 Welcome everybody and hello, this is the webinar on coronavirus guidance and resources for Santa Cruz County businesses 3.0. My name is Andy Constable. I'm the economic development manager for the county of Santa Cruz and I'll be your host today. This is a third in a series of free webinars that is being presented by the county of Santa Cruz in conjunction with our business partners. With the intent of bringing the most current and update information that's available regarding the resources that are available to small businesses to help lessen the impact of the current pandemic. So the agenda for today is going to cover basically loan packages that are available. Under the CARES Act, which is the federal program. And so with me today and speaking will be myself. In addition to Brandon Napoli, who is the director of the Small Business Development Center. Lee Takakawa from the Cal Coastal. He is the president and Creedens Shaw, the senior vice president of Santa Cruz County Bank. And the difference here in terms of what we've done in the prior two webinars in the background listing in and that will be providing answers to your questions in the chat are a host of experts advisors that have been provided by the SBDC. And those people will also be available at the end of the webinar to answer questions when we get there. I just started I just want to remind everybody that this is a live webinar that is being broadcast on CTV's YouTube, the county's Facebook page, and on CTV's Comcast Channel 25 and Charter Channel 71, both of which will be available for replay. And then also we will have the slides from today available on the economic development website for the county, known as SCC vitality.org. For the program itself I wanted to highlight some available websites that I think are helpful to small businesses. The four that you see there that we had last time, I think are excellent choices, they are essentially for businesses that are currently open under the essential business category. And what they do is allow for people to not only get the hours of operations, but also what level of service they provide whether it be curbside or delivery services. But lastly I've put an arrow next to a new website called write out the wave that was created by an organization called Santa Cruz work so I'm going to give them a shout out. Essentially what this website does is it lists businesses and connects to their websites and allows for people to purchase gift cards in advance. And these are for businesses that are both open currently and also unfortunately closed, but it allows for people to help support those businesses through the purchase of those cards. But I think also I'd like to add that those cards could be used as gifts to the first line responders people like the truckers that are out there and everybody working in grocery stores, and of course doctors and nurses. So if you get an opportunity I encourage you to either load your business on that or recommend it to someone to actually go and visit and make a purchase. And then also before we get started, we've thrown in a disclaimer slide here and the reason for that is because the information that we're receiving, although we're attempting to bring you the most accurate and up to date is changing fairly regularly. It's because the Treasury is making adjustments to their programs. And we want to make sure that you understand that what we're bringing to you today is what we feel is not only the best and most accurate information we can, but it's also the most up to date, but it is subject, unfortunately to change. So be aware and watch for any kind of changes we will also try to bring you those changes as we move forward. So I'm going to jump into the. I think I skipped over slide so I apologize but I'm going to jump right into the program here. The CARES Act stands for Corona Aid Relief and Economic Security Act. I was signed into law on March 27, and it allocates 2.2 trillion, a number I never thought I'd use, for assistance to individuals, businesses and hospitals. Of that 2.2 trillion about 350 billion is dedicated to a program called paycheck protection program, and I'll be handling that. And the 2.2 billion is to expand the eligibility for the economic injury disaster loan program, which is something Brandon will be covering. There are other SBA programs that are out there, and I encourage you to check on the SBA website as well as contact the SBDC for information on these. The first two I mentioned to the left there, and then the other ones are SBAs express bridge loans and SBA debt relief. Moving into the payment protection program. It's administered by the SBA. It's 100% thoroughly guaranteed loan program that essentially is designed to retain employees so employers have the ability to keep their employees on. It covers near near term operating expenses that are between February 15 and June 30 of this year, and the eligibility is for basically for small businesses up to about 500 employees. But you'll note that I've put a link there which is live to the SBA's website, and it's called table of size standards my purpose in doing that is because it, it appears as if there may be some flexibility for companies over 500 employees, but you'll need to gauge that by going to the SBA's website and entering the information necessary to make that assessment. So the eligibility covers as I said small