 Okay, so welcome to Wednesday, October 12th, Community Safety and Social Justice Committee meeting pursuant to chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. Nope, in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. So again, thank you and welcome to everyone. We have public comment time right now. Wait, one sec, do we have the agenda up? I never received a copy of the agenda and all of those things. Oh. Were those sent out? Yeah, let's see. Okay, yeah, I never got one. I think I saw something. Right. Yeah, let me see if I have it. But at least if we can have it up. Yeah, yeah. Right, let's see, hopefully, nope, that's not it. One moment. I have it up just trying to figure out which on my desktop it is. So just give me a moment. So many windows. Okay. All right, so the meeting packet, I'll just, yeah, scroll through it like that. Yeah, I never got it. I just went through my things again. So that might be something to visit, like how are we to make sure that folks have the meeting packet? You know? Yeah, so this is still the wrong thing. One, go ahead and oh, there it is, finally. Right, so I think that things have not been running as smoothly because Jen's been away and so Angela and I have been splitting the responsibilities. So I will take responsibility for the packet, not being sent out, but I thought that Angela had sent out a link to the meeting and the packet to everyone. But I'm sure that that's was an error on our part if it did not reach you. Okay, thanks. Okay, so this is the meeting agenda. At least some of it, I can scroll down a bit more. There we have it. I know the only thing I've seen it on it. Yeah, it's just joined by phone. That's what we see. Oh, my screen sharing is paused, sorry. No, let's try that again. Can you see it now? Yep. Okay, sorry. So just give you a moment to see what we have up for tonight. Let's see. So public comment is right now and since I am showing the agenda, I can't go back easily to see who is in the audience, but I did see that there were 14, I guess, and that includes us. All right, so there are nine attendees and Earl has his hand up. For public comment, because he'll be reporting out later. Yeah, so no other hands are up, but we can wait a second to see if anyone else has, I don't see any other hands raised for public comment. Okay, and just so the public knows, we have public comment at the start of the meeting and then we revisit public comment at the end of the meeting. I don't see it listed here in our agenda, but we normally include it. So I'm going to normally include it in this agenda. So just so the public knows, we have public comment now and then before adjourning, we'll have public comment again. Okay, all righty. So no hands up still? No hands up. All righty. So member reports and that's for our group besides, again, Cress will be reporting out and DEI will be reporting out. This is for the members of the CSSJC. Allegra, no? I'm just wondering if any, I was unable to attend the Know Your Rights training that was put on this past weekend, but I'm wondering if any members who were there would be able to give a brief update as to how that went. That would be great. Yes, Ms. Pat. So I attended, it was on Sunday for an hour and a half or almost two hours. I thought it was very informative for me. We had also like breakout discussion. I'm really very impressed that our young people organized this with other groups joining. So it was a very robust training and discussion. We didn't make the discussion taped, but the training itself was taped. So I really thank the group from Boston that did the training and all the co-sponsors, the human rights commission, Poku, our group, the fund, I missed the fund and not a group that I'm not remembering, but I thought it was worthwhile. Great. So you say it's recorded. Is that recording going to be available upon request or are they going to put it up on YouTube? Good question. I don't know, I don't have answer to that. I can reach out to Sunrise Amherst Group. I think it's a training that our town should seriously consider inviting that group. They did an awesome job. As I thought myself, I learned one or two things at that training that I didn't know before. So not just for youth. Yeah, Miranda writes and stuff. Yeah, mm-hmm. Okay, so for adults and young people, you recommend the training? Absolutely, yeah. Yep. All right, thank you so much. Any, one else from our group? I also attended them and I'll echo what Ms. Kat is saying. First child training. And everybody can hear me? No, we can't hear you. I was just gonna say that I'll echo what Ms. Kat was saying and that it was a free versus self training for both youth and adults and everybody involved. Great. And as far as another report out, the Human Rights Commission is out hosting a Latinx Heritage Month event this Saturday on in Kendrick Park at 11 o'clock to three o'clock. So what should we expect? Is it speakers? Is it? Yeah, we'll have a couple of speakers. We'll have performances, food, activities from the school. They'll be putting on lotaria and different other types of activities. So it's a family fun event type of deal. Great. Thank you for doing that. And thank you, Ms. Pat and Human Rights Commission, Phillip, for y'all sponsoring and doing the training. So I guess I'll just chime in too, because again, it's support of our children, which is the ABC Walk 2 is happening on Saturday, starting around 9.30 and it goes, it's in the town clock, like the town, what do you guys call that? Right in front of the town hall, town common. Town common, yeah. Yeah, so 9.30 a.m. for the walkers and then I think 10.30 or 10 o'clock for the runners. But obviously it's a great program that it's supporting and fundraising. So myself, my son and a bunch of other folks, obviously are all gonna be there to support a better chance program on Saturday. So then since we'll be there, then we can just stay for y'all. We'll go to Kendrick Park and go to Yorva, right? Come on by if you're gonna be running or walking, we'll have food. Exactly, maybe I'll tell Tim, my brother, to make an announcement, because then you can maybe get a lot of those people to go over to Yorva. That'd be great. That's awesome. So Saturday's already planned. Well, there are a few more things happening. Oh, okay, yeah, there's more, there's more. You know, you can just start at the ABC Walk and you can head on down whatever the main street is actually called to Kendrick. So I know actually the teachers union is having a rally on the common at 10 to talk about their living wage needs. And then also the fire department is having an open house family friendly event. So lots of safety events, lots of community events, lots of social justice events happening this Saturday. That's fabulous. What a town, what a town. Good stuff, good stuff happening. Good stuff, any others? Okay, well, thank you all for that. And it's so good to see that the members of the CSSJC are so involved in the town in that way. So thank you. Okay, so number four on the agenda is Cress. And we have an update from Earl Miller. Yeah, are you gonna invite me to the meeting? Oh, yes, Pam. So Pam's getting the hang of this alone. No worries. Earl is in, when he asked the question, could you guys stand here? Oh yeah, so I'm gonna stop sharing now and let's see, we'll be able to see you hopefully. It does not show me as a participant. I think you're letting me talk from the audience. That's why you don't see my video. I can, okay, I'm not the best looking. My voice is my power anyway. There we go. Yeah. Okay, we still don't see your video, but we see that it's you. So there should be a button that either Pam or Phillip can. Yay, there you go. Yeah, I did, yeah. Alrighty. There we go. So I can just start with the report. We, I got some notes from folks to address, I think most of the questions folks had. So I can just go through that and you can stop me when there's a question. Does that make sense? Sure. So this report is from September 6th to September 30th. We're still collecting some data from the last couple of weeks and we're looking to improve our process. So our first month, our total engagements were 1,788. Our first week, we're 507 engagements between Hampshire college's new student orientation, meeting all the departments, going to all the schools and then walking downtown to all the businesses, as well as just greeting folks. We really made an effort that first week to be as out as we could our second. So because you're explaining this and you're going fairly quickly, when you talk about engagements, you're talking about going to meet people in the community, is that correct? Nope, talking about calls, going to see folks kind of all the ways in which we would see people. We'll get more into the specific type of calls. Okay, what engagement is? That's what I was trying to understand. Thank you. It's a wide net. Okay. So our second week, we saw 637 folks from the block party, the high school fire and the folks we engaged with around that. We had a call to Atkins, as well as that week, we really started to see a pick up in some mental health engagement. Third week was 320 engagements. Our big outside of our regular calls was a UMass safety event. Our fourth week was 324, with a four eject cold to sack tabling. It's important to note with those numbers, those first two weeks were students coming back. And so we really did make an effort to meet them as they arrived in town. Amherst residents served. So this is individual calls. Obviously a call might involve more than one person is 278. And we had one call from dispatch. And I can get deeper into that call as we move down. The issue with dispatch is a technical one. We're still figuring out the mechanics of getting into the system, but dispatch is identifying calls for us. So as that comes up, notable interactions with businesses, we had a really nice engagement with the typewriter store downtown, working collaboratively with the bid. We were at the mobile market at Mill River. And then we did some conflict de-escalation for some local businesses. Notable interactions with other places in the town. The survival center was incredibly helpful in one issue we had from a single parent. I'll get more into that call below, but I just wanna highlight that the survival center has been incredibly responsive to us. The Amherst High School fire, we were asked to be there by the fire department. So appreciation for Chief Nelson for thinking of us. We were engaged with the library around a bullying incident. And then we were able to support Craig's door around an unfortunate event that they happened that I'm not able to share much more on. Our types of calls right now, we're doing a fair amount of wellness checks, mostly for seniors, but we have had a couple where parents of students who've arrived in town have been concerned. Generally those are just a young person, one was at the biggie. Mental health calls, those are being driven often by neighborhoods. So we're finding that when we come in in the morning, we often have one or two neighbors from different parts of town waiting for us, asking us to come support a neighbor. We're always glad to go do that. Just to clarify, one piece of the mental health calls that we currently aren't able to take are calls that might result in a section 12. We do not have the legal authority, nor frankly do we think it would be within our bailiwick to be removing people forcibly from the community under any circumstances. Nonviolent school calls, this is just a list of calls. I'll kind of stop if we've taken some nonviolent school calls. The fire was an example of that non-trust pass vagrancy. Actually at the end of the business today, we were able to support some folks who were struggling to leave a spot downtown and causing some issues and we're experiencing some issues. And so we were able to mediate that community engagement. Obviously we wanna make sure we're continuing to get our name out, assist the fire department, assist other PDs where we have a good working relationship with the Amherst College PD, with the UMass PD. We haven't had to deploy that outside of one situation in which we went to provide someone, a town resident who was challenged on campus with some additional resources. So assist citizen, I would say this is probably our biggest call if you kind of combine that with the wellness checks right now, assist business, this includes town departments, Crest citizen transport. This mostly comes up, there are some folks with some, an example, we helped the gentleman get to the VA to do his orientation for them to get signed up for benefits. We've taken people to social security, grocery shopping, those sorts of things. Administrative, that's one of the time I go on a call just so folks know where we are and then follow up, which I just wanna highlight that one of the real key components of what we're doing is the ability to follow up. So not just to engage with someone in a difficult moment, but to come back the next day. We currently have four or five people who are seeing on, probably two who were seeing on a daily basis, the other three were seeing once a week. We consider that some of our limited case management ability. And then miscellaneous calls as determined by dispatch, Mike Curran has been a part of this process since the implementation committee. And so he's really looking for calls that might not neatly fit into one of those, but still might result in us going out. What you won't see is noise complaints. And I know that that is a pain point for folks. I just want folks to know that that's not a never thing. We anticipate being able to start taking some noise complaints in January. It's really actually a capacity issue, taking noise complaints on while the schools are in session would really be a challenge as far as training folks. There isn't a nice ramp up. So we're thinking that if starting in January will allow us to have a month where students aren't on campus for us to really kind of scale up to that. Our current hours