 That day cool don't cook that man Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is my one and only co-host Tim. What's up, Tim? How you doing? So we can see it there if I hover over see it clearly says Tim right here. Everybody can see that You're slightly off-screen. Hold on. I'm gonna fix it. There we go Tim there we go. Now it's now it's fixed Amazing. Yeah here to help Joining us again, they're back on the show and we couldn't be more excited the party at the all-point gang Tristan, Dane, Ludd Gentlemen, how you doing? Loving life a quarter mile at a time because I know what miles are Yeah, just really happy to be here advance. Tim, it's great to meet you. Yeah, it's like me and Tristan There you go. It's just nice. It's just nice. You know flex a little it's getting around. Absolutely Well by the way, I want everybody to in the show if you're watching this in the future Or if you're watching this right now Please tell Dayton that his headphones are cute and adorable and he has nothing to be ashamed of for them That's right. There you go So at any rate, we're gonna be talking about what we should keep we're gonna play a fun game tonight Keep change kill as in what we should keep in a OS what should change in a OS and what should be killed From a OS forever. So that's gonna be our fun game. We play as a group. But of course first the news Ruber engine yeah Okay I mean probably yes, they are definitely not painted with metallic paints. Those are definitely Yeah, you would you would see the pigments if you would actually see the metal flex if this was GW paint Yeah, of course. Okay. Yeah, that's a drink. That's my metal flex. There you go Is everyone else playing the Warhammer weekly drinking game? Yeah, if people did that they would die I don't want to kill. I yeah, there's too many things we say too often The I mean, okay Tristan, would you like to do your joke? Okay, well, I'm gonna say it if you don't say it so you got to say it I'm putting you over a barrel here Day Tristan take a barrel do it now. Listen, you can't threaten me with a good time It's on what it is There you go. Yes his joke was it looks like a bunch of the GW mold line scrapers which it really does just like somebody's A fan of GW mold line scrapers, you know what that's actually you know what that's exactly what it is So what this actually is is this is one of the holiday Christmas models Yep, and it's one of the like spoofy ones and the entire model is them made out of like objects GW stuff and so and I'll let you take a guess where that miniature handle is Well, I'm gonna guess like like Gromberg so it's so it's it's Gromberendell, right the white dwarf and he's wearing a headdress of Mold line scrapers. He has a Like Citadel paintbrush in his hand Yeah, I assume his offhand weapon is that long stick with the teeth that you as the rubber bands That you're supposed to use to prime things. That's completely insane It looks like one of the old Seraphon weapons or Amazon weapons Yeah, definitely is a kilt that's made out of pin vices. Yeah, sure Absolutely, just all of the GW tools or it's a Birdman of Catrassa or it's a Necromunda figure or I don't care It's one of those three things though for sure It's a bunch of ducks all going backwards like folding back. I like it Can we acknowledge that's like two hundred and eighty dollars worth of mold line remover Right now Canadian Canadian Yeah, give or take that's before you have HST out there in the East Coast, right 15 percent correct there bud I did that was sent on tap. Yeah ours is only a 12 percent sales tax So it would be a little less I did not calculate the taxes. This was all before taxes These are not great services. Those are goods and services. There you go. That's right Yes, I the definitely the thing I don't want to get into is Canadian tax the bane of my normal daily existence And so I prefer not to have to deal with your ridiculous tax system in my fun job as well. So here we go I'll go next because I'm just gonna volunteer myself seeing as Tristan volunteered about how we're all doing and Was the only one who said Great thanks So one of the things I thought of when I first saw it was the the cypher lords leader from the war cry Okay, it's got that fan sure kind of sorda kind of sorda looks like that Otherwise it looks pretty add mecky to me So 40k drink yay yay add meck So what we know is it could be any 40k thing a Necromunda thing an old-world thing a headdress on any random figure the holiday figure Any other random guesses people would like to throw out can we somehow get Lord of the Rings in here? IDK lionfish Multiple people in the chat have said looks like lionfish. Yes, okay Old-world pub where they're playing darts and everyone is hit a very particular spot sure sure Good all right, let's move on because I hate this rumour engine it makes me angry It's so amazing we have a new book dropping. That's right. That's right book zinch zinch Notably a book not dropping at the same time. I mean, it's fine My first single my first single is dropping is dropping. So we have the zinch Vanguard going up the zinch book zinch dice actual like legible zinch dice a New twist a new wacky thing GW is trying out. So stop it go back to insane dice that are never useful and can't be rolled That's what what are you doing to us here to be fair, but had a moment I did I saw those I saw those dice and it was like Jesus Mary and Martha. These are amazing It's the first time I've ever wanted to buy GW dice was when I saw these The original new ones the new ones the ones they they they post them that they just put up last weekend or whatever The only thing that would make him better is if you had a button that could change the ones to whatever number you wanted whenever you roll Oh Canadian dice those would be true change that dice of change Yes, these are the one dice that I've bought with GW and I don't know to me. This is perfection right there Exactly, we've never we've reached the I mean if there's any reason that says why they went to functional dice It's because of those luminous dice like they reached the mountain top There's just nowhere else to go, you know, you've Alexander wept for there were no more worlds to conquer. That's it. You did it. You got there Yeah, these dice don't change color in my hand the more it heats up, but I'm gonna be sorely disappointed. Oh my gosh Be amazing if they went green No, they should be blue and then they turn pink because you know pink fire I like all the fire and you know that kind of thing zinge All speaking to me So this is the vanguard box. This will be around a hundred bucks us the magister on disc ten Xanny's Ten of these acolytes that we're still trying to make a thing We'll see how they turn out in the new book the fetch if there ever was of Age of Sigmar and then three screamers and three flamers. So okay, it's fine. It's a nice box Everyone's gonna be like I got three flamers. Does anybody want some Zangor's acolytes and screamers? Hey screamers are cool like three flamers three screamers and then a bunch of dudes for reasons I can't figure out This would be a near perfect box if you have like three disc guys instead of the acolytes Like looking at this I'd be like I'll trade that box. Oh sure if you had like three three Zangor Disc riders guys of whatever. Yeah, sure How else are you gonna move those scopes like come on? Yeah, they're not leaning into the theme It needs to be a mystery box every time you open it. It's a different model. There you go Blind box vanguard Do you remember the battle box from like three or four years ago that had like 20 acolytes 20 Zangor's But then it had a lord of change lord of change yet six enlightened I'm in a Zangor shaman Yeah, but if you want that I can pick that up for you next week. Oh awesome. I can't pay for it But you can definitely pick it up for me Christmas is around the corner. It's a good bad. It was a good battle box. Some of those battle boxes were Legitimately great. Yeah Yeah, okay, but this is good fine perfectly reasonable start So we'll see how the zinge books looks out zinge review coming next week. So tune in for that So sons of bachmont giant do we want to talk about that? Sure. Here he is I mean, here's the thing we need like I have the image up of his club. Sure his men here club And Tristan you seem very excited about this guy his putting down monsters club Well, I suppose I mean, that's what it says narratively You like the gamble vent. You know, you do. Yeah, I very good. Yes. There we go to tomb Tomb king bone giant or as it were not really bone. Yes No, yeah, but it is kind of the natural extension of the old rule that was for the necro swings Yeah And which was the roll two sixes Getting like get a decapitating strike of 10 mortal wounds. This is kind of like that. So I'm in All right, so Interesting good things about this we get another basically giant added into the mix. This is the the not clearly. This is the non Special or unique build of the new king brood box, right? Which will have the upgrade sprue. So that's how the Fake eyeball I really hate it. I don't care. I love it. It's fine. I'm just saying Then make an eye patch. Make a green a green stuff eye patch All of my all of my mega's wear masks. So I don't I don't care. It's fine. There's probably some good videos You could watch to do that too, Vince. Indeed. I'm yeah, I know again I'm I'm okay. If you like it. I'm not I'm not yucking your yum. I'm just saying I hate it personally And he has like he's eating the arm like I just love it like it's a great like death giant Like can you imagine it painted up like a zombie? Sure. You could easily I could I could see that certainly Okay, I love the green berries So Yeah, I mean who doesn't really uh The This club. This is the monster slayer guy, right? So this is your this is your beast slayer mega gargant or whatever Okay three attacks on threes twos rend TBD Right, but it clearly degrades Five probably starts at a four Well, I don't know that's that's swinging high most giant stuff most of the killer giant stuff starts at three So I think it's it's fair to assume it is at least a three Okay inflation inflation's like 10 right now. It's a good point. Maybe maybe the rend is inflated up. Yeah I will point out that the average damage this guy does to a monster if it has like a four up save Is 8.3 with his normal attacks now. That's a lie. That's lying with math because what he actually does is Uh either five or 10 damage Tilted slightly towards uh, it's slightly towards 10, right? That's that's how the math is working there. Sure um It's like 60 40 ish percent chance attacking a monster with a four up save If you go for the single big strike 15 I That is true. That is that that is a mathematical possibility. Yes, that's actual It's not the 18 derp you can do but sure. Why not? Um, I understand that the little tree guy with his special sword has higher damage still, but but at least it's not damage too So yeah small victories. You're okay The single attack thing I've been arguing for forever like having a different mode Right where you could just take one big swing Boy, did they go all the way that direction? Like I was arguing for like 10 attacks at two damage or two attacks at like, you know, eight damage But no they went just like whoop Snuck it all the way down there the average damage on the club strike assuming you all out attack him which would be like Completely insane not to do. Why would you ever swing that without an all out attack? uh is again 12.3, but that's again lying with math. It's not actually like this is a little more swingy because it's 5 d6 The depends on the rent Like the rent is the real question here. Absolutely. I'm assuming rent three for all these calculations, by the way. Yeah the Challenge is that's not real. What you actually do is like zero or 17 That's the real numbers Right. It is the timmiest timmy thing that's ever timmy to timmy. I know Attacks on twos and twos Do zero damage like I know that for a fact one attack on on twos and twos zero damage every time You're correct Garrett. That's I'm saying like the average is lying with math, right? So like your actual you stand on twos and twos against a like Two up armor save you stand a pretty decent chance like a Uh, I ran all these numbers and I don't remember off the top of my head. I'm sorry You stand. I think it's like a 40 chance of doing zero damage Maybe higher. Oh, yeah totally uh And You know, but yes, it's like what you're actually going to do is like nothing or something between like breathing Well something in between like 14 and 20 Really, or you like one shot us fakes I mean you won't is the word safe, but sure So it's it's okay damage. It's fine It's you'll kill a cock for sure. Yeah, you'll take that cockatrice right out take that Uh, so at any rate, that's him. He's cool. Cool model. I like more options in the army. That's a good thing It's good. I did I agreed kind in Uh, but it's I've played the most probably in aos 3 and having one more option I think we'll just be making way more fun And I'm just hoping that they like mess around with the points a little bit more because I know they can't With like uh Meggarant as is but with brood. I'm hoping that that hill actually have a scroll that's like worth I don't know 600 points. Sure. Sure. Absolutely Like I think it would be great if we tweaked him a little bit and messed around So that they were more in the like 4 30 or 4 20 to 600 range and created some giants They had some some spread in that area. Yeah, I'm just excited because you're getting a priest So that's cool. We're getting priests. Yeah, so that's a good thing Um, all right. What else we got tom? Yeah, so we Have an FAQ dropping we do boom. There it is This FAQ is largely related to one thing. Well, there's two things I'm not going to bring up the other one The other one is they eroded back in the beasts of chaos keyword to the zangor enlightened and Skyfires the king arcane cloud cataclysm because that keyword had gotten left off So cool fine fixed it. We all knew that was going to happen. No big deal Uh, but this is the this is the change purple sun The purple sun got Uh changed So what changed with purple sun? Mainly three things Uh, number one it now only affects units within one inch Of it at the end of its move instead of three inches So quite a change to its effective aura Now for its kill aura, it's negative to save or remained exactly the same Um If no, it's if negative sega is within six inches, wasn't it? No, it was always six inches Yeah the And then if you roll the one if the Unit has a wounds characteristic of nine or less One model in the unit slain, so it'll still kill basically non big heroes And then if you're