businesses but it also includes sole proprietors self employed individuals and it also includes gig workers such as lift or Uber drivers. Independent contractors are included as well as tribal businesses, veteran organizations but it's important to note that these businesses must have been in operation before February 15. And in this case had employees but if you're of course an independent contractor or self employed that wouldn't be applicable. The maximum size of the loan is up to $10 million and the way that's calculated is it's based on two times a month's payroll plus 25% and that's based on an average monthly payments during that period of time. The reason I highlight this is because it's been fluctuating information that we've seen between 2.5 or two and a half to this two times plus 25% and this information is being drawn directly from the Treasury Department. The use of the loan proceeds are based on using it for payroll as I said to salvage employees, as well as healthcare benefits, and also significant interest is it's for payments of interest on mortgage obligations that were incurred prior to February 15, as well as rent payments, utilities and interest on other debts, all also under contract prior to February 15. There are no borrower or lender fees. The term is now two years, I say now because that also is something that as of yesterday changed so it's a two year program. You don't have to make your first payment for six months from the time the loan is actually funded and the interest rate is now set at 1% previously it was a bit higher. There is no collateral for the loans, and the beauty of this program is that it is structured to be a grant, if you meet the criteria so there is loan forgiveness. And what that means is up to the principal balance of the loan, but not more than 25% of what can be forgiven is available for non payroll costs. It's also subject to reduction, if the workforce has been reduced or salaries have been reduced to employees, but there's no penalty for rehiring employees that were previously laid off as long as they're fully restored by June 30. So if you'd like more information because this is really a high level overview of that program. I encourage you to click on the link that I've provided there which is live for paycheck protection program. With that I will turn it over to Brandon Napoli to handle the balance of the programs. Great. Thanks Andy. So my name is Brandon Napoli. I'm the director of the Small Business Development Center here in Santa Cruz County, been around for about 35 years. I'm a fully funded by the City County of Santa Cruz Workforce Development Board, State of California and the SBA to provide advisory services to small businesses for free. As Andy mentioned several advisors are in the chat, and we'll be around to answer questions directly. Starting the Economic Injury Disaster Loan. There's been some updates on this loan. For instance, this loan now, the $10,000 advance for this loan is now calculated for $1,000 per employee, and this will be deducted from the PPP loan if you apply for that as well. This is the forgivable portion of the loan, but that is a recent update. It is also supposed to be used for now two months of working capital up to $15,000 on top of that 10K advance. So that was a recent update that came out this morning. In order to apply, you must be in operation since January of 2020. Again, meet the SBA side standards. You can be a sole prop, tribal business, cooperative, or employee-owned ESOP, and the use of proceeds must be in relation to an economic loss. There are no fees. The term of the loan now is still 30 years. There's no prepayment penalty. You should not be paying to package this loan. It should just be something you can go straight to the SBA's website and apply. It's very simple to get into the queue for your application. Payments will be deferred for the first 11 months. Interest rates 3.75% for for profits, 2.75% for nonprofits. Regarding collateral, there's none up to 25,000 in a loan request. And then after that, there may be collateral. Probably starting with business assets and ownership of 20% or more will potentially have to sign some type of limited guarantee. However, we've been told that there shouldn't be personal guarantees up to $200,000. Again, with the recent changes of working capital being reduced, it's going to be very subjective who gets up to that amount. Regarding other SBA programs, there are SBA express bridge loans. These are up to 25,000. We do have a list of SBA lenders on the Santa Cruz SBDC.org website. Check in with an SBA lender if you have a relationship. Or we can introduce you to one to see if any of them are offering the SBA express loan product. Additionally, there is SBA debt relief. If you currently have a 7A or 504 micro loan, you will not have to pay for a period of six months. That will be something that the SBA will take care of. And that includes new new loans as well. In addition to SBA products, one thing to note is there are some private grants that are coming out. One that came out this week was Facebook offering up to $10,000 in grants for small business. If you go to their website, make sure you go to facebook.com forward slash grants for business to learn more to see if you can qualify. Again, that's up to $10,000 in cash and potentially some Facebook ads as well. So at this point I want to bring