 The legacy of Stephen King's game, and to my writer, let's shoot this down a little bit, by Hartman, by Cedric, is Edward Bourne, who is a, he is a reader, writer, and YouTube content creator, and I should say, in this instance, his YouTube channel series is called Stephen King Theorist, and so it tackles more than just that, but as, basically, there's been plenty of content about Stephen King and his work. Yeah, sorry. YouTube content creator, that was a long front of the stage right there, who has worked in every facet of the publishing industry, from editing to cover design, to writing and criticism for the past 15 years. He's been writing professionally since 2011, and his most recent novel, a horror novel, I might say, he is a horror writer, the vetting of boys is due out August 18th. And if you're interested in more of his horror fiction, he's defined on a lot of Amazon, he's here, you can speak to him afterwards. I am Anthony, and I work at the library, and I help put together all these writing panels with Louisian, so if you have been coming to them for the past last evening and today, and if you have a little bit more tomorrow, I thank y'all for participating and coming, and I hope you've enjoyed it. The last one for today is going to be, as I mentioned, the legacy of Stephen King, and I got this idea because I was putting together an idea for a lovecraft panel, because I just recently have become a fan of lovecraft, and his influence is real, yeah. And if you're not aware, there is a big resurgence of inspired fiction of his, I mean, you can get a flush to all of his evil entity, which says something there. So I was thinking, you know, in terms of who is the equivalent of someone who is that prolific, who also has their own mythos in the universe, because that's one thing Stephen King does, that all his novels are connected, and whether or not that was by design from the beginning we can discuss, but it has become that way. And so the question is, we're going to be discussing again, and also we also chime in and ask and state your own opinion, is whether or not his world he has created will stand to test the time and be something that maybe authors can actually even write into. Like they can write their own, it's novel. They can write their own dark tower, but which is probably the most obvious one. And beyond that, just a discussion of dyslexia in general is I think in a lot of ways you can already see his influence in fiction. So I am going to ask you first just, I guess just since I think this goes hand in hand, what do you think the alert of Stephen King's world is that he's people looking for all of that, and that's just finding all of that. And I think a lot of Stephen King's draw is he's a natural storyteller, so what brings people to him is the ease of the writing, the down-to-earth, down-home stories. He's always talking about the little guy, the blue collared worker. He's made all these horrors throughout his entire career have always been based somewhat in reality. Even if there is a monster, a supernatural aspect, you always have a Stephen King's it, for example. Not only do you have Pennywise, the dancing clown, that terror, but you also have Henry Bowers. You have the human element also, and it's like that in every single one of his books. Some of them don't even have a supernatural terror, but you always have that human aspect of it. What is lasted with him the most is his ability to tell numerous stories and make each and every one of these stories different. He speaks to our basic fears, our basic natures. And one of the most brilliant things is he is connected almost like his small towns. He is connected all of his books in one way, shape or form, whether it be characters, plot lines, whatever it might be. All of his work, all 60 plus novels, short story collections, novellas, all that stuff can all come back to either one town or one storyline. Most of it ties into the Dark Tower, which is his fantasy series. And that to me is impressive when you have that much, and these aren't other than the Mercedes trilogy and the Dark Tower series. None of these books are connected, while you have The Shining and Dr. Sleep. But when you have that many, you have authors like Lawrence Block or Game Coons who deal in series all the time. It's not that impressive when you have 20 to 40 books and they all tie together with the same character. We're talking about 60 plus books and in almost every single one of those books, except for maybe 10 of them, it's all unique cats. And he's somehow still turning out new, fresh characters. His newest novel, The Outsider, has several types of characters I've never read about, period, much less read from him. So that's a staying power for me, is not only the world that he's created, but how small he keeps the world, like it's his own small town. Well yeah, I actually think that the Blue College storyteller is in fact one of the things that it really says because to make a comparison to Lovecraft. I think Lovecraft wasn't an early influence of Stephen King. I think he's an early influence amongst anyone who writes in horror genre. Lovecraft himself has his own section of the New England area where there were consumable fictional towns that are connected. His stories would call back to each other. The thing about Lovecraft was that there isn't really any consistent continuity between the books because he didn't really take his idea of the mythos very seriously. He would reuse ideas because that was a pretty good idea. So he can find a lot of the continuity here because he wasn't really writing it that, particularly that in mind. Whereas King took