 Good morning. Welcome everybody at the second session of this year of the green post-coronaut talks organized by the Green European Foundation and Think tank oikos. I'm dick Holoman your host of today and co-president of the Green European Foundation and As every time with these talks we have people falling from all over Europe Which is great And so I really would suggest if you have a question put it in a chat But also right in which city or country you live then we have a kind of road Perspective and how many Europeans are participating at this talk today? We want to highlight the different approaches Green governments have taken at different levels to tackle the COVID-19 crisis Because as we know the COVID crisis serves in the first way as a kind of mirror Showing us the difficulties that are already there in our society the precarities the inequalities But it even increases and the COVID crisis you can say hurts hurts the people that live in precarious Situation the most think about single parents living in small apartments Think about school children not having access at home To internet and so finding it very difficult to study Think about people who lost our job lost their jobs and also as we all have read in the newspapers They're very sad observation that more people than ever have to make use of food banks So it is clear that the role of Public sectors in general and health care specifically is crucial in this crisis and also the way Governments can support the most vulnerable in our society To discuss this we have two very inspiring speakers today It's really my pleasure and honor to introduce to you Peter the sitter Belgium vice prime minister and minister for the civil service and public enterprises and Next it's also my pleasure to introduce you Sonia. So the gov'ts off She's Leon councillor responsible for international relations cooperation international solidarity and European affairs Petra if I may call you so Since the pandemic started well first you were a member of the European Parliament and then you became prime minister twice Prime Minister in Belgium With a government taking place in the midst of the second wave of the covid crisis in Belgium and So I think you have quite a good overview of the different governance levels in keeping in mind We are still really in the midst of this crisis and I think nobody can predict when it will really end So it would be very good if you could offer us some reflections the lesson you learned first It being part of your key empowerment and now being a vice prime minister in Belgium. So Petra. I'm very happy to give you the floor Thank you. Thank you for inviting me here It's always a pleasure to to be Part of this kind of discussions and to see you again even in this way It may be just to add also I have a medical background which makes it even more Relevant, I think to discuss on this kind of pandemic and health issues So, yeah, I would I would say that as far as we are now because we're not yet out of the crisis, of course We have I think learned or we have to learn five lessons from this crisis in regards to the health care health care systems We we know that the pandemic if I may say has has seen health systems across Europe subjected to to Overwhelming rise in the number of patients needing treatment, of course being admitted to hospitals dying sadly and this has been Unprecedented we were not prepared for this that's clear It also has led so far to increased government spending on health care and a lot of creativity of the health care system Itself to create additional capacity. We all remember it's definitely in the first wave Mainly what was needed to have more ICU beds than Available in most of the the hospitals Even building additional facilities and even asking the army to intervene and so on I mean, we remember the first wave, of course Of course this came actually I would say hot on the heels of decades of austerity Policies in Europe and elsewhere in the world And because of these decades of austerity many countries were not prepared and and were found themselves They found themselves at a disadvantage and we as green politicians We've been pointing out the lack of public investment in health care and of course the evolution towards Commercialization of our health services for years. I would say for decades as well Yes, the EU has played a role in this too because we know that if we look at the European semester I guess most of you will know what that means in the negotiations with the member states The EU has asked to privatize health care systems and reduce health expenditure public expenditure Over 60 times in the past years. So this was clearly not a priority also at the EU level And this liberalization I would say and focus one-sided focus on cost efficiency in health care systems Has have thus left us with very little Surplus capacity buffer capacity I would say for crisis management In Belgium for instance, and we didn't we were not the worst I must say there were other countries that that were worse But we have we have seen staff shortages in nursing homes for instance for the elderly Since many years and of course nursing homes have been hit particularly hard by the corona crisis And the death toll in these settings has been particularly High now if this crisis has shown us one thing then it is that a strong public health system with strong Qualified workforce is crucially important if we want resilient public health care Resilient society and a resilient economy for that matter and Europe and the member states Need to invest much more in health in health systems and in health care staff I would say that would be the first lesson to take from this crisis so far The second lesson is that uh, yes, we were not prepared. So crisis management crisis preparedness needs to be strengthened and we've seen that Even if there were earlier warnings for this pandemic to come We we didn't see them and we didn't act along along the lines To to be aware of or to be prepared for that