 fantastic. So I'm just about to start sharing your slides for you here. Just a reminder that this session is being recorded. So without further ado, let's hand over to you Dan, welcome. Thank you very much indeed. So just to introduce this particular session, it's an interactive workshop so we'll be doing some work together, hopefully a little bit like we've just in the previous workshop. So the question is about tensions in the roles and relationships and responsibilities within learning design teams and what causes them. So I'm really hoping we can collaborate on talking about this particular issue and see how it fits with your experiences. And also I'll be covering a few things that might be interesting from literature which talks a little bit about this. Just going to move the slide on. So first of all, could I just ask you to put something in the chat for me which is about your job title and role and having just listened to the feminist discussion, I realized I put Postman in there. So forgive me for my misdemeanor there. But what sort of role do you have within your establishment and whereabouts you from would be a really helpful start just to get a feel for who's in the room when we're talking about this particular issue. Great, thanks. I can see the chat coming through there. I move on because we have a lot to do but I'll keep my eye on that and see who's using what terminology. It's interesting to see what sorts of different terminologies there are learning designers, educational development, teachers, instructional designers. So a real mix which is fantastic, exactly what I was hoping and it should lead to an interesting discussion. So this is the session which I'm just going to give you a quick overview of what the digital education services like leads. Hope that'll be interesting and then position this subject with a few papers. We're going to split into groups and talk about that and then report back. So we're going to use Padlet for that but I'll be introducing that later. Firstly, a bit of an overview. I'm actually a late comer to studying a PhD. I've been teaching for about 14 years. Before that I was 20 years as a product designer. So I'm getting on a bit but I've decided to do a PhD and this is the subject. So it's about these roles and relationships. I'm not using this information as data today. I'm just really trying to get some background information to share my thoughts at the moment. So on the screen there we've got a kind of timeline if you like of creating a learning design on the left and then through to delivery on the right hand side. And I'm interested in the kind of iteration and design phases that happen within the learning design phase and content writing and production and how people work together during those phases. So my background is I'm a designer. So I've used a lot of design process in my career and I'm bringing that to this PhD. Quick review of the DEZ online learning teams. This is just one part of the digital education service at Leeds. It covers things like partnerships. Also covers the digital education system. So it's very broad but this is just the online learning team. So head of online learning obviously. And then we've got on the left hand side we've got a couple of streams which both output courses. There might be ODL courses, online distance learning or future learn MOOCs or other types of professional or microcredential courses. So we've got two streams. One is more about the ODL online distance learning. So I recently with them created a online masters. So that would be the stream for that. We've got a digital education manager. We've got four course design managers, two lead instructional designers and then digital education officers who might support students or staff delivering for example. The second stream is more about building MOOCs and professional certificate courses. And you can see there's no education officer but there are 10 lead instructional designers. On the right hand side, that's our production, our creative team if you like. Just give you the numbers in the boxes, the numbers of people. So I thought I'd give you an idea of the sort of teams that I've been working with. The team that I've worked with, I'm actually an academic. So I've been a subject matter expert if you like, working with particularly the left hand stream, which is the teams developing these online courses, which are credit bearing. This is a visualization of what a group or a team might look like at least. Starting off with a project manager and we're surrounding the development of this course. So on the left hand side, we've got the SVE, the subject matter experts. I imagine you're familiar with that term. And then we've got maybe there's presenters involved in that or other academics involved in that small team. The right hand side, we've got the course design manager at the bottom there. And then the team that develop after the course is designed the instructional design as a production script editors and animators. So it's just an overview of kind of visualization of a simplistic view my view of what that might look like as a team. And the interesting bit I'm interested in is the red bit the red arrows that sort of roll that's going on between the two sides of it if you like. I'm not going to talk very much about these papers. I'm going to move on. But these are the three papers I'm going to talk about. And there's some gaps in this literature around. And the bottom there, that's the gaps is the written in orange. And about the convergence of leadership and instructional design in the middle there there's not much about investigating the characteristics and effective collaboration in these projects on the right hand side. And one of the outcomes of futures I was that working with faculty was a problem. And that's kind of the role and relationships I'm talking about in this I'm going to quickly go through those. So these were the examples that came out of this drysdale. And I think it was a thesis which was about better leadership. And I'm using the term instructional design and we could have a debate probably for the whole half an hour about what terms we could use for instructional design, or is it a learning designer or what should the title be a course designer. So I'm using the term instructional design to move in collaboration and partnership with faculty in course design pedagogical consultations with faculty and course quality initiatives. And that's taken from this drysdale thesis. So these are the things that came out of the thesis that that research did having dedicated instructional designer roles, centralized structures, which is what we've got leads with academic reporting lines, positional parity. That's an interesting issue and to be empowered. And the size of the scale of the team in comparison with the Saga University were useful or beneficial things