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Doing good Giants. Very good. Thanks for having us. Thanks for coming on. You're a representative of the Tiger King. Everybody knows who he is. The smash it show Tiger King. Joe Exotic, Mad Bastard for honest. Mad show. Everybody in the UK. I was engrossed in it. I loved it. I thought it was just fucking mad. Mad as a box of frogs. Everybody was on it. Like how Billy's just kind of arguing and fighting and trying to kill each other and killing lions and it was a mad show. Did Joe know how big that show was going to be? No I don't think. I mean Joe had visions and dreams right of creating this because what most people don't realize is Tiger King really began in 2013. So it was something that they that you know Joe dreamed up and created and then by the time Netflix jumped in I don't think anybody had a clue. You know I think even the producers involved. I know one of the main producers JT says all the time he knew it was movement but he had no clue he was in New York City standing in Times Square and all of the sudden all the all the electronic billboards light up with Joe's face and Tiger King everywhere and he went that's the moment I knew we were in for something big. Yeah so what's your connection with Joe Michael? So for the viewers to understand. Yeah so I'm in front of currently I mean my current position because Joe is running for president here in the United States so I serve as a presidential press secretary so moments like this getting to speak for Joe specifically because Joe can't right now but I've been friends with Joe for a long time I'm in the exotic space so I work with exotic animals specifically monkeys and so a lot of folks know me as kind of the monkey man or whatever we've got monkeys all over the place and the exotic world is really small so you know especially in the States so you get to know everybody although I've got friends over there in the UK and South Africa and places like that in the exotic world as well but Joe and I crossed paths became buddies and friends and you know all those characters and it's I agree actually I've interacted or done some work with all of them in some form or another including Terrell Baskin so all of us kind of crossed paths at one point or the other and that's how Joe and I got to know each other before we get into Joe's case because I know he's in solitary confinement just now but well I always go back to the start of my guess Michael get a bit understanding about you where you grew up how it all began absolutely so I grew up here in Nashville Tennessee so I'm southern for sure Southern Southern US grew up here in the States and worked with animals my whole life I kind of thought that's what I would do for a living actually that's what brought it I know right before we started recording where I was telling you guys during during my high school days and and into college I studied at Dundee University with animal health and sciences over there in Scotland so I thought I was gonna be a veterinarian this is what you know my dream in life was to just work with animals and then I realized like I don't want to be a doctor I just love animals I just want to work with the animals so I kind of walked away from veterinary school and then I spent a lot of a lot of my life in business as an entrepreneur and as a leader of a nonprofit I actually pastored one of the largest churches here in the United States for a while and loved it but just being in public life and then working with the animals and so here I am you know working with Joe and and serving Joe and using my voice to talk about what he's going through his campaign all that sort of stuff and then being an advocate for the animals that's a big big deal for me being an advocate for the rights here in the United States for people to do life with these animals to share life with these animals and so it's a it's multifaceted to say the least so when you say you's what with letting dangerous species and exotic animals what sort of exotic animals can you work with in America that's legal because I know in Tiger King there was there was kind of you can't work with lions but you can you can have your own zoo but you can't so what was what as the ends and outs with exotic animals in the United States yeah so a lot has changed and continues to change currently so from the time the Tiger King came out one of the and people saw this in the Tiger King series Carol Baskin was working very closely with US government to change the laws so that no one could privately own a lot of these exotic specifically the big cats tigers lions jaguars cougars things like that so no longer in the United States is it legal unless you are a sanctuary or a zoo that's specifically licensed for that can you have those animals any longer additionally you know chimpanzees or any tanks like big apes are no longer legal certain birds and right now Carol's actually on a mission trying to pass another law to make it illegal for anyone in the United States to have a monkey so she's trying to basically eradicate the rights for every American across the United States then so you know she's been she's been working on this you know we got email archives going back to 2016 where Carol said when she was done getting rid of the tigers she'd get rid of the monkeys and then she just kind of keep going and you know she's walked away from being in the sanctuary world she doesn't work with animals anymore all she does is go back and forth to Washington DC and lobby to change the laws and take away the rights of Americans so cattle and Joe the two stars of the show that were they closed were not close but did they know each other before the tiger king yeah they Carol spent almost 10 10 11 years trying to shut Joe down and which is very interesting because Carol was in the same business like Carol did the same as my fact Carol did what she accused Joe of doing Carol was a breeder of tigers and lions and exotic cats and made millions of dollars off of raising and selling these animals and then whatever reason she decided to stop it for everybody else and so when Joe was exhibiting he didn't breed himself when Joe was exhibiting those animals Carol basically worked overtime for nearly a decade to shut him down every time he turned around so what was Joe's business and the Joe have the zoo with exotic animals yes so Joe Joe ran the GW exotic zoo in Oklahoma that he you know started out of a passion project but he also did exhibits around the country to allow people to get up close and personal with you know baby tigers alliance things like that doing shows across the country he's an entertainer and he wanted people to have the experience of being able to see the animals up close and personal not just behind glass at a zoo or some some place like that but to have a respect and understanding of the animals and because Joe was was allowing people access to get close the animals the animal rights activists across well not just in the United States but across the globe but also Carol and others felt like that was inappropriate and made it their mission to shut Joe down because Joe he was doing YouTube videos beforehand he was trying to get fame and popularity is that correct he was yes so he had a group there was a basically they had the Tiger King sold to a different network at one point they had already filmed everything put it all together and if you'll remember in the Tiger King staff had their arm ripped off by one of the Tigers yeah the women to win that yeah so when that happened then the original network that was involved in the production of the show decided they were no longer willing to air air the show which I'm sure there's some executive in the entertainment industry now sitting back and thinking man what a mistake we made it would have been a giant success but because someone was injured by an exotic animal they chose not to actually release the show and so it sat for a few more years until Netflix picked it up so see because of the Tiger King would Joe be in prison if Tiger King wasn't available for anybody to see was it I don't I don't think the downfall of Joe I was always going to go to prison no I think Tiger King I think Tiger King is why no well actually let me back up Joe was in jail before the Tiger King came out I think that the Tiger King gave leverage for the federal government here in the United States to form a better case because they were able to use the information from filming and the narrative created by the entertainment executives to further a conviction I don't believe Joe would still be in prison today if it weren't for the show so I do believe the show caused a lot of grief and trouble for Joe I mean while it's given a lot of other people fame a lot of folks don't realize they they I think people believe that Joe has made a lot of money he's gotten famous you know he's he's you know he's got all this stuff from being the Tiger King but you know what people have to understand here in the United States when you're a federal inmate you're no longer allowed to make an income so Joe being in prison before the show came out allowed or disallowed him did not allow him the opportunity to profit from the show so Joe being one of the biggest celebrities in the world over the last few years especially during the pandemic you know Joe is this massive celebrity and yet he has no benefit from that because he was in federal prison in fact Joe has never seen an episode of the series Tiger King Joe's never even been able to watch it for himself so Carol Baskin Michael they spoke about her husband going missing but then I've read that he was actually found and the people are saying that she killed him but then the article is just I think it was this year actually that it was actually found in Mexico Brazil how true is this and is it all speculation like what is the actual story do you know but you know I I don't know for fact and I don't think anybody but Carol and maybe a handful of very close you know friends of Carol know the real facts but I would I would venture to say that Dawn still being alive today is not factual I do believe in fact that he was gotten rid of I think that Carol made sure he was dead and gone in order to benefit financially because she was done using him and she wanted access to his money the people closest his own children his personal assistant for all those years I mean they kind of vouch for too because I feel like those individuals if they knew he was alive I mean they would they would come forward with the truth because they're actually good people they're not just trying to take Carol out just just because they don't like Carol they would just let the truth be known but I believe that Carol had a hand in making sure that Dawn disappeared permanently you know and here recently she's gotten rid of her her zoo she's donated the animal she's gotten rid of her property maybe there's a chance somebody can find something on that property but I don't know I don't think we'll ever know the truth unless Carol has a moment of deciding to be honest for a change when did the Tiger King get made then so the Tiger King was made that was released but Joe was already in prison yes yeah so the tiger made it made out as if Joe was still out and then he just get charged when the Tiger King was released and after it get released so he was already in prison he was in prison before any of us ever even knew what the Tiger King was so Joe Joe went into prison about a year prior to the release of the series and so the series that the footage that you see in the series they began capturing that footage 10 years ago in 2013 and so that was the footage used for the previous series Tiger King the producers of Tiger King from Netflix came in filmed additional continued you know the story before and after with Joe they added to it but a good majority almost all of the footage that you watch in the pilot was shot by the original producer JT Barnett who actually created the series for a different network and so that you got almost a decade of footage and information and story in the midst of all of this and then you've got you know you've got this supposed producer the guy in this series who came along saying that he you know he shot all this he did all that they hired him right towards the end he was fired right towards the end he barely had anything to do with it but they used him as the main character because again what we see on television or what we see in movies you know often is recreated just for the entertainment value so a good majority of what you see in the in the series Tiger King it's not the actual facts of what's really going on what sort of animals did Joe have on the zoo yeah so Joe had tigers chimpanzees he had all kinds of monkeys I mean kangaroos wallabies I mean you name it it was a real zoo we truly with all kinds of animals I mean the primary thing that Joe obviously had there were the big cats so the tigers ligers lions you know that was that was Joe's passion he has a gift for it it's it's really unlike any I've ever seen I've never seen a person be