Maybe as green politicians we can of course address the issue of the fact that Covid in in essence is of course a zoonotic disease disease that jumps from animals to to the human population Which we have seen in the past and which has to To be sought in in a troubled relationship with ecosystems and habitats wildlife habitats, of course We've seen HIV AIDS. We've seen Ebola as previous examples But never of course at this scale experts already are warning that after Covid 19 There will be other pandemics emerging in the future As long as and for sure if we continue to destroy the wildlife wildlife habitat in in in the world For us as as green parties it it will become increasingly urgent I would say that we have governments and european institutions Understand the delicate balance between people and planets and wildlife for that matter the eu Committed of course Now to protect biodiversity in 30 percent of all ecosystems by 2030 and that commitment needs to be backed up By investment and and action links between biodiversity loss and origins of the present crisis and also between air pollution and vulnerability To Covid 19 show that the issues of environment and health simply cannot be separated and as greens We've known that for many many years, of course a second I would say area where we're not we were not prepared at all is that That of the protective materials What what is called PPE personal protective equipment? We in belgium for instance just before the the pandemic Rise Has a reason I would say we destroyed massive stocks of masks And we did not replenish them Although we had a pandemic pandemic plan that that urged us to do so it simply didn't happen We had shortage shortages in protective clothing Which was especially dangerous in nursing homes during the first wave and was the reason for a lot of infections and And deaths unfortunately We may have believed That the global markets would not fail us on this But we were wrong They did fail us and they were unable to provide enough protective equipment To meet the global pandemic And what this has exposed is that european countries are too dependent on global supply change This is something that has to do with the globalization that we've seen for for decades as well So one of the lessons to take there is maybe think about Local production for critical and essential goods and services. This is something I think the EU is really considering now The third lesson I would say is that if we look from a european perspective that european governance really matters if we want to convince citizens and Tell them that the EU is important We must prioritize those issues that europeans really care about and this is health and well-being And the EU must go beyond recommendations and take binding action Um The agency for instance european center for disease prevention and control Has a mandate for crisis management and preparedness, but it should be strengthened and given Greater power to coordinate possible border closure or provide emergency stocks of medicines and equipment We've seen that all these things happened in the first wave in a very Uncoordinated and chaotic way which led to even more problems afterwards And only later the the european commission has managed to to get some some coordination and recommendations to the member states The fourth lesson is that we need to rethink how we produce and market Pharmaceuticals. This is something that really enters the debate today with the vaccines, of course The power of the pharmaceutical industry is is tremendous firms not only negotiate prices to their advantage But also focus on producing the most profitable drugs. They're not so much interested in orphan drugs or low-cost drugs so I think this is an opportunity to really consider a paradigm shift And the new paradigm in drug development or vaccine development should probably be Or it's a model to be examined should be delinking and delinking means that we disconnect the costs Of research and development From the price I would say the marketing of the end product the cost and the risks of research and development Could be remunerated Directly encouraging innovation, which means that it could respond to a greater To to patient needs to a greater extent Not where the highest profits can be found Now it is the companies themselves that choose Which development which research they will Have and and of course they will direct Their research to products that in the end will be more profitable and it will not start from what society Really needs what our patient needs and that is probably a public decision to be taken So you could think of a system where the production the second step of medicines could then You know be the responsibility of generic firms Where market mechanisms may play a role But are delinked from the development of new drugs that would be the decision of public authorities Because now Sometimes or often pharmaceutical companies actually collect their money twice They pick up public funds for rnd and they work together with your insurance Systems delinking would it make easier to set conditions for the pharmaceutical companies? The government could require open source Working or insist that companies make their technologies available free to economically poorer countries Which is a bit of the discussion that we have now with the vaccines It is important that we do not forget that other parts of the world, especially in the pandemic Do not have easily access to drugs and to vaccines now and for this pandemic You've heard the slogan before no country will be safe until every country is safe So the eu out of solidarity But even out of interest for themselves Another member states should invest more in the in the kovacs program that probably most of you will know which has been Set up to provide economically poorer countries with free vaccines But even kovacs will not be sufficient to get us there My my personal opinion is that we have to reconsider as well the existing rules around patents