it and he decided to make the New England area a place where the supernatural can happen, where aliens and demons seem to converge and the supernatural people haunted. And one of the things I think that's so interesting about that is that instead of it being a direct menace from Lovecraft, essentially a lot of stuff is alien menaces. A lot of this stuff for... I think that's Stephen King also. Even this stuff that isn't any... Oh yeah. ...correcting aliens can be try-tacted and stuff. Right. True, but I guess the way he faces the ground also is that character drama. Like the story... If you took away the clown, you took away those moments, there's actually... There's a novel there about being young, or the memory of being young and what you remember. I think one of the things to look at is, if you look at those flashbacks, in a lot of ways they're supposed to be like mincemeat or perceived. I'm not sure if you've ever read it. Most of the parts of the children I think are supposed to be like them looking back. Because they're so caught up on details, like remembering the songs, remembering the exact... Trying to remember all the things that made those moments special. That book is about, and the core element of it. Even in the dedication he says to my three children, don't forget about the magic. And it's all about the magic and the mysticism and even the spirituality of the child and how anything is possible, how we're invincible, untouchable, that kind of aspect. But at a certain point in time, when we come of age, something about that breaks. It goes away. And we forget the magic of that time frame. And that book, even though you have the basic childhood fears clowns, I think that's why he locked on to K-Wise for that book. But the book is so much more than some demonic clowns. The book is about the power of childhood, the power of that magic, friendship, companionship, how we build our first relationships as children and how it gets deeper and more prevalent as the older we get. And how the adult world, the adult disappoints you. Part of the job is in regard to them learning that if they didn't already know quickly that their parents are fallible, that adults are weak a lot of times. They're people. There is no one invincible. When we're kids, we think our parents that our parents can do nothing, the most part. The parents can do nothing wrong. And I think it speaks a lot to when we do come of age, is about the time we realize that mom and dad aren't perfect. Or whoever the guardian is in our family life. When we finally realize that these people who either brought us into the world, these people that we looked up to are not perfect, it does something to us. It changes the entire outlook. Just like realizing for the first time that death is the end. If something dies, it's not coming back tomorrow. It's a scary time for anybody. And King likes going to that a lot. That's why he goes back to that over and over again in stories like The Body, in Dreamcatcher, there's even that part. And he tells that same story over and over again the end of childhood and how terrifying that time can be. I'm just following the medicine, following the experience. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's definitely on time. One of the things about King is that where he sees himself in the literary tradition, he's pretty humble in terms of what he thinks of this equality. He's obviously a very well-read person. He's very aware of the class they send like Blake. I'm sure he's read. He's traditionally a reader. He loves new stuff too. He's aware of what he's doing and aware of... He's called himself in multiple times, especially in the 90s, he called himself a literary equivalent of a Big Mac in front of us. So he's the McDonald's fast food meal of the literary world. I'm a big student. I've been for years. My wife's the biggest though. She's an 800-pound gorilla. I've been like tons to her in the band though. Do you feel that at some point though that he lost his weight for a while? He's lost his weight at least for a 90-minute career. At least. The first time was... That's how you come back stronger though. Exactly. I think the outsider one is the newest novel that came out this year is one of his strongest performances ever. Revival is one of his strongest novels, and that's a more recent one also. But the three times I'll bring this up, there's something that happened that nobody ever talked about. King doesn't talk about it. At some point in time around the Kudo era, he wrote several books and several stories and several scripts about a woman being unfaithful to her husband. There was a time that and he wrote some of the darkest stuff during that period. Whether or not Tabitha was unfaithful to him or whether or not he was unfaithful to her, I don't know. But there was a very strong darkness to his work. The ending of Kudo is much different than the ending of the movie. I'm not sure. There was definitely a dark side to King that he finally got out of him around the Pets Cemetery. And that pretty much ended that. In fact, he wasn't even going to publish Pets Cemetery because it was sitting in the drawer for months and months on end because he didn't think anybody wanted to read that book. It was so dark and depressing and there's not a happy thing after the first couple of chapters. And then again, he got addicted to cocaine. Not only that, but he was an alcoholic. He lost his way again with Tommy Knockers. And he'll tell you that at some point in time in Tommy Knockers he went to read that. And when he came back, he finished the book. The book was in pieces when he got so bad the story goes