a big hero i.e. How the game sees big commander versus Sub or whatever their leader versus sub commander or whatever the heck the name is Um, then you take d6 plus six mortal wounds And then the third change is its point cost is now 90 Uh up from from 70. So gentlemen, what do we think of this change? bud i'm gonna start with you Uh, I like the change I used the purple sun at a tournament and I didn't feel like it was fair Although I really enjoyed rolling ones on back-to-back hero phases killing big nergal heroes Um, but just it didn't feel right for a 60 point model to be able to do that Um, this this makes sense like you got a great big hero It shouldn't I mean it still could take it off But now it's There's more involved like there's more of a chance that it won't take it off But you could still do some do some serious damage And 90 points makes way more sense than 60 Agreed it was 70, but I take your meaning nonetheless. You're okay. Sorry. Yes, exactly 90 is where this feels like it belongs instead of 70 Which was ridiculous and made all other and the spells look like a joke if they weren't utility on the spells by comparison Yep Uh Dayton, what do you think about the change? Hey, I just finished attending the tournament up in Prince George the northern waist and the final was between Skaven and fleshier to quartz usually a pretty favorable match for fleshier to quartz In the top of turn two He sent a purple sun out and killed two arch regions on tarragas in his arch region on foot The guy shook his hand took his toys and walked out So I would say this change, uh, I give them two meows of improvement Two approving meows. All right, very good Tristan, what do you think about the purple sun change? I think it's Something like this needed to happen I do think it was actually a pretty good governor for the last few months on some of the larger Big models while it would have a couple swing games like that ridiculous northern waist final For a few armies it was a way to Actually have a chance to kill something right? And I think it was just for me. It was like points But I do think that this needed to change obviously it like it's nice We can all remember the time whenever the purple sun ruled the world again Um, like we can mark this in our calendars like before purple sun and after purple sun, but um, I do think it was the solstice Is And It was It's like just like I never got to use it. I never had to go off Ever in a game and it never killed anything of mine because I'm running giants But I did I do think that it's nice that it still keeps its negative rend. It's nice that it Keeps like some of the features of it But yeah, just kind of whatever it's like great We we won't have the little white boards that have the purple sun kill count. Yeah, sure You can still eat a lot of small heroes I mean I would point out it's still going to do a lot of heavy lifting Against things like nergal and all their bloatflies like are still very much Being consumed by this thing which is a pretty potent tool against that Probably either most powerful or one of the top three armies in the meta right now. So that's good You're gonna do more damage against marathi and gargants Uh, yeah, well marathi will still cap at three, but yes the yeah, but there's always the chance of like rolling that six up On the three mortal moons that she would take so now it's no she's definitely get it Sure. Yes. Now. She's definitely taking her three. Uh, yeah, I mean sun's eat it Uh Like that's they get to full d6 plus six, which I enjoy take that um Tom What do you think of the purple sun? It's fine. I mean I say that as a knight haunt player. It's fine. I'm sure like Uh, I mean it's still not gonna deter me, right? Like purple sun is just another unit in your army that you that moves along with your lines Right. Yeah, it zones for me, you know, it screens. It's fine. Like I'm like I'm still taking it at 90 points and it's still doing its job Sure It never went all it never really popped off for me either. So like I just never got to see it really shine Um, but it's fine Okay Cool All right Yeah, I mean for me I did use it when it was broken and it did kill a lot of stuff. So I'm actually pretty quite glad for the change Uh, I did I did have an opponent basically. It wasn't that bad. It wasn't the like two Archregents and a thing like that. I didn't have that happen, but I had like, uh, I had a Beast claw opponent who had only had like three units left on the table and you know Had a had a decent plan to cause some serious damage with his frost lord on Stonehorn and then Nope Into the sunny winds And that was less than fun for him and I was like, yep, that sucks. So There we are. I didn't even enjoy it though Okay Cool. Well with that, let's go to some uh, oh good Well, uh, now I guess I can do it in two weeks We'll be fine. I'll I'll announce it later. Okay, sounds good. You announce it later tom We have other aos news that are not that That it's not like it's in genre, but not We're gonna wait we'll wait until the actual release on like this seven Are you talking about the secret lairdrop? Is that what you want to talk about tom? Yeah, that's what I was gonna talk about We'll talk about it when it comes out. That's fine Okay, god Uh, so at any rate, uh, let's talk about some pick of the week We're gonna swing back up to bud bud. You're first. What do you got? You got you got a Tyler level amount of choices today Oh Oh my pick of the week. Um It's it's a painting youtube channel and it's not yours. I'm sorry. Tristan has all the choices. I apologize Tristan You're doing a job today, but you've only got one. Yeah, good And you can you can recommend other painting channels. I do it all the time. Okay. All right. Thanks. Uh, And I don't even remember his name exactly. It's Zoroastro. Zoroastro. Yes Zoroastro, uh, which I find fabulous just I've been painting a lot of Marvel crisis in the last year and a half Just because my students really love playing Marvel crisis and they like well painted miniatures So that becomes my job and I find his videos like really easy to follow and I don't There's a lot of techniques of his that I won't try because He shows really good up to a level and then he there's stuff that go up here But you don't have to go up there to make the models look really good And you don't feel like you have to so It's um, that's my pick of the week. I just I've really enjoyed just following his stuff It's a it's a great choice. He does the man does a lot of work On his videos like he is an exemplary video maker It is crazy the the level of quality that that guy puts in his videos. So absolutely Dayton, what do you got? Uh, yeah, there's a campaign going on right now. It ends I believe at the end of this week That'll be the 40 hours of 40k campaign that's going on right now It's all the top artists in england All work together to raffle off and this year. It's a thousand sons army This is their fourth year doing it. Andrew's going to be playing 40 hours of 40k This weekend starting saturday and I think they're already up to like 5 000 pounds There's a bunch of prize supports for that and it's all going towards The calm campaign, which is the campaign against living miserably And it's all basically Like people dealing with ptsd x military First responders and such like that So it's a really good campaign and honestly, these are some of the top painters commission painters and I think bobby red eagle studios has I think he's got 27 artists that helped him this year Wow, so and they've been working on this army since january and it's absolutely gorgeous And uh, so that's that's going on. So that's the the serious one and then the fun one is the uh, what is it the art for kids hub on youtube Which uh, yeah, it's great Like he they just like draw a picture and it's like him and someone else So then I always sit down with my daughter and we each draw our own Take on it and then color them in and it's a fun like little half hour Nice. What was the uh, what was the latest one that they just put up there did it? Oh, it's only gonna be halloween theme now They're rolling in halloween heart. Yeah, it was a werewolf hot dog. Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty fun channel Very nice. Uh, you can find those links down below Uh, it's a great cause absolutely tristan. You have the tyler amount of picks. I apologize hit us I'm just gonna go with the full tailor here Now, um, I actually got one specifically for the space station zero sickos in the chat. Yes, um a beautiful book That's called burzak's mercenary handbook. It's done by this artist who goes under the name bag boss and it is this like 20 or 30 page sort of like the classic star wars. Um Books that I used to have as a kid They'd always be like a little bit thick They'd have like a big write-up about the ships and about like the characters and like they'd have like all the tear downs It's kind of like that before these awful these oddball mercenaries that are like all like spacey um great art style super, um What's the word it's like kind of like a almost a french vibe to it, but like 1970s french artists Sure gorgeous stuff. The characters are hilarious and you can probably hit them up on twitter Um, or you can go to the link just below. It's great. It's only 10 bucks for the PDF But you he I think he has a couple of the hard copies left over Because they actually did do a full run of this and it's just it's a gorgeous book super fun And I think that anybody who likes space station zero could have a lot of fun Come like taking characters from this or having that as like a springboard for an idea Very nice And then the next one is for my one of my favorite people on the internet. Um, hey, whoa I don't know if you've heard of them. We've heard of him great guy Great guy a great list. Yeah, huh? They um pretty big. I forgot to wear my hat. Damn it. Oh, hey. Whoa. Hey was a great guy He was a really good guy So, uh, he has a first tournament checklist video it's about 10 minutes I'm going to my first tournament ever like I've never been to a big like hullabaloo Okay, okay. Um, so this precocious neophyte is super stoked and super terrified that I'm going to forget So many things but with this checklist that he has it's going to be a good time because I'm going to make sure I have my everything As long as you know I own it and it exists because with the the giants book coming out I am going to be taking my two kings giants and um if that book doesn't like exist only on the internet in Whatever form that I guess that's what I'm going to use There you go And then finally at the end of my complete tailored them We have the nomad feast masters battle report because you can't be tailor And not have season of war. You got to have a season of war pick. Absolutely Absolutely, so I went full tailor and season of war just did a nomad feast masters battle report and it is Amazing you get to see some of the ins and outs of the battle tomes see everything actually come to life ridge and Jordan have a great game between some gifts And the nomads you get to see like some of the like the pushes and pulls of everything It just seems like a total blast and it I love I love the creativity that the community has And seeing something so well done Come to life on a great battle report channel Beautiful thing beautiful thing if you got the time definitely check it out Absolutely all linked below Tom You're up next. I mean in seeing In seeing the list Right. I was like, I'm not picking something. There's like 20 options here. So No Pass. Okay got it That's fine. This man. Yes. That's I agree. Thank you That's my tad My pick of the week is for speaking of space station zero. There's a channel called manning the fort Bought space station zero did a really cool review of it and it walks through So if you're looking for more like an outsider's perspective, nobody we know, I don't know this gentleman Seems like a super cool dude He likes the game I wrote so that makes me like him You know pretty pretty easy to me. I'm pretty easy person to win over But no, it's a good review Talks you through it and talks through like what's there? What's the game like that kind of thing? So if you want to see somebody else, you know, who picked it up cold and it does a good breakdown of it Link down below. Check it out Uh Have been have been studio shout outs at the end or is that part of like is that kind of the what the pick of the week is You can you can shout out now or at the end? Who would you like to shout out? I'll do it out Okay, so I got a box of marvel crisis models in the mail today from mike maccabee from alabama Who's like, hey, I have all this mcp stuff sitting in my closet. That's not doing anything I want to send this to you for your school club. So it's like It was like 20 20 models in there. That's awesome like Dyson tokens. So Thank you very much. I opened it up today. I was like, uh, it's so amazing So I wanted to show him up because that was that was just like an amazing thing that I got in the mail today from him That's awesome. I want to shout out. I want to shout out bud because bud's awesome Talk mine I want to shout out bill susan. I made this shirt just for you There it is all right Uh, let's talk about a little uh, little hobby time. Shall we gentlemen? Uh, bud, what's been on your table, man? What are you working on? What have you been painting? Um, so in preparation, I haven't touched aos since nash con. It's been a rough time Um, but these are the dark times. Yeah, they are I have been painting a lot of uh marvel crisis terrain Uh, some of it terrain that anthony plakastro printed up for me and gave me at at nash con Um, just yeah painting models and getting stuff ready for the school year kids are so excited We had our first like gaming day at lunch today. So kids kids only kids playing at the table is just like oh this model I'm with this model and just learning how to play and Hobbying and it's just uh warms my heart so much. You're doing the lord's work there Uh getting the next generation into the games. That's good. That's good. Absolutely Dayton, how about yourself? What's on your you're painting something right now? That's all I do. I work. I paint and I parent Uh currently going through night on I am looking at 80 blade guys that I've been painting up in the The uh the king and yellow theme Very nice going hard into blade guys, huh? Yeah, I don't do I don't half-ass anything. I full-ass just all the ass all the cat ass into all this night on Very nice. Very nice Tristan what about yourself? What tomb kings thing has been on your table recently? Well, I finished off a unit of three skills and chariots because I'm a sicko um, I have Just I'm just coming