intellectual property and industrial secrets and they should be lifted if it is really necessary in In times of crisis as the current one You know probably of the the trips agreement. Well, you can have a waiver to that agreement This is perfectly legal and NGOs and certain countries like South Africa and India have been asking for that A waiver that would allow certain countries Freer access to the intellectual property Of the production for the production of drugs or vaccines as in this case And this is simply in the interest of world health of global health, which is also our own interest by the way And then the last lesson To close is that misery loves company And dirk you you have already touched upon it in in your introduction This crisis is not the the the great equalizer in on the contrary It has really led to inequalities being much more visible than before and a polarization that we've never seen before Some of the issues you have mentioned like poverty and so on But I was I would also add mental health issues. I would add child abuse. I would add health Sorry add domestic Violence gender-based violence. We just had international women's day to Yesterday as you know, this this is a great subject an important subject to to consider seriously as well We also know that Covid in itself will lead to some long-term health consequences Like fatigue chronic cough and some other symptoms that that are not being investigated at all right now And the WHO has said that this could even happen in people with mild disease So we'll have to prepare our healthcare systems to deal with a whole lot of patients that What he calls your kind of post-covid syndrome Which will need some Approach and and we are nowhere Today in the care for these these people Um another issue that I think is important to mention is that because of the covid crisis and the burden on the hospitals a lot of the non-covid care has been postponed We know that in belgium in 2020 40 percent fewer cancer diagnosis have been made than the year before That means people with cancer that have remained undiagnosed and that will be diagnosed in a later stage Which means a stage where probably The risks for their health will be more important and the mortality will rise So because cancer needs to be diagnosed in the earliest possible stage of course So we need to take a broader view of healthcare issues Also in this pandemic and the OECD has stated that while the spotlight has largely fallen on hospitals We also have to look at primary healthcare and mental health services because they're also in a critical stage In times of crisis and we have to foster longer-term resilience So and then I will end with that as greens. We always stress the need for a true Health in all policies approach. We can't repeat it enough one that takes into account consequence of public Policy on healthcare systems health determinants inequalities and well-being And not only focusing on health, but also on food on agriculture on trade Unemployment they all affect our health and we have to use that health in all policies approach In all our policy decisions because prevention as it has been said so many times is key prevention benefits also the citizens And the national budgets of course in healthcare expenditure. Thank you Thank you very much Peter for this very in a concise way giving talking about these five lessons I was really very informative like I didn't know that the EU 60 times asks National governments to privatize parts of their health system. It's really looking back crazy I also think it's very important that you touched upon the intellectual property rights because if there would be no Patent or kind of weaver we could have many factories in many countries now producing sufficient vaccines. So it's I think it's really a key message and also of course in the end Emphasizing that health is a holistic issue that we have to talk about prevention about the role of food Housing I think is indeed Very important as greens to always think about this So many thanks for really in a short time giving us a lot of insights And so now I'm very happy to give the floor to Sonia who is as I said council in Lyon A city in France and so it's very interesting to now have a view from the city level And of course Sonia you can inform us not only about situation in Lyon, but also In France and and maybe also we of course a bit curious about this The formula for this magic success in the local elections the greens did so yeah, we're very Eager to listen to you We're thanking you to give me the opportunity to talk to you today to take the floor to share the floor with Petra It's a great opportunity to highlight what has been done here in Lyon during this Difficult time. So as you said, we were recently elected. We were elected at the very end of june So we've been working for the past six to eight months And and working during during a pandemic The situation here in Lyon is I would say preoccupying but maybe not the most alarming situation in France We've been talking a lot recently in the media about Dan Kirk or niece Dan Kirk, for instance as an incidence rate that was above 1000 cases last week Which is really high because anything above 50 must be monitored here in in Lyon. We are Within national average. We are around 240. So like I said preoccupying but not the most alarming one What is preoccupying is probably the fact that 50% of the positive cases that we get here are variants of the original virus Most of them being what we call the British variant which is way more contagious than we were than the one we were used to and also The fact that the availability of the intensive care units Is very low in Lyon 95% of them are completely full half of them by covid patients Meaning that we don't have much leeway to take care of potential future future patients and like Petra said, uh, I guess The government heard the the the call from the european union because between the first lockdown and now The the availability of the intensive