 October 16th committee of the whole to order a roll call All their Felde is excused all their Filiki Pineski all their Salazar All their Ackley is excused all the Raimi All the Russ is here all their Decker here all their Pirella All their Mitchell and all their Heidemann Please join me in this Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America And to the Republic for which it stands one Nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. All right. I'm looking for approval minutes from the committee of the whole from September 11th 2023 Moved and seconded all those in favor or any discussion on those minutes Seeing none all those in favor Chair votes aye all opposed Eyes have it Nobody for public forum already We are going to talk about I am number five our own number 51 dash 23 dash 24 by city plan commission to whom was referred direct referral Our own number 45 dash 23 dash 24 by finance directors submitting capital improvements program requests for the years 2024 through 2028 Referring the CIP requests to council this will lay over Kailin's grab a few Small little presentation. This will be our opportunity to ask questions to all the department heads that are here tonight Dr. Krueger Thank you. I do have two slides of my overview for tonight. So it's really short I just wanted to give an update on the budget timeline and the goals for today's meeting Tonight, of course, we are reviewing the capital improvement requests as all the rest mentioned those are Available have been available online. And so we want to make sure we're going over those and any questions that you may have Next week on October 23rd That will be the opportunity for this body to make any changes to the preliminary budget before the final version is Submitted to council for approval I will also point out that administrator Bradley's first day is next Monday. So he will have the Pleasure of coming to this meeting next week and helping with the finalization of the budget Additionally on November 6th, there will be the public hearing for the budget and the adoption of the final budget as Recommended from this body hope to have that that night So the goals for tonight for the committee of the whole is to gain an understanding of the 2024 to 2028 capital improvement plan requests. I will point out that usually the 2024 requests are what we would be focusing on because that is what's going to be included in the budget that comes back next week The 2025 through 2028 requests Those are more for planning purposes and to make sure that the council is aware of what items are coming down the line so that we can a plan plan accordingly The goal other goal I suppose is that we receive the committee's guidance so that we can come to Get some expectations For both myself and administrator Bradley on his first day to make sure that what we bring forward next week is in the Most final version is that we can I do have an asterisk here and I want to just Request from the committee that if you do have any changes that you are hoping to see on the budget next week What what I would request is that you contact myself and the mayor in order for us to help you draft Your change in a way that allows it to actually be voted on next week So we can help you with the structure of how that needs to be because that has been an issue in the past So we just ask that you make sure to contact us as soon as you can just to make sure we can help you with that All right. Thank you director Krueger. Do we have any questions on the? Cip budget we've had it since September 26th already all their parola You please tell me if this is not the right it is it is only partially relevant In relation to what director Krueger just said to send possible changes or asking for changes via Directly So I then I need clarification on how again How we are going to vote on the budget that we're going to vote item by item. So should I send my Request or opinion or concerns item by item Sure. So unless the chair of this committee changes how we are planned to go forward with it next week The intention is there is a preliminary budget that will be out there an updated version will be coming out with any Recommendations or requests from this body tonight regarding the capital requests that have been presented From there we have the preliminary budget and your requests would be Let's say if you want to fund something you because we are currently balanced if you want to fund something We have to cut something else in the operating budget in order to do so So that's why I'm requesting that you ask for my assistance and the mayor's assistance in order to make sure that that is Structured in a way that can actually be voted on so unless the chair of All the rust decides to change and go line by line That was my intention and that was my understanding of how to proceed next week You're referring to the CIP and to the In the budget to I mean separately as well correct Correct. So both items will actually come forward next week again once we meet as a committee of the whole So each section will get voted on separately So we will have the capital improvements Program and the request that came from there and which ones you have approved That will get approved separately from the full budget if there are items that you change in the capital improvement program The first item that would be something that would then on the final version that goes to counsel on the November 6th would include those changes So there will be another opportunity to have those Somehow considered before November 6 Correct between this week and next Monday. It would be your chance to work with myself and the mayor. Thank you so much So I would just like also to reiterate that this meeting tonight is to ask questions You have on the CIP from the directors if you've had the opportunity to look at it We've had this since September 26 when director