 Hello, everyone. Welcome to another Cointelegraph live stream. I'm Giovanni your host today We're gonna talk about radix is a layer one protocol and development framework designed specifically to serve decentralized finance Today I have the pleasure to be joined by the CEO at radix Pierce Riddia. How are you doing Pierce? I'm very good Thank you very much for having me Giovanni It's a pleasure So before we get started with a question I want to remind our audience that this is an interactive show So any question and come to your mind regarding This interesting project the radix just write them in the comments in the in the chat And we are going to ask Pierce to reply to those questions directly so also don't forget to like the video and subscribe to our channel and Yeah, so let's get started. So Pierce first of all, let's talk about radix in general. So a lot of people don't know what this project is about So how does the radix protocol work and what kind of problems in the DeFi space is it's aiming to solve? Sure, absolutely. So radix is a layer one protocol Just a term that people use for things like the Bitcoin ledger or the Ethereum ledger or the Salon ledger or whatever Like that's a layer one protocol But radix is a layer one protocol built specifically to serve decentralized finance, which is why we like to say it's a layer one DeFi done Right Radix is the only decentralized ledger Where developers will be able to build quickly without the constant threat of exploits and hacks where every improvement will be rewarded And where scale will never be a bottleneck and this comes down to the three key things that we're delivering the first is a 10x in developer DeFi productivity The second is a hundred X in DeFi execution efficiency and the third is a thousand X in DeFi scalability So like if I just dive into those a little bit on the first one like Developing on Ethereum really sucks and the reason it sucks is it really comes down to solidity Solidity is at the core of why a lot of these hacks happen in the first place We've had two hundred eighty five million dollars of hacks to date and Ethereum's solidity language that actually all of the other layer ones are also using is to blame for a large number of these hacks And so developers spend about 90 percent of their time on security rather than innovation And so we wanted to reverse that with radix by creating a developer environment that would 10x the productivity of developers The second is this idea that Ethereum isn't scalable isn't just because of its consensus It's also because it's execution environment the Ethereum virtual machine is like super super slow one of the biggest bottlenecks on the Ethereum network and is in turn one of the biggest bottlenecks on most Layer one plat projects apart from radix that are actually just adopted the EVM And so what we've done is we've created something called the radix engine Which are a hundred X is the execution efficiency versus the EVM and the last is is this massively scalable System of consensus that we've created That allows us to bring more than a thousand X scalability to decentralized finance without breaking this really important idea of Composability which is this ability to be able to compose together lots of applications all at the same time and have it Automically created or or fail which is actually driving huge amounts of DeFi liquidity today And unfortunately everyone else's approach breaks this really important aspect of DeFi scalability So in summary a public ledger built specifically for all of the problems that are currently faced by decentralized finance delivering 10x developer Productivity a hundred X DeFi execution efficiency in a thousand X DeFi scalability Okay, that sounds awesome. So let's try now to break down a little bit All all the stuff that you just said because there is a lot to unpack here As we know DeFi still has a lot of issues to deal with to to make it ready for mainstream adoption and I guess Radix is aiming to play an important role in this process of bringing DeFi to the mainstream So let's try to unpack this Project a little bit more. So we were mentioning Ethereum as having a series of problems One of these problems is the high transaction fees that we Experienced an Ethereum on the Ethereum network and that are still a major issue that are limiting the accessibility of the DeFi ecosystem so How would the Radix address this problem of high transaction fees on the Ethereum network? Yeah, so it's a really interesting problem like And it all comes down to congestion So the way that Ethereum works is that you pay a transaction fee is a bid on Getting the network to execute it and this has two problems the first is the number of people who are trying to get executions done and then the second is like how difficult those executions are to do so like This comes down to those two things I was talking about right a hundred X If Execution efficiency in a thousand X scalability you if you can make it easier for the nodes to execute You can get more executions, which means you can get more DeFi happening just for the same computational effort And the second is is you massively increase the scalability of the network So Radix created its own consensus algorithm called Cerberus, which is a cross-shard consensus algorithm Which allows linear scalability, which means as you add more nodes to the network You can increase the total throughput of the network So you get rid of this congestion issue Which is that congestion happens when there are as more people who want to do something