 Welcome to the RF Elements Unlives podcast. As always, I'm Caleb. We're over here with Tyson who say hi to us. Hey, everybody How's going? Hi Tessus. How are you? So I'm good. Yes This week we're gonna be talking about Wisp America 2023 Louisville, Kentucky We just finished that show up here shortly the general state of the market and Whatever we feel like rambling on because it's already on podcast when we say only months man So but first before we get into that Tosses give the good people out there. They're called action Yeah, don't forget to like listen and subscribe to our channel right here on youtube or anywhere You download your audio podcasts like apple google or spotify Sit in the music intro All right guys, so we just got recently back from the wisp America 2023 uh trade show You know one of many that we've been to so Um, I don't collect badges. I know a lot of people do I think like five years ago I was like I should probably start doing this and never got around to it. Not me. I don't I don't I don't collect badges There's no badges here I don't know stinking badges. So Uh show was held in Louisville, Kentucky. Um, you know good show typical turning out. I think maybe a little bit lower I don't know kind of what do you what are your thoughts and feelings about this here show? Yeah I mean it was it was different To say I mean it wasn't like it was underserved or anything like that over 1200 people Which for a you know wisp America show is actually quite quite a good attendance, right? So can't really complain about that. But yeah, it's something seemed a little off. I mean like the flow Uh, at least through the exhibit center, right was a little slow Um, you know, we didn't see really anybody's uh, booth Not just our booth like get like totally swamped and packed, you know with at least once a day, right? So it was a constant flow of people coming through but it seemed it seemed to be a little bit more mellow I mean almost like the market is right now, right? It seems that the market's just kind of deflated a little bit Uncertainty things going on and what's next and I think it showed kind of in the you know I guess that the physical, you know Affirmation of how people were to show as well, you know, yeah for sure It definitely had a vibe where everyone's like, hey, you saw everybody You know, we got to meet some new people and that was great and you know have those conversations But you know for the most part once everyone got past the you know catching up What's up, bro I was having a hand seeing you a bit and then everyone was like, how's it going? Everyone's like, uh, we're just Waiting We're here and we're waiting for six gig or the the amp see even the city And this radio and that radio the next new big thing coming around the curve and You know, I think a lot of that energy is really just kind of showing up across the the market in general, right? and it's a little bit what we want to talk about today is the You know the 68 hopes dreams unicorn tears and all that other sort of stuff rainbows and unicorns, you know, that's we we talked about this in previous shows like Hey guys, uh, this is definitely coming and it's gonna be great when it does But you know, there's still a lot of time between here and them I mean we talked about we started talking about this when we started the podcast a year ago And it was gonna be hey into this year the hey into q123 q2 Like we're q3 now maybe I mean who really knows right so Uh, and the radios and stuff are just aren't quite there. I mean, yeah, I definitely came in. I think it's been the most progress You know, there's a lot of people out there testing the platform now working at the kinks They're five gig versions uh test units are about to drop as I understand so But you know from big you you big when he nobody knows man. It's crickets on the outside. Not exactly Not exactly surprising there, but at the same time I was like hey guys You uh, you don't do anything just come po po. Hey, hey Anything but So, you know, we're kind of waiting all night, you know the mimosa products coming out there and testing But there are some shenanigans afoot over there. So that news came out, you know during the show that um Mimosa has now sold so airspin sold mimosa, which poor poor guys at mimosa They seem to kind of get rocked with uh these announcements during the show like when airspin bottom Was last year was a big kerfluffle about the quarantino setup and everything and then now this year while they're setting up the booth They're like, oh, hey guys, uh, we're being sold. So awesome. So We got good friends over there and it's kind of tough to see that happen But you know, we'll see how this pans out right now. It seems like there's not a lot going on You know, everything will be status quo for a while, but you know kind of makes you wonder, you know, where things going and I mean, although there's there's been a lot of promises from that side as well that you know This is something you've spoken to with a bit of um Feeling behind it. I guess, you know, where that whole thing's going. I don't know if we want to hash that out here or not But I don't care. Why not? I mean, I have opinions. So I'll I open the show with them and I Yeah, I mean and it it's kind of frustrating right because you know where the market's going You know, it's heavily dependent obviously on what the equipment manufacturers put out and then you know If we if we