able to work with those animals the way that Joe naturally was able to do that and so he put a lot of effort and energy and had one of the one of the most specialized and high-end zoo properties in the country that was privately owned that was not a you know a public zoo or government funded sanctuary because it just looked crazy though when you mentioned that girl who lost her arm and people were getting attacked it looked it's not a zoo I would go to let's put it that way Michael just looked fucking crazy and yeah stayed in Dundee and Dundee's fucking crazy but that just takes things to a whole new level so how safe was it actually for people to go around in the tours I think we've got one here and Scotland blood drumming I think it's called where you drive around with the car but the lines I think are sedated they don't really move but Joe's lines seem to be they weren't sedated really so how safe was it so it was it was safe because you have you have regulations to that so again what you saw in the series is definitely not this you know not the reality we have regulations even here you know it just 20 feet behind me out and out in the back of my house I have monkeys right and out there I have to have six foot tall perimeter fences that are so many feet away from enclosures so that a person can't put their arm through and touch or any of that stuff so the general visitor to Joe zoo did not have any type of physical direct contact with the larger animals and Joe did allow them to to pet and take pictures with baby animals but with the big animals no a few you know other than this staff who worked at the zoo and this is a reality like those of us who work with exotic animals I just took in a set of new monkeys here that are older adults and you know I've been bit I've needed stitches you know you get you get injured when you work without wild animals and so you know even staff who lost their arm you know for staff they want right back to work you know they just understand this is part part for the course and what you don't see in that entire deal is that staff was playing with the animal during feeding time with the stuffed animal because these tigers when they're raised by humans they're like house cats they're really incredible creatures they're really kind of chill but they're still a predator they still you're talking about an animal whose claws are two three four inches long big teeth you know and when they want to play rough they're much bigger much stronger much more capable and the entire process of staff losing their arm was about a literally a three to five second moment of play time with that tiger where they just snatched the arm right up what's the most endangered species you can what with may cool you know I mean depending on if you're licensed for it you can work with you can still work with tigers you can still work with chimpanzees animals like that here in the United States to me for me I'm licensed in different ways I mean the only thing that inhibits me personally from working with any of these really endangered exotic species is a facility your facility has to be at a certain standard in order to have those animals and again they did this at cost that this is the other thing that a lot of people don't realize feeding like feeding a full grown tiger for a year costs anywhere from five to ten thousand dollars just for the food so it's a very expensive thing to take care of these animals chimpanzees are much the same they could they can cost up to a hundred thousand dollars in a year to care for so you know I've got spider monkeys here my spider monkeys the average spider monkey will cost me ten thousand dollars just to feed every year so it's a very expensive venture for most people it's it's really limited by your education that you have your licensing that you have and then the facility so as long as your facility meets complete standards we're getting ready to upgrade here as a facility so that a certain species of monkey that are going to be outlawed in the state where I live have a place to go so we can provide sanctuary for them long term but it's it's a process you know I have to build nine foot perimeter fences around the entire property I have to build you know certain types of enclosures that meet all these standards by the Zoological Association of America and so there are there are a lot of parameters around it but the reality is is if you've got the funding and you have the resources to put the facility together and the right staff you're really still able to work with these animals but the private individual in America is very limited with almost no options any longer yeah I'm fascinated with so many animals on this planet I'm going off topic here but I'm just intrigued with animals and why they're here and when you look at I've seen videos you see videos of people working with lions when they're cubs and the lions love them and they run to them to cuddle them do you see when people think they're dangerous when you actually work with them as pups and cubs and just newborns that they actually love their owner just the way a dog does uh do you see the love and compassion or do they go into that mode where I'm still a fucking lion but don't piss me off well you know the the answer to your question is actually yes to both both of those right like these when these animals are raised by a human being there's a trust built so there's a there's a level of bonding and trust that never goes away so you can still work with the animal however they're still wild animals and this is what I you know I try to tell folks even I mean I've got a 12 pound monkey here that's at maturity that I did not raise but like I can go sit with him in his enclosure he'll cuddle with me he'll love on me but if if he has a moment where he's frustrated he's he's a testosterone raging primate and he gets upset and he will absolutely tear me up very quickly it's a natural response and I you know I tell folks working with monkeys in particular but this is true with uh say a tiger tigers are natural predators right so there's a natural instinct and you don't breed out instincts and you certainly don't train out instinct it's literally hardwired into the dna so you know short of understanding the animal you know non-verbal communication and cues that you get when you work with these animals um and then just a deep respect for the animal the truth is you're gonna have moments nobody that works with these animals up close and personal goes without injury it really does happen and that's the risk you take working with animals and you know there's folks out there who go that's why take the risk or you know it shouldn't be available to take the risk because it is a great risk but the truth is man and animal have interacted for thousands of years I mean we can go back to you know the the hieroglyphs in the pyramids and see you know ancient Egypt I mean this is just it's just a reality of our what what I say in a traditional point of view is we're at the top of the food chain really so our ability to have dominion over the animal kingdom and to be able to enjoy it it's a beautiful thing and I think that you know we we often forget because we try to put everything in a category of say a pet so we think dogs and cats but you know again thousands of years ago a dog or a cat was a wild animal so at some point and I don't think that we need to go domesticate all of these exotic animals I don't think we need to do all those things but the reality is these animals come into captivity they come in through import you know a lot of the monkeys that are part of the United States come in because of medical testing though where our own government funds the process of going and capturing all these monkeys in Africa or South America you know different places and they they bring them over on a boat and they come through and then workers take one home or get babies or they sell them and they end up in the pet trade here they're gonna it's gonna continue to happen you don't stop it but the reality is that for all of us we really we've got to be educated you know I mean we see it often with dogs and cats but we've gotten so common place because they're everywhere you know we don't think about it but how often do people not know how to care for their animal how often does a dog injure its owner you know by its owner or a child in the home or those sorts of things but because there's so many of them because it's become so common we don't have the same mindset so then when we see some big exotic animal that injures a caregiver or acts like a wild animal we act really surprised and yet that's true of every animal on this planet see when you're working with monkeys or an expert monkeys how do you think the connection is between monkey and human do you think we've evolved from monkeys because I am skeptical of everything I like to ask the questions I've seen I don't know if it's chimpanzees or silverbacks you see their fingerprints and their hands that say they're very they're very human like but do you feel there is a connection that we have evolved from monkeys or do you feel as if it's something else you know I don't I would not be one to say that we are involved from a non-human primate I don't I don't ascribe to that belief but I will tell you working with them and chimpanzees are a great example I've worked with a lot of chimpanzees over the years chimpanzees are eerily close to humans and it really isn't all inspired bang I remember really kind of the first time I worked with an older chimpanzee she was 38 years old and I walked when I was like if that if that animal could talk to me that's as human as you could possibly get right but at the same time there's enough of an animal there to go we didn't involve there's too much difference in my opinion to say that we draw directly and you know evolved from it but I think that there's a lot of you know cross-understanding I mean I have a creation view of the world and the reasons we exist I mean I have a deep faith so you know because of my belief system because the way I was raised it's hard for me to ascribe to an idea that we evolved from them with the similarities and the common characteristics between us and I mean even the spider monkeys and the things that I work with on the daily basis there there are very much times that it's it's really interesting you know challenges my thought process a lot to think about how human like or the term would be sentient but how sentient these beings are and how much connection there is and how much emotional connection there is that you don't have with any other animal that I've ever worked with you know what's the best monkey to what with oh gosh am I I mean it's it's biased though I mean my personal opinion either spider monkeys or howler monkeys I just think their disposition and their their character and and their uh demeanor is just the best of the best how loving are they and affectionate did they show love or the quick call towards a human oh James they're uh it's unbelievable I mean my my spider monkeys that I have personally I mean they when they come in like they spend their days and they're out through enclosure they have big natural environments but they come in to sleep in a in an enclosure that's built on to the and onto my home well like my evenings they just want to sit and cuddle they they they vocalize things they you know they they've accepted me into their trooper I've brought them into my trooper however that term looks but they're very much a part of our family they're very much part of our home um and it's very evident I mean it's it's extremely evident when they're not feeling good they want to be held when they are uh you know upset about something they want to be protected it's I being a father of seven children like there's there's not a whole lot of difference to me and these these monkeys but what their needs are as what my kids were when they were three four five years old so I feel like their their intelligence level and their needs their emotional needs and psychological needs are right on par with the small child so the the connection the affection all of those things it's it's very very unique and it's deep it's very deep they're saying there's a lot of animals will be extinct by the end of 2030 how true is that and is that the greed of other humans just being vicious and motherless kind of torturing animals yeah I think that falls I mean Maya can you know that I are animals in danger of being extinct yes and and and at all times the biggest culprit of that is humans but not in the way we think because the narrative for you know climate change and you know destruction of environments and all of these sorts of things they do that mad right like I don't know about climate change I'm not a big believer in climate change I think it's a bunch of you know bullshit that people have spun out there but the reality is like the way I mean Carol Baskin's a great example for the United States there are more captive tigers in the United States than there are in the wild naturally left on this planet but what