 From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto Studios today, having a CUBE Conversation with the COVID situation going on. We've had to change our business and go pretty much 100% digital. And as part of that process, we wanted to reach out to our community and talk to some of the leaders out there because I think leadership and traveling times is even more amplified in its importance. So we're excited to be joined today by two leaders in our community. First one being John Chambers, a very familiar face from many, many years at Cisco's, who's now the founder and CEO of J2 Ventures, or JC2 Ventures. John, great to see you. Jeff, it's a pleasure to be with you again. Absolutely, and joining him is Amesh Sachdev. He's the co-founder and CEO of Unifor. First time on theCUBE, Amesh, great to meet you. Jeff, thank you for having me. It's great to be with you. Yeah, you as well. And I had one of your great people on the other day talking about CX. And I think CX is the whole solution. Why did Uber beat cabs? So you want to stand on the corner and raise your hand in the rain? Or do you want to know when the guy's going to come pick you up in just a couple of minutes? So anyway, welcome. So let's jump into it. John, what are your things that you talked about? Last time we talked thing was in October, wow, how the world has changed, is about having a playbook and really, kind of thinking about what you want to do before it's time to actually do it and having some type of a script and some type of direction and some type of structure as to how you respond to situations. Well, there's nothing like a disaster to really fire off the need to shift gears and go kind of into a playbook mode. So I wonder if you can share with the viewers kind of what is your playbook? You've been through a couple of these bumps, not necessarily like COVID-19, but you've seen a couple of bumps over your career. So it's my pleasure, Jeff. What I'll do is kind of outline how I believe you use an innovation playbook on everything from acquisitions, to digitizing a company, to dealing with crisis. Let's focus on the playbook for crisis. You are right, and I'm not talking about my age, but this is my sixth financial crisis. And then through the late 1990s with the Asian financial crisis came out of it even stronger at Cisco. Like everybody else, we got knocked down in the 2001 tech bubble. Came back to mid even stronger than 2008, 2009, great recession. We came through that one very, very strong and we saw that one coming. It's my fourth major health crisis. Some of them turned out to be pretty small. I was in Mexico when the bird pandemic hit with the president of Mexico, when we thought it was going to be terrible and we nearly had to cancel the meetings that evening. That's why Cisco built the Peller Presence. I was in Brazil for the issue with the Zika virus that never really developed much and the Olympics went on there and I only saw one mosquito during the event, it bit me. But what I'm sharing with you is I've seen this movie again and again and then with supply chain, which not many people are talking about yet, supply chain crisis like we saw in Japan with a tsunami. What's happening this time is you're seeing all three at one time and they're occurring even faster. So the playbook is pretty simple in crisis management and then it'd be fun to put a message on the spot and say, how closely did you follow it? Did you agree with this user? Did you disagree, et cetera on it? And I won't mention a message that you've got a review coming up shortly from your board. So that should not affect your answer at all. But the first playbook is be realistic how much was self-inflicted, how much was market? This one's largely market, but if you had problems before you got to address them at the same time. The second thing is part of the five to seven things that are material you're going to do to lead through this crisis. That's everything from expense management to cash preservation. It's about how do you interface to your employees and how do you build on culture? It's about how do you interface to your customers as they change from their top priority being growth and innovation to top priority being cost savings and the ability to really keep their current revenue streams from churning and moving. And it's about literally how do you make your big bets for what you want to look like as you move out of this market? Then it's how do you communicate that to your employees, to your shareholders, to your customers, to your partners, painting the picture of what you look like as you come out? As basic as that sounds, that's what crisis management is all about. Don't hide, be visible. CEOs should take the role in implementing that playbook. Amesh, do you agree and have fun with it a little bit? I like to give and take. I want to see the playbook. Do you have it there just below the camera? I have it right here by my side. I will tell you, Jeff, in crisis times and difficult times like these, you count all the things that go right for you. You count your blessings. And one of the blessings that I have as a CEO is to have John Chambers as my mentor by my side, sharing not just the learnings that he had through the crisis, but talking through this with me on a regular basis. I've read John's book more than a few times, I bet more than anybody in the world. I've read it over and over. And that to me is preparation going into this more. One of the things that John has always taught me is when times get difficult, you get calmer than usual. It's one thing that when you're cruising on the freeway and you're asked to put the brakes, but it's quite another when you're in rocket ship and accelerating, which is what my company situation was in the month of January. We were coming out of a year of 300% growth. We were driving towards another 300% growth, hiring tremendously at a high pace, winning customers at a high pace