on the network the network is able to process so Radix is both Increasing the amount the network is able to process and the speed at which it can process things And so once you get rid of those congestion issues the cost of fees Come down radically because suddenly you're not bidding against other people You're not competing against other people to get your transaction in a block instead There's always space for you to be able to execute which means that the cost of execution the cost of using the networks comes a Lot closer to the actual economic cost that it is for the for the node runners to be running these Processing processing these transactions and executing state So what Radix is to basically doing is creating a larger amount of capacity So that you have you think of it as a multi-lane highway You get a lot more cars down it and you increase the speed limit so that you can get more cars faster down it And that is essentially how we solve this this issue of congestion that is being faced by the Ethereum network today mm-hmm Great, so I see that so we already have some engagement from the audience. That's great. We see some questions coming up For example Hermes Radvocado is asking to you peers Do you think EVM apps go mainstream if they manage to scale them or do you think the buildability aspect will not allow that? So it's a really interesting question. So basically you saying like if I've written something in solidity If we get rid of the scale problem Because solidity compiles down into the Ethereum virtual machine and then the Ethereum virtual machine is what executes it on top of the public ledger So if we get rid of the scalability problem on Ethereum It are EVM applications still going to be able to go mainstream and like the answer to it is nuanced like With the Radix engine our execution environment isn't the same as Ethereum so there's this concept in Ethereum called Turing completeness Which basically means that it can execute any program that you want As long as you pay enough gas now, that's that sounds good But for critical systems you often don't want Turing completeness what you want is You want to be able to define all the states the system can be in and make sure that it can't get into error states Or it's very hard to get into error states This is what you do when you're building high criticality systems So if you're building a nuclear control system, you don't use a bunch of nested ifs You instead define the several states the system is allowed to be in and it can only transition to those states And it can't go into an error state And if you're building, you know a matching engine on the New York Stock Exchange you do the same thing You use this thing called a finite state machine and Radix's Language scripto compiles down to these programmable state machines Which means that it's able to execute a lot faster, but also much much more securely now That doesn't mean that you can't build using the EVM. It's just that as these systems mature You tend to see Developers move towards an environment that adds Guarantees that makes their life easier because it's not just a question of building the functionality It's that functionality then going on without having bugs and having problems later and being able to run in a high In a high reliability way so EVM's EVM built applications are just going to always be less performant and End up on average having more bugs. They can still go mainstream They're just these just why why would you want to push a financial application on something that is fundamentally less secure and Is more likely to go wrong in a high number of ways? And then from the buildability aspect point of view like scripto We have built scripto our programming language built specifically for decentralized finance application developers As a result of feedback that we've got over the last year from DeFi builders who are building using solidities today To get to this idea of a really easy to use language that allows you to build decentralized finance applications intuitively and Not have to worry so much about security and again like you can still build like Solidity-based applications if you want to it's just going to take you a lot longer to reach the endpoint And it's why languages like rust or go or swift are so popular versus something like C I can do everything that I want to in C That I can do in Swift or rust or go or or any of these languages But use but developers fundamentally gravitate towards the tools that make it easier to do their job And and that's what we're basically doing here We've been very careful to focus on the use case and giving people the best tools to be able to address that use case Thanks. So you you reply to that question quite exhaustively. So I think that the audience is is Getting very well informed about the properties of radix and How it plans to revolutionize the DeFi space? So talking about what happened recently yesterday We know that the Olympia main net the first version of radix public network is has gone live so congratulations first of all and Can you tell us more about the launch? Absolutely. So like I would say that radix is a is a road map Driven project like our whole goal is getting towards this This end state that we think the financial the the the the underlying Foundation of the global financial system of the future should look like and all of the things that need to be built to get there So Olympia is just the first milestone in that journey Olympia is our is our first main net release It's the first public network that radix