people don't understand is the natural environment for a tiger for instance there's only about 5,000 acres left on this planet that are considered natural environments for those animals because human population is expanded it's taken over those places right and were it not for captivity and captive breeding programs those tigers would be critically endangered if not extinct at this point and what Carol's done is passed this law saying that it's not right for humans and animals to interact and that tigers should not have any type of human caregiving or human interaction or captivity and it's also indeed the breeding program so the zoos and sanctuaries and whatnot are not allowed they have to sterilize their animals they can't breed them and what you're going to see I think in in 20 or 30 years is that the the tigers go back to being critically endangered if not eventually becoming extinct because we got woke on some level and work to protect the animal to basically treat the animal like that the animal rights people here in America specifically but it I mean PETA is everywhere they kind of talk about animals and captivity like it's chattel slavery so they go back to our roots is American history of owning slaves and all this kind of stuff they talk about it that same way and it's it's a ridiculous over characterization and overhumanization of these animals but then they dammed these animals to potentially going back to being critically endangered and or extinct because they no longer allow a human population to to breed and propagate these animals so make sure they're around I you know I I'm concerned that might there's certain animals and tigers being one of them that my grandkids will never be able to experience because we made laws to protect the animals saying they're going to go extinct when in reality we've been protecting these animals once from that kind of a extinction or danger just by taking care of it just fascinates me with so many different animals you you look at some of these safaris where you've got giraffes and rhinos and hippos and it's just so fascinating who created the animals and how beautiful they are when you see them all different and listen survival mode as well where people need to survive and it's a free for all but it's just so fascinating the animals for me it's animals overhumans humans are fucking they're fucked up mate for honest and I agree I agree with you man so it's just when you see I love animals I'm a dog person I just love dogs and but any animal any animal that's friendly enough if I see an animal that's friendly it's made my day it's just yeah it's the joy they bring they bring some different energy than a human and it's unbelievable what they can actually do to make someone happy and it's a true saying it's an interesting thing you know one project that I'm personally working on with a great group of people we have a foundation called the Idaho Foundation so here in the United States they have outside of a dog or a cat they have made it illegal to use animals for therapy but you know every day like I get to interact with these animals right and I have good days of bad days you know recently I've had a group of crazy fucked up humans is the best way to put it that have you know they made threats against my family they've made threats against my work my life because they just don't like the work that I do and you know when you have a day that's stressful you run into things one of the things that's a really nice beautiful reset that really helps my mental health but also just helps my emotional stability a lot of days is the fact that I get to go sit with these animals and just experience them and I'm away from human craziness and I'm away from the world I'm just in the midst of for all intent purpose I'm in the midst of nature getting a pure place because these animals just like a dog or a cat I mean they all come to us with just a pure existence right they don't have an agenda for us other than being fed you know they don't really have an agenda with humans so you either have a connection or you don't you're you know if you're a genuine person going into this the beautiful connection that we share with animals is unbelievable and so you know one of the projects that we're hoping to bring to life here in the here in the U.S. and I'd love to see it across the globe is to build these retreat centers with sanctuaries that coexist together where folks who are suffering from trauma or PTSD depression anxiety you know all the things that we as general humans in a busy world with all the all the craziness that we have to deal with you know we we suffer at times from those those mental and emotional struggles and to be able to come in and and serve the animals like it's not just to come in and get to take pictures and love on an animal I think like you know that that I'm not crazy about but like to get to come in and work with these animals to protect them to to get some purpose around you doing something good for the plant or the animals for yourself but then get to experience the connection with the animals I believe it could be a crucial key in the future of communities here in the U.S. and across the globe to really help with mental health to get away from the junk pharmaceuticals all the drugs people get shoved down their throats or drinking themselves to death to escape those mental struggles and anxieties but to really reconnect with the a natural resource that's right at hand for us you know to restore and that was a big piece like for Joe exotic a big part of his opening up those experiences for people with the GW exotic zoo and the exhibitions that he did all the time was really to bring a moment of joy a piece of hope you know a little bit of restoration to just stabilize somebody's ups and downs in life and put a smile on somebody's face there's there's absolutely beauty in it and because we're for all intent where I hate the term I just don't know a better term for James but because we become so woke as as a modern society across whether it's America or anywhere else we're still woke and protecting all these things and and whatever those things are that we're destroying the natural beauty that's right in front of us and we're limiting the opportunity because I think that you know whether you believe that there's there's a creator and a god who put all this stuff together or a big bang theory and we're all going through an evolution there's still these natural things that are existing in our world that provide remedy for the struggles that we go through and I think you know when we just accept that and go hey I get it like I am I'm a major understanding proponent of hey a wild animal should be wild I don't disagree that they shouldn't all be in captivity the problem is once they're in captivity you can't just take them back out and go run free you know they don't they don't live they don't exist somebody's got to care for them and because we're caring for them we have a benefit so we serve them we get benefited it's a mutually beneficial relationship that should exist and there's a beauty in it for us you know just like you you love animals and like you said the reality is is we don't do that for each other's human beings anymore something about the culture across the globe has broken down where we don't lean into one another as human beings and go I just be present be a friend to you how do I just be present and sometimes either that's all you need to do is just be present but like we become so selfish and so self-consumed with our own needs that we're not serving other people and that's the beauty of this relationship that we have with these animals is that's just not the way they are you know they're they're it's just an open mutually beneficial existence and there is a absolute incredible resource at hand that we continue to shut down yeah what happened to America though Michael same as the UK the UK is an absolute mess right now it's fucked up the laws are fucked there's a movement and it's just it's not a good one America I know obesity is on the rise and mental health and pharmaceutical industries so many people addicted to pharmaceutical drugs there why did where did it get so messy do you think for the human mind and the body that would just let myself go so much you know I I try to look at everything and I've said this in in in for instance with Joe's entire story of being in prison too it's the same answer that really applies to all of it is greed greed and power and you know the the reality is is that we've created a society where people are still entitled to have so much and entitled to not have to work at something and entitled not to have to to be a part of society like there's this mental I think it's a mental health issue that says I get to be me and fuck you if you don't like it and if you don't like it you're you're a Nazi you're a racist you're a you know whatever term you want to put on you know there's all these things that people say but like obesity is a great example like obesity is a death sentence man like you know you think about diabetes cancer respiratory heart issues all of these nasty things that come out of being obese and and then people turn around and they glamorize it you know you got celebrities who are overweight and then they're being put on the cover of magazines and called the standard of beauty it's like I'm not calling you ugly I'm not trying to tell you you're a horrible human being but when I glamorize this then a young generation looks and goes well if I'm a fat ass who cares but what happens is you're damning these kids you're damning a generation of people to die a miserable death to live a miserable existence to be a drain on society but then we protect it and and it's just it's it's a mental health issue that's driven by greed because the pharmaceutical companies then create more drugs and they get you dependent on the drugs and you know the mental health stuff I mean social media sure hasn't helped I don't blame social media I don't I just think it's one proponent of things where people get into this mental health cycle of I don't look like that person I don't fit in like that person or I don't have the fame that person has so then they feel depressed because we've taught people it's not okay to just be you to just be normal to just be average it's not it's not about mediocrity versus superiority it's about just being a human being you know in America one thing that drives me nuts is that you've got this entire society here who's no longer happy just to own a basic home raise their kids drive to be able to drive a car and have a job and pay their bills like there's this this misconception that you've got to be wealthy and you've got to be known and you've got to have all these things and so then people are discontent and it leads to mental health and struggles and anxiety and depression and fear and then the pharmaceutical companies go great we can make a ton of money we'll pump it in we'll make you dependent this drug makes you sick this drug makes you gain weight this struggle makes you lose the weight but when you lose the weight you're gonna have more mental issues so you're gonna take and you know it's just it's this chain reaction of greed an hour that just continues to happen and I think it all stems from a mental health issue that we haven't looked at people and said you know what you're okay just the way you are like it's it's okay yeah it's crazy at all because people are so lost like you say with social media social media is a great tool for business but even then you can get lost in it by craving something it's electrical it's just a number it's like a time you're watching the shows numbers going up and down and people feel as if they're inadequate fat people in front of magazines saying big and proud but it's not that you're talking about heart disease diabetes cancers people are brainwashed now we've got fucking men I seem like 12 men in the front of a magazine with blood on their pants saying men can have periods and I'm just thinking this place is going nuts and if you speak out you're wrong and you're bad you're a homophob you're fucking transphobe you hate fat people you just hate the world I'm just speaking facts I'm speaking science I'm speaking just natural facts where I wait a minute men can't have periods men can't have babies transgender I don't care if you're trans always speak about it right but I genuinely don't care if you're trans gay by I don't give a fuck just stay away from kids don't preach it to right don't take it into schools don't bring different flags into schools keep your politics away from sports just let people go on with their life there's so many people who are straight and trans and bi who just live their life and raise a family but yeah there's just so much fuckery now when the news and the tv's and it's making people scared and you're questioning it and you question yourself and you think is this right is this wrong but when you strip it all back the science is there men can't have babies men can't have a period if you're overweight then