Krieger emailed all of us this Alrighty older Mitchell Apologize to everybody who has to remain present throughout this meeting in advance. I have maybe a few questions Just starting out generally and I'm happy to hand off to somebody else to speak a little bit I will get very bored of hearing myself quickly it looks like the Borrowing and the general size and scope of the plan just even if we focus on the 2024 year has Gone up quite a bit since last year's plan where in theory 24 items were somewhat projected out Obviously things change as time passes Was there a general reason for that? I guess I don't really know who to ask that directly I'm hoping to knock out some of my other questions, so I don't have to go item by item Sure, I can try my best at that. So the Request that you see tonight are all of the requests that were submitted Due to the fact that we don't have in a city administrator and we haven't gotten full council direction on what is request What would be supported in the capital plan? They are all included some of these may have been maybe struck out previously From a former administrator or through that process of working with the department heads I personally do not feel like it is my place or within the scope of my duties to make any decisions regarding the capital improvement plan And what is funded and what is not so that is why Everything got brought forward to you if there is a sense of the council that borrowing would be too high with what is in There currently that's something that I can work with and at least come up with some Suggestions on how to reduce the borrowing in order to accommodate the requests of the council So that is exactly the type of direction. I guess I'm looking for Thank you Good. I'll hand it off. All right Alder-Fulickie-Pineski. Thank you Just to follow up a little bit about that Is it possible for us to get the itemized what wasn't in it last year when we approved a five-year plan And what got put back in I would have to look at the documentation that I have available to me There were several meetings with department heads and the administrator at the time that looked at the Plans and kind of filtered through to get the final requests So I'm not sure but department heads might have information that that could back up some of the the request But I would have to dig into it a little bit So the document that we received for our capital improvements last year Is is it if I took that document and looked at 2024 and put them side-by-side Would I be able to see what got put in that wasn't there? Yes, so you would be able to see what was added Compared to what was in there. I actually when the request came in I did a very similar exercise to what you're discussing Where I was comparing what was previously requested when it got moved to just so I had notes And I'm more than happy to share those with you if that would be helpful and with anybody who requests that I would Appreciate that that would be very helpful Thank you All righty, do we have more questions Alder Mitchell? Okay, unfortunately now we just will go through them in order Based on order listed The first thing that caught my eye. I believe I remember the discussion for the uptown social gym a couple years back now Where? Construction costs were estimated at 600,000. I do see that that went higher now. I guess it was My understanding that we were hoping for fundraising on that project would she mind sharing with us What changed and what it would look like without that extra contribution because I did see that's coming from tax levy rather than Even geo bonding or anything sure happy to chime in and give some context so The agreement of the friends to fund the second phase of construction Predates my hiring We through our estimates I might pull Mike Wilmes up to to help me here But in our initial estimates, we thought the cost of the gym would be about six hundred thousand dollars that's what the friends had been planning for and We had quite a shock a few months ago when J. H. Hassenger, which is the contractor that did the first phase of construction They were requested to give an updated quote on what it would take to finish the gym and came back at $850,000. So we have been fundraising Fun some funds have been raised the friends are actually in a position Charitable charitable giving has gone up a lot in my time in this role Earned revenue is really where We've seen significant gains, which will probably surprise no one knowing that our membership has more than doubled So really where the position the friends are in is To plan on financing this phase of construction Director Krueger and I have had conversations about what that could look like the friends have actually gone out to solicit estimates for formal finance through local banking institutions have some options But maybe there's some sort of agreement that can happen between the friends in the city Prior to the former city administrator Leaving we were in the process of developing and a formal MOU that would clarify the role of the friends the role of The city and how those two organizations operate together that was never finalized So my hope with administrator Bradley coming on that that can be something that is on his long list of items to address but So basically the estimate for doing the gym is significantly higher than the friends were anticipating So despite success in fundraising Despite success in earned revenue increasing. We actually were in a meeting Mike Wilmes director Bebel and I with the architect and I was the one you know as they're asking Do you want X? Do you want Y? I was the one like hey guys We're getting really up there in terms of our estimates here And it was my colleagues in DPW that said maybe maybe there's an opportunity to ask for some additional support through CIP process so certainly not asking the city to take over the whole project