on the president of Cal Coastal, a local CDFI here and talk about the California response with the California IBank and the micro loan program as well as the state disaster relief loan fund. Lee, can you hear us? Yes, hi Brandon, thank you. My name is Lee Takukawa, I'm the president of Cal Coastal and our organization was established back in 1981. We primarily serve the Coastal Central Coast area. We primarily serve Santa Cruz County, San Benito, Monterey, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, and Ventura, but some of our lending we can go all over the state. So we're busy making farm loans, we make small business loans, and we have local, state, and federal programs. Some of the programs we do, we do farm loans here and we go up to a million 750,000, we lend directly. These are many disadvantaged farmers where they don't own the land. They may be a tenant farmer. We've been doing this for years and we get a USDA Farm Service Agency guarantee for those. We also are an SBA 504 lender for real estate and equipment. We have what you call a CDC certified development corporation, we do those as well, up to five and a half million. We're also an SBA 7A lender with the Community Advantage Program, where we make direct loans up to 250,000, and we get SBAs guaranteed to do that. And we're also involved with Department of Agricultural Loans where we go into rural communities and do small business loans up to 250,000. Small, rural, mean, meaning 50,000 and less generally. And then we do do SBA microloans as well. We've been doing that many years and those are 50,000 and less to businesses. But recently, you might have heard in the media that Governor Newsom recently announced on April 2nd additional funding going into a disaster relief loan guarantee program. And we are one of the seven financial development corporations that contract with iBank to deliver that product. We normally do loan guarantees up to a million for small businesses and for disaster loans, but this was an additional 50 million that enables us to work with lenders to guarantee up to $50,000 microloans. The highest that the lender can price the loans under these microloans is Prime Plus One. So it is capped. They are not allowed to go above Prime Plus One or they're not allowed to make loans under this particular program. We work very closely with community banks. Even Santa Cruz County Bank, we have a representative from their bank speaking a little later. We're going to be very busy. Cal Coastal is going to be processing these disaster relief loans with the lenders, and we're going to go statewide with this there's a couple of our sister corporations down in Southern California, that are going to be working on huge numbers of loan requests. And we don't have as many loans coming through our area so we're going to jump in and support them. My board of directors has supported our mission and to get these loans done quickly. They've given me some delegated authority on these 50,000 and less loans so we can expedite our approvals to the lender. There is up to a 95% loan guarantee to the lender. We have very little risk because right now lenders are going to struggle to make small business loans because of the situation, but the way we're going to structure these is with some deferment period so that you don't make loan payments right away and these loans are really going to be nicely structured where they're a fairly low interest rate. They're fairly quick. You work with your lender and these, by the way these can be for agricultural loans farmers, or small businesses and you don't need to be in a rural area or anything like that. You really just need a lender to be able to make that loan. What's very interesting under this program, the recently announced 50 million that the governor put in, is iBank is opening up this product, not just to banks and credit unions, but also what we call community development and financial institutions. CDFI is actually CalCosal is one of those. It's a designation by the Department of Treasury that only certain select non-bank lenders can get that and we're really community-based social impact investors that get our capital from various sources. They could be donors. They could be low interest rate loans and then we lend those out to small businesses and farms. We have three big CDFIs that iBank has approved that are going to run through huge amounts of disaster loans. They have about 25 million dollars from Axion, another 25 million from Opportunity Fund, and then CDC Small Business Finance in San Diego has about 5 million in capital to lend. So right there we have three CDFIs that could nearly lend up the whole disaster fund, but the 50 million that the governor put in, we leverage two to one. So we're actually going to be able to have 100 million in financing available for the state of California. So we're going to be working with the CDFIs. We can also work with banks that make up to a million dollar loan. They can get up to a 95% guarantee and it's going to be a very active program. Now this program is for when a business is not eligible for the IDOL, SBA IDOL, Economic Injury Disaster Loan, or PPP. So this is an alternative. If you get declined where you're not eligible, that's one of the criteria for this iBank disaster loan. You have to be able to demonstrate you are not eligible for the SBA PPP or the IDOL, and then we'll look at putting you under this particular program. Right now we're getting 75 to 100 inquiries a day. We're very busy right now and then trying to process as much as possible. We have very limited staff, so what we will ask you to do if you're interested is you're going to have to contact our main line. It's 831-424-1099. 