look at all that sort of speak quote unquote major players in this space, you know There's a lot of stagnant stuff. There's still a lot of uh, you know uncertainty. There's there's a lot of Really guessing. I mean, let's let's start with ubiquity, right? Where the hell are you, you know, where is ubiquity? They are nowhere to be found and and I don't expect to hear anything from them anytime soon actually I had a feeling at what point they might do something But it's really starting to seem like, you know, they won't do anything I you know, my belief is that they'll probably wait till six gig is actually a thing The afc is done and if you're lucky, you'll probably get a rocket ltu type two by two Device that just works in six gig and does maybe your basic ax stuff. I mean, I want to be wrong I honestly do I want to see something more come but I mean, that's that's it and I think the most frustrating part about that is I mean it is It's ubiquity's decision. It's their market to play in their company to run do it the way you want Um, but it's really, you know somewhat of the the user base still hoping and waiting and praying that, you know You know, the powers over there will actually do something and uh, I I don't see it happening anytime soon Uh, probably next year if we see anything and I get that's just my kind of Basic prediction. Who knows right? Please. Yeah, you're wrong. I mean, yeah, exactly like As much guff as we throw that way. We understand that you know, what they've done for the marketplace is Or for the market in general has been tremendous, right? Yeah, there's a lot that rolls with that But yeah, like six eight months ago. They're like, oh, here's an a slimy servo's like sweet, you know It's coming. It's coming. We'll get us a rocket. We'll have a six gig version We're gonna be rocking and rolling and it's been crickets and like they refer to some future ap with the compatibility but it's like dude like Where is it? You know, there's some some hits. There's some uh, kind of knockoff hardware that they made me that you know Would indicate what their ideas might be but then it's like just absolutely crickets We're not even getting like the the the vibe checks from the people that are normally sort of in the motorbike. They're Exactly. They're their test users and they're like, oh, yeah, man. It's gonna rock I mean the LTE stuff for the longest time everyone's like, man, you're gonna be really excited Whatever when this stuff rolls and there's just none of that background shot around here. So I don't know if they got voted out of the cool kids club. I don't know if you know, they They're hammered down with paperwork and can't say a thing. It's really hard to say but hopefully You know here in the near term, we get a five gig version. We get a six gig tourism and We'll lead to like a clear vision as to what they're doing again This plays all into the hesitation that everyone's in right now It's like, okay, you know, if I'm a big you big with the operator or you big when you based on operator, you know And we think well, maybe in a ex platforms coming out Maybe a LTE is gone. Like I'm not gonna pin the whole lot of money into building, you know new networks on this knowing that it could be obfuscated or sorry, um EOL or you know, just basically just ignored in the future. I don't want to drop a lot of money And I'd like to build my new networks now, but I'm like, well, and we're waiting on this next big thing coming around And no one knows what it is. So there's a lot of a lot of thumb twiddling going on there And I think it really kind of hurts The uh, the marketplace or the market, excuse me Uh, I don't know why marketplace stuck in my head, but whatever. I'm shopping for too much junk in Facebook. Yeah, exactly, right? It's been all winter. I've just done nothing done nothing all winter But just shop for junk waiting for spring to come out. So your chinese goods Yeah, exactly. I need some boxes of garbage here now Let's fill the hole Uh, um, but no, it's just, you know, it just leaves with the hesitation Uh, now on the flip side, you know, we've got a came in which is fantastic about saying, hey, here's our roadmap Here's what looks like great. Yep. They have one, you know, who's step one excellent Uh, you know, we're good good traction there But again the downside of that is like cool. So here's our product development 24 and 25 and it's like Okay, I mean, that's that's awesome. Like what's on there looks really fantastic But if we've got to wait two or three years at this point, then you end up with that sort of analysis paralysis and the hesitation to say, hey, do I keep building what we know worth now to carry us over or do we wait? Uh, and I think, you know, I'm the same as you like the longer you sit there and wait and don't build to fill a need in your customer base Don't get your your presence established there. Um, then it just makes it one You less relevant. I get some markets on the things but also to like the competition's rolling, right? Like we know there's so much money coming into fiber and these other operators or these consolidation operators Another one 200 million dollar turn up outfit to start buying up operators and stuff like people are making moves And if you're sitting on your thumbs waiting for the next big thing, it's going to pass you by and it's not a relatively Yeah, it's just going to pass you by and you're going to find yourself, you