 chapter 5, first Peter chapter 5 and verse 2, shepherd the flock of God. So the first thing for us to know is that it's the flock of God that the people belong to God. We might be spiritual overseers, we might be, you know, we would be given authority to, to watch over, to teach, instruct, whatever. But the thing is that God looks at them as people who are redeemed by His blood. So, you know, they are His purchased possessions, not our purchased possessions, right? So, a shepherd the flock of God, which is among you, serving as overseers and then says how and how not to, you know, not by compulsion, but willingly, not for dishonest gain, but eagerly. And not as being lords or not being bosses over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. So, we see that, you know, these are how not to do it, right? Saying, not by compulsion, not for dishonest gain, and not as being lords over those entrusted to you. And it's very interesting, you know, we see that first of all, that the people, you know, the church are the flock of God, which means they're not our property, they belong to God. And it says here that verse 3, entrusted to you, you know, it's as if the Lord is saying, okay, I'm entrusting these my flock to you. And for their betterment that you would lead that you would, you know, you would instruct that you would inspire them, motivate them, coach them, and beautify them, and, you know, encourage them, correct them, and bring them to a place of maturity, even as, even as you also go through the same thing. So, so you see a wonderful process here. And you see the reward comes from him, the reward comes from the Lord. It's not people's approval, or it's not anything of that sort, but the reward comes from him, right? So, I was just reminded of that. And even as the Lord places us in, you know, places of, places us in positions of influence, to lead others for his glory, let's keep this in mind, right? So, let's pray, and maybe commit ourselves and align ourselves, you know, to this truth of scripture, to this instruction in scripture. Father, we thank you. And even as we've read right now, Lord, people are your flock. You are the chief shepherd. And, and as the people we see the church, Lord, they are people redeemed by your precious blood and your purchased possessions, and they belong to you. We are yours. And, Lord, we thank you that you counted when we counted a privilege guard that you choose to entrust people, Lord, to us, Lord, to oversee, Lord, to guide and to give oversight, Lord. And Father, we thank you for this awesome privilege, God. And we know that the crown of glory comes from you, and the reward comes from you, God. And just master, we just pray that we will do this. And yes, that we will be careful not to do it out of compulsion, or of dishonest gain, or, or to do it as being lords over them, as being bosses over them, God, but to do it in the right way. Lord, we ask for wisdom. We ask for understanding. We ask for divine guidance, Lord, and how to do this right, and not to do it in a way that compromises allures that compromise that results in Lord, in being detrimental to the flock, and to the leadership guard. So we pray that you will enable us, empower us, and lead us on this path of, Lord, the way you lead, Lord. We thank you. We give you all the praise and glory. In Jesus' matchless name, we pray. Amen. Awesome. Okay. So, yeah, that's something that is for that we should, you know, take a firm grasp of, even as we, even as we look to the Lord, as He places us in positions of leadership, and, and this holds good, you know, even, even in other settings, you know, I'm talking about not a church setting, but, or a ministry setting, but even in other settings as, as leaders. Yes, there is a contract or an agreement or a desired set of expectations, right, from the ones who lead. But, but, you know, when you look at it, there are people who are, you know, created in God's image. And, and, and the fact is that the Lord does not, for His disciples, the Lord does not give the servant leadership or, you know, the leadership, the kind of leadership that He wants from His disciples. He doesn't give that as an option, right? We saw that. He said that if you want to be leaders, you must be this. You must do this. So, so while we are in, you know, like, like Daniels and Joseph, in the, I'm talking about people who are out there, you know, in their professions and business and so on, or maybe government who are out there. And in that setting, in the courts of Nebuchadnezzar, you know, like, so to speak, among magicians, among sorcerers, among those who dabble in the black, you know, in the dark arts, that we would still consider this, that Lord Jesus has given us that example. And so it's a walk of wisdom, right? It's a walk of wisdom. It's a walk. It's a daily walk of, you know, what being led by His Spirit. And, and we will see that the wisdom of hand, the wisdom of the God of Daniel is far superior. And the knowledge and understanding that He gives, you know, Daniel Shedrach, Meshach and Abed Naga is far superior, head and shoulders above the wisdom of the world, right? Which is, which is, you know, or any of those, the wisdom that comes from above is far superior, right? So, and it is, it is to redeem, right? To reconcile, to stop the works of darkness, to advance the work of the kingdom of God, right? So maybe we see that. Okay, so let's continue with where we stopped last class. So we were looking at, you know, as, while considering the whole aspect of leadership and the Christian leader, so it's Christian leader is not just a tag, you know, like, okay, I'm a