 webinar series of the IT Journal on Future and Evolving Technologies. My name is Alessia Maldarditi from ITU, the International Telecommunication Union. ITU is the United Nations Specialized Agency for Information and Communication Technologies. ITU allocates frequencies to the services that make use of the radio communication spectrum. It develops standards and assists developing countries in setting up their information and communication infrastructure. ITU and academia share a commitment to the public interest and this commitment is embodied by the IT Journal which offers a complete coverage of communication and the working paradigms free of charge for both readers and authors. Our journal welcomes submissions at any time on any topic within its scope and we believe that this new webinar series will inspire more contributions from researchers around the world. It is my pleasure to open today this webinar with Dr. Misha Doller, Chief Architect in Ericsson from the Silicon Valley who will speak about 6G and the Metaverse that will power Eolographic Society. We count on your support to make this webinar an exciting experience so please submit your questions via the Q&A channel. We will address them to the speaker during the Q&A session. After the talk and the Q&A please stay online. We have something very special for you. Dr. Doller agreed to a very personal chat. He will share with us some lessons learned over the years that might perhaps be useful for some of you. It is now my pleasure to introduce Professor Ian Achilditz, Editor-in-Chief of the IT Journal as well as Founder and President of Truva from the United States. Ian is Ken Baier's Chair Professor in Telecommunication Emeritus at the Georgia Institute of Technology. In the last two decades he has established many research centers worldwide including in Spain, in Finland, South Africa and Saudi Arabia. He is Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Impact Factor Journals and highly cited and at the top of the most prestigious international rankings. He is visiting distinguished professor in several universities around the world. His current research interests are in 6G, 7G, hologram communication, Therahertz communication, Internet on Bio-Nano things, Molecular Communication, Nano Networks and many others. So Professor Achilditz, the floor is yours for your opening remarks and to introduce our speaker. Thank you. Thanks a lot Alessia. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening, good night all around the world wherever you are. Welcome to our webinar series of the IT Journal for Future Devolving Technologies. This is our fourth speaker in the series. I have the great pleasure and honor to present to you our speaker today, Professor Misha Dauler. Before I present his very interesting biography I would like to share my personal connection to him. I met Misha 2005, actually I met him before, but he invited me to King's College. He was organizing an IEEE conference. I think I had to give a tutorial on wireless sensor networks and we had great time. We talked about our interests and I found them extremely interesting. One of the maybe most interesting persons you can imagine in the research society, honestly, I really mean it. He has an incredible background. First of all, he has a multicultural background from his parents. Also, he has these unique futures like musician and intellectual because he comes from an intellectual family by the way. It's really very unique and the guy is full of knowledge and extremely friendly person by the way. And I'm really grateful we kept our contact. We met at many conferences and I always joked about his red shoes, the man with the red shoes. I don't know that he still has them. So, we are very grateful to Misha for accepting our invitation to give this distinguished seminar covering 6G metaverse and holographic communication. Misha is currently a chief architect with Ericsson Incorporation in Silicon Valley, USA since 2021. And as I mentioned to you, he's also very unique and how actually I envy him that he jumps around with Kinton Kegel in Germany, like with the family and kids between different countries. So, when I met him, he was in London with King's College and then he came back there in 2013, became a professor by the way and director in wireless communications research at King's College London. And before, as I explained to you, he was with CCTC from 2008 to 2013. I'm trying to find out my, okay, that in the CCTC in Barcelona, by the way. And he's the co-founder of Smart Cities pioneering company, World Sensing, where he was the CTO and I'm trying to find all my notes here. And then in the meantime, he was also in Orange in Paris, France after King's College. Then he went to CCTC Barcelona, then he went back to King's College London. And then finally now he is with Ericsson. So, he has many, many accolades, awards. He's one of the top 1% of the scientists with the citations. He has many impactful papers and patterns, many patterns. He has very good leading skills. So, in short, I really say these from my mind now because I lost my text here. And I'm extremely happy and honored to present you, Misha, again. Thanks, Misha, for accepting our invitation. And we look forward to listening to your presentation. Thank you. Bye. Thank you, Ian. Thanks for this super kind introduction. And really, we've been friends for now almost two decades. And by the way, every time I start a new topic, I know that Ian has done it 10, if not 20 years ago. So, let's see how today fairs. And I thought being in Silicon Valley now, there's no way I can't do a presentation without talking about the meet-up. Everybody is completely fired up here in the valley from different perspectives, really. And working now for a vendor, connectivity telco vendor, Ericsson, in the United States, talking about 6G is also a must. So, let's combine these two topics and see how they fit together, how there's really holography, XR, and all our immersive society will emerge over the years to come, what the role of the metaverse will be, and whether 5G can do it or if we need 6G. And these are the type of answers I'd like to get today. And of course, looking forward to your opinions and looking forward to your questions. I have to say, you know, whenever I put the title metaverse somewhere in my presentation, the world is very kind of split in opinion. So, really, really looking forward to your points of view. So, I just wanted to go back, you know, to the actual terminology who invented metaverse, really. And it was Neil Stevens and I met him in Stanford the other day. It was really fantastic, you know, meeting him, talking to him. And, you know, he coined that term quite a while back. We talked 30 years back as part of his, you know, award-winning science fiction novel, Snow Crash, right? So, in the terminology was really a portmanteau of meta and universe. It actually got a lot of things right back then. It really fascinated me as somebody, you know, who like Ian, I have to say, you know, really is able to look into the future as if they have a crystal ball. Not all of a lot of people probably read Neil Stevens' novels. He's quite well known with literature kind of in the cyberpunk ecosystem. But probably you haven't heard about him. But, you know, now that meta in October, sorry, Facebook has rebranded to meta in October, you know, suddenly everybody's back to him. And I asked him, you know, is there any prediction you do for the next 30 years to come? He told me, but I can't tell you that. So, let's see how this plays out. Maybe you can invite me in 38 years time again, and we can have a rundown of that. So, here you go, the metaverse that was Neil Stevens. Now, what are examples? Well, it turns out, you know, the term is now 30 years old. It's super hot at the moment. But we have been having these metaverses already before, you know. Minecraft, anybody, I'm not sure, you know, your age group, but my daughter, my younger daughter, Dalia, she's living in Minecraft. You know, she's there all the time. She builds a well. She's with her friends. There's a, there's a chat within Minecraft. And often she would have what's up on and just chat with her friends who are now scattered all around the world because we have been traveling, you know, as a family moving around the world. So, you know, Minecraft is really that social space for my daughter to be there, do things and communicate and socialize. Maybe you play Fortnite, I don't know, but, you know, again, a game of, you know, probably from a graphics point of view is a different level to Minecraft. It has a different remit really. But we're talking about the game here, which has been, you know, fleshed out by Epic. And Epic is behind Unreal Engine, a super duper graphics engine. I'm in love with Unreal Engine. Unreal Engine 5 came out. So they have been firing out Fortnite. You will have heard of Fortnite, not least because Travis Scott did a fantastic concert in there. So, you know, there's something happening there from a social point of view. It's not only going out there, battling, shooting and all this. There's actually social gathering. And then we have other stuff, which you probably have never heard about. And I just thought I'll introduce you a little bit about this. This is really Decentraland. And again, you know, it's a bit like Minecraft of Fortnite. You just go in there and you spend time there. The interesting construct of Decentraland is it's not owned by anybody. It's a completely distributed artifact, whereas Minecraft and Fortnite are owned by companies. Fortnite is by Epic. Decentraland is a decentralized land, right? So there's no ownership per se. And pertinent to our comms ecosystem, there's Ifland. It was fired out in, I think last year, about this time last year, by one of the leading telcos in Korea. And it's basically a metaverse land, again, based on distributed ledger. And I'll come to this in a moment. But the main aim is, you know, spend time there. They're offering it for doing conferences. So if you want to do a conference and really social engagement with your colleagues, have meetings, workshops, et cetera, Ifland is your solution. So we're seeing these ecosystems emerging where suddenly, you know, with accelerated by the pandemic, we see people gravitating into these social spaces, which aren't actually physical. So they're there, they're coming, they're coming fast and furious. And the big question is really, what do they have in common? Right? So what do all these spaces have in common? Well, first of all, and I put this really first because I think that's the most important thing that the metaverse really embraces a social element. This is not you or me being in a singular room virtual reality, you're kind of, you know, playing a game alone, or you're exploring some space on a 3D Google map or Google Earth. No, the metaverse is really about, you know, recreating that social space, that social fabric, which we enjoy as a society, you know, in physical environments. But now we do that in the virtual world. And I gave you the example of my younger daughter playing Minecraft. And indeed, it is a very social engagement. This is not about, you know, her being alone in there, she's completely bored, she would never do that. It's being together and the metaverses will evolve over time. And hopefully at some point, we'll be able to look into each other's eyes, we'll be able to touch each other, hack each other, shake hands and recreate these worlds, which we enjoy currently in the physical realm. Second element, it is, of course, virtual. You know, there's a, whether that's virtual reality or whether it is augmented reality, there's a digital element which is somehow overlaid over that physical world, either completely or partially, right? And the role of that virtual is really to help you bridge these physical gaps and also amend it with new capabilities, things we couldn't do before, things which physics wouldn't allow us to do. And suddenly, you can tamper with nature and really go beyond what, you know, we were able to do as human beings so far. And third, of course, we do have technologies which accelerate the metaverse, right? So