 This is Dennis McMahon and welcome to Positively Vermont and today my guest is Christopher Parker, the executive director of the Vermont Rail Action Network and we are going to be speaking about some very exciting things that are happening real soon with rail transportation right here in the state of Vermont and I want to thank Christopher for all his efforts and we're recording this on July 11th and the funny thing about it I just realized that I arrived in Vermont on July 11th, 2002 and I got here via Amtrak and coincidentally we're going to be speaking all about Amtrak's return to regular Vermont service. Welcome Christopher. First of all, thank you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and how you got involved with the Vermont Rail Action Network. So I grew up along a railroad line and saw the trains and it made an impact on me when I was a kid. I ended up working for a railroad on Cape Cod as a conductor and I was also marketing director for a little bit and I've always thought that trains are important, that rail service is something that, you know, for our environment it's a critical piece and also for our economy and so in 2007 I was recruited into this job as executive director for the Vermont Rail Action Network. I was at a point in my life where I could say yes and I did. So I have expertise in the technical side of railroads of operations and economics and marketing and I also have a background in some nonprofits that I worked at before this so that led me to this role here. Tell me what the Vermont Rail Action Network consists of, what its activities are, who its participants and some of its projects before we get to the big one. Well, we're an advocacy group. We support better train service. There are 6,000 people on our list of supporters about, excuse me, about 500 or so that are the core engaged people that, you know, that show up all the time. We include passenger train riders of course and freight shippers, rail riders themselves and the railroads have also given us support and those for whom the trains support their economic life. So for example, developers, owners of businesses that earn an income from people coming in on Amtrak, people who take the train to their clients, for example, things like that. How important is rail service to the state's economy? Vermont is a state that has always lived in orbit of the larger economies in Boston and New York City. So, you know, back in the days of the woolen mills, the wool from Vermont ended up getting processed and sent off to the larger textile mills down south and we're still doing that in terms of tourism and technology and people who retire. You know, it's all connected to the larger centers. So transportation to those centers is really critical and how close we can get. Not just in terms of miles, but in terms of time and in terms of, I call it being on the map. So for example, the hospital in Rutland uses Amtrak access to Rutland as part of their recruitment because they know the doctors, and I forget the details here, but there's a study that doctors are not willing to move X number of miles past their spouse's family. So they know that and they know that Vermont is perceived as being a little far and they know that having an Amtrak train is going to make people more willing to take the job at the Rutland hospital. So that's the being on the map. So how critical is it? Well, the thing about the economy is things happen at the margin, right? So if the economy goes bad and unemployment goes from whatever, five percent to ten percent, all of a sudden you've got suffering and it's a relatively small movement, but certain things make that difference. So think about New York City where 55 percent of the New Yorkers don't even have cars. Do we want their business as tourists up in Vermont? Of course, right? And if we didn't give them a way to get here, they wouldn't come. They go to the Poconos or something. So, you know, critical is a big word, but it plays a part for sure. Well, last time we spoke was about ten months ago, right in the dead center of the pandemic and we've spoken about some of the hopes and aspirations of the Vermont Rail Transit Rail Action Network and some of the activities you were working on then. And now it seems that some of those wishes have come true during the last ten months. Tell us how this developed. Well, so here we are today being July 11th that we're talking, July 19th. A little more than a week away, we're going to see our Amtrak trains come back and that's going to be a large celebration. I've been impressed with how many people think this is important and have already signed up to be on the train and come out at the station. So, how did we get here? Well, at one point, someone from the agency of transportation was saying, oh, the trains can't restart till September. And the issue there is that there's a lead time for the cars to be put back in service after their, you know, their mothball time and for the crews to relearn the territory and they'll tell me they already know the territory. But, you know, officially they need rides back and forth and they need to be retested on all the physical qualifications and so forth. And so there's a lead time, Amtrak said it would take three months. And that's why the train's not starting that day that Phil Scott took off his mask and said everything's open. We didn't have a train that day because of that lead time. We were afraid that that lead time would mean that we wouldn't get the train until the end of the summer and we'd lose the whole summer season. And rail supporters, I mean a lot of rail supporters thought the train should be