the friends are happy to contribute where we can But just with the increased cost of this construction on this project Just asking for the city to help out a bit Thank you, you're welcome Won't keep going. Oh sure Nobody else is cute. You can keep going all you want In front of us at least in front of me when I sat down I there's a vehicle acquisition and replacement schedule One of the other items that popped out to me right away when I was looking through the proposed CIP And I'm guessing that is what this is in relation to was I have too many pieces of paper in front of me the motor vehicle fund section off the top of my head I want to say the figure in this plan for the Four-year period that overlapped the previous was about four Little under four and a half times what it was in the prior year Looked like the schedule of vehicles to be replaced had grown significantly What was behind that rather drastic shift? Rick Rick knife from our motor vehicle superintendent He should be able to provide some insight and background on it, but I but I can tell you you know since COVID the prices of vehicles has and equipment has skyrocketed in cost and Supply chain is a isn't isn't has been a major Factor in in acquiring equipment as well. So Rick if you'd like to expand more they'd be great Yes, in in years past We're going back. Let's say 20 years The motor vehicle usually spent about a million dollars a year on equipment back as far back as like 2004 So throughout the course of the years like the late 2000s and early teens We've spent a few years where we didn't buy any equipment and then previous administrations We're limiting our spending so so drastically that we're coming to a point now where it's almost not sustainable to keep Doing all the functions the citizens need with the equipment we have let's say What David was talking about as far as supply chain when a truck would go down It used to take a day or two to get the parts now. It's taking a couple weeks So if you've got multiple trucks down And it's taking a couple weeks and we get to like a snow a snow situation or a garbage situation We're getting we're dangerously close and not being able to complete those functions So we're at that's why we're asking for so much more to play catch up Get ourselves back to where we actually have a fleet that we can count on Thank you Alrighty, I'm gonna Have you key back in older Mitchell all their filiki Beneski? Thank you I Would like to go to the revenue portion and there are there's a line that says county state and federal grants 12.2 million 1.9 million 2.6 million 8.1 million We and then there's County sales tax. I don't see the portion that the county shares with the city for Streets is that not in a capital improvements or is it in the grants? Yes, that was Realized after this was published it was miscoded in the spreadsheet so that will be updated in the final version We do have an increase in funding from the county in the sales tax portion Okay, thank you Already older parola I would like to go back a moment to the gym So we here we have 850,000 but Is the 600,000 these includes the 600,000 that is Somewhat Guaranteed by the friends for the gym or not Yeah, so actually the request of the city is 250,000 to make up the difference so the friends are prepared to finance 600,000 for the renovation and I should share the friends have been financing And paying for additional things on top of that 600,000 Roughly 200,000 for furnishings at this point and there will be additional equipment needed But so the friends are ready to finance 600,000 and requesting 250 to make up that increased So then just a technicality. Why do we have 850 on the CIP? If we are if the city in this case, I'm not going to vote to have 850 So the entirety of the project will be paid by the city but reimbursed from the friends So in order for our budget to be the accurate numbers so that I can have purchase orders attached to it Needs to be the full amount So even if the project came forward and there was no request for city funds You would have seen it for 600,000 with a 600,000 dollar donation Offset revenue. Thank you so much. I have a Additional question about the bridge so there is for 2024 is this on yeah For 2024 there is a 250,000 dollars for the breed the pedestrian bridge So I assumed the forecast is that for the plans That we mentioned before We need 250,000 dollars It's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in 2024 and an additional two hundred and fifty thousand and twenty five so the design costs and construction Document and plan specification construction estimates so the total design portions five hundred thousand roughly around 7% of the cost of the bridge Mm-hmm. Thank you All right Alder for lucky Pineski. Thank you very much Actually, the bridge was one of mine because we have a line that says design service and then in 2027 We have an eight million dollar expenditure for our bridge Okay Fire department we have ambulance Basically a quarter of a million dollars next year and then 400,000 the year after and then 430,000 the year after that so that's that's a concern to me we have a 1.7 million dollar engine this year and We have an eight million dollar construction this year So I would like the chief to talk us through what's going on with the fire department. Yeah, glad to thank you so that for to answer your first question with the ambulance the 263,000 and change for 2024 is To finish the payment that we started if you recall Due to our ambulances breaking down. I came to council several several months ago And you will prove that so we paid some of the funds from last year And now we have to finish paying it out of 24. So that's what that 263 Ambulances as director Bebel has mentioned. We're no different the Supply the cost the chassis everything has gone up. So Amlics is used to cost to two years ago 350 300 and now By 2026 