leader and a Christian, and this is how it is. But the fact is that as a Christ follower, our leadership changes, right? And we looked at how, as leaders, we, we are called to raise up other leaders. And, and that's part of the calling of a leader to raise up other leaders and nurture other leaders. And we saw, you know, the stage or some stages that the people go through, or that we can, we can identify and we can take people through when we nurture others as leaders, right? The six stages, you know, the preparatory stage growth, and then ending at the transition stage. We also saw towards the end that while we create opportunities for creating opportunities, develops leaders, creating opportunities for others, and opening the doors for them to step in to serve, you know, that's one way of creating leaders. And also will really enable the, you know, or like a catalyst, which will speed up the nurturing the leader is the, you know, the, the three, three aspects that is feedback and encouragement and correction, right? So feedback without encouragement can be very, you know, it'll be like finding fault over and over again. But feedback and encouragement without correction is also it will also not serve the purpose, right? Because you're not actually, you're leaving out the truth aspect, which is there needs to be change, there needs to be correction. So that will also develop the leader, because without correction, the weak weakness goes unchecked, unaddressed. But when there is correction, then whatever is a weakness is brought to the light. And, and hopefully, the person will work on it. And, and so therefore, you know, that changes and, and becomes instead of a weakness, it is it becomes a area of strength itself, right? It changed, there's a change. Okay. So let's look at, yeah, we're going to look at decision making within the organization. So we, we looked at organizing people organizing ministry, organizing finances, and so on. And, you know, we're going to look at what will enable us to make good decisions, you know, fruitful decisions within the organization. Some helpful tips for that. But before that, I just thought it'd be good if we can look at, you know, as leaders, some important areas for us to grow in, you know, personally as leaders, as influencers, right, people with influence. So for us. So this is something which John C. Maxwell shares in, I think it's million leaders mandate. I think that's the resource. Let me just check. Yeah, million leaders mandate by John C. Maxwell. So it's, it's quite helpful. And it's easy to remember. It's the four C's like, so let me just share the thoughts with you. Okay. Okay. So for, okay, you have it on the screen. So four C's to, you know, to grow in leadership. So these, these are, you know, things easy to remember. So these are foundational things as well. So while we remember to do this, we also can, you know, can develop this in others. You know, we looked at several, you know, there's an entire checklist, what we can develop in others, right, bring strength in others. So, you know, it could be summed up in four, you know, broad categories. So the first one is competence, okay, or ability, or knowledge. So competent when we say competent competence, it's addressing the area of knowledge, you know, what we have learned. It's also addressing skill, what we can do. And third area of experience, in a sense, what we have, what we have picked up along our, you know, professional journey or ministry journey, like experience. So competence would encompass all these three areas, right, to what we have learned, what we do, and what we have experienced. And so for us to grow in competence, right, it's quite important that we do this, and not stay at the same level, right. So to continue to grow and growth becomes kind of automatic when we are continuing to receive from the Lord. And when we continue to receive and when we are, and we are, you know, intentional, right, about it, when we make that our mindset, right. Well, it will it make us uncomfortable? Yes, it will. Because we are stepping out of what of the familiar and the known. And like all learnings, we have to, you know, go through that phase of, you know, grappling with maybe new things, grappling with new skills. But this is something that we need to, you know, it's a continuous thing in our life, continuous process in our life, which will make life so interesting, which will make life, you know, I mean, something very, very interesting and something to look forward to as well, as we grow in years also, right. And it's a very important mindset to have, you know, like if you read 2nd Peter, and which is 2nd Peter and the last verse, 2nd Peter chapter 3 and verse 18, the last verse in that episode, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ to him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. So Peter says, grow in the grace, you know, in, and whatever grace involves, you know, growing the experience of unmerited favor, growing the, you know, the grace of God with regarding, you know, regard to gifts and what is freely extending, grow with the grace of God, which we're just talking about divine empowerment and, and, and divine virtue and so on. So grow in that grace and says and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, you know, growing this is experiential knowledge of him. Don't stay in the same place. Grow. Okay. There's so much more. So therefore, grow. And so in, in growing, you know, we, we, we come to a place of being even more effective and, and it, you know, growth, spiritual growth is, is essential. You know, we don't, we, there's no staying