we have stuff like Web 3.0, 5G, 6G, AI, XR. So, you know, VR and AR and haptic kind of devices. And it's a fascinating ecosystem emerging there. And I thought today what I'll do is I'll spend time on at least three of these accelerating technologies. And you will understand that the metaverse could exist without these technologies. It could, right? So you will see that as I go through the presentation, but clearly having these technologies in place allows us to accelerate that whole process, the uptake in building that digital social fabric. Now, the three technologies I'd love to talk to you about today is Web 3.0 as a construct that's quite new to us from a telco point of view. And I thought I'll spend a bit of time on this. I won't do any fundamentals on blockchain or anything, but I just give you an overview and I would like you to understand how that sits with a metaverse really. The second thing I'll talk about are the new devices, XR devices, holographic devices, all that stuff. How does that sit with that metaverse ambitions? And last but not least, we'll talk about the network. And at the very end of the presentation, I'll pose three questions to you. Two serious questions and one more of a request. But keep alert, pay attention and let's see if we can answer these questions at the very end. So let's get going. Let's start with Web 3.0. Now, what is Web 3.0? Well, it is in fact a blockchain construct. And blockchains are super simple. There's no magic there, to be honest. We sometimes call blockchains ledgers and a ledger in English. The old English was a book. It's simply a book. So a ledger where you keep entries, specifically the church would keep entries who was born on what day in that ledger. Now, the problem with these ledgers was that if the church burns down, the information is gone. So we then invented, you know, book printing and we started to create distributed ledgers, make copies of many books, right? So whether that these are Ian's books or mine books or Neil Stevenson books, we always printed like 100,000 copies. Now, to actually burn or destroy all these copies in one go is quite difficult already. So the notion of having many copies distributed around the world is quite attractive. And if you can do that digitally, therefore amended in real time, mad information, add pages in real time, that's a huge advantage. And that's what blockchain is doing, right? So we are just writing every time, you know, new pages, their digital pages, think of them like a Microsoft Word page, their transactions going in or anything you want to do. Then we build a cryptographic hash of that page and we link it cryptographically to the previous page. In other words, you know, if somebody was to rip out this page and this digital page, they couldn't do it because it wouldn't sit well with the previous and the subsequent page. So therefore, we have a lot of cryptographic magic happening there to make sure that nobody can tamper with our ledger. And then what we do is we distribute it. Okay, so I have a copy of the ledger on my computer and because blockchains are distributed, we would copy it to maybe millions of computers around the world. So we're creating a construct which gives us provenance because you can't really modify information, you know, in this single church ledger, somebody could go back and just with typical score over and change the birthday or change, you know, the birth name, whatever. We can't do this with blockchains anymore. And, you know, to completely change information, you would need to, you know, get majority. So you probably need to get control of millions of computers to make that happen. So this is what it is, right? And Web 3.0 is nothing else but a blockchain construct. And people realize that, you know, rather than just putting transactions into a Word document, you can actually run code. You can run code and execute it in a distributed fashion. And it has the same advantage because there's no company which can kill the application. And we started to call this a D-apps for distributed apps, okay? And it gives a lot of longevity, provenance, trust. In other words, you know, an application which before maybe Chrome, we had to Chrome the browser of Google decides, you know, to stop the Chrome project. That's it. Or what, okay? Or meta, you know, decides to kill WhatsApp or Facebook. Raito or Dropbox decides to stop functioning. That's it. They close it and we as users are completely dependent on that. Along comes Web 3.0 and suddenly we have a construct which is completely distributed, right? So Chrome goes into Brave. If you haven't used Brave yet, please do. A fantastic web browser. You know, Drop Jane goes into this IPFS. So it's an international kind of distributed packet file system. You know, you see all these different applications here and suddenly we're going from a construct Web 3.0 which is read and write and very interactive. So we love it. You can hear me right now speaking. But there's no ownership and we have no trust really, right? So we believe that our information and WhatsApp is enter encrypted. Who knows, right? Who knows what's really on the way. And so therefore the ability to have really building a very trusted internet is quite important than an internet which doesn't have a single sole responsibility and ownership. And that's, I think, really, really powerful. So what we see is really this new OZ stack coming. You know, I call this a new OZ stack and you will have learned that from your computer science day. You know, we have abstracted various coms functionalities. So there's this Web 3.0 calls really for something completely new. And at the lower part we have this infrastructure layer, right? I call that also an operating system. Think of it as an operating system. These are our blockchain, okay? So our actual mechanical blockchain, this act of filling in the ledger and distributing it across the world, right? So we have different ones. You probably know, you know, Bitcoin would be one of these infrastructure layers, but we have others such as Ethereum or Solana or EOS, okay? And then these ones really form the basis of our Web 3.0 ecosystem. What you can then can do, you can build on top is, you know, what I call this token layer or the value layer. And this would be essentially building coins. You know, you start building coins out of your basic blockchain. You know, the philosophy behind this is really very simple. You just attach some value to each of the transactions which are happening. The idea is essentially that based on one single blockchain, let's take the example of Ethereum, you can build different coins, right? So the examples I've given here is, you know, the decentralized token, the sandbox token, you know, they're all based on that operating system called Ethereum. And then we need, of course, you know, ways of paying for that. So you need a wallet and minimask is a great wallet, you know, which works really well with a brave browser. And then you need to exchange also your coins. You want to exchange maybe, you know, a sandbox coin with a decentralized coin. You would like to exchange it maybe against the US dollar, the euro, wherever you are really in the world. So we need to exchange as a coin base came along. So we have this whole value ecosystem, you know, arriving at token layer. And of course, we also have assets, NFTs, you will have heard about this. I could probably give another one or two hours webinar on NFTs. But you know, websites like OpenSea or Rarible are quite popular. I'm actually an OpenSea and I think on Rarible as I can't remember. And in the, you know, I published content there, NFTs. And the beauty is, you know, and listen to this, you know, as long as your token layer runs on the very same operating system or so on the same infrastructure, they're completely interoperable, right? So there's no problem. I can, for instance, a OpenSea, you know, if it runs a, it runs on Ethereum, you know, I can port essentially value from one ecosystem to another very seamlessly because it sits on the same operating system. So this is really fascinating. And once we've done this, you know, we've sorted out this value, the token layer, we can go to the application layer, the uplay. And this is where the exciting apps really come. Decentraland, you know, Sandbox, upland. These are these metaverses, build, you know, graphical instances, you know, build in a distributed way where you can gather, you can mingle, you can exchange value. And for instance, you know, Decentraland and Sandbox run on Ethereum. And what I can do now is, and that is really fascinating, I can, you know, use my assets, which I've uploaded an OpenSea across Decentraland and Sandbox, or I can buy something from, you know, using my Metamask, buy a Coinbase, I buy in dollars and asset fees. I like maybe a red jacket in the metaverse or on, as an NFT, I buy that and then I can use it in any of the platforms, which actually uses the input layer. So that's what's really that very standardized way of operations. And you can see we have different blockchains. So we still have a little bit of work to do, but as long as they're running the same blockchain, that's the magic you can do. But there's still one challenge, right? Ladies and gentlemen, there's a big challenge of energy. You may have heard about this, the FT has published, the Financial Times has published a really fascinating issue there. You know, Bitcoin is always in the, in the prime light. You know, to make these blockchains work, you need to, you need to really mine coins. It requires a lot of compute power. In the meantime, you know, the power used by Bitcoin is in the order of the power consumption of entire countries, right? Entire countries. This is crazy. We're trying to get away, you know, from fossil fuel. We're trying to, to become more energy efficient, more sustainable. And along comes a construct, which seems to be extremely, you know, attractive, yet consumes so much energy. And Ethereum has been running on proof of work for, for many years. And it's now migrating to proof of stake, which is an interesting migration because it will now become 99.99% more energy efficient. That migration has not happened yet entirely. Phase one has been completed. Phase two was due any day now. So hopefully this can happen. And then the whole ecosystem, which is powering, you know, my tokens, my, my NFTs and the Metaverse landscape, you know, will become more energy efficient. Now a lot of work more to do and a lot of research work really more to do. And if we were to embed, you know, blockchain to telco, then we would need to adopt straight ahead these very energy efficient and very, you know, sustainable blockchain methodologies. So, so I just want to leave that with you. So you don't forget about this. Let's move on now to the, you know, to the XR devices. And this is really your gateway into the Metaverse, right? So we need them. We can't do anything about it. And think about it, you know, the, the, let's say all the applications we run now on the wireless internet, we're really dependent on the images of the smartphone, first the iPhone and then other smartphones came along. So the, the devices are super important. We always need two or three things to fall together at the same time. These are the devices, you know, the networks and the application. So therefore the application I just talked about, there's, let's talk about the devices now, let's later talk about the networks. And, you know, the Metaverse not necessarily needs to be consumed via a VR headset. So you don't necessarily need to do that. And you can use your smartphone. You know, there's perfectly, it's a perfectly good medium for you to view it, your computer, it's a 2D screen, yet you're navigating a 3D world. And we have all done this before. And whether you're, you're actually using your, you know, moving your phone around or you're using your mouse or your cursor to actually navigate, it's possible. It's a bit cumbersome, but it's possible. Then, you know, to go into this 3D perception, a fascinating company, I visited the other day in Silicon Valley, it's called Leia. And Leia has developed a new technology, which allows