there's more chance to get a heart attack liver failure heart disease cancers diabetes just common knowledge but don't it's mild because you know one of the things that I run into here in the and I would have the same issue in the UK so wouldn't be any different in the UK as in the US but I I am gay I have a husband but I am completely anti-transing kids I don't want you educating my young children about gay bi trans any of that like that's my first of all that's my job I'm a parent I'm supposed to take the responsibility to educate my kids on anything when it comes to identity sexuality politics all that that's my job that's how it's supposed to be like that's what the parents don't take responsibility for anything anymore which is part of the problem but you know when I speak out and say quit quit cutting a 12 year old's kids breast off or penis off and tell them that it's okay to just decide today I'm going to be a girl tomorrow I'm going to be a boy like if we you know I think back to when I was a kid there's all those things you wanted to be when you were a kid you know want to be a superhero you wanted to be a little you know I pretended I was a dog I remember when I was a kid like you know the mental health that you've got to go through to say we justified one version of this and not another and you know the misconception and and somebody that I deeply respect I've been talking a little bit with her her folks about doing some content to get because I love JK Ralph like JK has done a great job of speaking against it because like like what you just said JK has no issue with trans people I have great friends who are trans people but they are adults who made understandable decisions at a time in life where they're able to to to grasp like if I do this it's a permanent decision you know permanently altering my existence and my health and my body and that's your choice I'm cool with that whatever you want to do do your thing you know and I'm also the type of person that you know I come from a conservative religious traditional you know family and culture like there's a lot of people who have a problem with me because I have a husband that's okay you're entitled to your belief it's fine I'm not getting it I don't need to change your mind it's okay to disagree with me but where we where we've gone too far like you said is these idea ideologies that we're justifying you know obesity like it's beautiful instead of calling it what it is it's dangerous so we're justifying mutilating children for the sake of a moment of emotion to feel like I don't sit in you know because a girl's a tomboy and likes to wear blue and play ball instead of play with Barbies and wear dresses and all the sudden it's like oh well we need to make a fake penis and cut your breasts off like what who what what jacked up mental health reality is this and when when we as and it gets said here in America a lot there's a trans genocide gone you know we're trying to kill off all the trans like we're not you know who's killing off all the trans people is all the woke liberals who are transing all the kids because they're sterilizing all of them and in a generation from now they won't exist it's not the conservative mindset he says hey this isn't okay that's a problem that's killing off the trans trans population America it's the trans supporting people who think it's okay to mutilate a kid they're the ones killing everybody off they're the ones committing the genocide and so we just flipped all this and I feel like man at its end times when it comes to politics and the news and everything that we see and read and hear all over the place whatever you whatever you read in the newspaper whatever you see on mainstream television anywhere in media just realize the opposite is the truth because they're giving us this spun narrative that's upside down and they lie into us every time we turn around and that's how they're continuing to manipulate the system that's why political leadership is is is screwing the whole world up because they get up and they literally tell you what what they're not doing and you should just be awoken enough to go they're probably doing exactly the opposite of what they're saying and they're stealing my rights and they're taking my money and they're they're destroying things you know and it's just it's unbelievable and what's really sad to me is that we have we've stopped people and this is true everywhere I've traveled to 91 countries I've lived abroad I don't just have this American point of view you know everywhere I've been and I've seen it in other countries before I saw it here so it's really alarming to me to see it but we've we've made it impossible or we've told people it's impossible or it's illogical to ask questions and think for yourself like they you're supposed to just take the narrative and believe it and we've stopped like we've told people like it's a crime and they're trying to do that with laws here in the United States I mean they're passing laws in certain states here where if you misgender somebody you could face jail time like how ridiculous is that like if you got a penis you're a you're a male you want to dress like a woman fine but like you got a penis you're a male like don't put me in jail for that just because I'm stating the obvious right but this is the kind of junk that we're doing and what we're what we're doing is this generation we're a few generations in at least here in the United States where people don't know how to ask questions and think for themselves history keeps being rewritten we're not being told the facts anymore we're being given a propaganda and a narrative that leads us down a route to believe things that aren't true and as a result this is why and Tiger King's a great example the entire story that people think they know about Joe you know they think they that Joe was killing tigers because he needed more room in his zoo not that he was euthanizing a sick or elderly animal that wasn't going to survive they they think they care a bit I mean all of the things and this is how it goes in all of the news cycles and all of the entertainment cycles they tell you what they want you to believe because they get your interest in your emotions into it and then we just settle into believing and we don't step back and go I wonder what the facts actually are I wonder where the truth actually lies in whatever's happening in our in our countries in our culture in our cities in our townships our villages wherever we live what's really happening yeah because but the the power of the media it can manipulate so fast and so easy look at lockdown the lockdown the world people were too scared to leave their house people are still scared to leave their house yes a virus it was 99.9% safe it was right it's just the human mind can be so dumbed down and this is the scary facts of human beings we're so manipulated it's unbelievable and like you says I agree with everything you say I've got friends of every race every fucking gender be who they want to be I've got trans people who's been on the podcast to a fucking love to bits but they're crazy Michael they're crazy they're crazy they're mipp body dysmorphia was a thing of mental health just a few years ago it doesn't just then gop in vannies the majority of people who want to be trans and cut off their tits and their dick is a mental health issue you've got to speak facts and it's not that they're bad people but we can't promote it as normal as long as drag shows nobody cares about drag shows it's just the kids get involved and keep it 18 plus is something is that Sam Smith's kind of doing his thing on stage which I don't agree with and he's doing mad shit and it looks all satanic to me and it looks as if people can be lost in that loop where they're trying to feed it and normalise it but it ain't normal and people like myself yourself who speak out about it we get ridiculed we get cancelled we get told to shut up and be quiet but no because I've got trans friends but they don't phone me to come up and read stories to my kids at night time I would fuck if my straight friends done that I would be fucking telling them to fuck off do you know I mean so it doesn't matter who you are what you are just leave the kids alone I just think they're trying to normalise pedophilia I feel as if they're trying to normalise the age I consent to bring it down lower I just feel as if they're trying to normalise so much madness and it makes you think that you're going insane and I do question am I in the wrong because when you speak out about it you get there's a wave of hate and it's fucking strong it's not just a lot of people believe in that but a lot of people are too scared to speak out about that so it's kind of you're like a lone wolf with a lot of this stuff and sometimes you just feel it going quiet because it can be damaging to the mind because it's a constant battle of what and I feel as if the media what that battle with everybody fighting and arguing and hating each other then they're running instead of making a stand and actually standing against the people in power well we you know and here's what's sad to me and and actually it really stands out to me because you know it was a it was a you know media sensation here when I was in high school but you know I think about this just a crossover with the culture where you're from but the culture that built every nation on this planet but when and when the movie brain part came out you know everybody gets inspired by the character William Wallace right and so you're inspired by it well then I end up coming over there and living for a while and so I go to see like I want to really get into this history who's Robert the Bruce who's William Wallace like how's what is this real story but what's really underneath the story and and I'll tie this in here is the warrior if you said I'm not taking the shit anymore so no matter how much they ostracize me no matter how much they want to take me out no matter how much they want to suppress me I'll give my life to this thing then what's happened is we've become a global society of people who are too weak to step up to the plate and go I'll fight and if he costs me everything fine but what I'm not going to do is let this shit continues to infect culture enough that it destroys my children my grandchildren the future of my nation my call you know all of those things and it's it's a sad thing to me and and as men what is really sad to me is that we've been told you can't be masculine you can't be an alpha you can't step up to the plate and be that brave warrior any longer because that's chauvinistic and it's you know oppressive and it's wrong or a supremacist or what you know whatever term they put put on it and I see back here let's just bullshit like my job not only is to provide for my family to protect my home and and to watch over the things that I've chosen but I also have a moral responsibility to step up the fight and go don't fuck up the world around me because when you do that I'll come out fighting I'll come out swinging and if you take me out in the process at least I went out for doing the right thing but I'm not going to sit back anymore and just say let's be comfortable but the problem is there's so few of us who will step up to the plate and speak the truth because people are too afraid to get uncanceled and they're too afraid of being called crazy or they're too afraid of being disliked like the hell would you if you don't like me fuck off I don't care like I'm just here you know and so there's like here in the US with Joe with Joe exotic running for president you know people don't know what to think about that he's a character you know they just give them that way they don't take it as seriously then I go yeah but the difference is Joe's the guy who's fighting for your basic freedoms to get the country back to you to reduce the government you know to fight for what this country what this country was founded on to get the fuck out from under the crown you know to basically say hey we don't have a ruling class we have a nation by the people for the people and to say we're going to live with freedom Joe's the only one who genuinely steps of the plate to say that but people are so taken aback by somebody actually saying the truth anymore and then they'll say to me oh I can't believe you you'll you'll risk your reputation then I'm like I'm I'm risking my reputation not for Joe I risked my reputation to fight for this country to fight for the future for my children and so I don't care if you think it's smarter you like it or you don't like the bottom line is there's gonna be some warriors to step up to the plate and go fuck it I'm gonna fight we're gonna fight we're gonna take that we're gonna take this thing back and I think we've got to do that with our culture when you get to the trans issues and all those other things I have no problem like I'm friends with pretty notable you know trans and drag queen type individuals around the country and you know here for the U.S. and it's easy for me to just say straight talk I don't give a shit what you do