in the same place actually, you know, it's either we, we slide down or we, we continue to grow. Right. So, so that's the, that's how we are designed. That's how God is designed. So, okay. So this is the instruction that we have, which means that for every believer, you know, for every one who is a believer, who's a child of God, every child of God, this is the exhortation that we grow in the grace, grow in the knowledge of our Lord. Okay. So, so when we talk about competence, we talk about all that knowledge and skill and experience and so on, grow in the, in the gifting. Right. You know, how do you use your gifts in this whole leadership function? How do you use your, you know, your, your relational skills? How do you, how can I grow in that? Right. So, so many aspects, right. Communication. You know, yesterday we were looking at, you know, in office, we're talking about communication and effective communication and how it's so important and what are the filters, you know, what, what blocks effective communication and so, and all that, you know, as leaders. So, you know, how can we grow in that? Right. So, so don't look at growing in competence or growth itself as something that's intimidating as something that is tiresome, you know, take, take small steps, you know, that's all there is, right. If we can be, if we can learn something new, if we can, you know, and it can be some piece of information, it's, it can be a new skill, it can be, you know, something that we reflected and upon and we're saying, okay, this is part of my experience now and, you know, we leverage that. Well, that's good. Right. So, Peter doesn't say, okay, now you need to, you know, make a quantum leap now, you know, you knew only so many books now, you need to know this by heart. No, it is grow in the knowledge, grow in the experiential knowledge of God. Right. And, you know, and, and as our spirit, you know, as our spirit becomes stronger, right, in the sense, as we increase in our capacity to receive from the Lord, you know, the more, the time that we spend with him, we see that we are changed. You know, there is change, there is transformation and in all aspects, there is change. Right. But Moses, it was a physical change, you know, his face was lit up because of the glory of God. So, we see that there cannot be but change when we, when we are in the, you know, drawing from the presence of God and we see that in 2nd Corinthians 3, right, beholding as in a mirror, 2nd Corinthians 3 in the last verse, are being transformed, you know, there is change, deep change, drastic change, transformation into the same image from glory to glory. So, you know, there again, we are being changed and it's a glory to glory, you know, it's something that's growing. So, don't be, let's not be intimidated by change, let's not be, you know, tired because of, because of the need or the expectation to change, right. It can be in a small measure and this will continue to grow and, you know, gain momentum, right. Okay. 2nd Timothy, to us, to what you have heard from me through many witnesses, entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others also, teach others as well, so that able, that ability is again, competence, right. So, be effective and grow in it and do that, right. And there's no need for comparison. When it comes to competence, there's a natural tendency to compare, you know, as human beings we compare and say, okay, I'm not as, you know, I'm not growing as fast or I'm not, you know, I'm not doing as well as this person, but the thing is only comparison that we can compare to learn. I can compare to see, oh, that's great. I can be that way. Now, that's a healthy comparison. But we don't compare to put the brakes on our growth, right. We don't compare to stifle our growth. We don't compare to just come to a standstill, right, regarding our desires and our expectations, you know, for growth. So, so healthy comparison is always good. But we know the moment we cross the line, the Holy Spirit gives us a check. It's not a healthy comparison anymore, we stop it. Okay. Okay, the second area is for us as leaders to grow in confidence, right. So when we are, you know, confidence, when we say confidence, we're not talking about self-reliance, right. But it's a healthy confidence where we realize who we are, right. We realize, we come to that understanding of our identity, our position in Christ, what we have received from Him, and what we can be in Him, and all that we have already become in Him. Now, that's a healthy realization, right. Not realizing that is unhealthy, right. So, now that's a healthy thing. We come to the place of understanding, realizing, okay, I have so much in me because of Christ. I have become this because of Christ, right. He has taken me out and He's lifted me up and He has placed this. He is, and you know, what we've been studying on Sundays, these days in church, about authority, you know, all that we have been given because of Christ, because of, we are one spirit within and all that, right. So, now that's a healthy Christ confidence, right. It's not arrogance, it's not pride, it's not boastfulness, it's confidence, right. So, don't, when you see a confident person, you know, confident in Christ, you know, let's not equate that to arrogance, right, or pride. So, in ourselves also that, you know, underestimating or lowering our self-esteem and saying that, you know, anything that is saying, you know, something contrary to what we have become in Christ, now that is not humility, right. That is not, that is actually false humility, that is not, that's fleshly humility. And which is actually, you