you essentially to look at the 2D screen and get a super duper 3D impression. I was really impressed. I didn't expect this at all. In fact, they're, they're working, you know, if you go to their website, you will see they're working essentially with several layers in the, in the 2D screen, in a sense. So the 2D screen isn't really 2D. It's a 3D stacked layers, building these holographic impressions. And you know, I played a game on that. It was so immersive and it didn't have that problem or field of view where you couldn't really figure out where to look at, etc. So really fantastic technology. Then of course, we've got 3D stuff coming out or has been around for a long time. VR headsets, which I think VR, I think is great for enterprise applications. Do I see that happening for consumer space long-term to go? I don't think so. I mean, I'm happy to be challenged here. It's, it is clearly, you know, interesting for a niche population gamers or anybody who's maybe in architecture or wants to play around with a 3D construct, 3D worlds is very passionate about metaverse. VR is great. So now, you know, it allows us to, to really do a 3D rendering at high fidelity in a very controlled manner. But, you know, I'm not sure if you have used it, I've used it. And the number of times I had my daughters, you know, making sure I don't crash into the TV, you know, it was very high. So, you know, it's clean, not very practical. And of course, we have seafood capabilities now, ecosystem works on this. So maybe, you know, the Jerry's still out. But for me, it's nice to be I have two headsets at home. I play around, but I don't see a huge future for that. Now, holographics and AR is a different story altogether, you know. So we have, I'll show you in a moment, you know, Ericsson has done quite a lot of work on holography as well, how to set this up really from a device and networking point of view. AR is coming now big time and, you know, rumors are ripe and around about four, you know, all the big device companies here in Silicon Valley to release devices over the next month. And now hopefully this will happen. We don't know really, but hopefully this will happen and we'll have really advanced augmented reality classes, which are giving you this overlay, you can then play Pokemon Go, you know, in a much more seamless way. But for XR, you know, we are talking about XR as an Uber term for AR VR plus actually haptic engagement, right? So we really want to transmit sensors. So you got these haptic gloves and I've worked a lot with haptic gloves in the past. And, you know, we've done by my friends in Spain, I was a new digital great company, you know, there's new stuff coming also from the consumption of AR module vision, doing AR contact lenses, they're really advancing the game here. So the ecosystem is evolving. And I called it more than 3D because it has that 4D element of time because you move around and your compute engines need to recalculate your spatial construct. So therefore there's a very strong temporal dependency on your compute stack, which is why, you know, I personally call this beyond 3D, you know, call it 4D, whatever you want to call it, 5D or 6D, you know, that is essentially matches. I hope that makes sense to you. But one thing which we really need to get right is that, you know, that untetheredness. And if anybody of you have used, you know, VR or, you know, prototype AR glasses, you know, they're often tested because they need battery, they need, you know, the comms channel because the rendering is very complicated and it's done on a GPU super driver machine, maybe two meters from you. So you need a cable out of this. It is very cumbersome. So over the years, we have migrated now to the end game, which is that 5G virtual reality device and 5G augmented reality device. So the idea is to have a chip, in fact, it's not an idea, it's reality, a chip in your XR device. And that would seamlessly connect to a 5G system, super dribble low latency, high bandwidth. So a lot of stuff can actually be, you know, offloaded and the compute tasks can be done somewhere else. And that gives us that flexibility, gives this untetheredness, really this being together. And, you know, the ecosystem now has really evolved so far that we are ready, we're ready to get this out, operators ready to roll it out, we just need the devices really to come along and make that happen. And from what happens in the background is really interesting to understand. And I just want you to know what's actually happening when within the next months you will buy an XR device and you put it on your head. So there's a lot of stuff that XR device needs to do in real time, you know, like really quickly within milliseconds. Let's start from the bottom left here. So you need to get sensor data, right, you need a choir sensor data, you need to get your localization data. So point cloud data, you need to do spatial mapping, you need to optimize the map, you need to detect objects, you need to track objects. And then comes all the other rendering to that, right. So, but the basic tasks of a typical AI device are these, so you can do them all on your device, right. So you can say, hey, I'm going to have, you know, all of it run on the device and it's quite computationally intensive, battery runs out, you need very big batteries, or you need to recharge it after a few minutes, not very practical. So we started to looking at offloading this, right. So in a mobile edge cloud, in a cloud, which isn't very far from here. So it can't be on the other side of the world because the tasks need to be done very quickly. So you see Vincent in a low offload scenario, my augmented reality glasses would maybe start, you know, offloading maybe my map optimization point cloud data, and that's all good. In the mid offload scenario, we would offload more in an high offload scenario with offload everything except the actual sensor acquisition. So you still need, would they get the lighter point cloud or the optical data, but you know, you can offload this. And that means my raw data is being streamed from my glasses and mention, these are my glasses. That is being streamed in real time to a mobile edge cloud. There we would have a compute stack, you know, a GPU, CPU, maybe, you know, cloud exile from Nvidia. So a lot of computing happening here very quickly. And then it's being streamed down back to me like a Netflix movie. So I have the impression it's happening on my glasses, but in reality, you know, only the controls gone up, rendering done somewhere else, and then being downstream like a Netflix movie onto my glasses and all that has to happen within a few milliseconds. Because if not, if you move and you don't get that updated spatial information, you know, it's worth nothing. You get very dizzy. Nobody will like that. So therefore that was a big challenge we needed to solve. And I think 5G really stood up to that challenge. And you know, we have done a fantastic demo here, my wonderful Ericsson colleagues here, so we can validate together with AT&T, you know, with Nvidia Qualcomm Dreamscape. You know, as a very cross-disciplinary exercise, really, you know, Ericsson provided the base station equipment and the core network and all the networking gear. Qualcomm provided, you know, the chip, of course, on the device side. Then we had AT&T providing the spectrum and the overlay below. You know, we had Dreamscape and we have another company provided, you know, the immersive content. And the final result was, you put on your VR headset, completely untethered, and you had a very immersive experience in this Harry Potter world. If you're a big Harry Potter fan, visit Los Angeles, Burbank, Universal Studios, and you get a fantastic kind of experience there. And I think Dreamscape also has now an experience up and running there. So there's a lot of really interesting stuff happening, they have Verizon has now kicked in, other operators have really latched on their power of that fully immersive thing. Then, you know, Ericsson, this mobile of Congress presented something pioneering, it's called Polotaring. And, you know, that was a video, I couldn't make it really work. So I invite you to click on this or just Google that link. I believe, you know, the recording, you can stop the recording, just have a look on this link, Google that, and sign up to this and you will be able to see that. What you see is a young lady on the left communicating with a holota of another lady on the right. And this is fully immersive, very, very high rendering graphics, very high quality. Everybody was, well, not surprised, shocked, almost to see the quality of that engagement. And that video there shows you really on how this has been done, the behind the scenes on how we have done that. And of course, at the very center of that is a very powerful network called 5G, right? So have a look at that video. But what's the roadmap now? What's the roadmap for our holographic society for this fully immersive engagement, our, you know, the future of that digital social fabric leading to this made of us? Well, you know, today we have the teffa devices. In the near future, we've got to get these 5G low offload and medium offload AR devices. It's going to move into a high offload arena in the, in the, in the long term, as well as these contact lenses, which I find a fairly fascinating construct. You know, some of, some of you will say this is a bit black mirror scenario. Happy to discuss that. I think loads of ethical implications, privacy implications, etc. We can talk about this at the very end there. But that's the roadmap as we see that you see some dots there. We do know the numbers, of course, we don't much like to talk about this, but you can work it out yourself. There's not too much magic there to do to derive these upload rates and download rates and then, you know, get these milliseconds. But what I did is rather than taking our numbers, I dug out a really great report by the GSMA and let's start talking really about connectivity now. You know, GSMA has published that cloud ARVR white paper. Just search for that. You can literally download that with within 10 seconds. And I pulled out one figure, which really struck me there. And this is really the requirement. So if you're really going immersive, we're always going more immersive. People are saying, you know, we don't need this and all that, but, you know, the trend's always been there. Look at what we need for a 360 virtual reality 4K type of video transmission with a typical H265 codec. Well, you know, the top two lines is something we can handle. We can handle a 5G from a data rate from a latency point of year. Now as you go down and you go to higher resolutions and more immersive engagement, you know, 5G is a stretch. So you can do that at peak rate for individual users. But we are really thinking of powering a society at billions of people around the world. And this is the very first time we need to start saying, hey, you know, if we are serious about these metaverse constructs, if we are serious about this new social digital fabric, which hopefully is very human centric, right? Not only kind of tech centric, but if we are serious about this, you know, we need to start talking 6G, right? So we need to understand what do we really need to get out of, you know, these future networks. I just wanted to show you these data rates. That is alarming, right? So we're talking about half a gigabits per second. Just to maintain your, in the future, you know, you're fully immersive virtual augmented reality stream. So, you know, it's a huge data rate. So these are the challenges, ladies and gentlemen, there's loads of challenges. I don't want to talk about all of that. We talked a bit about the, you know, ubiquitous access to really make sure these multiverses can be connected to give you a feeling of a metaverse. And, you know, we are mentioning multiverses here because it kind of resembles a little bit our earlier days of the local area networks, right? So some of you on this webinar will remember the days when we actually constructed the internet. You remember the 90s, when we were nailing Ethernet cables on the walls in our homes in our dorms. These