care units intensive care units have been reduced So we have left less and less room to actually accommodate covid patients We've started vaccination like the rest of the country. It's going well, but at a Not so speedy pace We are able to vaccinate in one of the major vaccination center. I will talk about it maybe later between five thousand and seven Seven people each week and then we have to deal with the day-to-day situation, which is Not a lockdown. We are not on the lockdown at the moment, but we have a curfew We have a curfew. We have to be home by six If we're not working remotely and those people are encouraged to work remotely, but it's It's not as cold as it was during the first lockdown, I would say So the the perspective and how we try to work from you is obviously a very local perspective We have some prerogatives, but not as much as a national government. So we're trying to Maybe complete or improve some of the National solution that has been offered by by the state Uh, some of the things that we've tried to implement implement I will list a few was first of all when we first arrived was to set up testing centers Uh, we've worked with the regional health agency and the hospitals of leon To to set up a lot of testing centers mainly throughout the city and mainly near Underground station entrances to be able to get as many people tested as possible And that was more of a urgency situation kind of thing And then we moved on to work with the hospitals So there are three major testing testing centers throughout the city within hospitals And then one major testing center which was set up within the stadium The stadium opened in september 24th And between september 24th and december 9th We have tested 42,000 people Mainly from the area, I would say 50 of them were from the city of leon And then 40 were from the greater leon area And then we had 10 of people coming completely out of Out of the area out of the region Mainly during the holiday the fall holiday a lot of people were passing through And they knew there was the stadium that was open where you could be tested Without any appointment for free And then you would get your results by mail within 24 hours So that was a great setup and we were praised Including by the national government which we don't really always share the same ideas For being so reactive and offering Complimentary solutions to what was happening In france Then now we're moving on from testing centers to opening vaccination centers Because that really is the crux of the situation We have to get as many people as vaccinated So the vaccination centers have been open also within hospitals And we have divided the stadium between now a testing center and a vaccination center We're vaccinating anyone above 75 years of age Anyone above 50 was one or two comorbidities And of course anyone within the health care system or working in care Especially if they work with the elderly or anyone who's More likely to get sick than the rest of the population So it's definitely not as speedy as we would like it to be I think Petra probably put the finger on some of the reasons It's not going as fast as we would like to But we're doing our share as a city to make sure that the vaccination is moving on And then we have other health care measures we've been implementing To like I say complete and or improve National solutions we've we've worked a lot as a city on mental health care issues which is I guess we're not cringes both of us for no reasons We've truly Understood that that was one of the biggest issues we had to face a lot of people Are struggling with the situation the several lockdowns the fear of having a third one The lack of revenues for many and the fact that we don't really get to enjoy life as we used to It's the absence of bars restaurants cultural venues. It's really taking a toll on all of us And we have to take care of those who are struggling the most so We have set up a helpline which is open 20 27 days a week Seven days a week 27 which is open seven days a week And we've also set up Listening points throughout the city to make sure that those who were not maybe Who wouldn't have the the will or the mv to call will also be able to talk about Their fears and how they will they were coping with the situation and we opened those listening points throughout the cities but more of them within the Not so well of neighborhoods because we thought that this had to be a priority for us and we also worked quite a lot on dissemination of information awareness raising about Some of the gesture you should do or avoid so as to prevent the spread of the disease And also information just about where we are in the situation altogether Where we're heading? What are the possibilities where we might be heading? I think Also, what is taking a toll on us is the uncertainty on what's going to happen to us So as a as a city has a maybe a smaller group local group We try to be supportive of the population in that way to make sure that Information including national information, but also local information was widely available we've worked as well on backing Economic actors and we focused on some of the local maybe more smaller businesses We make sure that they were able to remain open with adapt adapted Maybe procedure and we've also developed an app. We relaunched an app actually that was Created during the first lockdown where you could actually list and geocolize businesses that are locally owned that offer locally maybe produce That offer locally. Yeah locally produce food or things or whatever to support our next neighbor basically and Unlike the first the first lockdown we made sure that This new majority that we ask greens. We would keep the markets the open air markets opened during the first lockdown They were closed and the only way you could do your grocery shopping was to go to supermarkets Now we know that it's Better if we have to be more than six people in one area to be outside rather than all together in one room So we made