they're going to be in the 400s and then as we continue down the road, they're going to be more expensive So the the ambulances in 25 and 26 will round out our fleet The quints that you mentioned for 1.7 million if you recall that we've been trying to get the truck ordered to replace our Vehicle our oldest vehicle and Unfortunately the supply if they're it's three to four year lead time to build if we don't Order it and purchase it in 24 and it was on the docket for 26th originally I'm going to be in a world of hurt in about three years because it's going to be three to four years to build So if we were to wait for 26 That's why I'm asking to order it now. It won't get here till 26 But we have to pay for it. So that's why we're asking for the funds in 24 And then you mentioned the station three construction So if you recall when we first started this and presented it last year and the year before This just like director Bebo had the design of the the walk bridge the pedestrian bridge We paid for the design for the architect study and all and this six million this year and 24 and six million in 25 is to split the cost over two years and to get that station three headquarters Built again. It's not ADA compatible The bathrooms are the single multi-head bathrooms that are not gender neutral There's many many things we have sewage coming in the kitchen, which is not healthy We have leaks coming in through the every single floor of our station. So It's it's in dire need and our generator is dying and we can't we have to have an emergency generator Otherwise, we can't open the doors or respond. So all these things are failing all at once and Yeah, let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you all they're Mitchell. Thank you, sir find the spot on the list the next item I had was the comprehensive plan and zoning and I know there was discussion there's been discussion for quite a while about a complete overhaul of the zoning code modernization making it a bit more Workable and readable. I know the comprehensive plan comes up as well I guess the last not the last I'd heard because we talked about this in city plan Commission recently but Prior to the last few months. It was my understanding that there wasn't a need to go outside for the comprehensive plan and It looks like we're looking at 200,000 from tax levy this coming year in 24 and then projected 50 the year following Yes, my questions would be two part The first thing is it appropriate that these two are combined into one item or would it make more sense for them to be? separate requests and then I Guess an explanation as to what a comprehensive plan that we are paying for What value that is going to provide that we are not currently enjoying? So as you stated our comprehensive plan is way out of date. It's it's a requirement that we Of the state that we haven't a comprehensive plan in place our last plan was 2011 I believe and so it's it's way past its 10 year life So as far as doing that in-house We don't have capacity We're we just have no capacity to take that on I believe that the That we have gone out to bid once we're planning to re-bid that as well To be able to find a consultant to help us write that as far as separate eagum We certainly could we didn't know exactly what the price tag would come in it so I guess it was just our way of kind of giving ourselves some cushion there to to make sure that we could the comprehensive plan being the priority today for the 2024 year Thank you Do you have more questions Alder Mitchell always there you go floor is yours Can you hold on for one second? I most certainly can all right? We'll come back to you all their flicky panaski Thank you I just wanted to say the comprehensive plan is Significant for development because grants are not given unless you have a comprehensive plan and they're they're savvy to the fact that ours is out of date the other is We we have worked with the strategic plan, which is different than the comprehensive plan So I would like my colleagues not to confuse those two and then I do have another question and it's The Boots and sports complex development and We've got over five years. We got a total of three quarters of a million It's on page four Can you talk to me about what we're spending a hundred thousand and two hundred and fifty thousand and a hundred thousand and two hundred thousand on to Rector Bebal It's under the parks and forestry. Yes, I mean I'll speak a little bit to it, but then I Joe Curlin here from Parks and Forestry is also available we've been working with the Lakeshore United Soccer Group and the for the long-term development and use of this city property, which was gifted to the city as For recreational use only so part of it is is that we've just put in some funding primarily I believe This is from the the park impact fee that we would use some of the funds to help with development of some of the Areas that could be beneficial to all residents such as future playground Some parking lot improvements for accessibility. There's talking about future trails That could be incorporated into this development that could be used for hiking jogging And so forth around the complex. So there's not a specific exact Project other than next year. I believe Joe and if Joe would like to speak upon this I think we're looking at helping with the asphalt paving of the parking lot to Start that process Thank you Yeah, I really don't have much to add to the opening bids just to get a base course in of the picture that you You've seen that was turned in For the parking lot so then part of that hundred thousand to be the paving of that parking area for next year Then some of the sidewalks and and walkways that would connect to that Any other questions? Holder Mitch. No. Yeah other Mitchell Thank You chair Continuing through I Was looking at the streets schedule because capital improvements every time