 This is Bill Doyle on Vermont issues and I'm such a special guest that I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself My name is Pamela Root. I live in Montpelier I've lived here for 25 years and I work with Bill Doyle a little bit and I had an interesting experience the past six months Watching the drones flying around Montpelier. So we talked about it and Bill Gave me some good suggestions on who to call. I called the mayor You know and this these are the questions that Bill has about it so that I Can introduce to you some information And so Pam thanks for that introduction and did you introduce yourself? I did that's good Now that's how many drones have you seen in the past? Six months. I've seen about ten different drones and do you find what a drone is? well a drone is if people don't know about it, it's Controlled flying vehicle sometimes it has a camera on it and people on the ground can control it and maneuver it around a lot of Colleges use drones as a you know and the tourist industry uses them to create you know Films that have information about the college campus or the city of Montpelier But there are over a million Hobby drones in the country and those are just the ones that are registered So it's probably double that so there are these hobby drones owned by sometimes 10 and 12 year old children flying around all the all the United States without having to be really registered and That's what I've been seeing around Montpelier. I live in a house that's Wide open so it's a it's like an enticement to any kind of drone that wants to check out somebody's somebody's house and I've seen at least ten drones in the last five to six months Are you aware legislation in the rest of the country in other states having to do drones? Well actually I Did find out that there was a case in Newton mass Where the city of Newton wanted to? Outlaw drones completely they had an ordinance ordinance against it and there was somebody who challenged it an individual citizen of Newton and everybody all the other municipalities around the country were waiting to see how that judge What what he found? And he well he found in favor of the guy who challenged the city of Newton so there are no precedents for ordinances anywhere in the country right now I Did call? And Watson the mayor of Montpelier and she called me back and we had a great conversation She said that the FAA It's it's illegal to fly within six miles of an airport According to the FAA laws so that puts Montpelier within that parameter of six miles so any drone flying around in the city of Montpelier is already illegal from that perspective, but She doesn't think that the FAA is going to file You know any suits against all these millions of drones flying around mentioned registration you've ever seen that registration seats What are they asking these well that the registration the way and Watson put it was if there are a million Registered which is you just go and you fill out a piece of paper, and there's I don't even think there's a fee Then there's another million that aren't registered because Oftentimes people are giving these to their children as Christmas presents or birthday presents You know a drone to kind of play with so I think that's probably where a lot of The problems are coming from but we haven't gotten to the real problems where Even though I've seen them flying I live on the second floor apartment and There was one time that a drone came within five to ten feet of my windows, and I called the police immediately Which was the second phone call to the police and I spoke to a policewoman. I don't remember her name. She was very informative She also said that the police were very concerned because these are they're not obligated to be registered She said they're one of their concerns is that these drones and and I have to qualify this I've never seen one before 11 11 30 at night and I actually have a friend who saw one at 2 o'clock in the morning when she went to the bathroom in the middle of the night and So I I don't have any reportings of them other than between 11 30 and 230 in the morning. So these these drones are being flown at night and They're coming. They're looking at people's windows. I mean That's very you put your shirt next to you put your shirt on Well, who knows they they could see you on the toilet or they could see you take coming out of the shower That's the privacy issue, isn't it? Well, it is a privacy issue, but I guess the law states That the only time that you can destroy a drone is if you can grab it No, how are you going to do that on the second story? but Yeah, the police are concerned about it as well They said from a perspective like like a drone can go up to windows and and flash a light a camera light And see if they people's beds are empty. So they could be casing a house for a robbery You know, that's one major concern Actually, I've spoken to three different three different times to the police The third time was up. She was giving tickets out on Berry Street And we just happened to grab her to ask her some questions and when we said, what do you know about the drones? She said, oh, do you live in the Liberty East East State Street area? And yes, I live on East State Street and the other person I know who saw it at 2 o'clock in the morning lives on Liberty Street So she said yes, we did know about one incident and we We figured out who it was and we got that under control We think and what did you do and I asked them I asked that Well, how did you know where they were because these drones are operated? You know, I don't know exactly what the distance is and I think there's different kinds of drones that you can get some can go further away from the source and then others and anyway She said she couldn't divulge that information to me the police woman said that so I Think that that also I wanted to find out on a on a federal level what was going on so I Got a hold of a c-span Discussion that actually Patrick Leahy had had I think it was a year and a half ago and he was talking about how important it is to try to come up with some regulations around these drones