 Hello Dr. Frank Teike. Glad to meet you. My name is Noel Lolo. Noel. Yes, thank you. We're going to talk about, we're going to use your experience as a retired faculty in UC to have some information on ways to help with its history. So have a few questions we're going to ask you. I will try. Alright, thank you. So first of all, when did you come to the University of Woodbrook here? Well, I started as an undergraduate student here in 1956 and I got my bachelor's and my master's here and then I went to, I was on the faculty before I left, I wanted to University of Michigan and I stayed there for two years and then I came back here and so probably I've been here on these staff, I was a research assistant after I got my undergraduate degree. So I guess if you consider that would be 1961 and I retired in 94 or 94, 33 years. I was on the staff or faculty, joined the faculty I think in 64 if I remember right. So what basically do you brought to here? Well back then in high school we used to take a test and I would tell you what you should go to an aptitude test and mine said I should either be a pilot or an engineer. If I put the two together and became an aeromotico engineer. Alright, so I want to know some things you're passionate about. Is there something you're passionate about? You're passionate about? What you're passionate about piloting and like you just said I'm an aeronautical engineer and what you like passionate about it or? Well the co-op program and the university is one of the things that attracted me here because neither of my parents went to college and we were not wealthy by long shots. I knew I had to pay my own way to college and the co-op program I felt gave me a way to do that. It worked very well. Of course the tuition was a lot less. When I went to undergraduate school here we went in engineering we went three eight-week terms. It was $330 a term so less than $1,000 a year a lot less than it is now. Of course K wasn't as good as it is now either, but it all evened out. Okay What did you want to teach? I was interested in going into administration too, which I did after a number of years. I was in the Aero department and after I got my undergraduate degree a new department head came in named Paul Harrington and he asked me if I would stay on. They had a research contract at Wright Patterson Air Force Base and he asked me if I'd stay on and I did and never left. I had two job offers one in California one in Texas. I put them on hold for two years but I never got out of school. Never left. Okay so you teaching engineering. Can you describe how like the classes were to you and like what did you hope your students like would learn from you and take away? And also did you have like any favorite students you want to share with us too? No too numerous to mention but I enjoyed teaching. I enjoyed, which kept me young and I enjoyed teaching. I taught foot mechanics. I taught stability and control a number of other courses. When you're you're come into the department you always get that the courses nobody else wants for a few years you know until you get you get some seniorities. I taught most of the courses but it I just enjoyed teaching. Once I went into administration in about 1993 I guess. I continued to teach but I was traveling so much that it was difficult and I felt guilty having my graduate assistant teach so I stopped teaching. Well I just about 1983 or 1984 but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the students. I enjoyed the feedback from the students. I enjoyed especially when I was started there were very few women in engineering and I enjoyed the women in engineering a lot because I what I found is a lot of the young men that come into engineering they go into engineering because their father was an engineer or their grandfather was an engineer and they really it just pushed into it whereas the girls coming in they wanted to be an engineer they were always much more enthusiastic. We didn't have many but the ones that I had they were very good very good students and hopefully still continued. Now the number of ladies in engineering. I have a daughter who's an engineer so we encouraged her so that I enjoyed teaching the ladies very much because of their enthusiasm for engineering. Yeah I remember looking in one of the 1969 year books and I do it like so many guys are just one girl that holds the house. The girls back then were either in chemical engineering or civil engineering. We didn't have any at Arrow when I graduated well we only had our graduating class it's only 17 I think so we didn't have a whole lot of people back then now at Arrow I think and there's about a hundred a year so it's completely different now much larger and good. So would you want to take us through your hiring process like how you go ahead like the story if there's any interest in story about your hiring process. But hiring or hiring like getting into the university like is there like. Well I guess the department had Paul Harrington helped me a lot he knew I was interested in administration and he had a friend George Lee was he's named who's director of research and he had a medical problem he was out of his office for several months and Dr. Harrington talked to the president who was Walter Langston at that time and they appointed me as a acting director of research I sort of for three months I sort of really got interested then so when I came back from Michigan in 1970 I guess it was in 73 when Warren Benes 72 or 73 when Warren Benes was the president he appointed Guy Stern if the first title was that university dean for research and advanced studies long name and Guy hired me as an assistant university dean take care of the research aspects of that and that's sort of what developed and then they hired