 Welcome. It's another day. It's another episode of the non-profit show. We are so grateful that you're here for another episode of Nonprofit Power Week with Fundraising Academy at National University. And today I am so thrilled to have Hannah Berger with us. She is a fundraising academy trainer, and she's here to talk to us more about the cost-selling cycle, in particular phase three, the ask. But she's going to tell us it's really not that scary. So the ask, phase three is step seven and eight, and we'll get into that here in just a brief moment. We want to remind you, if we haven't met you yet, Julia Patrick is here. She is the CEO at the American Nonprofit Academy. Thanks to Julia, you created this phenomenal platform. It was almost like you had, gosh, I don't know, like ESP to have the foresight to create this back in March of 2020. And I'm so very honored to serve alongside day in and day out as the co-host. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. 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Again, thanks to our supporters. So pull out your phone right now. You can scan the QR and download the app. And just a couple of hours after our conversation, we're having now live with Hannah. You will get a notification that today's recording has been uploaded. We're also on streaming broadcast as well as podcast. So wherever you choose to consume your entertainment, chances are you're going to find us there. So I'm really excited, Hannah, to have you here. You've been on the show before, so you're not a new face, but I'm so glad to have you talking to us today about, you know, wrapping up the cost selling education model. So again, for those of you watching and listening, we have Hannah Berger, CFRE, Fundraising Academy Trainer with National University, and also President with the philanthropy coach. Welcome back, my friend. Thank you so much. It's so good to be here. Excited to have you. Hannah, we're excited to have you because in so many ways, this last phase is, I want to call it the fear phase. A lot of people are like, oh, you know. And so I think you're going to give us a different message. And so I'm really excited about that. And I know that you have a lot of experience and you can really understand why so many of us, when we go to do that ask, we fall into this probably more of a mental trap than anything else. So let's start back from Monday, if you will. Tell us what you like about the eight step cost selling cycle that Fundraising Academy trains on. Yeah, I watched Tony's episode on Monday, and we used to refer to this as the doughnut. But one of the students in a cohort early on referred to it as a lifesaver. And so we all run with that now because it really is. I love this framework because it breaks down the entire donor relationship from start to finish, even before you meet them, right? We start with our prospecting, identifying everything we need to know, making sure that we are going to spend our time investing in somebody who is aligned with our mission has capacity to make a gift, right? We take all of these steps. And what's different about the way we approach it at Fundraising Academy than some other institutions is that we want our fundraising professionals to spend the most amount of time getting to know the donor, right? So we're not an always be closing kind of culture. We're not day one, you're making an ask. We want to make sure that you know that your value is aligned, that you understand your perspective donors passions and interests, and that when you are finally ready to get to step seven, the ask, it's really just a natural progression of the relationship that you've been building, right? So I will usually teach Fundraising Academy cause selling cohorts. So we teach in a group model, right? Because it's incredible to have that sort of peer exposure and connection. And people are always like, I want to get to the ask, because I want to know what the magic is, right? She's going to teach me the sentence that I'm going to use. It's going to raise millions of dollars. And it's not that simple and it's not that scary, right? Because again, this is the natural conclusion to the conversations that we've already been having with our qualified prospects. So we want to go into the ask, assuming success. This is really just formalizing of the commitment, right? So it's I like to equate non-profit fundraising, not equate, but use the metaphor of marriage, right? Like you're not going to go on a first date and be like, and proposing, right? That would be crazy. You're going to take time, get to know the person, identify what they want out of life, right? And then you make the ask. Once you're absolutely certain that this is somebody you want to be connected with permanently. And that's what we want with our donor relationships. Once they're in the family, we want to keep them there, right? So reality TV, because I've certainly seen that, right? Absolutely, yeah. I think that's really, you know, when you put it that way, Hannah, it does make this my first word that comes to mind is natural, is that it makes it seem more natural. And I'm going to ask you this question before we get into it a lot deeper. It almost seems like you know what you're going to ask for. And dare I say the donor knows as well. Do you think that's fair? Absolutely. I mean, occasionally in my experience, a donor will surprise me with a larger gift than we had been discussing, right? We love that. And occasionally the conversation veers in a different direction or life happens and things change. And so then this ask conversation becomes, I don't like to think of it as a negotiation, but I like to think of it as a way-finding mission, where