and then this hit us. And so what I had to do from a playbook perspective is take a deep breath and just for a couple of days just slow down and calmly look at the situation. My first few steps were I reached out to 15 of our top customers, the CEOs and gave them calls and said, let's just talk about what you're seeing and what we are observing in our business to get a sense of where they are in their businesses. We had the benefit, my co-founder works out of Singapore and runs our Asia business. We had the benefit of picking up the sign probably a month before everyone else did it in the US. I was with John in Australia, but I was telling John that John, something unusual is happening, a couple of our customers in these countries in Asia are starting to tell us they will do the deal a quarter later. And it's one thing when one of them says it, it's another when six of them say it together. And John obviously has seen this movie. He could connect the dots early. He told me to prepare. He told the rest of the portfolio companies that are in his investment group to start repairing. We then went to the playbook that John spoke of being visible. For me, culture and communication take front seat. We have employees in 10 different countries. We have offices and very quickly, even before the government's mandated, we had all of them go work from home and we remote because employee safety and health was number one priority. We did our first virtual all hands meeting on Zoom. We had about 240 people join in from around the world. And my job as CEO, usually our all hands meeting were different functional leaders, different people in the group talk to the team about their initiative. This all hands was almost entirely run by me addressing the whole company about what's going to be the situation from my lens, what have we learned, be very factual. At the same time, communicating to the team that because of the fact that we raised our funding last year, it was a good amount of money. We still have a lot of that in the bank. So we're going to be very secure. At the same time, our customers are probably going to need us more than ever. Call centers are in more demand than ever. People can't walk up to a bank branch. They can't go up to a hospital without taking an appointment. So the first thing everyone is doing is trying to reach call centers. There aren't enough people. And anyways, the workforce that call centers have around the world are 50% working from home. So the capacity has dropped. So our responsibility almost is to step up and have our AI and automation products available to as many call centers as we can. So as we are planning our own business continuity and making sure every single employee is safe, the message to my team was we also have to be aggressive and making sure we are more out there and more available for our customers. That would also mean business growth for us. But first and foremost is for us to be responsible citizens and just make it available when it's needed. As we did that, I quickly went back to my leadership team. And again, the learning from John is usually it's more of a consensus driven approach. We go around the table, talk about a topic for a couple of hours, get the consensus and move out of the room. My leadership meetings, AI have become more frequent. We get together once a week on video call with my executive leaders. And it's largely these days run by me. I broke down the team into five different war rooms with different objectives. One of them we called it the preservation. We said one leader supported by others will take the responsibility of making sure every single employee, their families and our current customers are addressed, taken care of. So we made somebody lead that group. Another group was made responsible for growth. Business needs to, in the company that's growing at 300% and we still have the opportunity because call centers need us more than ever. We wanted to make sure we are responding to growth and not just hunkering down and ignoring the opportunity. So we had a second war room take care of the growth and a third war room led by the head of finance to look at all the financial scenarios, do the stress test and see if we are gonna be ready for any eventuality that's gonna come because we have a huge amount of people who work at Jennifer around the world and we wanted to make sure their well-being is taken care of. So from being over communicative to the team and customers and being out there personally to making sure we break down the teams we have tremendous talent and we let different people set up people run different priorities and report back to me more frequently. And now as we have settled into this rhythm Jeff as you know we've been at least in the barrier here we've been shelter in place for about a month now as we are in the rhythm we are beginning to do virtual happy hours so every Thursday evening right after this call I get together with my team at the glass of wine and we get together we talk everything but work and every employee it's not divided by functions or leadership and we're getting the rhythm back into the organization. So we've gone and adjusted in the crisis I would say very well and the business is just humming along as we had anticipated going to this crisis but I would say if I didn't have John by my side if I hadn't read his book the number of times that I have every plane ride we've done together every place we've gone together John has spoken about war stories about the 2001 about 2008 and until you face the first one of your own just like I did right now you don't appreciate when John says leadership is lonely but you know having him by our side makes it easier. Well I'm sure he's told you the Jack well story right that you've quoted before John where Jack told you you're not really a good leader yet until you've been tested right till you go through some tough stuff it's not that hard to lead