when Guy left he went the Wayne State of I remember right they hired well we had hired a fellow by the name of Al Yates who is an associate university dean and then when Guy left Al was appointed University Dean Al went on to become president of the University of Colorado State Colorado State University and Al stoned very very well he's retired now so I just continued on and then with 1990 Yola Bingham had taken Al's place when he left to go away went to Washington State of I remember right and when Yola retired they appointed me as the interim vice president knowing I was gonna retire in a few years that was 1990 so for three years I was the interim vice within it changed title the vice president for research and university dean for advanced studies I don't know why they just these long names and if they did and I did that door I retired in nineteen well stepped down in 93 and I retired in 94 so I guess one of the most interesting things that happened to me when I was in that position was that even when I was an associate vice president the research institutes reported to me Al set it up that way and one of the institutes reported to me was the Institute of Engineering Medicine and Neil Armstrong was a director of that and why team taught a course with Neil Armstrong too which was very interesting from the point of view with systems engineering there was a professor of electrical engineering chemical engineering and myself and Neil chemical person did the chemistry it is all electrical duty like I did the math part and Neil did the systems part and the funny part was that we sat in on each other's lectures each of us when we were lecturing and when we lecture normal students were doing other things or paying attention but it's not no but with Neil I don't think they breathe for 45 minutes but the interesting thing he was he was a very good professor I we had a meeting with them they had a contract with right Pat they were doing some kind of engineering and medicine study I think of an oxygen system or something in an aircraft and in any case in my office for this meeting I had George Riva shell who was a graduate of UC and invented the first antihistamine Benadryl George done a life for you Henry Heinleck remember Heinleck maneuver the Heinleck maneuver when you're choking on something you get under the bridge yeah he was the same as and then Neil Armstrong I had three of the most famous people in my office the same time in the school in here at UC yeah and that was kind of an interesting meeting but so there's number of highlights that I had to hear it the other thing that has changed when I started in the research office in 73 or 72 or 73 research was done but it wasn't a higher priority and now it's really grown yeah and we know one of the first intellectual property officer I hired back in about 82 or 83 if I remember right and now that office has grown and there's a lot of trade off between the ideas coming out from professors here at the university industry for they're getting the information developed at the university basic research over the industry a lot quicker now which is so important technology transfer if you would so that's one of the things that I really enjoyed doing and the individual I hired and I said he was working half time for us and now let's have a staff of about 10 people in that office amazing how it has grown grown yeah and the people here it was very interesting working with the various professors in the research office I got to work with almost the entire university medical center still pretty independent but I did toward my last three years I did work with the medical center a little more but all the research that was done funneled I mean funding of it had to be followed through our office if I got to interact with a lot of very good people intelligent people and I learned a lot I told my wife I learned something every day it seems like a calm moment learn something new the wonderful feeling so are you still involved with like what is going on now and is there like any changes you've noticed oh physical and the way they teach I mean I remember when I came in as an undergraduate student we had a dean taking things a German man very very good man but we were not here Wilson Auditorium was on the corner of right across from where D.A.P. is now where they got the temporary building more or less and we had a convocation there and it is very Germanic way he's like look to your right and actually all eight-year-old look look to your left look to your left and he said only one of you will be here five years from now in other words the other and that was true back then about one-third of the people entering engineering graduated it was a high-warsh out right it just wasn't right and now that's changed so much I mean the good students coming in good students coming back then but for some reason they felt it had flunk a number of people and that has really changed now the graduation rate is 60 70 percent which is very good and that that's one big change I think the instruction they give much more help to students back then as a student was struggling you were on your own now there are ways student oriented or faculty oriented that they can help students and that's so so wonderful for especially first-year students where they have no background their parents can't help them if they have no background for that that's a big change that I see and I think well the technology has changed I mean I had a slide rule and that's why we did problems and then when my daughter was here they had a calculator and now everything's done I mean the phone that I've got my pocket you probably have a pocket it's probably as good is the when I was up at right field I was telling you about that probably is more