has created that you can go and use it release our tokens You can go and start staking on the network. There's like 300 million Radix tokens available per year to anyone who stakes which are like current market value is about you know 40 40 50 million dollars per annum, which is you know fairly decent And you can also do things like simple transactions and stuff like that The first version of the network is not linearly scalable It is just to prove out our new consensus system our new security model and our new execution environment Then at the end of this year Alexandria goes comes to which is when we deliver our language our programming language scripto in a sandbox environment for developers to start building and testing out decentralized finance applications building off ledger and then next year Babylon is when that goes live when that comes on to the Onto the public ledger and D5 starts to be able to be built on top of radix and people start to be able to use it As well as our developer royalty system, which I'll talk a little bit about later And then the year after that will be when Sheehan goes live and we were able to deliver that sort of full linear scalability But it from my point of view This is this is the way that it's important to deliver like the first thing you need to deliver before you deliver full scalability Is proving that the system that you are building addresses a need like that that fundamentally you've Got at something that is easy to build with that is that is that you're able to innovate very quickly on And then later on expand out the complexity of the system to to address sort of a higher demand for the Network because if you look at all of these networks, they start off with a fairly low use base and then they just and then they go Exponential so the amount of usage that you need the throughput you need at the start earliest days is quite low and then the amount of throughput you need in 10 years is Is just is massively higher than anything that we're seeing today on any network because of where we're going like Finance we're on our way to to replace finance with a public decentralized ledger system That means that you're going to need millions of transactions per second But all of these things takes up time and so we're starting with usability and then going on to scalability Cool, and we're gonna talk about your roadmap more in details a bit later in the AMA But first we got another question from the audience So Sebastian Pereira is asking is radix using global balance or UTXO to track transactions It's a good question UTXO to track transactions And it's the only way that we think it is possible to do a fully state-sharded model for For being able to create a scalable system. So no, there's no global balance The only thing that's global on the radix network is the is your stake You're staking for sorry the stake balance of the nodes that are operating because the system is a proof-of-stake system everything else is is local UTXO Mm-hmm and and actually like this is a this is a really interesting like subject like technology debate around like balance-based systems versus UTXO and Like the Bitcoin way of doing things UTXO and the Ethereum way of doing things balance-based like there are there are strengths and weaknesses of both but generalizing UTXO for state transitions for finite state machines that have compiled down from a expressive language like scripto Is actually an incredibly efficient way of getting both a way of building great Products, but then having high guarantees about security and being able to shard State across a sharded network so that you can have scalability as well. So it's a great question and and and yes Everything is local Cool, we are we are having a lot of interesting questions today. So that's exciting I invite our audience to continue like that and ask any questions that come to your mind about even technical issues Technical details that you might be interested in about the radix so My first might my following question is actually Less what technical one but more related to this security aspect that radix is planning to solve It's less of a technical one, but let me ask you a really technical question. How do you do security? So we know that DeFi space has proven vulnerable to hacks and other security breaches which resultants in the loss of hundreds of billions of dollars in the last couple of years and So what is radix doing to solve the DeFi security issue? Right, which which I will keep I'll keep nice and I'll try and keep nice and high level So the issue with decentralized finance security is Really to do with how solidity forces you so okay, so really simple Let's let's start from further back solidity the language that Was created by the ethereum Foundation for building smart contracts on top of ethereum the approach that they took is they were like we're not sure What this language is going to be used for we don't know what the use case like what the killer application for public ledgers is back in 2014 when they were building the language So what we're going to choose is we're going to choose a language that is as close to the most popular Programming language in the world, which is JavaScript and so they went right we're going to take JavaScript because what we want is we want people to find this really easy to Pick up and to have the biggest pool of developers possible for this so But then then as they were adapting it They were realizing that well, it couldn't be like actual JavaScript. It had to be like this weird Changed version of