831-424-1099, or you can visit our website at www.calcoastal.org. And again, Brandon Appley and his SBDC, we're very involved with them so he can provide you our contact information. On our website we have a pre-qualification link. We also have a link to our application. So if you're interested in any of our programs, what you all you have to do is go to our website, click on the pre-qualification link, type in what your business needs or farm needs are, and then a staff person will contact you to see what type of program we can put you under. So one thing I did want to announce today as I was a little concerned because we do have a lot, you know, our areas heavily dependent on agriculture. We have very little assistance to growers right now, and although they're exempt from shelter and place orders, agriculture could get hurt through this as well as all of you small businesses which are the backbone of our economy. We did need to shore that up the loans to the agricultural producers. So I was able to get one CDFI in our area called California Farm Link from Aptos. We just got them approved this morning as a lender for this disaster program. So if any of you have farms and you need some financing, contact California Farm Link in Aptos. I don't have the number right here in front of me, but oh I do. It's 831-425-0303. And by the way, California Farm Link will do an emergency microloan as well at 20,000 or less, 0% six months deferment period with a two year term. So this is a good CDFI farm lender in our area that we were able to bring into the program. And we hope to work with Credence Bank as well. He'll be next on. And I hope that we can all make this through together. And once this crisis is over, get our economy back to normal. So please call us if we can help. And again, please sign up for the SBDC assistance because they're key to providing you the technical assistance during this time. Thank you. Thank you. They really appreciate it. Before we move on, I just wanted to highlight the one sales tax deferral that's listed on that. We've listed it on the page as being a California resource. But unfortunately, there's very little information. So I would encourage anyone that's interested in taking advantage of that sales tax deferral to go to the state of California's website, gobiz.com. And there's more information that can be found there about that program. So at this point, I'd like to move on to another one of our guest speakers, which is. There we go. Credence Shaw, who is the Senior Vice President and Chief Credit Officer for Santa Cruz County Bank. Credence, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Thank you. Thanks a lot for joining us. So, Credence, I think what I'd like to do is I've put up some Q&A questions on the screen here. But these are really not any particular order nor are there any particular importance, but what we've kind of accumulated here is some questions that have risen up through various other webinars and in conversations with people. I think the first of which is, can you give us some kind of insight into the application process for these loans? And with that, are there any special or unique requirements? Yeah, so I think if any, you know, a lot of small businesses have applied through the SBA before and have kind of gone through those processes and seen how many forms and applications and kind of things that they need. This program is completely different. It really is one form, that's your application, along with proof of your payroll. And so that can be your IRS forms or other things that kind of make sense. The application process is going to be a little bit different at each bank. The one that we have in place, we basically developed over a weekend, so we're still working out all the bugs. But you go online, you fill out our form and then that form auto-populates the application for you. Then once we get the application, we kind of take that and then we have to go out to SBA and kind of get it approved. And then kind of over the next, I think, you know, hopefully when it all starts going smooth few days, we have loan docs and we sign. So it should be kind of one of the easier programs once we get it all open running. The big question mark here so far has been, and you kind of alluded to it, the changing expectations from SBA. And so, you know, they already had us roll out the program. And then as you saw just, you know, a couple of days ago, they changed the way we need to do it. And so we're doing our best to kind of stay up with those changes as they happen and hope that, you know, SBA kind of is understanding as we go forward. But I think as a community bank, we saw that our community really had a need for this. And so we decided just to take the bold move of charging forward and helping our community and kind of dealing with, you know, those issues later. Awesome. So I think you answered part of the next question. So one of the concerns, of course, is how much time is involved between when a person makes application when they hear back from the lender. And then I guess the