know, obsolete as some extent. So You know, building that brand building that reputation locally, even if it's not the ideal way at the moment It's got to get done. I mean, nothing's ever ideal. Like we would all love to have the magic bullet and sell the one thing Toss those and I could sell one skew We're done, right? This is awesome, but you know, unfortunately, this is a lesson off the moral we live in So luckily, though, again, k-mem's done a really good job telling us what status is what's coming on. So Really pumped about that. Um, you know, we're looking to see where things go from there Uh, again, the mostest side of things. I mean, I mean, first of all, the only one right there Are we talking about them now? Yeah, sure. I'm not I can have a better day right now. So I mean, it's a slow death. You know, it's a slow death for the past almost three years, right? Two plus years Um, you know, since since the kind of merging, so to speak or whatever if you want to call that acquisition with air span Nothing really has happened there. And you know, again, there's a there's a lot of hope and dreams, you know From their fan base of their user base that actually something's gonna happen. And I mean, I don't know how many, you know You know, how many trips they have to have but I mean, you know, they They went to air span they lost quant and now they're being bought by this huge, you know Uh, wisp operator in india, you know, so I mean, I think they have way too many people there That they're not going to have enough chips for all the radio zil need in that, you know, uh operation that we're not going to see Much here in the us, you know So that's that's that's scary. That's scary to You know as an operator, I know there's people who built their networks based on mimosa, but it's just like how many more you know, uh, you know Things like this have to happen before you kind of maybe find a more secure vendor in this space, you know And it's not and it's not just about six gig, right? I mean, there's a whole another conversation to have is like, hey five gig is here, right? You know, so five gig still works, uh, you know, five gig is still a thing and You know waiting, you know not building, you know new networks because you're waiting for six gig is Yeah, I don't know that it's the best approach. I mean, I'm not a wisp, right? You're not a wisp We deal with a lot of wisps and we talk to a lot of wisps So maybe we're not the best ones to you know, give advice in this this area But I mean, there's people out there who need internet now, right and five gig works and five gig is a thing, you know and Uh, you know, well, I don't know. I don't know where to put the money on But uh, and I don't want to be a cambium fanboy, right? But at the moment when you look at the overall picture of things like you said The first box is checked. They actually have a roadmap, right? The second box is checked They actually have beta hardware out there and testing that's working. Is it doing everything they said? No, but it's early, right? So but at least that's you know a lot to be said for the first two things, you know They're relevant. They're here. They talk to you, you know, if you say hello cambium, I have a question Can be mansion. That's the third box that I consider check, right? None of the other vendors in this space are really doing Any any of that stuff right now. So I mean again, you know, it it's not You know a one one trick pony, right? Because that's the other problem with some of these solutions that are out there like tarana will will go there Trust me, you know, but you know, there's not a one-size-fits-all solution for delivering bandwidth to people, right? So I think the you know the the hybrid network of not only fiber and wireless But multiple types of wireless solutions in your network is is a thing You know, I mean, I think we have to think of hyper hybrid now, right? You know, not only five gig and six gig and fiber and wireless and other things I mean really you have to use the best tool, you know for the job to deliver bandwidth and you know Not even cambium delivers all of that yet either, right? So, I mean, you know find those vendors But in the wireless space, I'll wrap up my little rant here Uh, you know in the wireless space right now cambium is is you know in the front of the wide, right? Hopefully they can deliver right and hopefully some other Manufacturing maybe wakes up and you know comes to the party Yeah, definitely the most cohesive message and definitely say we're in this market with you Uh for the long haul we've been here for I mean forever, right? I mean ever since I was we lad doing this stuff You know is canopy and then the whole platform is is definitely grinding stuff for the years and Now, you know, there's definitely other manufacturers out there that recently say, hey, you guys are definitely a thing We're super interested in Wink, um That we've spoken about in the past But you know, that's the message from that is not hey, we're with this market for a long haul You know, it's there's some some live service given Um, but at the same time, you know, there's a lot of this sort of stuff when When you label yourself next generation is the most generic tag ever and it's just okay. Well the next generation. Yeah Not great, but All right, so and of course, you know, the Toronto thing is the the big definitely the big unicorn In the room the the pink elephant or