like Lenox Foundation in the Glythe network. Because that's, as you point out, interoperability is important. The only other thing you hit early was the fact when we did a survey of the state, we found that only 92% of the residents in the state actually had access to digital devices that could support an identity. So we came up with, or I came up with what I call the worst case use case, which is you have an issued did from sovereign, but you have this did, but you don't have a digital device. Maybe you had one and I stole it, whatever it is, but you have a legitimate ID and you actually have a credential for a prescription for insulin and you need the insulin right away. So you have all of the things, but yet you don't have a device anymore that's functional to prove any of that. So our goal was to say, okay, for those people, we have to come up with what I call the backup alternative. And we use something called like in Europe and over here in the US, we have those ID cards that are in a sense certified. We said, okay, let's add a QR code to the ID card that like a health agency or whoever it is can scan the QR code and say, oh, okay, you are Jim Mason, even though you don't have the digital ID directly accessible, we can verify that on our side of the fence if for service, if you will. Thank you, Jim. I must say I did see your presentation last year at the Hyperledger member summit. I thought that was very interesting. I'm afraid that your question is a bit too technical for me. Okay. So I'm more, I'm more looking at the governance process. Yes. And I can say that for instance, PCGov uses sovereign or non-governmental credentials. So in the, it is possible to use the sovereign network to as a trust anchor for public debts with let's say your own setup of interoperability at a governance level. I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer that. That's fine. Thank you for your help. I appreciate it. And really it sounds stupid, but I'll say the governance is the first thing and your model of how to take a principle and then turn it into what I call an actionable feature, if you will, is a critical thing for everybody because you should always be driving it from the governance side, kind of like you were showing. So thanks for that. Thank you. And I would definitely encourage anyone who wants to engage in this conversation to contact us because we do involve contributors to develop and like I said, revise our policies. So if you can contribute, you're very welcome. Great. Thank you, Lina. We do have some more questions here. If you want to take them also in the chat. Yes. I want to try out that pair. Oh, sorry. And why doesn't this presentation appear on the southern calendar? That's a miss. Sorry about that. Technically speaking, it is not a southern event, but a hyperledger webinar. But so thank you for the comments. Thank you very much. So I want to try out the pair wise did the use of is to in peer to peer did. Can I connect to any specific part or section of sovereign where a programmer could connect in sovereign? Not sure. I understand your question. What would you mean by part or section of sovereign? And all technical questions. For this board for the hyperledger this board. There are specific. Groups there that can help out with any technical questions. Maybe. Do you have a discord invite for that? Absolutely. I dropped it here in the chat and I added it as well at the beginning and with the presentation that we are going to share, we will also have our discord channel. So you are very welcome to join us there. I would say that also at this level, the discussion that's going on in. Around a I is. It's interesting to the digital. Identity community. So I would encourage also other. Communities to reach out and we could explore this human rights based. Risk assessment together. I think it would be. It would be valuable to the discussions going on in the world right now where everybody's trying to understand what's going on and what we can actually enforce in terms of policies. So I would encourage anyone who's interested in that to also contact us. That's great. Okay, we do have some other questions. So Jim is asking in the q amp a box and we also have a few questions in a chat. Um, All right, there's also the chat. When do you decide that an AI entity needs an ID and credentials. Yeah, that's a good question. What would your answer be Jim? You mean on which grounds do you decide that? I would expect. If. If you need to verify. Um, the. A certain credential is the. Is the condition. Not necessarily whether it's an AI entity or. A thing or. Right. My quick thought is this. All of us, according to your principles as humans need an identity and credentials that's in a sense as you say independent of other entities. So if you issue an ID, that's the point of sovereign is that my ID is permanent. When I look at, um, specifically, pardon me. When I, when I look at, um, an AI entity, the question is when does an AI entity in a sense operate similar, not the same, but similar to humans and making decisions, taking actions, having responsibilities. And the trick with AI is I can take what I call a digital object and give it what I call, um, the ability to make decisions in a limited scope perhaps. And therefore say, okay, just like a human. Like with Jim, you'd say, well, I'd like to know who Jim was. I'd like him with his credentials to know. Was he authorized to take this action? You know, whatever it is, you know, deleting a hyper ledger, you know, whatever slide presentation or something small action. The same thing with an AI entity in a sense. In theory, having worked on IOT, they all have identities anyway. The problem is they're, they're not sovereign identities. They're not SSI. Dids, if you will, is the problem. And so they're just IDs that I make up, you know what I mean? They have no durability. They're not in a sense, the scope is limited to a network I created