were the days we constructed the local area network, right? So the internet wasn't really around. And then we connected everything and we had IP, we had codecs, and suddenly we constructed this fantastic fabric. And that we are a little bit in this in the multiverse as well. So we don't have a metaverse. We don't have, as we have the internet now, we have loads of metaverses. And that's what we call the multiverses. And they're not connected at the moment. If they run on a different fabric, if they don't run on the same blockchain, they can't talk to each other, right? Or a centralized or the distributed one, they just can't talk to each other. So therefore we need, we need to really make sure we connect them well. We need the lightweight devices and that is coming. And we figured out, you know, in Ericsson, we did a fascinating study and I provided you the link in the previous slide that when you do offload, you know, most, if not all of the tasks to an edge cloud, the energy consumption on your device goes down by a factor seven, right? So think of it as an order of magnitude improvement. Orders of magnitude improvements always move the needle. Okay, they always allow you to do something significantly better cheaper. And therefore we are very hopeful that with the 5G offloading capabilities, we are able now to enable devices which are, you know, smaller, have a smaller form factor, cheaper, smaller batteries are lighter. So just a more pleasant experience for us consumers. We need to get a good fabric of our edge cloud, the third point here, really make sure we have a dense enough global compute infrastructure. And, you know, all the big players, the hyperscalers, you know, and companies like Equinix, et cetera, you know, really providing this around the world, they're making sure that there's a cloud within 10 milliseconds, no matter where you are on the planet, right? So this is the kind of the new mantra of the cloud community, make sure that a cloud is somewhere, a compute fabric is very close to the consumers. And that will help us to re-enhance the level of the rendering, graphics get better, engagement gets better, the social construct goes better, hugely important for you. But let me go into two topics which are very close to my heart. And, you know, topic number four is standards. We really need standards. We need telco standards for the metaverse. I alluded to this a little bit when I talked about the multiverses. We need standards for haptics and holographics, right? And what we don't want is to have a vendor lock-in, right? So we don't want a haptic glove which only works with the haptic glove of the same vendor, or an exoskeleton which works with the holographic device, you know, of the same vendor. It has to be a very standardized ecosystem. And I had recognized it four or five years back and I co-founded the IEEE tactile internet working group where we are specifically insisted on the creation of a haptic standards working group. So that is led by people who really understand this world. I don't understand that world. We have, you know, Eckhart from TU Munich driving that. Fascinating research, fascinating output now. We are really ready now with these standards documents. You know, chime in if you want to. And we need the same thing for holographics. We need the same thing for Metabas. So we really need these standards to be defined. And I really call for the ITU really, and I'm now on the ITU call to really help us do this. And I'd be happy, you know, to help the ITU define the Metabas standards to really get this going. And last but not least, you know, we need to stop thinking as a platform. The networking community needs to something like a platform, right? This is what the hyperscalers have done, the cloud providers. This is what the application providers have done. They think as a platform. And sitting in Silicon Valley, of course, we're very keen on exercising this. So how can we make sure that 5G and 6G really isn't a very visible construct anymore? How can we make it such that everybody, any developer around the world can just make an API call to say, hey, I want this slice. I want this and that, right? So this is one of the open and exciting challenges we are facing over the next months and years to come. So this is just a very quick overview. I could spend probably hours just on this slide, but let's move on. And I just want to talk a little bit about 6G. We have seen that the 5G rates are really good for what we have today in the next years to come. But the future requires more, right? So the future requires more. And from our point of view, we kind of structure that into four big areas. This is really how we give all our research, our standards, work, our product development. So the first one is really all about these Internet of Sensor. It's the Internet of Skills, as I defined it when I was still at King's, a very massive multi-sensory merchant reality experience. So really, this metaverse experience we just talked about. We also want to empower machines, right? So this is all about connected intelligence machines. And you can imagine they require very, very low latency, very high data rate, more and more machines coming online, very high security related. And this is where 6G really kicks in very, very, very strongly. And then we need this programmable world, right? The ability to not only ingest data, but actually downstream it again, you know, program actuators, mems, you know, devices change our world, right? According to what we have measured in the first two boxes there. And last but not least, we really made the sustainability angle, the core mantra of Eric's, really make sure that whatever we do is energy efficient, that's sustainable, is transparent, and really makes sense from an overall societal point of view. So these are our focus areas. And you know, I thought to talk to you for a little bit about the roadmap now, how we think we can get there, how can we address, how can we really, you know, make sure we get to these four topics I talked about. So what we had in 5G are these three areas, right? Defined by the Free2BP and ITU, Etsy, NGMN, everybody talked about, you know, 5G about these three telco use cases. It was about 10 years ago, my God, time is flying. 10 years ago we talked about enhanced mobile broadband. So this is your mobile phone, just a little bit, you know, your 4G experience, just really 10 times better. We talked about massive machine type communications, which is basically the IoT stuff we had already in 4G, but better at scale, basically going from, you know, hundreds of thousands of sensors we can connect now to millions, tens of millions of sensors. And then the new box here was this ultra reliable low latency comms box, right? So very low latency stuff. You know, again, I call it tactile internet, Free2BP called it the ultra reliable low latency comms. I call that, you know, for me it wasn't enabled for the internet of skills. The message here is, you know, URLC is all about very low latency, very high reliability. You need your packets with a 10 million sequence and you can't lose any of these packets, right? So we made sure 5G can do that, very different use cases, yet one platform able to do that. That's really fascinating, right? Now, 5G advanced, now the next releases are coming in Free2BP and we're trying to understand how can we make this better, right? So these three boxes, so we make these, the triangle a little bit larger, but 6G will be fundamentally bigger, right? Will be different, will be envelope requirements, which goes from immersive comms, you know, critical service, spatial temporal understanding, you know, flapping of computer and AI, you know, it's a very interesting construct really coming there with 6G early days. We still don't know yet exactly how we're going to do it, but I think we get a good idea, you know, what we're going to do and what we need to achieve at the end of that 6G design roadmap. And then how does that roadmap look like? So these are projections, we don't know exactly, right? So how things will really kick off, but typically, and we do this successfully now for many generations, we do basic research. So probably the 6G basic research will, you know, started in 2017, probably the earliest one was in Finland, Mati with a 6G center in Ulu, and the world has now really picked up that, you know, there's no country, no university, no research center, which doesn't look into this very fundamental 6G research. And that 6G research will probably come to its conclusions largely with the fundamental techniques in 2023. And now already, you know, alliances and industry buddies have taken over, the ITU is looking at the requirements, right? Very typical process for the ITU to say, you know, for a telco generation to be called 5G or now 6G, it needs to have these type of requirements. So therefore the ITU will kick in, we'll start to look into spectrum. So there's a lot of stuff which needs to be prepared. And this is then when we start around 2024, you know, 2025, we start with the 6G tech standards, specifically 3GPP works and releases, and 3GPP, we don't talk about generations, we talk about releases. So it released, you know, 19, you know, we'll have, you know, good 6G content, hopefully already in there. Let's see how this pans out really in the future to come. And then in the end, it will go commercial at the end of this decade. And then, you know, we'll go to 7G. You heard, you know, already talking about this. So, you know, 7G will come. And maybe at some point, we'll stop talking about Gs. We had just had a really fascinating panel, you know, with Marielle from MIT, Oobli and Ravi. Just look it up or contact me. That panel was really about the future of the generations. And we're having these discussions with every generation, but it's getting more interesting by the decade, I have to say. Right. So, and what do we really need to do to get 6G right? And what is really 6G? Well, you know, I could spend another one or two hours to talk about this. And in fact, we do have presentations about 6G, just about 6G. But since I wanted to give you the wider envelope of why we do this 6G, how does it sit with the devices and the diverse, you know, let's just have maybe one or two slides on this. So, from a spectrum point of view, and I'm pushing pulling this out, this slide is because it's really the bread and butter of the ITU and later it will be part of World Radio Conference discussions in 2023 and really influences regulators all around the world. And I'm sitting on the Spectrum Advisory Board of OFCOM, which is the UK regulator. And really what we're looking at here, well, you know, we do have prime spectrum, I really have to say this. So, you know, before we get carried away is saying, let's go to 100 gigs and terahertz and all that, you know, the prime spectrum 80%, and it's an estimate, my personal estimate, 80% of the economic value, you know, of the telco ecosystem is actually carried in these mid-bands. Okay. And these are the, you know, this is not below gig, but anything between 1G to 6G is what we're talking about in 5G. But that mid-band now, it might be stretched a little bit further for 6G around, you know, 7 to 24 gigs. We're talking 12 gig, 15 gigahertz now, frequencies. And there's quite a bit of spectrum. Of course, some of that is being used by satellite, by government. So, the ITU will have a lot of headache of actually sorting out on global scale, which are the bands within this green, you know, green band here, which could be used for 6G. Once these have been identified, everybody goes to the world radio conference, negotiates very hard, and then, you know, the different regulators around the world need to implement them. So, you can see that the, this green spectrum of the 7 to 24 gig is strictly speaking not millimeter wave yet, okay, millimeter wave, if you look at really when, when there's a millimeter of a wave life kick in, it would be around 33 gigahertz. So in fact, the millimeter wave systems in 5G are also not millimeter waves. So I think maybe somebody will realize at some point, but anyway, so I think, you know, that middle green spectrum is super prime. Why