know, if you say, you look at it, it's pride because you're saying that, who or what you have become in Christ, you're nullifying that and saying that I'm not that, right, saying which is actually pride. So, confidence. So, confidence is, you know, is being able to take that step of faith, you know, and moving ahead in faith, right. Not afraid of the outcome, you know, that's confidence. So, without confidence, you know, we can do this, nothing much we can accomplish, right, without confidence because we're not able to take that step and see that the water's part, right. Take that step and watch God move on our behalf, right. Take that step and experience the favor of God. So, we're not able to do that, right, because of lack of confidence. So, yeah, so confidence, when we, when you're talking about confidence, it comes from positive experiences, right. Take small steps and when you take those steps and when you have, you know, when the results are positive, then it gives a boost to our confidence. These are some practical things, right. Okay, in terms of ministry, in terms of communicating, sharing, you know, simplicity in sharing, keeping it simple to the people. Okay, confidence is again built through faith in God. Okay, well, there are different ways by which we can, okay, I think Savya video is on. So, the different ways by which we, you know, we, sorry, I think, yeah, different ways by which we, you know, we are built in confidence, right. We see faith in God, we have our faith in God and, you know, when it comes to, you know, when it comes to problems, right, especially there, we might have a perspective about problems, you might have, you know, when we look at problems and we want to maybe run away from problems, right. Problems of, you know, things that are challenges, let's say, work ministry. But we would, if we would have a perspective of, you know, challenges as something that, something to be solved, and as these being an opportunity for us to put our faith to the test, to exercise our spiritual gifts, to, you know, to bring our skill and to exercise our skill, our abilities and our, you know, knowledge and learning, then to solve the problem, then it becomes an opportunity rather than something that, that is, you know, stopping us or hindering us, and it becomes an opportunity rather than an hindrance, right. So, so that's, so confidence helps us to come to that place and saying, okay, let me do this now, right, let me, let me put the gifts to test, or let me put my faith in God to the test, let me apply this principle here, right, so it becomes an opportunity to, to grow rather than looking at it as a hindrance, right, and that also builds confidence and also encouragement, you know, when people encourage us, when people recognize and encourage, meaning, you know, it's not just saying things, for the sake, it's not flattery, it's not being sincere, it's not being insincere, sorry, saying some things just to, you know, just to make you feel, make us feel good, but really, you know, when it's, when it's sincere and when it's an encouragement, mixed with, of course, feedback and, and when it's in truth, then that also builds our confidence, right, so grow in confidence, take those small steps, so grow in competence, grow in confidence, grow in compassion, you know, this is another thing, you know, we can get all technical, we can get, learn all the processes and we can learn all the methods, but if we lose the compassion that, the kind of compassion that the Lord Jesus had for the people, we see over and over again, that He was moved with compassion and He reached out and touched them and He healed them, right, so, you know, with compassion, we, our hearts are aligned to God's heart, right, God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that talks about love, that talks about, you know, the kind of heart that He had for the lost, right, for people, for the lost who, who are rebelling, for the lost who are ignorant, for the lost who are willfully disobedient, right, so for us to have God's perspective is to grow in compassion, right, not to lose out on that, well, we, you know, I think it's, yeah, let me just look at that verse, well, Romans 5 and verse 5, the latter part of it says, because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts, poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit was given for us, so we have, we have been given, and we have an ever-ending supply of agape, God's, God kind of love, because we are connected to the vine, okay, let's never forget that, we, we, we can come to a place of saying, you know, I, temperamentally, I'm, this is how I am, you know, take it or leave it, so we can say, this is how I am, you know, God, this ticks me off, and this is, this is how I am, you know, rather than, you know, making such a statement, why don't we look at the truth of God's word, yeah, temperamentally, this is how I am, this is how, you know, my ancestors, my forefathers have been, but me, having come to a place of receiving from Christ, the spiritual reality is that the love of God has been poured out into my hearts by the Holy Spirit, into my heart by the Holy Spirit was given for me, and I'm connected to the vine, I'm the branch who's connected to the wine, the life that flows in the vine, the zoe, the God kind of life that flows in the vine flows in me, the branch, and I bear fruit, right, the Holy Spirit is at work in me, and I bear fruit, the outcome of the Holy Spirit working in me and leading me, that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy and peace and long suffering and all that, faithfulness and goodness, so, you