are nine to five Monday through Friday. Those also will change in January and we will go from nine a.m. to 10 p.m. Monday through Sunday. Part of that is staffing, the ability to supervise past 10 p.m. is limited right now. So this is kind of the upper bounds of what we can do given our current capacity. And I know that that is unsatisfying if there was a way around that I promise I would do it. So that's our goal is the second week, January 7th, which is Saturday, is when we intend to start these new hours. Responders will be working for 10 hour shifts with three days off on a rotating basis in which all responders are in on Fridays. That allows us to train and do in services. And we know that training is a really key component. We're in really active talks with other municipalities. So we had a meeting with Denver last week. It was really nice, their operations director, her sister went to UMass Amherst. So she knew the town a little bit, which was always fun. We're looking to really network with those other towns, including Minneapolis, Albuquerque, Dayton, and Seattle obviously around a responder exchange program so that we can start to really allow them to see what the work looks like in other areas and what sort of really impressive programming other folks are doing. It's a real learning collaborative and we're lucky to be a part of it. A couple more things. Racial data is something that we're collecting currently, one of the things we're struggling with is folks don't, there often isn't a neat space to ask folks for it. So we're collecting that data much easier from folks who we have ongoing engagement with, where it's funny that today being a good example of the folks we've met with were in distress and we don't wanna get into a game of guessing people's racial identity because we just don't believe that's fair. So certainly we're working right now, Minneapolis has a really impressive program around collecting racial data in which they have tablets with them or they ask people to answer some data that, so the responder would never see it. It automatically is, their identifying data is removed and it's just collected. That's worked with them particularly in their Somali population. So we're looking at that as a way to collect that. Community outreach efforts, one of the really nice ways to meet seniors in town has been helping out with the meals on wheels the seniors do. We also find that to be a really nice contact point for if there needs to be wellness checks. An example of that is in the last two weeks, we dropped off meals on a Friday when we showed up the next workday, the meal was still there. That queued us up that we need to identify where that person was. Thankfully, both people had just, one person we had really been working to get into a nursing home. He is in that nursing home now. The other person had unfortunately had a fall but they are safe and we did provide some outreach to the hospital with them. Anne Whalen has been really helpful. The folks there have been really kind to us and particularly a lot of the folks there who were formerly homeless have been offering us lots of techniques on where are people staying at this time of the year, how to approach them in a way that's meaningful for them. Upstream regular outreach is something we really wanna make kind of our own. So we're working with the vet folks, DMH, DDS, basically anybody who does this work we had our first social services meeting last week. We had about 13 people there. So a good turnout from both state, local and regional supports and we anticipate that being a monthly meeting in an ongoing way. Department updates, we have one responder position open. We're being really thoughtful about filling that position. We believe we built a really good culture. There's a sense of trust among the responders. So making sure that we find someone who can hold to our values and understands that unarmed work doesn't mean unskilled or untalented, which is a really nuanced way to think about it. Oftentimes people think of the weapon as a tool as opposed to being unarmed as a tool in and of itself. We hired an implementation manager. She's in the audience today. Her name is Kate Shapiro. She comes to us from the Department of Mental Health. She was a case manager in Hampshire County. She's familiar with many of the folks we are currently working with and has existing relationships with them. She's already started to write grants. We're looking to join a community of learning with some other municipalities. In addition to the Harvard Kennedy School community we already participate in. Really, we're finding that we get better much quicker when we're able to discuss things with our counterparts and learn from their mistakes as opposed to making them all ourselves. And we are in the final stages of establishing an MOU at the Amherst schools. That was something that the school board requested. I actually just want to appreciate them for asking some really, really good questions that we think we have some answers to but we will be meeting with that school board again before we finalize it to hear their feedback again. So that is kind of the report piece. If you're interested, I'd love to give you a couple of cases we've had just so you can kind of see what the work is looking like. So I know this is a lot of information quickly. We tried to make it slower but there isn't really a way to explain what we're doing very slowly. It's the pace of it is pretty fast. So we're needed to make shifts very regularly. So real, I'd love to hear that but I want to also make space for our members in case they have questions of what you've presented thus far. Absolutely. So I see Ms. Pat's hand is up and Deb, so Ms. Pat. So, all thank you so much for the presentation. I am excited that, you know, grass is off the ground running and I liked, you know, what I heard tonight. It kind of a mirror some of what CSWG had envisioned. I have some questions for you. And that is in terms of staffing. I mean, staffing shortage is nationwide. I am struggling too in my company. So I get that. When you say nine to five currently, how many staff are on duty at the same time? Do you have, you know, I want to know more about that. I also have comment on the MOU with the school committee. That's the area that CSWG really got one, like we didn't discuss resource officers in our school. Yep. So I can answer those two questions or answer the question. So with staffing, we've been really, really fortunate. Part of the strategy when I first came on was Deb, the event you all did at Mill River in Phillip. That was a huge, we actually hired two people off of just going there that day, the Gough Park event. We're finding that we're really looking for kind of enthusiastic consent from folks. We don't want people who are just looking for a job. This won't be very fun for them. We're looking for folks who are committed to the value. So we have been really served by community members actually speaking to folks they know about the work. Introducing us to folks. Actually, Deb and Phillip, one of our, one of the responders who I think is maybe our most unusual candidate, but has shown just some real brilliance is Kenneth Michael, who we met there at the Mill River event. Not a traditional background, but has just shown such a natural talent for working with folks and particularly for folks who are working with folks. So we're really recruiting as hard as we can. We're working with all of the, the mass hire centers. We've gone to the universities. We will be presenting at HCC and GCC. And we're really kind of full press. We're finding this last position harder to fill because we don't have two months of training after it. So we really don't have that. We're finding this last position harder to fill because we don't have two months of training after it. So we really don't have the ability to hire someone super early in their learning curve at this point because they'll need to, to be in the work a little sooner. So we've worked with the fire department to develop a training program, but I'm really proud of that involves the person shadowing the teams as far as our, our regular day to day scheduling. The way we have it right now is two teams are out doing engagement. They're out of business. They're at the survival center. They're at, they're with people kind of talking about the program, eliciting feedback and just meeting folks. And we have found that that's been a real driver for us just to kind of visibility. And then we have one team that's ready to deploy. That's in the office. All those teams that are in the field are also able to deploy. So for example, the high school fire, we deployed two teams recognizing that we needed to provide as much resources as we could. And so that's, that's our current makeup. They're everybody like, like most public safety departments, everybody has kind of multiple responsibilities. So we have to carve out some time for report writing, which, which takes a fair amount of energy and time. We also have to really, as we're going out with folks and they're seeing things, we're reinforcing the training they've seen. So we have all of our trainers on contracts for executive coaching. If we need to bring them back, particularly with mental motivational interviewing, we found that to be really important with the schools. I just want to say, and we said this in the meeting with them. We don't have any intention of being school resource officers. We were talking about time limited individual circumstances. So an example that happened before the school year ended last year was there was a dispute at a bus stop. One of the parents felt uncomfortable with their kid going on the bus and if, and what the school could deploy kind of was limited. So the child would have missed the last week of school. Me and Kat Newman, our program assistant made a decision to, you know, with the, with the parents, not just consent, but, but gratitude to transport the kid to school every day so that they could finish up the school year. We were requested by Derek Shea. And it was a nice collaborative process. We didn't solve the problem, but we did get folks to the end of the year. And we still are in touch with that family. We were able to help them get into summer camps and some other things. So that contact was more with the parent. And what we see our role at the school is, is likely more serving parents who are struggling with, with either finding resources for the child or frankly, their own mental health, which is a challenge for many parents in town these days. So the MOU is speaks to that. We, we don't intend to replicate law enforcement in the big things or the small things. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Deb. All right. Thanks for all for that report. Obviously you all are doing a lot. Which I'm really excited to hear about. I guess I just need some, you know, more clarification on some of the things that, that you shared. And obviously making some points and, and regards to it. So one of the things you, you began talking about the racial data, but then you kind of, you know, talked about some other things. So do you have some data in terms of like, who are the people who are using this the most so that we can get a sense. Yeah. We have it. It's not. It is not ready for display right now. What I would say is we're seeing, you know, of the six calls we have, which are really kind of calls that required real follow up. That would have been nine of one cause. Four of the six were people of color. Okay. And, and then so how are these calls coming in? I guess, right? Because obviously when, you know, we were doing, we were conceptualizing this CSWG. We were conceptualizing this CSWG. We were conceptualizing them being able to have direct communication with, you know, with, what is it? What crest, right? And for them to be able to get this patched and things like that. So I guess how is it, how, how are they able to, you know, how do they know that you all are there? How do they get in touch with you all? That's a great question. It's one that we, we grappled with and probably didn't solve until we were about three days in it. It was pretty touch and go for a second. So the way it works right now is probably the easiest one is folks show up through the bank center. And they just show up for an in-person kind of unscheduled consult. We always try to have someone in the office for that. There have been maybe three days in the six weeks we've been out where we've had everybody deployed simultaneously. We try to avoid that unless absolutely necessary. So I have a phone. The admin folks, I have a phone. And then each responder team has a phone that they can take calls in directly. The idea being that we have a responder who speaks Spanish, folks want to speak directly to him. They have a, we have a shared voicemail and then each response team has their own voicemail that folks can call. Everybody's emails are set up. And frankly, I, I think, you know, I don't know if it's a pat on the back or something. I'll live through regret, but I think it's a good idea. I think, you know, I don't know if it's a pat on the back or something. I'll live through regret, but I think my cell phone number has circulated pretty widely. So that is, uh, that is actually a big driver of things. Um, you know, the survival center, someone who is in the, who's dealing with something will call me directly. Um, and we'll send a team over there. Um, and, and so that's, that's the main mechanism right now. We're working to set up an online, uh, place where people could send in, you know, for issues that don't require an immediate response, more kind of quality of life, uh, challenges with neighbors. Where folks can send things in and virtually, uh, send them in through, through email. Um, and glad to take any other, uh, thoughts on how folks might suggest that we really, what, one of the things we're realizing is there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no problem of having too, too