on an upward to the right curve it's when things get a little challenging that the real leadership shines through. Completely agree and Jack said the best we were on our way to becoming the most valuable company in the world he looked me in eye and said John you have a very good company and I knew he was about to give me a teaching moment I said what does it take to have a great one? He said a near-death experience and I thought I did that in 97 and some of the other management he said no it's when you went through something like we went through in 2001 which many of our peers did die in and we were knocked down really hard we came back from it you get better but what you see in a mesh is a very humble young CEO I have to remember he's only 34 years old because his maturity is like he's 15 he's seen it before as you tell he's like a sponge on learning and he doesn't mind challenging and what he didn't say in his humbleness is they had the best month in March ever and again well over 300% versus the same quarter a year ago so it shows you if you're in the right spot i.e. artificial intelligence i.e. cost savings customer relationship with their customers how you can grow even during the tough times and perhaps set a bold vision based upon facts and a execution plan that very few companies will be able to deliver on today so off to a great start and you can see why I'm so honored and proud to be his strategic partner and his coach Well it's interesting right the human toll this crisis is horrible and there's a lot of people getting sick and a lot of people are dying and all the estimations are a lot more are going to die this month as hopefully we get over the hump of some of these curves so that aside you know we're here talking kind of more about kind of the business of this thing and it's really interesting kind of what a catalyst COVID has become in terms of digital transformation you know we've been talking about new ways to work for years and years and years and digital transformation and all these kind of things you mentioned the Cisco telepresence was out years and decades ago I mean I worked in Mitsubishi we had a phone camera in 1986 I looked it up today it was ridiculous it didn't work but now it's here right now working from home is here I must mention you know these huge call centers now everybody's got to go home do they have infrastructure to go home do they have a place to work at home do they have support to go home teachers are now being forced from K through 12 and I know it's a hot topic for you John to teach from home teach on Zoom with you know no time to prep no time to really think it through it's just like the kids aren't coming back we got to learn it you know I think this is such a transformational moment and to your point you know if this goes on for weeks and weeks and months and months which I think we all are agreement that it will and I think you said John you know many many quarters as people get new habits and get into this new flow I don't think they're going to go back to the old ways so I think it's a real you know kind of forcing function for digital transformation and it's you can't sit on the sidelines because your people can't come to the office anymore so you've raised a number of questions and I'll let a mesh handle the tough part out I'll answer the easy part which is I think this is the new normal and I think it's here now and the question is are you ready for it and as you think about what we're really saying is the video sessions will become such an integral part of our daily lives that we will not go back to having to do 90% of our work physically today alone I've done seven major group meetings on Zoom and Google Hangouts and Cisco WebEx I've done six meetings with individuals or the key CEOs of my portfolio so that part is here to stay now what's going to be fascinating is does that also lead into digitization of our company or do the companies make the mistake of saying I'm going to use this piece because it's so obvious and I get it in terms of effectiveness but I'm not going to change the other things in my normal work and my normal business this is why unfortunately I think you will see we originally said Jeff you remember 40% to maybe as high as 45% of the Fortune 500 wouldn't exist in a decade and perhaps 70% of the startups wouldn't exist in a decade that adventure capital back I now think unfortunately you're going to see 20 to 35% of the startups not exist in two years and I think it's going to shock you with the number of Fortune 500 companies that do not make this transition so where you're leading this that I completely agree with is the ability to take this terrible event with all of the issues and again thank our healthcare workers for what they've been able to do to help so many people and deal with the world the way it is as my parents who were doctors taught me to do not the way we wish it was and then get your facts, prepare for the changes and get ready for the future the key will be how many companies do this on the area Omesh has responsibility for customer experience I think you're going to see almost all companies focus on that so it can be an example of perhaps how large companies learn to use the new technology not just video capability but AI assistance for the agents and then once they get the feel for it just like we got the feel for these meetings change their rhythm entirely it was a dinner in New York virtually when we stopped six weeks ago traveling that was supposed to be a bunch of board meetings customer meetings that was easy but we were supposed to have a dinner with Shake Shack's CEO and we were supposed to have him come out and show how he does cool innovation and we had a bunch of enterprise companies and a bunch of media and subject matter expertise we ended up canceling it and then we said why not do it virtually and to your point we did it in 24 different locations after people remember