 My name is Lindsay O'Dell. I'm director of the Graduate School at the Open University. I'm here today with three students who've undertaken their vivas remotely since March this year, when the pandemic has meant that PhD and professional doctorate vivas are undertaken remotely. We're going to talk about their experiences and their top tips for students who will also be undertaking their examination remotely. So first, if students can introduce themselves. Hi, I'm Sue Main. I was doing my PhD in Wales faculty. I was looking at creativity as a way to express chronic pain and used online exhibitions to do that. Hi, my name is Daniel Haslam. I've recently completed my PhD in the Faculty for Business and Law specifically in the Centre for Voluntary Sector Leadership because my interest is in the voluntary sector and I researched how the voluntary sector works collaboratively with the NHS. My name is Claire Saunders and I was an EDD student in the Welsh faculty and my research was around creating a writing community in a new university. So looking at how academics writing practices can be developed in a teaching focused university. To start with, I'd like to talk about how you're prepared for your vivas. So in some ways it's very similar to preparation that students will always undertake for their vivas. But in other ways it's obviously very different. So it'd be really helpful to hear your experiences of how you prepared. I mean, I did all the usual kind of preparation in terms of going back through my thesis and the sorts of stuff that you would do, I guess, for any vivas. In terms of online, I had two preparatory sessions. We just kind of went through some potentially tricky questions. But again, with a real focus on how is this looking online? Can you hear us okay when there's a pause? Don't worry about it. It may well be that there's a pause there end as well. So I think particularly dealing with the logistics of being remote, but trying to kind of engage with your examiners. A couple of practice runs. They don't have to be full vivas. They can be just kind of conversations. But just trying out the medium for me was a really helpful way of preparing, I think. For me, the practice that I had with my supervisors was really, really valuable. I was quite nervous for the practice. A lot more nervous than I ended up being for my actual vivas. So it had value for me both in terms of the practice of talking about the thesis and the kinds of questions that might come up. But just also sort of an emotional benefit just to sort of get me used to that kind of environment because being online is quite different to being face to face. And just sort of the formality of the process as well. So, yeah, that practice was really, really beneficial. That's really interesting that you say you were more nervous for the practice because the day before mine, I actually had a practice run with a lecturer who very kindly read the thesis and did a mock-vival with me. And we set it up so that it was up to you at the same time day that the real thing was going to be, which was kind of just helpful for me to kind of know how things worked and how they were going to look in terms of the light at the time and that kind of stuff. So that was really useful. But also I was so much more nervous for that session than I actually ended up being the next day. And I think it kind of really helped me to get all of that out of the way and to kind of work through some of that anxiety. And I think I kind of managed to peak my anxiety the day before, which meant that on the day I was then feeling a bit kind of calmer and a bit more confident about how to deal with it. But it was that kind of thing that was really useful and just kind of working through those nerves in advance really. That was definitely valuable. How did you set your room up where you had your exam? What did you do to make sure that you were comfortable in the space that you took your fire for in? One of the things that I did was wear the same clothes for my practice as I did for the actual survivor. And one of the main reasons I did that was so I could see where I was going to be, what the room was going to look like and what I looked like talking about my research. So that was a really important thing. And some of the tips that you see about video calls that are around at the moment about the height of your camera and the light in the room and all that kind of thing. But also, I think that's one of the big benefits, actually, of doing your Viper Online is that you have more control over that kind of thing. Well, hopefully you have more control in theory. So things like where you are, the temperature in the room, which can be a big thing. I know certainly the office on campus tends to be really warm, so I get quite hot in there. In a stressful environment, it might have been a bit sticky, in more ways than one if I was doing it there. So I was quite thankful to be at home in an environment that I knew and that was really good for me. I think one of the advantages of taking it online was that you say that control over the environment that you have. And behind my desk is a wall and on that wall, I had post-it notes that said things like breeze. Your research is interesting. Just kind of things that my supervisors had said to me. I just had those as little notes. I guess if I'd gone in to a physical Viper, I would have had maybe some of those things written in a notebook. But having them just in front of me on the wall was a really helpful thing. So I think it's okay to arrange the environment in a way that's going to work to your benefit. And you don't have that