many doors. We want folks to be able to get us any way they can. Um, and one of the ways that I'm glad that's really only been the last two weeks is folks stopping responders on the street to ask them to intervene in something. That's, um, that's something I hope will, will become a bigger driver that folks just recognize us and invite us in that way. Um, but it's really just started. Did that answer your question? Yeah. I mean, you know, I know it's still in process. Obviously, you know, this is going to be a continual conversation. So, um, you know, we'll continue to talk about that because one of the things too, and that'll be good to caption the data would be in terms of folks, like, you know, you just mentioned that there's someone that obviously speaks Spanish, but we know that there's a variety of different languages. So how are we outreaching to, uh, our populations that speak all the different languages that, that we speak, right? Um, so how are we outreaching to them so that we know that they know about press and that they feel comfortable to utilize press. Um, so are we putting out information in different mediums and ways? Um, and we know, you know, obviously online component, that would be great, but we know that a lot of that population that we're trying to reach, which are the marginalized population, which are the ones that are not going to be trusting really of press right until you build a relationship, are going to be the ones that are going to really want to know and want to be able to communicate in their own language to be able to connect to press. So, um, any ideas in terms of that, how that's going to take place? Yeah. So two to three days a week, they're, they're going into neighborhoods and just speaking to folks when they're outside, that's something we think will continue on permanently for folks who don't have phones or we're finally, we're meeting a lot of folks who are, aren't just homeless, but housing insecure, right? If you're struggling to pay your rent, the phone goes before the rent does. Um, and so being out there, um, you know, we're one of the things we're grappling with is, is social media and whether or not that's a thing we should do or shouldn't do. I think there's big pros and there's big cons. I'd really be interested in what, what the group thinks of that. Um, and it's actually a really divided thing. Uh, nationally, some do it and find it really helpful. Some do it and find it to be onerous. Some don't do it and, and just kind of don't have any info. So, um, I think that's one venue that probably could be big, uh, but I worry about, you know, it's just, it's, it's an, it's an artful form. Yeah. Yeah. Even though, like you said, right? It is the way that, that a lot of people are using it, especially our young people and especially if we want to, I'll reach the young people that may need crest. Um, it would be a good way to at least, um, you know, not to say you're going to be on all the platforms, but maybe start on one of the platforms that the young people are on and kind of tested like a pilot phase to kind of see how it goes and then kind of take it from there. Uh, but I think with this day and age, I mean, I don't know if there's any way around it, right? Not, not to use social media. It's just how do we use it to the best way possible to, to really engage in and be able to get people to come on board. We're getting a nice trickle of young people just by having candy in the office. So it's just like the candy, candy people, candy man, gotta feed them candy. You know, um, exactly. Um, but two really last quick ones is around, um, the vehicles, um, you know, whether you all have vehicles, um, because I know that that was either coming or something like that. And then lastly, so I'll let you answer that. But lastly, I am glad to hear that you all going to ramp up and hopefully be able to take in noise complaints because, um, that was part of what, um, CSWG was interested in. Is that anything that was, uh, non, you know, violent, non-criminal, um, that crest would, um, take care of and noise complaints will fall into that bailiwick. I mean, I do understand that obviously that might be a big chunk of, you know, to take in. However, um, hopefully you all will figure that out so that, um, you know, uh, you can get to that point to address them. I want to be super clear. I think my folks can handle it. We got very lucky. I think the, the talent of the folks we have, uh, I would put my team against any team in the country in terms of, um, the kind of depth of compassion they have. Our first call lasted five hours. Um, and they sat in someone's living room and just listened to a lot of pain, a lot of, uh, a black family struggling with aging at home, dealing with lots of systemic issues. Um, and we were able to resolve those, but that's not the thing I'm most proud of. The thing I'm most proud of is that five hours that they sat there and they gave them every bit of attention they wanted until they were done. The vehicles, um, are actually, uh, the issue is more in the market, uh, being able to get, procure them off of the state list. Um, we are currently actively outreaching, um, um, fiscal already outreach to I believe over 40, uh, car lots. Uh, we're starting to reach out to car lots on the other side of Boston. Um, this is an issue kind of nationally with just that, that, uh, backup. Uh, currently we're using the town car, the electric vehicle. Um, and the senior center is allowing us to use a van, which has been really helpful. Um, and getting groceries for folks. So we are mobile. Our folks are not in their own cars traveling. They are in cars that say Amherst. Um, and as soon as we're able to procure the cars, uh, the listed, the state list had told us that we, we should expect them around November. Um, I wouldn't bet a ton on that, but, uh, you know, we're, we're doing everything we can. And I just want to appreciate Sean Mangano, who has spent a lot of his time and other folks time there, uh, aggressively pursuing vehicles. We know just for our, even our defibrillators, our laptops until we get vehicles that we own, um, we're not able to really use those resources. So it, um, it is a big step for us, but it's, it's the market right now that's holding us back. The funding is there. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I have a couple of questions or our follow-ups and, um, it's good to hear that the phones are working. So it sounds like the first three days had to do with the, the phone issue, um, that I was particularly concerned about and calling Amherst media. And then it would end up going to, uh, Cress. So that has been cleared. Yes. It was cleared the same day. Okay. Great. Well, it took a couple of days because I got a phone call from one of the tech people to actually, we went through the, the different numbers. So. I only know as the call, the call stopped coming to us that day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, glad to hear that. And then the responder opening, the responder opening is due to what? Uh, a personnel issue that I'm not able to discuss. Oh, okay. So someone left. Yeah. Oh, okay. So that, so that's interesting. I'm not interested in the personnel issue, but I am interested in, is there a process in place. That as people perhaps exit for whatever reason. That there's some type of survey and exit survey that occur. So we can learn from it. Yeah. Um, HR would be responsible for that. I can check in with them. Please do. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Because I think it's important. All of what you've, uh, related in terms of the, the calls, the amount and the processes. And that you are working with other peer groups, you know, and learning from them and they in turn learning from you. I think, uh, putting things in place like that, uh, now at the beginning would be really important. So we can learn from folks, you know, if for whatever reason that they exit, you know, this type of work. Um, and then lastly, I just want to reiterate the issue, the ongoing issue of, of language, uh, diversity and translation in the town, um, for town services, uh, Cape Verde in Portuguese, you know, uh, is, is definitely needed. Looking at our population, come my cam boat for Cambodian communities. So I know it's hard to, you know, do everything, but I hope your, your eye is on that in terms of, uh, in the future, putting those things in place. Yeah, we've recently interviewed for the position and it's tricky. Uh, but we, we are aggressively per, uh, pursuing folks in communities that speak, uh, diverse languages that are not represented. Um, it's, it's always going to be a little bit of a challenge with the size of our team. Um, but that is something along with, uh, all the types of diversity, but language being a key one, um, particularly in, uh, Cape Verde in communities and then, uh, communities that speak Chinese dialects, which are just folks who have engaged with us that we've struggled. Uh, we've been able to use some technology, but it isn't the same thing as someone who understands what we do speak in your language. So sure. And that it would be appropriate as such as the Cape Verde community for Criolo. So if you know folks, please encourage them to apply. I will meet with them ahead of time. I'm limited in my recruitment, but I'll go as hard as I can. All right. Well, uh, just to, to keep that in mind, and we'll put the word out. Um, and then I just want to make sure I heard this correctly. So right now there's, uh, calls in at 10 p.m. But no, so that's not a 10 p.m. When, when do you, uh, when are calls in Dane or when do you all end? What time? Five p.m. Five p.m. right now. Five p.m. Okay. But there's a plan to have it go until 10 p.m. January 7th. Okay. All right. Okay. Great. I just, this is, I just want to highlight once a month. It'll start twice a month. We have a call type meeting with the PD fire department and dispatch, as well as the town manager's office, uh, and Pamela. And in those meetings, that's where we've come up with this plan for January 7th, that that'll be the day where we, uh, we feel prepared to move to that next step. Okay. Great. And then lastly, in terms of social media for, it's, I think that's critical for younger, um, younger people who are in need. Um, that's how they communicate, uh, through messenger, through, you know, their DMS or whatever. Obviously I'm an old foggy. So I'm not even saying it, right? But, but I do, I am aware that that's how they communicate. So, um, you know, it's, it's important to, you know, answer, uh, the phone. Um, I think it would be critically important to have someone hired to just work the social media, right? So, um, that's, that's all I have to say, uh, Phillip. Before me. Oh, I didn't see. I can't, I can't see. I'm sorry. Who was, uh, before you. I can't see you on my screen. I'm so sorry. My apologies. Go ahead, Allegra. Um, let's see. I had a few things. First of all, again, thank you for bringing us all this information. And I really do hope that after we've answered or asked all of our questions, you will share an anecdote or two, cause I do think that that helps, um, kind of give a face or not a face, but like an idea of what's, what the day to day work can look like. Um, first I wanted to just clarify. Um, is there, do you have like informational like pamphlets or anything that has phone numbers? And is that something that this committee could get? If so. Yeah, we have a, we have. I think 800, um, cards with our number name on it. And they have a lollipop attached to them. I did have been, Hey, even if you don't want the number, take the lollipop, maybe the number will come in handy later. Um, we're really, we're working now on some orders for, we're looking at Dayton particularly. They have lots of small flyers, um, that have resources on them, their number. And they have one that I really like, which just says, if you need us call, um, the idea of being, you know, too much information sometimes can be a barrier. So just, and it has that in multiple languages. So that, that multiple folks can get it. So, um, that's a real focus for us right now. Um, Kat Newman, our program assistant is engaging with different vendors throughout the area, um, to try to find things that'll, that'll fit our need. Um, and we intend to have those, uh, widely dispersed before the end of the year, before we shift to that 10 PM schedule. Um, and I think kind of to piggyback off of what D was saying, um, both about language and social media, I feel that maybe social media would be a way to get some other language capacity out there as well, because the technology somehow exists to translate things. I hired some people under 30. So I will trust them to figure it out. I, I'm just as confused with it all, but I do, I, you know, the, the thing I know is that we want to have as many doorways to Crest as there can be for folks. So, um, that, that's really important. So we will be doing that. And I think just in terms of kind of even saying, you know, Hey, we're out at the, you know, Mobile Market here come meet us or we're, you know, we're going to the community day at Mill River. Like, you know. Yeah. One of the things we're planning to do is actually to put a table on the comment one day and just have responders kind of take shifts over there so people can just drop in and meet them. So thank you. Thank you. Really, really great and creative, um, ideas. Um, thank you. So. I just have a quick, um, just maybe. Advice or whatever it is, um, for recruitment, but, uh, I don't know if you've reached out to live. I know some survival center participants would be great. And that role if they're interested in that as well as, uh, the various events that we have going on in town this Saturday. I don't know if you all are planning. Oh yeah. Over there. We're at multiple ones at a point. Yeah. I think you'll see me probably, hopefully not too sweaty, but everywhere, um, and we'll have some responders on. I just want to add we will also, uh, the only exemption to our schedules, we will be working Halloween weekend. We will have responders throughout town. Uh, we have a very exciting chunk or treat, uh, presentation plan for all of you. So, so, uh, yeah. And to all of you's credit going to those events has really helped us a lot. I mean, it's been a long time. Um, it's been a long time where we've met the people who have been most committed to the work. And one of the things I'm very proud of is eight of our 10, uh, actually now, nine of our 11 folks have lived, worked or grew up in Amherst. So we have a lot of folks who are culturally competent to the area, which is, which has borne fruit for us all the time. Um, I don't know what program. Say that again, we didn't, we missed the first part. I was saying that I don't know what program you use or what technology you use, but, um, what center uses we use language, um, help line, which does multiple translations. And that's, uh, in like kind of you call. And then you say, I need such, such language. And then they get someone on the phone, and they're like, you know, you know, you can use that in their native language. Thank you. That's, that's super helpful. I think we've been using some combination of Google translate. And then, you know, one of the things we really hope to avoid, but have had to, minor children translating for folks. We know that that is an unfair burden to put on those young folks. Um, so thank you for that resource. I think it'll help us not do that at all. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you. Thank you. I'm interested in listening to some of the, um, Calls you've been responding to. I've been privy to your responders. And I just do have to say that they are really great. That's good to me. It's my dog Coco. Sorry. Phillip, that was language outline. Language help line. I got it. Okay. All right. Great. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Anyone else miss Pat and then. Okay. I know we have a full agenda, but, um, It will there be a dedicated. Fund number for Chris in the future. Are we going to have. Is there still going to be going through the, you know, what we currently have? What is the future plan? So the answer to that is, uh, yes, to the first part, um, the dedicated number is 4132593370. Um, my number is seven one. So if you get it wrong by one, you'll, you'll still get someone. Um, and the first, I think three or four numbers after that are also folks in our department. Um, as far as dispatch, um, there, I've not been privy to any conversations about that. Obviously it would be a decision in the budgeting process. Um, it isn't something that we would be able to do with it. Our current, um, our current structure. So that was going to thank you. That was going to be my last question. As you know, we're in budget season and, you know, part of what we hope is to support you, your department, and we support you to advocate for, um, resources because I think you guys started off in a very good, uh, way and I'm excited. Thank you. And thank your staff, uh, for the work they're doing. Yeah, they deserve all the credit. Uh, they are, they are wonderful people. Um, I, you know, I, I think I hope that we will be ready to go come the start of the next fiscal year. I think it would probably be early for me to, to kind of advocate publicly before I've had much of an opportunity to do the kind of process stuff. But, um, what I wasn't sure of at the beginning of this fiscal year was whether we would be able to, you know, train people in a way where they could do the job with the fidelity required for us to add any additional steps. Um, I do now feel confident that, you know, come July we will be able to add components to oversee them. Um, and you know, I think our biggest need is pretty clear to see it's, uh, me supervising 10 people is challenging. Um, not a, not a lot of wiggle room and it'll require me to, to work a pretty genuine schedule for a period of time. So, um, you know, but I, you know, I think I'm going to, I'm going to advocate internally and I do, I do believe and hope that folks will, will be supportive of us. I'm sorry if that was a, I'm sorry if that was a milk toast answer. I don't know that I could give a better one. No, it's all good. I think you need an assistant director. That are a cloning machine. Definitely an assistant director. Yeah. Assistant director. Can do it all. Yeah. You can. No, you can't. And you're going to get burnt out if you don't have time off. Exactly. It just won't work. One, one quick little thing too, in terms of like, when you were talking about like the little flyers and stuff like that. One thing that I know like Cooley does and some of the other kind of like clinics too, they send those little like, magnets because I know I have them like right on the, on my fridge and stuff like that with their numbers. So that's just a quick way to kind of just boom, have it right there. Cause I know I look at this. We are, we are all like at community safety day. I know that that was a challenge. What I saw was a lot of kids, including my own walking around in fire hats. So we're looking at a lot of things that, you know, I, you know, shirts, things that, that folks can have. One of the, I'm really excited. Cat Newman is an absolute visionary. We are lucky to have her. So for homeless folks in lieu of giving out business cards with our number on it, we're going to get our number printed on socks. The idea being if you need us, we're there. And if you don't, you got a warm pair of socks and it serves two purposes. And so that's the approach we're taking to engagement is as much as possible not to have it be like a disposable, you know, another thing going into the trash, but something that even if the number doesn't serve you, it's a piece of clothes. It's, it's a snack. It's something that serves a basic need for you as well. So I'm, I cannot take any credit for that. Cat Newman who led the ambassador program in town. He was the first hire after me was an absolute steal and, and think some things like that all the time. It's a great idea. Very good idea. Creative and practical. I can also see scarves for the winter. We hadn't thought about that yet, but I promise you there'll be some scars with our number on them. Okay. Great. Any other comments are our questions for Earl. Well, can I, can I give you guys an example one real quick? Oh yeah. Give us one. I'm proud. I always think about Alicia Walker saying in that town council, maybe where they approved me that this is like holding someone's baby. So this feels like I get to brag about. Our shared baby a little bit. So the one of the calls that the call I'm most proud of was to Atkins. There was a, an elderly woman who had shown up there at 4am who'd recently become homeless. And knew that the folks at Atkins were good folks. They, they let this person in. The issue was that wasn't going to be a long-term answer for the, the question. The PD was dispatched and she just wasn't in a space where that engagement was going to be. And so Mike Curtin and chief living stone decided to give it a try, see if this was a crest call. I was able to deploy out with our all female team, Vanessa and Brittany, who are wonderfully talented. I just want to know a note that there's a real need for that in town for kind of folks to be able to supported by women without a man kind of in the, in the lead role. The work they did to earn this person's trust. They sat for 10 years. And not once did they talk about this person leaving Atkins. They talked about life. They talked about life experiences growing up, where they'd grown up, who would raise them. And then 20 minutes, this person who, when we sat down said, I don't trust you, I'm not going to trust you. We were able to take, and with the support of Tim at Craig's door, we were able to get this person from Atkins to a shelter, a room of their own in 45. And we were able to get this person from Atkins to a shelter, a room of their own in 45. Which is something I'm incredibly proud of. And that there was no force used. This person was happy to go with us. We had a wonderful conversation. And we've provided follow-up support to that person for the last two weeks and are actually building a really meaningful relationship that we hope will be a gateway to this person finding permanent housing. But it's an example of a situation that wouldn't have been appropriately handled by existing public safety structures. That actually felt there was not a moment there where we felt uncomfortable with it. We were able to relate to this person. They came from a religious context. So we were able to have that conversation with them. And at the end of it, one of the things, one of the models you'll hear if you come into our offices is we're here to do the art. We're not here to make anybody do anything to force someone, but instead to provide them the reasons why they might want to do something for them. That might benefit them. And my folks did the art that day. I would stand that up with any support that anybody in town could get. That person was not coerced or forced. And because we had an existing relationship with Craig's door, a room was able to be made available that might not have been available otherwise. So I think it highlights the work our folks do, the collaboration we do, and frankly, Chief Livingstone and Mike Kerr and looking at us as a viable option for, for calls that come into town. And we're really, really glad to know all those folks involved. Wait, Earl, just a quick question for that. But first, obviously, yay. That sounds awesome. I'm so happy because that's a lot of what we envisioned. Right. But one quick question. So with that person, right, you know, let's say, and I don't know if this person had like, you know, mental health issues and things like that too. Do they get connected to like therapists or whatever? Because, you know, obviously, if there's someone that is housing insecure or homeless or, you know, houseless, they won't have, they won't have the money to pay, you know, for anyone. So is those steps connections being made, but more so for longer term, not just for like a week or two type of thing. So yeah, we were, this, this was a particular situation. I'm another Holyoke person, someone who had roots back in Holyoke. So we were actually able to connect them with providers in Holyoke who felt culturally relevant to them. We've taken this person grocery shopping. We're connecting them. Really the idea for us is we believe a warm handoff is when a person feels like they're resolved with us. So we are looking to provide this person with resources that are long-term, meaningful. And that makes sense in the context of their life. And that may mean this may be a person that we work with for the next two years that may look more permanent for them. You know, if you see our uniforms, they're gray, kind of that's what we think of. We own the, the grayness of it. And, but yeah, all of the supports we're looking to are with the other folks, the social service meeting we had had some, some capacity from folks who have clinic hours. It's challenging to get folks in appointment. And we're really excited for the community based behavioral health clinics that'll be opening up in January. We think that they will be a real resource, but our partners at the department of mental health, CSO have been real godsends in those situations and providing folks even an immediate appointment to just be able to get a medication issue resolved. It's been really important. So, so this is almost like the vehicles. The backup isn't on our end for that, which is why we, we're going to likely hold some of these cases a little bit longer than we would ideally because of the backup in the mental health system right now. So I'm very excited about all you've shared tonight. And maybe at some point I'd like to connect with you and, you know, what with you about other resources that Chris might not be aware of. That was an incident that you, your program handled that from my professional life came to me as well. So there might be some resources that I feel that our resident might benefit from in the future, but we can talk back. The only thing I know is that I don't know what I don't know. So anytime something like that comes up where folks think we might miss a resource, please call us. I just want to highlight quickly one other short call, which is we actually did a follow up call at the survival center for someone who had experienced some racial animus from someone there. We weren't there to resolve the issue, but really for the person to feel heard right to have a person of color show up and really bear witness to family might want to mute D other. Oh, there we go. Sorry. So really just to hold space for this person. That's not something I kind of had envisioned, but I got to be the person to go out and do that. And I found it to be such a rich experience that it's something we're adding as we're talking to provide to, to agencies and business in town, that there is actually a real potential follow up in mediation that doesn't involve the aggressor. That involves the space and the person who's staying there. And how do we kind of not just mend those fences, but talk about how we might handle those things differently. And then additionally, so that person doesn't have to bear the weight of reaching out to other public safety infrastructures in town, kind of taking some information and then passing that off to limit that exposure for a person. The survival center has been a really good partner. I'm not just saying that because you're here, Phillip, but we have found that the folks we work with, there's a big overlap and, you know, just being able to bring them there and get them a meal is huge, but that support post racial aggression is something that we find. I found actually to be really just a nice experience to meet someone, but also to kind of bear witness to their pain. And that's a very specific type of pain. Today we have the first incident where a responder