Tabitha came walking in and he was pounding away in Tommy Knockers and she broke down on the trash can. The trash can was overflowing with bloody knackers or tissues and he'd been doing so much coke that his nose was just suddenly bleeding. And he went away. In fact, in Tommy Knockers there was a line that said guard went for a walk and the entire tone of the book changes after that. And I believe that's when he came back from rehab and he cleaned himself up. And then once again in 1999 he got hit by the bank and his entire everything changed after that. I think Dreamcatcher from Aviva Gate and Cell. I don't like any of those books and he doesn't like them either. In fact, when they ask him what his favorite books are he says how about we talk about the ones that are the worst. And he always mentions Tommy Knockers because that's the one where he came back from rehab and Dreamcatcher because that's the first one he wrote when he got back from the accident. A lot. He didn't take painkillers from Dreamcatcher when he refused them because he had so many problems with drugs to begin with. But he couldn't write at his desk so Calvin set him up at the kitchen table and he had his busted leg up and he wrote the entirety. All 600 manuscript pages was probably more like a thousand pages. 600, well let's just say a thousand in old legal letters. The letter found ones. He wrote the entirety of Dreamcatcher and he got all that pain out in there. From a few dates he started that before the accident and he finished it afterwards. And Cell Cell is just a book that I think at some point in time he just stopped writing. Because there's really no ending to that book. I don't like to say it I don't want to spoil anything for anybody but it just stops. I think he has definitely lost his way several times and he's always taken a while to come back. He's always taken, but one of the reasons why he's my literary hero is because he has always managed to come back. He has always fought his way back tooth and nail and he'll be the first one to tell you when he's written a bad book. And I think that's the best part about him where he has game coons or any of these other cats out there is that they're not going to tell you when a book is bad this movie with my name on it is terrible. He thinks Maximum Overdrive is one of the worst movies ever made and he wrote it and he directed it. It's not so much cocaine. He doesn't even ever do it. It's great and shocking. What's funny is I wouldn't understand probably the lead but The Room Catcher is really bad. But that was actually the first book of his I read The Girl Who Loves Tom Gordon when I was like 11 and I don't remember really I remember like It's not a kid, is it? It's got a kid in it. I like how he likes it. I read The Dream Catcher when I was over 13 and I just remember at the time I thought it was really cool. There's a lot of fart jokes in that book. That was really my entry into like I want to read more and more and more. So in a way that book was kind of a gateway. And so I have fond memories of it. But I know that I probably should let that remain on memory and not revisit. Yeah, that book is tricky. Because the first probably 200 pages of that book amazing. Great stuff. And it isn't until he starts killing off some great characters once he kills off the best character in the book in my opinion the book is lost. I'm surprised that he even finished it because even if you need to tell in the text the text, it doesn't get dumber but it gets lazier. The writing of the book gets lazier after a certain character dies and he's like I just want to be done with this. The problem there in lies 400 more pages of this book to go before the end of the book. So now we have to track through. We spent the first 200 falling in love with these guys and learning everything about them. Only to spend the next 400 pages of the book with the guys that nobody cares about. The toss away, right? And that's the recommendation that nobody told our mom. I have both read the first I've read the first two books and I've watched the show. I know you can't catch them. I do the same thing in my books. So it's not it's not a matter really of him killing the main character. In fact, I respect that getting rid of somebody that you think is going to be around the whole book. You're keeping people on their toes. I respect that. I use it myself. The thing is you've got to have somebody else there to take up just like in Song of Ice and Fire. Once he gets rid of somebody there's somebody as interesting if not more interesting there to take to take that and I don't think Dreamcatcher has that. Dreamcatcher goes from the most interesting character dead to now we're falling around like a 32 guy I could care less about. I've read the book three times. I study Stephen King like most people study like Faulkner. I'm the Stephen King scholar if you want to call it. If you can call yourself a scholar like that. You're talking about a girl who loved Tom Gordon when he was 11. My very first Stephen King memory is I grew up in Fontana, California driving the movie theater. I'm sure most of you guys remember the driving theaters. And Pitt Cemetery was out. I was nine years old. My Sorry, sorry. No more no more dates. I was in high school when I read the theory. Well, I think that's one of the hand in hand of what we're discussing here. It's happening that speaks to why this is a relevant conversation because he himself is getting up there. It's a natural fact of life but it seems like if anything his stuff is doing as well as ever I mean it was huge I don't know if it surpassed what they ever thought it would do You know