pinky pink unicorn in the room We're talking about to you say mix it all together exactly, but You know, again, where's all the Gen T stuff that was supposed to have already been here You know, I don't know last year or whatever that was where's, you know, oh, we definitely got six gig coming But there's no real push or no real show there as to where it is and you know, it works You know, we're not going to deny that, you know, we've had a lot of conversation with a lot of people The platform works. All right, great. You know, they've gone through some growing payers and we all have At some extent, right? I mean we're no one's perfect. But at the same time, it's like, okay Here's an expensive solution that you are questioning the long-term viability of it That is fed basically off investor money at this point with yeah focus on us now But also could just disappear at some point and even if you ignore all that you've got platform where most Operators are looking at a two-year ROI three-year on ROI. You'd be too nice Yeah, yeah, exactly. So at that point, you know, you've really got to consider is this what I want to do long term Or do I just kind of nut up and you know push a fiber solution? You know, of course, it depends on a hundred different factors So again, there's so much segmentation into how you serve your customer base. Like you just said But I mean two or three year ROI I mean you get a glass on the ground or the air and a lot of different places and You know, it it definitely makes things simpler and it also plays a lot into you know When you think long term about what are you doing with your wish for now? You know, and your what's your two-year plan your five-year plan your 10-year plan Do you eventually want to build this up big and sell it? Then you know, you've got to think about what your technology renewal costs and stuff are going to be and Everything based on that Yeah, yeah, I mean my my whole thing is is not really on the the radio. I mean it comes off that way sometimes, right? It's just because of the way the way I act, you know, but like I said We know it does magical things it does and that's what a very expensive hardware gets you right? So the non-line of site capabilities the speeds that it delivers. I mean it's using multiple polarizations And that's how they achieve it. It's all it's all fine and great but really We we need to see it from the the lower mechanics of how they operate as a company as well And who can afford it and who's actually using it and how well it's being used It's really a lot of those things that really worry me and I'm I'm worried about, you know, our wisps You know, basically the the majority of You know wisps, uh in in North America You know, whether they're going to get hurt by this potential investment in there because again, you know, you know If you have government money, it's great because it's free money. You don't care, right? Most wisps like 99 9% of wisps don't have government funding in there. They're they're self-funded, right? So it's a very expensive proposition, but you have to ask yourself, you know, You know, are they proven? No, right? I mean, they're they're new to the market, right? You know, uh, do they support the wisps in this market? I mean, I can't remember the last time I see people ask questions all the time. Hey, is there anybody from Toronto out here that can answer this question? You never hear them, right? So they're doing that, you know, ubiquity You know, we don't exist, you know, let the other users help you kind of a thing. So where's that? There's real, you know, no delivery on the vision of their product. Like you said g2 is supposed to be here I mean, so what did they do? They oh, we upgrade so you could run a wider channel and generate even more noise. Yay, you know Yay, that's some technology for you, right? So I mean that was just a quick like shut up kind of a thing feature to, you know, again Impress somebody. I don't know who, right? But I mean the the biggest thing is again delivering on everything that they say because I I believe when wisps think You know of Toronto, they're they're thinking of the big picture, right? You know, 600 meg at eight miles at nine line of sight at all these things and you really I don't see that, you know, 250 subscribers at the same time on one AP This is what people think they're getting when they buy that but when you actually talk to wisps, you see I know wisps that are delivering eight miles line of sight, you know, I know wisps that are delivering 500 meg at short distances, right? I know some wisps that are self funded, you know But they're able to get a thousand dollar install fee. That's not all wisps, you know And of course the ones with government money can do whatever the the biggest thing is also, you know What if the customers don't come? What if you don't get the density you need for your two One year, two year, three year ROI calculation I mean the pre-sum data was the biggest thing that nobody's talking about that It was like a big like hello to me when it came out, you know, they they tout 200 plus subscribers per AP But the pre-sum data that came out the report was a few months ago Showed that the average number of our ends on a single bn on a toronto network is like 11 So I could do that with ubiquity too, right? I can do that with cambium. I could do that even with mimosa Microtech can even do 11 subscribers on a one bn and if you're