this comes up that We've been saying for however many years now that that is our focus. I always like to see that we're Continuing to include all the projects we had if not finding opportunity to add more I Notice that this is labeled differently this time and I will admit I am not familiar. What is Could somebody please answer what complete streets? means beyond just the blurb that is in here regarding The development of a policy yes, I learned Mitchell. I'd be happy to complete streets is is a Concept that is really being advocated by the DOTs and the Federal Highway Administration as well as Transportation planners that when we're looking at road networks. It's just not about the car anymore multimodalism thinking of the pedestrian thinking of the bicyclists thinking of other Citizens that are let's say mobility challenge transit is another key factor in this. How do we accommodate transit? bus bus stops and and other other types of infrastructure that it takes a holistic approach to Designing their streets so what we're looking at is when we talk about it's just to be an asphalt resurfacing program or fixing the streets program We're looking to expand that and not when we fix the street We look at the other aspects of the street as well to make Larger improvements to that network that benefit a larger portion of our population The the policy will be Shortly coming as well to the this Common Council and it's really a guiding principle and philosophy that once we adopt It will be very helpful for us to have that Policy in place for us to then secure future funding from other Agencies such as the Department of Transportation at the state and federal level Thank you Alder flicky Pineski. Thank you I'm I'm going to cue on Motor vehicles There's a motor vehicle fund for 1.8 million I am remembering that this council started a program to lease motor vehicles is that Included in this 1.8 million. Is that what this line is about or is that an Ongoing expense and we don't even see it in capital improvements That's correct. So at that the lease programs an ongoing expense to our motor vehicle operating budget We this is capital acquisition and in the lease program is really for what I would it it's our light equipment pickup trucks smaller types of vehicles up to About a one ton dump truck that we have in our fleet The the 1.8 is for what we call is our heavy heavy equipment That would be a tandem or tri axle dump truck with a plow and salter It could be an excavator. It could be a front-end loader. It would could be a bucket truck a street sweeper So it's that heavy type of equipment that this 1.8 is used to acquire Okay, but I still see one ton dump truck a pickup truck with an extended cab And it's not part of the motor vehicle fund and it's not part of motor vehicle replacement And then I add in the police that has sports utilities Sports utility vehicles and unmarked vehicles. So I'm looking at they're going to have million dollars here in addition to What we spend on Other motor vehicles that accurate well, that's correct. The motor vehicle fund is strictly a public works fund It does not fund police fire vehicles or other department vehicles within the city Okay, thank you Alder pro I Have this question each each every year actually and so you have to forgive me please to ask that again We have two hundred thousand dollars per year. I believe For the next four years for sidewalk maintenance so the question is How many miles or how much of sidewalk we maintain with two hundred thousand dollars and Um, what is the percentage of sidewalks we have that we are actually able to maintain? That's an excellent question. We I would say we have probably if you I'd say we probably have a right around between a 325 to 350 miles of sidewalk within our community Typically our sidewalk budget for many many years has been only a hundred thousand That's not that we're running through that weights far too far too quickly costs have gone up and So what we're proposing is at least two hundred thousand Still at two hundred thousand dollars It's in terms of sidewalks in terms of replacing We're not able to Replace all the sidewalks within this program within a hundred year period So we we we maintain we do it on a a complaint basis as well as we have inspection zones that we that we Routinely go out and will target certain areas of the city Is part of our program and responsibility? sidewalks however do last Longer than than what I would say street networks just because they don't have the pounding of traffic And and so forth so in a lot of in a lot of cases we have will have sidewalks that are 75 years old in many cases Nevertheless, it's still there's a tremendous amount of infrastructure and value In this community when you talk about our sidewalk network Any other questions all the pro Well It's always to me It's always again if we want to improve Pedestrian mobility in our city and we say that in so many ways right even the DOT as the director said is trying to force on us the Positive concept of complete street which makes absolute sense and includes sidewalks includes everything else includes bike lanes and so on so I'm I'm trying to convey that I think we should make more of an intentional effort to focus on pedestrian mobility not just catching up or Maintaining at the minimum and so I'm trying to understand how to how that can be Accommodated or changed I understand that even increasing hundred thousand dollars would not make a big dent I'm trying to rather convey that perhaps we have to address the program of sidewalks with an aggressive approach at least as aggressive as we do with major project of the streets Thank you Dr. Bebo and and I in a I I would agree with that assessment and One of the things that we've been able to do as well in addition to this funding is use some of the street funding When we do projects we upgrade all of the corners