powerful than a 1620 IBM machine I was you took up a whole room so technology is really I work in microcenter too and like every time I come like like the prices of like a flash drives yeah how like gone so low and like people used to come in as like the we have like 16 gate flash right for like a status $2 and like people come in I'm like no back in the days this things were like so big and it caused a lot so I was like yeah it's really change I mean it's funny story my daughter if I said who's in chemical engineering and when she she graduated I remember at E4 but they had calculators and TI calculator and HP calculators but anyway her car the battery went dead and I had given her my old slide rule and taught her how to use it so she pulled out the slide rule and all the other kids were looking at her things what are you doing here and a professor came down and said I know where you got that slide rule from your father because I knew him oh okay okay she goes to DC right she graduated from here okay okay she worked with Dr. Gamble which is since I'm so old she's retired already but I think that's a different issue okay so if you'd like to talk to us about administration like some of the people like I just made it is there like some like what is your lag some those are like different if I said when I came here Walter Langston the president the owner was like the one this useless name was right yeah exactly right he's a historian very good historian and he's very formal I mean a very good man but very formal and then after he they hired Warren Benes and that was he was just the opposite Warren was just he well show the difference Langston had a driver in a limousine it took him to work and everything Warren came in got out of the limousine and bought a Jeep he used to come to campus in an open-air Jeep all the time you know he was just very very informal yeah so the difference in the styles of different presidents that we had and then Henry Winkler came in I remember right Winkler was after Benes yeah and Henry was a very good president he was a historian too and then they have to Winkler I guess was Joe Steger and that's a Steger's Center over by the football stadium now and there's they were all different type of people it's interesting working with them they're different styles so I enjoyed that then the like the styles like one being like for my one being for my I did it I fit like relationships as a student like did it how likes any significant yeah I think the way I think that Walter Langston he he really didn't interact with students too much okay whereas Warren Benes did and I think Henry Winkler did also in a different way not as informally but I think the president two presidents ago the one that went to Vancouver forgot his name he was he was the best so I mean I retired by then but he knew I think he knew the students name every student name he was I can't think of his name he left here about six or seven years ago I guess but anyway yeah the way they interact with the students I think it's very important it's different it is different styles and how the students react to that and there's a lot of when Warren Benes was here that's when we became from a city University University there's a big change there and if I said the other change was that recent it used to be that the budget of the University was funded maybe 95% by the state now if it's 25% it's a lot I mean we're someone Ohio State told me one time we're not state supported universities anymore we're state assisting universities they give us a little money so that's changed tremendously and the outside funding that the University gets is so much I remember when we got our first million dollar contract research contract here we thought it was great now they get 20 30 million dollar contracts not unusual at all especially in the medical center from the NIH contract any other things if the regulations changed we had to institute a human subjects policy that provides an interview like this before you were allowed to do that you we had to had to go through a committee to make sure you weren't in in any way endangering the student or taking away his or her rights or anything like that and the human subjects committee now has to or any federally supported research project they have to go through the human that uses subjects in any way at all physically or psychologically they have to go through that committee so the regulations have changed a lot it's made it more difficult for the University more expensive because they have to do these things from the federal government would come off the funding that they give for research here which is difficult the growth of the medical center to the medical center has grown tremendously in the last 40 years or something and I think the diversity of the students here is another thing back then there weren't a lot of students from overseas and now if you look at the population of the university it's very very significant and that's great because you get a diversity of ideas because that's one of the things that bothers me now days about university the political correctness to me a university of a place where you everybody expresses their ideas we listen your idea of me be different than mine but I'll listen to your idea and I hope you listen to my idea and then maybe we can reach some compromise and say okay I agree with you on this I disagree with that nowadays it seems like if you're you're extremely liberal or extremely conservative and they don't listen to each other and they they don't the liberals don't want the conservatives talking the conservatives don't want the liberals talking how do you how do you learn anything how do you progress if you don't have that and that really bothers me and that's one of