opportunity in the face-to-face physical one, but you do have that in a remote one. So I think it's worth just kind of spending some time in the room and thinking about how to set it up so it's going to work for you. Yeah, I found that I did the Viper Prep at the same position in the room where I knew I was going to be sitting in the Viper. So it's almost kind of getting my mindset into that kind of that's where I do my Viper kind of stuff, whatever you can do to kind of keep yourself kind of thinking that this is where I do it or this is what I'm going to wear. It might sound silly, but wearing proper shoes and not your slippers because it actually puts you into a different mindset, like dressing up professionally. People kind of joking about working from home and having the top half kind of dressed and wearing pajamas on the bottom half and things. But actually, yeah, I had a proper dress on. I did my hair and my makeup and I had proper shoes on and it did help get me in that mindset. Were there other things you did to prepare for the Viper and any notes that you might have? Mine was nice because mine was early in the morning, it was 10 o'clock, so I tried to make things as normal as possible. The other thing that I did was I had a brief conversation with the chair of the panel about two weeks before and that was purely about logistics. So the kind of knowing the logistics of the way the Viper would work just really helped me to know exactly what was happening. So I think a conversation beforehand like that could be a really helpful thing, just so you've got the kind of technicalities and the logistics worked out, because then you're not worried about those. My supervisor said that to me the day before. She said, you know, Clare, just make sure that the bottom line is the technology is not your responsibility. That's the responsibility of the chair of the panel. So you just need to focus on answering the questions and talking about your research. And I think that was a really helpful way of managing nerves. Actually, you know, I didn't have to worry about everything else. If it went wrong, they were going to be responsible for fixing it. And so just having those logistical conversations beforehand, I think for me was a really helpful way of managing nerves. Yeah, I did a similar thing where we had a practice Skype call with the chair and the supervisor who was going to be observing. So we went through the kind of how we were going to be called back into the call as well after the examiners had had their conversation. So in some respect, having it from home was great because it meant that I knew I already had the suitable chair and everything else that I could set up how I needed it. But we had to work out the logistics of how to sort out the rest breaks, especially because things like I wasn't always aware of when I needed to take a break and we kind of had realised that. And so we'd realised that the supervisor might have needed to make some kind of nonverbal cues to the chair that she should prompt to ask me if I need a break. So then trying to do that, I work out how to do that over Skype wasn't straightforward, but we kind of had a run through and had a discussion about that. So definitely having a kind of practice quick call. I mean, it was only five, 10 minutes, but a quick call with the chair and the supervisor on Skype beforehand just to run over those logistics and check that everything's working. That was a really valuable, helpful experience. Yeah, I definitely agree with that as well. When we had the, I guess, the tech practice, in comparison with the content practice, we actually ended up having to change the technology that we were going to use, which if that happened on the day, I imagine would have been a bit of a panicky situation. So, yeah, really, really valuable to have that as well. And also for me too, although I've met my external examiner, we didn't really know each other that well and I'd be very, very surprised if she knew who I was. So that was really good just so we could all meet each other as well and see each other and all the preparation stuff. One of the things was I was working full-time as well around my five. And one of the things that I did was make sure I booked the day off work. So around it, I didn't have any of that pressure. I thought at one point, if I can just do my vibe for a couple of hours and then go back and do some other work. But actually, I was really grateful to my previous self. I'd had the foresight to book a day off because, yeah, the lead-up was, although I'd got up at the same time and it was just a very, very, very different day, as you can probably imagine. I was really grateful to have that time as well. In preparation for the Viva, do you have any tips or experiences about how you manage the technology before your Viva? Did you do anything in particular to prepare? So, yeah, just kind of having that assurance that there's not other stuff running on the laptop or the computer that you're using. I live alone, but if you've got other people in the house who are using, who are streaming or doing calls or whatever else, then asking them for just that kind of period of time to maybe try not to, then that's quite useful. On a non-technology side as well as things like switching off the doorbell, those kind of things that can cause disruption as well. Yeah, very, very similar. I mean, I've got two older children who do fairly large amounts of watching things on screen. And so, they were banned from the house for the morning. Basically, I sent them out, and they weren't allowed to come back until they'd rung to check that the