sure they remained opened With the adapted procedure and we've also opened some of the spots within the opening markets to restaurants catarors Anything related to food services to give them a chance to sell their The food that produce and to have some sort of revenue But also to keep their relationship between Their customers and themselves alive I know maybe i'm talking too much about food, but it's quite important to us in france, but also in young with the capital of french gastronomy, so Not being able to have that relationship and to have that opportunity and to see everything basically closed. It's very hard for us Economically, but also socially. So that was one of the one of the things we worked on of course We also try to facilitate Solidarity initiatives. I think it's very important that we take care of each other and that we facilitate those who are interested in taking care of others So when the second lockdown started at the very end of october We as a city Collected and distributed all the perishable goods that we saved from closing restaurants and catarors and other food services And everything was distributed to the most in need to those most in need And then we again worked on apps and also ways of putting people in touch so individuals one up was putting individuals in touch those who had Time and the will and the energy to help and those who needed help And also we reference all the initiative that were maybe Supported by Institutions like the city or the greater your area or the region By associations are many association which are helping during this situation and also some firms And and everyone was able and still able to contribute in one way or another to facing tackling the situation together and then I think one of the thing I would like to talk about also was the fact that this Situation was also a struggle for a lot of us because we were depending on decisions made by others and we couldn't really Couldn't really I don't know We were not the actors anymore of our life and we were suffering the situation and we were not taking part in the solutions We could help but we were not suggesting solutions. So we as a city we took this decision to create A local advisory council. So it's called the conseil conservative kovid It's a new government's institution And a way to give back power to the citizens and to give them the ability and the opportunity to Provide and suggest solutions. So it's made up of 300 people Which represent the diversity of the city of lyon they match regularly Each month actually it was created in december. So it has met three times so far in december january And february and also every month They are all surveyed. So they get to Work and be consulted on different issues When they formally met they never met all together because 300 people that would be According to national guidelines, that would be right. They met they meet by group of 30 people and never the same. So Each people will have the opportunity at some point to sit within the council And when they are not sitting within the council, they are at least taking part in the survey the surveys they've been Tackling issues such as the lockdowns and other preventing Preventive measures that were collectively taken to prevent the spread of the virus Especially during the the end of the year celebrations that that was in december And then in january, they worked on the potential reopening of cultural venues Which was a great way to Actually draw out solutions, which were then suggested to the national government And now there is a discussion going on between the cities and the national government about potentially reopening cultural venues and adapting They were reopening because a lot of people don't understand why we are able to go to supermarkets, which are pretty big and To take public transportation But we're not able to go to the movies or to the theater with a small like amount of people around us Okay, so yeah, uh, allow me to uh To be here. Thank you very much. It's clear that you are very doing great things here and also this complementarity between what Petra said the national government can do And then also this these things I really appreciated your listening points you installed in the city I think it's a great initiative also Yeah, the food you remind us why it's always nice to come to your city But interesting to how you invest in trying to maintain the relationships with food producers And I think also crucial and we see that in many cities is the support Local government gives to solidarity initiatives of citizens this bottom-up approach And I think this is also key for I would call it a green policies is really to work together with the citizens Not this classical top-down way of working um, so many thanks and we I will come back to you with a few questions, but we already have one question from the public for Petra and so there's someone asking Could we make pharmaceutical products? Public goods so that governments do not have to bargain with private companies for products. They funded to develop Yes. Well, um, when I um, I started, um, I I talked about the concept of the linking Which is actually partially That concept that means that the public Authorities decide which new drugs we need to develop and research And once they are there we could ask companies to produce them There is a lot of discussion whether the the government should also produce drugs That would be a further step. It's not impossible, of course But the the concept of delinking both is interesting because then you uncouple also the influence that exists between the pharmaceutical Industry and the universities Which are very very intertwined and sometimes leading to conflicts of interest and some other problems So you could interfere there as the public authority But then let the production over to the market as I said to companies Now there is a way of course to go a step further and in crisis times like we have now The trips agreements which regulate world trade