was called the slur by someone they responded to. And we are working with Pamela and everyone in town to provide kind of meaningful supports when those things come up, but unfortunately they do. And so I just want folks to know, I know that CSWG report speaks to a lot that anti-racism piece is something that we think about at the end, the beginning and end of every meeting we have as we do every initiative, who are we missing? And then also the other side of that, how do we not over serve communities of color? Because that is an issue for folks. So one of the things I just want to say to you that we've said to the school board is we are currently writing a policy about non-surveillance. We will not participate in any surveillance, any predictive policing. That is not our work and it will not become our work. So I just want to, that's the sort of policy work we're, we're being explicit about right now. That's good to know, Earl. So you're saying that's being written. And sorry. It's like going on in my house, but so that's being written into the MOU with the school. No, that's being written into our policies. We're working on probably a dozen MOUs with other municipalities and colleges, but all of them will be held to that policy. We do not do surveillance or predictive policing. It is not something that, that fits well with us is in our intention or our mission. Great. I'm glad you're being mindful and thoughtful. Around that. So thank you again. For your very detailed report. Let me know if you want less next time. We can go for two hours. I just want to thank Chalo, one of our responders who wrote that report who got that to me. I'm very proud of him. Someone who has really made the data his own and, and deserves praise. Wonderful. Wonderful. We definitely want this continued conversation with you. We will generate that report on a monthly basis for you moving forward. Great. I think all the data is important, but the, the anecdotal stories and interactions with the community are, I'd love to bring a responder here to, to talk about what the work has felt like at some point. Maybe next report. Maybe next report. That'd be fantastic. Yeah. And also remember we're here as a resource too. So if you all do run into any roadblocks and the issues, anything that comes up that you all need support, make sure, you know, you don't have to wait a month down the road. Hiring, hiring, hiring. If you know a great person and you're waiting, telling them to come on now. I think we pay a decent salary. It's a union job. And I'm committed to one of these folks getting a pension at the end of it. Well, email us the, if that could be shared like the responder position, that would be good. Cause then I can share it with my networks, especially around Cape Verde and Portuguese speaking folks that you said you want. I mean, I could share with my network. So we will, we will get that tomorrow. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Okay. So let us continue in our, our agenda here. This is good. I feel good. I know it's, it's really great to hear how well this is going. And not to say there aren't, you know, challenges, but they, they seem to be working through them. Yeah. Okay. So. A number five on our agenda is the town council meeting preparation. Sorry. Were we going to get a DEI report? Oh, well. Oh, yes. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to skip you. It just, it's like. Within that same line. So, right. I actually have been treading water for the last few weeks. So I don't have a lot to report on anyway. So that's, it's fine. That I'll just take a short amount of time. So I've been supporting the HRC. We had a retreat a couple of weeks ago looking at their bylaws. I think that that went really well. And we're going to propose some changes there. I've done some community engagement with Hampshire college with UMass and with Amherst college. Meeting folks there. So today met with the equivalent of the chief diversity officer for. Hampshire college, the neighborhood resource. Groups that are all mentioned that his responders did. I also did two of the, those three events. And then connect it with another colleague at Hampshire college, who actually has. Is looking for some placements for some students that she volunteers. Well, to some volunteer placements for some students. So. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Mellon maze. Undergraduate fellowship. It's a, it is a program that's funded by the Mellon foundation that supports undergraduate students. Who are interested in the academy. And it's a small court cohort generally. Highly motivated. Academic students. And Rosemary, my colleague works with this group and is looking for some, some volunteer placements or internships or other opportunities for them to work. With the city and town and different groups. So. So that was the purpose of our meeting. I had been. Chairing the HR director search, which is coming to a close. We've recommended three individuals that will be meeting. Paul's already met with one will meet with the other, the meaning to on Friday of this week. Working a little bit with Earl on his search for the press responder. And, oh, I did want to say that there has been. Some follow up with Brianna on the language access piece. So I know that a contract has been. I think. Completed for at least online translation of some of the. Materials that are on the website, but there are still some gaps in the language access. And so a couple of things have been brought to my attention even today by the assistant town manager. So we're, we're continuing to work on that piece. But there has been some progress. So I'll try to, perhaps for the next meeting have more complete information about what, what services are inexistent. But I know that there has been some movement there. And. Other than that, I don't know if I have a lot to report on. Well, thank you. Sounds like you've been busy. I had a question, I guess, for you to clarify about the language translation. It sounds like if it's going to be online, that it's textual. So for town council meetings, is there any translation within zoom? So, so there is translation available in zoom. For town council. Meetings that there is. And I, so I'm, as you know, from this meeting, like technology is not my strength, but I do know that. There are a lot of conversations with Brianna that there is an ability through the zoom platform to have. I believe translation services. Available. So that would address town, town. The town council meetings there. One of the gaps that came apparent today was that. I believe it's the planning committee. There was a meeting that was going to be meeting with the developer and there were community members who wanted to respond to the proposed development. And we're looking to be able to be a part of that planning committee meeting and. Have translation from their native language to the committee in English. And so there has been sort of a temporary work around where a city needs to be. I think that's something that's definitely an ongoing. Gap that we need to address. So not there. You know, we're, we're certainly not there. I think there are some steps made, but there are. Multiple areas as far as translations of forms that came up recently. Translation for board and committee meetings. So there's a number of different areas where there's still gaps, but there, I do know that we have made some steps to make sure that some information would be, would be able to that individuals would be able to translate. And I do believe I may be incorrect, but the current website allows for translation into some languages. Right. It does. So thank you for that. I, you know, I just want to emphasize if, if we are to have equity or at least some level of. Equitable access. We must this, this has to be this year. We have to have translation of town council meetings at the very least for our residents to be able to understand and participate. And engage with what's going on. So I know you're working on it. Sounds like Breanna is working on it with you. I know she's the technology guru, but it's, it's something that I just, I'm very passionate about. I know it hinders a lot of participation on so many levels for people where English is not their first language. So, great. I look forward to hearing more about it as, as this progresses. Looks like we have questions. I don't know who raised their hand first. Deborah or Ms. Pat. So whichever is Deborah. Okay. Well, there you go. Deborah. Hey, hey, Pamela, thank you for the, the report. I have a question though, in terms of, did you get any more clarity as to why the police asked you or the town or whomever asked you to write that report. Around, you know, what happened to the Amherst nine. Because like you said, I mean, you've since after we had those conversations, you've since said that, you know, you don't have any real. And the police, you know, they were asking me to do it because I'm a police officer. I'm a police officer because I believe that the police are going to have the best of Tory power in regards to them. So again, I'm so confused as to why you wrote that report. And then to when is the report from the police coming out? Did you make any inquiries and regards to that? Because I know we had discussed it and I believe. You are going to like inquire as to when the police were going to police that both chief Livingston and I have been asked to complete, I don't know if we're going to be in person, but to provide updated information to the town council at their next meeting or for their next meeting on October 17th. I was asked and perhaps I miss spoke at the last meeting but the request for me to write that report did not come from the police department but basically came from an inquiry from the town manager to take a look at the situation. So I can't remember what was said at the last meeting if I indicated that I was- No, no, it was- Right, okay. I don't think I said that I was asked by the police department to write a report, but- No, no, no, I didn't know, I was just like, that's why I said I don't know if it was the police or the town manager, remember, that's how I said it. I don't remember. You know what I'm saying? So okay, you clarified it was the town manager. What I'm asking you was because yeah, why did the town manager ask the DEI, a director or whatever to write that report when you really don't have any oversight over the police, you don't have any investigatory as you later said to us, right? When we asked you questions, I don't know why you were the one that was designated as the person to investigate that situation. So I don't think that was, I mean, my report was not presented as an investigation of the situation because as we all know, I don't have investigatory power over- No, I didn't know that because, you know, the thing is the newspapers kind of put it out there, like, you exonerated the police. I mean, that was exact a newspaper title. The DEI director of the town exonerates Amherst police from any wrongdoing in the, in the, in the live, you know, fifth incident. You see what I'm saying? And that's why, you know, I'm just kind of like, that's why I'm asking these questions. So I think it's pretty obvious. It just seems like, again, as I said, like a shield and those questions need to be asked. You know what I'm saying? Because basically we had that meeting months ago, you presented at that. We haven't gotten any other information from the police since then. And the only thing that's out there is your, your, you know, again, like you said, it wasn't investigatory, but your report that really had a lot of gaps, a lot of holes and no updated information in regards to it. And this is really frustrating, you know? And I'm sorry that you're the one that's feeling it, but you were the one that took on that mission. Well, that's right. I have the tough skin. So I don't mind the tough questions. I think, and this is sort of an awkward position. So I don't want to speak for the town manager. I will say this. It is my understanding that I was asked to review the situation because the role of DEI is one that's supposed to encompass all of the departments in town, any issues that would be framed as a diversity, equity and inclusion issue. And the way in which the, that police interaction sort of bubbled up to the surface was one in which there was an allegation of racism or discrimination or harassment, you know, the broad, and so I believe that that is why I was asked to take on that role. In addition to doing the work as the DEI director, I also worked with the HRC to suggest that that was another avenue where they could file a complaint and seek additional information. So I don't, I mean, it sounds as if you're suggesting that this was outside of my purview and I should not have had any role in which- Well, I just think that you shouldn't have had a role that was so finite, right? Where you went and you basically said that it was something, what was the exact words? Cause obviously I haven't read that report in a while, but it was something that, you know, it wasn't a violation or whatever words you used, which I think was very finite, which really, like I said, led to all of these different, you know, newspaper articles basically saying that the Amherst police department was Xonerated. You see what I'm saying? So that's the only thing that I want you, you know, because you're new to the position, you're new to the area in terms of the situation, like Amherst politics, Amherst bureaucracy and Amherst issues, right? And so you just want to be careful in regards to it, right? Because as you stated, I could see if you did that because you had some type of investigatory arm with the police or you had some type of investigatory arm with anything else. You see what I'm saying? But barring the fact that you don't, I don't think it was, you know, maybe you could have laid out the facts as you knew them at the time, but not then made some type of conclusory, you know, a remark in regards to what you found