do your thing like if you major you're happy living your life you don't like you said don't fucking bring it around like it's you know don't think you make it and the majority of the world think that way it's 2023 year the majority of people don't really care a lot of people just want to go on with their life but when it's getting through in people's faces just mad shit it's just I've got kids so I do everything in my power to protect him and if I'm in that toy if my daughter's going to the toilet and some hairy ass man comes in identifying as a woman when he's clearly not it's just that upsets me because it's not normal like you said we've all got different friends from all walks of life we had just had month there and everybody walked nobody's hating on anybody are gay bashing are hating on trans I don't I'm not nobody's asked it's just when it's kids involved and attract normalized mad shit and make out there's more genders and what they are and people going to prison for misgendering people and they've got pronouns it's just tiring because people just don't fucking want to go on with our life without having to rewrite history and change everything nobody fucking cares but it's just when the media portray it and then everybody thinks they're targeting certain people they're genuinely not but when I see people like if I do in their self there was a man in a gym who went into the women's toilets then the man's toilets and you can just tell he's a CDO fucking man but yet right the police couldn't do anything the women were scared and it's just all you can't misgender me I identify as this but I'm just going to start identifying as an MMA fighter mate and just that beating fuck out anybody I see doing wrong mate that's my next job well you know it's so funny because I you know part of this I've I've recently had you know incredible amounts of like we've got death threats I've had them send the police to my home to disrupt my life and all this stuff and part of it stems from an individual who can't stand the fact that in my social media lot I talk about being a hundred percent alpha and the kind of male that fights for truth and justice and fuck all the agenda right they can't stand that they want me to be quiet they want me to sit down and shut up they want me to be like what they what they often say is odd just me want you to love everybody I love everybody I do I don't have listen you can fuck up big time I'm friends I mean look I am good friends with Joe exotic regardless of what people believe or not the man's in prison for attempt to say supposedly trying to have someone kill I love Joe and even even if that were true and it's not about Joe but even if that were true that doesn't mean I'm not going to be his friend and love you know I don't care if you've got a past what I care about is you're not you're not out there fucking up other people's lives and I will get in the way of that doesn't mean I don't care about but what I'm not going to do is I don't I'm not a tight who's so weak and this is where we come to as a society across the globe we become well to some extent there's some countries that get a lot of flak you know that for not putting up with stuff and then they get called hatred you know the hateful and genociding and all this stuff like they quit they don't put up with it you know there's some countries that the further you go east and the closer you get to Asia man some dude dressed as a woman shows up the girl's bathroom and tries to Mercedes shit with some kid they're gonna kill it like and I'm not necessarily saying you kill them but they deal with the issue and I think we've just gone so far we become weak we just become weak we're weak minded and then we're just weak here and you know I get so much hatred for stepping up and going to hell with it I'm not playing the weak game I'm not doing I'm not doing it and yeah it it might hurt when you step up to it because you get punched you get knocked down in time or two okay like what major great movement in the world and what great leader hasn't gotten the shit kicked out of him in time or two or got knocked over they did that's what it takes you've got to be willing to take the hits yeah who the fuck wants to go through life Michael without any scratches brother right it's just a big game anyway and it's it's just mad I'm not a religious man and a lot of religions are kind of I don't know some I believe in that's the fact I don't I just I'm just open minded to everything obviously you get the Muslim community which is very fun when don't take much shit and you've got the Christianity Buddhist I'm not really I'm just happy that people can be happy in life be who they want to be choose what they want to choose I just don't throw it in anybody's face so back to Joe listen great conversation so far I love this kind of shit I wasn't expecting this but this is where it's all about just having a conversation without arguing without pressing people this is my beliefs and telling you you should believe in what I believe and you should be no just a conversation this is what life should be about and so much things could be solved better by just talking it out and just that's right but I always say we're all fucked up Michael we're just fucking that's lunatics everybody is we're just see the world we want I swear we're all I've spoke to enough people now to realize if you're a billionaire homeless gay straight by trans we're all fucked up we'll talk a good game and just we try and wing it as much as we can but that's right for Joe so what is Joe's actual charge they get 22 years in prison how did the charge come about and did he know who's going to prison let's talk about it from then his court case yeah so I mean the primary charge goes back to obviously the story that you see in Tiger King which is this attempt to have Carol Baskin killed and it's a supposed plot that he hired Alan Glover who you see in the show who came to work there a former former well you know a convicted shell and supposedly paid him $3,000 to go to Florida and kill right and of course there's a lot of talk listen Joe Joe's never as well about Joe Joe's what you see is what you get so like he's it's a genuine statement when he says I wish somebody would just take her out and she needs to go away she's a pain in his ass she destroyed his business she was destroying his rights she was getting in the way not just of his you see Joe's been a warrior for the people so he saw that she was trying to get in the way of the rights of other like of Americans and he's like I just won't take it I'm not I'm not going to take it so he got vocal about it and just like you or me if anybody gets in the way of our business and they do it over and over again for a decade I we're all going to get vocal like I'm going to be saying fuck you go away you know I'm going to beat your ass whatever like that's Joe and so the basically the the entertainment officials and Netflix and other other folks involved with our Department of Justice here at America they basically paid off and coach witnesses to get false testimony and in that particular charge but that charge wasn't enough to stick I mean he could get it he could get jail time for supposedly doing it but not 22 years and so in order to put him away for longer they stacked charges on top of it which was animal cruelty and an interest state movement of animals across state lines here in the United States all of which are kind of they're like process crimes like the bullshit they're trying to pull off with former President Trump here in the United States you know it's this idea their take with Joe was show me the man I'll show you the crime you know there's 300,000 plus laws here in the United States it I can show me anybody I'll show you how they broke the law somewhere you know we would all be guilty of something as a result of having so much law over our heads right and so they specifically point to Joe killing five tigers and saying that it was animal cruelty and that's what they charged him what the reason they were able to it's a technical thing so like I'm licensed by the United States Department of Agriculture to care for the animals that I have and part of that care my veterinarian writes up a protocol for when that animal needs to be euthanized because they're sick or old or you know whatever the the scenario is and my protocol says that I have to give them an injection in their muscle to make them relax sedate them then I give them a shot intravenously to stop their heart right and if I don't follow that exact protocol then I have violated a federal law process right well with the tiger and this is what people don't understand and I spent a lot of time explaining this specifically cats that are predators like tigers everything's about a sense of smell not the site it's the smell it's the sense so if you walk into an enclosure with a sick animal and you're carrying a syringe full of medicine to kill that animal to euthanize that animal but other animals around smell that same smell so if you enter that enclosure and that smell is there and then that animal's dead because they smell death the minute it happens okay so all of this is all factory sensory reality then the next time you walk out with that syringe their their instinct kicks in and they'll kill you to make sure you don't kill them right so the quickest and most humane way to euthanize a large animal which listen I you know I grew up around farms in the country you know as a matter of fact one of my favorite farms actually ever went to though was actually over near Dunkelton in Scotland up with up with the Highland sheep and the cows up there but they were they were killing sheep that day and using the bolt gun right they shoot a right between the eyes right it's instant humane there's no suffering there's no pain there's no and that's how Joe approached me when those tigers were sick and needed to be put down he walked in and shot and he put them out of their misery he did it out of compassion but because he didn't follow what was written by the veterinarian on a piece of paper that's filed with the US government it gave them a technicality to charge Joe with five instances of animal cruelty right so they stacked all these charges and were able to get a maximum sentence over Joe by putting all of these charges together after the fact so no one by the way Joe is the first person to serve jail time for that animal cruelty ever in the United States okay so it's a ridiculous reality but when it relates to Carol Baskin and the conspiracy to commit murder since since the case in the trial the shows come out all of the individuals involved in testifying against Joe have come back on video testimony and sworn affidavits and said we committed perjury we were paid off and or coerced by entertainment officials or government officials to give false testimony so they could get this conviction to put Joe in prison and since that time Joe is filed an appeal we're 15 months now since that appeal was filed the Department of Justice in the United States will not see that appeal right now because they are waiting for a statute of limitations to run out at the end of this year so that the federal officials who did those corrupt things cannot also be charged with the crime so if the conviction were to be overturned you cannot go back then and convict the individuals who committed perjury and or corrupt practices bribery all of the sort of things that occurred and so I believe our Department of Justice is covering for itself and you know right now they put Joe in solitary because he's gotten louder and louder as we get closer to time running out on on the statute of limitations and so a month ago when Joe was slated to appear on national television and talk about all of this within an hour of announcing it they put him in solitary confinement and locked him down he's no access to email phone calls any of those ways to communicate with anybody outside the prison besides writing a note and you know and he has no international people I mean it's really it's really really bad but that's that's our American Department of Justice which is they will silence the ones who are calling out the corruption in the system and you know they can't show that they did a bad thing to Joe because that would show correction but of course we're watching it here in America I mean we have a president whose son should be in prison for drug trafficking for human trafficking for all these things and he's protected because he's in the elite you know the elite and Joe's not Joe doesn't have any money to fight the case so therefore you know you can't hire a big shot lawyer to get all this kind of coverage and help taken care of and so he becomes a lost voice in the system whereas the ultra-wealthy or the politically connected get get a free pass when their crimes are documented by themselves I mean Hunter Biden has documented every crime he's ever committed because he's a dumbass and it's all out there we've all seen it we can all get a copy of it and yet they're like yeah it's not a big deal we're not going to do