coast was clear. But actually, we had a bit of a community effort went on in that my neighbours, all of whom have younger children who obviously aren't at school or weren't at school at that point, they were all told to keep quiet because the windows were going to be open because it was such a hot day. I think there is something there just around. Don't be afraid to make people aware of what's going on in the house at that time. And there are some little helpful things that people can do to make that easier for you. But technology-wise, definitely watch the streaming that's going on elsewhere in the house and try and prevent that if you can, so that all the bandwidth is available for you. I think that's the most important technicality that I think I made sure I'd sorted in advance. Although the other thing was, my chair of the panel had my mobile number so that if anything did go wrong with the technology, she could call me on that. So I think that exchange of phone numbers is a really important thing in advance as well just to make sure that you can be got hold of if there's a problem. Issue about that it's not your responsibility to organise all the technical side of things is a really helpful one. And there are people in the room whose job it is to ensure that you can engage fully in the examination that sounds like that was helpful for you and would be a helpful thing to reassure other students of. So your job is to do the bit that you know really well which is to talk about your thesis and to feel comfortable in the space that you're in. And then there are other people around whose job it is to support you in doing that to make sure that the medium works. Can you talk about what did you do on the day of the Viva just before the Viva and do you have any suggestions for students who are going through a similar thing? I check the technology again. So I had a practice Skype call with a friend just to make sure that Skype was up and running. Glass of water really important. In fact, I had a very large glass of water. You do a lot of talking in the Viva and so I made sure that I had a glass of water. I was at my desk about 15 minutes before had Skype opened and ready. So I think that just keeping things as calm as possible beforehand and just being organised and making sure you're running to time can be quite helpful. And there was a little chat conversation that went on in the Skype chat box beforehand. So the chair just said to me, are you okay? Have you got a glass of water? My supervisor was like good morning. How are you doing? And then the examiners came on. And so I think, you know, I have to say, I feel that the panel did everything they could to do exactly what you were saying, Lindsay, which was make sure that my job was to talk about my research and their job was to make sure that I was able to do that. And I really felt that on the day. I felt that they did a really good job of it wasn't kind of stuffy or formal in the sense of kind of making you feel on the back foot. It was done in a way that enabled me. It was rigorous, but it was done in a way that enabled me to give my best, I think. And I really appreciated that. In terms of kind of psyching myself up, I think because I live on my own. And I also didn't really tell people when it was, because that's my coping mechanism, was I didn't want hundreds of people messaging me or whatever. So I didn't, you know, there wasn't anyone around to kind of give me a, you know, pep talk or whatever else. So my supervisor was wrong with the day before. And I think if I'd wanted to speak to her in the morning, I could have definitely run her before the vibe up. But I got everything kind of physically set up and things. And then I kind of needed to get myself kind of, I don't know, motivated or feeling more confident or whatever. So I knew I needed to be feeling happy. So I put on some music and kind of sang along to that quite loudly and sort of, you know, did a little bit of a dance on my kitchen floor. And it really did sound so stupid, but it really helped because I know that that kind of just gets me kind of happy and it kind of helped get the energy flowing in a positive way rather than an anxious way. So, you know, just silly things like that really that were quite useful. Yeah. And that's a really good example of how doing it online is another big benefit because of the control you have. And I just echo the point that's been made by everyone else about, I thought my chair was really, really good. She took control of the situation and put me at ease and sort of described how everything would go. And that less formal aspect as well where, you know, you do have people in their own environments and the potential chaos that may or may not happen with kids running in or seagulls or whatever it might be. I think that's a big advantage as well because it sort of takes that pressure off a little bit and it breaks the ice a bit as well in terms of the formality of obviously the vibe itself is a very formal situation. And I think it's difficult to make comparison having not been through a face-to-face one in a room, but I imagine being sat face-to-face with someone creates a bit more of a sort of pressure to act in a certain way, to be a certain way in that academic environment. So I certainly found it reassuring to do it like that. One of the things as well that's been mentioned is having your supervisor as an observer, which is an option, and it's an option whether it's face-to-face or online. It's one that I took up as well. And that was useful to me on the day just to have that familiar face, someone that you've been through the