the downsides I think that we have now it's just that people they talk a lot but they don't listen to each other and that that is something that somehow universities have to provide the leading leadership and that and I don't know about I don't I don't fall out that closely but most universities are not doing a good job I don't think because they're they're saying the conservatives forbid the liberals to liberal conservative how do you learn how do you find out about different people how do you find out about the world what the world is really like we all live on our own little shell we don't learn anything that bothers me and I think was better back before I retired we were willing to trade ideas and I may not agree with everything you said but I was willing to listen to you and vice versa I think that makes learning a lot better than it is now well that's one of the disappointments I have of universities in general not just yeah I don't think you see say better or worse than most of them not the same how you change that I don't know I wish I knew but the the growth of the university I mean when I was in administration my last years the provost and all the administrators our goal was to give the university below 36,000 students because we thought that was the most it could handle with the facilities and the faculty and head at that time and now just what is about 45,000 now something like that and it's doing very well which is which is good it's growing tremendously I think it's got better more diversified student population more diversified in the faculty population yeah which I think it's a good thing so you were here like when like I can see you experienced like the change in like diversity yeah like was that any sort of like Tom out like was it like any like how was it was it just they just from the faculty point of view I don't think there was no I mean there was change but I think they were the level of the quality of the faculty they were hired was not diminished or anything like that but matter by being improved a little bit so that was good in the number of students I think the way students were treated here where it was changed for the better I mean like when I went to work in Dallas my first co-op job was in Dallas Texas and that was 1957 I guess and afraid to say I hate to say that back as a federally aircraft plant federally owned aircraft plant and they still had colored restrooms and white restrooms and colored drinking fountain I couldn't believe it when I got down there that's the way life was that nothing that is a country we should be proud of but thank goodness that's all change for all although there's still a lot of racism is racism in the world which is too bad but different so I know okay whether like any specific incidents like events that happened that like you can remember that was really maybe like about two or three like different I have one that we studied in class that was that was like pretty much it's it looked like something that was really big during that time that was like the the breakdown of the Sun's love you didn't I don't like the ocean of this thing like that was one yeah that was one like main thing we was a video that it was those dust everywhere like were you there and like what was I was on top of one of the other okay matter of fact I took a picture of it they put it in one of the civil engineering magazines but no that was very interesting to watch that and very interesting from point of view you got big building there and it was more the reason it was imploded was it was more costly to renovate the building than to blow it up and build a new building and that's why the University went that way because it had all this asbestos in it it was so expensive to take it out and keep the people healthy while they were working so that was a that was an interesting thing to watch I was on the tower I forget the the dormitory on cowl on the top of that there was some other people watching the implosion so that was very interesting and what are the other things I'm still I just want to go a little bit still on the inclusion like from an engineering point of view like was there anything because I think like it it takes a lot of like I don't know like calculations to be able to know how to yeah your place to everything that I was not at all but they did a good job because they did come because they do that a lot now all over the world that was interesting I guess they get the sports when that was in but that's when I was undergraduate in 1661 they MC though the basketball team won the national championship that was when they had Oscar Robertson playing you well Oscar was here in 58 and 59 he came in the same year as an undergraduate that I came and we both started I didn't know him he's got a lot more publicity he he came in the same time in 1956 as I began as an undergraduate student in the basketball team for a very good day won the national championship for several years after he graduated so historically I think that was significant I think that gave the university prior to that just being a smaller I really don't remember what the enrollment was when I started there but it was probably nine or ten thousand at the most and to win the national basketball championship I think brought some recognition to the universe even though it should have nothing to do with academics the way the world is it gets written up in a paper a lot so people remote University of 690 I remember that that's the team that won the yeah okay and then when Neil Armstrong came here came here in 1972 I remember right because at that time Ron Houston was the director of the Institute of Space Sciences and I was the assistant or associate director and President Langson asked us to go to Washington to meet