them in. So every, every, I'll call it a digital entity does have an ID, but those IDs are not at all universal the way sovereign is for an entity like Jim. And so the theory would be these digital identities. These digital entities, if you will, would eventually have easily I'll call it a long lifespan that might be beyond Jim's lifespan. And you'd want to know who I was and what my authority was to take certain actions and my responsibilities. So in that sense, I think there is a, an opportunity for identity, a sovereign type ID for digital entities. I would explain that. I would expect that as well. And I think in the sense that agents may also be autonomous. There is a, there's a huge question about accountability. That is being widely discussed as well. So it's a very interesting topic. Well, and the, and your point. Sorry, can I interrupt you because there are a few other questions and we only have eight minutes. So yeah, please go ahead. Thank you, Jim, for the questions. Let's just lean a get to this a couple of ones. So we can get through them. And then in the future, there's contact and you can also reach out to lean it directly. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. In the future there's contact and you can also reach out to lean it directly. Right. Thank you. So someone said, viewing the metrics that's viewing the metrics and dashboards. I assume that's in the scan. Give me an impression of very low number of transactions. Can you please comment on this? Absolutely. It's sometimes a sovereign transactions are compared to public permission list. Let's just write where anyone can write a did on the letter and someone that's different. For each public did that you see there may be thousands of credentials. We don't see those. That's the whole point. We don't. We don't monitor. We can't. We can't see what's. Behind the public did. So. It may be a huge bank. So five. Public. That's maybe. Millions of. People. I hope that answers the question. Thank you. And so window you are also very much welcome to, to join our community. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to explain that. Are there any other questions? I met. Asks where can I find about software and the digital identity in hyper ledger fabric applications. So. And so window you are also very much welcome to, to join our community calls where you can ask these questions and we can perhaps explain at greater length how it works. But thank you for allowing me to explain that. Are there any other questions? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So. We can start with the hyper ledger fabric application. Is it the content of wallet, both inside the hyper ledger fabric SDK or in chain code. I would suggest to go to discord and go to the hyper ledger fabric rule. There are people there who can answer your fabric questions. We are on hyper ledger. So I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. You can you can share that this or you already did. Sorry. Yes. And I will also include it at the end for sure. I think we might have time for one last question. We are about four minutes left to the top of the hour. So if you have anything, just. Hop it in the chat or raise your hand. See one question from Elizabeth Green. Sorry, Elizabeth. I don't know if you can identify it any bio metric. Biomarker or other proof of humanity that AI cannot replicate. Importantly, this enables a path to AI funded known states. Sorry, Elizabeth. On world. No, we. So I understand that that might be a concern. Integrated any biometric biomarker. That would, I think be qualified as. As personal data, and it's not allowed. We have a. Governance framework that prohibits that. In terms of biometrics on ledgers, I think that's a nuanced discussion that. We would like to take and we are engaging with parties who would like to do something with biometrics on sovereign. And what we do is we open, we're open to discussions to learn about it to see how it works. And whether it is suitable for a system such as ours. And if you are interested, Elizabeth, please join sovereign foundation in the discussions. That's great. I think we are at the top of the hour, almost just to sum up and thank Lina and all of you for joining. So first of all, thank you so much. This has been very interesting presentation. And I'm really happy that you were able to do it. And thank you everybody for joining and for your great questions. There was a couple of questions in the chat. So yes, we will share the full presentation so you can always go back and check it. As well as you can download the slides from our webinar library and as well our YouTube channel. So just to conclude, so thank you again, Lina great presentation. I was really happy to have you here. So this is our discord, which you mentioned a couple of times, you can find it in the chat and also in the slides that I will add later. And as Lina mentioned, there's a lot of, you know, our communities here you are welcome to ask your technical questions, there's a lot of real time interaction. And you can find information about hyper ledger projects about special interest groups and regional chapters, and more like that. We have almost 5000 users on the discord. So there was a question on the sovereigns event page, but all of the upcoming webinars you can find on the hyper ledger event page, and you're welcome to join it to look at for that page and also register for the upcoming webinars. So we have a very exciting upcoming webinar with central bank of Norway, and where Lasse will be sharing their experiences from using hyper ledger basal for their CBBC sandbox. Now, again, thank you very much, everybody for joining. Thank you again, Lina for sharing this interesting presentation. And we hope to see you again soon for the upcoming webinar and keep your eye out on our events page and meet up community special interest groups and so on. Thanks again everybody and see you next time.