is it prime? Great propagation characteristics, right? It starts to have radar capabilities. So I'll see in the next slide, we need that. It starts to, it is very good with our device ecosystem, because you need to manufacture power amplifiers, right? So it is a very different story to a power amplifier at 10 gigahertz compared to one terahertz. Then we need to design sampling chips, right? So we don't know yet how to sample beyond one bit sampling in the terahertz range, right? So therefore, loads of challenges up there. We have a lot of bandwidth. It's very easy, but from a device and industrial ecosystem, loads of research challenges here. So therefore, I think the ITU needs to get that mid band, right? And we need to start looking at the higher bands. So I'm not saying we shouldn't do that, right? So we need to look at this, try to understand the needs. What can we do up there? What are the exciting applications up there? And they are, they really are. And if I look at this, one which really jumps out, and I think that will be a very fundamental feature of 6Gs, that joint sensing and communications. And a lot of people have worked on this already for quite a while, and not least Ian actually, is in the call here. We had information theorists looking at this, you know, from a modulation point of view, from a practical point of view, what's, well, what's the idea? The idea is, you know, every time I'm sending a radio signal from my mobile phone, right? So I'm making a phone call here with my, with my phone, and it's emitting radio signals. Now, what we're trying to do is to get some of these radio signals to my base station, which is somewhere on the roof. So I can actually call to my friends and, you know, to my family. But some of these waves actually get reflected, the majority of these waves get reflected in the very room I'm sitting in. And we are discarding them currently. But what about using them? What about using these reflected waves and starting to understand what is my special environment? What is my 3D environment here in real time, right? And of course, the higher I go in the carrier frequency, the shorter the wavelength and the better the resolution. So maybe, you know, at the typical two gigahertz, which is some 30, you know, some, some, some 10 centimeters, 12 centimeters wavelength, I can resolve objects which are large. So probably the chair here, the table, as I move up now into the higher frequencies, you know, wavelength gets shorter, I'm able now suddenly to resolve this cap, I'm able to resolve my glasses, right? So, and suddenly get a 3D picture. And why is that important? Well, they're made of us, right? So we just talked about this holographic capabilities, because the other side whom you're talking to, the people you're engaging with, they would like to get a 360 real time picture of where you are, what you're doing, how do you take, do you smile, do you move your hands, you know, what are you up to in general in the environment, right? So and therefore, this is where this joint sensing and comms comes in and could be a very, very powerful, you know, kind of asset in our 6G toolbox. Now, what does that then look like? So if we were to implement this, you know, coming to my last slide, say, if we were to implement that, you know, this is how we see that from Ericsson's world and bring it all together. So we do have a physical world, it's providing a lot of sensing data into our digital world, we're doing a lot of real time processing, which I just explained, and then we can act on that because we have sensors, we have actuators, we have robots, we have drones. So suddenly we get this loop between the digital and the physical world and we get this cyber physical continuum, and we are able to program these worlds, right? So we literally get programmable worlds based on this cyber physical continuum. So we are getting this, 6G probably will be the first baby steps in making this happen. There's, you know, there's just a position of sensing action and really augmenting the experiences, right? So that's the world we're looking at. You know, it's on one hand, of course, it is super scary on the other hand, it is very, very exciting, this future world to come. I want to conclude, you know, with a few questions and actually two of these questions address a little bit of dark side and then I like to bring this out because it's always a difficult conversation and it's a conversation we should rather have early on than very late in the game. We need to be honest with each other and I think we as engineers have responsibilities, ethical responsibilities to get things right. So the first question I'm posing to you as a community is, you know, are we approaching AI singularity? Now, singularity has been coined in 2003 by our colleagues in Oxford, philosophers, really saying that the moment we design machines, we design artificial intelligence, which is able to learn quicker than we can teach it, we will have singularity because their aggregate knowledge will actually evolve exponentially and rather linearly like it happens with humanity or will be super exponential rather than exponential as we have with humanity, right? And the big question I'm asking now with the emergence of, you know, of powerful devices of our 5G6G networks of AI, you know, are we approaching this singularity? Now, I would like you to understand why I think that we need to pay attention here. So today we're using AI quite frequently across a lot of digital services, right? So we're doing this already. There's nothing new there. But what we have been doing over the last years is really to design new accelerator infrastructure, right? And I haven't talked about this today at all, but it's out there, it's coming, it's coming fast and furious. We've come up with new storage and new compute parameters. So we talk about neuromorphic computing, extraordinary low energy, you know, you wouldn't believe it. Multiplication, which is a very energy intensive operation in a traditional, you know, digital device in a neuromorphic device is zero joules, like zero, right? It doesn't cost you any energy. So suddenly we're in a world where the energy consumption of doing these computes is getting to the, you know, within, probably not yet within the order of magnitude of our human brain, but you know, we are on that trajectory. Then we got quantum. Quantum can do a lot of stuff which before we couldn't do with traditional computers, we got new networks, right? You put it all together and suddenly my AI framework can do things which are, you know, so much more powerful. Now you, and I call this first loop here, the digital service loop. Now the emergence of the metaverse allows us to build these digital twins, these worlds which resemble very much our real world down to the last physics component, right? And that is for me that loop number two. So we see now the ability to design, let's say, new airplanes, new devices, you know, new GPU fabric, Nvidia actually had shown that the other day, you know, they're using AI to design new stuff and they can simulate that within their metaverse, you know, within their physical, a digital representation of the physical world at an accelerated rate. You know, they don't have to do the experiment going to the lab in the morning and doing the experiments. No, they can run it and parallel computing for structures essentially, you know, emulating a million lab hours within a few seconds. So suddenly, you know, we are getting the ability to do that coupled in haptic devices to this very physical compute. And suddenly you end up in a programmable world where maybe loop three enables essentially machines to do things we don't want them to do. Okay. We really need to pay attention here with developing these applications in the green boxes along with the very powerful AI frameworks, along with the accelerated computer infrastructure. You know, are we building a world where we can lose control very quickly? So we need to look at this from a regulatory point of view, from an ethics point of view, and a lot of other points. So I'll leave that for you just to think about it. My second question is, you know, can we finally solve privacy? Okay, so everybody geeked out a little bit when Facebook announced that they're going, you know, going to rebrand to Meta and they're going to work on this new metaverse concept, et cetera. And the reason is, is really because once we are in this world, you know, we have a new attention span. New attention span means new advertising opportunities, new ways really to infringe our privacy. You know, machines will understand algorithms understand, there's even better than what they know already. So, you know, there's a great article in the Washington Post here. Can this actually be solved? How do we solve that? Do we still need to do this from a regulatory point of view? Can we trust the terms and conditions of the companies or should we do something more as engineers? And you know, I've been working on this notion of privacy by engineering design, which I really believe in. And I think we need to do more and specifically, you know, in this metaverse world where suddenly, you know, things aren't regulated. Who's going to take care of our children in there? Who's going to take care of haptic engagements you don't want to have? You know, so this whole privacy issue is very strong. And even the entire ethics issue, right? So, and then I just started to work with with a scholar here at Stanford University on ethics in the metaverse. I think these are very, very big issues we need to address early on. And we do have the responsibility. So, people, you know, our children in 2030 don't turn around and say, hey, hey, dad, hey, mom, what were you doing in 2022? Right? Why didn't you get that right? So, we want to get this right. So, my last one is reading, it's not a serious question. I really enticed you to go to a block we wrote with my fantastic colleagues here, Yasha, Miral and Eric. You know, we wrote a block really working on this concept of the metaverse and that, you know, what has done 5G? Where can we chime in 6G? A bit of a longer deep dive on what I presented to you today. But feel free to check it out, read it through and contact me for any comments and ideas. And of course, I'm always looking for exciting co-authors to write maybe other thought leadership pieces in this space. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to leave you and I'm open for questions and discussions and I give back the floor to Ian. Thank you. Thanks a lot, Misha. Excellent talk. It's really very visionary and hope we all will be successful, especially you and Erickson, of course. That's why they hired you there, right? So, are there any questions from the audience? Please type your questions. Yeah, Ian, actually you can find them in the Q&A channel. Yeah, I'm in the chat room here. You can pick the ones that you want to ask. Thanks. Yeah, I was, I mean, still early morning here in Las Vegas. So, okay, so there are many questions, by the way, Misha. So, the first question comes from Ruben Stephen. What is the key differentiator of the metaverse from the real world? The real world also has a social element and narrative. Or rather, why would someone spend time on the metaverse instead of the real world? Is it because of the ease of connectivity? Bunch of questions, but they're all the same direction, right? Yeah, that's a great, Ruben, that's a great question. We actually don't have the answer to this, to be honest. Clearly, being in the metaverse, let's assume this is a augmented digital social construct that allows us to do things we can't do in the real world, right? So, literally, you can think of a metaverse where gravity isn't one G as we have it here, it's something else. And maybe you have a non-euclidean geometry, you know, you can just be very creative. And maybe that speaks more to our creative mind rather than to our engineering mind, right? So, physics, the universe has given us the physical world as we know it now. And we are now at the point where we can start simulating new worlds to understand what else is possible. And of course, the the current metaverses we see are very much a reflection of the real world we have. And therefore, people currently use it more in a traditional way, I have to say, but the opportunities are very large. And I think, you know, people like that social construct, specifically in the given the pandemic, people couldn't see each other for a long time. My daughter couldn't be with her friends now because we moved to Silicon Valley. So, therefore, we will see, I think, more and more people jumping on this. Will this be a construct which will be consuming 24-7? I'm not sure. And, you know, maybe we don't want that, right? So, the jury is still open. But at least for something for entertainment, for being with friends, you can't be really physically, you know, doing new things, simulating new things, designing new devices, new worlds. I think that is definitely a very interesting proposition. Yeah. Michel, there is an excellent feedback by many people. They loved your talk. They are thanking you for the inspiring speech. So, I have to share that, at least like 10 people wrote very nice feelings about you. That's nice. So, there is this fellow, our fellow, I don't know, Isatou Sar. Let me hear so many questions, by the way. So, I have to regarding holographic display. Can you please comment on the difficult trade-offs between field of view and i-box size? So, Isatou, I see your questions here. They're all great. I'm not able to answer all of them, I have to say, because I'm not an expert on this, but specifically on this one, you know, I can't really tell you the trade-off, but what I can tell you what we've done from a cons point of view, we are able now to basically predict your field of view. Okay. And in my opinion, I think the first one to really pioneer this kind of meaningfully was Yasha, sorry, was Yansha from Kings College London. She worked on AI. So, the AI is essentially taking your eye risk, your eye movement, and is able to predict in real time where you're going to look next most likely. And that immediately allowed us, rather than projecting or streaming a 180 or 360 field of view, we're able to actually narrow it down to something much narrower. So, 120, whatever, I don't know the exact value, but it was good enough to give the impression you're fully immersive, a bit like I do now. If you guys now look straight ahead, you see something very sharp, maybe within, you know, 90 degrees, and the rest is quite blurred. So, this is the type of ability we're able to do. So, we're doing this from a cons point of view, and I hope that will help with some of the device manufacturing side. There is another question by Saber Kamushi. Thanks for your inspiring presentation. Quantum computing. By the way, I have to say my one words before I ask you the question. I mean, since at least 30, 25 years, we talk about quantum computing and communications, we always say up and coming, up and coming, and it's not coming, right? So, it's really, we are still very behind quantum area, but anyway, I hope someday we'll be successful. So, the question of Saber is, quantum computing, which can be a million times faster than traditional computing, so IPFS and other infrastructure that Web 3.0 is running on it will be vulnerable. What do you think about it? Yeah, yeah, it's a great point, Saber. And, you know, let's assume, you know, let's assume that quantum computing will happen one day. Okay, let's see. Then you're absolutely right. So, you know, quantum computing is actually on a million times faster. They're actually a million times slower than our computers, but they're probably a trillion on exponential time more efficient, right? So, they're effective, sorry, they're not very efficient, but very effective. So, they can solve NP complete problems to something which is exponentially hard to crack in linear time. And of course, our crypto, you know, our ciphers are such a construct. So, you're absolutely right. The current blockchain is protected by ciphers, which can be cracked in linear time by quantum computers, someone in the future. So, therefore, you're right, they're vulnerable. So, we have started to look at this post-quantum future. And especially when I was still at King's, you know, I looked at two or three families of codes which can live in this world. So, either, you know, blockchains in the future need to migrate to a quantum key distribution system, which I'm not sure how we're going to do it in a distributed setting. So, it's actually a very interesting question to ask here. The second one is lattice codes, and then there was another family. And actually NIST, the National Institute of Science and Technology in the United States, is about to publish their recommendation, what type of ciphers should be used to be quantum resistant in the future? Once that recommendation is out, I would hope that the likes of Ethereum will do another migration to these quantum-resistance codes. But we need to keep an eye on that. So, thank you. There is another question, but I'm not sure that the time will be allowing you to answer this, because it's an open question. Dimitrios Tirovalos is asking, you mentioned security through engineering towards the end of your talk. Could you elaborate on that a little further? If it's too long, Misha, you can take it offline if you prefer, but if you want to answer it, please go ahead. Yeah, I could just say it wasn't actually a security by engineering design, it was privacy by engineering design, right? So, very quickly, you know, if you look at a security by engineering design, we're using ciphers to protect our infrastructure. Think of an equivalent of privacy by engineering design. How can we do that? Okay, and if you want to know what I think, how we do it, just get in touch with me, Dimitrios. Good question. Yeah, and Albert Lisko is a friend of mine from South Africa, by the way. Albert is asking, spectrum requirements for 6G are concerning as they give impression that 6G will need all that spectrum. And consider that the seller has a lot of spectrum and is unable to use most of the spectrum. It has efficiently, except for a few hotspots, the 6G as a seller technology really need more spectrum. And, you know, anyhow, you should answer that because it should not be rather considered Wi-Fi, whatever, you know, BE or whatever such in or such instead for spectrum, especially the metaverse is likely to be indoors for the first several years. That's a great point. Otherwise, perhaps should not spectrum be shared as a default method of assignment rather than assigning it to 6G specifically. Yeah, so Albert, I hope you're well. So, you know, it's a great question. And, you know, sitting on the spectrum board of OFCOM, we have, of course, debating occasionally these type of questions. How do you do this split and how do you handle the spectrum options in the future? There's a great study by the GSMA, which looks really where the biggest value is created. And currently, you know, the verdict is that, you know, license spectrum creates the biggest value. And this is because the, you can assign service level agreements, right? So with Wi-Fi and licensing spectrum, you can't do it simply by the virtue of the legal construct. Having said this, you know, I mean, Wi-Fi will not disappear. It will always be there. There's always the quick systems. And we are actually a very symbiotic ecosystem right now, a lot of offloading happening. Wi-Fi currently doesn't have a limit in terms of, you know, the spectrum Wi-Fi 6N7 has, 6N7, Wi-Fi 7, is enough to power probably most of that, but in a very kind of local environment. The beauty of the cellular technologies is, it's a global, it's a national, it's a wide area construct, but also global construct, right? So, in Wi-Fi, you can't actually, you know, go somewhere else and easily get access. You need the code, you type it in, et cetera, whereas, you know, you can buy today your mobile phone in the United States with a SIM card and Buenos Aires, you know, and call your friends in Australia who got their phone somewhere else. Therefore, you know, this type of thing only works with that standardized ecosystem. So therefore, I think, let's look symbiotic of what's the future. Let's see who has the bottlenecks and let's make sure we get the maximum value out of this. And these are open questions. Okay. And I think there's one more question by Romeo Giuliano. I think he's in Roma. Thank you, Misha. I believe that the future world virtual physical meta should be trusted, but the blockchain will have a focal point or other tools can be used, even if not distributed. It's only one single question, meaning like all these long sentences. Okay. Blockchain will have a focal point or other tools can be used, even if it's not used. Yeah. I mean, indeed, Romeo, hi, by the way, so the is a great question because people really think that blockchain will solve it all, but actually it is a technology which enables their trust in the provenance. So we need to get it right still, and probably we need to have auditing mechanisms built in, and that needs somehow to be regulated. So I think there needs to be a strong regulatory angle there. And currently blockchain is something where regulators, maybe the financial contact authority, so the finance guys start to look into this and started to regulate this a little bit. But I think from a wider ecosystem, when you start looking at that as well, how can we use blockchain as a technical construct to help us with the trust issue? Because one and the other are not necessarily the same. So you're raising a really great point. And I think this could be a future work item. Thank you. You know, before I close the Q&A session, I want to point out that that's the biggest challenge, in my opinion, and one of the biggest challenges is the latency and the data rate problem, right? I mean, you mentioned that. And, you know, today's internet will, even I'm talking about wired, are far from satisfying those requirements. And then we will also go towards, you know, like your company, like to wireless and mobile, that would be much more challenging. Do you think that the next 10 years, we may somewhat succeed to meet those requirements in terms of delay, like latency, as well as throughput? Yeah, so you asked me to look into crystal ball. Actually, it's quite ironic that you always look into crystal ball. Let me try to answer that. I think it's all possible. So I mean, the data rate problem, in my opinion, is really just a scale problem, right? So either you put more base stations or you make the base stations bigger, so you get more memory, some more spatial channels, and or you get more spectrum, right? So I think we can solve that in one way or another. It's just an investment question. The latency is a physics problem. And I've always been arguing, ever since, you know, I started working on this internet of skills of mine, you know, where I have this vision that you're able to transmit skills for the internet. For such an internet to succeed, we need global low latency. If you currently look at the low latency, I mean, pitch takes, this is local, right? So it's a manufacturing hall, it's maybe over 100 kilometers to the next edge cloud. But what if I want to have a 10 millisecond link from San Francisco to Buenos Aires or to London or, you know, wherever you guys are, and then physics comes in, speed of light, we can't cheat it, okay? And this is where we need to start coming up with constructs, which allow us to give the perception of low latency. So therefore, my plea to the community is to move away from the very physical kind of working on low latency to also start looking on the perception of low latency and how this can be solved. And I leave that maybe as an opening, kind of as a closing remark to my webinar keynote tonight. I just realized that it's really interesting because Tarek Tadev from, I think he's in over in Finland. He thought about the same thing. I just saw it and I have to read this so that he will not think that I stole his question absolutely not please. So Tarek was saying about when metaverse becomes deployed at a large scale, having most of the functions offloaded, the transport network will become a bottleneck in terms of both