second part of the question is, what can they anticipate before they actually see funds. Yeah, and so right now, as I said, we, we were kind of building something from the ground up here. It wasn't really, we didn't get much guidance in the early days on how we were going to do this or how what they expected. And so as a bank, we've literally built a whole back end around processing for this over the last couple weeks. And so, while it has been a couple weeks, we've had some people apply, you know, 10 days ago and we haven't got the money yet. I think when the process is moving, which I expect to be by the end of next week, early the week after, we should be able to get back to people in a couple few days, maybe three or four days all together and have money in our account. Awesome. Awesome. And then also, as far as Santa Cruz County bank itself, are there any other kind of unique programs that you could offer outside of these SBA based programs. So there is the, you know, the customers that have SBA 7A loans with us, they already are having their payments made by SBA. So starting in April, they're not going to have to make any payments for six months. SBA is going to make those for them, which is the full P and I. So that's, that's a really good benefit. We've also been looking at every, every business that we have and every loan that we have and offering deferrals to people that need them. And so, on a lot of our business loans, you know, maybe it's the landlord and the tenants say they can't pay rent. We want to make it easier for that landlord to say, you know, I don't need to pay long payment for a few months and so you don't need to make your rent payment for a few months. So we've been giving a lot of deferments to owners of property so that they can pass it on to their customers and we think that's just part of something we need to do as community. Awesome. I guess, and lastly, you know, we're all kind of unique in terms of having challenges but what do you see as far as going forward or are there any special challenges that that you see that are kind of outside of what the norm. I think for us, our biggest challenge was we went from, you know, a bank that we had offices and we have relationship managers and we do this real high touch kind of where we're available all the time we meet people's needs wherever they are to something where all of a sudden we can't go and meet a coffee shop and you know we can't go to that meeting and kind of talk with you. And at the same time, we had to figure out how to basically overnight develop an online lending system to kind of meet the needs and that's really been I think our biggest challenge and it's really exciting seeing how everyone in our organization is just rising to the challenge and working really hard and nights and weekends and, you know, we're all really excited to be able to help our community in a way that's going to make a real changeable difference. Awesome. Thank you. So I think what I'd like to do now is what we talked about in the beginning which is we'll get to our question period so we're going to open up the chat here so that we can see what kind of questions have been throwing in this minute here to kind of readjust but I'm going to be asking kind of the entire panel if they can to help me out with these. Let me see. Looks like this one. A client of mine is a sole prop with the three contractors does my client, the sole prop apply for herself and her three contractors, or does she apply only for herself and the three contracts also apply themselves separately. Brandon or Chris. Yeah, I can take that one. That's an area where the ball is still moving. And so the sole prop is going to apply by yourself and the 1099 they're going to apply by themselves because they're considered contract employees. The guidance on that was supposed to come out today as far as how we were supposed to handle those, and it hasn't yet and that kind of been this whole process as they'll say, it's going to come out on this day and then I get notification of it at 11 o'clock at night that it's been done so I think that's a good question and it's something we don't have good answers for yet and I'm hoping over the next few days we will. Thank you. Another question so it says I own a small family daycare I was hoping to apply for a PPP today. I went to the SBA website to find participating lenders all lenders I call today said they cannot help me. If I'm not a member, my own banks said they couldn't help me because I don't have a business account. Gosh is that this again it sounds like something credence you want to address. Yeah, I wish one of the things that I wish the rest of the banking community was taking the attack that we are on this where we know our community needs this help and we know we need that assistance and so we're just charging into it, you know, full steam ahead to make sure our small businesses are supported, but not every bank is doing that and so we're doing what we can to reach out to non customers and kind of take care of our community but I don't know really what the answer is there yet I don't think a lot of the other banks have kind of stepped up in the same way and I think they're going to figure it out. I think we were lucky that we got going early. And I see a couple of them coming online so I think my message on it is really hang tight. You know do your best and kind