know, this is, this is the reality of it, right, now it needs to find expression through my soul, through my mind, my will and all that, and that's a choice that I have to make, right, and the more my mind is renewed, the more my soul is renewed to the truth, then the better it is for the spiritual reality to find expression in everyday life, right, otherwise it will not find expression, right, the reality is something, something great and it becomes a frustration because my soul is not renewed, my mind is not renewed to the truth of God, so there is no alignment, you know, there's no acceptance and there's no release of what is, what is in my spirit, right, but the minute my mind is renewed, renovated, my thinking is changed, then it's like opening the floodgates, right, it's like opening the floodgates for the river to flow, the river of God to flow, just think of it, you know, that choice that you make, the decision that you make, the river flows out, you know, that willingness, well, the ability comes through, right, so compassion, without compassion it becomes a burden, ministry becomes a burden, leadership becomes a burden, right, because leadership is, I mean, it involves people, right, ministry becomes, ministry involves people, so, well, if you don't have compassion, if you don't have the heart of God for people, then people become irritants, everywhere you turn because your leadership is going to be, you know, with people, all kinds of people, maybe difficult people, you know, so it's going to be a irritant and day in and day out, it's going to be a path of frustration rather than, you know, something that we can enjoy and walk in, right, and how did God have so much love, how did the Lord have so much love for those who are lost, those who had his enemies, you know, it's because he saw the Father, he and the Father were one and are one, right, so, and he has given this to us, so we can, you know, have the same perspective, right, okay, so, so growing in compassion, you know, that's something that we can ask God, we can, we know, we need to ask God as, as leaders, right, then collaboration, right, the ability to work with others, it's again very important, you know, because it involves people because we are placed and in the body and there are people whom we receive from, the people to whom we give to, so to be able to collaborate, right, to come alongside, to meet, to interact, to network, you know, whatever words we use, but basically to work together, right, with people, right, and we also understand that God places us, there's divine connections that God, you know, places us in, you know, I'm sure that, you know, all of us here, we're not here by chance, right, there's a divine purpose, right, why you said yes to doing this, maybe it's just for one cause, maybe it's just for one subject, maybe it's just for a few months, maybe it's for the entire, you know, the entire course, but you're in the will and purpose of God, you said yes, right, and there's something happening, there's something happening in you, so God brings divine connections in the same manner with other people, with maybe people who are like-minded, maybe people who will sharpen us, maybe people who will, you know, maybe take us further, people whom we can give to, and so, you know, that happens, God does that strategically, right, He did that, you know, but Philip, Philip was, he told Philip, Philip, go here, you know, this is desert, go there, he went, and he was able to, you know, it was a very strategic move, it seemed foolish, but Philip obeyed, and therefore impacted the life of this Ethiopian eunuch, right, so, and when we over and over again, Book of Acts, we see those things happening, Peter, you know, obeying, Peter having that vision, Peter obeying, God setting up things, you know, they've already started their journey, they're coming at that very moment, Peter has this vision, Peter sees this, and then there is this knock on the door, and then he goes, right, God setting up, and God, in his wisdom, it beats our human understanding and thinking how he does that, right, and so, so many times, so many divine, and which cause changes the cause of our lives, you know, personally, you know, looking back, I see that, so many divine connections, so many of those moments, and which changes the cause, you know, of one's destiny, what we could be doing, so, and that involves, you know, people saying yes to God, and the connections that he places in our lives, okay, okay, so, thinking about people that God has placed in our lives as a potential source of encouragement, support, and strength, well, this is important, you know, no one person will be a channel for all the things that are necessary and required for us to grow, and so, so God will, you know, bring a multitude of, you know, a lot of counselors, and bring in his wise counsel, okay, right, and similarly also, you know, for us to give to others as well, okay, so this is, you know, from John C. Maxwell's book, Million Leaders Mandate, and I think it's quite helpful for us to remember and to, you know, work with others, okay, and also I think this you may know, but I just want to go through so that we understand, you know, the five levels of leadership, or the steps, you know, of leadership. Well, John C. Maxwell talks about this, and he talks about, you know, the first level or the step, the first step being one of position, in the sense you are given a formal title, you're placed in a formal leadership position, right, and so this, what happens is that, yes, as leaders, when we are given a formal title and a position, it could be, okay, people