bandwidth and latency. I mean, that's what I mentioned. Current IP protocols will fail in handling such, I mean, it looks like we had a telepathy from near there. Large scale deployment of bandwidth, hunger and latency sensitive metaverse apps. What future do you see for IP? Do we need a new IP? In fact, you mentioned, you answered that, but maybe I should elaborate on that. There is this new IP issue going on, you know, Huawei folks are really pushing for it. What do you think about it? Do you have some opinion or shall we cut it off now? I was, you know, 10 years ago, as you know, we have been trying to come up with a new IP construct for decades now. So 10 years ago, I was very excited about this, you know, then I kind of founded and co-founded a few companies and I became very realistic on what really works and doesn't. And IP clearly is a very simple construct. It has a big ecosystem attached to this. And as long as your machine speaks IP, we somehow can solve, you know, that communication challenge. And the, you know, all the extras we bound in were always patchwork and ITF clearly. So it's not ideal, but at least it works, right? My only, you know, I think as humans, will we come up with a solution which will be post IP? You know, I don't have a lot of faith in this, to be honest, but I have faith in something else and Tarik, you know, I have faith in AI possibly designing a new transport protocol, which we haven't even thought about, right? So industry is using this already. So I was at the keynote of NVIDIA CEO the other day, or CTO, and he talked about how AI designed a new GPU fabric. And he said, as human engineers, we never came up with this idea. And we looked at it and we thought, this is rubbish, this is impossible. It turned out to be a Pareto optimum design and this type of construct. So the moment AI can design new transport protocols, and we can get this implemented across, you know, machines automatically, this is the future. And I call this actually self synthesizing network. So Etsy, and I've seen Davies on the call as well, you know, Etsy has run a feature article in October last year about these self synthesizing networks. And this is where I really see the future. Maybe this will help that challenge. Thanks a lot, Michel. Excellent, really. A lot of people were happy with the webinar. Really, I'm extremely appreciative to you and also especially for your time. And I close the Q&A session and I ask Alessia to take over and ask you a bunch of personal questions. So good luck. Thanks a lot again. We'll see you. Thank you so much, Ian. Thank you for moderating this session. And thank you, Professor Daller, for this very interesting talk. So now we can move to the wisdom corner, live life lessons. So which is based upon the idea to give a unique and special angle to this new webinar series, adding a personal touch. So successful researchers, like you today, will guide students and young scholars, researchers in the field of current IZT research. And they will also share some pills always done, pretty sure. And impactful life lessons. So life, we all know it's an incredible journey of discovery and learning. And success is not because we never fail. Success is because we never give up. You will probably say, nothing can stop you, citing one of your beautiful albums that I'm enjoying these days, actually, that I discovered. Congratulations. Many of you might know that Professor Daller is also a very talented composer and pianist. So I would like to move to my first question. Which is your hard-earned life lessons or failure that you would like to share with us that people attending the webinar today might find useful? It's a good question. I was thinking about this for quite a while. And I think you know what I realized very early on in my life. And I'm really looking at the young scientists on the call who might be watching this video. So that transition from being a very kind of green young scientist engineer into a kind of a scalable, very mature and hopefully successful scientist. And I had a one pivotal point. And that pivot point is when I realized that really collaboration is really all what matters in our community. And a lot goes with that term collaborate and be open. It is be kind, try to support your colleagues, etc. But really that in the early days of my PhD, for instance, I invented or probably co-invented this notion of a distributed MIMO array. The idea of having several antennas and distributed mobile phones. And then we can mimic this MIMO link giving us a lot of capacity. And I couldn't publish about it because we patented that with Kings and they set me back a bit. So I became quite protective of that area. And you know, I felt it wasn't going anywhere. So you know, there's this very young unknown guy sitting in London somewhere in a dark office has come up with an idea which I still think is brilliant and really has actually caught up. And I realized, you know, the only way of really moving the needle here is and that's really what you want to do. You want to move the needle is to really collaborate, really come together with people. And that means share stuff. Even though you think, you know, others could maybe take it or steal it or do something else or whatever, you know, my experience is so fine. Everybody who's on the call who has been contacting me for things, knows I'm sharing without any problems, right? Of course, now being part of the corporate, you'd be more careful with that. But generally, I remember the days when Roberto Bergdorne, one of our friends from Italy, you know, contact me like, Misha, can I have your muddle up code, you know, for your distributed MIMO simulations? I'll say, yeah, here you go. And then I still have that email. He was in complete shock, right? So because it never happened to him that somebody shared the code. And so I put it online and we started sharing, you know, this open source type of spirit is a very, very powerful from the science point of view. And, you know, just to cite a historic event here, you may think that Newton, you know, Leibniz Newton had invented calculus, right? And actually, calculus is really bootstrap humanity. Everything we do today, the fact that we can speak with each other, I say today, and people can listen to this because, you know, calculus has been invented, other things as well in the way. But this was really the kind of the starting point. Turns out, the Greeks had invented calculus 2000 years earlier. Now, they have two precepts on this. And rather than publishing this, they have actually hidden this in some temple. So therefore, that knowledge was lost. Imagine if they had shared that knowledge widely, we would be now in an equivalent year of what would it be like 2000 years ago, we would be in the year 4022. Okay? So therefore, share knowledge, you know, share knowledge and the whole envelope, be kind to your colleagues, help them help your younger colleagues. You know, they're all going up this ladder, etc. I want to build a career making one in a contribution. So maybe this was my biggest pivotal point where I've clearly done mistakes before. I learned from that. And that has really changed my scientific career and my life. Wow. Thank you. Second question, which strengths and capabilities do you think students, young researchers should be most focused on developing and how should they plan to do that on accomplishing this? I think the most important thing we can learn today is how to learn. Okay? So it seems a bit counterintuitive. But if you look how we have evolved, you know, the amount of new stuff coming our way is increasing now at exponential pace. Okay? By the time we stop talking, something new has been invented already. Okay? Therefore, the pace of innovation, because we have this fully networked construct called the internet, is now exponential, if not super exponential, right? And therefore, you know, nailing down on a very specific skill or domain in the traditional sense, like, you know, I learned to play the piano, you maybe learn something in engineering, you know, these type of things, they are great for a base. So get your basis right. But actually, the biggest skill we need to learn is how do we learn? How do we re-skill? Because we will be needing to re-skill many, many times, right? And that is a skill which I think comes to short. It comes to short at schools. It comes to short in universities. It even comes to short in dinner conversations of families, right? So I try to tell my daughters, you know, really learn, work out a very good working methodology on how you learn things, because this will really enable you to become, you know, something along the way where you always need to pivot slightly. So I'm not saying you need to go from taxi driver to quantum, quantum computer developer, but you know, we are clearly pivoting and those who have succeeded really over the last decades are the ones who have been able to re-skill at a very, very high level. So that would be, that would be my answer if that makes sense to you. Definitely. Very clear. And in which field specifically and which topics would you recommend students to study nowadays? Also taking into consideration your own cross-disciplinary research and innovation in technology, sciences, arts. Yeah. So the, I think from topics which will stay for a while is, you know, the engineering computing as quantum. It's been something which actually, you know, is kind of a holy grail mainly from a physics community and now starting to become a bit more mainstream. And becoming mainstream, it means we can now build things and we can use it. And suddenly also physicists are developing new quantum computer languages, right? So we will have whatever, Python for quantum or C++ for quantum. So suddenly we have abstracted something extraordinary complex into something which we know already how to deal with. So therefore if a computer scientist is on the call, try to understand quantum and, you know, learn these emerging quantum program languages and the engineer is equal, you should do that. But from a more wide construct, you know, I think what would be quite interesting to look at is, you know, the ability to bind in a very 360 picture, right? So I think the big challenges of this 21st century will not be solved in a very siloed way. They will, as you have said, I'll say totally correctly, be a horizontal challenge, right? There will be, you know, there will be electrical engineers working with mechanical engineers with chemical engineers, maybe material scientists, computer scientists, you know, physicists, mathematicians, artists, right? So policymakers, we need, we all need to learn their language. So it's a, it's a linguistic problem really, their language, their way of thinking. And it may not be something you want to spend a huge amount of time on, but you may want to really pay attention to workshops or to events where you go to, in fields which are not your fields, try to learn them. You know, and I, for instance, organized in London, you know, workshops, a series of workshops in the National Theater, right, together with the young Vic. And I brought artists together and I brought engineers together. And the first day was a disaster. You know, it was a real disaster. I guess they just couldn't, you know, couldn't make ends meet. But we kind of aligned languages, we aligned expectations. And we suddenly saw, we saw this power really of bringing together these two communities where I personally have always seen the, you know, the tech community to be very innovative, but not very creative. And the arts community very creative, but not very innovative, right? So bring them together. Suddenly we had this big bang moment and that, you know, on day two and three of the workshop, we did magic and we need more of that. We need more of that renaissance type of magic. Yeah, wonderful. I fully agree. Okay. Tell us one of the most tangible contributions that you have made in your career that had a direct impact on your life, professional, personal life, and on others life that you're most proud of. Which one do I pick now? So maybe the one which is really the epiphany of Adol, kind of the convergence of, you know, my work