JavaScript called solidity that was basically had to have lots of extra Concepts inside of it and couldn't have all of the functionality of JavaScript So and then they had to change how the language worked And so it's not actually JavaScript, but the syntax is kind of like JavaScript So it actually didn't end up being easy to pick up because you still have to learn a new language When you're even if you know JavaScript and then the other problem is is JavaScript is not a good language for building high-criticality Systems like if you went to the CTO of a neobank like Monzo or N26 or any of these new startup banks that are sort of like Fundamentally changing trying to change the consumer experience of banking and said hey I'd like you to build your core technology in JavaScript They they would kill you because it's not it's not the right tool for the job We have the advantage That we aren't launching in 2014 or 2015 We're launching in 2021 Where we've been able to watch the progression of the space from being like what is the purpose of public ledgers? We're not sure it could be logistics. It could be finance. It could be charity It could be something else right entirely to being very sure that Decentralized finance is probably the biggest killer application there is for for public ledgers For lots of really interesting reasons But like and we're seeing the start of real product market fit with with what's happening with DeFi like DeFi is over 100 billion dollars under management in just over a year. That's kind of crazy and so We we were able to go well What language would you want to use if you were going to build high-criticality systems? Well, you'd want to use a language that has several functions that would make it really easy For you to be able to build secure finance But specifically secure finance and make it intuitive to build secure finance And so that's what we've done with script. Oh, well, that's what we think we've done with script Oh, we'll find out at the end of this year And why we think it's fundamentally from a philosophical point of view and from a design point of view Why we think it's going to be a lot more secure to build on radix than it is going to be to build with something like Solidity because the starting point is correct for the application that it's being That's being addressed Mm-hmm. That's interesting So let's see if the if the audience has some questions on the security issue. Oh We have another question from From Sebastian Pereira who is asking are you read radix is using DPOS on the consensus algorithm? Does that mean the network is partially centralized? It's an interesting question like I I Love this debate it depends it depends how long how long you've been in the space is to like where you come in at this It's like if you're like a true Bitcoin a you're like everything's everything's everything centralized if you can't just have anyone Join without having to buy anything So We we we we chose DPOS, but it's not DPOS in the in the way that Things like EOS do it You can you can to be a node runner you can stake to your own node Or you can opt for your node to be able to have steak delegated to it as well And in the an Olympia It's the top 100 nodes by stake weight that get included in the consensus rounds Which means that they're the ones that earn the Fees and they get shared between the the node runner and the people who are delegating to that node runner And the node isn't actually under control of the stake that has been delegated to it The a person can just unstake and choose a different node if they want to And the only way that they could end up losing Money is if they if the node that they were staking to was dishonest and it got slashed in terms of centralization radix She out like on our roadmap. We have unlimited essentially unlimited nodes that can join the network But the first version of the network is limited to a hundred in the in the consensus rounds That doesn't mean that there has to be a limit of a hundred running on the network And it's quite easy to change, you know To to undeligate from your one node and redelegate to another Um, I think that that's the right balance for the first version of the network because sharding is actually a really complicated thing to do In terms of making sure that your state model your security model and your civil model work together So we're starting with this is just as just a way of making sure like test the things that you want to make sure are working well Validate them and then add the next layer of complexity atop on top And that's essentially what's going to happen over the next, you know, sort of year to two years Um, but no, I don't I don't think it particularly causes centralization I think what's more worrying is things like concentration of stake, which is a difficult problem Like with all proof of stake systems and you end up getting plutocracies if you do governance wrong and that's like a huge topic in and itself Um, but yeah, these are all questions that we are careful to debate internally We do want to make sure that the system is as decentralized as possible But we understand that fundamentally you have to make practical decisions to make sure that the system works for the use cases That it's addressing as well So there's always those balances between like ideal state system state And practical to sort of get to market state and I think we're hitting the right balances on that at each stage Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's interesting I feel that sometimes this concept of decentralization