we saw that that show I think the show is fine I remember when people lost their minds over stranger things I was just like this is just the Stephen King play with scripture and verse and it's like obviously people don't love it so it's like well clearly this goes to show that he taps into something he has a even second hand it works for people it works for younger people it works for older people and I think that's really interesting that says something about a writer because a lot of times there's some people like James Patterson I'm not trying to go into any kind of quality but there's been authors like who put hundreds of books on their life no one knows the name they might have accused them they don't know the author that kind of thing the test cemetery story my mom took me to drive in I wasn't really supposed to be there but my dad didn't want to watch me that's a whole story in itself so her and her friend and Rita were going to go see that cemetery and they came to me to go see the vaccine and I'm in the vaccine and my own thing she was hiding behind because they told me it was a horror movie but at one point in time I looked around the chair the driver's seat and Zelda was on the screen I don't know if you guys have seen the test cemetery movie but she's the one with the spine she's like that I was nine years old I saw that but the crazy even though I had that that accident I knew that even at nine years old anybody that could get that kind of reaction from me I wouldn't look farther into when I got home I noticed that mom had that cemetery on her shelf and I picked up she's like no no no I just watched the book is much worse anyways but my mother also had this thing the great book closet she had a huge walking book closet and most of the stuff once I hit the age where I was reading other things other than like goosebumps she would stick like Gerald's game with it in the closet because that's about a woman who was chained to a bed naked her husband just had a heart attack right before they were about to have sex so of course she didn't want me to read that one which is terrific and it got to a point where she wouldn't let me read anything from him because I was obsessed with wanting to read more and the very first Stephen King book that I read was Dolores Claybourne because it came in the mail because she was part of the Stephen King library book club it wasn't my book of the month but it was all they sent were Stephen King books, that's it and it came in and I saw Stephen King book club and I stole it out of the mailbox and I tore it open and I read it over the course of two nights I was 13 years old and I think 92-90 sorry I loved it I haven't looked back since I've been a fan ever since that book there's something about I'll always remember there was something, not only was it adult but it was very childlike also it was written in a way that I could understand everything that was going on he wasn't talking down to me he was just telling me a story that's what I like to do, I like to tell stories and I like to have stories told to me I've always been a fan of stories and that's where he tells is he tells the simplest stories in the year exactly, it's sincere he doesn't feel like he's trying to be pretentious he doesn't need fancy words he is very literary though he has seen thematic qualities he is a terrific literary author he just happens to write about killing and chattery teeth and demonic clowns and crazy number one fans and that kind of thing but there is still literary merit with him and it does aggravate me a bit when I say, oh he doesn't just he just writes horror one of my favorite stories from Stephen King is a personal story of him when he was at the grocery store and an old woman came up and said oh you're that Stephen King guy you write all those horror novels why don't you write good stories like that Shawshank Redemption he goes I wrote that no you didn't but I like that story that's the kind of stories he tells those slices of life it's fun well I think what we've been dressing in I think is very much like a core of people and so which the question is two part one is do you think that this will continue to be like read and do you think as we the prompts sort of suggest do you think people could do you think writers could really write with his material to take his premise take his Salem's Law or take and did they lead themselves not to do that we're already seeing with Joe Hill with his son we're already seeing his news with his novel The Fireman in fact I was kind of disappointed I'm a Joe Hill fan I like Joe Hill but those of you who don't know Joe Hill is Stephen King's son and Owen King and we're all writers the only one who isn't a writer is Naomi which is his daughter and she's a pastor I think she's a humanitarian I think but with Joe Hill's The Fireman I was kind of disappointed because the book is one big Stephen King Easter egg hunt instead of Joe Hill doing his own thing telling his own story you have a deaf kid in their name Nick there's a deaf character named Nick in the span there's so many nods to his dad's work it's even a part where it says you've forgotten the face of your father my life for you all that stuff is from Stephen King's work so you're already seeing it and I know I know Joe is going to continue on with that also do I think that other authors can take up that mantle I'm not sure one of the reasons maybe Lovecraft's estate has lasted in so many people because there wasn't that I guess the copyright he didn't cover it I think it was more kind of like Night of the Living Dead George Romero never copyrighted that that's why you have so many