into like the very final parts of actually that big giant choppy guy that I Have on my shoulder here that I showed a little bit earlier Yep, I just have to finish up the basing and some of the that's what I've left a couple of gems because Some idiot sculpted probably a couple hundred gems on that Sure. Um, I'm I'm that idiot by the way. I got you then I have you're the gem to Oh, thanks, buddy. All right, sorry And then I have to do this gigantic Ushab that I just finished the other day He's very pretty. I like that. Thank you Thank you. The question is is it gonna be done in three weeks Tristan? Yeah, shut up date Where's the rest of manfred? Would you do the rest of manfred? I assume that is that going to be what is he standing in as? He's a man crusher because I'm like that very nice Uh Beautiful extra I that looks like it was that the avatar cane is the base the 40k avatar of cane Uh, no, uh, that's a different one. Actually, this is magnus the red. Oh, okay, sure Yeah, I got a little couple pieces. Um, I did I actually took the sphinx's legs from the necro sphinx kit and used that as the arms Quality just rearranged them. But yeah, I got a I do have an avatar of cane one back there I did a I did a really fun little build it challenge with the wonderful steve foot and We both had a great time messing around with that kit. Very nice. It is a very fun kit It's it's it's good for it. It has a lot of potential in it. I like that. I like that. Well, yeah, then what are you working on? Well, it's tom's turn first. I don't worry. I'm I'm I'll go last Tom what commission projects haven't you been finishing? Uh, no, I'm just not in any touch in those right now I've got I got a pass on those I have a pause an official pause that they said I can wait So, um, uh fire slayers is the right answer. Got it Get your fire slayers ready to go Working on fire slayers. Okay. All right. I thought you're gonna say I'm waiting till october 7th to answer that I mean I might be but That's another conversation Sure Uh for myself, I painted up this big boy He's just a quick fun job Uh, it didn't there's just like a day project that turned into a two-day project But he's just a big it was just a quick fun little dude. This is the He is really big. Yes. This is the this is the clay beast creations. Uh rat guy Um, he was a little little unwieldy to paint. I will admit but uh, is a cool model Just because his size and I went back and forth and I Painted him and then hated it and painted over him again and still hated it and then third time's a charm And I got him to something I don't hate So he kind of looks like a Todd McFarland action figure a little bit A little bit. Yeah So he's the uh, he'll be my vermin lord deceiver. Obviously. He's the you know teleporty Like he has no lower body. I don't know if you can see that or not. There's no lower body there He has no legs It's just it's just he's appearing out of nothing. So He painted that three times in two days Uh, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I hate you so much Well, I hate I hate how my paint job looks to make you feel any better. So that we all we're all in the same boat Okay, so we're all happy then. Yeah, exactly. We can all be miserable together. Yay Um, everybody that had been how we were rolling man, toba The but now that cool rat now that scary rat is done that leaves me one other giant rat That needs to be painted She's not within arm's reach But that's that's sexy rat. Yeah, absolutely. It's it's time I've I've cleared my my bench of everything else that I had over those weeks. I couldn't paint and now Now it's time now. It's time to invest way too much time into that model I make everyone question My sanity and other other important aspects of my life. All right Uh, but sexy rat is uh You know, it's coming. Sexy rat is what's up. It is what's up All right gentlemen Are you ready to play america's favorite new game show? I'll take your silence is yes I don't know if you know this but we live in canada. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I don't know if you have the broadcasting rights Uh, did you talk to the crtc? Yeah, we're gonna have to see the can con levels are good because you have like a three to two ratio At 60 ratio, we need to know about the writing staff Uh, it's it's all canadian all the way down here. Absolutely. Don't worry. We're good We actually produced this out of vancouver. So we're good. We use all all canadian extras It basically looks like the cast of iZombie or any cw superhero show behind the scenes here So are all the jack-o-chan movies on that. That's funny There you go. There you go Uh, so keep change kill We are going to be discussing the things in age of sigmar that should be kept What should stay around but be changed? Uh, perhaps significantly and then what should be killed? What is irredeemable? What cannot be saved and should just be put out to pasture? Yes absolutely, so That is the the game we play tonight I'm gonna start with a little summary here. This is just vince talky talky part for a minute and then we'll get into the game But i'll i'll get your all feedback on this on my summary part here 40 000 foot view is of aos right now is this it's in the best place. It's ever been as a game Yeah, most armies are falling in the 45 to 55 wind rate We're seeing tighter winds more more like the top of tournaments is generally a Wider swath of armies than it's ever been Most new books are coming better balanced playing to the army's themes And offering better internal and external balance far from perfect. We got a ways to go on that But it's better There are however some real challenges with 3.0 complexity ease of entry Uh, the current season's rules in the ghp Uh Certainly leave something to be desired. I think So the goal here is keep change kill We pick one item from the game to keep it as is change it into something better But evolve or kill from the game completely. This can be any unit thing rule Core rule doesn't matter just anything any discrete thing In aos we can can be our choices each of us will make one choice per keep change kill And uh you the audience will vote not really because we don't have a voting mechanism in this But imagine you do you can just put in the comments who's you like or something like that okay so These are my summary statements tristan. What do you think of my summary statements? Do you agree with the my my my starting foundational premise? I think the foundational premise is solid I really like the fact that we get to talk about maiming and killing and I always like having a catchy title I think that this will be a very fun and lively discussion I agree, but were you following on this? I already know that anything I say that has to do with gets will automatically make me the winner So I've remembered that part. You know, there are no winners and losers in this. I do Absolutely agree with the complexity Of the game right now as someone who deals with a lot of younger players trying to get into aos It's like there's a lot of pairing down that has to happen with the rules just like to get Youngsters going into the hobby. Um, but I think the game is in a really good place. I like I like 3 3.0 We're gonna get into some of the things I really like about it. Actually just one thing has been said. That's all I was loud Good. Well, I'm sure we'll I'm sure we'll sneak in some lightning rounds here or there You know how it is with the format of these shows Dayton, what about you? Where you living? Yeah, so like when it first rolled out the new ghp. I was pretty scared with all the rules but things have been balancing out really well in the meta and Something that I can always say that I haven't had any argument to is Like there hasn't been a bad book Like things seem to be pretty good And it's not like the newest thing is the new greatest latest and that's what's going to kick the turn his ass No, it's like they're complex and you got to kind of figure them out and they're they seem to be pretty good internal balance Yeah, it's funny. All of 3.0 has been like a proof point that power creep isn't a thing Because you know like the the the top three armies in the meta. There's like one in there of the current books or whatever, you know and everything else is is Is bounces around between old 2.0 books and stuff like that like there's 2.0 There's second edition books the top second edition books way down at the bottom all that kind of stuff Most of 3.0 books are sitting pretty firmly in the middle. There's just one little one little potential out there there Uh You know grandfather be praised uh tom What about you? fine um No, I I agree with uh, no, I agree with the summary I think that there are real challenges But it's hard to repeat the fact that like aos is truly in the best place it's been Yeah, um, it's really banging on all cylinders every book. I'm looking forward to there really hasn't been Um, I mean the studio is doing very well Yeah Yeah, I do think that the the ease of entry is the biggest challenge right now Like where the place isn't a great the game isn't a great place for competitive players for knowledgeable players for people who are in it But gosh, is there no there's no like we're just we're in top gear constantly Right like there is no wheeling it back to drive around the neighborhood and take a take a nice casual sunday afternoon drive, right? It's just yeah throttle is all the way engaged period Uh, and that's the problem. That's where one of the problems. Okay, so Let us begin Keep it. We're gonna start with keep it Okay So We begin With the keep it thing This is where we're all going to pick a thing that we should we think should stay in age of sigmar Going forward we keep it as it is Right now Okay So you're not allowed to change anything here. It has to be it's lifted up and set down And done Okay. All right, bud. You're up first. What are we keeping? Good, uh battle tactics Wow, okay leave it 3.0 thing. Um, that was it's been one of my That's been one of my favorite things that I've liked about this edition. Um, I've dabbled in 40k and I've I've enjoyed their secondary objectives that they had and felt that we could use something like that in a os And I think a os does that better like with the turn by turn battle tactics. I think is better than the 40k Secondaries and I want I like they always need improvement Some books doctors came Get stuff that they shouldn't because I don't know what datan Well, how what datan all sends it's probably saskatoon jam that nicole makes and sends to the gw headquarters That lets daughters of kane have what they do you have but it's good. Thanks. That's my keeper Okay, okay That's a bold that is a bold first pick Coming out very strong Tristan you're up next. What's your keep it? For me It's the extra reach On small models the yes and of this edition the Being able to actually have your smaller Models get that extra reach that came with becoming a galation better Gotcha so the bonds of brotherhood or bonds of battle or brotherhood battle brawn brothers or something like that whatever It's called the thing where you can fight if you're within a half an inch of somebody who's within an half an inch Yeah, so I think that this completely changed the game for so many units and it's made a lot of things that could be fun Actually fun. Mm-hmm. So to me it just like this should just be the rule Like it just should that just should be how it works. Like this has come from a guy who plays mega gardens and tune games Um So it's like it doesn't affect me much But it just I can see the joy, you know, the people's I can see the killability The absolute slaughter that it's unlocked for some people and it's how it's made some units that could be absolutely shafted by the Coherency rule still usable. Okay. Now. I know we said we have to keep it and it can't change But this would have to change because theoretically galation veterans don't stick around forever, right? So but it could become a core rule, right? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. Like we keep the rule. So it's it's it's legal It's legal. You're you're good. You're good. I'm just asking like when it gets kept going forward. Is that just how battle line works Yeah, I think I think battle line or invention keyword. I feel like it should be how it works Okay, okay. Yeah Just basically like that that size roll group of models. They just fight like that. That's what they can do Yeah, exactly All right, okay. No, I'm not as bold as bud, but not many people are I hey, it's it's a solid pick. I suspect you're gonna have a uh I suspect you're gonna be a that's a much more popular choice than buds. I'll say that right away. Okay Uh, incredibly popular. That works there. It's it's one follows right from the others Uh Dayton What's your what's your keep it? What are you keeping? Hey, Jen? Uh, I'm keeping the lack of bonus points in the uh tactics to piggyback off bud a little bit too And and yeah, all right. Thanks buddy Okay, basically just keeping them like pin them to two You said like yeah, there's like almost no bonus tactics like because we just came out of a ghp edition That was just chocked full of bonus points everywhere that could just throw a game and now it's actually super tight games um Focus more on the objectives You know what I mean? Like you're you're actually vying and trying to control more than your opponent to get that one extra Because that one extra could win you the game And when you're down to the fifth turn, you're like the grand strat could be really this I need to cancel his and get mine because that'll that'll determine it I've had a lot of really close games with this edition and it's been Fun and intense and great outlandish moments of screaming at dice that uh, that's what i'm all about. It's a lot of fun So there's my kitty of improvement very nice. Yeah, I mean the the reality is the If we ever want grand strategies to mean anything and no one's picked that to keep it But like let's just say they stick around right whatever If we want them to ever mean anything Then the games have to be relatively close right because if you're if you're already winning 32 to 10 Yeah, like who cares Right if that's sort of the average delta Then grand strategies are just a completely pointless choice you write down on your sheet and never ever care about because it's never going to influence the game ever right But if if points are relatively constrained and people are fighting back and forth on the like You know the getting the full three points out of the whole one whole two hold more Situation and and tactics are largely just two here, you know, just set it to and that's what they are Then it does produce just simply a