saying that, okay, the organization or the ministry appointing you and saying, okay, you are a leader for this particular function, for you are the one who gives oversight for this particular ministry, or you are in charge of this team, okay, so now it's a position, it's the authority that has been given now, the influence part, okay, that's the important aspect of leadership, right, the influence. Now, it may not extend beyond our job description in such a, in such a, in that step of leadership, or in that phase of leadership, right, so we need to move on to another step from the position or the title position of leadership, we need to move on to the next step where people give us the permission or people follow because they want to, they are, they give that permission, so it's more of a relationship, right, so then that's the next step, so here, and one thing to understand is that we never outgrow or do away with the previous step, okay, so yes, there is the position and then you move to the next step which is relationship, and here it work becomes fun, people are willing to be influenced beyond our stated authority, beyond our realm of authority that the title holds, right, and then, so in this step also, we need to move beyond that which is production in the sense what we bring or the kind of success, the kind of fruitfulness that we bring to the organization, ministry, team, right, that's the next step, so we see that, okay, there's a solving of problems, there is a reaching of goals, and all that would influence in this level of leadership, we need to come to that, we cannot stay in that previous step, so we come to that third step, which is production or results, right, and then the fourth step is where we are developing leaders, we looked at that, we are as leaders, we are developing leaders, so people follow because of what we have done for them, there is, we are developing leaders, we are developing the skills of others, we are developing the, maybe people are recognizing the call of God, maybe leading people to recognizing the gifts and then, and we are kind of pushing them to opening up their lives to using their gifts and so on, so it's development, people development, then another stage would be personhood or where there is respect for who you are, what you have become and what you stand for, now that's over a period of time, all this is over a period of time, but as we, as leaders, as we grow, as we work on those areas and as we intentionally grow in our leadership ability, this is something that we can look at as those steps, as a pathway, in our growth, in our growing as leaders, personally as leaders. Okay, so those are some things that I just wanted to share as we look at personally growing as leaders, so we see that it's exciting, it's ongoing, it's ongoing, it's exciting, it's revolutionary, it's very different from how the world looks at leadership and it's producing life because you are allowing the river to flow through you, the river of God to flow through you, so it's bringing life, bringing restoration, bringing change, creating a place for people to experience God, encounter God in ministry and also in a secular leadership setting, as a Christian leader in a secular leadership setting, we are constantly, we are exposing the team or even one-on-one to the wisdom of God, to the manifold wisdom of God, the character of God and that draws them, that opens the door for people to begin to give permission for you to have an influence in their lives, to be led, so it moves beyond the formal title and endears you as a leader whom people would look forward to and they are excited about following, so we'll move on to the next topic which is making decisions, it's a shift from leadership and into making decisions within the organization, so before we go into that, so maybe if anyone has any questions or anything that you would like to share on this topic, we could talk about this before we move on, any doubts, any questions, anything that you would like to add to, so you see, the more and more we see what leadership is and who a leader is, you see that it's very enriching, it's very different, it's not like the word would see a leader, it's not self-serving, but it's serving of others, at the same time, solutions, direction, guidance, which is very, very necessary, so terms like overseer, it's not a bad word, you're overseeing something and overseeing people who are probably more an experience, older, like Timothy was doing in the church at Ephesus and all that is a reality, but you see that, well it's not something negative, it's not something to endure, but it's something to really enjoy, because you're being led by the greatest leader of all and you have the greatest leader of all inside of you, the Holy Spirit who wants to lead, so that changes, there's a shift in the way we look at leadership itself, I hope that shift happens or has happened for you, yeah, so any questions, anything that you might have to share, we all have different experiences with leadership, with leadership and as leaders and not all experiences are positive, not all experiences are good and so we might have a leadership itself might have a very bad connotation in our lives, so yeah, so I don't know what your experience has been, like I've had some terrible bosses and I worked for different organizations, terrible bosses, but through it all it was a learning, through it all it was amazing, so very different from what we have discussed, and that's how the world is, so what happens is we also work the same way, because that is how it was done to us, that is how we were led in the organization, and