out. I think that's where then you run into problems, right? Well, I think given the fact that you didn't have any of, given the fact that you don't have any power really, you know, to do anything and regards to it. So I think that that's my issue of this. And then second, when is that report going to come out from the police? So you think it's going to come out from the police? So I just answered that question, right? And I am, as you just stated, you don't have any authority over the police department, but it is my understanding that the town council will invite the, or I had intention to invite the police chief and myself back to the next town council meeting, but based on your comment, perhaps there's not enough need for me to be there. Well, I think you just got to be careful what you say. That's all I'm saying. You can be there, but just be careful what you say. And so, and well, for me though, okay, him being invited to the next town council meeting to say anything to me, I'm asking when is the report coming out? So are you telling me that at the next town council meeting, the report, they're going to have the report for us? So I cannot answer for Chiefs Livingstone. So I mean, the best answer that I can provide you is the one that I gave you, which is that it is my understanding that both Chiefs Livingstone and myself were going to be invited back to the next town council meeting. But I can't tell you what the chief or any of his officers are going to do. Okay, well, you know, I'm putting it out there again that I want to know, right? And maybe if you can do that because you're in the mix there, when the report is going to come out, that's what I want to know. And I'll just say me, you know what I'm saying? I won't even say the group, I'll say me. I want to know when that report is going to come out. I don't want to hear, you know, any more like this and that and dancing around the issue. I want to know when that report is coming up. I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Deborah. One of the things that, and I miss Pat's next, but I think is important. If we listen and watch the August meeting, Chief Livingstone himself says that he's going to conduct a investigation and send out a report. So that was August and we're still waiting. And I understand that you, Pam, and then Chief Livingstone will be invited. But does that really constitute, and it is not about you being invited. I think it's, we all need to be there and be in conversation. But does Chief Livingstone appearing at the town council, does that constitute a report? So you're asking a question that I don't have the ability. And really, I'm asking you. Because the only person who could answer for Chief Livingstone is Chief Livingstone. Exactly. And I can't answer for him. I can't dictate or give a date or specify what he or his officers intend to do or what date they're going to provide a report. I can only provide you with the information that I have, which I have done. And I appreciate that. I think it's more important that we as a CSSJC ask that, excuse me, openly for not only to satisfy our mission, but for the community. Where is the report, Chief Livingstone, that you said you were going to do in August? So there's that. And I'll go on to Ms. Pat. So Ms. Pamela, thank you for the report. I'm glad that you're trying to engage with different stakeholders in our town and the area colleges. Thank you for your report. I know you're super busy. The DEI department is one of the most important department in our town. All departments are also important. So I appreciate the work that you do. So I have two quick question. And that is, in our last CSSJ meeting, I had mentioned in terms of the MS-9 and their family statements, it was also delivered to the Human Rights Commission. Do you know during the retreat, perhaps maybe Philip can tell us what was the document discussed with the bylaw that HRC is proposing would that give them more power to take more action in future discrimination and complaints in our town? So the incident and the letter was discussed at the retreat. I don't believe that the letters were read in their entirety, but they were read at the last HRC meeting. And so that was part of the discussion. The bylaws that we discussed looked at some procedural issues. And would seek to clarify some of the powers that the HRC, the Human Rights Commission would have. So one of the things that we discussed would be, we discussed whether, what was the timeframe from a complaint coming in and a response coming out to the HRC. We discussed whether the respondent in a complaint would be notified immediately upon a complaint being filed. We talked about looking at the language, sort of what I'm gonna broadly classify as the equity language in town, like talking about the affirmative action plan, the EEO policy, the DEI statement to see if there were a uniform. And we also said very clearly that this was just the beginning of the conversation. Like we, the Human Rights Commission knows that they will need to spend more time discussing the changes that are made. And I had provided the Human Rights Commission prior to the retreat, a document that looked at the way in which other human rights commissions operate around the state. So for example, I believe it might be the city of Lynn or maybe the city of Beverly where the Human Rights Commission only meets four times a year and they only provide like informational, to the town residents. And we can contrast that with like the city of Cambridge where their Human Rights Commission is staffed with attorneys and they actually have the full authority to litigate cases and sort of said, where's the capacity for the town of Amherst? And I suggested that we look very closely at the town of Arlington. The Arlington DEI director is a colleague and it looked at some of their brylaws to see if they would be helpful for providing a model for how we might operate or how the Human Rights Commission might operate. In addition to that, also pointed out for the town of Arlington that there's some things that we wouldn't want to adopt. We might adopt part or not part. So I mean, I'll stop there and let Phillip perhaps provide more information since he was at the retreat. If I may finish up my question and I will shut up. Is that okay? Sure. Okay. Please. So something that has really bothered me and I think, I think that HR Human Rights Commission, commissioners, she'll be paid stipend. Like us, they should be paid stipend for their time. I wonder if that was even discussed at the retreat. It was not discussed at the retreat. Yeah. Okay. If we're talking about equity, most of the folks on that committee are people of color and we don't have too many of us in this town. In fact, I think anyone serving on committee should be paid stipend because the school committee members get paid, town councilors get paid, we get some stipend. I think it should be across the board. If anybody decide that they don't want it, they can donate the money. But I think it's something that if you want to recruit more diverse people with HRC it's something that the town managers should consider to give stipend to them. That's all I have to say. Oh, one last thing. And it's not part of your report. It's actually good thing depending on who, I read in town managers report that our town is collaborating with my ancestral country, Nigeria government. I don't know if you're part of that, but it seems like Brianna, the communication director since involved. I read that. I wanted to know if you're involved as the DEI director and has there been any outreach done to Nigerian community in our midst, who could support the project, I'm excited. That's what I'm saying. I don't know about Brianna's, the project that was reported in the town managers report. So I'm not certain. Was it collaboration with the Nigerian government that was in the report? Or was it? It's Mandela Foundation, something like that. She said it this summer and I'm just floored. I'm not saying it's a good thing to have a long-term relationship to do this. So that each country, each community, it's a capital, some town elected officials and employees are doing this. But I think it would have been a simple courtesy to reach out to Nigerian community in our midst to let us know. Instead of me just reading it and people were calling me, texting me, do you know about this? I'm like, I have no idea. You're reading it as I read it too. It's just our communication in this town is just weird. That's all I can say. It's a good thing, it's a good thing. So I don't know how it was written in the report but let me provide some clarification on the Mandela Fellowship. So UMass Amherst is one of, I think, about 30 colleges and universities around the country that host Mandela Fellows. And they come, they're actually, it's a program from the State Department and it has two components. It has one component which attracts young African leaders. So the sub name is Yali. So it's a Young African Leaders Institute President Obama started this process and individuals applying their home countries are selected and then placed at universities around the country. And I, so both the town manager Brianna and I attended a UMass event which was a reception for Yali Fellows. So I don't know what is written in the report but that is the connection to the Mandela Fellows that it was attendance at this UMass event. And then we each had an opportunity. There's, I'm gonna guess that there were maybe 30 different fellows from all across the continent of Africa to meet with them. We are, they attempt to pair individuals with individuals who have similar interests. So I received a list and was introduced to three young women who are interested in the law or who have law degrees in their home countries. So that's the program. Beyond that, I don't know of the existence of a program where the town is working directly with the Nigerian government. And the Yali program came as we, the town manager, myself and other people in town received an invitation to go to the UMass event. So again, I'm not familiar with exactly what's written in the town manager's report but I know that we did attend a Yali event and that if there's something in addition to that I'm not aware of it. Thank you for sharing. I'm just, I guess what I'm trying to get at is, it's a good thing. And I thank our town government, town council, town manager for wanting to collaborate with my home country. But it's just like not reaching out to my community. It's- So what I'm trying to point out is that it was a UMass event. So we would not have had the opportunity to invite people to an event. We were, we received invitations to go to- It's not what I'm saying, just like email to us. I say, oh, by the way, we're thinking about collaborating with Nigeria. You're from Nigeria, we are experts as Nigerians who live here. We will be of value and support to our town officials. It's what I'm trying to say, but I don't want to label the issue. I know we have other agendas, but thank you so much. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. So just quickly, thank you, Pam, for sharing what again, sounds like a very busy schedule. And I know that it's been impacted by shortage in staff, but thank you. Just reminds me, Ms. Pat, what you're speaking to 15 years ago when I arrived here, there was more of a town-gown effort in collaboration in some very formal and organized ways. And I agree that it's, again, it was a UMass event, but when folks from different countries come here, one way to make sure that they find home and want to stay or want to come back is to connect people with communities. So just to think about that in terms of expanding this notion of diversity and equity. So are there any other questions for Pam Young and DEI? I'm sorry, Pam, you... I was gonna say, I will make sure that I share your comments with UMass, with the organizers of the event, because I think the invitation has to come from them. Absolutely, absolutely. Maybe we're referring with two different projects. Actually, this one says, this is a more like exchange program between our town and a particular area in my country. Maybe... It could be the same one? I don't know, I'm not certain. So it could be two different programs. Yeah, it might be, yeah, but anyway. Okay, Philip, did you want to fill us in more on the bylaw discussion and Human Rights Commission connected with DEI? Yeah, I can do that. I think that to a little bit of Ms. Pat's point is that with the looking at the bylaws of the different municipalities being Cambridge and the various kind of like, they have almost like a core type of proceeding happening over there at the Human Rights Commission that we want to take a kind of mutual, like a center approach to it from Cambridge and from the other one, I forget right now, the other one that meets only four times a year and to having that capacity be basically that we can still receive complaints, hopefully, and correct me if I'm wrong, Kamala, the DEI department would be looking at it with the chairs of the Human Rights Commission and then we can go from there to see what kind of steps can be taken. And so that's kind of the bylaw that we've written up. But right now, I think that the point that I was gonna make is that pointing out Ms. Pat's kind of stipend conversation around it is that we have limited commissioners is really an issue that we're facing at the Human Rights Commission. We don't, sometimes it's difficult to meet a quorum. So I think that if we had a more active Human Rights Commission that that might be something that we can look into to further the bylaw. And it is gonna be an ongoing conversation and to look to see how we're gonna move forward. Thank you. Okay. There are no more questions for Pam Young and DEI. I'd like to move on to the next item. So town council meeting preparation and I believe council president Lynn Grismare, Grismare is in the audience. Can I ask one question though? So are we gonna be able to present at the town council