running an 80 or 100 plus mega her channel Yeah, you can deliver eight 900 make. I mean, that's just simple math at 256 qualm or 10 24 qualm So again, uh, I it's it's an overall big picture. Some people can make it work In their business model. Some people are privately funded. Some people are funded by the government There's there's a lot of things to really unpack here You know much bigger discussion to have on, you know, whether it's, you know, It can work and again, is it right for everywhere, right? So it just doesn't scale in my book And you know, we'll just see again I want to be wrong. Please prove me wrong, right? Please drop your price bring the price down So more people can afford it to continue to do the things that you say Can be done all at the same time. That's just pick one or two, right? You know, we can give you distance or we can give you speed We can give you speed or we can give you not a line of sight, you know We can give you cost-effective or we can give you speed and distance. I don't know You know, they they talk about all the things that they can do and I just don't see it all happening right now And I would love I would love for a wisp because I'd asked this before in public and nobody ever delivers, right? I would like to see, you know this 200 subscribers delivering gigabit to everybody like they say it can and Nobody's done it so far. Nobody's shown it. I've seen people like with four or five subs saying, yeah, I'm getting 500 Meg. All right. Well, great, you know, good for you, you know, so your ROI is now 12 years Okay, congrats, you know, so I don't know All right, I'll stop next next next No, no, no, we'll just he gave you now and of course to be clear, you know, we're not really coming as from this is not Rf element as an antenna manufacturer Positron the market as a whole because I mean we've been doing this forever Honestly, we're getting old enough to the point where we're probably not going to be able to do anything else at this point So it's important to us that this market continues to run Uh, just if you try to put me in a suit somewhere. I think I'd literally die. So um Yeah Well, we need solutions We need solutions that are good for the market that are cost effective for this particular market again the the wireless isp Arena is a cost conscience, you know and still performance driven Sediment and we require those types of solutions. So this is not a knock on any one manufacturer Again, we knock on all of them and when they do good things we talk about it when they don't do good things We we talk about we care. We really care about the The wisps in this space for sure For sure. And you know, I think it's a telling thing too is like you see a lot of the Marketing documentation that comes out from them. Okay, we're 200 wisps and you know, we've got a thousand or whatever many thousands of base nodes sold and we cover 20 million population based on the A distance and a population center map or whatever and that's all good But they never really say and we also cover 50,000 subs or 75 or 100 or 500,000 or whatever it is, right? Funny how that is, right? Real funny. So now if the next one comes out, they're like, yeah, we've got however many thousand base nodes are recovering 500,000 Subscriber lines, and it's like, okay. Well, maybe we'll shut the fuck up a little bit because No, we won't we won't shout for the rooftops, right? We'll tell everybody's like finally Yeah, well, then that'll be like, hey, it's it's cracking man. It's rolling and if that's what the industry needs Then or the industry needs to adjust to then maybe that's the path it goes, you know long term So, I mean, we've definitely seen it shift in advance and go in ways we never expect or at least I never expected Um, but at the same time, you know, I mean we could be entirely wrong That's where we think it's going to go now But I think with the current status quo where we're waiting on the hope and a dream A mystery hardware thing like the financials the physics The timelines and stuff aren't really to the point where it matters And even if we do get a good of them bulletin is too, you know that time Everything's done is two three five years from now by the time these big networks get built You know at the same time the fiber crews are just running full board everywhere Anywhere you turn around their stuff turning up so You know the the biggest benefit our industry has always had has been flexibility to be able to deploy where others can't To deploy quickly to run clean And if you're not doing those sort of things down again sitting stable waiting for The next big thing them, you know, you're gonna get our class and outrun Yeah, yeah, and there's and you know, again, you know five gigahertz right now is a viable thing You know, it's working and there are lots of wisps out there who aren't, you know waiting, you know They're they're looking at the future. Yeah, but they're still moving ahead with what they have right now Right five gigahertz still works, you know, uh testing six gigahertz in the side But they're not they're not putting all their kind of new growth and new deployments on on the back burner I mean, honestly a lot of the solutions out there, you know outside of torana, right? Which is like everybody else are still kind of cost-effective, right? So um, you know, you can you can do a five gig solution and kind of upgrade to six gig if you need it I mean quite