and intellectual property They provide in a waiver Which is possible for drugs to be produced in countries that do not own the intellectual property And the first application was for hiv 8 medication in for instance, south africa years ago Where they could produce their own Drugs from the patents that were out there At a cost that they could afford because of course these drugs were much too expensive for them So there is a lot of pressure now international Internationally to do the same with the vaccines Make it open available and then other Producers like in india We have a lot of pharmaceutical companies that are able to produce the vaccines But they don't have the formula. They don't have the patent So if you open that up and have a waiver to the trips agreement You could even go to compulsory licensing where authorities decide that the patent is lifted And they give it to other producers to do this in view of their own national public health Interests so there is systems that allow that but as you understand Countries member states in the west in the eu Very interlinked with the pharmaceutical industry Of course, they're very hesitant to go for this kind of mechanisms because they would see it as an attack against the pharmaceutical You know industry as a whole so it's a very delicate thing But I fully agree with with the the question that drugs maybe should be seen much more as public goods Which are financed by the public and then You know paid by the public a second time Then this is the case. This is not a normal market situation As you as you could see it for other goods. So that point definitely is taken Thank you. And of course it relates to the work of matsukato about who creates the wealth in our society And after they tried to apologize not informing the public that you're Genecologist and also former professor in reproductive medicine So you're really an expert also in the field of medicine and how universities work Insight and together with companies. So, uh, sorry for not mentioning that scene at the beginning And so now I want to move to what I would say a bit more political questions I was already starting to Ask this question Petra Greens have entered governments in belgium. There are many parties in the government So How can greens Make a difference In government governments in crisis Simple question. I think no we see answer, but I have to ask it Yeah, it's a simple question, but it's very complex because we started in october So just on the eve of the second wave. So the first thing that we had to do is to take very Drastic measures. Um, we couldn't prevent the second wave, but then we put in place A whole lot of measures that after the second wave kept us on a plateau So we did not have a third wave so far in belgium and let's touch wood that this will not happen You you enter in a whole discussion about the democratic legitimacy of the the measures you take if you if it's constitutional and so on So this is a whole debate that we're involved in I remember when we installed the curfew We were very much Against this but in the government with seven parties you have to find a consensus. It's not majority minority It's really consensus and give and take so we understood that there was a big will to install the curfew as it was in different countries Now we're talking about lifting it again We are you know the first in row to say, okay, this is the the proportionality of such a measure We have You know come to the end of it If if we will reopen society within let's say one or two months, which is on the table if the the corona Data allow it, of course, but then you hear that some parties say well, we shouldn't stay with the curfew Because it's easier for the police to control people and that is for me a very bad argument So we will have that debate and we'll have a heavy fight on that Very soon in the government But maybe besides the the kovit, I would say having greens in a government is is extremely important, of course to Get us closer to the the green transition that we have been working for for many many years This is an ambition of the of the european commission as you know the green deal And now with the recovery, you know that Europe is giving quite a lot of money to the member states To to recover from the crisis and to rebuild industries economies and so on We have pushed in the federal government of belgium for more than 50 percent of all the projects to be what is called climate target Targeted because the european commission asks for 37 percent. We went to above 50 percent Mainly in mobility and in energy which are domains that are in our portfolios So that's that's a good thing But we have really pushed much further than what really was on the table and our coalition partners Let us do that. Why? Well, we are with five ministers in the current government, which is exactly 25 percent and we have quite some weight specifically because we have all these green domains of climate green deal energy and mobility Mainly so these are the the the portfolios where we really weight much more than in any government before us Even the prime minister who's not a green who's a liberal he said that the government agreement that we made was the greenest The greenest agreement In belgium history and I think this this is true Of course, we'll have to push to implement it and to see the results of it But so far like in the recovery the rrf This the discussions for so the relance as we call it as well. We've really pushed a lot and and put our Our issues on the table. I can give many other examples of social policies also of asylum migration Where we really are a motor a driving force in the negotiations within the government To to push the agenda in the good direction It takes time and since it is a consensual process where there is a lot of negotiations It may be less visible than maybe our voters would want to see and we are not able to accomplish the whole of our program But so far after five six months, I would say it's really going