to have. The second paper is an interesting one about by Bauer et al about the characteristics that really you need to have if you're a course designer or if you're working with staff and faculty and I think it's a really broad role. And my experience is been on the other side of it being the staff being the being the faculty if you like being the course, the subject matter expert. But a lot of different sort of characteristics are required. It's interesting paper to read about what came out of those. And the last one I very quickly is about the sorts of categories of responsibilities that came out of intentional futures in 2016. So this is again about instructional designers or course design managers and they're actually designing, they're managing, they're training people and they're supporting. So there's a really broad, I mean, these, this is where a chameleon type thing comes in. So I'll move on, but this is just to give some background about the position the kind of discussion we're going to have and hopefully that's been useful. But also your own experience from your own facilities from your own departments. So we'll jump into groups in a moment. I just wanted to cover a couple of questions that I was hoping we'd talk about in these groups and come back and then share what we think about them. And these are the two questions, what are the tensions that exist in team based course design? And how and then how can these tensions be overcome? So maybe what you're already doing or what could be done in the future? So I'm using this course design idea because I mean, that's what I'm interested in. But it might be I'm interested in relationships between instructional designers and faculty if you like with staff. So it might be about elements of a course design. Maybe you've not worked on entire course, but that might be how you use it just an element of. So the way I'm going to ask you to participate in this is through a padlet. So I've just put into the chat there a link to this padlet, which this padlet has the link to the four different groups. So in a moment, I'm going to ask the great team to put you into four different groups randomly. So if you could take this link or we'll drop this link into the groups as well, but you can then visit the particular padlet for your group using this link. Hopefully that's super clear, hoping it will be. And this is what we're going to do. So if you can comment in padlet, if you haven't used padlet quick overview, you can click on that red button with the pencil that will allow you to put a comment in your composition at wherever you like, or you can double click on the page or click on those comment pads that I've created there. So or you can add a comment in the group chat and say, please, you know, if you'd like to drop this in for me, I can't type it in because an iPad or whatever you're using that would work. So we're going to take 10 minutes to that. Let me just check the time. Yeah, we've got about just less than 10 minutes. Then we'll come back and have a chat about it. If you could nominate, if you could nominate somebody to come back and chat, that would be that would be great. So could we put the people into into the four groups? Would that be would that be okay at this point? And we'll see how we get on. Brilliant. So we're in breakouts now. So if you you should be able to move yourself into. Drop in and make people have got this link. If that's yeah. Thank you for doing that. Hi, Dan. Hopefully that's all going well and make it. We've got five more minutes for coming. Yeah, it looks it looks like it's going really well. So padlet seems to be working. I'm quite pleased about that is hopefully it'll be an interesting discussion when they come back. So I was a bit worried about it being a bit off center from learning technologists. I don't know what you think about that, but I think that one of the things about learning in my personal opinion, one of the things with learning technologies is that my ties are always looking to broaden their knowledge. So and and they get to play with tools. So I think you've ticked all the boxes. Right. Well, they seem a very committed bunch of people. I've got to say I've not been to this conference before or really, you know, we've got learning technologists, but they're sort of faculty based and they're not quite as they don't seem to have as deeper sort of. Interest, I don't know, broader background, but perhaps I'm underestimating what they do. And I think that's typically what we do as, you know, faculty staff underestimate what they can contribute. But it seems a very broad role in learning, learning technologists. I think so. I think it's it's for me, it's primarily a support role. So more often than not, it's drawing on the expertise of whoever you're supporting. So things that they're familiar with and comfortable with and just trying to put it with, you know, what you what we understand is effective practice. So yeah, I see us as the enabler, you know, it's enabling other people to do what they already do well, but in a slightly different way. And so if you want to bring people back earlier, that I can do that for three minutes left on the timer here. They seem to be getting somewhere. I've got the groups up here. So group one aren't doing too much, but the other group seem to be populating quite well. I guess we we've got about 10 minutes left. So let's do it at 10 to in a minute or so. That'll be sometimes the best bit of the discussion comes right at the end, doesn't it? So yeah, it's also it's quite abrupt. We've let board collaborate when people come back. So we might have people in mid conversation. So yes, I'll just stop. It's a shame you can't just broadcast to the group. Oh gosh. So welcome back everyone. Sorry for the abruptness. I think I maybe lost my mic. Hopefully you can hear me. But I'm just going to bring things to close and I think we can just ask some people to draw some facts on this. That's great. Thank you very much for doing that. I do apologize for all that abruptness. It does happen a little bit like that in collaborate, but I could see there are some good discussions going on and it would be good to share across the group. So could I ask someone from group one to think about sharing back their thoughts? I think I can see you've got a few things on there. If I can share my can I share my screen or yeah, I should be able to do that, shouldn't I? So let's share with this one. So this would be group one. I'll just focus through this this this slide. Is anybody there from group one who Oh, would we need to pass them a mic? Is that mic should be anyone hear me? Oh, yes, we can hear you. Okay. Okay, so I'm Danielle from group one and in our group, a few things that we identified what the most obvious one was the the issues between the subject matter expert and the process. The subject matter expert doesn't