and That you know, there's this privacy issue and that's certainly an issue, but there's also a safety issue. I would think you know, there's some And even if somebody's not doing anything in their bedroom that they wouldn't want anybody to see You know who wants somebody to be looking in any of your windows at any time and Maybe they are casing your house out to see if they can if anybody's home I don't know what else they could be used for it seems that you're Very clear that in your mind. It's an invasion of private privacy From my perspective, it's it's it's an invasion of privacy. I I Just feel like what I Asked and Watson. I said, yeah, if you were sitting on your toilet and you saw a drone outside the window How would you feel and she said well? I have all my curtains closed on the second floor Well, why have windows then if you're worried about some drone, you know Looking in your windows and watching you then, you know Why and and that you always have to close all the shades and the curtains because you're worried about an invasion of privacy On the second floor of your house. That's absurd So if I could have drawn come up to me and just snatched these notes out of my hand Um Probably there's a way they could do it if somebody had a high level drone. I mean Okay, think of this all the bombs that are being dropped in the Middle East are dropped from drones You know, that's another concern. What happens if a terrorist gets a hold of a of a drone and Sends it up in New York City or someplace. I mean there's all sorts of things that could happen with them And I don't I guess it's It's just how did we get here? How do we get to the point where there's 10 and 12 and 13 year old kids and potential robbers and terrorists that are allowed to fly these things without any Any any kind of Ordinance or anything against it. So what would you do to those people who do that have drones? Well, first of all, I think that it's sad that the the Newton Case didn't turn out the way the city of Newton wanted it to Because I guess that set a precedent, but I would I Would push that envelope there I would say this is a privacy issue and I would also couple it with the six mile radius Established by the FAA that where no flying drones can be legally flown And I would say I would I would incorporate an ordinance and I'd push it Maybe somebody in Montpelier is gonna sue the city for their ordinance I don't know but we have to start someplace. I'm gonna the drones get together and Say that the six reasons why the market is failing and and perhaps induce a selling wave Well one night I did see three drones at one time And I called my neighbors who are like in their 90s, and I said quick go out there There's three drones up in the sky. Well by the time they got there, you know, these things can move quickly These things can you know be there in in for five minutes and be gone in two minutes in a second Practically, it's not like it, you know, you can catch them very easily Even your bare hands. Have you ever done it go out one of your bare hands? I Thought about a slingshot I've thought about what you know, but but legally you can't do anything unless you can actually physically grab it Then you can just legally destroy it How many people are gonna be in that? spot, you know so they And Approximately what time do they see you? well, like I said earlier, I've never seen one before 11 o'clock at night and Well other than I have seen drones Around the 4th of July when the fireworks are going off There's often you'll see people should start looking out their windows more and up at the sky at night But if you watch the fireworks, they're always like two or three drones pretty close to the fireworks That's just having been having sleeveless nights Well, I did have one night actually that's an interesting question where I woke up and There was a drone out there flying around and I felt You know, I not my bathrooms on the other side of the house But I did feel really Unsettled is the word I I don't know how else disturbed I mean, how would you feel when they if there's a peeping Tom looking in your your window? You know, you find somebody that's very disturbing to think that someone's looking at you no matter What you're doing good. I asked him to go to another place. Yeah, you're disturbing me I Think the police might well, how would you find out who it was? You'd have to get go outside and try to figure out which location somebody is controlling it from because it's not like There's no connection between the drone other than a you know, like it's an electronic connection. So You know, I don't know how else to figure that out If you see them for 10 or 15 minutes, you say sometimes they hang around and say for half an hour an hour They move or they move around they they will I mean, obviously They're going around Liberty Street as I mean, I know from a friend who's at two o'clock in the morning and She watched them go across the street to the house across the street and look in their windows, too So, I mean, could it be a 12 year old? You know up at night. Yeah Yes, it could so there's no pattern where they could see them at night Two hours here a couple of hours over there. Well, they're easier to see at night because they have running lights They're subject to this the laws of the sea so they have red and green lights on them meaning, you know, so that other Other vehicles coming towards them will know which direction they're coming and going in have you ever thought maybe a photographing them I have tried with my little Camera I mean my phone and believe me it doesn't work. I don't have the camera to capture it Everything getting a camera that could capture what they do. Well, I think the police should have some way of at first I'm going to be honest with you. I thought it was the police. I Thought that the police had we're had some kind of surveillance going on with the city But after talking to the police, I I think they're just as concerned They recommended that I call my representatives I did call Warren Kitts Miller as well and I called and Watson and and I think everybody agrees that