six weeks ago and never even used Zoom we had milkshakes and hamburgers and french fries delivered to their home and it was one of the best two-hour meetings I've seen but the future is this now it's going to change dramatically and Amesh I think is going to be at the front edge of how enterprise companies understand how their relationship with their customers is going to completely transform using AI conversational AI capability speech recognition, et cetera Yeah I mean Amesh we even really got into the uniform what you guys are all about but you're supporting call centers using natural language technology both on the inbound and I'll let you give us the overview but you're playing on so many kind of innovation spaces the main interaction now with customers and a brand is either through the mobile phone or through a call center and that's becoming more and increasingly digitized the ability to have a voice interaction with a machine, fascinating and really I think revolutionary and kind of taking, you know getting us away from these stupid QWERTY keyboards which are supposed to slow us down on purpose is still the funniest thing ever that we're still using these QWERTY keyboards so I wonder if you can share with us a little bit about, you know, kind of your vision of natural language and how that changes the interaction with people and machines I think your TED talk was really powerful and I couldn't help but think of, you know kind of mobile versus land lines in terms of transformation, transforming telecommunications and rule and hard to serve areas and then actually then adding the AI piece to not only make it better for the front-end person but actually make it for the person servicing the account. Absolutely Jeff. So Unifor with the company that I founded in 2008 and we were talking about it's such a coincidence that I founded the company in 2008 the year of the Great Recession and here we are again talking in midst of the impact that we all have because of COVID. Unifor does artificial intelligence and automation products for the customer service industry. Call centers as we know it have fundamentally for the last 20 to 30 years not have had a major technology disruption. We've seen a couple of waves of business model disruption where call centers, you know started to become offshore in locations in Asia, India and Mexico where our calls started to get routed around the world internationally but fundamentally the core technology in call centers up until very recently hadn't seen a major shift with artificial intelligence which with natural language processing speech recognition available in over 100 languages and in the last year or so automation and RPA sort of adding to that mix there's a whole new opportunity to rethink what customer service would mean to us more in the future. As I think about the next five to seven years with 5G happening with 15 billion connected devices you know my five year old daughter she you know as the first thing she does when she enters the house from a playground she goes to talk to her friend called Alexa she speaks to Alexa. So you know these next generation of users and technology users will grow up with AI and voice and NLP all around us. And so their expectation of customer service and customer experience is going to be quantum times higher than some of us have from our brands. I mean today when a microwave or a TV doesn't work in our homes our instinct could be to either go to the website of the brand and try to do a chat with the agent or do a 800 number phone call and get them to visit the house to fix the TV with like I said with 5G with TV and microwave and refrigerator becoming intelligent devices you know I could totally see my daughter telling the microwave why aren't you working? And you know that question might still get routed to a remote contact center. Now the whole concept of contact center the word has center in it which means in the past we used to have these physical massive locations where people used to come in and put on their headsets to receive calls like John said more than ever we will see these centers become dispersed and virtual. The channels with which these queries will come and would no more be a just a phone it would be the microwave, the car, the fridge and the receivers of these calls would be anywhere in the world sitting in their home or sitting on a holiday in the Himalayas and answering these situations to us. You know I was reading just for everyone to realize how drastic this shift has been for the customer service industry there are over 14 million workers who work in contact centers around the world like I said the word center means something here all of them right now are working remote. This industry was never designed to work remote. Enterprises who fundamentally didn't plan for this. To your point Jeff who thought digitization or automation was a project they could have picked next year they were sitting on the fence they will now no more have a choice to make this adjustment. There's a report by a top analyst firm it said by 2023 up to 30% of customer service representatives would be remote, well guess what? We just blew past that number right away and most of the CEOs that I talked to recently tell me that now that the shift has happened about 40% of their workforce will probably never return back to the office they will always remain a permanent virtual workforce. Now when the workforce is remote you need all the tools and technology and AI that A if on any given day seven to 10% of your workforce calls in sick you need bots like the Amazon's Alexa taking over a full conversation Uniform has a protocol Akira which does that in call centers. Most often when these call center workers are talking we have the experience of being put on hold because call center workers have to type in something on their keyboard and take notes. Well guess what today AI and automation can assist them in doing