with Dr. Mr. Armstrong to kind of quaint him with the University and answer any questions he might have before we came if I was able to do that that was kind of a historic event in my life anyway to meet the guy who'd just been on the moon who later if I said came to University I guess those are the most historically tight things that I was involved in okay and I think that I think more recently after I retired the part of this project the emeriti start getting more involved in the University because that's a lot of some of the professors retired has such a wealth of knowledge in there his or her particular field and just to let it sit there not use it is that's not very smart so now using that more and getting more and maritime ball with that is I think a very good thing that the University is doing that's probably how this project yeah I can't remember I was on the the board the emeriti board for a couple years and when Gene Lewis who was a former provost and professor history came up with this idea and I think everybody said yeah that really is a good idea and now it's really helping I think you said gene right what you said gene gene yeah I think we met him yeah yeah he was farming of the history matter of fact I had him for history as an undergraduate student he's been here a long time he was very good professor heading for matter of fact I heading for American history in the book we use with the book written by Walter Langston okay all right so let's talk about things like like things like how did the University response to your needs do this to do that like personnel style case I don't know I don't what I want to talk figures but like how did the University respond to the needs of faculty and you especially like now there's always some tension especially since the Union the AAUP okay that started and was under Warren Dennis if I remember right for it had to be in the 70s sometime there's always some tensions there but in general I think that in our office vice president for Research University Dean we worked with the faculty pretty closely so we didn't have much of a tension I think an owl was a professor chemistry and a professor in engineering so we work pretty well sometimes the finance people in the people like that right you know responded pretty well I think there's a good working relationship it's now between the faculty and the administration it's always going to be some tension that's on the actual in any organization you have tension in between the administrators and the people who actually do the work the faculty do they do the teaching and without the faculty we won't have a university without students we want to have a university that's what you know people say about students they that's why the university is here to educate students the faculty are the ones doing the education but in general I think they responded fairly well okay and what we have this question that's what are you most proud of like what are you most proud of as being a teacher here and everything you've experienced like what are you most proud of where you can say you are proud about all what like disappointing you works in a way like is that like any major disappointment you had and like all any things that you're proud of like I think probably if I mentioned earlier the growth in the research effort and the involvement of the students in the research effort I mean now there's a lot of research projects of not only employee graduate students but also undergraduate students and that's a wonderful learning experience I mean it's one thing to listen to what's in a book and write formulas on the board or what have you but actually get involved with something with a research project and find out she don't try this doesn't always work the way you think it's going to work the book may say it's gonna work that way but not as that or whatever reason it doesn't work that way so you learn you learn so much by doing I think that's a very very important aspect of the growth in the learning process and if I said it early on the co-op program is part of that too because going out in industry and working you can see hey some ideas you learn in the university sound great but in industry they may not work as well and that I think is so important and that that is something that I think I'm proud of that the and the other thing as I mentioned earlier too is the intellectual property the growth in that area where transmitting the technology transfer from the basic research ideas generated in the university to industry and if I said we hired when I was in the office the first technology transfer manual lawyer chemical engineer by training matter of fact he got his training UC and you want to Ohio State got his master's degree and a legal degree there but we hired him from industry he was in at that time he was what he had retired from a conglomerate out of Geneva Switzerland and we he came back to the stage he was looking for part-time work and someone let me know about it before I contacted him we were able to hire him and he started the program that is now I think a very significant effort the university is using or is having which I think it's all kind of proud that we started it back in 1984 or whenever but hiring one person to work half-time and now there's a staff at least ten people taking care of it disappointments now I don't think I had any major disappointments other than if I mentioned earlier the political correctness it's okay yeah but that was that didn't happen to after I left the university in 1994 got bad but teaching if I said the reason I really enjoyed teaching I did a lot of teaching was the interaction of the students because I used to tell my wife and I said earlier you learn something every day from the students they'll