for decades was that world's first 5G piano concert I did with my, with my daughter. Okay. And it had everything you can imagine. Okay. Everything. It had, it had cutting edge technology. It had history. It had emotions. And it was, it was a night where when I was playing the piano, I actually, you know, I struggled not to cry. Okay. It was so emotional. So what happened is, is over the years we had developed this 5G technology design with Ericsson, presuming that's why I'm here actually. Very little artsy, very high bandwidth. And with my fantastic team at Kings, you know, we were thinking how do we bring this to live? And I worked a lot with an artist. In fact, I hired an artist, Ali Hosseini, fantastic person, wonderful person. And he said, look, Misha, we need to bring this really to live for a very personal experience. You know, you fly to Berlin and play the piano there. We're going to connect you live real time, low latency, high bandwidth to your daughter here. I didn't want to fly actually, because, you know, I wanted to be with all the politicians in London and the big opening and all this. He said, no, no, I'm sure you have to go. He was absolutely right. So that's why I'm saying, you know, he advised me as an artist saying where this emotional thing comes in. So I flew to London and I was playing the piano under the Brandenburg tour. My daughter, Noam, was in the Guild Hall. And the Guild Hall is 2000 years old. And it is actually London's and UK's very first entertainment venue. The Romans brought it 2000 years ago. As you know, the Romans Italians know how to party and they brought this to the UK. And we thought, let's take this very historic place, put in very modern technology, connected in real time. And, you know, I have to say really cute as to my tea. We made it happen. And low latency, very first time on this commodity technology that happened. And Noam was nervous. I was nervous. But we got this very immersive, the first time in my life, I experienced immersive comms. We had very low latency codec, very low latency networks. She was with me. She was holographically projected, but she was with me. This emotional bond was built in it. That has really shaped, I think, a lot of thinking in the community has really been kind of the leading way, you know, for my piano career, my composition career, the music career. Noam, by the way, sang with Madonna on two songs on their last album, Madam X, so she's on there. So she's an accomplishing as well. So we brought it all together, the family story. And that is the moment I'm very, very proud of. Wonderful. Actually, I watched it. I recommend anyone attending this webinar to watch it. It's on YouTube. And it was extremely emotional. I must say, but the synchronicity was just amazing. It was really amazing. And you really showed the world. I heard that already, the power of 5G. And I was wondering, is this what an example of what you call giving technology a soul? I'm very, very much intrigued by this concept that I heard you. You said it in some interviews. Yeah, I love it, you know, I love it because I think we need to do more of that as engineers and computer scientists, you know, more often than not. We like to just think about whoever listens in, you know, your typical day is probably either now at home or before the pandemic or now again, you would come to the office, you would go into your office, you would close the door and just do a bit of coding and designing things, building things, et cetera. So, you know, and I thought, you know, being in London back then, you know, we're not only good in tech, but we're good in a lot of different societal things in the UK in London, you know, the health or arts, transport and all these things. And I thought, you know, my folks in my centre as a director back then, you know, they should see more than just boxes and cables and millions of lines of codes. They should understand what is that technology for? They need to be able to speak these stories around these technologies, you know, and that storytelling is the most powerful way for us to really convey messages and convince people. We've been using that for millions of years and it's a narrative which really has stuck. You know, a lot of things have died or have been superseded, but storytelling has actually survived. So, therefore, you know, bring that storytelling into technology was really for me to give that technology some soul, right? Some life, some, you know, some aura. And that's really what I wanted to do. And I think we succeeded in doing that. You know, I created also as a side result, people now with a lot of passion, not only for technology, but for the wider societal pictures. And I think we need more of that. Wonderful. Okay, last question, I promise. It's very enjoyable, this conversation. Is there a motto? And aphorism? I usually ask a book, a movie, a piece of art or music in your case that describes you best or you, your professional path that you would like to share with us. So, maybe I should cite then my, I think, first or second album, which is titled, Nothing Can Stop Me. So, or Nothing Can Stop You, actually, you know, that probably describes who you're best. But, you know, I'd like to, you know, I'd like, you know, I'd like to see myself a bit as a, you know, this Renaissance picture. And as I said many times before, you've heard me now really talk about this at great length. We need more of this, you know, that concept in the, you know, 200 years back that Renaissance movement was very powerful, has really been a quantum leap for humanity at large. And the magic of this was that, you know, physicists weren't only doing physics. And, you know, philosophers weren't only doing philosophy, we had people who could do a lot of things, right? So, as an example, you know, we had, it was a slightly different epoch, but good difference as one of our Germans leading authors, you know, he was a biologist, he was a scientist at the same time. You know, we had, we had really people at the Renaissance period, you know, with the Renaissance spirit. And of course, this has carried on, but over the years, we've started to structure things in a very siloed way, you know, school is very siloed, you do subjects very siloed, university is very siloed, you have to pick your degree, then you get a job which is very siloed. And then we are surprised if things don't really work out in the end for us as a human race, right? So, therefore, I think one thing I really would like to get across more in dinner conversations starts really there, okay, it really starts there, dinner conversations in schools, you know, in any universities, in companies with a regulator all around the world. Let's really start to think Renaissance, build these sandpit environments where people are very different backgrounds, can actually be together in a very safe place and invent new things, create new things, and really make society a better place. Oh, thanks. Sorry, I actually came to my mind that I know that you met many very successful people coming from very different domains, fields like from politics, academics, industry, sciences, even fashion. And I was wondering, talking to them, having conversation to them, what do you think they have in common? I wouldn't ask you which one inspired you most, but what do they have in common? What do you think they have in common? They actually have that in common. Now that is a great question you're asking, it's a really great question. I never thought about this, what they have in common, but I think they have exactly that Renaissance spirit in common, right? And I personally see the world, you know, when you're born, you're born in front of three canvases, okay? So the first canvas is the canvas of science. It is trying to understand what the universe has given to us, how it works. The canvas, we are trying to understand why is the canvas white? Why does it stand and not collapse? Why, if I paint on this, the color sticks, right? So this is understanding the past. That's canvas number two, one. The canvas number two is to understand the present or deal with the present. This is literally the canvas an artist would use to paint, right? Picasso, Dali, they would just use that to paint, create art, to deal with the present. And then any artist knows, you know, we're using it rather as a diary. I come home, I sit on the piano and I just improvise, you know, I don't think about the specific note having a specific meaning. And I don't believe in all the stuff we did at school where we're supposed to interpret books and music and all that, you know, it is really dealing with the present. So this is canvas number two. And canvas number three is really creating the future. And actually we as engineers and scientists are often in front of this canvas. It's black. It's like, you know, the wall behind me. It's just white in the, you know, we start things from scratch. We create the future, we create magic. So when you're born, you're born with these three pencils to basically paint on these three canvases. And then society tells us to throw away two can two pencils. Okay. And what I would love to have is this real world where we at least can keep two pencils, we can be artists and engineers, artists and physicists, or ideally all three together. So, and this is what all these three people had. And I can tell the person actually inspired me more is what I'm not sure who's the lead singer of massive attack part that is a wonderful personality, a great artist, you know, I worked with him quite a bit of the years in London. And, you know, he's not only a great musician, he's an artist, he's a painter, he's he thinks about politics, he thinks about policy, a really 360 Renaissance man of this, of this century. Wow, wonderful. Thank you so much for being so generous in sharing with us, your experience, your lessons learned. I was really, really enjoyable. Now I would like Ian to come back with us and to, to give some closing remarks. Ian, the floor is yours. Again, thanks, Alessia. And thanks, Michelle, for everything. I really enjoyed it. And I also heard the back from the audience. They also loved it. Really, thank you. And I personally wish you all the best with Erickson. And hopefully in five years we'll see you in South Africa or something. It's amazing, really, fantastic. It's not easy, you know, people do the same thing and same place. So I'm really, my hat's off to you, really, my hat is off to you. So fantastic. Thank you, guys. I officially invite Professor Dolar, Ian, to come with you to Acra for the IT Kaleidoscope Academic Conference on Extended Reality. And Ian will be our keynote. And I'm officially inviting you to join us at the Ghana India Kofi Anani Institute Center of Excellence in ICT that will be held in December this year. And where will it be? I would like to conclude with that. Yeah, I hope we will meet again, Michelle. So the COVID is almost gone. So I see here, Vegas, everybody is on top of each other. So I think the pandemic is gone, I hope. So thanks a lot again, Michelle. And I like to ask the audience, please submit your papers. Our journal is open access and free for authors, no page limits. And it's really for professional service. So we look forward to receiving your papers and also if you have any ideas for special issues like this extended reality or hologram, please let us know. We'll be glad to entertain your requests. And next time we'll meet on June the 1st. It's another very hot topic. It's called semantic communications, transmitting beyond bits. This is really the hottest topic. Everybody's writing papers on that, you know. This is like always these phases. Now it's semantic communication. In fact, you can use semantic also what Michelle was telling, you know, underneath of all these hologram and the extended reality, etc. And the speaker will be Xiqin Qin. She is really fantastic in this field. She wrote so many pioneering papers. She's with Queen Mary University in England, UK. So we look forward to listening to her. And so I think we'll close this webinar today, right? Yep. Again, enjoy your. Yes. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Bye bye. Thank you. Cheers. Bye bye.