tighter range of potential points outcomes, right? That's what happens Yeah, pretty simple Okay, okay, very good. And yes, it makes suddenly that that thing, you know matter in some way for your overall score Uh tom what's your keep it? pace of battle foams Oh, okay. All right So we've been at eight to ten per year. Yep Since launch, let's let's keep it going eight to ten. Let's just keep pounding them out. You hit hit year three hit year four Awesome. Keep them moving eight to ten okay, um So effectively at that rate, right? Let's assume let's assume we averaged eight or eight and a half or something around the number, right? Yep, eight to nine everybody's updated in year three Yeah, but exactly. So within each what you're what you're saying there is Definitely everybody gets a book every edition. That's what happens because we're on a three-year edition cycle now. Yes yeah, and like Are we are we on a full three-year now? Yeah, it's a three-year edition cycle. I mean like I don't know that but of course we are Sure, okay. So every game they have is on a three-year edition cycle I see no reason to believe we wouldn't be any different like a os has been since launch 2015 2018 2021 Okay, I have no reason not to believe in 2024. It won't be a os 4.0 like sure Okay, fine, uh, then then maybe eight slow 10 to 12 Like what I want to see is everything updated and I still want to see new books Okay Okay, because you're saying you're when you say new books you mean new armies I want to see one to two new are new armies a year. Wow. Okay, uh, what gets retired? Cities The literal thing I have on the uh on the screen The thing that they're doing an entire Year long or whatever build up to right now of hey get excited. We're redesigning this entire line Yeah, but that's it. But but that counts redesigning an entire line Reimagining it. Okay. That counts as one of the new arms. Yes. Yeah, okay. Yes. Like I'm talking about entire new model lines, right? Um, and so doing one a year Got it. Like is that is that the rule is new model line not new well? So for example, you want to see some new armies, too But you're not you're not literally saying we have to have a right or two new complete armies cut from whole cloth every single year Correct. I like I want to I still want to see updates where like portions of a range are updated in a book I don't want everything to be heroes, you know Clam packed heroes or battle box, you know, like releases. Yes, sir Like we need to have some line refreshes with sometimes we need so there's a couple different Things here. We sometimes we need uh, like portions of a refresh Sometimes we need the entire line refreshed and sometimes we need the line reimagine So like cities is a reimagining. Yeah, that's not a line refresh, right? And so that's what I'm talking about like when I say new armies, uh, entire line refresh isn't a line reimagining And so a reimagining is what I'm talking about like a new thing Okay of whatever that is So if they do like a serif on offshoot section like they actually give models to let's say Um, the starboard host ones that's a portion of them. That's a portion of a release That's not in like that's not a new conceptualization, but it's not a new conceptual thing But like if they made it like full on space lizards as like that whole thing would you consider that a whole new one? Yes, like wait, like if you had like a dozen new kits of the space lizards, right? Yeah, that's that's certainly qualifying for what you're talking about where we get the actual lizard spaceships because like a great example of this would be the Um, yeah, can you imagine a bunch of aztec spaceships? It would be a yes I can just the art in heart of gur is incredible for that for that lizard band spaceship It's so it's so wonderful. Sure. And I want that I just want that I want battletoad gothic We've talked about it on this show like a hundred times But I want silver towers fighting like Coradron overlord sky ships and then skaven skryer flying ships and Uh, serif on spaceships all just like in an aerial dogfight. I want aos fly aroundicus Yes, I don't like orders in space so I can yell pigs in space every time I show up to the table Look, the orcs will get up there somehow. They always do. Yeah always do. Um, and so I like I So a great example. This is war clans Okay, so war clans launched an entire new line within that book It's not just iron jolts. It's not just savage orcs. We got uh, You know hop drops cruel boys, right? Um, like I consider that to be a reimagining because they they dramatically expanded what the line was And so like that would be like that would be an appropriate, you know Assessment. So that's what I want to see and I want to see that pace keep up Because what we've seen is not that we've seen two years of fairly rapid book releases Followed by a year of tepid releases and story book half update Sure, the sort of end of the addition thing that happens. We got like broken realms and stuff. Yeah Yes, yeah, they need to take a uh a lesson from watsi And just make make the product evergreen So All right, though, that's it. That's a dream to stop the addition roll. Sure Um, but like but let the addition roll be part of the Yeah, I mean, it's always tough because you like I think about that I I don't mind if they do those. Let me say it this way I don't mind and I'm curious We'll probably discuss some of these takes here in a moment for everybody's but you you raised a really interesting point to me I kind of hate it when you get a battle tone Three months or four months before an addition change is about to happen And you know, it's coming like we all know it's coming in summer of 2024, right? Because again If like everything in 40k kill team war cry and aos has went on a three-year cycle We have no reason to believe it will be any different for for the next edition of aos And it just kind of sucks when you're the last Well, you know when you're the the last chopper out of nom or something, you know in of the old edition Uh, you know soul break labor soul blight grave lords is a perfectly fine book But it would have been so much better as just a true 3.0 book Right and so I don't think I want any books for like I don't know the nine months leading up to the Edition change over like the last book should release in fall of 2023 the last mainline book And then they should just be like No more books no more battle tones. It's just not happening and all we're going to do is narrative stuff We'll do you know, we'll do a special narrative event and it'll be fun and you'll use your armies in weird and wacky ways You know the end of the edition's coming. You all know we're on this cycle. We've been incredibly transparent about it Here's some fun things. They're going to have a limited use that you can get into they're they're just there to have A wacky good time and change how your armies are playing as we all send off the edition Into the into the sunset together Right. Yeah, well, it's a beautiful time to release things like the incarnate Like that changes up the meta that changes up because you know, they're going to do more incarnates And then you can also yeah, you can take note. Thank you Tristan. That's such a good point You can be you can if you've got risky things you want to release that you think might break the stupid game Like an incarnate for example Okay, put it out six months before you roll the editions and then or nine months and just Don't necessarily allow that thing in in the next edition, right? Just your default battle pack doesn't even reference it And then only put it into the next battle pack if you think it actually passed the smell test Okay, I think it's a great idea way too logical But yes, I agree with you on the pace of battle tomes. I'd love to see honestly like the first two point Three years Of an edition Everybody's refreshed just like breakneck pace. Let's do it. Let's keep doing them in doubles. I'm with that. Okay. All right Uh, very good All right, anybody else have any thoughts on the on the pace of books. That was a good call tom. I like that Um, my hot take is that every new edition should launch with indexes So that's my hot take Because that was the best part of the last 40k refresh was the index launch because that made it so everybody was on the same footing Everybody had units that all kind of worked the same. There were rules that everybody had So it just like it just swept up a whole bunch of people and made the game so much more accessible But yeah, and then like they added all the other books and it just became a haves and haves Now it's after that but to me indexes or like, I don't know whatever you want to call them archives It's called americats That would be to me the best way to launch an edition Okay. Yeah, I mean I am completely with you like ravening hoards with some of my favorites. Just like I love when everybody's on exactly the same footing The the problem with that is you will probably get more angry people Than and yeah, by the way, adam said it can be digital. Yeah, sure. I don't I don't care Like if they if they need to make it be out as a book so that people have to pay money I I don't care that much like as long as you make them cheap like softcover cheap books. It's fine Um, but you know, like it is it is a business. They are a capitalist enterprise. Like I I understand what's going on I thought they did it for the love of the game. Yeah, indeed Um, but I I would prefer it just be digital. I agree That would be the better way to go if they wanted to be really consumer friendly The problem is everybody would be angrier at them Than if they didn't do that because then they'd be like, oh now I've thrown my book in the trash. Why do I even buy this book? Right, that's that would be their response Okay, I only got I only got one of those books behind me, but come down. Yeah So but yeah, okay. All right, very good Uh, my keep it is very simple. My keep it is all of the armies All of the armies and what I mean by that is I don't want anything else retired So my keep it's pretty simple. I feel like we retired enough stuff Uh, I'm good with the amount of retirement we've had Let's stop retiring things. No more no more retiring Uh, what we're going to keep is everybody's here now. You all get a space You're all in You're all in the club. We have a seat for you You in perpetuity or at least, you know for a reasonable amount of time that is to say like Nothing lasts forever the world all all and we and all is eventually dust of course, but uh, But you know like A reasonable time frame, you know your army that you're into is going to stick now We've we've had enough time. We know what's going on in the mortal realms. No more changing around armies. This is what they are Everybody's gotten in their seats Right musical chairs is over. We're done Everybody's got a seat Okay, like he's reaching right into your soul tristan and ripping out all your feet. I know it's fine It's fine. I'm just crying on the outside. I didn't say nobody knew we can have new people. I said no more retired Okay uh I mean Look tristan's probably the only person in the world who has more tomb kings than I do Paint it. So, you know, I'm just saying I I get it. I get it I'm just a freak on a leash here, man. Sure. Absolutely. That's how we do But that's what I want to see like I just don't want to deal with any kind of suspicion or is this guy I'm just I'm so sick of people talking about is this going to get squatted or something which by the way I don't even know if that works anymore No, it's called it's tk'd or tk'd tk'd. Yeah, there you go. Yeah tk'd. I don't want anybody else to get tk'd There you go Okay Yeah, as someone who dove pretty hard into an army that then They just stopped letting you play them even though they said back in the day that oh, yeah, and you'll be always be able to play them um I agree firmly Like I got into this game knowing full well that they had stopped making tomb kings Because I didn't play warhammer fantasy at all. There's never a game that interested me. I thought rank and flank was boring um, and my opinion is 100 correct suck at chat um, and and it uh It just sucked Because like you put in it's like the character of each one of these armies that we have right now They've done a great job of making everything so idiosyncratic Like everything has its own voice like they've done a good job or at least a pretty good job with ever Similitude of a lot of armies or at least are like aiming them the play styles Like they've done a really good job And like having my tomb kings get legend did having them get thrown into the dust of history um It just sucked because like they did a good job on them too because they almost broke that um They made it so nothing else played like them. So I just was just standing around Being like, well, what am I gonna play now? They're sure It gives me the same feeling and it just don't I don't want your animal anymore Well, I don't know we don't have to talk about spirit animals But yeah, so yeah, totally agree totally agree don't don't need a mind's a cat Yeah So, yeah, I think that's just like they should and by the way, I would make that an official thing where we say These are all the armies in aos. They're not going away for the foreseeable future I'm not talking like a restricted listing. We don't need to go that far But like these will stay for the you know, we know these are here for the for the next At least five years six years for the foreseeable future. You can keep it amorphous like that. I don't care, right? Because I'm sure by 9th edition aos or something will probably be retiring some line or another fine. Whatever Couldn't you at least make the promise of like for the next edition? Whatever. Yeah, I mean there's lots of ways you could do it, right? Yeah, and Fine like I don't care. Just plant the flag Right. They definitely want to keep their out so they can get rid of things like fire slayers, right? So Yeah, gotta play to those outs Right Yes, I hate he says retire models not armies. Yeah, sure Absolutely, there's some models that I'm happy if they go the way of the dodo like especially if they get replaced I don't care. It's a new model, but sure All right I don't care if they get rid of fire slayers as long as they don't replace The like the concept, right? If they if they retire all of the existing fire slayer models and they're like oopsie doopsie Look those all were bad. We're gonna try again. Here's fire slayers 2.0. Cool. I'm in like they've got pants now They discovered pants technology Yep, like give them like aztec gold mantles, right? Like the like give them some Yeah, anyways, sure. You say this now, but let's talk about lumenath realm lords