come up with an idea I hadn't thought of that you know that keeps you fresh keeps you young I'm 81 years old I'm still climbing stairs with you it does help to keep you young which is good okay it's a good it's a good profession you have a chance go into it okay sir I think you mentioned Eleon like I wanted to ask like what has been the priorities of the universities do you think it has changed in a way but you mentioned Eleon about things like okay has the priorities of the universities changed in a sense yeah I think I think definitely if I said more research oriented yeah which I think some people would say well research is taking a higher priority than teaching and I don't believe that I think the two they work together research by the faculty of university can really benefit the students in a number of ways the one we talked about was the fact that students can participate in that research but the other way is keeping the faculty up to date too because they're on the cutting edge of what's happening in their field so they're going to become better teachers so I think that's extremely important I think that's one of the right priorities which is I think it's good and I think the other one is probably giving more assistance to students because they get into a university you've got to have pretty much talent anyway all right and before when I started there wasn't much help given to students you were you know throwing in the pool sink or swim if you would and nowadays there's more help and that's so important I think to get some some people develop more slowly than other people and they they haven't developed work habits and study habits and people can help them along and that's so important that the university is doing that nowadays that's very good and I might also say like the the land space of the university has increased over time how what how did it look like during like like like basically you know when it was like a municipal like university like I knew there were like buildings around like neighborhoods around like how it's changed tremendously where a lot of the buildings are was part of burnt woods at one time the medical center has grown of student union has grown tremendously seek the college conservative music CCM has grown we've expanded the campus and the buildings got I mean some of the buildings now are quite architecturally very well known by the medical center and some of the building so I think the university has grown tremendously physically and I mean you look at the budget of the university I'm sure it's over a billion dollars a year and it's physically and monetarily it has grown tremendously I mean our our endowment last time I looked was over a billion dollars I mean I pay off in comparison hard which is probably thirty four billion or something like that nevertheless it's significant so from that point of view yeah it's the neighborhoods around the university are gone now never little pockets of neighborhoods down where a lot of the the athletic facilities are there's you know the tennis courts in the soccer field and the new basketball arena that was all little neighborhoods there people were living there and in a mural games are the students participated that's where we had her murals football and baseball and things like that there are fields down in there so it's it's changed and if it's a burnt woods there's a drive to burn it woods that came up and I guess the edge of the chemistry building that was the edge of the campus right there were university drives come in but it's not even a street there anymore so physically it's changed significant way and like now amongst it is one of the problem is like parking has it ever been a prep was it ever a problem like it was always parking at a university when I was at Michigan the same way parking horrendous and any university you want to go to we are not unique there take my word for but you had no garages back then you parked on the street street fall neighborhoods because neighbors didn't like that I don't listen to the neighborhood but that happened so the yeah that's parking that's one thing about being in America when I retired I have lifetime free parking okay that's retirement benefits that I got but parking's always been a problem and it still is if any university I have a grandson that you go to University California Berkeley and that's a mess out there I had a granddaughter that went to Northwest parking terrible there it's it's uniform okay so since the sense it became like a state university how has UC been interacting with the university with the community has it done a good job of like being able to be the university for the city like I think in a way yes I think there is a lot of programs at the university have been for years and years to do or that interact with the community whether it be urban analysis or urban design or political science or what have you I liked the way the university is helping out with the education now in high school and elementary for STEM science technology engineering and mathematics participating with the old use high school there and a number of other units and I like the way the university is outreaching now to with elderly people CCM does a lot in retirement centers now they go out to like Maple Knoll with one and they have programs out there not only educational programs but CCM students come out perform out there so that I think it's very good and I think that's that's good that university continue to do that because we're called the university of Cincinnati you should interact with the community and there's always more to be done now sometimes in the university we're building a building displacing some people living there that didn't work out that that's part of development and I think