for instance to the new ADA handicap accessibility standard Which is a much more accessible grade. We add the detectable warning plates at all the intersections So there's been some great improvements with that at the intersections for mobility where we come across intersections that don't even have An existing ramp today, so we've been able to really focus on all of our projects as well So that that's a a key factor in this as well. So I think I'm not I'm here to I'm here I echo hear what you're saying and I and I and we're we're we agree with everything you're saying it It's a balancing act of how do we fund this all together? And I think that's some of the philosophy that we're trying to move towards is Balances these needs of all the projects not just focusing on on streets as as an automobile in other words Alder Mitchell Thank You chair. Hey All their flaky Bonesky mentioned the police SUVs earlier I just wanted to note that if memory serves we specifically exempted police department vehicles from that leasing program and I Think that was on the basis of the wear and tear that go on vehicles and perhaps the mileage Just general comments from me were through my list I know our focus is always on just the next year in the plan This one I guess covers a bit more than that because even if we're not immediately going to be spending a borrowing for those future years We are still stating this is somewhat consistent with what we plan to enact in the future Looking at the chart on page three That goes over the net debt issued in that year the net debt paid and what our outstanding debt is We are going very quickly from ending this year with 59 million dollars of outstanding debt to a projected 95 in 2028 If I did my math correctly 60% of the state limit puts us around 115 million as the city's policy for its debt limit and It seems like the current plan we have without any filtering is going to be sprinting to that at which point it Could leave the city in a situation in the future where it does not have the access to the capital It needs to address needs that are coming up at that time If the question was direction from the body, I believe this is here for discussion only so we probably can't actually give any formal direction but Looking at the numbers on the paper in front of us. It looks like there's no option But to try to find a way to pair back Somehow so that we can actually consistently support this plan Throughout the years that is most likely all for me tonight. Thank you. All right Dr. Krieger just one item of note on that table that you are talking about we because we have we could build to assist with the Understanding of the table because there are The payments that are included right now don't have the full estimates for what our payments would be of the new debt issuance So our debt wouldn't compile as high as what is showing in the table But it definitely would be higher. So I I understand your concern and I will make note of that. Thank you All righty Alder cells are Alder Mitchell, thank you for that Pointing that out. That was good information for us to think about but I want to go back to what Alder Pirello was sharing about the sidewalk Director Bevel is there any possibility in that? 3.9 of that complete street that is You know we can put a portion of that to towards sidewalks You know as you're talking about sort of the completion of the project I'm just understanding if there's a percentage breakdown or do you have or does that not possible? Yes, it should the short answer is yes, and especially on those streets where we're doing a Reconstruction where we're doing curb and gutter. We look at the sidewalks We don't replace every single sidewalk, but we'll concentrate on those sections that Let's say there's some bad panels within the section of street We're working on we can focus and get those repaired and get them to match and be Upgraded in other words. We wouldn't do a complete sidewalk removal along with the street But we would fix those sidewalks to get them to the level that is necessary for them to be quality sidewalk in other words Can I I'm gonna follow up with that another question? So you they are what's included in that 3.9 is about complete projects For the new ones we were not you can't allocate any of that towards repairing of the current sidewalk repair needs that we need We would look at the sidewalks adjacent to these projects with with on those streets and help with these projects Repair the sidewalk on these street networks that are being proposed In other words so that would be in it in addition above and beyond the 200,000 in other words So we're we're we're we're looking at the concentration in terms of like I mentioned all the crosswalks Get upgraded on these projects But then we could also look at you know certain panels and getting the sidewalk sections along these street networks To a to a good standard as well So we can make that a priority when we're looking at these new streets and what's around there That's in that and that's part I would encourage you to also think about Tracking that right so as you're updating these streets really think about how many of these sidewalks we've done so that when we come back to this budget meeting We can say out of those 200 and what did you say 230 a mile? That's insane, but um, you know you say this year we repaired 50 miles of sidewalk Yeah, that we could definitely track Track track the number of of square footage or miles of sidewalks that we that we repair as well as This this goes right along of what we're talking about with the complete streets philosophy is that It's not just about the street. We ought to be looking at the sidewalk We ought to be looking at you know urban forestry putting putting putting forest that putting trees back within these areas Also looking at street lighting. Is it appropriating this neighborhood? Is it