and the joker face weirdos that are ovr Like whenever you change something like that, it can have a totally different effect on you, right? Like you don't know if the new the devil, you know versus the devil. You don't right the new aesthetic might not hit for you Yeah, sure, then you know what? I'm gonna use my old models sure Like that's the alternative, right? Like but that's the point is yeah, listen I just need something with a cherry at base man. Let's go Seriously, we're spoiled for options though for faction choice Like they're there's the hardest point is just trying to figure out what you want to dedicate yourself to And most of us have like freaking like eight armies just sitting on the shelves Yeah, I mean there are 25 to be clear here. There are 25 Armies in the game right now. Just so we're all clear with what I'm saying stating them to commit to right? So yeah, you're forgetting the feast masters What's that? You're forgetting the feast masters 26 unofficial things like Like cast dwarves and and feast masters don't count. They're all they're all fake armies For you Ted Wow, however, the feast masters are at least as real as cast dwarves. So that's fine There you go So they're on a level they're on a level. Okay Uh, all right Okay, uh, good. So that was our that was our keep it. What are your keep it? I've been seeing lots of good comments in the in the lots of good chat. They're going by Just to review real quick, but battle tactics Uh Dayton You know more even points so lack of bonus points all over the place basically keeping even scores which we're seeing in the current season Okay, tom book release Timing pace. Yep book release pace Tristan bond of battle brotherhood brother battles Fight within a half an inch of people within a half an inch Right just flows off the tongue. It's so easy And for myself all of the existing armies. So there we go. That's that's our keep it Uh, okay lightning round time before we leave it behind see I told you I'd surprise you and change the rules Uh without any discussion. Is there anything else anybody wants to say this must be Kept I love this too much any little item people want to throw out there Uh, Dayton, do you have a do you have a second one? All in dice Good good one. We definitely keep it a dice game. I'm with that. That's fine. That is a valid selection Tristan kicking objectives Oh, you want to see kicking objective stay. Okay. I don't want to say yeah Okay, I love how we went from the broadest possible thing to the most specific thing just like From telescope to electron microscope in one choice I have range sure bud Uh smaller table sizes Oh, okay Okay choice bud is just dropping the hot takes tonight. I love it. God. Okay Tom the mortals term in excess The particular endless spell from night haunt, huh? That's that's the one. Yeah, that has to stick around Okay, yeah, you could have picked endless spells as a whole but no, it's just that one Does that one like it's my favorite. I love it. I love it and I love pushing it around if people go and what's that and I'm like I don't know. You're about to find out though. I don't know Freakin first Oh, no, I just put my list. I think it looks cool D3 mortal wounds to this 12 inch bubble. Yeah, sure. Yeah, this is ridiculously very large area. Yeah You know what it does Thomas It's a pretty good endless spell The Statiously on don't you lie like that Uh priority roll priority rolls. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Yeah, that's that's like that's an obvious one that I felt like We didn't have to say it All right, I we've got a plan to flag and defend it Yeah, yeah, it's just like it's such a core part of the game It's such an interesting mechanic in how it works It can be both punishing and empowering. It can be It adds like a skill test to a really interesting element of the game. It adds an unpredictability It creates moments of surprise and suspense. It can be tough There are certain people who will just probably never play the game as long as it exists Like that's just reality of the thing and that's fine I'm not gonna like if they can't if that's not a thing that they Enjoy or or can picture themselves enjoying or or One of their game I have no ill will against them But I think as the game is it's become as core to the heart of this game as anything else And should stay for as long as aos exists. So Okay, cool That's keep it You know what that means. It's time for Change it. By the way, I tried to make this art appropriate like keep it was the city of sigmar because they build keeps and Solid fortifications and stay in places, you know, and then and they're all stale old kits that come with squares still. Yeah And we've kept them forever. Yes, exactly. Yeah Change it. There was obviously only one piece of there's only one god that could be used here Only one only one army that had to show up here Vince's favorite Love them can't get enough All right, change it. So the thing where we like maybe an idea Of what's going on like there's there's a kernel of a good idea here, right? But it needs to change it needs to evolve. It needs to be rewritten altered We've got a we've got a bionic man. It right. We can improve it. We have the technology. Okay So this time Dayton you're starting us off Jesus what's your change? The generic battle uh enhancements That's that that's your thing you want to change or is that so what's oh you gotta I should state here You've got to describe what your change is of course, so Oh, okay. Now we're doing homework. All right Yes, indeed I'll buy you a moment as I answer tom's question in the chat Why did we go for the lord of change crotch shot? It was the most interesting centered position for the whole army But yes, it is very centered on that lord of change is like bird groin. That is true All the way through these uh ghb's and everything that's going on. We've still been keeping the same generic enhancements But bud with the same angle the same energy There we go. Okay. The same you mean like the core rules enhancements like the yeah So the arcane tome And because everyone just knows arcane tome because that's the one that's taken all the time. Yep, or master magic You know what I mean? Like yep. Yep. Blaming weapon high priest Flaming weapon master of magic arcane tome curse all the hits Yeah, to be clear to be fair to be clear. I know to be clear that we're on warhammer wednesdays. Um This is what you want to change slightly Yes, like I still want I like the idea of the generic enhancements to kind of help balance books out But I need to see a change now like we've been riding these ones for so long now. It's kind of It's it's it's dragging on me Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna plum here a little bit. We're plumbing. Okay Are these removed from the core book and moved to like the ghb? They should be yeah or to about gsh or something like that I'm actually really surprised that hasn't been done that right like they just keep the original still in the uh the back of the rules Because that's every ghb always has goes back to reference the original rules, right? Sure, like there's no reason a battle pack couldn't say Generic enhancements may not be used Instead use these Right, right like that's that we don't we don't even really need to change anything like the technology is already there They could just say Okay, one more page or two more pages. Yeah, here's this season's universals Right. Yeah, it's like what they do with the battle tactics and the grand strats, right? Yeah, exactly Exactly the exact same thing. But those ones they decided to just never change So we all end up with the exact same thing like Legitimate question You go like you for for everyone who's who plays a who's been playing some games of aos Out of the last 10 games you've played Okay How many armies that you played against? Would you say had either arcane tome or master of magic in their list? Like I would say like 30 percent Okay, that's lower than I expected tristan. What about you aim? Um, I think I'm at like Santhony sure sure like it's Like whenever it's not that i'm surprised right. Yeah, it's almost a default bud I know you haven't gotten in games recently because of the no the you're you're busy shepherding the next generation But what do you think that's right? Well, I would say like just it uh from nash con and slaughtered it's like yeah 70 percent That's sounds about right Yeah, I've got to agree with that number easily like honestly seven out of ten would be shooting low for me Uh, I haven't played any games without that In months. Yeah, and you're saying in your list, right? All of my lists have arcane tome by default sure Uh, right with the their talus. Yeah, like that's where I start cool Yeah, it's just interesting because we like and that's not I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing uh the The I tend to have some universal in basically every list I've made most of the time so Which I think that conceptually isn't a problem It's fine if the universals are interesting The problem dating that I think you're highlighting that I that I think I agree with if it if I've got my finger on the right thing is It's not that you taking universals is a problem. It's that we've only taken the same universals for the whole time of Basically 3.0's existence. It's like the same five things period. That's it. I would say yeah four almost, but yeah Sure, I mean curse is just like curse is the appendix this little dangler thing That's like hanging on there because really it's high priest master magic spoiled people like seraphon Sure, where they're just like sure or or like firesayers rune mat like the rune the rune master Like the main caster that gets all the prayers automatically from the lore. So he's like cool curse Like because that's the only one he like he already gets everything else And so he just defaults to curse Dayton, where do you want the power level of the generics to sit visa v compared to what's in the actual army books? Uh, I want I want them to be like You pick what's in your book and they've been doing a pretty good job of making some really enticing enhancement picks And then okay, I get an extra one Maybe now I'm going to start looking into the universal for some word that I'm kind of lacking a little bit Yeah I think that's a good goal Like so it's kind of 50 50 on the second choice unless the universal happens to play into like some exact strat That you you know you were going to build to or something like that, right? Right, it shouldn't just be a go to even with like the new seraphon. You're still seeing arcane tolemer master magic Uh, yeah You got to turn that engine the gods into a wizard somehow homie and it ain't gonna it ain't gonna just wizard itself. Okay So I've I've got to create the most powerful unit in existence By having a monster with the skink keyword who can summon things and pray and cast spells It's the everything model There is no rules. I do I have I have more. I'm like a third edition d&d druid My special rules are more powerful than your entire army Here's what's for you. It's like the mall return to that. Yeah Or the west emits and all west emits and all it has everything and it's a roller coaster. It's kind of an ice rink I miss ice rinks and moles that was always fun Yeah, I loved ice rinks and moles There's a new hockey team that's actually going to be playing all their games in a mall. They just signed it for like a four-year deal That's incredible and I love it. Uh, are they called the rats? All right, bud you're up next what's your change it? Um Coherency I like it. I like it the way it is But I think it needs to be adjusted for and they're starting to do it for the larger base models I think we need to see a little more For that Okay, so what's your coherency change? We know how the normal rules work now Right, what's the we're already keeping battle bond brotherhood of brother bound battles Okay, you know that that stayed because we said that in the first round. So what's your coherency change now to like Fade along with that. Well, I think I think if anything um I don't have a hard and fast line. So I don't want to hear all about that. Well, what about this won't want about this Uh, but I think like the storm drake guard rule where they're like stuff on bigger bases is getting that two inch coherency Um, and they don't need to be within two. They only need to be within one. I think it is um, I I like that like and especially um Like you get units like pigs Like the amount of geometry that you have to be able to do To fiddle around and try to get oh, I'm trying to get this in here And I know that because I did it on geometers sketch pad That if I put these two ovals here and this one here if I got the puppy paw formation Yeah, the the inverted puppy paw Yeah, and that kind of stuff just slows down the game like yep you Put him in if there's only six of them like jeez louise Well, bud, you know if these are two mini mag tray, I think that he could probably help you out there Yeah, use discount mini mag bro five percent off you have to and yeah And you have to assume that you're attacking into like a perfectly formed rank to be able to do that Yeah, so that's my change Uh, okay, so is the change here. I'm gonna I'm gonna push you a little as well, bud. Here we go I'm gonna give you two options. Okay, okay Option number one the coherency stays largely the same but But And now instead of being like five or under you have kind of old school coherency You need to be within you know an inch of a person right It goes to up to six Okay, and the reason I pick six is not just to you know arbitrarily right obviously there are just a lot of units that are Base three and reinforce into sixes pigs and Flares and a hundred other things in the game right storm fiends Zangor and gluttons. Yeah, sure. Yeah zangor. Yep of of the of both disc writing variety You know like three to six is a is a just pretty popular thing. Okay. That's option one Option two is we say up to 11 Okay, so at 11 You're 32 mil guys and all those types people they can now string back out again effectively Right, so they become like they like but it's capped it at I say 11 Just because to take it one over because of odd things that would happen Um, yeah war cry war bands war cry war bands and bliss bar barters and just you know weird stuff, right? um the So basically at 11 or less you have an inch of one so so little dudes can spread out Basically, they would have about the same footprint as for currently five Cav models right because that's what everybody likes to use their chaff now is just you take five calf models They're all tokyo drifting sideways like they're like they're in doing some kind of parade