that making the call shorter allowing the call center workers to take a lot more calls in the same timeframe. And I don't know your experience but a couple of weekends ago the modem in my house wasn't working I had a seven hour wait time to my service provider seven hour I started calling at 8 30 was somewhere around three to four for a club finally after call backs wait call back wait that it finally got resolved it was just a small thing I just couldn't get to the representative. So the enterprises are truly struggling technology can help they weren't designed to go remote think about it and some of the unique challenges that I've heard now from my customers is that how do I know that my call center representative who I've trained over years to be so nice and empathetic when they take a P break or a bio break they don't get their 10 year old son to attend a call how do I know that because now I can't know more physically check in on them how do I know that if I'm a bank there's compliance there's nothing being said that isn't supposed to be said because in a center in an office a supervisor can listen in when everyone's remote you can't do that. So AI automation monitoring supporting aiding human beings to take calls much better and drive automation as well as AI takeover parts of a complete call by the way of being a bot like Alexa are sort of the things that Unifor does and I just feel that this is a permanent shift that we are seeing while it's happening because of a terrible reason that the virus that's affecting human beings but the shift in business and behavior is going to be permanent in this industry. Yeah, I think so. You know, it's funny I had Martin Mika son or excuse me yeah, Martin Mika is a part of this series and I asked him he's been doing distributed companies since he was doing my SQL before sunbottom and he was funny. It's like it's actually easier to fake it in an office than when you're at home because at home all you have to show is your deliverables. You can't look busy. You can't be going to meetings. You can't be doing things at your computer. All you have to show is your output and he said it's actually much more efficient and it drives people to manage to the output, manage to what you want. But I want to shift gears a little bit before we let you go and really talk a little bit about the role of government. And John, I know you've been very involved with the Indian government and the French government trying to help them in their kind of entrepreneurial pursuits and Unifor I think was founded in India right before you moved over here. You know, we've got this huge stimulus package coming from the US government to try to help these people can't pay their mortgage. A lot of people aren't so fortunate to be in digital businesses. It's $2 trillion. So it's kind of a thought experiment. I'm like, well, how much is $2 trillion? And I did the cash balance of the Fang companies, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix and Alphabet just looking at Yahoo Finance, the latest one that was there. It's $333 billion compared to $2 trillion. Even when you add Microsoft's $133 billion on top, it's still shy, still shy of $500 billion. And really the federal government is really the only people in a position to make kind of sweeping these types of investments. But should we be scared? Should we be worried about kind of this big shift in control? And do you think these companies with these big balance sheets, as you said, John, priorities change a little bit. Should it be, you know, keep that money to pay the people so that they can stay employed and pay their mortgage and go by groceries and maybe get takeout from their favorite restaurant versus kind of what we've seen in the past where there's a lot more stock buybacks and kind of other uses of these cash? As you said, if it's a crisis and you got to cut to survive, you got to do that. But clearly some of these other companies are not in that position. So let me break into two pieces, Jeff, if I may. The first is for the first time in my lifetime, I have seen the federal government and federal agencies move very rapidly. And if you would have told me government can move with the speed we've seen over the last three months, I would have said probably not. The Fed was ahead of both the initial interest rate cuts and the Fed was ahead in terms of the slowing down, i.e. your two trillion discussion by central banks here and around the world. But right behind it was the Treasury which put on four billion on top of that. And only governments can move with this way. But the coordination with government and business and the citizens has been remarkable and the citizens being willing to shelter in place to your question about India. Prime Minister Modi spent the last five years digitizing his country and he put in place the most bandwidth of any country in the world and literally did a transformation of the currency to a virtual currency so that people could be paid online, et cetera, within it. He then looked at startups and job creation and he positioned this when an opportunity or problem came along to be able to perhaps navigate through it in a way that other countries might struggle. I would argue President Macron in France is doing a remarkable job with his innovation economy but also saying how do you preserve jobs? So you suddenly see government doing something that no business can do with the scale and the speed and an equal approach. But at the same time, many of these companies and being very candid that some people might have associated with tech for good or were tech for challenges have been unbelievably generous in giving both of the, from the CEO's pocket's perspective and the number two and three founder's perspective as well as a company giving to the CDC and giving to people to help create jobs. So I actually like this opportunity for tech to regain its image of being good for everybody