productions of Night of the Living Dead and you have so many zombie movies and that that specific thing so I don't know that you'll see anybody else do it he's also very generous about his adaptations you can make a film adaptation for a dollar of this story you can do it with Carrie Carrie's had three adaptations so far because that one's in the public public domain now you can make you can make a movie of Carrie no problem the movie rights is completely open to everybody but Stephen King doesn't care if the movies are concerned he doesn't care if they're good bad or if they're different I remember him in the same week he said Dark Tower movie was fine those theaters another turn in the wheel and the very same week he said this movie's trash so you can't but movie wise he doesn't care what he knows he knows for a fact and it's been proven throughout his entire career it's bad anytime somebody makes a garbage movie people just go back and buy a book they're always going to come back to him I don't know there might be more there was a sequel to San Juan's Lot that nobody ever talked about they shouldn't it was really bad yeah the return of San Juan's Lot that was bad so people are still playing in this sandbox but as far as a literary thing we're seeing Victor LaValle just recently did The Ballad of Black Tom one of my favorite books from that year which is a riff on the horror of a lovecraft very erasable and then a black man came and wrote The Ballad of Black Tom which Lovecraft would have thought impossible but apes or guerrillas I can't remember his in his letters but and then to have a black man come and do it better I think that's perfect but I don't think that I don't think we'll ever be done with King while King's litter now he said he would love to see more dark power stories so will we see more in that who knows but is he also talking about maybe Hill doing it I don't know because Hill's been playing with the inscapes in his books NOS 42 or NOS 4A2 what do you want to call it that one talks about Penny Wise mixed that one doesn't make an appearance but he mentions Penny Wise and you know was it the interstates the inscapes and the interstates of the mind I thought that was a very cool concept the mid world is basically it's Tolkien had middle-earth Stephen King had mid-world so that's his fantasy realm where everything his kind of all story has come together there's a point in the very fourth fifth our tower novel where he talks about characters in a part Harry Potter DC comics all stories and he himself one of his favorite books of all time is Lord of the Flies he's always used in one hand aspect of his stuff it's his own fandom he has a lot of books about children what is one of his favorite books Lord of the Flies it just goes full circle I really don't know it's a good question so I think I can do it I want to write my own stories now if if Stephen King or somebody affiliated with him came and said hey we want you to write a dark tower novel am I going to say yes? yeah I'm going to say yes because that's just another stepping stone in the career but would it be something that I would be passionate about I can't say that I think it would be my own my own world of course I do it if somebody asks me to do it especially if he asks me to do it if he calls me up and says hey you want to write a book with me sure even though I hear you're a jerk when it comes to writing with people Peter Straub and him stopped talking for 12 years after they wrote the Talisman together and then they came back in a big black house some funny stories because King was so it's all about me and my vision and Straub Straub's another one who was all about his vision but the messed up part is King called Straub said hey you write exactly like I do I disagree by the way I don't think they write anything alike they're both wordy but Straub is verbose Straub will throw 8000 words at you and they want to stop he's a literary author he likes wordplay and all that stuff King will throw 8000 words at you and you'll just be trapped by all the intricacies of that of those pages whereas Straub is way too big for my life there's no point to have this stuff either that or you have to dig for ages to try and figure out things oh it's there you just have to figure it out he doesn't leave the writing the mystery the mystery is left with the story I prefer that I do read some stuff to study the language and to improve craft but that's not funny that's cool some people it is fun it's not for me I like a little bit there's more than one way of writing there's definitely more than one way of reading too well a lot of like the last short story about King he's on this saying he's writing a whole book of stories where he's writing like other people it's funny when he it's funny because he talks about it in the afterword every single story has an afterword or is it before him it's the intro I knew it was one or the other but every single one of those stories is like when I wrote this story I was reading a lot of what Herman walked he was reading a lot of Lawrence I can't, Lawrence Block or he was reading a lot of this author and when you read that even at 70 years old the guy is still a mimic he's reading and that's another reason why Bean Coot's only writes like 15 times he never sounds like anybody else and that's another reason why Stephen King stays so fresh because he is amendment you never know what each book is going to be and right now he writes like a son which is completely backwards this is blowing my mind him and Joe Hill if you were to pick up the outsider back and forth or the fireman let's do the most recent for me the