becomes a little bit of an idealistic debate and sometimes people Should pay more attention to the to the use case instead of following this ideal uh, ideal vision of perfect decentralization, which is Quite hard to realize in practice. I would say I do think it's something you shouldn't stop working towards though like fundamentally the that these public ledgers we want radix to be The foundation of the global financial system like if you want a network to be a public good essential to the world then you have to Think about it from the point of view of uh, I'm going to use a word that one of my developers hates One of my team hates me using which is anti fragilist because I use it in the wrong way But like you want these systems to be anti fragile You want these systems to be able to be resilient as much as possible and decentralization massively improves resilience And so I do think like working towards like the ideal state as much as you can is a good thing but You have to make sure that you're making practical decisions along the way because if you're building for the perfect end state But doing so means that you never launch or you never actually produce anything Then you you never end up getting there and something else ends up winning the debate that may be even worse. So like fundamentally Perfect decentralization is really difficult to achieve It doesn't mean that we aren't trying to work towards it But we aren't doing it at the expense of not actually delivering something that we think the market needs today Uh, under the under, you know, how how we are right now Yeah, it sounds like a quite a wise approach but my my following question is actually related to to this issue of decentralization because um As you said, I mean decentralization is what we are striving for Still, um, there is also a problem of regulation. So the decentralized space that is the defy space is still highly unregulated But not long ago. We have been witnessing some some movements. Uh, that are kind of Hinting at a stricter regulation coming soon. So the financial action task force Recently published new guidelines that if implemented will require decentralized protocols to implement KYC and AML procedures So the financial action task force is some sort of international task force that That's ensure a KYC and AML procedures are implemented in Within within the financial institution. So What what is your stance towards more stringent regulation being imposed on the defy ecosystem? And do you think it's even possible for a decentralized protocol to implement these? KYC and AML procedures Really good questions. Um so The starting point for me is that permissionlessness of these public ledgers is is paramount and the reason that it's paramount is because you The speed of innovation that is possible as a result of having a permissionless sandbox to try things out Has resulted in more innovation in the last 12 months in the defy space than the the financial sector has managed in the last 50 years And that is amazing and that is going to result in huge amounts of consumer Benefit that is going to result in better capital products that provide higher yields that are safer Now there's a lot bunch of stuff that happens in between That also is important like people having hacks and bugs and rug pulls and all this kind of stuff That's important because it teaches people how to build better more robust systems Like for exactly the same reason that open source software is more secure than proprietary software Because it's because it's been attacked It's available for people to play around with it and have a go And that's how resilience is built and that's how we build gonna build resilience in the financial system as well regulation Does not in and itself create better financial products. In fact, it has fundamentally stopped innovation In the space for a very long time because regulators are terrified about the potential of Of loss of funds, right? So I think the permissionlessness of these systems is really important for creating that sandbox for people to play around it And and have a go and create these innovations And I think a lot of the regulators are looking at it and going well the the consumer benefit is massively outweighing the consumer costs right now Although, you know, there are politicians like elizabeth warren who are sort of fundamentally having a go which is problematic As soon as you get these people soap boxing However To be able to Get the next wave of money into decentralized finance. There is this idea of It's not even a question of the financial protocols need to be regulated because if they're not it's a problem It's that there's a business reason that they need to be regulated to be able to offer Regulation systems in there because they're they're the potential clients you know funds And and even just normal businesses Can't The can't Reason about the the counter parties that they're dealing with Can't use d5 people like it's not that there aren't funds out there going wow I'd really like to use rv. There's loads of funds going like I'd really like to use rv 10 15 per annum on my stablecoin. Yes, please that sounds great And then can't use it because their council looks at rv and goes These are pools of funds that we have no idea who the counter party is so like how How can we put money in there because when we get it out? We have no idea who we've got the money from It's a smart contract. That's my counter party. Not an individual so It is absolutely possible to build permissioned applications on top of