frankly, you know, six gig isn't necessarily the answer I mean if five gig works it works you're delivering what you need six gig doesn't It doesn't necessarily get you more speed, right? I mean, yes, it is ax. It's a higher modulation rate But in most cases people are not going to use that higher modulation rate because the distances are going to be much shorter, right? So I think When six gigahertz comes out or a ax comes out I mean most people will be stuck at 256 or 1024 qualm anyway five gig does that now Right, you don't you don't need that stuff. Uh, you know, most people are running 40 megahertz channels I think the pre-sum data shows that 20 megahertz is still pretty much a very common thing So you can double your speeds by going to 40 megahertz and you could quadruple your speeds pico and 80 megahertz Now we're by it. So, um, if you have uh, you know, uh, growth needs you can do it If you can't run a 40 or 80 Now in in in five gig you're not going to do it necessarily in six either because I mean we've seen some of the Preliminary six gig spectrum and it's it's not as clean as you know, people think it's all virgin ground It's I mean people are destroying her already, you know, with uh, they're testing licenses and stuff like that So, I mean, yeah, or it's or it's green and clear for a minute. Yeah Yeah, a month down the road is going to get thrashed out to you Exactly You know, so we're a lot of that sort of bad behavior being done So and you know for us it is a bit self-serving to like stick on five Upgrade your stuff. You know, obviously, you know, we do the horns and everything too But you know, there's a lot of people right now that we deal with that are doing that sort of thing They're like, look, we've got these existing networks Even if they're not doing a lot of greenfield stuff now There are opportunities to go through and refresh and update some of your existing networks, right? So, you know, all those sector networks and rural areas that were built out five ten years ago You know, you can upgrade the radios. You can upgrade the horns add a few more ap's for capacity I mean, that's working really well for a lot of folks. Um, yeah When the ax five gig stuff comes with the compatibility of the 4500 series I think there's gonna be a lot of cool stuff happening there too, you know Yeah, five gig is going to be noisier But the base protocols are going to be able to handle it a lot better That we we've talked about that before also your power levels are a lot higher You know, you're capped at 30 to 36 depending on application of six gig where you're 36 the ap unlimited Cpe and five gig which means you can put a big dish on there Run those longer distance get those higher order modulation rates and really stretch that out because you know this dream like you said You know these 1024 496 quam Networks 10x 12x radios, you know their network sounds great if you're at half a mile Or mile two whenever that may be done and at that point if you've got the density and build you're waiting to do that I mean, honestly a lot of these can be done with existing 60 gig solutions that are out there now and be done reasonably With stuff that exists and you can use so and where the noise is not necessarily miss you too. So Yeah, there's there's a lot of waiting and I think a lot of places where you just again be better focused on building now and You know updating or or you know building even further when this new stuff does come out and you can roll with it Yeah, I mean There's I'm just a lot of wisps out there that are I see on their websites I mean offering like one two five meg packages and stuff like that, right? So I mean they could turn around to be 100 plus meg Tomorrow with five gig now Right, uh running 1024 quam now, you know, uh or with the five gig a x stuff, you know You know, it's basically five gig a x to me is better than six gig a x Essentially, if you're running the the right setup because it's all the same speeds and functionalities Essentially, it's just you know, again, you know, if if you're lucky enough that six gig is clean in your area, you know I'm finding and you know, there's this huge There's a huge unknown here, right is how the a of c in six gig is going to work like what happens when you become You know, uh start interfering with an incumbent six gig backhaul I mean does your system just shut down? I mean, you know, you're not seeing that in the testing because the a of c's not really working, right? But I mean, there's there's a lot of unknowns I would I would hate to see people build out these six gig networks and all of a sudden they're getting shut down Constantly kind of like what dfs does right? So dfs is still available But nobody really runs in it because they're worried right that A radar or something is gonna shut down their ap and you know, six gig might be the same I mean, I don't know. Yeah, and there'll probably be a little bit of ways right out Like hopefully it's not nearly the shit share that the cbrs ass has been the last few months. Oh my god Don't even chaos Can we go there? Well, I mean, what the hell dude I mean that actually kind of plays to uh, what we're saying cbrs was supposed to be oh man This is going to be the end all save all for west, right? Because we're going to get all the space if we're first ones there We'll get all this, you know, clean spectrum of stuff to use and what happened one Uh, I got noisy as shit in like the