anything unless you have money unless you have money or power we have peasants we're nobody's looking at Epstein's fucking flight logs look at the names on that it's never come out it's never come out why because there's so much money these people wouldn't say they rule the world but they've got a big percentage of how it operates and how it manipulate the masses and like I says Ella human beings can manipulate it easy we can the flight logs where Glenn Maxwell just got to prison but what happened you've got Will Smith all over the world media slapping Chris rock on the news big deflection people forget what about the kids obviously we've just the the Tim Tim is it Tim Ballard yes just released a documentary yes I forget what it's called down freedom yeah yeah and but there seems to be a massive movement of people people are just tired of it people a lot of people people call jack in spirits if he is then two years ago five years ago ten years ago you can't beckon spirits if he is the favorite thing comes fucking true right right that's a scary thing how can people not see that it's wild you know when you talk about the human trafficking thing so I spent a lot of years I mean 23 years now working in the country of Haiti and specifically working with orphans and and child welfare and I know Tim Ballard Tim actually was an instrumental I have a daughter that's adopted from Haiti and Tim was very instrumental in making sure that the logistics around some of her adoption were were in place so I have a special place for Tim and really respect him but I and Tim will speak to it as well I know but I'm always careful about you want dirt on Bill and Hillary Clinton for trafficking and and abusing children out of the country of Haiti man I gotta stack a mile deep but of course do I end up like Epstein because you know you have to ask yourself because then you go back to the Epstein thing and you think okay you've convicted Elaine Maxwell was convicted of trafficking minors to no one like that's essentially what it is she trafficked minors but basically to no one because who the hell was she trafficking to they won't tell anybody so you know just like you know I had a good friend who went to to investigate the Clintons uh in their in their work of taking care of children in Haiti and I we ended up on a plane next to each other flying into the country and she told me what she was doing and I remember telling Michelle I was like Michelle if you do this it's they're gonna get you they're gonna get you and sure enough three days later they found her chopped up in pieces in a ditch in the middle of Haiti and so it's this really crazy and again Joe's another one like I he's he's got cancer he's not getting treatment they're not feeding him properly I mean the man's right now having to brush his teeth with a dish rag they won't give him a toothbrush or toothpaste it's like it's it's human torture what they're due to people to keep them quiet they would rather Joe die in solitary because the whole problem goes away than to deal with it and I think that's the way that our our justice system across the world is working because I mean even there in the UK you got a member of the royal family we know is on the manifest we know was part of trafficking kids and screwing young girls under Epstein's provision and yet the most they did is take his HRH off his name like who the fuck cares I don't care if he strip his title put his ass in jail I don't care if his name is Prince Andrew who the fuck cares like you fuck with kids man like you gotta pay the price it's not okay like it's just not okay and yet somehow you know and I think you guys did did did we not just have a guy like an entertainment executive who just you know came out that he was sleeping with minors and never he's treating him like he's a victim it's like bro like wake the fuck up like no you're not a victim you're an asshole like but I think that they come out with the mental health card or they come out as gay and then it's like a free pass nobody fucking cares if you're abusing kids if you're grooming kids you're a fucking groomer you deserve to die you deserve life in prison the Russian the Russians have got it spot on life in prison life in prison Australia the thing about the UK they get community service they get let out of prison they get lenient sentences to then change their name for less than 20 dollars right change their name change passports driving licenses why because the fucking high-end people here are all involved in my eyes not everyone you can't tar everybody with the same brush but to get to that elite level you have got to be involved in some sort of fuckery I don't care who you are what you are the elite control everything in the UK alone in the UK alone I mean you've got the probably the most notorious is Jimmy Seville and you know you have that whole story but the man was in with the elite so explain to me how nobody touching Seville is also guilty of the same thing and we're not talking about it like you know you can make a doc I mean Netflix has a whole documentary on Seville and it uses to back and go yeah but look at all the people he was around and what if like who's dumb enough to think that somebody else wasn't somehow touching that shit and didn't know that's my other thing like if you know when you don't do anything you might as well be the one doing it sticks so again like you know when you look back across these breakdowns in culture and I think it's really interesting but this shows again our our mental weakness and aptitude has dissipated so much as a as a human race that we we can take somebody like Joe who Joe exotics one of the most notable celebrities on the whole planet right now in modern history because of a cultural sensation that happened during the pandemic and the man sitting in a false conviction he's being silenced and people aren't scratching their heads and going man something just doesn't seem right they just sit back and take the narrative and go there's nothing I can do and I think that's we do that we apply that same thought process no matter who it is or what it is so whether it's Prince Andrew sleeping with minor girls on a private island or hell probably in the palace for all we know you know I just like we take this mental weakness approach to go I can't do anything so I might as well not question like well we didn't rise up and have revolutions across this planet because people were weak minded like this it's I think it's time as a and I'd say this in America a lot but I think it's everywhere in a modern society where we have to go man the like the woke mind virus thing has got to go we got a step of the play to go it's time to have a revolution and call for truth and fight for those who are able to fight for themselves and and not be afraid of the elites it's time to steamroll the bullshit out of this thing and get back to a place where like you said we can actually just live our lives and be happy people and we're with freedom that's the majority of people want to do it it's just eight billion people on the planet and it scares me you only need to less than one percent of those people to make a stand and that's right you're freedom back you've got some element of control don't get me wrong I believe there's got to be laws in this world because people are fucking scary and they run ragging like the laws are great for people not being harmed and murder and sexual crimes and you've got to have some sort of control and laws in place where people can sure there's got to be boundaries for human beings because if it was a free for all I believe the world would be in torment but it already is now and we go back to the Epstein thing Prince Andrew he was unknown sex case Epstein Prince Andrew said they went to visit home for five days so he could break off his friendship the fucking Prince of England his away it's just I had a man on who worked at the royal family and he was talking about Prince Andrew had like 60 70 teddy bears on his bed and it's strange in itself but I don't have all the answers but as a human being and I like to think I've got good intuition of who's right and who's wrong and what the fuck it's all about and it's just he done an interview and I think fuck me you're guilty sin there's no these people are so above the average person that what they think they are that they think everybody's fucking done as fuck because they're so used to yes men they think they can say well I was in a pizza shop and I don't sweat and those videos and photos are fake but the proof is there you went to week one of the biggest traffickers on the fucking planet not just one but multiple occasions and you're supposed to be the prince of fucking England it's just for me it's just all fucked up shit but the more we speak out your life does become in danger this ain't a fucking joke me and you speaking like this ain't no joke Michael it's it's fucking life or death and you think nah but fucking this shit happens and when you start getting a voice you're a danger that's right fucking dance to our tune if you don't tell you what we want you to say and you don't do it then we wait to see what fucking happens yeah and that's just happen if you go through the fucking hundreds and hundreds of years thousands of years the same tools and techniques are there you don't abide by the whoever's in charge well you go miss him nothing's changed that's does happen people just think ah you're a conspiracy theorist but right the laws are there the ones who get cancelled are the ones who are telling the truth yep you know it's interesting here in the states and I think about us a lot you know President Trump was on track to pardon Joe he was also really on track and he should have pardoned Eric Snowden and Julian Assange and some of these guys who have exposed the American corruption but I think even those at the top elite are being threatened by the top elite and they get weak and they just go man I can't like it's gonna cost me too much like again like at some point you know do I want somebody to take me out because I'm speaking truth no I want to be I want to be respected for speaking the truth but the reality is like you said throughout history and and throughout cultures all over this planet those who call out the truth are martyrs you know when you look throughout history I mean you can even look at the basics of certain things the man who told everybody before you're going to surgery as a medical doctor you need to wash your hands because you're gonna get germs in and kill people they put his ass in and the same aside because they told him he was fucking crazy for telling people they needed to sanitize their hands before they went digging in somebody's open body cap like it's a simple truth but the reality is is when it becomes inconvenient and it's more costly to live in the truth they murder the those who tell the truth and so yeah look at the man who made the cars run on water right asked if this appeared the next day fucking dead killed him everything everything on this planet should be free they don't need to be there doesn't need to be money there doesn't need to be oils and petrol and fuels and whatever it is it's just all control from second hand alcohol you know you talk about this it's a give and take of society right and you think about you go back to and again I you know this is hard for americans to grasp because they just have an economic like an industrial economic view of existence because this country is just a couple of hundred years old and it was built on dollars of trade and and all of that but you go back to cultures like like yours that have existed for thousands of years and villages didn't operate on money they operated on on goodwill and trading services hey I'll I'll put the shoes on your horse if you'll give me corn you know I mean it was just a give and take of of common decency of taking care of your fellow human but you know even think back I asked my grandpa you know a long time ago when we're talking about just like domestic abuse type things in the way people treat each other and I said to my grandpa I said what did you do back in the day some dudes beating his wife he goes the rest of us men in the neighborhood get together and go over knock on his front door and tell him you're gonna stop doing that shit and he doesn't if he didn't stop doing that shit the next time he saw us he was gonna be able he wouldn't gonna be able to do anything on his own ever again maybe he'd be in every meal through a straw you know he's like he's like because that's the way humans are supposed to interact there's a give and take and accountability and responsibility and and the problem is is again we've become lazy and weak minded and they'll be buying this narrative and and this is what's really sad because we've got this mental health issue that's pervaded our culture and I think a big part of it stems from everybody's being told depending on what angle you come from you're not the way you and I just said it like we're all fucked up but what they're being told is you're you're fucked and you're