fireman and the outsider almost the exact same voice you wouldn't be able to tell them apart whereas there was one point in time when you could pick up Stephen King and all and go that's Stephen King it's some things like close enough for government work there's some idioms in there that he has that only instead of saying yes and that's something that he used all the time and you read stuff like that that's what Stephen King there's nowhere else that is there's some other stuff but right now if you were to pick up the news book from both of those guys you wouldn't be able to tell the difference and I swear that Joe Hill could have written the outsider I wouldn't know the difference what's the other one yeah you were talking about another people right I feel like Robert Cameron completely listed the standard and kind of him swam something I mean because it's got some of the characters in the same name Mr. Crips is in there it's far as a flag isn't it I had there's funny they should bring that up because with McCannon and King there is a huge chasm between their writing style their stories mimic each other quite a bit in fact if you read They Thirst and Sam's Lot together you will notice that McCannon looked at some stuff from of course you ask some people to say he doesn't matter but I don't feel that way with Swanson it is a better overall experience than the stand is and I get to argue this a lot so it's funny to have it brought up but the problem with the stand the uncut version is there's a whole bunch of information there in the middle of the book where they are rebuilding that town that has nothing to do with the rest of the book it is so out of place in fact I think a lot of it is even in version if you guys don't know the original stand was like 800 pages then he re-released another one that was 1200 pages so one was in like the 80s one was in the 80s and one was in the 90s and no matter what you have that rebuilding of society just that one little section that is so out of place it's almost I know what he was trying to do he was trying to give you a brief glimpse of Hope before he tore it all down again and he was like I realized that I am writing the wrong story I am writing this story about rebuilding society and I have no care to write that so as he thinks dynamite just blows up half the town it's like I have all these characters I don't know what to do with them I don't even like them what do I do with them let's get rid of them he said that before I had a load of characters nothing to do with them so I blow them up but I don't think there is a wall in that book I don't think there is a point in that book and I was like I wish we would get on with the point and the famine the faults that he had early in his career he can't stand his first four novels he likes them all right now but there was a point in time where yeah he considered that the worst books ever written not just he ever wrote but ever written and to an extent I almost agree because they were very schlocky they were very v-rated and he was so much better in the field of growing things when you read those first four books like I want to do I want to write a mystery walk or a boys life or a gone south or a swan song but I'm just not quite there yet so he wrote those first the first one is Baal which was some kind of if you wanted to do the exorcist or some big God novel but it ended up being a 300 page book that just goes everywhere from some rosemary baby fiction narrative beginning to literally fighting a God and then Bethany's sin was a kind of a weak attempt feminist literature from a man's point of view where I guess he figured that this town full of women killing men was the right message I'm not sure exactly where he was going with that one and then you had Nightboat which was actually written before Bethany's sin Nightboat was literally a zombie novel about a Nazi U-boat filled with zombies and they first man, but Faithhurst makes me laugh every time I read it because they literally control a tornado and one of the vampires in the book is a tornado and I was like ok, it's a shark tornado we got that tornado and I've gotten off on the canon but there was a time when the canon was better than King and that was when King was in King King was going down the tubes really quick with his addiction and mind you, had you not had that addiction we wouldn't have got it we wouldn't have got misery we wouldn't have gotten rid of novels out of that but the guy was killing himself trying to be the best and trying to pump out the novel after the novel I think he also going back to his influences he's a big fan of Charles Dickens and Charles Dickens has long complex novels so I think that was sort of his longer is more serious is better so it had to be if it's going to be a real story it's funny because the reason why Dickens novels were so big was because they were serialized they really had nothing to do with him wanting to write big sweeping novels he needed enough material so that he could serialize it each and every day and make each experience as long as the next and then they put it all together and he just happened to have a 900 page what's the title Bleach House whereas Stephen King I think Stephen King has way too much fun with what he does I think Stephen King gets in there and he has a blast and he's just going to sit there and he's going to write every little detail about these people because he finds that fun and I actually can't do a read most of it when he wrote the Green Model he wrote that I mean he did the same thing and I kind of wonder did he actually never leave with going down the story maybe to start writing