In front of your army before the the battle right and that would be about the same space as your as your 10 guys on 25s Or 32s roughly it's not exactly but it's roughly Okay, wow All right, my gut so initially my gut was saying six But now hearing you explain that um I would almost be willing to try your idea. You're just that convincing Well, I wasn't trying to lead to lead you your way, but but i'm glad it worked. No Is that why his name spins? I got it. Is he yeah, that was that was really good. I enjoyed that one Now Tristan, where are you falling? What do you want to see if you were gonna where would you vote on this? Well, if I was gonna pick this as a thing such as whenever I submitted the things that I was picking to you Vince um whenever I pick coherency, I would say um either lock it to six or have that it needs to be a um Reinforced units to get the coherency rule. So if like you have a basic 11 as your number if you're not reinforced you don't have to care about that And since you're reinforcing your unit you're already taking on the like trash panda that is dealing with the coherency rules That was kind of my thought was sure. I mean, I think what we all don't want to see is is 30 man conga lines Right, that's just ugly and stupid and awful What I do want to see though is 10 man cav units and none of this salt Well, if you went to if you went to 10 Uh, you you would certainly have whatever you'd stop to be within an inch No of one mart Oh, yeah, so you have a little school coherency up to 10 Okay, as vince said and as who was at amusing parks joked in the chat this coherency goes to 11 Yeah, like yeah, so like one past 10 Indeed. Yeah, so your standard 10 man cav models for hex wraiths or blood knights or black knights or whatevs, okay Hellstriders we can keep going. I don't know why I don't know who I don't know who in the world is reinforcing Hellstriders or seekers there's gotta be some lunatic out there. It's the eels. The eels are the worst But you know eels are in threes so they're they're well in they're fine. Okay, because because the minimum I think is six Okay And so to me I'll tell you I would just set it back to to 11 and just call it a day my personal take like I love the change but And the reason is just let 10 dudes stand in a picket line. It's fine. Great. Who cares? It Whatever I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about you know, like I'm what I'm worried about is 2030 morons. Yeah doing this Around the board Who would do that? You every single game I ever played against you Uh, yeah every single game time literally every game come on tim. Yeah being fries are done God damn it tad All right, so universal enhancements from Dayton uh coherency From bud tristan europe what do you got? Well, I was going to say coherency, but um, I'm actually going to ship gears and say rally rally should Never be on a four up for you And it should be max on a five up for those special Beautiful piece of chaos lovers everywhere. Um Because 50% yeah, whatever. It's all it's all fire slayers. Um, there's a cane Yeah, see there's so many armies that don't need a four up rally that have a four up rally And they seem to give this out really inequitously. I would add not and there's no there's no Speaking of coherency. There's no coherency to the story of who is getting this enhanced rally okay so the The stormcast what vanquishers or whatever a melee unit that exists in in fives So five 10 15 of these guys right Can rally on a five up Okay, yeah because because they're so brave Vincent. They're so brave Meanwhile, but that's but that's a specific unit bonus right sylvaneth have bug writers just Elf wood people on bugs Who can rally on a five up again because now maybe the argument there is their kind of life oriented. So Sure, I guess whatever They pop the chrysalis who knows but it's unit specific The thing that drives me up the wall and back down the other side is the daughter's a cane rule or Uh, the fire slayers thing where it's just like a banner effect or something like that or a commander effect Where it's just like anybody in this range go ham, baby Whatever unit you got just go nuts Everybody seven whistelves coming back. Yeah Turns out they're laying down zangor enlightened coming back. Yeah Yeah, exactly Yeah, because to me this should be something that Should never have been given out like that Like it should have like since we're not giving out reinforcement points all willy-nilly Like maybe this should have been the way for the horde armies to be able to like Have the rein like the reinvention the refilling of their ranks Like it should have been given to scaven in my mind It doesn't make any sense to me that fire slayers would get it or daughters of cane like yeah, or or gets Well gets almost makes sense because that's like how they refresh how they're almost over 40% win right now I mean the game is broken. So close. They're gonna get there, buddy Uh, we lost Tristan again. He'll be back. I just broke Tristan. You broke Tristan. Yeah, I mean I The first of all, I completely agree. I'm I'm interested in other people's thoughts But I completely agree on the four up rally That should be almost a third rail that we just never touch Because that is the restoration of so many models We tightly control summoning At this point now like most armies aren't overcharged summoning like we saw earlier in the game Like most armies have really controlled summoning now if they have a summoning mechanic I say most because boc still exists in its current form Uh, but that's you know, whatever. They're one of the most winningest armies in the game right now I guess so good on you Not with me. I tried to keep that down. I tried guys. Yeah Um, they went from bottom of the barrel to top of the pile just like that uh So the uh I don't have a problem with a four up On very specific occasional units with other criteria if that unit is a melee focused unit And they are effectively trash That would be the only way I could see myself through. So what I mean by that is like, um Gore like base. Yeah, sure gore Absolutely regular gore not on gore gore Okay, that would actually give that unit a reason to exist for the first time in an all of age of sigmar Regular gits in their current form, right? They're like around their little place and if it's now I'd prefer it be limited to like the melee gits But it's not like I'm that afraid of shooters. I mean it is what it is But like that kind of stuff Very specific where it's tagged to a particular unit in a particular circumstance Like if they're near this thing or doing this thing and all of the rally rules like they especially melee only units Shooting units should just never be in this space It's nonsense for 14 bow snakes vince, right? Yeah Yeah, it's like killed your unit of 15 bow snakes down to six. Oh, yay six came back great fantastic That's exactly what I wanted to see All right That's that's obviously nonsense. It's obviously nonsense And meanwhile you've got clan you've got you've got some armies over here doing this on a four-up And as you said you got scaven over here like their clan rats big restore thing is a d3 models per turn Which is fine by the way, you know, it gets fine. I enjoy that. It's a perfectly fine rule That's how that stuff should be working So yeah, I'm with you Tristan. I think that's you took a you took a left turn into into into victory there Let me just say that with that Yeah Don't forget cross booze Sure. Everyone forgets cross booze Uh cross booze no more. Yeah, nobody does so it's fine um it's we we we we we as a we as a society Decided that cross booze are not worth discussing They are sort of the iggy azalea of the mortal realms. We just that was there It was a lot of conversation around it for about five minutes And then we all just decided we didn't need to worry about it anymore and we were done with it Okay, yeah, but they nailed it so well for gossamer archers. They would like yeah, I can consider that never goes booze They they what they did was they created a partnering unit to the glaive race stalkers Uh, and you sure they don't know what I'm talking about Which is what my point is Yeah, exactly. I I I mean I saw a lot in a lot of knight hunt armies at nash con Didn't see a lot of cross booze It's all zero of them as a matter of fact, but at any rate All right, tom what's your change it? Battle tactics, I'm gonna do it I hate them. I hate them. I hate the play experience that battle tactics generate Every game ends up being the same experience of me stressing through battle tactics I don't care what the scenario is scenario doesn't matter like It's me trying to figure out what battle tactics because ultimately your battle tactics are what wins the tournaments wins events It isn't doing scenarios. You're gonna like It's do you get all your battle tactics points or basically all going 25 for 25 over the course of a tournament Right, like that like that's actually what matters for an event So it doesn't matter often if you go fight a no If you don't actually get all your tactics, then you're not going to actually put Not now that's not always but but it's it is often enough that it It is a it just creates a terrible play experience for myself Like the the pressure that I feel is it the analysis paralysis also weighing on you Yeah, uh, yes. Yes, because I'm trying to juggle playing my army But playing my army isn't good enough because I have to actually play the tactics Oh Ted I got it for you. Have you considered getting good? I hear I hear that matters. I I hear that matters, but but then people play things like Daughters of Cain and they don't need to be good. They can just do their tactics automatically I can agree with you just because you piled on Daughters of Cain now Yes, I mean so my critique is simply that Um, it creates a what what feels like to me a stale game experience Okay, because everything is driven by the battle tactics All right, what's funny about this one is I think there's people bothered by this on two different interesting ends of the spectrum like you're a Extremely skilled player. I don't want to inflate your ego too high But you are generally on the top tables at the end of tournaments in round five Go look at table like one two three or four and tom is going to be on one of those tables in most tournaments I've ever been to with him most now you did get your butt absolutely kicked at when you tried to play Nagash at bruhammer, but other than that you've had you've got a very winning record. Okay, it happens big facts Okay, everybody has an off day. It's all good. Okay and you know, you're not coming at this from like a Casual player or something like that, right? You're saying no no as a competitive tournament player I don't like these they fill me with dread. There's analysis paralysis and I feel like if I drop one one of these stupid things because of some Circumstances that might be outside of my control, right? Does it feel like it's pain with a lock hanging on your neck weighing you down? So that was a reference to a night haunt model. Yeah, no, I got I got it. I got it No, it feels like it feels like a goose wrapped around a trombone through his rib cage It creates your trombone game. Thanks And and maybe my issue is this I do this like I have the same tactics functionally that I end up doing every game And so it makes every game feel exactly the same because I'm basically doing the same things every single game and often the same order or very similar order Um, and so like the scenarios most of the time isn't what matters. It's actually Sequencing the battle tactics appropriately. Sure You know, he's going to be the you're almost always going to use the same for the fifth one might alter a bit It's just what sequence are you doing them in that's going to be appropriate for this game? Yeah, it's just not interesting to me Like it's not and it's nowhere near what secondary objectives used to be or could be at some events um, and so I just like It's just it's complexity. It feels like it's complexity for complexity's sake That's all it's doing is weeding out certain skill level players It's like you have to be this high in order to actually play the game in in on the top 10 percent of it I mean, certainly at the casual end, I could imagine the same The same issue being launched of somebody who isn't as familiar with the game going I've got to read all these fresh every time. I don't have the eight of these locked in my mind I face a lot of analysis paralysis and just understanding which one I can even do right So, okay all right Wait, are you going to ask him what the change is? Do you already got to ask him what he? Yeah, I mean what? Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I am. What is the change Tom? Like our like what are you changing this to? Because you're not doing this and kill it you're doing it and change it So you want some concept of this to stay around are we changing the scoring system? Are we changing the battle tactics in some way? What's going on here? No, I mean honestly if it were up to me You can go one of two ways. Okay You do No, I know how I would change it. I would move through a secondary objective system Where back to once once per game per tournament Um, and maybe you so imagine Basically, it would be a variable of the grand strat system Are you just talking schemes what we used to use in ash con kind of kind of But so imagine that you have seven choices. You can only do one each game You have to choose before the game. It can be a hidden decision Right And you have to rotate through a number of them. So it's like old secondary objectives in that sense But the key is is that um, where your grand strat would remain the same every round Your secondary or your tactic would have to change everything Okay Okay, how would I play a one-off game then? Like would I just get the pick? Yeah, like outside the tournament. It's a great question. Sure. Sure Just like so just so to have with a casual like monday night game It would just be like you have two grand strategies Or or if it was a monday night game, you would have a d6 and you would roll it ice Uh, and and it's randomly determinants because again, if you're just doing a fun game What you do is you randomly determine what your grand strats are speaking to the game Why not a deck of cards? Well, but but my point being that like have have something that is rotating And have something that is static Because again in the current system, it's just reproducing very similar play basically everywhere Okay All right, interesting. Do you feel like that's just based on how you build the list? because I know I've Had a decent variety even in my list like for me It's like I have a core three that I pick from and then it's like what off the wall two other options Do I have? So it's like I kind of have my plan for each round almost set early game But then it's like well, I'm gonna be able to kick this these objectives or whatever So, yeah, is it a question of just like the way you like to build lists or is it just No funds bill I don't know. I think I'd have to think about it. Okay Because there are other options here The other options here besides what you're saying is you could keep battle tactics being around And sort of every round thing But they could all be contained in the specific battle plan There could just be a limited number of them like let's say there's two in each battle plan And you know when you do them or you complete them you get the points Right, maybe some of them are repeatable. Some of them aren't whatever whatever But both players are then using from the same thing and they're battle plan specific in there There's something that's been tailored and tooled to the specific layout setup experience of that particular Battle plan, right? So that would be a way it could be done Yeah, the tournament I just played in that I got best overall Um They uh, they didn't allow battle tactics. So we just used all the ones out of the GHB Which is exactly the correct choice. You have a that was a good to right there But but it was doing exactly what I'm critiquing Which is it it creates a very static play experience where you're going to do the same for And then another one based on whatever the the exigent exigent Factors are of the scenario It's a very cute dog He's a very quiet dog. I thought I'd get him on camera. I mean part of the counter is you know Like if if you know like generally would you say, you know, which tactics your opponent is going after as well Yeah, but the my ability to actually deny those is fair is often infrequent The the current design doesn't have a lot of count a huge amount of play in it So then so then the design the design would need to be where there's more Designed in a way that Others could be denied more easily But when but when but in the challenge here is that they are selected and fulfilled On a player's turn where you often don't have counter play, right? So that's where 40k they have some where it's at the end of the battle round That like secondaries are scored rather than at the end of your turn or they're only scored at the beginning Like in what would be the hero phase So you've got to survive to your next turn and so on. Yeah, you have to survive So you score those you score those secondaries at the start of your at the start of your turn So you have to have held it through an opponent's turn. We have things we can play already with redeploys Yeah, sure. There's some play but like I've You redeploy you a lot of defense that kind of stuff. Sure rally Yeah, yeah On four ups twice. I mean uh best day ever, right? You know somebody somebody like you wait for your opponent to The old one was you waited for your opponent to call sleigh the warlord or something and you best day ever in response, right? Or you know that kind of thing, but I think that's a good point that it's hard to deny like battle tactics that like it's not I think I don't know That popped into my head about the 40k and about this the start of the next turn That would be a very interesting thing to try out So All right, good stuff. I think there's I think there's a lot of ways you could go with it. I think there's well, well I would think it needs to change regardless. I think it needs to change Sure, like if there's ever something I've wanted to survey on in 3.0 I think it's completely about it like I really want to do a survey on some different elements of the game here soon And one of them is absolutely like I have a ton of questions around battle tactics and people's feeling on it I'm just I'm so curious as to how people feel about this in the in the broader AOS world Okay, cool beans My change it. You ready? Here's my change it heroic actions and monstrous rampages both have a problem They are designed wrong Uh, and they and one of them happens at a wrong time. So I'm going to fix them. Here we go. You ready? Uh, here's how they work now. Is it two choices? What do you mean? No, this is they're the same ish thing They're both a thing. They're both like, you know, heroic actions and monstrous rampages are the same thing Vince's face is on the youtube channel. He can do his his face. I'm looking at the icon right now It's my face. It's me from like a long time ago. Uh, so the Here's how they work now. You ready? Roll a die On a three up pick one of the things off the table You can do that thing. They both work like that Okay So if we have to redesign how some of them work, I don't care fine Like if you need to make some better or some worse irrelevant, all right But they all work like that period So you're annoyed by some being two up some being four up some being three ups One is a bravery test. One is this one is automatic. This is a three up. This is a two up But there's a worse change here. The worst thing is that they're they're they're completely designed backwards You make the choice sort of first Then you roll the die to see if you actually do it See in game design, that's a cardinal sin Because you've wasted people's time if they fail the roll If you switch it to where you make the roll first and then you make the decision Then in the fail case i.e. you roll a two or one no decision is made No time is wasted you roll the die got a two no heroic action good moving on Done Okay in the same way that when a charge you can't really eyeball you just say you know what it's not any measures Let's see what I roll Exactly like okay Yep Oh many act you're late, baby. That was in our keep it. I I'm the one who picked that Sorry, I knew I was I was wondering if you were going to be around scott Yes, I I voted a hard keep it on the priority roll there my dog Yeah, um, but scott, you know, it's nothing Now he's getting into it man. He's getting into it. He and uh, uh, he and his his, uh He and his buddy a couple other friends. They're starting up an escalation league. I'm super excited for him You need to tell me That mini act will actually play the age of sigmar absolutely I'm I can't wait for him to show up and just kick the kick my butt here in in in december I I have no doubt you know skill right up um so uh the So anyways, we switch it around you roll the die first first then only if you succeed Do you then have to make a choice and by the way all the choices will be now relatively balanced against that three out I don't care what it is right like sure you heal you Uh, you get a bonus command point you get a bonus unbind or something like that Like make it so you get a bonus unbind with a plus one bonus there Now it's worth rolling a die for as opposed to the automatic thing it is now like I don't care whatever right That's that's an that's like an engineering problem to work out later Same with the monstrous rampages. They're all just on a three up It's not stomp as a two and roar is a three and this thing is automatic and This one's on a three up, but only if you're near terrain and just like stop it stop all of that. That's nonsense And and And monstrous rampages move their timing Okay Because right now they happen at literally lift the worst tur Uh, lee the worst time in the entire game They happen in between the two highest moments of tension Okay in the entire game Which is charge rolls And the start of combat Yeah The reason you played warhammer probably And sat down and decided to play this game Was because you pictured you charging your awesome unit into their unit and then fighting Right like that was a thing you thought about I don't care if it's your tomb cane chariots or Uh your pigs You know you're you're you're just rolling in with six pigs or your maw crusher or whatever doesn't matter The charge roll is a high suspense high action moment The start of combat is a high action high suspense moment because you get a fight. Yes, finally I get a fight I'm gonna kill you Bah punch your face Right It's the most violent I've ever seen you win and because it's an exciting moment Yeah, absolutely and I love that like that's a fun moment when you land that charge like god There is nothing greater in this life Well, there are a few things but one of the great things in this life is landing a charge with a mega with a tooled up mega Boss on maw crusher into something that you have no business landing it into and then just watching him go Pick up your toys pick every toys mate. Those are gone. Those are gone now Okay I for I am the end of all that is you And it's great. So monsters rampages happened in the middle of that like as though they were if you were trying to put them Somewhere in the game that you would forget them. You would put them right there That's the perfect choice Okay, so what are we gonna do? We're just gonna move them to the start of the combat phase which doesn't seem like that big of a change But now that there's not like now that asf always strikes first people are separated from start of the combat phase effects Okay At the start of the combat phase start of phases is fine Because most people have like we already have in our brains at the start of phase We do various checks some command abilities fire at the start of the combat phase like things happen at the start of phases Start a hero phase start of this thing. That's a that's a known quantity. Yeah, you're already thinking about that Right. I'm thinking about the stuff I have to do at the start of the phase Right your aos reminders. That's the point where you go. Oh, yeah Right exactly. Yeah And so Right there, it's it's it is like almost literally a nothing move in timing in the game But it makes all the difference in the world to you remembering them So I like there you go. I mean those those are my changes shift it to the to that point. I mean, right right I'll keep the twos the threes the fives the six the like whatever like, I mean just move it to there Right, I like it Okay, so that's change it Now we go to one quick. I'm gonna add one really quick change Hit me Some uh, this was from arrested waffle house in the chat that I saw that I really liked But changing the look I would serve rules that so that they're more like 40k To protect some of those smaller heroes from getting sniped off really quick I would be okay with it as long as it was on the scroll like I would be okay if certain units have that ability Sure. Yeah, I wouldn't want a core rule because too many little heroes that are powerful utility buffs are like mega ramps to the units they're around Yeah, exactly like the last thing we need is unkillable skank priests like I'm sorry Did you want seraphon to go back up to like a 75 win rate? They weren't strong enough yet I have a solution for that. Let's just keep waiting. Sure. Okay so Now it's time for kill it Ah, yes now Now we call out to corn and we cry Of for for blood for the blood god as we scream These are the things we should kill the irredeemable things that should be killed from the game Forever thrown into the ash bin of history never to be seen again. There are skulls added to the skull throne of corn's rules Okay Tristan you're up first and kill it. What are you killing? Ocear bone vreep. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, we can't say two kings. We already did that Tristan the step Okay, like after that gigantic build up this eulogy I'm about to spiel off is for the stepped angled deployments Throw them out. I don't want to do protractor math. I don't want to do any of this dumb stuff Get it out. Get it out. Get it out. I don't know I feel like I'd spend more time doing that like dip dip dip dip dip dip with all the dice Then I do actually like thinking about my deployment half the time with my army It's asinine. It doesn't have to exist Why do you write rules like that? Just give me the actual boxes that I actually have to play It's always been dumb. It just has to change like just fire like Get like load the greyhound cannon and fire bully bully I say to that Uh, that is Absolutely correct every time I see one of those ridiculous deployments Especially when they start touching each other and then you've got to do like the nine inch Half moons in the multiple squares. I'm just like get this crap out of here. This is ridiculous Why is that? Why are you like this? Like you could have just drawn a line It could have just been a line It's fine At no point in my life. Did I think the the this is my simple deployment area was a problem You know, you can do it this way. You can do it this way. You can you can great. Okay, cool You know, you can have it be the whole table and nine inches like half and half and nine inches back. That's fine That's okay. I'm good. Why are you doing this to me? You can have the box corner to box corner I'm okay with that one where we're just off the center point nine inches Like the box or the quarter table quarter to table quarter, you know, I'm talking about like this one That one's fine. Those are all good. You got many valid deployments that aren't Rejected tetris options Thank you Tristan. Thank you Thank you. I'm here for you advanced I appreciate that all right Dayton what's your kill it? Uh just that kill it um Slaying things outright shouldn't be in the game In my opinion. Okay more happy player It's uh, hey, I don't die ever Um, it's a feel bad moment it based on one die roll or archeons two Or purple sun as we saw Which can still slay things out, right? It's just there's nothing. I don't get to roll die. I don't get to do nothing You just kill me Okay, will you allow any oxygen in here? Is there any daylight? Okay. Yes. Nagash's hand of dust is Awesome, and I I still love that because there's theatrics to involved into it because it's a fun minigame where you're like Choose your destiny, right that sort of thing. There it is. That's it. Okay. Yeah Yeah, for me. I think it's one of those again I think slayout writes one of those third rails that like it's okay in Very controlled specific scenarios like for example, the lord of corn guy who can kill people with his reality splitting axe on a five up That's kind if he wounds them. That's fun. That's a good thing with the puppy Yeah, like that's a fun thing on a on a Not that impressive model, you know, I'd like his the model is awesome Like the actual model model. I just mean like getting across the table Yeah, like on a slow moving walking foot hero that's got to like move his five inches of turn over to you And then punch you in the face Right like okay. I can see that I can see that. All right Yeah, could that that that be then turned