first six months, right? Because again, there's no gaa coordination or protection All the the co-coordination and help that was supposed to have been done Yeah, wink wink. None of that's done anything. Um, yeah, it's got a hard enough time keeping the system running Where it just said no drop all your ap's offline for a few hours and then when they come back everything It's scrambled channels. Like it's a bit of a mess, right? And again, yeah You know, it did give the benefit to get some more foliage penetration and stuff like that And that's great not downplaying that aspect whatsoever. I mean power levels were good, but at the same time this was the The the golden bullet and you know now people have gotten really sort of like You know, I'm worried The ymax golden bullet. I mean come on. You remember that 70 migs of 70 miles, baby And there was a lot of money spending the ymax stuff and none of it done I mean we went through it again with the lte solutions. I mean look at everything that was promised With these trimmed down whispered elte solutions. You know what? Uh, it's a big fart in the face. So I'm deaf. I'm definitely worried. I mean I have I actually uh, very positive about cbrs as far as the spectrum goes That's all great. What I'm worried about and what I'm seeing is a lot of wisps are Building their packages and selling their service packages based on acquiring the full gaa spectrum for themselves, right? So because nobody's out there right now. So they're able to run a 40 mega hurt gaa plus whatever their pal is, right and actually a lot of these guys out there I don't some some of the platforms. I don't believe are really participating in a sass right now, right? So they're running a full 40 mega hurt in the pal and a full 40 in the gaa So they get 80 megahertz of spectrum. They calculate we can deliver 600 meg But once, you know, everybody starts coming online and more More cbrs Wisps come online that gaa is gonna start getting trimmed down And then what happens when you don't have enough spectrum to offer the speed packages you're you're delivering now So that's really I don't think people are looking at that Close enough and they're they're you know, putting that with the cart before the horse or whatever, right? And and saying well, hey, you know, if I do a 40 and a 40 I can deliver 800 meg total And therefore I can sell 300 meg packages and that's just not going to hold up. Unfortunately. So Yeah, well, we'll see where that goes. That's that's that's the biggest flaw I see with cbrs right now what I see operators doing and it's it's really worrying me It's really worrying me. So we'll we'll see we'll see where that goes Yeah, it's got the opposite problem of the people still selling five meg plans out there. It's like they're they're promising too much So and the five meg guys like I'm not trashy anyone in particular But no it's kind of cheeses me at times like I get you're doing what she can but You know, if you look into the biggest proponents of well, you're spending other people's money It's not fair to everything else and then you kind of look at What their networks are offering? I'm like they like I get that you're on a shoestring but like You know, you could probably spend a few more bucks to get this thing into this century, right? So, you know that that kind of cheeses me at times too because it's the same thing Like we still see people live there with rockets later like m-series or, you know AC platforms on like omnis or 120 degree sectors They get wiped out after 10 slubs and it's completely trash, right? And they're like, well, You know, we can't do anything or without other people's money. I'm like, well, no, you can there's so many self-funded successful operations or getting You know traditional styles of funding. So, you know, the credit markets drive up a little bit But there's still a lot of money out there available Where you can get the funding and not have to necessarily rely on the bill to become a savior But you know, reasonable business is with reasonable business practices. So like it still exists. It'll never go away Yeah, I mean, it's it's just like anything else in any business. You have to adapt for the time, right? So, I mean, yeah, I take a five meg package over and only nerd at right. So, I mean, that's that's still a thing, right? Um, but yeah, it it really doesn't cost that much money to get them into at least 20 plus, right? I think that that should be what's the what's the minimum now 25 by three or something like that Which used to be broadband? Yeah, yeah, and and honestly 25 by five or whatever it is is pretty decent You know, I mean, we know that the average household only uses seven megs, right? So Uh, again, you know, 25 by five is not very difficult to achieve and I mean, you could do that all day long with ac hardware Which is not expensive, right? So, um, you know, just a few things need to change here I mean, mainly it's uh, it's the antenna, right, you know, get off the omnis I know there's some low density stuff, but put a four nineties at least I mean, even if you have to use sectors, right? I mean at a minimum, I believe, you know For 90 degree sectors with, uh, you know any decent ac based radio out there and you can deliver 25 make Plans at least at a minimum, right? So Yep, so I don't know. This has definitely been the all been ranting shaking her fist at the sky segment What else are we complaining about? Oh, my