and I wonder that's one reason we stole that what Drew yeah with Drew there's a really I don't know if you recognize Dan Simmons or the book called Drew it's great historical fiction fictionalized version of fact but with King King had no idea where he was going when he started the Green Model he said all I knew is that the guy came to me when it was a long time editor this is the story details he said hey I want you to do a serialized model well I kind of have an idea of a prison and I said you already did shop shop so you know I want to do something else I want to do something that's really going to break a few hearts and so he started slapping all this together it's funny you can tell the first five of those they're really thin like they're all 98 pages I think I think all the first five the last one's like 150 something I gotta wrap this up at some point in time but no he didn't know where he was going and he wrote it every single month he wrote a new episode well that's why I was wondering I kind of thought he was originally going to make it a little darker instead of like you know I mean like you know but somehow you know that's what I call his Oscar book he was writing that so that he could write so they could make an Oscar nominated who he is I mean for I remember when I was a kid he still had it's kind of gone out but he still had a bad boy red kind of a thing he was so nerdy that's the best part about it he was like the bad boy and the best parts are about good versus evil good usually overcoming that his books are mostly about the idea of decency and the idea of not necessarily like not necessarily hard like being became very spiritual he was always there but more so it's the point where his stuff is kind of inspirational he loves a happy kid well people I mean they normally will comment just they're not you lose limbs or fingers you don't get out of the unscathed but he has the idea that being a good decent person will overcome what happens so I think you know he had those periods of views he always like he can't stop himself from like bringing things back to he says no matter what I write I will always come back to horror no matter what he writes no matter how literary it is there's always a horror aspect we can go down the list any of his stuff like the Shawshank protection the intense the rate of the main character over and over again I think it's done like three months of the main character being raped but you know in prison in a prison setting you go with the body which is a piece of literary fiction but it's about them going to find a dead body you know there's your horror aspect of it so everything that he writes even leasy story which is a literary novel that's all about theme and passion and growing old with the one that you love or without the one that you love even that has a horror element to it so he always calls back on what he does well whether if it's not scaring you there's a 3D disgust if I can't disgust you I want to give you a sense of dread if I can't give you a sense of dread I'm just going to kill everybody so you've got dread, disgust and death so either you're dreading something's going to happen you're watching something or you're trying or whatever maybe or you're just going to try and disgust you like he did in a tight place which is about a guy who ends up getting stuck inside a porta pot that's been turned over that's one of the most disgusting stories but he doesn't draw a line anywhere he's written about everything I can't tell you any other author who's written about a killer it's not even a killer but like a symbol one he used that for a horror story and then turn around you've got Brighton Clown, Vampire number one fan the newest, he even created a whole new monster or whatever you want to I don't want to spoil that name there's a whole new menacing entity in The Outsiders he's still creating things but he takes the everyday and he will make it frightening and I think that's the very nature of this conversation we're clearly not going to have an answer to this question because we don't know but we don't know if it's legacy I'm sure it's legacy but I don't know that other people will take up the torch other than his kids well it's clearly understandable now and I thank you all for coming and participating in this conversation thank you for the questions and everything I appreciate it is he ever his favorite novel or yeah one of the the one that inspired him the most is Arthur Mockin's The Great God and that's one of his biggest inspirations in fact when he wrote his novelette N and his novel were viable deal with those themes quite a bit and also I can discuss it earlier he's one of his favorite novels he's also a huge fan of venture novels just the big club guy saving the bandwidth that kind of thing he loved that stuff and just cheesed the worst science fiction you've ever seen he likes the kind of thing where you see the monster you can see the strings pulling it up you can see the boom coming into the brain has he ever acknowledged what he thought is he ever strong is he? yeah in fact his quote isn't it funny how our part always smelled the best to us so he thinks one of his best novels is that's his quote by the way not mine, his leasy story he thinks it's his own powerful work I promise you nobody's gonna remember it it's gonna be one of those people that even says people are gonna remember him for the S novels Stan, The Shining and Salem's Life that's what people are gonna remember him for I thought Kerry was pretty strong he's got more we are all time I want to thank you all again for coming thank you I hope you enjoyed your time thank you