just running right on through. As an organization, our position was we wanted to make sure that everyone remembered that lead time and that when it was time for the train to resume, that that decision was made far enough in advance that it could resume so that summer travel could be accommodated. So I guess we were heard. Well, you know, this wasn't just the railroad and wasn't just the government, it was citizens involvement, wasn't it? Oh, absolutely. Right. Letters, you know, people who are in a position to maybe have a little closer influence. Mayors, for example, who are in communication with the governor. And, you know, I think that everybody understood. I think, you know, it wasn't any kind of, I don't know, there isn't any kind of large drama here or nobody at fault or anything like that. It's just human nature that you don't want to be overlooked. Mm hmm. Well, it sounds all very exciting. And this, this is going to be starting on the 19th, which is a week from today. But tell us exactly what's going to be happening there before we get into the various components, the various celebratory locations and what's going to be happening. I know the library and s exjunctions very enthused. And I know this you mentioned one in St. Albans and Montpelier and all that before we get into that, just tell us what's going to happen that day statewide. What, what, what trains are coming back and what, what is the development? Well, the big thing is the train's going to run and you can ride it. So hard to top that. But we are topping that because at every station there will be a celebration. And not only that, Vermont Agency of Transportation worked with Amtrak to create a $1 fare. So you can ride it for, for cheap. At least you can today, July 11. At least some parts of the trip are already 80% sold out. So I'm pretty confident the train is going to be sold out. Your viewers hopefully will have a chance to get on. But I'm sure there will be crowds and I'm sure that it will be a festive day. So the day is going to kick off in St. Albans. That's where the, the Ramonters starts. And it's also going to kick off in Rutland where the East and Allen starts. And in both locations, there are going to be a lot of people who are the East and Allen starts. And in both locations, there are going to be dignitaries who have something to say. Right. I know that, that Dave Allaire, the mayor of Rutland will be on hand to, wouldn't say give the keys to the city to the arrivals because they're leaving, but the equivalent. And up in St. Albans, an Amtrak vice president will be there. And I believe if I remember right, the governor is coming and a number of people are participating in celebration. So it's going to be a little different, a different station depending on the local scene. Some of the stations are going to have music, bands and so forth. Some of that's still being arranged as we speak. Many of the stations will have speakers and workshops. One thing that is happening and this is important is there'll be workshops or little mini workshops or presentations from Operation Lifesaver. So I don't know if you know about Operation Lifesaver, but what they are is an organization that puts out the message of safety around railroad tracks and railroad crossings. So during this time, we know that people's driving habits have gotten worse. We know that the number of crashes stay the same or escalated, even though the amount of driving went down a lot. And we know that people get complacent because that's human nature. And so now we have a shift from one train a day to two in each direction, so two movements, to four movements a day with an Amtrak train in each direction. Of course, the Amtrak train is faster, you know, there's less margin for mistakes. So that message from Operation Lifesaver is, you know, stop when the lights start flashing and the gates go down, take it seriously and stop and don't mess around and don't think you have some seconds to try and get away with it. We all know that, but sometimes you have to be reminded. I remember we were discussing that program, but those areas now have been dormant well over a year, so it's going to require some special vigilance, isn't it? Crossings. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in some ways, it's just the ordinary responsibilities that we all should observe as drivers or people walking in the area, but you know, you know how it is. Well, tell us, so the two trains are the Ethan Allen and the Ramon. Yeah, that's right. Do you describe what each of those trains, where they go and what the level of service is? So the Ramon runs the length of Vermont, coming up from Massachusetts. It comes up from Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, New York, Hartford, Connecticut, Springfield, Massachusetts, and Stapsham Brattleboro, and up the Connecticut River Valley to White River Junction, and then up following Interstate 89, passing through Randolph, Montpelier, Waterbury, Essex Junction, up to St. Albans, and that train has a goal of continuing up to Montreal at some point in the future. And then the Ethan Allen is on the other side of the state, and it also comes up from New York City and goes through Albany and ends up in Rutland, Vermont, via Caffoldon. And it has a goal which will be realized in a year or so, emphasis on the or so, it's not quite established yet. And that goal is to end up in Burlington via Middlebury. So each side of the state has their train service from Amtrak. Is it possible once this starts? I didn't know we were serving Middlebury now. You could go from Burlington to Middlebury by train? Well, this begins in 2022, so not