permissionless infrastructure And I think that permissioned and permissionless in applications living next to each other on top of these platforms Is a fantastic thing rv is doing it. They've just released rv pro Which means that to be able to use it you have to have k y c d a ml to be able to get into and get out of the The rv pro platform. It's the same code base as are they on top of ethereum It's on permissionless infrastructure But it is permissioned so that the larger capital providers in the market are still able to able to start to play That's a good thing. That is that is what we want now radix Has built like we realized that this was coming and like anyone who's reading the regulations Right now would see that these kind of things are coming. So what we did is we built insta pass and insta pass is a is a is a d-fi compliance tool That allows any d-fi developer who wants to build compliant d-fi on top of radix To integrate this insta pass into their d-fi application, which allows them to be a ml k y c compliant without having to build an entire regulatory stack themselves And from the user's point of view means that the user only has to do their ml k y c once and then can access many Applications that are integrating the same stack on the radix platform. So I don't I fundamentally believe that permissionlessness is is massively important and permissionless finance should continue to exist And shouldn't be regulated out of existence because without that we don't have the speed of innovation But fundamentally You need to give tools to developers because what I don't want to happen and what can happen if you if we don't get ahead of this Is that we regulate the small guy from actually being able to make innovations in the first place because building a compliance stack is really really expensive So instead of just building it for ourselves We built it as an api tool that anyone can use so that we can give people that advantage of being able to still be You know a guy in his dorm room or like a person who like a couple of friends who are just getting started To to still be able to compete in the space still be able to compete against the big financial players But but still then but then still be able to sit within the regulatory frameworks that are now being put in place by these big regulators And by the way the fact that this regulation is coming in Is a sign that defi is increasing its legitimacy in the space if if it was just thought to be a toy They wouldn't be regulating it, but now they're seeing how powerful this thing is They they're starting to bring in this regulation and fundamentally radix What we want you to always think is that there isn't that you have The edge in building on radix because we have tried to give you all of the tools to make your success as easy as possible Things like insta pass and being able to comply with regulation without having to build a regulatory stack yourself That's that's awesome. I think that this capacity of making a regulated and unregulated elements within the same protocol coexist. It's uh, uh It seems a very complicated endeavor and uh, I I'm looking forward to see what radix is going to be able to create in that respect Also, we have a question regarding regulation from estaban angeles He asking do you think regulations might hinder radix ability to grow? Uh, no, I don't I I think I think that it will hinder many of our competitors Um, but I think that our I think that our approach is fundamentally Designed to keep the barrier to entry for people who want to build on top of our platform as low as possible And maintain that pace of innovation Um, there's another question here, which is radix is gdpr compliant for a framework like yes, right? The the insta pass service is gdpr compliant like we built everything within the european union We've done everything according to the data rules uh that the european union stipulates under gdpr guidelines and like that was complicated But we made it work. Um, and so that was a really interesting piece of work as well. So, yeah yeah Okay, and uh, actually my following question is also related to to regulation to the way um These protocols are a kind of engaging with established business practices so In a move to style to cypher competition union swap recently used a business license Effectively restricting restricting the usage of its code. So before it was an open one Now it's not that open anymore because they want to prevent something like sushi swap to to come up again uh, so In case more defi protocols will acquire similar licenses that effectively prevent their code to be used uh So don't you think that the openness and the collaborativeness of the defi ecosystem will be undermined And what is radix stands towards this issue regarding business licenses? Yeah, it's a really interesting one. So like, um, and and union swap isn't the first one to do it. Like I think curve Also has done it. Um, though people are less aware of it. Um So I think that this sort of comes to the heart of one of the things that we that we sort of realized when studying the success of like the ethereum ecosystem versus the failure of things like eos Despite massive differences in in in in in money of resources that they had available ethereum actually didn't have a huge amount of resources um and the The thing that characterized the ethereum ecosystem early was the amount of developers who were sort of willingly giving their time to testing things out playing around with stuff building tools and open source um Code that they were giving away because