whole process with on the call, whether you did the chat beforehand or whether, in my case, it was just the fact that they were there. And it just gave me that little bit of extra confidence, I think, just to say to myself, I know what I'm doing, I know where I am, I know who these people are and all that kind of thing. Just going back to the thing about having the supervisor there as an observer, which I opted for that as well, and it was really helpful. And I think one useful thing is to agree in advance what you want them to do as part of that. So in the practice one that I'd had, my other supervisor, he was at that one, she'd pretty much try to write down what I'd said as far as possible in answer to the questions. And we agreed that the supervisor that was there on the day would do something very similar. And that's really helpful because in my case a lot of the amendments were, Clare, when you answered this question, you answered that question well, and we now want you to put that into the thesis. And actually that was made a whole lot easier by the fact that, believe me, you won't remember what you said at any point in that viva. So to get those notes from my supervisor, which was that when they asked you this question, this is what you said, and this is the amendment they've asked for, was really helpful. So there's probably something worthwhile about having a conversation with your supervisor beforehand and saying that this is what I would really like you to do in terms of observing. So that's what you look like on the day. And that just was a really helpful thing, I think for me, was that I then got the notes through and I could see what I'd said in response to particular questions. I have been a observer for one of my students who's had their viva since lockdown, and I've been an examiner as well. So my experience from the other side of it is that because we've all experienced our viva's in person, I think that there's a general sense in the academic communities about really making sure that as examiners, supervisors, observers and exam panel chairs that we do everything we can to make the student feel at ease in the remote situation. So do you have any tips about your experience, for other students about your experiences during the viva? How was it during the viva, anything that worked particularly well or that you'd recommend for other students? So I think one of the things, I mean, Sue, you talked about having rest breaks planned in advance. I think it's really important to say that was on offer on the day as well, not regular ones. But I was told very clearly that if I needed to pause then that would be absolutely fine. It was a really hot day, it was well over an hour. It's quite intense. So I think and associated with that is in the same way I think that you would in a face-to-face, it was okay to say, could you repeat that question or to have a pause before you answered the question. And I think that feels a bit more awkward remotely, but I think it's really important that you just go, do you know what, if I was face-to-face I would be able to do this. And also in my rehearsal one I realised that when they asked a two-part question I would often not remember part of the question or I would answer just one part of it. That was something my supervisor picked up. So on the day I had a notebook at hand and when they were asking the question I scribbled down roughly what they were asking so that I remembered to answer both parts. And so I think just little things like that were helpful. I was going to say the fact that it was online, I felt personally actually made those pauses a bit more justifiable. And I guess it was a bit of a case of, if I stay really still they'll just think the connection's frozen and that'll give me some time to think about this question that I don't know how to answer. Or something like, there were a few times when I was sat where I am now and there's a window just over to my left-hand side and just to have a quick stare out of the window to ponder what I might say to the examiners which is fine unless you notice someone doing something really interesting across the road then you might get a bit distracted. So I felt that that remote side of things was actually quite a good thing for me personally because it allowed me to almost detach myself a little bit from the situation and reflect. So yeah. It's really interesting hearing all of your experiences in Viva and how it's similar but different and some of the real positives of being able to do your Viva online. So I know there was a lot of anxiety quite rightly with everybody at the start of all of this about how we make sure that students are able to perform as well as they can in remote Vivas and it's really lovely to hear from all of you about your experiences of that. It's also really nice to kind of realise that part of what's happening in the pandemic is it's kind of made us all a little tiny bit more human, hasn't it? So thinking about people's rooms, how things are set up, that the cat might come in or in my case it might be the dog barking or children might come in because we're all human and these things happen and that's just more evident I think now in ways that can feel reassuring. Could you talk about how the end of your Viva felt for you and what you did and any tips you have for other students? The obvious thing is that your result's quite important in terms of what you might want to do afterwards. It's worth thinking about how you might feel depending on what the outcome is. So if you feel like you might need to have a debrief or want some support from someone, if it goes well or