 Live from San Francisco, California, it's the Cube at VMworld 2014 brought to you by VMware, Cisco, EMC, HP, and Nutanix. Now here are your hosts Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. We're back, welcome to San Francisco everybody we're here in Moscone South as you walk in the lobby check out the right hand side the Cube is here VMware has done a fantastic job they do every year really setting us up it's a really a lot of action going on we're going to do an analyst segment right now I'm joined by my co-host here Stu Miniman and David Floyer you're in the hot seat so thanks very much for coming on the Cube. Thank you Stu before we get into Floyer's piece we're going to talk a little bit about orchestration every year we've done a lot of research around VMware and VMworld in particular we're going to get into that sort of what's next beyond just the hypervisor but Stu before we do can you run down some of the news we heard about this thing called EVO today and it's essentially converged infrastructure a lot of questions is is VMware getting into the hardware business what is this all about are they going after Nutanix and sublivity break it down for us what was announced and what does it mean sure Dave so this is an extension of VMware's vSAN product line of course that that's been out for a while now they had before what was known as a ready node which was really a reference architecture working with some of the big server guys and this new piece is called EVO rail EVO colon RAIL I'm not sure how they came up with the name EVO stands for evolutionary I think you know as you know I think VMware which really helped you know revolutionize a lot in the data center rail rail is showing there basically you're going to start building a hybrid converged thing by having rails and their second piece is actually they're going to come out with EVO rack later which is going to be the cloud version on it so you think you you know rails like means small Ruby on rails or no different no no it's really it's I've got four servers and I'm going to put it into a box and you know so I'm going to use rails to do that we're talking to Sam it's definitely not a DevOps type Ruby on rail so no no HP no Cisco in this yeah so so wait it really interesting to see it is not a reference architecture really is an OEM solution VMware's not getting into the hardware business they are partnering with an interesting mix so you've got you know super micro who does a lot of you know these type of configurations but then you've got Dell there you've got EMC who most people don't think of as a server player but of course they've sold you know lots and lots of appliances for many year and will layer other services from their storage portfolio on top of that and there's a couple of Asian you know suppliers in there not the ODMs Dave but you know small guys that you know are used to putting together kind of these custom configurations and we touched on the Docker announcement at the top of the production here and the open stack as well David I want to bring you in the discussion you said okay I like what they're going but what's the but on open stack in particular you said well I'd like to see VMware be even more inclusive yes the the the fundamental journey to the VMware announced really clearly today is that it is a it's a hybrid cloud and it has to be for many reasons but the the key is to be able to cover all workloads all types of workload and cover it at a cost that's commensurate with the type of workloads that you're going to do so you really want to be able to use open stack when it's the cheapest you want to be if you want to use VMware for the very high end stuff that's great as well but you really want to have an open environment where you can use AWS you can use open stack you can use Azure as part of a hybrid cloud not just the mware okay let's shift gears here David when you and I attended one of my earlier VM worlds back in sort of the mid to late 2000s let's say let's bring it up to like 2008 2009 you said to me at the time wow storage is really a mess in this world and then so subsequent to that you know sort of catalyst and everybody knew it everybody was complaining about it VMware came up with this sort of set of API's the VA AI and Vasa and the whole ecosystem sort of scrambled to integrate and we've done a study we at Wikibon talking to the Wikibon practitioner community trying to understand how important integration is understanding the integration points and then helping people understand who was actually doing that type of integration we've seen now Oracle actually Oracle storage hop on the the VA AI and Vasa bandwagon so now you know it's time to sort of move on to the next wave right so because it's now mainstream so what is that next way but you're not you know not updating that piece of it you've moved on and now looking into a new area specifically around orchestration so so why and what are you finding so yeah well why do we do it because the key is this hybrid cloud and in order to get there to that environment you need orchestration you need automation of your fundamental can provisioning and getting rid of all the junk work that is done in the data centers and in order to do that you need to be providing the capabilities from top to bottom including storage of just reducing the cost all of the overall cost of that and what we've been looking at is what are the platforms that are in there providing that hybrid hybrid cloud and how in particular is storage going to deal with the these environments we storage is the most difficult thing of all and and VMware have come out with a with V vols they come out with the V sand very recently and now with V vols which is starting to try and make storage connect directly to the VMs and not with the lungs and so instead of a abstraction level of lungs or volumes it's now the level at VM so you're talking about a wider sphere of capability in terms of storage services you don't have to narrow it down to a volume or you directly connected to a VM and an application can be an invent in the VM and obviously what you want to do is also directly connected to a set of VMs an application running across a set and you can