it was like it was competitive It was competitive friendship Then and that was actually talked about a lot of this idea of helping each other out To because like there's so much to build and we can't all do it on our own So like let's let's open source and and let's give each other stuff and then Defi started to be much more about money. Like it went from being like this fun interesting Philosophical like area to like being much more like well, we can make serious money here and that's a good thing That's a good sensible transition from some points of view It became less fun for the sort of like the community developer though Because suddenly it wasn't it wasn't so much just like helping each other out and doing some experiments It's like my piece of code might make someone else extremely wealthy And I don't and I don't see any of that like and and in things like um public ledgers like you can't just Give you can't you can't be proprietary code And have people trust you have to be open source So there's this in there's this intense difference between open source or or at least open review code and and and not having people just like massively profit off you without it without you you getting um money so relics basically went What if we consult we work we can make this better Because all of the people who build the we build the tools that make it possible to build decentralized finance applications They're immensely important as the success of the ecosystem So what if we built on on the radix ledger? We built this concept of a of a github like repo Of libraries that have royalties attached to it and then we built the royalties so deeply into the ledger That's actually part of the fee system right So now on radix if you build a great Component or library that could be included into a decentralized finance application Your that component when it gets integrated into the decentralized finance application on top of the onto the various ledger A royalty comes from that to the developer if they choose to to to create a royalty Royalties come to the developer every time that is instantiated or used or depending on how you want to to create set up the system And we think this is really important because there's a difference between people who just want to implement stuff and people who want to Build businesses on the things on the code that's available And you see that in the traditional space as well like the people who build things like spotify or Transfer wise didn't like it built on a huge number of libraries built on other by other people They all they did is they stitched together in a certain way to create their business And so what radix has done has created this system of developer royalties That flowed directly from the use of the systems on top of our platform So that there is an incentive to continue to be a member of the radix ecosystem to continue to Contribute to the radix ecosystem Because if the radix ecosystem is successful and what you create is useful Then you will get you'll get rewarded for that you will get paid for that But based in proportion to how successful or useful the thing you create is which creates a marketplace Between people who just want to like build code for a weekend like play around with things or or like actually just build Tools for people and people who want to build systems that have Customers and that have to deal with customer support and community management and all of that extra sort of like stuff That is complicated and difficult on top of just building code Now coming back to the uni swap v3. I think that is I think that's just a A Example of where They're that the incentives don't work in the in the ethereum ecosystem anymore And we think this approach Can can massively improve it doesn't mean that people can't do something like the uni swap v3 model And I do think it's anti competitive, but I also think that it's sort of going to happen We're not trying to step inside that we're just saying here's a marketplace That allows the community to pay back or pay it forwards for people who are helpful That are people who are who are useful within the radix ecosystem to help people build great decentralized finance applications And we think that that can create a fantastic feedback loop between decentralized finance applications as developers and people want to build Builds and businesses on these systems and people who are just like in the community for the fun and the code and just Want to like build shit, but don't really want to build massive products on top of it Cool. So that sounds like an exciting method to make developers stick around and Build some sort of loyalty to the radix ecosystem also, I think an important point here to discuss is the Is the interoperability issue so As we know the interoperability is one of the main features of of defy one of the Most exciting aspects of defy So we have a question from the audience They are who is asking um, how is radix bringing or improving interoperability within the defy world That's a really interesting question. So, um Interoperability can be defined at like lots of different levels like do you mean interoperability between decentralized finance applications? Or do you mean interoperability between ledges? Or do you mean interoperability between traditional finance and decentralized finance or new finance? Whatever we want to call it Radix has several approaches to all of those So like interoperability between decentralized finance applications We have this concept of of components and blueprints that allow that that