together between myself or the fundraising professional and the donor, you're figuring out how to make it work, how to be mutually beneficial for both parties, right? Absolutely. You know, I was just talking to a client the other day who said, we've been working on a capital campaign together. And he's a CEO of a medium-sized nonprofit here in Southern California. And he thought he hated fundraising, but now it's become so much fun. And he said, you know what's crazy is that this was my six-figure ask. And I've only had to ask for the specific dollar amount twice out of six meetings, because I go in to make the ask and they're already prepared to say yes, and they just want to kind of celebrate together. Wow. And I said, that's not by accident. That's our strategy, right? Because we've been using our cost-selling cycle steps. We've done the presentation. We've talked through objections before we even get to the formality of the ask. What a paradigm change, right? For someone to say, like, I hate fundraising or it stresses me out, and I know the three of us have heard a little bit of everything, right? Because one of the things I like to ask when I go into a boardroom or a strategic plan is, like, how do you like to rest for money, right? And people are like, no way. And then to hear him say, like, so much fun and the success, right? Like, the impact of that. I think switching that mindset, having this cycle, Julie and I have talked with Tony, like, gosh, we wish we had this 20 years ago, right? So, Hannah, how has this cycle changed your own career as a professional fundraiser and a CFRE? That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just a complete mindset shift, really. I used to get so incredibly nervous going into ask meetings. I mean, to really get myself riled up. I don't think that's true. And approaching it from this mentality of, like, we've had all of these conversations just in little pieces, right? I already know that they agree to the benefits that we've talked about. I know what program they're excited about. They've seen the budget for the initiative we're proposing. We've already done all the steps. This is really just a conversation to formalize our commitment, right? And when you approach it from that mindset, all you really need to do is make sure you're getting your, you know, specifics in place. So that means you're sitting across from your donor who is now your new friend, right? And you say, you know, I'm so thrilled we've had this time to get to know each other. We've agreed about the benefits that this new initiative program, whatever it is you're asking for, brings to our community. And today we want to ask you to make a commitment of $100,000, right? And it feels, I know it's like, oh, God, $100,000. But I now approach things, and I feel so confident when I'm making these asks because I'm using this cycle. One thing I want to mention that I always tell my students when you are making the ask, this is a sales 101, but it rings true in fundraising. You get the question out of your mouth and you get quiet. And then you, yes. Silence is golden, right? We want to make sure that the next person who speaks is the donor every time. That's it. It is sales. And I'll tell you why, because early in my career, I probably talked myself out of gifts because I was nervous, right? So I would ask and I'd go, well, you know, if that doesn't work, we could come up with another plan. Don't do it. Don't do it. Just get quiet, right? Yeah. That in and of itself, right, is like such a big piece. And I know that, Julia, we've talked about bringing board members to asks, you know? And if they are not comfortable with that silence, it really has to be, I think, driven home. Just what you said, Hannah, the goal is for the donor to take that next word. Right. You know, Hannah, I think it's something I've never heard anyone say. And I was, I'm so captivated by this and that you added the word celebration that by the time you get to this ask, then it's a celebration because it's the joyful aspect of being philanthropic, of making a change in your community as somebody who's a donor investor saying, this is what I believe. This is what my family believes. This is my, you know, my value system, all these things. And I love, talk about mindset shift that you've turned it into a cause for celebration. I think that's really a cool way to look at this. I mean, my personal belief and something that I strive to infuse in all of my teaching and my coaching with my clients is that professional fundraisers, we have this incredible responsibility and joyful opportunity to help people create greater meaning in their lives. Like that's really what it comes down to. In my mind, it's not nonprofit organizations desperately begging for cash. It's building community to change lives and give people who have worked really hard. And, you know, in theory, they've got a lot of capacity and money to share. We help them live richer, fuller lives where they feel more connected. It's awesome. I love, I think that talk about a mind shift because when you go before your donor investor with that, that sense, it's, I think it just completely changes the dynamic of what everybody's going to be, how everybody's going to respond. Really, really amazing. So too. I love that. And then what about, so let's go from the celebration, right, into the stewardship. So they've made their commitment, be it verbal, maybe they've actually like handed you the check or done, you know, the stock transfer, whatever that might look like. What's our next step after, of course, we're drinking champagne? But what's the next step? Okay, so my clients will tell you that this is where