into a good direction even more We are also kind of a a buffer I don't know if I if that's the right word word But economically you usually have the liberals and the socialists and they fight all the time And we can take positions which are somewhere, you know in the middle or above or it's interesting to have a dynamic with With more than than these two parties on on that single ax Of course, you have the christian democrats as well and this is the four Groups and that's why the coalition is called vivaldi But the christian democrats they always agree with with everybody. So they're not really a force in the debate They are following and sometimes but we are an interesting player that can move decisions in one or another direction dependent on the subject So I think the dynamics are very promising. Okay. Thank you this And I would say it's maybe better to be on top than being in the middle of children parties But you mentioned the curfew which indeed is is a now kind of central debate also in the parliament and so sonia In france, you also have experience with a very strict curfew. So I can imagine there are also quite some debates So i'm curious what your stance is on the curfew um, I wouldn't say the curfew is very strict because um I I work often past 6 p.m. And when I go outside and go back home, I can see there are a lot of people outside So I think there's a lot of fatigue from everyone in france about the pandemic the situation And also the measure is taken by the government. So what we're trying to do is to be constructive Like I said, we're not we don't always agree with what the decision taken by the national government And we make sure that they know but we're also like I said earlier trying to be constructive to offer a solution and not to just complain and Criticize what is being done by the national government who doesn't share our values or ideas but to also have ideas of our own and To me the curfew I wouldn't really know what to say honestly because I'm not sure it's the best way to Make sure people do not cross each other. Like I said, we're working on maybe reopening cultural values values and having theaters and cinemas open just like supermarkets are opened and Maybe it's important to work on People's movement and flu and to make sure that we do not Cross too many people and that the virus doesn't spread as easily as it could But is the curfew the right answer? We've been under the curfew for more than For a lot of weeks. I can't remember the last time it was debated And that's one of the things maybe I screened. We would like to see is debates debates again Around the issues around the the several measures that are being taken by the government To debate With the government as a city but also to have that debate Among us as citizens and that the government is not doing at the moment. They're just Taking decisions and we have to deal with it Okay Um One question I really also want to ask to Petra is We are all most of us working a lot at home data working Which has now become the norm and and on the one hand you can say it has advantages you can Manage your life a bit more flexible, but on the other hand It can also have bad effects on your work work life balance working much more hours without taking notice of that and so Petra your minister for civil service and public enterprises And so I'm interested to hear what kind of policies Have been implemented to support workers working at home And also do you see differences between the public sector and the private sector and also imagine The covid crisis is over I think there will be a new situation So how do you look at this? Yes, thank you. Dirk because this is indeed one of my competencies and I'm working on that I would say almost daily Telework which was seen before the crisis as something. Yes. We let's think about it, but a lot of People in leading positions did not trust it too much. They did not trust Too much people working from home. Are they really working or doing other things and so on? I think we have Past that attitude completely because now we are in compulsory teleworking mode That means everybody that can telework must telework except if if you can't or there's an exception So in the public service in the civil service, we have introduced teleworking Since now Yeah, quite some months and we are monitoring the adherence the cohesion I would say to to that measure and it's about 85 percent. Now, there are exceptions You know a warden in a prison cannot telework obviously So there will be exceptions, but 85 percent is not too bad in the private sector It tends to be lower We know that and there is social inspectors that are checking on that some enterprises Publicly even say we are tired of it. It doesn't work. It decreases our efficacy and there's a lot of disadvantages We need to stop this. I think in the public service. There is also a lot more social control I mean in a department if let's say Somebody in charge decides that everybody has to come to the office. It will be known immediately Everywhere and there will be a lot of reactions. So I think the adherence is much higher there now I would say that you cannot install telework just like that. You have to make some Framework for it and in in the future telework is going to stay in a kind of a hybrid Model we will probably and this is also an agreement of the government Install it for two days a week on average for civil servants This is also what they ask. It's not something that we are imposing This is something that lives on the floor. The people would like that Balance two days at home and then three days in the office, for instance So there is a support for that. Well, you need some some costs That need to be compensated some remuneration for that because you are of course using electricity heating internet from home You need ergonomic ergonomic material if you work from home, you can't sit on a kitchen chair all the time Some people need Specific or have specific needs. So for people with a handicap