 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. In February of 1991, armed forces entered the villages of Kunan and Pushpura and Kashmir under the guise of a cordon and search operation. They then proceeded to drag men out of their homes to interrogation centres where the men were tortured all night and the women were raped in their houses. It has been 27 years and no justice has come till now. So, today we have with us Seba Hussain who is an independent researcher who has been working on issues in Kashmir since 2000 and is also an activist for AIDWA and she's going to talk to us about the incident of mass rape and why we still haven't seen anything, any action by the state to condemn the actions of the army from that day. So, Seba, firstly, the incident of Kunan and Pushpura is known because the victims, the survivors of that day came out and talked about it which itself must have been very difficult because sexual violence already has so much social stigma attached to it. So, how does that stigma get compounded in an area like Kashmir? It is a fact that it is very difficult once it has happened because it's rampant in Kashmir's sexual violence against women and I have interviewed a lot of women not just in Kunan, Pushpura, not as much but particularly families of militants where the army raids take place and what happens to women in situations where army comes in and raids and there are times when there are hundreds of soldiers who walk into a house and cordon and search operations also where men are taken out and women are left inside the house and that is where it happens a lot and where army is concerned actually they always bring in these notions of the patriotism of people and nationalism etc. How does that happen? How can you connect the idea of nationhood to something like sexual violence to something like rape because there have been reports of incidents where soldiers have yet jai hind before raping a woman. I believe so, that is what women say also and also because the way gender is constructed women are supposed to be or presumed to be the repositories of honour and everything else that so that is why they are specifically targeted to punish the men who may not be militants, may be militants whatever but this is a clear message to terrorize the entire community by targeting women in situations like this and what happened in Konan Pushpura actually epitomizes because the kind of impunity that persists in Kashmir despite all kinds of struggles that have taken place I think this incident actually at 27 years and still today there is firstly for the state to acknowledge and recognize that this happens they refuse to do that because once they do it they have to also take action the first thing is to deny and that is what has happened despite the kind of struggle and hundreds of times women have come out to give their testimony their struggle begins from the very beginning where they go to file an FIR if at all and it's mostly the men of the family who would go and the police would refuse to file an FIR especially if it's against the armed forces or so that also becomes a big problem and the fact that they are all protected under this whole thing of AFSPA makes it that much more difficult actually but it's not only AFSPA because of which this happens it is a culture of impunity and also the silence that gives rise to it as well as the government or the state which is actually complicit in this whole thing because this is particularly so in a case of counterinsurgency where it is a strategy to... In this case, in Konan Poshpora's case of course as you said impunity, the culture of impunity the kind of impunity the army enjoys in Kashmir is of course the reason why there has been no action against them and in this case in particular the impunity has been I think far more than what we have seen because all aspects of the state machinery came together to protect the army Of course How did that happen? What? No because it's not as the FIRs have not been filed if you have seen that book where young women have come together who have actually they were not even born when this incident took place but what prompted them also was the silence in the rest of the country we get up on every case of rape and 16 December when it happened I mean the entire country was up in arms and when I was talking to some of these young women they said we have to forge our own struggle we have to find our own means of doing it because nobody seems to bother when it happens in Kashmir and particularly because it is the army no one raises the issue of sexual violence and the impunity with which it is done so I think the women also realize that where Kashmir is concerned is it all right or legitimate that a soldier does it and in rest of India when a woman is raped it becomes a big problem but what about here so I think it's very important and what it epitomizes on the one hand is the impunity and the fact that despite all the struggle from civil society, from the women's survivors themselves who have come out repeatedly and the kind of methods that are used to actually intimidate them to push it and not even let the whole legal procedure take place actually and that is what happened in the case of Konan Pushpura you take Shopya and you take this this is not the only there the two women but otherwise also there are several instances that are not as big as Konan Pushpura but mass rapes have taken place in Kashmir but till date there is no justice and I think this struggle will continue and it's a shame actually that rest of the democratic forces or the voices in India even the women's movement which issues statements and is concerned about it I think we need to take a very solid stand on it and make sure that justice is done as we said when rape or sexual violence happens in other parts of the country people unite, people come on the roads that's what we saw in the 2012 Delhi gang rape case and because of the army impunity and because it's the army which is committing these crimes in Kashmir, the people do not raise their voices as much that is one reason but you also think it is because Kashmir itself isn't seen as such an integral part of India why other Indians they see Kashmir as very integral to India because that is the propaganda of the government the justice that is done in other parts of India the legal procedures that are followed in other parts of India why is it that in Kashmir it is always stalled and why is it that efforts are made to cover the crimes committed by the army why is it that the government is not accountable why is it that the state is not accountable at all and this is one of the way you punish by saying you are subversive, you have this struggle you want independence, this is what we can do to you and now even with the decrease in numbers of active militants now it's again on the rise mainly because of these reasons because after what happened in 2016 also in Kashmir after Burma Mani the kind of upheaval, the kind of mass uprising that took place how do they stop it? this is one of the ways while you pillage villages while you loot, while you rape everything this is the message they are sending fall in line or this is what we are going to do to your women and to the men, hundreds and thousands of them who have disappeared mass graves in Kashmir I mean it is unbelievable that we should still be silent about it I think it should have been a big movement and this time because it is the 27th anniversary women in Kashmir have also gotten up to there is a women's resistant day that they have started last few years and this time they have decided that to make it as big as possible not just within India but also at a global level another reason that there has been no action is also because it is the army and the protection they enjoy under armed forces special powers act and the fact that sexual violence by armed officers is also put under the purview of Afspar what does that say about how we are dealing with these crimes in Kashmir? because as long as you have Afspar where they enjoy this kind of impunity they know they can go to any extent and just removing Afspar I don't think is going to stop the rapes in Kashmir I do believe and also not that it should not be repealed there is more to it because already in these 27-30 years of militancy itself I think the counter insurgency measures that have been undertaken by the army, by the state and no accountability and the culture of impunity from here to there all over at every level at your personal level, at social level in the community everywhere and that it gets more and more strengthened actually and that becomes a big problem