push Towards a much more standardization of the ways in which you build decentralized finance applications It's not prescriptive and saying this is how you should But if a standard emerges it means that it's it gets adopted much more quickly in our ecosystem Which we think will mean that you have financial applications that Decentralized finance applications that are much easier to compose together a lot of people don't realize this But composing together uniswap and ave and ave and compound And compound and make it out is actually quite difficult like the the interfaces are not the same There's no real standardization of it So like actually from a developer's point of view or a user's point of view it still sucks a little bit Radix Blueprint component catalog system is likely to make that interoperability a lot better So making it easy for these decentralized finance applications to talk to each other and work with each other next level up interoperability between ledges There's lots of ways to do this we started we're starting with something called insta bridge Which is just a way of bringing tokens and coins from other ledgers onto the radix ledger You can think of it as like, you know, like ren's version of wrapped btc But for many more tokens That's or that that's being launched next week for the ex rd to x rd bridge But will be expanded out to many more tokens beyond that over the next like few months Next level above that like these idea of permissionless bridges that allow calling So like a good example of something like nears rainbow bridge on ethereum between ethereum and nea That starts to get a bit more complicated But it's trying to bring these two ledgers closer together so that you can make calls out from from for example the radix system to The ethereum system get something get the state back and then bring it back that is You know going to take a bit more time to develop But it's something that if the if the ecosystem and if the users need it If there's good reasons to build it then we will make sure that that happens early in the in the roadmap And then building bridges between the traditional financial sector and and our platform Things like insta pass and our single sign-on defy Compliant solution things like giving giving tools for it making it easy for traditional systems to talk to our system via api All of that stuff is also in the works as well but you know the Interoperability isn't one thing It's and it and it also really depends on like whether or not you mean like interoperability of assets or interoperability of Or just being able to talk to each other and understand state or if you need like it Or if you mean something like a lot deeper than that in terms of being calls being interoperable. So like it's it's um It's something that will take some time to build out completely on radix, but we're already starting Awesome. So, uh, I think we it's a good time to start wrapping things up. So We I mean, there are a lot of other aspects to discuss much more in-depth Unfortunately, we don't have enough time now to cover all those But I invite people if they are curious about radix to check out the website Um, which I believe is radix D l t dot com. That's right. R a d i x d l t dot com radix d l t dot com Right. Uh, I think we got it also in the description below. No, we don't but yeah, uh That's that was the uh, that was the address so Um, and also come like come join our telegram community. It's awesome. There's loads of amazing people there Come learn about radix come join our twitter. There's lots of news that comes out on twitter That's breaking. So like that's where you want to be And discord if you're a developer and you want to get a bit more technical That's where all of the uh team that can answer your more technical questions like running nodes and stuff like that Run uh are living as well Awesome. So pierce. Do you have any more things that our audience need to know about radix that you want to let them Let them know as a closing remark Sure. So the the we've launched our main net. We're going through what's a two week bootstrapping period And then after that two week bootstrapping period the uh staking Rewards start if you want to come and stake To secure the network and get part of the 300 million Xrd that are available for people who are staking on the network Now is a good time to start getting involved start our website start in our community and they'll help you out Super easy to stake on the radix network. You can just use our desktop wallet to do that Which is also compatible with hardware wallets And like just generally like if if this sounds cool and you're not completely convinced Like come come ask questions in our community. There's lots of really cool people. I saw some questions around You know, what like what about you versus cardano? What about you versus? polka dot like what about you versus ethereum 2.0 like these are great questions come ask them We've we've we've we've done lots of conversations around this. There's lots of great resources available for that So like yeah, come get involved. Love to see you in the community at some point Yeah, actually I was very excited to see so much involvement in the discussion Thanks a lot to everyone watching and for the great question. It was super interesting Thank you for thank you peers to come on uh on our show today with us And looking forward to to follow your project further I'm Giovanni your host And uh, don't forget to like the video and subscribe to our channel. See you next time Thank you very much Giovanni