yet, but soon. That's the plan. They're going to have that new terminal downtown. Is that the one you're going to serve that? That's right. And of course, that new is a relative term because it is the historic Union Station that is now Main Street Landing. And on the lakeside, a new platform is being built. And there was a platform there, but this one will be better for ADA compliance. That is disability. Handicapped access and other safety features. That's wonderful. I mean, this is like a whole new era. You know, it's very exciting, actually. You must be excited. Yeah, it's good. I'm going to enjoy being on the first train, for sure. I will not be alone in that feeling. Tell us about that. How's that going to work? Well, I'm going to go up to St. Albans because I want to be there at that kickoff. So to me personally, that's my plan. And I'm going to go down to Brattleboro. I like Brattleboro. I lived there for a long time. And spend the afternoon there and take the train back up. I think about 130 other people are making the same trip from one station or another, according to the latest numbers I saw. So obviously other people like Brattleboro too. It's a nice place. I'm sure it'll be a good day for the restaurants in Brattleboro serving lunch, having an extra 130 people patronizing them. So other things about the day, like I said, I'm taking the train back in the afternoon, but if you want a shorter trip, shuttles are being arranged just for this day, July 19th, by the Agency of Transportation. So they'll return from Montelia Junction and from Brattleboro. And then the Ethan Allen is also having shuttles. So it is possible to get kind of a little round trip excursion. And those, both the train and the shuttles are very reservation only. So I'll throw out there that the link for this special fair and for the shuttles is Amtrak.com slash Vermont. If you're trying to get it from the regular Amtrak site, you won't get access to the shuttles and you won't get access to the special fair. But Amtrak.com slash Vermont is just for this celebratory one day event. And you can buy tickets through that website? You can. And suppose you're assuming you've got a dollar. So the dollar fair, that's amazing. Just like the concept of intrastate travel, maybe getting on an S extension and going to Montpelgar, going to Brattleboro, that is just such a novel concept, not just going or coming from New York City or Washington or places like that. Well, you know, there's a deeper lesson here. So obviously, this is a celebratory day. And this is a day for marking the event. And you could call the whole thing marketing if you wanted to. But also, the deeper lesson is the influence of pricing on ridership. So we're going to have a sold out train here. We're going to have a train that's sold out a couple of weeks before it even runs. And some of that is because it's the first day and a lot of attention and emotional fair. Yes, for sure. But it is also because of the price. And if we're serious about getting people out of cars, particularly on the long trips for the benefit of the environment, then pricing is part of the equation because, you know, it's a competitive world and the competition is driving and people's perception, which is not accurate, but people's perception is that the highways are free. All they need is gas. Nobody thinks about wear and tear in our society until they get to the time where they write it off on their taxes, if you do, then you then you charge 50 cents a mile. But that's not what some people said. So the competitive game here is about price at some level. Some people are so sold on the benefits of a rail trip, like me, right? I get somewhere and I will arrive relaxed if I take the train. And I will have used my time in a way I want to rather than just, you know, staring at the headlights in front of me, the taillights in front of me. But price makes the difference. How's that being worked out? I mean, we have the $1 emotional fair, but I don't know if you converse them with the fairs now, but what are the fairs going to be like if you can test them? So Amtrak's goal is to get the maximum revenue that's possible for each train movement. So they do it like the airlines, like yield management. So if you buy a ticket in advance, it's going to be cheaper. And as they see that there's going to be less and less space, the fairs go up. And that makes sense from the perspective of maximizing revenue. It makes sense from the perspective of, I guess, looking out for the financial interests of the taxpayers who are supporting the service. Because if certain days have more value than other days, like the day that UVM goes back in session, the train is routinely sold out. So from a public financial perspective, that makes sense. It makes sense when you think of the train as a perishable and finite resource. Every train has 272 seats, more or less. And those seats go away when the train leaves. They're not available anymore. But if they're not sold, then it's from the perspective of the operator and taxpayers, of course, it is revenue that didn't come in. So you want those fair to be low enough to fill up as many seats as you can. That's the theory. So not everybody likes that idea because the value is on a fixed inventory of seats and on earning as much money as possible for the service. So other people would say, well, the point of the train is to bring as many people to Vermont as possible. So we should always charge a low fare. Where they would say the point of the train is to get people out of their cars, especially for these long trips that can, in fact, emit as much as your commute for many