if it goes badly, that's something that takes a bit more thinking about because you're not automatically going to have people around like you would in a face-to-face where you can go back into the department that you're in and everyone has a glass of whatever and has a nice chat, hopefully a nice chat. In relation to doing it online, it's another aspect that for me was a positive because I wasn't necessarily looking forward to the experience of having your Viva and then going back and chatting to people and saying oh yes, well done or oh sorry that went like that or whatever, I wasn't particularly looking forward to that. It wasn't a big deal made out of it by other people because no one else really knew that it was happening so for me that was quite nice to go under the radar. But some people might want the absolute opposite. I completely understand some people would want a big celebration so just having to think about what you might prefer really and making sure the support is there if you want it or you have a bit of quite time to reflect or sleep for three days or whatever you want to do afterwards. I think Daniel and I are quite similar in that you obviously said about going under the radar and I sort of said earlier about nobody really knew when it was because I kept it very quiet because I didn't want masses of messages and before or after really I kind of wanted it to be on my terms as much as I could just because that's my coping mechanism. I was also, it was quite early on in lockdown for me so it was still the very straight lockdown and because I live on my own there wasn't anybody to give me a hug and say well done and I actually had my birthday the week before and it was a birthday with a zero on it and then I had the Viva and there was no one to give me a hug for another month and so that was quite hard so yeah, I think hopefully going forward people doing it in these circumstances will have some element of being able to see people and have some kind of acknowledgement of it so even if you don't want a big party just having someone around to go well done and give you that pat on the back or whatever that was quite difficult and again it was I kind of I spoke to the two supervisors who weren't in the Viva so I rang them and I rang a couple of other people and then I marked a few essays in the afternoon so I also just got on with my day so yeah and I had a drink in the evening and I was doing a virtual pub quiz with my friend that was already scheduled that evening and she didn't know until after I had the Viva I messaged her and said make sure you've got a glass or something this evening so yeah it was definitely a weird experience and there were definitely pros and cons to that so I also don't like being in the limelight so in that sense it was quite nice but yeah I didn't get to have the informal chat with the examiners afterwards it was all kind of like well that's it done and then the Skype call ends and that's it kind of thing so you know being able to plan it a bit more in advance now I think it will be helpful for students now going through it they can plan what they want to do a bit more Yeah I mean mine was a slightly later in lockdown so there was we were allowed to sort of be in the same space as a few other people at that point I had a few people that were aware I didn't have not the whole world certainly wasn't aware but I had a few people that were aware I rang my second supervisor as soon as the call was over just to give her an update and I then had another call with my main supervisor he'd been in the viva and sort of just chatted that through with her and had a bit of a you know well done and then I'm afraid that I did crack open the bubbly with a few friends on the front lawn of my house and that was very enjoyable but you know then there was a period in the afternoon when I just was exhausted and actually the following day booking the time off work is a really really sensible thing to do even if you have to take it as annual leave because I think that the following day I was very tired I think you don't realise it in one sense it was like mine was about an hour and 40 minutes I think in total and then the feedback so probably two hours altogether and you think gosh it was just two hours but actually it's exhausting and so I had a very lazy afternoon and then I had the following day off as well and I think that really helped just to kind of and process it all I think I hadn't realised quite how significant it would feel to finally do it and to go gosh you know I know I've got some amendments to do but to all intents and purposes I've just passed my doctorate and I just just kind of processing how significant a moment that was in my career was something I hadn't quite expected it to feel quite so emotional and it did so I think you know just allowing yourself a bit of time to go gosh that was good I did something really quite significant today is just allow yourself to just bask in it a little bit I think is worth just thinking about Please don't apologise for having opened the champagne I think that that is nobody needs to know how much was drunk do they It's just wonderful because you can really see how doing a PhD or an EDD or a doctorate in health and social care is transformative isn't it, it is for all of us and that's why I absolutely love my job is that I can do a little tiny bit to help you all out with that Thank you very much Claire, Sue and Daniel I really enjoyed the conversation it's great to hear your experiences and your suggestions for students who will be taking their vivas very soon I hope that students have found that very helpful