it's You know, it's a concern. I I've said recently. I've said everybody's so upset about these parklets Well, how do you feel about the drones? You know like looking in your window at night that should be the bigger concern that should be something that Everybody would be unsettled with well, it's It's certainly an amazing experience and For you in particular, but I'm sure many other people. How would you feel Bill if you? Saw a drone outside your window. I wouldn't I I I'm worried about What what could happen and I mean I can they can they Get together and form a Interest group and and put in legislation Well, I you know, I think that it's been discussed. I I guess it's like inhibits your Freedom of information or something. What would I don't really know what law? a Drone operator Would we why we would have to protect them what would be the law? That would prohibit an ordinance from being put in place so that you know, I mean what freedom of What I don't know when you're free to ask the legislative counsel that draft a bill for you Have you thought of that? Well, I wanted to get more information and I told Anne Watson that I would call her back with what I found and I actually need to delve further into the Newton, Massachusetts case because I think that what it's like I said, it's not a precedent for other Municipalities and the finding was of the Newton case the finding was that the citizen Who brought the suit against the city of Newton because they had an ordinance against flying drones One he won freedom of information act. I believe it was So I you know there are drones out there that you can probably see during the day Like if they're doing a tourist They want information for the tourist industry they'll come into Montpelier and they'll register with the FAA they you know, everybody knows that this is a professional drone photographer Making a video But these other private drones I mean Pretty soon what everybody could have a drone and it could be like a traffic jam up there I I don't mean to exaggerate, but it it it could be People could be that's another thing. What about bumping into trees and bouncing off and going through somebody's window at night There's all sorts of things that could could could happen with drones that could be dangerous and that include direct they can Put in legislation put bills in the hopper and I think it might I might have to be on a federal level Even they might have to set some kind of criteria and establish it so that municipalities and the state's Level could could do something because I I just think it's I Think there's like I said earlier. There's a potential for a lot of nefarious Actions to occur with a drone. No, you know legislators quite well and Could conceive of going to legislators. I'm worried about this for these reasons. Will you put a bill in for me? I'll write up a bill as soon as I let me do the research it a little bit more on the Newton case and And Also, I would like to work with Anne Watson the mayor on something Well, you could ask the people on the agenda of a municipality a City or town? I think what I really have been trying to tell people to do is look up at the sky That was the ending of a of a science fiction movie once look up at the sky I do think people just aren't looking up at the stars are people that are have probably seen these drones and You know, there's something to be said for Well, if I don't see them and I'm asleep what what harm can they do? I Guess that could be an argument Have you asked? other municipalities to take a look at You guys you could gather some support because I know you've been in politics. I know how you can gather support Well, I'm wondering about Burlington because well, they're part of Burlington is within six miles of the airport But um, and I'm also wondering if the FAA if they have filed any suits against people like I like I said, it's very difficult to locate the operator of The drone it's it's not as easy as you know seeing a connection between the you know, it's it's it's the it's the age of Wi-Fi and all these electronic things that are up up there and out there Well, so invasion of privacy if you ask He really can put a bill in or could you or did you ask any of your representatives to put it put in legislation? Well, I talked to Anne Watson and I like I said I'm going to get back to her With some information and and she said yes, it was probably something that she'd bring to the city council and That she thought it was an important issue. I mean everybody does So anything anything else you'd like to add to this discussion? Well, anything I should have asked you I Think you've got everything. Let's see what was on our list Yeah, I think we covered everything on the on the list and if you do discover something you Would you come back and give it a new story? Well, I hope But that if anybody sees this that they They look up in the sky more at night and if they have seen drones they should call and Watson the mayor and also the police and And help the police because the police recommended that I contact my representatives because they said that they are disturbed by it Well, we have make the laws. We have excellent representatives and I'm sure that if you Ask they would Put something in writing. Yes, I'm willing to do that I told I told Anne that I would take a stab at that too like some ordinance that I language around what an ordinance would look like but I Don't know I don't I don't know the ultimate answer to really Locating who's who's operating these drones? Yeah, well, I'm very impressed with the work that you've done on this issue It's a wonderful. There's everyone. I've everyone else welcome to one another result of this interview interview And I almost asked the press to come it's gonna be a great press story Well, eventually I think when we have a little more factual data to present I think that I Mean that's what citizens do. They're supposed to be the people who suggest laws to their legislators and their representatives So we'll do that. Well, I commend you for the effort you put in and Thanks for great interview. Thank you, ma'am Thanks, Bill