who isn't the FC Cincinnati's going through that now with soccer stadium is one of those things people get displaced they get upset and I don't blame them but development has to take place take place anyway and how do you do it without hurting some people but who wasn't Abraham Lincoln said you can please all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time you can't please all the people all the time and that's a truism that that's been a big change how do you see all what you hope for the university like in your mind like what you want to see the university do well like the future of the university like how how it has increased with let's say research has become better as she said what do you want to see in that line of research like what it can be better and also like generally in the university what you want to see you see become I think one of the most important thing if I want we talked about a little bit earlier political correctness make the university what it's supposed to be that is an interchange of ideas where people listen to everybody to each other and they gain knowledge from that because if I always tell people you never learn anything by talking you learn by listening people don't listen very well so that's extremely important and I think we can never forget the purpose of the university is educate students research is important but the students have to be number one so that means the research has to be tied to the education of the students and that's extremely important and some people forget that both faculty and students so I think I would like to make sure that that's always a priority of the university research is important but the students are why we're here and the research has to be tied to students and the other thing is to get the research done here with faculty and students out so that it can benefit society and that's where technology transfer comes in which I was talking about earlier and I think the university is doing that much better they had these innovation centers now the old seers center and things like that that's extremely important you know I was in the science and engineering primarily but I think what the university does in the arts the CCM is an extremely good college they've turned out some excellent artists producers music directors things of this nature and DAP their their program that they have over there and design is one of the best in the country I mean urban design and interior design and their architectural school with the very good the medical school is excellent and they serve the community and that's growing and continues to grow not only the research but their patient care it's so that's what I would like to see university do get more active with students and research continue that I should say get more active continue their activity with the community which includes the medical center CCM the performing arts the visual arts through DAP and and humanities to I mean you to be a fully educated person you have to know something and that's one of the things that bothers me not about the university but about the world we tend to forget about history and not everything that any country in the world has done is good but you can't wipe out what the history is history is there you've got to learn from the history and do better and sometimes we don't want to do that we we ignore history now are we try to put it down and say well you know that's not part of us well it is part of us it is part of us and you've got to learn from that as part of being educated well hopefully I answered your question I ran you answered my question and also okay so is there anything like you want to say like anything that be like want to say just to help to let's say to help like people who want to know about a university later on in the future like is there anything personally you want to say or just keep an open mind open mind don't think you know everything because you don't know everything as a matter of fact I always tell people that you know if I should use the language but the more you're educated the more you learn the more you realize you don't know when you're 18 I don't know how would you want to solve you when you're 18 years old you think you know everything you know nothing you don't know all right if you said oh do you find out I didn't know that and I'm 81 now and I'm finding out I still don't know much I'm learning every day so the thing that you have to impress upon the family needs to impress upon students is you never stop learning once you stop learning that's terrible you've got in the in no matter what you do in life you're learning whether you're learning more interpersonal communications whether you're learning things about technology what you're learning about history learning about music arts what have you never stopped learning and the faculty should impress that and I think they do to the students nowadays so that to me that that's important and it's a party shot I would say I've really I've been fortunate I've really enjoyed my career at the university as a student I got a good education here I worked at when I co-op I worked with students from Georgia Tech from MIT University of Texas well all northwestern I forget we had co-op students at the chance lot aircraft where I worked and our students could hold with and back then and they still can I mean our students that graduate from here you may not hear as much about Cincinnati's Harvard or Yale or Cali Berkeley where I have a grandson going now I tried to get him to UC but he went to Cali Berkeley but anyway if you apply yourself you can get a wonderful education here they have a very productive and happy life and I was very fortunate to work here for so many years I worked with some wonderful people