in the world and leadership within the world. I think it's a unique opportunity. For my startups, I've been so proud, Jeff, I didn't have to tell them to go do the right thing with their employees. I didn't have to tell them that you've got to treat people human lives first, the economy second but we can do both in parallel. And you saw companies like Springfors suddenly say how can I help the World Health Organization anticipate through social media where the next spread of the virus is gonna be. A company like Bloom Energy with what KR did there, rebuilding all of the ventilators that were broken here in California, of which about 40% were out of the stock that they got because it had been in storage for so long and doing it for all of California in their manufacturing plant at cost. A company like Aspire Foods, the cricket company down in Texas who does 3D capabilities taking part of their production in 3D and saying how many thousand masks can I generate per week using 3D printers? You watch what Amesh has done and how he literally is changing people's lives and making that experience instead of being a negative from working at home perhaps to a positive and increasing the customer loyalty in the process as opposed to when you've got a seven-hour wait time on a line, not only are you probably not gonna order anything else from that company, you're probably gonna change it. So what is fascinating to me is I believe companies owe an obligation to be successful to their employees and to their shareholders but also to give back to society and it's one of the things I'm most proud about the portfolio companies that I'm a part of and why I'm so proud of what Amesh is doing and both a economically successful environment but really giving back and making a difference. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's again, there's all the doctor stuff and the medical stuff which I'm not qualified to really talk about. Thankfully we have good professionals that have the data and the knowledge and know what to do and got out ahead of the social distancing, et cetera. But on the backside, it really looks like a big data problem in so many ways, right? And now we have massive amounts of compute at places like Amazon and Google and we have all types of machine learning and AI to figure out, you know, there's kind of resource allocation, whether that be hospital beds or ventilators or doctors or nurses and trying to figure out how to sort that all out but then all of the genome work and you know, kind of all that big heavy lifting data crunching, you know, CPU consuming work that hopefully is accelerating the vaccine because I don't know how we get all the way out of this until it just seems like kind of a race to the vaccine or massive testing. So we know that it's not going to spike up. So it seems like there is a real opportunity. It's not necessarily Kaiser building ships or Ford building planes, but there is a role for tech to play in trying to combat this thing and bring it under control. Masha, I wonder if you could just kind of contrast being from India and now being in the States for a couple of years, anything kind of jump out to you in terms of the differences in what you're hearing back home and the way this has been handled. You know, it's very interesting, Jeff. I'm sure everyone is concerned that India for many reasons so far hasn't become a big hotspot yet. And you know, we can hope and pray that that remains to be the case. There are many things that the government back home has done. I think India took lessons from what they saw in Europe and the US and China. They went into a country wide lockdown pretty early. You know, pretty much when they were lower than 200 positive cases, the country went into a lockdown. And remember, this is a 1.5 billion people all together going into a lockdown. What I've seen in the US is that, you know, California thankfully reacted fast. We've all been sheltered in place. There is cabin fever for all of us, but I'm sure at the end of the day, we're going to be thankful for the steps that are taken, both by the administration of the state level, at the federal level and the medical doctors who are doing everything they can. But India, on the other hand, has taken a more aggressive stance in terms of doing a country lockdown. We just last evening went live with a university in the city of Chennai where a uniform was born. The government came up with a request, much like the US, where their government departments were getting a surge of traffic about information about COVID, the hospitals that are serving, where beds are available, whereas the testing, we stood up a voice bot with AI in less than a week in three languages, which even before the government started to advertise, we started to get thousands of calls. And this is AI answering these questions for the citizens in doing so. So it goes back to your point of, there's a real opportunity of using all the technology that the world has today to be put to good use. And at the same time, it's really partnering meaningfully with government in India, in Singapore, in Vietnam, and here in the US to make sure that happens on, you know, John's coaching and nudging. I became a part of the US-India Strategic Partnership Forum, which is truly a premier trade and commerce body between US and India. And I today co-chaired the startup program with the top startups between US and India being part of that program. And I think we got, again, tremendously fortunate and lucky with the timeline. We started working on the startup program between US and India and getting the startups together two quarters ago. And as this new regulation with the government support and the news about the $2 trillion packages coming out and the support for small businesses, we could quickly get some of the questions answered for the startups. Had we not created this body which had the ability to hold the Treasury Department