knees hurt and uh, they pop when I stand up But I didn't I didn't drop a death bomb this time. So that's good. Yeah. I was actually surprised You didn't mean none of you need to lead into it, sir, but um But anyways, otherwise, you know, that's sort of the main feeling again We're you know, we kind of cover the stuff in the past, but again, you know I think a lot of what we're saying here really just kind of encompasses the feeling and You know what we came out of the show is everyone's like, yeah, we're really excited about the future But no one's doing anything now So, um, you know, it's like everything goes like, oh, I'm gonna lose all this weight I want to exercise and I will eat but they don't actually do it But you're like, man in the year from now, I'm gonna be hot, but you don't actually do it You spend all your time researching But you don't even try to do the things you know, like, hey walk a little bit, right? Eat a little bit less, you know, eat less junk food and a little bit better food, right? So there's things you know, you can do now, uh, to to achieve your goals But uh, you just want to sit there wait for the next best, you know, weight loss Try those are actually a really good analogy and something that I can I can resonate See, I'm wearing I'm wearing my workout shirt today. I'm going to go to the gym Oh, yeah, I'm I'm in a giant hypocrite here 100% here, so And no point in even actually listening to what I'm saying about that You walk every day and you walk every day, right? You get your steps And you're doing something positive, right to try and keep yourself healthy Nobody says that, you know, you're gonna maybe lose a ton of weight But you're doing something you're not waiting, you know For the next commercial from big pharma to say, hey, this drug stick it in your arm And you're gonna lose a hundred pounds, right? You're doing something, so yeah, it's the rest of the day. That's the issue So it's nice for some reason. I don't know what Anyways, but uh, but other than that, like I said, the show was good. Um, we only lost one man down for a little while But he bounced back so, um He drank quite a bit of bourbon again, which my wife was concerned She's like, I don't know how I feel about sending you to where bourbon is It definitely I was like I was like three steps to the airport I looked around and I'm like, I think they're kind of proud of it here because there's a bourbon side every 20 feet in there But um, yeah facility was really nice. I really liked the facility. Um, it was really convenient with the hotel and stuff The hotel was awesome. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, uh really cool space. So yeah, even the food and stuff like that Wasn't bad at all. So really, I mean again, whisper put on a really good show for whisper America I was quite pleased with the overall Everything about it, you know, even even the town, right? I mean, there's there was stuff to go and do around The show as well not just captive within the hotel, although the Marriott, right? There was two options I don't think the high it was as as good. Let's say most people hung out at the Marriott But whatever, I mean, it was it was it was fantastic good food there Good bar, good social life. A lot of people again after the show Got together and hung out and talked to whisper stuff And so so all that stuff was accomplished as well We raised a lot of awareness for Johnny's tailgate And then we hope for the tailgate in the future And that one day we can all live in a home where we have tailgates without giant holes on them So Johnny's exactly thinking about it, brother. We're thinking about you. So Anyways, all right. I think that about covers it for now. Well, you can go ahead and wrap this show up. So, um We will be doing more podcasts. We have been a little lax in our podcast We've been working on some internal projects just been slammed and everything else, but we're we're getting back on track here We apologize for those we get I didn't get beat up a little bit at the show They're like, what are you guys been doing? We're like, we've been doing stuff. I promise just not here But we're gonna get back to our guests here shortly. So if you're interested in being a guest You won't talk about your perspective, especially with how this is played, you know We we've covered a lot of different topics with guests because everyone has their own thing But you know, if you've got an interesting perspective you want to talk about Analysis paralysis or diversifying your network builds from future things like that specifically or or you know If you're using a lot of terrana and it's working great for you and it scales and you're happy with it Hey, we'd love to talk to you. You know, again, give us that information. We're more than happy to talk about it. So Yeah, uh, toss it as anyone looking for us Where all can they find us on various platforms and such? Yeah, you can find us all over social media on facebook and instagram You could find us on our forum forum rfe lab.com. You could always contact us through our website rfelements.com We're just right here on youtube or wherever you download Your podcast and stuff you can comment online there. All right. All right So till we talk to you guys next time We're gonna go sit on our rocking chairs and shake your hands at the skies So I feel like drinking some bourbon right now Bye everybody. Bye. Y'all be good. Bye. See you You