that is how you're saying, okay that's the expectation, okay let me lead this way, so yeah, so how easy is it, how difficult is it, you know all those things we have I think probably a minute, so if anyone wants to share, yeah Sam go ahead please, thank you pastor, just like the levels of leadership, I think there are different styles also of leadership, like some, but I think it's something to do with your own personality, because each of us have such different personalities which are shaped by so many things, our circumstances are upbringing, etc, so when people go in the leadership place, what I've experienced, I've experienced diverse styles of leadership, even though now when you put the five levels of leadership by John Max, when you put them, and as I was looking at them, I've had two leaders probably you know, and the same maybe permission leaders, like leaders whom you want to follow, but then both of them leading in different styles, so that's something that I wanted to so different styles in the sense, can you just elaborate on that Sam? Like, so someone, a leader who, so a leader probably someone who is, like I have two people in my mind and both of them are so diverse, especially in terms of a person, like one leader who is, like who focuses mostly on the big picture, I mean, both of these leaders, I think what makes them permission leaders is, for me, why I like to work with them is because they believe a lot in capacity building, meaning they seem to be in a hurry to get me up, and they themselves move out, so the trainings, everyone who works on them, they're constantly like, okay, I'm going to do it the first time, but you know, as soon as I've done the first and the expectation second time, you do it, and that's how they've set up a certain culture of bringing people constantly, and both of them, but one person is, he is so focused on the bigger picture, he's like, I'm bringing you up, but the big picture is this, like, you know, what you need to keep in mind is this, and how you'd get there, like the nitty gritties, I'll just leave it to you, like, I don't, you know, I don't, and the other person is, again, same time building it up, but then this other person is the big picture you decide, I mean, eventually the goal is there, but you can somehow, as long as you're going in the right direction, you know, you're headed to that direction, that's fine, but this is how, like, the small, small steps, like, you know, this other person who lives in, for lack of a different person, like the devil in the details, she is most like, you know, this is how you do this, so that's just one, so I was thinking of, you know, while they might, like, depending on, so this leadership style, so I don't, so that was the one thing. Yeah, yeah, and also I think leaders also use different methods for different processes and different outcomes, you know, so that is also there, you know, for certain, I mean, certain functions or certain decisions, maybe a different method, yeah. Say, I see your hand that's one more thing. Yeah, sure, go ahead. So the other thing that I've been thinking about is, which, you know, in the previous section where you were sharing the four scenes, and while I completely agree with those four, but something that I find lacking and constantly, I think probably this skill was not required so much 20, 30 years back, but I think it's required more now is for leaders to really have the capacity to listen or even create that space to listen to others and then adjust or adapt or even modify accordingly, because I think 20, 30 years back, it made sense where leaders were looked as, you know, the source of knowledge, the source of direction. There were lesser people who were more educated, more experienced, and you needed some answers. We didn't have Google, we didn't have books, so, you know, you could rely on one person to give you direction and show and this is how it's done. But now with, you know, with information and our fingertips, it's, I think the style of where relying on one person to know everything. And I think that's something that's been very revolutionary for me also is when people take up leadership roles, normally the assumption is like, I have to be the person who knows it all. I have to be the person who's got it figured out. And so that's an immense burden for the leader, as well as, you know, if he carries on with that trend, which has been set before us, which is, you know, the leader is someone who has all the solutions. But more and more, I don't think that's the case anymore. And new skill that I think is more valuable is where the leader listens. And sometimes the leader just says like, you guys seem to know what you're doing. Let me get out of the way. I'll just make sure you guys get coffee. We need to do what you what you have to do and support. I think that's right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think what you're saying is right in the sense that a leader is not I think it's not a good expectation to say the leader will have all the answers, but the leader has the wisdom to, you know, look in the right place or consult with the right people to, you know, to bring the answers to the best possible solution, you know, in a consultative manner. But the decision making, you know, of course, because accountability rests with him or her. That goes, you know, with the job, right? Say, can we come back after the break and then we'll hear you out? Yeah, if you don't mind. Okay. Yes, it's 1055. So we'll just take 10 minutes. We'll come back at 11.05. And then we'll have say, share. Okay. Okay. Thank you. We'll take a break now.