I've become a very strict accountability partner, a kind of a pain because good stewardship is a make or break for the relationship that you've just worked so hard to create, right? Absolutely. So stewardship, I call it the care and feeding of our donors. Hmm. Right. It is expressions of gratitude, but it is also our opportunity to put really specific processes in place so that we are efficient in the way we do business and we make sure that we know exactly what steps we are taking once we have confirmation of a gift, right? So at the very basic level, your donor commits to making a gift. If it's a large one, you probably want to put a gift agreement in place, right? But let's say it's just a donation through the website for $50, right? We want to make sure that we're getting prompt thank you letters out, okay? So there's four P's that we teach at Fundraising Academy around Stewardship and that is prompt, personalized, passionate, and positive. So that means that the next communication our donor gets is those four things, prompt, personalized. It looks like it was written for them. Passionate, celebratory, joyful. We reference what we know they're excited about and positive, right? So a lot of organizations, a lot of nonprofits, we are working to solve major social challenges. You know, homelessness, hunger, everything that's wrong with society we're working to fix. That can be really heavy. While all those facts are true, there is a way to talk about those things specifically in our stewardship materials where it feels positive, like we are making a change together, right? We want to stick to the positive. And then the point that I always want to make sure I include when we're talking about stewardship is in our thank you letters, our thank you messaging, paper letters, emails, phone calls, no cards we might send out, never ever ask for another gift in those materials. This is space to just be grateful. Yeah, yeah. And I love that you didn't say send them the standard template, right? Like we have to go beyond that and to have those four P's. Would you tell us again the four P's within the fundraising academy? Yes, they are prompt, so timely, right? We want to get those thank yous out quickly, immediately, is that ideal? Are we thinking? Personalized. Sorry for the prompt, is that 24 hours? I mean, that's what I've always been told, but... Yeah, so my rule of thumb with my clients is if it's an electronic donation, it should be automatic, right? They should be getting something in their email inbox within five minutes. If it is a check in the mail, 24 to 48 hours, right? If it is a considerable gift, like the example I gave earlier where we asked for $100,000, we want a written acknowledgement 24 to 48 hours and a phone call from someone who wasn't at the meeting, like a board member or the CEO to follow up and say thank you, right? Because we want to almost overwhelm them with gratitude. And then I would say, larger than something I worked on with a lot of my clients that come out of Gala, the usually very small fundraising team is exhausted and it takes weeks to get thank you letters out for the hundreds of donations that have come in. That is unacceptable. I agree. That's why we've got to have these processes in place so that we can automate some of this, right? We all know behind the scenes that even if something feels and reads like it's personalized, that doesn't mean you went through and wrote every letter individually, right? There are ways to do this. We can do mail merge. We can segment out donor groups, right? Yeah. And some of these things we can do in advance. I mean, it's to be fully prepared and ready to go, I think is just a critical piece because I agree with you, Hannah, especially with events-based fundraising. Folks are exhausted. And then they, I'm amazed at the number of development teams will be like, I'm taking my vacation that next week or whatever. And it's like, no way. That's like when the work is happening, you know? So yeah, I appreciate that you talked about the stewardship piece. It's such an incredible, incredible thing and something to remember with that cost selling life saver as you shared with us. Absolutely. It's a year round, a relationship thing. It's not just a one and done. So I appreciate that piece of it. Yeah. Not to mention, really great stewardship should lead you right back into the beginning of that cycle with identifying new donors that come out of the current donors, friend pool, colleagues, right? Your best donor relationships turn into referrals, which just deepens their commitment to your community. And something that you had said to us earlier that we appreciated with Tony was like, donors can come in at any part of the cycle, right? So you, Hannah, you're like, yeah, it's a circle for a reason. And I just love that. Yeah. And I feel like so many times it's like, okay, we have to start here. But as we've learned through this Power Week and the conversations with so many amazing experience, professional fundraisers is sometimes the donors might start, you know, in step four kind of things. Yeah. Depending on where we are. Yeah, I think that's absolutely powerful. Yeah, very, very powerful. Well, Hannah, this has been amazing. I think just the overall approach about making this ask, changing your mindset, I appreciate that you witnessed to us about your own personal anxiety and how you get all worked up and the stress that fundraisers feel. It's real. It's real. How we can kind of switch our brains a little bit and use some flexible thinking so that we can approach us in a different way, I think is really going to ultimately, I believe Hannah and Jared, help our sector. We burn out and we burn