of wait for your bank to get on board with what the program is I think more and more are going to every day. So I want to add to that there are some online lenders and I I'm very cautious to which ones I've even mentioned there's just only really to industry is one that's when the L E N D. You are why.com that seems to be taking applications and also funding circle. Again, I would double check and sure that you're not paying any additional fees. But I've heard from other rebel sources about those other organizations I think they might just be pairing with other banks but that is also an option. A couple of questions that have come up about Wells Fargo's situation. This particular one has to do with the person making application to Wells Fargo and being denied. Anybody want to tackle that one. And I would, I think this situation continues to change I've heard Wells Fargo is potentially coming back if they haven't already accepted additional applications. I think there's a lot of banks that are waiting to get in the water. When they feel a little more comfortable around how the forgiveness of this is going to work and ensure that they're in compliance. We do have a list again on our website Santa Cruz SPDC dot org of all the other SBA lenders in the county and a list of those that are offering PPP. Again, you may not be the first in line with that bank but it's good to reach out and see. And again, industry or funding circle at this point or two other online lenders that are taking PPP applications. I'll add to that something I just read recently. I understand that the Fed is looking at increasing funding available to Wells Fargo so I guess if you're a Wells Fargo customer and you want to continue to use them. I would again say what credence suggested which is hanging there looks like there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. I looked at there's three questions here that are all directed towards the I bank. The first is what would be the interest rate for an I bank loan. What if you're eligible for an EIDL loan, but 15,000 is far below what you need to stay afloat. Can you apply for an I bank loan. And lastly, for I bank loans what is what if you're eligible but the Fed just ran out of money. Okay, I, this is Lee talking Cal take those of course. So with the interest rate on the I bank disaster loans, the interest rate will be set by the bank if it's 50 above $50,000 up to $1 million. The bank has a discretion to set the interest rate you negotiate directly with them. If they price it at prime plus one or less, that'd be 4.25% today or less, the bank would get a 95% guarantee between prime plus one to prime plus two. They could get a 90% guarantee and at the bank prices of to prime plus 2% they only get an 85% guarantee so this program gives them incentive to lower the interest rate to the borrower. For the 50,000 unless microloans, the cap is prime plus one. They cannot participate with the microloan program, unless they price it at prime plus one. We do have a lender down in San Diego called action big CDFI. They're going to put in 25 to 30 million just for the San Diego area. Believe it or not they're going to lend at 1%. So we're excited to guarantee those loans because it's going to deliver cheap cost of capital to those businesses. Unfortunately, we don't have a lender like that in this area. But the one big CDFI that's going to service your area all over the state would be the opportunity fund. I believe the closest one might be in Bay Area. But if you just Google search for opportunity fund get a contact and talk to them about signing up for this particular program because you know it's going to be prime plus one or less and they automatically get a 95% guarantee. Now one of the criteria for this loan is that you must not be eligible for PPP or idle. So just if you are eligible but they ran out of money, you're still not eligible for iBank. Know that the house I believe is working on a forced stimulus bill. From what we've heard is they're going to double down on PPP and idle make more funding available because they know it's going to run out quick. Brandon, I think you might have cited how quickly the loan is going or how much is available. They're probably over what 130, 150 billion already in this short amount of time. So Congress and the president know that our money needs to go into there and they're working on it and from what I've heard it's going to take several weeks to shore that up but they're looking at doing that in a fourth bill. So hang in there. If you don't get it the first round, your application is in. If you have your number when you applied, keep that because I think you're still in the system and you're still in line. But for the iBank, you must not be eligible for idle or PPP. If you just need a little bit of money, that's what our program is designed for, 50,000 less but we've got to find a lender that wants to make the loan. That's the real hurdle for all of you is that we can't make the loan directly unless you guys get it's kind of like going to the PPP finding a lender. It's going to be a little difficult because most banks don't want to make small loans and we're trying to give them the incentive to do that to take the risk now and we were guaranteed and standing by to do those loans. And there's going to be a pretty straight streamlined process on these microloans. So it's not going