invoke storage services or any services that's the whole point yeah you want to a lot easier to provision is really the bottom line what is not even a lot not only a lot easier to manage them but you can you can give that particular VM the precise set of services for that so it's a quality of service granularity okay alright so now so talk about what you're what you did you've so you've developed a framework working with the folks in the Wikibon community which is a community of 20,000 IT practitioners to develop this framework to sort of evaluate a maturity model essentially of where we're at with orchestration right with orchestration and the journey to the part into the hybrid cloud okay so so the orchestration piece is all about efficiency doing more with less automation orchestration and hybrid cloud is sort of sort of testing all the marketing message that's right where are we so what do you find so on slide one in the piece on the Wikibon site we're talking about the journey to the hybrid cloud and how far are enterprises along it and in the chart goodness is to the right and if you look at it it's only virtualized servers which are far to the right everything else is really not that far along shocking VM VMware is good at servers that's right if you look at slide two what we're looking at is what is the fundamental technology I've chosen VMware is this as the reference architecture here because they are the most advanced in this area what areas are to the right and the things that are not yet on the right-hand side are things like virtualized storage and virtualized networks they've done a lot of announcements with V vols as we discussed before and with VSAN to improve though that virtualized storage obviously flash itself helps so some of the flash things they've done also improves that but those two things need to be improved and the implementation of virtualized networks with NSX needs to be improved in order to be able to get the final VM tech VMware technologies there once you've got those in slide three then you're looking at storage as a service storage that you can apply to a fully automated storage provisioning and scaling and provide provide it for all of the parts of storage block for file for for for object for big data so the ones that are low on this chart are the APIs for other platforms AWS for example big data the HDFS again those are sort of applications where you want to be able to connect to that on a much lower cost basis public clouds and open stack so those are the things that storage as a service is lacking those things that are going to be put right there's some of it so is this the new sort of quote-unquote battleground that we're going to see where people going to have to spend engineering dollars over the next three four or five years a and B what does it mean for customers so yes in order to get to that hybrid cloud those things have to be addressed and at the moment they're not there for example on on a service management services consistency groups is something that really is not very good inside the VMware and other people can do a much better job so consisting groups getting these snapshots working other people like me so you're talking to other people well for example I can tip you have a very third party other competitors of that sort okay who can provide consistency at the application consistency as opposed to crash okay so what does this mean for the customer the customer has to just sit back and wait for the vendor community to do all this integration or can they take other action what what would you advise customers in regard to this framework well the first thing is that I think the journey to the hybrid cloud is the only solution alternatives of going just to the public cloud on its own I think are very few people will be able to do that why not just outsource the whole lot the CEO say come on it's so much easier we want to be in the yeah 85% of what we do is not differentiated just give it Amazon why not give it all to Amazon the reason is that there are two groups of applications within your organization there is a small group of very high value applications which need to run really well and then there's the other big group of applications which are just supporting that and to be a route source that big group will be make sense if you could and and you could get the performance between the two halves but when you look at the economies of scale of those important applications they don't outsource very well okay all right so you said I asked her about I cut you off on advice the customers that will end there you said you got to get to the hybrid cloud yes because that and because that's a function of protecting your core assets the family jewels and lowering your cost for what she had saccach calls the crapplications right okay that is exactly right that's really what it's all about that's all that's what it's all about so she would would you should you start on this journey should you wait until this thing is baked out what you should start on the journey because the key reason you should start now is that when you look at the where the value is going to come to an organization a small amount will go to it it'll certainly make it cheaper but the real value is being able to get applications in faster new updates in faster it's the value of the applications to the end user all right so where do I start so you start I believe you start with getting the business on board with improving it and improving their ability to take advantage of it make it a business led venture to get to that hybrid cloud and start now on the pieces that you can do start getting the orchestration in start getting the automation in and start making the applications much better for the for the company as a whole so it's the old alignment story here is 2014 we're still talking about alignment all right thank you David very much I really appreciate that framework so I think you're going to be extending this over the next several weeks and months and dig it into what different vendors have and so forth so appreciate it Stu thanks for coming on keep it right there everybody we'll be back live from Moscone this is VMworld 2014 and this is the queue