through too many fundraisers. And if we can do something that helps them to be more successful and really, as you said, Hannah, I loved bring that joy and steward that philanthropic relationship. That's magical for society. It really, really is. So I love the celebration. Julia, as you pull up the portal, because we certainly want to talk about that, Hannah, I would love to ask you for just a brief, 30, 45 seconds. Tell us about the cohorts that you mentioned that you lead, because I heard you say, people are always like, let's get to the ask, because I want to know what's that magic sentence or phrase. But tell us about the cohort, because that is another fantastic service that Fundraise Academy offers. Yeah, it's our Cost-Selling Accelerate Program. And it is a 10-week, as of right now, all online, at least the ones I teach. So Fundraise Academy does have partners all over the country, right? But we're mostly all online for this cohort. It generally would meet every Tuesday morning for three hours. I mean, it's a real commitment. This is like going to a graduate certificate program. And it's intensive. There is prep work out of class. We do a lot of breakout groups to do peer-to-peer exchange of ideas. And we walk through the entire Cost-Selling cycle beginning to end. So we take you all the way from identifying prospective donors, how we engage them in the relationship, how we present to them, what the ask is like. We go through mindset. We talk about stewardship processes. And everyone walks away with not just a richer understanding of the concepts for real-world examples from their cohort members that they can put into action. We actually end every single class with a personal action plan because we want the students to be able to go back into their office, right? And immediately put these things into action. Love it. That's great. Do you have any ideas or thoughts on when the next cohort's going to be formed? Will that be in early 2024? I am actually teaching one in the fall. Oh, there is a fall one. Okay, good. Okay, good. Yeah, but Pearl's going to kill me. But at the beginning date, I am blanking on at the moment. We start in September. So I would encourage folks that are interested to visit us online. But yes, there will be a fall cohort and I will be the primary instructor on that one. Probably teaming up with Moody, who's amazing. So. Well, thank you for sharing that. And then also want to share the portal that you can see online. For those of you listening though, it is online.fundraising-academy.org. So this is a free portal, lots of educational information here. In addition to listening to the non-profit show and this week's, you know, conversations through the non-profit power week, definitely dive deeper into the portal because there are hours upon hours of training and education. Again, all free. So I know, I know many organizations just started their new fiscal. This might not have been in your budget, but that's okay because free is always in your budget. Exactly. I love it. And you know, I think Moody Kawajira yesterday said, there's so much more to the cost selling cycle. And in this portal, you can get handouts and different strategies that might help you depending upon where it is you are in your career or even where you are with a particular donor. And so there's a tremendous amount of information. It's not a one size fits all. I think that's my big takeaway is that this allows you to be authentic in who you are, bring in your own personality and your own skill sets while continuing to improve, of course. But it's not just a, you know, you have to do it this way or you can't do it. So check that out. Hannah Berger, CFRE, Fundraising Academy Trainer at National University. Also the President of the Philanthropy Coach. Hannah, this has been a lot of fun. I was telling Jared as we were starting, Jared just loved being, working with you in person at the Cultivate Conference and thought you were just really a dynamic fundraising educator and someone to be around. And so we look forward to spending more time with you and really getting your wisdom so that we can improve the non-profit world because that is definitely something we all need to be doing. Hey everybody, Non-Profit Power Week has been amazing. It is not over. We still have one more day. And so you can join us tomorrow. Tomorrow is going to be a little bit different. It's going to be a reflection, if you will, on what the life of a fundraiser is like and what are some of the questions that folks have to a seasoned fundraiser like Jack Alotto. And so that's going to be a lot of fun because I think Jack, with more than 30 years in the business, has a lot of insights to share and he's always so much fun. But again, Non-Profit Power Week has come to us through the largesse of Fundraising Academy at National University, Blumerang, your part-time controller, American Non-Profit Academy, Non-Profit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Non-Profit Nerd, and Non-Profit Tech Talk. These are the folks that have been with us now, Jared. We're in our fourth year. So it's really a powerful connection that we have made along with these folks to the non-profit sector. Hannah, you've really encouraged me to get back out there and ask for money for folks in my community. Love it, Julia. It's great to hear. I'm coming for you. Ladies, thank you so much. Hey, everybody. We really appreciate your time. I know today we had a few hiccups but on some of the video, but the audio was perfect and the message was really, really valuable. And as we like to end every episode, we want to remind everyone to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone. Thank you, ladies.