to be your normal turnaround time where you're taking a couple months to get your money. We're not designing it that way. We're trying to act within weeks, maybe a week or two. It really depends on how quickly the bank can approve it, get it to us and we're going to move on it. Perfect. So, a couple questions on the PPP loan program. Our details within forgiveness within the loan docs and also self employed proprietor. How do they apply for the appropriate payroll amount credence. Can you handle that one? Or those two I should. Yeah. Let's take the sole proprietor one and that one is the type of one for me to answer right now because I know that there's a lot of need there but we just don't know what the answer is yet. SBA was supposed to get us the information today for the Treasury and we just don't have it yet. And so we're checking that, you know, I check it almost hourly because I know that's a need that needs to be met. And as soon as we know, we're going to roll that out. As far as the forgivable portion of the debt and the loan docs, one of the things we're doing in our loan docs is we're going to do a one page item at the end of it that has all the calculations in it. And so it's going to say here's how we calculate your loan amount and kind of shows all the wages and then it's also going to say here's all the ways you can get it forgiven. And then they're going to be able to input on the side that forgive this amount because for us to if we can get all these loan forgiven I can get off my books and then wind it out to someone else. So we want to make sure we help everyone understand that as best we can, going into it so that there's no confusion down the road but that's going to be part of our loan docs and we're developing it right now. Following on that same thought question here says order to qualify for a PPP. Do you have to be currently paying payroll and not to have furloughed employees. So there's provisions in there for rehiring your employees. So there's an eight week period after the loan is done. So we do the loan and then over the next eight weeks you have to show your expenses towards payroll, rent, utilities, other other items. 75% of that has to be towards payroll. And so if you rehire all your employees to get it forgiven you're going to have to hire them all back. I'm sorry, you put all your employees and have to hire them all back to meet that 75%. But there's also another provision in there where they were talking about reducing the amount that is available for forgiveness that they haven't been really clear on what it's going to look like. And so they had some formulas in there as far as if you have 31 employees and now you have 24, then so much percentage going to be forgiven. I'm starting to think that they're going to move away from that and just say, if you can get your expenses done in that period and you hire enough staff and you do some kind of basic things, it should be forgiven. I want that to be during our loan docs before we go out to start with on the same page. I think there's a lot of concern about that forgiveness. I think there's very little information within the program descriptions. There are numerous questions I'm seeing here that ask the same thing over and over again which is, you know, is there other places, or perhaps even the application that kind of details that forgiveness. Sounds like you just touched on that but any other ideas in terms of, and maybe Brandon can touch on this too. Is there any place through the SBA website that might detail or the Treasury's description. What are the details about forgiveness in terms of, you know, what is really breaking it down in terms of what it's going to take to get that that loan forgiven. Well, I think one best practices and I saw a question on the board, ensuring that you set up a separate banking account for all the expenses in regards to either one of these products, but specifically the PPP loan, making your life a lot easier in the bankers like a lot easier on the back end of just keeping that completely organized and separate from any other transactions you have in your business is really going to help to increase the likelihood that the forgiveness will happen and very quickly. So, that's kind of the gist of the bulk of the questions that we've been looking at there are several that are up here and again, we promise that what we'll do is capture everything that has been posted on our chat, and we will get answers to those questions and then Brandon's will post those on the SPD sees website. Once we have those solved and again, the broadcast is available for replay, it'll be through CTV's channels 25 and 71. Also, we will post the slides that are of today's presentation on the economic development website for the county which is scc vitality.org. And with that I want to thank the panelists for your help I really appreciate your participation. And also I want to thank for, thank everyone that actually participated in this program. We will continue to bring you, as I said, as updated and as current information as we possibly can. We really hope everyone out there is doing well, and we look forward to some type of recovery in the near future that is equal to or perhaps even better than where we're at. And I think the only way we can do that is continuing the conversation so we wish you the best. And with that I say thank you and goodbye.