we have already Found funds to adapt their workstations at home to to the the way that they would work in the office There's a whole a lot of things that you have to think about we are even offering training to people in charge How to I would say coach A team from home. How are you going to do that? This these are asks for new skills new Competencies also in people that are in charge of of the teams And in management positions We are working on burnout prevention tools This is an important one because telework specifically now when it is compulsory Leads to a dangerous situation where there is no line between work and and Live the work life balance can be fully disturbed. We're working on our smartphones Every time we see the mails coming also in the weekends. And this is a Ingredient for burnout So we need to make sure that there is something like a right to disconnect to go offline and that this is respected also By the team leaders and also by people themselves We need to protect them against sometimes the the wish to continue working all the time Which is a danger Towards burnout. So we are putting in place that framework and for the future. We will you know make legislation that that Yeah, make implements that framework in the in the civil service in the public function In private functions as well But there it will be more a negotiation of course between the the enterprise you work for and you as a worker Also the compensation for telework the conditions The right to disconnect we will want really to to write that in law because it should be applied Not only in public also in private and I know also at the european level I've been working before in the parliament on the right to disconnect This is something that is a concept that people are thinking. Why why do we need that? But if you think further, yes, we need it. We need to protect people against themselves sometimes both in public and private, of course Okay, thank you Time is moving fast. So I think there is time for one last I would say not question that kind of suggestion Somebody made from the public and I would really be happy to hear a short reaction of both of you. So this reaction Women are often overlooked when it comes to the economic impact of coven 19 As countries respond to the biggest challenges of our generation They should view women as builders of a stronger more equitable post-covid world Women should be put first So maybe Sonya Yeah Young politicians both in age and in experience I think women are overlooked not just when it comes to the economic impact of coven 19 We're often undervalued and and not heard or our opinions are not valued. So Yesterday was a international women's day or as we call it in France the the day for the advancement of rights of women Which is I think better way to put it There's still a lot to do and I'd say that we as greens at least in France. I think we're taking our part as well in that I I joined the the greens the french greens because to me it was the only party in France Which was really feminists Which really had the value of women at heart and which really was hearing where we had to stay and taking It into consideration and not just putting women because it was pretty on the picture or young people because it it was looking also pretty on the picture, but they actually value Intelligence and working all together the group and not just Putting forward individuals and which are usually white male and above 50 in other political parties. So Yeah, I don't know women should be put first, but they should definitely Not be over over overlooked or in the value. That's for sure Thank you very much for this. I think very relevant observations. So Petra, you have the last words Well, um, yes, just to add a few things to what Sonja said, which I fully agree with of course I think the green party is the most feminist party. There is clearly I think if we look at the care sector in this crisis and we have been Applauding them. They were the heroes of the crisis taking care of of us. You should know that 90 90 percent Actually 83 for the for the nurses and in and 93 for the ed swan yaw. I don't know in english the caring Staff in in hospitals, but also in nursing homes and so on are women, of course So they are the ones that are the real heroes of the crisis They are women that also had families that were there at the risk of their own health now they're vaccinated Okay, but until recently They were standing in the front line. If we say the people in the care sector, we should thank them Most of them Are the the people that that are at the beds of the patients and they are women again and we can talk about the you know Care that women again took during this crisis for the family for the children All the stereotypes all the inequalities that that came up again that were reinforced by this crisis and that Well, we discussed indeed Also yesterday on the international women's day I think it's it's an important subject to to Remind us often to get that gender mainstreaming Approach in all our policies Definitely in crisis, but let's not forget it in the post-covid times as well Once we have again to make political decisions for the future Okay, thank you very much for this concise hour and Concise answer and this webinar really went one hour and it's over. So this This means it were very interesting Contributions. I want to thank you both and I think for me, it's clear that If you talk about green values and what should green policies be about it's I think really putting care Care the value of care in the center of all policies and how also how we look at the world and how we look at each other And I think really if we could build a new world centered around the concept and value of care, we really are Building a better post-corona world. So many thanks for your contribution. I know you are very busy people. So I would say Let's see you again in better times. Maybe in Lyon that would be lovely So bye everybody. Thank you, dick. Always a pleasure. Bye. Bye