always understand the process. It's about not them not having enough time or prioritizing the process. There can be tensions and tensions between affordances and pedagogy. Yeah, there is often a misunderstanding of what pedagogy is and how it can be expressed properly using effective tools using the right tools. And in terms of organizational structure, if you have an organizational culture that is too hierarchical, you know organizational cultures that were in the past more prominent where it was more punitive and that's often not effective. Whereas if you have an organizational culture that is more innovative that invites creativity, which is what the course design process is supposed to be. It's supposed to be creative. It's supposed to be innovative. So if you have an organizational culture that supports that, there's more likely to be more effective course design. And that's all. Thank you. Thank you. That's brilliant. I love that. Talking about the creativity aspect of it. That's very close to my heart as a designer. So I would absolutely agree with you. It should be a creative process. Often it's not enforcement or that creativity is taken out of it in some way. That's great. Thank you very much. I'll bring up group two if that's all right. Let's have a look. I'll try and get it all on screen. There's quite a lot of it in group two. Who would like to talk from group two and give us a quick overview? That was a fantastic overview group one. Thank you very much. So group two, I'm just wondering if anybody's going to be brave enough to talk this through. It looks like some very interesting stuff. Even drawn arrows on things. So perhaps I'll pick up on this. If anybody comes in from group two, please interrupt me, but I'll try and interpret this. So maintaining interest from SMEs. So SMEs experiencing learning design as a challenge to their teaching. Interesting. So challenging that position. Very interesting. So you've got some arrows going on here. So let's take those. So who does which bit? A lack of understanding of individual roles if the team members have similar skills. And I guess there's going to be some overlap there. So a solution there which is linked very kindly is project management, allocation of tasks. I think that's a really interesting idea of really talking about who's got which role and who does what. Time and availability, I think that is a given really. And often certainly in our area that the SME, the academic, doesn't really get allocated time in the same way as perhaps the learning designer or course design manager does. And tools not being understood. So I think that's great. What I'll do is I'll jump on to group three if that's OK. And hopefully someone from group three will actually do a better job explaining that slide than I did with group twos. Could anybody join us from group three? I'd be delighted if you would. Is the problem with the microphone is? I can if you like. I just can't read your screen there very well. So I'm going to go and try and find my version of it. So we only talked about the tensions really. We weren't sure how much time we had, but we focused on how there would be different ideas about how learning activities should be designed or how the overall design process of the course should work. So for example, the person whose program it is who's leading that team might assume that they would have design control. Actually, the individuals working on different of the course would have their own professional identities are very bound up and I think design should work. So that creates if you were having to ask someone to compromise on what they think is best. And so there's a lot of emotions bound up in it. That was what most of our discussion was around. That's brilliant. Thank you very much for that. That's really interesting. Are you happy to leave it there? And I'll jump on to before. Thank you very much for contributing. That was really interesting. And particularly about the emotional side of it and about people getting tied up in, you know, who does what, whose emotional tied to which particular aspect of the design. And also about what designing actually is, what the process is. So it looks like Group 4 had a fantastic discussion here. Who were from Group 4? I'm really hoping that someone will come forward and then join me. I have to admit we didn't agree on anyone who was going to share. So hopefully people remind us. I think ours can really be summed up as there's a lot of stuff about project management and good project management. Having time, deciding roles, deciding outcomes. And I think a good half of our stuff here doesn't necessarily isn't so much based on cost design, but on good project management and making sure people are working together and managing their outcomes and the tasks properly. But then there's quite a smattering of political issues there and as well tension between instructional designers and lecturers, what's possible versus what they might want and other areas of conflicts that we came up with in there as well. So what requirements versus what tools will let people do. I think it was something we come up with as well and time. I think time was a key one you'll see throughout both sides. One of the key controls is if people can get dedicated time to work on this, preferably in real time, that can have a huge impact. Brilliant. Thank you very much for sharing that. Really, really interesting. Let me just stop sharing the screen as we finish this off. So I'm attempting to stop sharing it, but I'm not doing a very good job. Can anybody stop sharing those? I've absolutely failed at that. So I'll have to stop sharing the application screen. Fantastic. Thank you. So if anybody's interested in working on this with me, there's my contact details there or funding out more being part of the study, I'm looking for groups to work with. But I just wanted to thank you for your time and input. And I think some up for me as somebody who's not a course designer or an instructional designer or a learning technologist, this is a fantastic place to be. I think for your role, I think it's a really exciting time to be in a position to develop these sort of things. I think you're in such a great role. And I think the design element for me is going to come through much more strongly, how we go about things together. So hopefully this has been as interesting for you as it has been for me. And that's the end of my presentation. I shall enjoy looking at your slides. I've really enjoyed the debate. I wish I could have joined each and every one of those groups. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you to Dan. I think Tom is still here. If we could show our acknowledgement and gratitude for Dan and Tom, will be grateful for that. So and thank you for participating in the groups. So our program continues. So we have some more sessions before we