not okay so you can't open your mouth and speak to anything because something's wrong with you know you don't like somebody or you don't agree with this or because we don't all agree you're a fucked up person like and and people have begun to believe that they think something's wrong with them so they don't lean into intuition and decency responsibility and accountability any longer and they wait for somebody else to tell them what to do and how to do it yeah when did Joe get cancer michael Joe has been we we are this year I think this is year number three since his diagnosis of prostate cancer and again he's not getting the treatment that he needs currently uh you know without he's not getting any any proper nutrition and you know my my fear is as a result of those things regardless of a partner not Joe's life is going to be cut short because of just a lack of care you know a lack of resources because in in the american prison system which I know this is true I mean they're worth prison systems for sure but it's like human trafficking I mean they've got him in there the longer they keep him in there they make money you know whoever's running the prison makes money off of Joe and if they don't have to spend that money to take care of Joe they get to put more in their pockets and so there's just this gross negligence and lack of care for humankind and listen criminals are criminals and even if Joe was a true criminal it doesn't take away his humanity you know and it doesn't take away the accountability or responsibility that were you know short of execute you know an execution in a death sentence you were still tasked with responsibility to care for the basic human needs and even Joe right now nobody's taking care of the basic human needs you know he's he's locked in a small six-foot concrete cell with no interaction with people and in the united states prison system when you're in solitary confinement the only contact you can have with another human being is to have your shackles put on or taken off or if you have a medical emergency the guards are not allowed to touch you so you got to think about this from a human human nature standpoint like regardless of your connection to somebody else that human touch by another human just reminds your soul you're alive right so when you put somebody in a in a complete deprivation of not even getting a handshake or a touch on the shoulder of being locked away without any stimulation no reading material no listening nothing to keep your mental stimulation up no proper nutrition not the ability to bathe or to you know execute basic hygiene you're literally driving someone to the edge of being completely broken mental insanity emotional breaking and and ultimately physically because when we start to lose ourselves emotionally and and mentally our physical pays the price because all of those things come out in the way our bodies react right so what they've done to joe i mean they're essentially i mean they're essentially it kind of a it's like waterboarding it's like this place where they basically put him to say we're gonna slowly torture you till you die and we don't care about the outcome because he's and sadly this is true and again i've got good friends who have been in prison i have good friends who are currently in prison and some of them for some pretty atrocious crimes i mean i'm i'm actually be some friends with some notorious serial killers because i had a i had a real curiosity of how does this human nature of somebody regardless of the level of their crime like what happens to that person because they're still a human being still breathing like how do you maintain any sense of humanity and whether they're entitled to dignity or not i don't know you know i'm not the judge of that but i really care about the the state of human and i look at this in the prison system in america they don't care your your piece of trash your your a meal ticket for those at the top your paying salaries because of your presence and they don't give a damn whether you are healthy or okay or stable or anything because really and truly you know at the end of the day if they let joe die in prison they're going to stick somebody else in that same space and they're going to make the money again because it's a broken system it's driven by money it's driven by greed it's driven by power and there's a lack of care for a human being and again i think that's pervasive through our culture as a whole which is funny because what are we doing is a as a culture everywhere across the planet we're protecting minorities and we're trying to humanize all of these things instead of looking at the greater whole and say how do we in fact care for our fellow human being as a whole not just somebody wants to cut their wiener off or or you know somebody with a different skin color or all of that but rather the whole of humanity how was joe treated in prison like trash now by the other inmates he's for the most part he's he's really loved by the other inmates um joe's very caring he gives the shirt off his back of me he'll empty out his commissary account to provide for somebody else before he takes care of himself so his fellow inmates you know a number of them that are even out now uh that i've spoken to they love joe says the kindest person in the world but the the prison officials they they don't put up with joe because joe's a voice that speaks out against the corruption so they treat they abuse him they physically harmed him they're always mentally getting in the way um they they do not treat him well at all at all how close how close was joe been getting a pardon from trump how is that accurate i think that he i think he probably would have ended up with it but that day that the meeting was to take place was january 6 with here which here in america has become quite a day through a variety and it kind of derailed a lot of things because that was the day that president trump was supposedly going to review all of the pardons that were there for the end of his term um and of course that never occurred so uh and as as of current no one in the biden administration will even take a meeting to even consider uh you know reviewing joe's case for the opportunity and a pardon that not much less the department of justice won't even review his appeal so it's very evident the way the system is just hijacked here in the united states to protect the elite and ignore everybody else so joe's running for prison did he say is that correct he is so how does he do that from prison it's very difficult not you know certainly not going to start around that but constitutionally here in the united states you do have the right and freedom to run for office from a federal prison while an inmate this is joe is is the second person ever in the history of the united states to put together a presidential campaign from prison but for joe to do that successfully it's taken our team myself and a and a good number of other volunteers we're all voluntary uh you know to serve joe out of our own our own time and money uh to to help this because we believe in why joe's running um you know what's been interesting is the media kind of has ignored joe which is funny because the media has never ignored joe they you know joe's great for clickbait and headlines but his presidential campaign they have for all intent and purpose acted as though it doesn't exist because he's disrupting the narrative he's not falling into line with the typical campaign promises of you know lower lowering you know are raising the wages and protecting the minorities and all this because joe's back to the fact that let's go to human decency let's let some things fail let's fix our economy let's get rid of big government let's get rid of all the extra taxes you know let's go back to the basics of just having life and they don't like that so they justify it by there's no way the man could get elected because he's in prison but that's not true and i think if more americans and more people across the planet i watch this in other countries where they got tired of the politics and they got tired of the politicians and they probably said to hell with all of you guys in the establishment we're going to go find the rogue guy and put him in office because we need a normal person we need the average american or the average wherever country you're from to step up and finally represent us again somebody who understands the average guy nelson mandela he spent over 20 years in prison that's right he done wonders for south africa man south africa is dangerous place i think though yeah really dangerous now i've never been but just i've got friends there and they're just scary people just get in their cars and killed and shit it was fucking mad but then the world's mad in a hole so how serious is this then for joe to really go forward with it or is it a publicity stunt or does he genuinely believe it can make changes how how does it work and what's his method of thinking behind that yeah it's very very genuine joe really does believe that yeah joe's i mean our campaign slogan is what do you have to lose because it's really joe's reality he's got nothing so where you get out of prison he's it he's it's square one starting over with nothing so he doesn't have a business all he's got is a reputation of the tiger king and that's good or bad depending on how you you joe's character um you know and so for him he built his business he built the zoo he built his life he built his family on his freedom to live his life how he wanted you know to pay his taxes fairly to live without disrupting somebody else's life and so he he knows that's what this country is supposed to be about he wants to represent that give it back to the people and get rid of the the woke mess that has become our government it's a very serious campaign um does it help in getting exposure to his case and his story of course it does so it does it plays a role as a publicity stunt but the heart behind it has nothing to do with being a publicity stunt it is very serious this is joe's third attempt at running for office he ran for office he's the governor of Oklahoma and then he this is his second time running for president of the united states uh he's much more serious we worked really hard to raise funds to make sure that he's on the ballot in key states that he's accepted across all fifty states here in the united here in the united states and um we really believe that that there's a chance should people hear his voice and understand that when joe talks about reducing the size of the government and getting rid of all of our extra agencies it's real it's not a political talking point it's not a sales job to the american people that it because those are the very groups of people who destroyed joe's life so he has purpose and meaning behind why he wants to do that when he talks about reducing the size of government and giving the control back to the individual states then allowing someone's vote to actually count he means it and joe's approach to that is you got it you just got to tear it down you got to let it fail some things need to burn to the ground maybe even literally i don't know but he's not afraid you know joe's joe's real attempt is hey we're not we can't live in this everybody gets a medal everybody gets a prize society anymore this isn't a blue ribbon society some things fail we got to quit bailing out the banks we got to quit funding other people's wars we've got to turn back on drilling for oil and natural resources in our country because it's our power it's how we built our economics we've got to tap into our natural resources and sell them to other people not be the one buying them not be the one giving all of our resources away we have to turn our eyes back into this nation and fight for america first period and then we can help other people but but the problem is a lot of people and a lot of other candidates that are running for president of the states right now they say all those things but the truth is they are establishment politicians or they're the elite wealthy and there's some good men in the mix i think you know they mean well but they don't have the personal reasoning and drive because they haven't been the average guy ever in their life so to be empathetic to what the average american goes through joe's the only candidate who truly can speak to the average american experience then actually be a representative of that how long is joe and solitary confinement for joe joe is going to be i mean we don't really know exactly how long joe will be in solitary he's been in now for a month the last time that they did this to joe they left him in solitary confinement for four months that's a long time man yeah was that the last time you spoke to him before he went in yeah the last time we had a conversation now we write back and forth and letters weekly um but as far as my last conversation was about three days before they put him solitary so what's the plans then for the future when joe gets out what's the structure that he's going to do yeah i mean when when joe regardless of the campaign i