meeting or? Well, so two things. So Ms. Pat is asked for a short break if we can do that, if everyone agrees. And then when we come back, I'm sure Lynn Grismare will be able to answer that question. Thank you. Okay. So let's take a five minute break. Thank you. Let's see, still waiting on Deborah, Freke. I'm here. Oh, hey. I just didn't have the video on. Yeah, let's see, Freke, are you here? All right, everyone's in the house. Okay. So the next thing on the agenda is town council meeting preparation and Lynn has joined us as a panelist. Hello, Lynn. Sorry, I needed to unmute and also show my face which seems to be a little brighter than I want it to be. But anyway, first of all, thank you for including me on your agenda. And I have to say I really enjoyed listening to the last hour and a half of your meeting. It was very informative and enjoyed the questions that you've asked. There are a couple other counselors in the room, some of whom have asked if they could join me in this discussion. We can't bring them all in because that would constitute a quorum. In fact, let me just mention Anna Deblan-Gothiers in the room and the audience, Andy Steinberg and Nika Lopes, Dorothy Pam, Alicia Walker and Michelle Miller and Pat DeAngelis. Two of those people are the ongoing liaisons to the committee. But if you could bring in Annika Lopes and Michelle Miller, that would be useful. And I just wanna explain that Alicia is also in the audience and Alicia, we already have two people from finance committee, so we're on the teetering edge of that. But since we have eight people on finance, if Alicia did wanna join, you should raise your hand. Yeah, bring Alicia in please, okay? And at some other point in time, other counselors who are in the audience may wanna raise their hands. But first of all, you did request that you be on the agenda for this coming meeting. And at this point, that is the plan. In addition to that, I do wanna clarify because I was listening to your earlier conversation. I have asked the town manager to make sure that in our package for this coming Monday night is a report, a written report from the police chief and a written update from Pamela Young. Okay, so... Len, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I'm just having difficulty getting Alicia into the room, so let me just try one more time. I don't know, Alicia, if you... Now she looks like she's doing it. There you go. Thank you. Hi, Alicia. So it is on our agenda that they will be, the reports will be in the packet and they will be there. And if needed, we will ask for a presentation but certainly have a question and answer period or comment period. And that came directly out of both your request but also the last meeting of the council where counselors, again, were very clear that they would like to see the final, the updated report from the DEI director and the report from the police. So that's that piece. The other piece that you also mentioned and then Deborah, I'll get to questions, okay? Was talking about the seven points that you made in your letter. And as I'm sure you are aware, I drafted a response and I have to say I've never spent so much time on a response to a letter but that's my problem, not yours. And I shared that with the council but they never discussed it. They really focused in on the completion of the reports and getting those reports and wanting to look at what have we learned and then also a potential retreat. So many of you, I know we're in the audience, several of you were in the audience. Thank you for hanging in with us so late. I hope your meetings don't go as late for your sake but our meetings do because of everything on our agenda. So why don't I pause there and say, I do hope we can focus on what it is you would like to get out of the meeting on Monday. We are going to have to restrict it to an hour. We actually begin our meeting at 5.30 on Monday night and then we have three different meetings Monday night and we have a ton on our plate, so as you well know. So Deborah, would you like, I'm sorry, Dee, how would you like to proceed? Yes, so Deborah had her hand up first and we'll go ahead and take questions if you're finished. Yes. Providing us with info. Yeah, so I guess like the first question would be around the timing. So you said that the meeting on Monday night is only for an hour, you said? No, no, no. The first hour is from 5.30 to 6.30. Oh, okay. That's the working session of the council on the rental bylaw. The second meeting is a public forum on the financial orders that were on the council's agenda this last time and that those financial orders have been reviewed by the finance committee. They've been unanimously recommended to the council but we have to hold a public forum because those are financial orders. The third meeting is our general town council meeting and it's during that meeting that we are setting aside an hour for the conversation that includes the CSSJC. Does that help? So yeah, well, one is that I have another community meeting on that same day and I had that meeting on it before this one because again, I didn't hear anything back and I can't be holding up my meetings because of not knowing whether you all were gonna put us on a knock. So I have another meeting that starts at six o'clock. So for me, obviously I wanna attend this meeting too. So what time approximately would CSSJC be on? And by that I mean that hopefully this time you will not be shut out while whomever is presenting on the issue. Hopefully we'll be part of the conversation. So I don't wanna be out in the audience for like two hours, three hours while everything's being discussed and then we'll be brought in. So I think that's the first question. The first question is when will CSSJC be on because like I said, I have another community meeting starting at six o'clock. So when will that be on? When will you be done with your other meeting? It's six to seven 30, seven 30, six to seven 30. Okay. The reason I'm asking that is I'm finalizing the agenda tomorrow before it's posted and we can change the time. Right now I have it posted for seven to eight and I will just move the time accordingly. Let me just look at how to move it to seven to know earlier than seven 30 and get back to you all as fast as I can. Okay. Cause that would be great in terms of our timing. Absolutely. And then the other one, the other question that I have is more so the one that I had posted to Pamela earlier. So I know that you all asking for Pamela to ask for an update from her report. Since that August meeting or whatever, yeah, the meeting we had with you all in the town council, you know, since I've learned that we've learned that, you know, Pamela doesn't have any investigatory capability. She doesn't oversee the police, you know, any of that. So what is the point of her doing the report or giving you all an update on it? You see what I'm saying? So why isn't it just the police is, you know, the one that has the investigation? Unless, I mean, unless Pamela's going to be sharing resources for the family or maybe talking about the compensation fund that we want, you know, for the families. I mean, that I would feel it would be apropos. However, for her to give an update in terms of anything else in regards to the incidents, if she doesn't have an investigatory part to play in this, what is the point? The town manager asked Pamela to do the initial investigation based on the request. No, wait a minute, but Pamela said she doesn't investigate. All right, I'm confused. I guess I don't want to get into the semantics of it. They asked Pamela to do a report, okay? Pamela did a report and subsequent to that report, I believe there have been some connections with some of the families. I don't know anything else than that because I frankly have not seen the final report. I haven't even seen drafts of the report. I've seen only the same report you've seen. I am waiting like you are and the rest of the town council to see an update which was talked about on the 16th, 15th of August, and I'm waiting to see the police report. Okay, so that's fine. I mean, obviously I'm not, I don't want to get into semantics either. So my thing is this, I want to actually be protective of Pamela. She is a woman of color. She's a black woman. She just started in her position. She's new to the town. She's starting out. I don't want her to be used as a way to protect the police. I just want to put it out there. You see what I'm saying? I don't want her to be in a position, to be put in a position to write a report that will be protective of the police if she doesn't have all the information, if she hasn't been in touch with the families, if she doesn't have the information. So that is the part and I want to be clear and I want to be protective of her. You see what I'm saying? So that she does not get put in a position that she'll be put in a bad situation. So that's why I want to be very clear to the town manager because he hasn't shown up to any of our meetings, but I want to be clear to him as to why it is that he's asking her to do an update or to write a report at all about this incident since she doesn't have an investigatory arm. She can't investigate. She doesn't oversee the police and all of that. So again, unless she is going to be doing things to be in support of the Amherst 9, the young people that were violated on that day in terms of compensation, things like that, I don't know what the point is. So I just want to put that up there. I think you have every right to raise that question on Monday night. Thank you, Deb. Ms. Pat. So first of all, I want to thank all the counselors who have joined us tonight and those who are also listening. I thank you for your time. So for me, I just want to again state that most of the BIPOC youth and their families of July 5th incident, meaning Amherst 9, they approached me. I am their representative. They asked me to speak for them. And I have shared both at Human Rights Commission meeting as a resident and I've shared in our CSSJC meetings. So they have put out statements that they instructed me to forward to Human Rights Commission to CSSJC. I would like, they also told me that they would like me to forward that to the town council. So I'll be emailing that to Elaine to be part of the packet for town council. And in terms of final police report, I'll be curious to see if the Amherst 9 voices are being included in the final report. So here are the things that the youth and the families BIPOC have requested and that's what they will want because I don't want us to go on Monday and start wasting our time. So may I observe, Pat, that this is the first time I've heard there are statements like this. I don't believe that Pamela or the police chief has seen those statements or anyone else. I also want to make very sure that you understand that the moment they come to me by email, they are public records. Even if they never get posted in the packet, they are public records. And in fact, I've now started including something about that at the bottom of my email so there's no question. We need to be extremely careful since these are minors or at least we believe they're minors, their names are redacted and that they are not directly associated or in any way exposed publicly. Yeah. Looking to the lawyers in the group, Pamela and others to confirm that. And then the other question I have is if we have these reports, but Pamela who has been putting together the compilation has never seen them, then we don't have a final report. And so there is no sense doing this on Monday if we don't have it. Actually, if I may, and I don't want to speak for Pamela, she actually has seen it twice. I did two different meetings that I referenced, the woman right commission and also to, and also assess JCC. So what I wanted to say in terms of the youth, they are protected class. I'm aware of that. So their names are not signed in there. So it's, they have right to confidentiality. It's already out there. I believe I mentioned in the already posted it last week in their newsletter. So it's out there, but I would like it to be, they would like it to be part of the Council packet. And thank you for your comments in terms of confidentiality. I'm glad you raised it because some of the Councilors were questioning last, in your last meeting, that they don't even know the names. They don't know who wrote it. Somebody just made up statements. So I'm glad that we know that the youth have been protected because of their age. So I know that. So they want their voices included in the final report. They want to be made whole. They, you know, some of the, some of this case and their families are really struggling because of the trauma they have of police misconduct. They need to be healed. They need therapy. Compensation fund is not starting. They have to be compensated. If these families were middle class they'd be lawyering up. So any action by the town that doesn't include compensation isn't going to move any needle. I'm just stating it like this. It's going to define our town. It's already defined our town this year about inaction of our town. That's true. And nothing they said to me was that the two police officers actually need to make a genuine public apology for what they did. Also the town manager, the chief police, the town council, the school committee, and the superintendent of schools either as a joint strong statement condemning the misconduct of the police. That's when the personal healing for this youth and their families will begin. Before we start even talking about retreat, before we start talking about visioning in our town, before we start talking about community healing without this youth being made whole, we cannot move forward. This is their message through me that I'm putting out tonight. Thank you. Pat, I'm just going to be very clear. None of the counselors are going to respond to the issue tonight. We cannot do that because that would constitute a debate and we are not having a debate tonight ourselves. I do want to ask Pamela, you have your