all the way from the janitors are all the way up to the president of the university and from my best friend worked at Cisco plant here and I still see them as a matter of fact it was wonderful it's been a wonderful career for me my family I had four children that graduated from here only one in engineering three on the winter in business they got a good education as a matter of fact I have two one granddaughter they just graduated and a granddaughter and a grandson they're here right now and they're in business down a lot of whole family business but they do so it's been fun I've enjoyed it and I've also enjoyed the interview with you it's been so enlightening yeah and I want to know like if there's any person like anyone like you would recommend for an interview and why would you like is there anyone that has that knowledge some of the people would know that you think might be interesting how he age would be if you could get him back here he's not here he's not here to get this Boulder Colorado now he'd be interested if he started a lot of things here that really were good I think other person would be when Norm Baker I think he's on your list already Norm Baker he was a provost your professor in quantitative analysis in business school and he was provost here too for a number of years and he'd be a very good person to interview oh who else yeah there's so many people I saw a list when we'd first put it together the council and the ameritain board and I forgot who else Gene was if you haven't got to do with Gene he knows a lot about the university I'm afraid to say some of the other people I would recommend no longer with us somewhere they passed away you must realize I made you want a lot of my colleagues are no longer in the world sad to say that I would recommend so I think that people gene might recommend would be would be great the other person I'm working with is David Lee Smith if you happen to know I am sure David was on the council with me he was over in DAAB if I remember right okay he was in design or architecture anyway yeah David's a good person too yeah he was on the board office there people in different fields that's the one thing that you get old you forget things too easily they come back to you but it takes a while the neurons aren't firing as well you know they're things are hidden in your make it like a computer in different file folders and you can't access them as quickly as you used it it comes to you in the middle of the night I'll wake up my wife and say are I reading from that other than that so I'm sure you get a lot of ideas yeah they're good projects I hope hope eventually something comes out I hope we'll all be able to see something yeah we have plan to put it together yeah we plan to put it together and like you we I think we send you the footage like you're able to see are we able to I think we'll select other people's footage or something or is this the honest I guess yeah so we're trying to put that all together and like I'd be used to look at that yeah I'll learn from it too yeah I don't know if people might say oh yeah I remember that now but I don't remember what I was talking to you so yeah it's a nice project thank you how long is it when do you hope to complete it all if we're in a long we're supposed to interview like three people so how many three three well how many people are doing it I think five five five yeah 15 people yeah and we are supposed to do all that and finish all that by August yeah by August yeah we have like three weeks to be able to do so next week I'm doing someone else the other week I'm doing someone else so we're trying to get ideas and like put people to have like information start up so that's basically it yeah I wish you well thank you sir good job and you were talking to you thank you sir you were quite quiet and uh yeah that's basically it I want to thank you for coming thank you appreciate it thank you young man good luck in your what are you studying by the way I'm in urban planning in what urban planning urban planning Tom Wagner was over there that's another name you might talk to Tom Wagner he was professor in urban planning if I remember right and he's retired now of course and uh he was also in a provost office he was dean of men for when we had a dean of men I don't think they have that title anymore he was dean of men for a while and then he went his associate provost or something so Tom would be and another just thought of another Maria Crepple Maria Crepple she was in uh Ohio College of Applied Science she was in English but she was in a provost office she was interesting because uh when Norm Baker was provost uh she was in charge of the interactions with the faculty we call it faculty affairs I always tease her whoa here in charge of faculty affairs all right but anyway she I don't know what she could describe to you but she had a lot of interesting cases that she had to work on that involved is it is it does it have to do with law or is it yeah okay all for profit um but you know not routinely but she got involved with all of that I was not involved much of that but there might she might not be a good person interview because you wouldn't be able to tell you a lot of the stuff yeah but Tom Wagner would be Tom Wagner would be excellent and he has a law I think he was an undergraduate student here too he got he got his doctorate from education if I remember right so uh Tom would be good for I wish you well all right thank you sir nice meeting you thank you so much thank you for setting it up and giving me my morning exercise by running up the steps with you he asked me if I want to take the elevator I wouldn't like to do that but I wasn't going to give in to him I don't want to step for you I like how to go home taking a nap for it