months. So in order to get as many people out of the cars, we should just put on more cars if more people want to run on these busy days. From a financial perspective, you wouldn't do that. You would allocate the inventory. But it all depends on your values and spending public resources always at the trade-offs. It sounds like your work has just begun. The effort to make sure this is promoted, to make sure it's sustained, to make sure it's popularized, to make sure it's economical, and also bringing interest from community and industry leaders. It sounds like you've got your work cut out. Well, yeah, there is definitely work to be done. And the first thing that comes to mind is it isn't just my work or even the agency of transportation or Amtrak, because in fact, this train is valued by Vermonters. And so together, valuing the train, all of us make the train successful. And also, it's the role of an advocacy organization to bring forth the support that's already out there among the train supporters. So it's all of us. It's the team. It's the people who value the train. Having said that, I mentioned the goal of going back to Montreal. And that is very clear as a goal that has been acknowledged. But there's some steps still left to occur. That includes an agreement to build a customs facility in Montreal Central Station. That's been agreed to in principle. At this point, it's detailed. It also includes some track work and some other things. However, even though it's been agreed to in principle, when you've got customs from two countries and a province and another two states and Amtrak and so forth, it's been a slow process. And this is what leaders are good for is making this stuff happen. But it does need to happen. And it does take public support to keep the ball rolling along to keep everybody's attention on it. And then looking further ahead, it's time to think about a second train in the Connecticut River Valley. Massachusetts has put on additional frequencies, additional runs south of Greenfield, Massachusetts. And they're just sitting overnight. That train that's already running out of Greenfield, really ought to be running out of White River Junction. So the amount of resources it would take to run out of White River Junction is trivial, honestly, because it's already running. You already got the cars, you even got the crew. You just need to put them up in the hotel at White River Junction. I can see that a lot has to be done. And what we like to ask here on Positively, Vermont, is what do you need as an organization? And what can our viewers do to support your efforts and some of the goals that you just discussed? Yeah. So our website is railvermont.org. So if you go to the website, you'll see a sort of summary view of what we're up to and what we're about. Joining our email list is our chance to communicate to you. It's our chance to let you know what's going on and educate in a sense. And of course, two-way conversation is great. So our organizational or advocacy power is the numbers of people that are on our mailing list and are willing to make their support known politically to their representatives and to the governor and the delegation and so forth. There is an ideology that maybe this should all be private enterprise and maybe it should, but that's not the world we live in. We live in a world where highways and airports and railways are all the result of political processes and also the planning process that our regional planning organizations organize. So, you know, we're in a democracy and we vote, but the other thing that happens in the democracy is this level of sort of constant feedback that we give to our leaders and our government. And that happens through advocacy organizations like us, but it happens through the direct contact. And really, being an engaged citizen, you have a lot more power than you know you do. Well, that's great, because I really believe that your efforts and some of the items we discussed over 10 months ago did have an impact getting people interested in this. And, you know, I think that's important to emphasize. You know, one thing I've learned in this work is when I give attention to something, things really do shift. And it's not because that's a lesson for me, that's just a lesson. When you give attention for something, things shift. That's great. I mean, that's really great. I want to congratulate you and your colleagues on this because it's almost a miracle. I mean, from what I've seen over the past time period, this is really going to be lovely. And particularly, you know, all the other things about the leap season and holidays and schools and, you know, going to college, looking at colleges, education, I can just see the entire picture opening up, but it's going to take work, as you said. Sure. Well, life just works sometimes, isn't it? Yeah. Well, it's work, but play. Yeah. And the recreational and tourist potential here, a great impact, you know, just even for the brand, you know, the Vermont brand. That's right. You can get here by train. It's just a lovely thing. So we're going to, once, as soon as things develop, we're going to bring you back for a progress report in the near future. Thank you. It was good to speak to you 10 months ago and what's happened since then. And I want to congratulate you and your organization for the role that you played in this. Well, thank you. I appreciate the chance to talk to you and talk to your viewers. That's great. Well, thank you very much. My guest today has been Christopher Parker, the executive director of the Vermont Rail Action Network. This is Dennis McMahon. Thank you for watching Positively Vermont.