into just a better damaging weapon It could I think but I think that the the reason for it is that it does provide like a high tension high suspense moment In there, which does have some value Okay Yes Bud what's your pick? Good pick day. I I I bandied around. I thought about Getting rid of unkillable models, which is really funny that David would say get rid of auto killing stuff Just because I hate I hate Marathi so much listen I've traumatized these two co-hosts a party of the all points with my daughter's a cane that It's a common talking point. Sure. Yeah. Um, I thought of uh Just vicious shooting that happens, but I think I'm gonna have to stick with uh save stacking Because I'm tired of having minus two rend and and a model still having a two up save Okay, all right, so so are we just but this is part of kill it So are you just getting rid of like all bonuses to save like just the most you can ever add is plus one it just becomes like Like it just becomes like pluses to hit or wound or or or or anything like that Yeah, I would say so what Yeah, I think about that a little more because Like I like I like the The to hit rules where you can never have more than plus or minus one off your bay if you're printed number. Yeah um Yeah Screw it. I've had hot takes all evening. Get rid of save stacking. Okay. All right very good Well, I won't push it to our because there's probably like we've talked about it before and there's probably 10 ways You could you could eliminate save stacking in various and sundry ways um The one that I was always a fan of was just you can't ever push it below like three up basically Um, unless it's printed on your scroll that you that you have a two up Uh, because then you still stand a reasonable chance of dying Like the difference between a three up save and a two up save is pretty high Uh, it's statistically very relevant Uh, all right, tom what's your kill it? Seraphon Just the army All of it just gone all of it How many examples over the course of this show? Uh-huh have taken shots at skinks Or engine of the gods Or some other seraphon ridiculousness Now to be clear. Are we literally jetting this jettison? Are we are we packing them all onto one of their dinosaurs? Don't take away the dinosaurs And sailing off into the sky Extinction is coming. Okay. Got it. So that's it. No more seraphon ever. No, it's a bad line Okay, like the models are terrible like croak is acceptable. Okay um I just gone That's it. I'm like I've never had a good game against seraphon Just out jesson ever ever ever They've been problematic and basically every incarnation whether it's reducing damage or teleporting and summoning An alpha striking just it's bad So let's clarify this so it's the rules that are offending you but not the models. No, no the models are too They're ugly looking models Like he's he's going all in on this. Yeah, like they still have models from 99 Get all of it gone You're trying to tell me that you don't like the razor don That is up with the tad Gone This is the this isn't gonna take the award for the flamingest take of the night, uh for sure Hey, oh Bye seraphon Wow jettisoning an entire army. Okay. Okay Yeah flying in the face of the we're gonna keep all the armies, right? Yes, one of my keep its was all the army stay tom's swooping in and just being like nah I feel calm and reasonable now all but this one Make it doors that all look the same. You're fine. Yeah, you guys are in Unique dinosaurs of all types. No, no, that's that's the cool dinosaurs writing dinosaurs who have lasers And and spaceships ugly Going Just guy rock it up now Yeah, uh, I don't know that I will accept Okay to to Vince to Vince. No, I I will accept a reimagining Okay, so you're willing to not jettison them if tomorrow basically we really go into the entire line And come out of the new book Yeah, like we're moving into the cretaceous period like what was is no longer got it The Jurassic is over. I'm talking about reimagining armies before like that was his keep like the armies in the rollout Really what it was is I just want them to work on seraphon as quickly as possible Wow, that's truly it Yeah, I see your plan now you just you had you had all your battle plan tactics ideas planned throughout the whole show Yep, lined it up knocking down. His name is the diver was Listen, he had lined the site to the seraphon the whole time. Yep, and he just had to blow it up there at the end See how it is I don't know after seeing a skink eating a hash brown from McDonald's on twitter today. That's I'm falling in love with that faction again Okay, all right Uh, we're gonna have a little quick lightning around here So think of your by the way at the end of this one So think of your other things you want to you want to kill because there's probably a there's probably a good Good swath of little things we can pick Okay But mine is going to be simple Uh, my kill it Is battle tactics to make them appear in every single choice Of this entire Game It is battle tactics. I don't like them. I don't need them. I don't want them. I'm not going to try to change it You give me some new system. It's completely different. It's so different. We're not doing the same thing I'm fine with any kind like we're going to make a new secondary system of some kind something else I'm playing with but it isn't called battle tactics. It doesn't look like battle tactics Jettison them into the sun I I don't want them Uh, so there we go. That's that's nothing I look forward to more vents than rolling dice with you next month and us not having to worry about battle tactics at all Yeah, sure Now if i'm fair if if I want to if I want to take the the the software version of my hot take, okay Then it would be yes To be fair, uh Then I would say restrict the battle tactics to like the a particular match to play battle pack and have a standard battle pack that is for people who Everybody else I guess who doesn't want them Uh, that has no battle tactics in it. I will accept that as a fallback as your your talk your discussion of Like I want the standard battle pack of the game of like, hey, guess what? This is just warhammer. Just let's play warhammer. Okay We're gonna strip out a lot of nonsense like we talked about in the simplified battle tactics Those don't need battle tactics in them Right next to the path of glory. You want the battle attack? Yeah Oh, we'll get to you path of glory. Okay So there you go. That's my that's my uh, that's my my kill it Uh, I I would be willing to accept them being unmade Uh, but but but I'll also soften to just making them go stand over in a separate room where I don't have to see them That's okay too It's fine either way Okay, uh, we'll keep a path glory company. All right Uh Let's talk lightning round. All right. Who's got some other hot picks? We can just toss them out Detristan go the app the app output from the age of sigmar app kill it into the sea Yes dead instantly. Who's got another one? paintpots Pots are switched for dropper bottles got it. That's done. Okay. We killed it, but if you got anything else, what do you got? Oh, man, I just I'm such a loving person and I love everything um I don't know Okay, I've got one murathi murathi Just murathi. I like her. She's she's great. Don't don't let dating traumatize you like that. Okay. I got one for you here. All right uh The it just flew right out of my head. Sorry. Oh hero face fighting hero face fighting Like that. Okay. Now. I will allow it in small increments under very controlled circumstances Just like the rally thing, right? But no more just generic and certainly all hero all hero face shooting. That's gone That's out of that's there. No exceptions. That's completely gone. Yeah hero face fighting I will allow a little bit here and there on very specific units where it would make absolute sense How about movement during your opponent's phase? Right That's redeploy. Yes. No. No. I'm talking about like actual like 12 inch or 14 inch movement Yes, I love my fox move. Don't do this to me. All right. Tom. What's your what's your hot? What's your hot kill? What's your lighting round kill? You got another one uh quirky uh Metta shifting six month ghb. Yes year long g Hb's make it happen. We don't want this six month thing Stop it. Stop it like Like and not only that but like this one was like Gv so this unit and plus one damage and just like the whole meta was like This is a new thing now, right? And as soon as that goes away with gvs and fighting in two ranks and all that like assuming it doesn't at the six month mark, but like It's just such a dramatic Uh turnover for such a short period of time Okay, good. I got I got a couple more. I got a couple more. I thought I thought of one Rules that don't let you pile in Oh Stopping pile in okay. Yeah. No, I played a lot and I played a lot of nerd all this summer It's just dumb. Okay. Very good. Here's one. I got one ready Mistcast miscast not the not the not the podcast the thing Miscast the podcast can stay Miscast the thing that happens That shouldn't uh because it's silly and doesn't need to be there and it's an extra rule And it's we we got through we went through two editions just fine We all understood that that was a thing that used to happen in the game And then we moved on So great, but the gash really double ones on the first one is so much fun It is hilarious. Yes, but uh pretty dumb uh Brian s says Uh, I can't believe nobody mentioned the terrible terrain rules in the attire show Totally fair call brian s. You're absolutely right. I would have put that hard into the change Uh section that was that was absolutely up there in my changes like terrain needs a change a big overhauls each Needs to come in and just be like yes. I I I have gifted the Okay, very good, uh incarnates are we gonna are we have to talk about incarnates? Yeah, I mean absolutely Yeah, like how did we get how did we get through this? Without touching them kill them The FAQ didn't because you guys you guys used your killets on on stuff that made me feel bad the Stuff that made me feel bad I will accept incarnates in their appropriate narrative battle packs where they belong where that's like the thing Like the thondia incarnate in the thondia battle pack where he's a thing and he's referenced and you know he you get like Battle tactics around messing with incarnates and stuff like that. Yeah, sure great fine My low grade hopeium for them is that they are going to change it. It's just going to come the battle scroll It's going to come like next week or the week after or whatever. So that's my hope we can map easily is really annoyed with that answer Matt Beasley He's the incarnate king Uh speaking of another thing I see on my table way too often. Yes incarnates incarnates backed up by People with arcane tones. How fun. Okay, cool Uh, well, oh go for it. Yeah hit me one last one close us out Tristan All right, the monolithic culture of the death grand alliance. I hate it. It's stupid There needs to be a duality at least like there needs to be some tension to this whole thing Like we're in this for the story If all is negash and negash is a dumbass then I don't want to have to listen to him I like give me back the middle finger throwing like Skeletons the fact that they just keep printing accountants is boring. Yep. I don't want that It's all just middle management and in death at this point. Yeah Uh, like the u.s. Healthcare system could not agree more Tristan what a wonderful thing to end on my last one. Nope. Nope. We're gonna Faction terrain You want to kill all faction? I want to kill all faction terrain Arrested at Waffle House already said don't take my null holes and pizza ovens. Yeah Says the says the dock player By the way, arrested at Waffle House. I just want to state that's one of the best user names I've ever seen in my entire existence. That is an incredible name on youtube. So A plus All right, okay, negash he sucks Uh Yeah, I I Don't know if I can back that one Dayton, but I'm certainly behind the the tension within death. Yes. Or at least like Terrain faction that takes up a quarter of the board So we're specifically just targeting the basically gloom spike gets thing and the OBR thing now is what I'm hearing And seraphon Still mad that they never shipped you that Did you ever get it? We'll see no Gw just never shipped. I printed one. That was mad. He didn't get it That's funny. All right. Good stuff gentlemen Absolute pleasure as always we'll see we'll see if any of our recommendations ideas uh insane ramblings Are picked up in either future ghbs or in we'll know in 2024 when Fourth edition comes out, you know, I wanted I wanted to get this on the record now So we can be we we can be ready. We can be here and say we can shape We can shape the future. That's right. We're shaping fourth edition right now. Yes No doubt. All right bud Dayton tristan gentlemen Absolute pleasure as always. Thank you so much Yeah, you'd like insane ramblin. Just check out part of the old points We've been around for almost three years now. Yeah Uh party at the all points is also linked below. Go check it out Listen, you can get much more of these three fine Upstanding incredible gentlemen in your ear holes Uh, but only in the safe and consensual way. So Yes, we love your relationship. We we ask in the start of every episode. Absolutely as as one would have lost your life Thanks for having us on vince. Absolutely Uh for all of you out there Who are watching thank you so much Really appreciate it. Don't forget to hit like hit that button I haven't said at the whole show because I'm very bad at this There's been a lot of you watching this whole show A lot of you and so many of you have not yet hit the like button And it's so easy. Look at how easy it is to click that little button. You just click it Every like gets a meow. Yeah, click it like meow. Do the meow click You know be be cool like your friends and hit that button So like subscribe do all those fun youtube things Uh, we really appreciate it. Don't forget. There's a patreon if you want to support the channel down below Uh, let's focus on hobby and taking your next step in your hobby journey. There's a merch store down there Where uh, you can place your vote for team tom Or tim I guess as it is Versus team tyler. Uh, we're going to total that at the end of the year and see who's see who's sold more merch Determining who is the better co-host in the only way that the modern world knows how which is through capitalism and uh There's all sorts of other fun stuff down there all the links we mentioned earlier and pick of the week are down there too So go check all of that out Uh, but as always thank you so much for watching And we'll see you next wednesday Love warhammer wednesdays