mean if we get joe out of prison sooner than later and there are some laws that pass here in the united states hopefully the next few months that will reduce his sentence naturally uh should they pass so he would be home in a few more years um i think for joe joe just if he's not going to be serving in a public office for joe he just wants to go back to having a normal life you know but and i tell joe this because joe wasn't joe was it famous when he went to jail and i told joe i said you'll never have a normal life but you can't just go down to the the convenience store and get a get a soda and not be and not be recognized everybody knows who joe is so i said you're gonna you're gonna have to re-enter this world and learn how to live again in a new way that you've never known before and uh you know we take it one day at a time but for me you know from my point of view as a friend of joe and as someone who would fight tooth and nail for joe's freedom but also for joe's opportunity to serve others um i just i just want to see joe get out there and and i want to see joe find a sense of peace and i tell joe i've told him many times maybe the smartest thing you'll ever do when you get out of there if you're not if you're not serving in public office somewhere is to disappear just disappear man just go live your life and be happy you know there's so many people that want notoriety and want fame and joe loves being out there um but uh you know and i think joe will i think joe will still be an entertainer no matter what uh you know i can see joe doing a lot of entertaining and i think he'll spend a lot of time outside of the united states when he does get out of prison because i think that the rest of the world loves joe and they are not they are not disillusioned by the mess that our government and our media has has told the lies about joe all these years does it get a lot of fan mail may cool you're not as much as you would think you know what's interesting and and maybe you've experienced this with other people everybody probably assumes that that joe gets all these things so then they go i won't write a letter because you probably won't see mine or i won't send that because he gets so many and i think every almost everybody thinks that and so he doesn't get as much as you would think and so i've told everybody like everybody can go over they can see all of the resources like we talk about the corruption in this case it's on joe exotic 2024.com um and so they can go over there look at that but there's a us his address and everything's there for folks to write him a letter i tell everybody write joe a letter it encourages him it lifts his spirits especially right now while he's in solitary those notes of just encouragement or somebody just saying hey thank you joe appreciates when somebody if all somebody said to joe was hey during the pandemic life sucked pretty bad and thanks to what you guys did with the tiger king it just gave me a little joy you know it added a little something to my life at a dark time across the across the globe uh it means a lot to joe when he hears those things because joe wasn't he didn't get to experience it the way we did do you think you ever get out he'll get out he'll get out as long as his health does not deteriorate to the point that he cannot survive joe will get out he'll be an old man if he has to serve his whole sentence he'll be nearly 80 years old but you know if he had to serve all 22 years i mean he's already served five and you know so he's got about 17 years left on the actual sentence um you know he'd be nearing 80 years old by the time he got out if he has to serve at all i'm believed with the laws passing joe will find himself out of prison before his 65th birthday and if his health continues to deteriorate maybe a compassionate release to allow him to take care of his health in whatever time he has left but um you know my hope is that the eyes of the world but the eyes of our leadership here in the united states would be open enough to take another book and grant joe that pardon so that he can just go on with his life yeah like i say the tiger king was massive and you can love that i thought it was it's great entertainment you don't really see obviously when you speak to you and hear about joe he was a mad bastard on the tiger king but the way you speak about him it doesn't really portray that picture he just looked like a loose cannon on the on netflix and he didn't really respect the animals and you are hearing that he killed them and he was trying to kill the women but when you actually break it all down if he's everything that you say then he probably is a decent guy but the netflix sell stories and him going to prison probably made it even bigger so you don't even know who was behind that because it's all money at the end of the day and if people can get more money and they're happy to throw people in prison then by all means they'll fucking do you know i think at times they put little bits and pieces in the documentary on netflix to to let people maybe see a little piece of joe like when you see that joe did Thanksgiving or Christmas dinners and fed the whole community these were things that joe does all the time where he would give whatever money he has or whatever resources he has to help somebody like joe is one of the most generous and giving people that i've ever met that he's very serving and you miss that because you see the showman you see the flamboyant loudmouth you know fun joe um but you don't get to see the full picture of a man who literally you know they make jokes about it in the show too with the men that that he shared his life with his partners you know giving them gifts and stuff all the time joe did that because he just is a giving person like it's his natural thing it wasn't pretty of the purpose and that joe bought him a car or gave him a new gun or what you know whatever you see in the show it wasn't for any other purpose than joe just wants to give to people he loves people and he loves to give to people and i've experienced that personally as a friend of joe's where you know joe's offered time you know he only gets so much time when he's not in solitary he gets 500 minutes a month to have a phone call and joe would carve out a chunk of that time to to show up with me to create content to do things and i don't have a lot to offer joe other than just being his friend right but you know joe joe offering that to me when at times maybe he needed to needed to try to do more for himself you know and so joe joe is just a very giving incredible person and and he loves people who was the kid was at the second when the kid killed himself yeah who who was that it was that and he has a lot of his partners and i i think that it was a pure accident you know i've talked to folks who were there when that occurred it really was a pure accident i think there was stress because again what people really see in the story is the the zoo was suffering the business was suffering joe was suffering from his stress and anxiety because of what carol was doing to them and what carol was doing to their business and i think you had enough of a stress and things going on that the story looked really a lot more intense than it was it was a tragic accident you know it was a it was a it was a bad position and i think everybody who was there at the time was just walking through stress and anxiety but you know he didn't go shoot himself because he was depressed he was playing irresponsibly with a firearm and uh and it happens unfortunately it happens but is there going to be any more seasons of the tiger king if joe gets out you can get you can guarantee it now the other characters the jeff loes and all those guys you were on the show they act like there always is but those guys are the biggest con artists and liars on the entire planet and they're always telling people oh we're filming another season we're starting this whole thing they're not they're they're full of shit they're lying all the time and the only other person who could probably pull off another season is carol but i think the uh the the public as a whole knows carol's full of shit nobody really wants to hear from carol anymore i think people are waiting to see is there going to be a rebirth of joe you know down the road and what's going to be hard i think for most people to realize at least by the laws here in the united states regardless of joe getting pardoned it's highly unlikely that the the department of agriculture here will ever grant joe the opportunity to build another zoom but i also don't believe joe has the intention to build even what he loves animals he wants to do the the animal thing but i think the risk of rebuilding joe exotic in the gw exotic zoo and all of that that it'll it'll it'll be something different in chapter two of joe's life um you know but but uh there would definitely be because we we've collected footage uh from prison we've collected information during this season these five years and uh there's enough there's enough there for two or three more seasons honestly but it all it all kind of hinges on whether joe is out of prison because it won't work for joe to be in prison they don't allow us to to produce or go and do any type of production inside the prison facility where did all these animals go did they get took off them so yeah they got taken off of them carol took uh carol took a lot of them you know they care carol got her hands on a lot of them um they got put in different sanctuaries and then a number of them were just euthanized you know when organizations like pita get involved and they're not all bad i mean britney pita pita did come along and help joe she even testified on joe's behalf at the trial so you know i'm quick to sometimes speak poorly of pita at the same time some of the animals that were placed by pita were ultimately euthanized because the facilities could not afford to care for those animals and so unfortunately a lot of animals met their demise because uh they were you know disabled or had some sort of a special need that other facilities weren't willing to care for and so those animals were destroyed what about yourself maker what's your plans for the future i'm just living my life man 100 percent i'm i'm listening all i care about at this stage in my life is that all of my kids grow up to be productive adults man i've got you know i've got seven kids two of them are already gone and out of the house five more to go i got i got the next one out this year he'll graduate high school i just wanted to turn out to be good adults get out there and do something great in the world and uh other than that man i'm happy to live my life take care of the animals and uh when i have the opportunity to speak up and speak out speak truth and encourage other people my voice is is always available to speak speak to what can and should be in this world and hopefully inspire others to to be brave it could be in cowards and to speak truth and step up for what what needs to happen in this world so we don't go completely off the deep end yeah good on you brother listen you're a great speaker very switched on and it's the kind of stuff that i believe in as well i believe there's a lot of people think that way but not a lot of people get the balls to speak out against it but very great speaker i've really enjoyed this conversation would you like to finish up on anything make or how can people get involved with the tiger king how can people show support for you watch our social media platforms watch our websites short yeah the the play the main thing people can go look at is joe exotics 2024.com uh they can go there all the resources are there but they can go to joe exotics 2024.com slash evidence because a lot of people are curious about why we are so adamant that joe is wrongfully convicted and so you can see everything there it's a great resource and then for me personally the best place i mean i'm on instagram and all the social media platforms and it's at spider monkey winston so they'll see the monkeys that i've talked about i see the work and then other things are connected there uh you know our nonprofit and that kind of stuff but the most important thing is to go check out joe exotics 2024.com and plug in and understand what's happening with joe would you like to finish up on anything else michael that's it james man i'm so grateful thanks for thanks for working us into a conversation and connecting with us and you're making me pain getting out of play and getting back to scotland for a busy before team warm brother yeah let me know if you're here and we're hoping to get to america soon as well so we'll try and get a catch up and um see what we can do if ever see the network but listen i really enjoyed this conversation very powerful keep doing what you're doing you've got you know where i'm at anyway so if you need anything mate you know we can help from outside of what we can do but listen god bless you michael and speak to you soon brother thanks dude big time cheers bro take care bro thank you bye buddy have a great day same to you mate bye