not? Let's let's take a look at the holistic approach Great. Thank you All there for lookie Pineski. Thank you This is a little bit of of the same sort of thing that that my colleague on finance is looking at I'm looking at a trend line and and how For example this budget what we see in 2024 May or may not be What we looked at when we looked at the capital improvement plan last year So I think that's pretty important because I do appreciate a trend line. I also don't appreciate when a trend line goes like this So so my my question is as We approve the 2004 the 2024-2028 capital improvement program Will we see the same numbers? perhaps ingested for inflation in 2025 Because I don't think we saw the same numbers this year So how does this? How does this play out? How does this work? And I know we always haven't had a five-year trend line And I do appreciate it. So how does it how does it work moving forward? So I may or may not have an answer for this because Finance doesn't have any capital improvement projects So I can only speak on what's been turned into me throughout this process I will Say that I believe that departments have submitted the full request that they feel that they need And I'm hoping that they included those in the in the future years as well, and I but from what information I've received I believe that is the case so I don't feel that it would be another High spike in the future years but I would have to defer to my Colleagues the other department heads who have these projects to make sure that what I am saying is in fact, true Thank you Any other questions all their Already all their Decker Chief the chief had something to add for you. Yeah, thank you chair So for the fire department's example We couldn't our quaint was in the 2026 plan for 2026 replacement But because it's a three to four year build out And we can't put money and commit money from councils in the future The only recourse in order to get it ordered by 2026 would be to have to put it now. So we moved ours up We also took some things off from this you know for 2024 The other example I can give you is we you know due to all the lake activity at everything since I've been here the dive team The rescue swimmer program. We've never had a boat We had something Back in the day that really I don't know even the qualifies as a boat, but we had something and so now I put in for a boat in 2028 I believe or somewhere around there Again because anticipating future needs development that kind of stuff. So so that is a change But as things come up, you will see the fire department not request as much because we're trying to spread things out in our plan But because of the way the ambulance is and delay and chassis and all that it bunched up again So there was really nothing, you know that we could do to avoid that But as our when things keep getting kicked down the can down the road as as the saying goes It's difficult to not spread things out because all of a sudden it bunches and that's that's where we're in today and public works This has been a great discussion and I think you have some excellent questions. I think Unfortunately this is this is of you know a result of Timing we have a lot of our projects especially when it comes to buildings and other infrastructure if you look back We talk about the headquarters 50 years old the municipal service building. It's 60 years old the transit building another 50 year old bill a lot of the Infrastructure that we we have Existing today was all built in the 70s late 60s So now we're at the point in timing wise that we either have to make significant capital investment in these facilities Or even look to build new to meet the new standards that we're facing in in this world So it's not that You know these weren't unplanned it's it's just a timing as well as The way the economy has has really hit us after COVID we've seen tremendous increases in costs of equipment materials and contracting When we looked at our street program we did a presentation back in 2013 Talking about a comprehensive street improvement program the back in 2013 the value what we should have been spending every year starting in 2013 was four million dollars a year That's what you see today and given where we are with our with our with our pricing and Our value of money what we're able to purchase. We're probably doing less streets than we were doing in 2013 so It's the other factor is for many many years The prior councils and prior administrations. We only had borrowing of two million dollars a year For a city this size and a budget our size That wasn't necessarily sustainable and I think we're starting to see some of the effects of Delaying projects as the chief mentioned kicking it down the road Eventually, it's going to get expensive and we're going to have to pay for this Thank You director Bebo Alderdecker He had to go back this but this is on the we were talking about the sidewalks that that that money Does that come back to us in assessments? It does a portion it we typically we'll have anywhere from five in some cases with sidewalks Being expensive if they're over I believe five thousand they have up to ten years to pay on Assessment so we use a special assessment fund as well to help Use some of that funding to fund some of this so the sidewalk doesn't necessarily all have to be general borrowing in other words Any other questions? Seeing none that that will lay over for next week I am number six resolution number 73 dash 23 dash 24 by Alderpersons Mitchell and Fulikie Pineski establishing the 2024 budget Appropriations and the 2023 tax levy for use during the calendar year and that will lay over as well Our next meeting is October 23rd 2023. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion made in second all those in favor all those opposed chair votes aye eyes have it We're adjourned at 752. Thank you everybody. Have a good night