and say, here are questions, can startups do A, B, and C? What do you have by way of regulation? And I think as a response to one of our letters, on Monday, the Treasury put out an FAQ on their website which makes it super clear for startups and small businesses to figure out whether they qualify or they don't qualify. So I think there's a ton that both from a individual company and the technology that each one of us have, but also as a community. How do we, all of us, meaningfully get together as a community and just drive benefit both for our people, for the economy, and for our countries, wherever we have the businesses, like I said, in US or India or parts of Asia? Yeah, it's interesting. So this is a great conversation. I could talk to you guys all night long, but I probably would hear about it later. So we'll wrap it, but I just want to kind of close on the following thought which is really, as you've talked about before, John, and as a message, you're now living, when we go through these disruptions, things do get changed. And as you said, a lot of people and companies don't get through it. On the other hand, many companies are birthed from it. People that are kind of on the new trend and are in a good position to take advantage. And it's not that you're laughing over the people that didn't make it, but it does stir up the pot. And it sounds like, unless you're in a really good position to take advantage of this new kind of virtual world, this new digital transformation that's just not waiting anymore. I love your stat. They're going to move X percentage out of the call center over some period of time. And then it's basically snap your fingers everybody out without much planning. So just give you the final word, kind of advice for people as they're looking forward. And Amesh will get you on another time, because I want to go deep dive into natural language. I think it's just a fascinating topic in the way that people are going to interact with machines and get rid of the stupid QWERTY keyboard. But let me get kind of your last thoughts as we wrap this segment. Amesh, we'll let you go first. You want to go first? I'll go first. My last thoughts are first for the entrepreneurs, everyone who's sort of going through this together. I think in difficult times is when real heroes are born. I read a quote that when it's a sunny day, you can't overtake too many cars, but when it's raining, you have a real opportunity. And the other one that I read was when fishermen can't go out fishing because of the high tide, they come back and mend their nets and be ready for the time that they can go out. So I think there's no easy way to say this is a difficult time for the economy health-wise. I hope that we can contain the damage that's being done through the virus. But some of us have the opportunity to really take our products and technology out there more than usual. Unifor particularly has a unique opportunity. The contact center industry just cannot keep up with the traffic that it's seeing around the world across US, across Asia, across India. And the need for AI and automation would never be pronounced more than it is today. As much as it's a great business opportunity, it's more of a responsibility as I see it that can we scale up as fast as the demand is coming and really come out of this with a much stronger business model. John has always told me in final words to always paint the picture of what you want to be a year or two out. And I see Unifor being a much stronger AI plus automation company in the customer service space, really transforming the face of call centers and customer service, which have been forced to rethink their core business value in the last few weeks. And every fan-sitter who would think that digitization and automation was an option that they could think of in the future years would be forced to make those decisions now. And I'm just making sure that my team and my company and I am ready to geared to that great responsibility and opportunity that's ahead of us. John, give you the final word. So Jeff, I don't know if you can still hear me. We went blank there, maybe for me to follow up. We gotcha. Yeah, and it, Chamele Perez taught me a lot about life and dealing with life the way it is, not the way you wish it was, so did my parents. But he also taught me it always looks darkest just before the tide switches and you move on to victory. I think the challenges in front of us are huge. I think our nation knows how to deal with that. I do believe the government has moved largely, pretty effectively to give us the impetus to move and that if we continue to flatten the curve on the issues with the pandemic, if we get some therapeutic drugs that dramatically reduce the risk of death for people that get the challenges the worst and over time, the vaccine, I think you look to the future, America will rebound. It will be rebounding around startups, new job creation, using technology in every business. So not only is there a light at the tunnel, at the end of the tunnel, I think we will emerge from this a stronger nation, a stronger startup community, but it depends on how well we work together as a group. And I just want to say, Amesh, it's an honor to be your coach and I learned from you as much as I give back. Jeff, as always, you do a great job. Thank you for your time today. Thank you both and I look forward to our next catch up. Stay safe, wash your hands and thanks for spending some time with us. Well, I just want to say I hope and pray that all of us can get together and follow up real quick and in person and doing fist bumps, not shake hands or probably in the Mustang. Thank you, it's an honor. Thank you very much. All right, that was John and Amesh. You're watching theCUBE from our Palo Alto studios. Thanks for tuning in. Stay safe, wash your hands, keep away from people that you're not that familiar with and we'll see you next time. Thanks for watching.