hand up. Have you received all of these final reports? So I received a letter from one of the parents that did have a signature and a name and two anonymous, one anonymous letter from parents and one anonymous letter compilation of statements from the youth that were involved. All of those statements were forwarded on to the police department. So all of that information has been sent to the police department. And they were read publicly in the meetings for the Human Rights Commission and read a lot publicly in the CSJC prior meet, well, maybe two meetings ago, but in the CSJC meeting as well. So I have seen the letters and they have all of that information has been forwarded to the police department. Pat, are there any other letters besides those three? I'm only aware of two letters. Okay. That's, I just want to make sure that whatever we're dealing with is the full set of what we're dealing with. Thank you. Okay, I think it's Legra. I think you and Deb can go before me. I don't really remember what I was going to say. Okay. Deb, did you want to go ahead? Yeah, I just have like a follow-up question to Lynn and I don't know Lynn if you can answer it again because I'm not sure what the parameters are of you all being on this meeting, the town councillors. But I guess my question either for today or for Monday would be, why has it taken so long for there to be any action on behalf of the town, on behalf of the police in regards to the Amherst night, this happened on July 5th and we are now October 12th, soon to be October 17th. And we haven't heard anything, we haven't heard any action, even like for us, it took like two inquiries, we had our chairs had emailed you all before, then we just kind of contacted you all again in regards to it. So again, which really kind of makes me think as a BIPOC person and speaking again for the voices of BIPOC residents in our community that this really is not a priority. So I don't know if you can address this now or if you want to address it on Monday, but that's going to be one of the things that I'll be bringing up. Thank you for letting us know that. That's again, I'm not gonna get into answering questions or debates tonight. I'm trying to get a sense of what it is that people want to cover on Monday night. So I appreciate that Lynn and the councillors to have attended as we attend you all's meetings to stay abreast of how our group can work to make the community better on all issues, having to do with finance, planning, et cetera, because DEI and equity should be everywhere. I urge you all and invite you all to when you can to either be in our meeting in the audience or to watch the recorded ones. And I know you have a full plate, but I think it would be helpful. So very quickly, the youth were not found to have participated in criminal activity. And my concern in rewatching and reviewing the August meeting where Chief Livingstone and some of the councillor's questions really focused on the issue of the law having to do with minors not driving, being able to drive themselves home, et cetera. I'd like for the police report to fully explain why were these youth held? For what reason in terms of policy and law and to also have some plan in terms of how it won't happen. If this occurs, what are the steps the police are going to take in regards to interactions with youth? So we can have much better outcomes and hope to God that the outcome is never totally negative and harmful. And I'd like for the town council and the police department to take up the new guidance from post that has been set forth by the state. And it regards all policing departments in the state and their actual guidance. And again, we went through it last meeting, our last CSSJC meeting I presented about post that there are guidelines in how police departments should interact with youth. And so I would like to see not only a report about what occurred, but how do we not have these situations have those same outcomes, right? That the police either through training or adherence to post will not have this occur again. So I'd like to see that what happens next basically. And then lastly, at least on my end is I agree with Deb and Deb is an attorney herself. And so she's very much aware, I'd listen to when Deb's talking because it's attorney to attorney in many ways. But the protections of our DEI staff person, that we see that she is already overextended and not to say she's not handling it, she is. But this office has a lot to it. And so we wanna make sure that she's supported but also that her position is not used as Deb put it so succinctly as a shield for the police. And people can interpret it as they may, but in some ways it could be interpreted as such. And so then it leads me to the review board. And what are the possibilities of having subpoena power as many review boards do in different municipalities that would be able to have access to records that would impact a case like this and trying to understand what is going on or something more serious. And I understand we are in negotiations with our police department, but we have post guidelines again that are set up by the state. So I would like to know, how is the town in their negotiations including these post guidelines as requirements for certification for our police? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Allegra. Thank you. So I guess I just wanted to kind of respond to the last council meeting and our presentation for this upcoming meeting. And I did read the letter and I appreciate that you spent time trying to give us a response. And I think that I really appreciated some of the counselors in the last meeting saying that it seemed like there was this emphasis on putting together a letter without as much of an emphasis on the conversations around what the CSSJC had initially asked from council in our first letter. And in a sense, I feel like nothing, but not much in terms of our asks have changed since we first came to you in August. And I certainly wanna reiterate all of those things still stand in that we've had some further conversations about what things might or could look like in terms of some of our new suggestions. And I hope that any conversation going forward can kind of ground itself because I know that part of what you were trying to do was to explain the role of council, what council can and can't do. And so I was looking back through some of the materials and I found something from November 8th of 2021, which is kind of the matrix that I believe you had started based on some of the CSWG working recommendations. And I'm just thinking of the first example that we had as an ask, for example, was reducing the size of APD freezing positions for now since there was a posting for a vacancy and APD the day after the video surfaced in July. And so one of the things that council is and was able to do was to consider reducing the size of the Amherst Police Department as a goal in the budget guidelines. And we do know that budget season is starting again. So for example, that is one concrete thing that could be a response in the letter. We will reconsider this and that is again, an ask that I am making. And I believe that the majority of the committee would be making as we have put that in our letter previously. So I do think that there are some previous documents. There's one from November of 2021 and then one as well as status report from February 28th of 2022. So those are perhaps documents that could be worked on collaboratively between town council and CSSJC to further the goals of the CSWG and whatever else the CSSJC brings forward. I do like visual is nice with the columns. It helps me kind of organize my brain. So I do, I'm not saying, yes, we're gonna do a retreat but I'm saying if we're having conversations it does for me at least help to have some concrete things to work from. And I think our letter certainly is still an important thing to work from as well as perhaps these two documents that have already been created by town council can help remind town council of what their role could and should be, I believe. One of those documents is the matrix that's dated in November of 2021. Am I correct? Yes. Okay, and the other document is? It's a status report. It was in the town manager report from February 28th of 2022. It starts on page 14 to page 18 of that town manager report. Thank you. So I don't know if he generated that or if that was from the council. He generates his report and he included that because we asked him to continually update us on the issues. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Allegra. Those great concrete suggestions. Phillip. Yeah, hello. Can you hear me? I can. Yes, okay, I know. I'm having some. Other people are shaking their heads, you know. All right. What I would like to see is the report. Obviously as that is the discussion right now for the police department, but not just the report, but hopefully we can have some conversation around the report and specifically with the chief of police chief Livingstone to kind of understand the steps that were taken in the finalization of the report who was reporting on it. Was there multiple eyes on the investigation or was it just one detective? And then furthering on that, I would and then I would say that the structure to the response of the police department, the town and all other individuals involved is kind of what I would like to see. And that more so being that I have the scenario where I'm the co-chair of the Human Rights Commission and we put out the report or we put out the, not the report, that's sorry, requests for an investigation. And we did it in a formal way of the police filing. And then we did it in an informal way of sending it to a captain of the police department as was helping on the CSWG. And we were told that as a good person to go to. And in both ways, we never received kind of like, hey, got the report or got the claim, we're looking into it or we'll investigate it. These are the steps that we might take or anything in regards to any step of the way of what was happening. We really kind of kept out of the loop on that end for the Human Rights Commission and more so even kept out of the loop when Ms. Pat brought up the two documents from the parents. We shared that information through the same means to kind of get into the police report to make sure that that was received and taken. And when we did so, we were kind of told that the report was in Chiefs Livingstone's desk or on Chiefs Livingstone's desk. And so we were hoping that that wouldn't make it into the report and I believe it has, but even kind of an acknowledgement like, hey, we have it, then like why did I have to send out an email to kind of receive that information of the Chief is kind of reviewing it. So structure of response, I think is key here. And I think that's kind of what builds the bridge here from this committee, from the Human Rights Committee and the town council. It's kind of just the response in general. I think we all collectively, at least from viewing town council meeting in the past, previous month all have a goal of healing our community and really responding to this incident in a way that uplifts the use that makes their voices heard that as adults on this call collectively respond in a way that is it's not gonna happen in their town, whoever you are, whatever position you hold, we're not going to allow these instances to continue to happen. So I would like to kind of see also what, I guess, the town council views these committees being the CSSJC and the Human Rights Commission as like advisors, what are you looking for from us that you would like to see more of and how can we help each other in that way? And I was privy to join that last town council meeting. And as far as being one of the co-chairs from Human Rights Commission, I think that moving forward is going to be very strong process. And we look forward to any type of response, whether that's a retreat or getting together however we do, but just collectively trying to not misstep on the response of how do we move forward? Thank you, Phillip. So it sounds like the transparency within the process would help to build trust. I just wanna clarify to make sure I understood what you said about you sent the letters to the police and there wasn't any receipt of we have these letters. Thank you for sending them. We'll add them to the report or just we have them. I sent it and the response was that the report is on Chief Believer's desk. So what's then I followed up to kind of ask is it going to be involved or put into the police report and the response was that they would try to, I believe that has happened now, but even that transparency has kind of was left up in the air like is it going to be? Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. Yes, Deb. Yeah, yeah, just some last kind of thoughts, especially based on some of what my CSJC, CSJC members have spoken about just to kind of reiterate the importance of something else that we're looking for. And Ms. Pat had already kind of talked about it, but really to kind of, I would like the town council to address it, which is the compensation one, right? I don't want it to just be set aside as well. There's not, that's something that can come down the road or we haven't discussed it or whatever. It would be something to be addressed at this next meeting around the compensation because the part of it is how, how is the Amherst 9 being taken care of? How have they been supported emotionally or have they been supported emotionally at all throughout this from July 5th, all the way to now October 17th, which is gonna be the next town council meeting. I wanna know what has happened in terms of supporting the Amherst 9, the young people and their families throughout this time. And obviously the compensation fund is a big part of it. So I would like that to be part of the conversation and really the town council addressing it. And then second, in this report that the police chief and the police have done and are going to be sharing on the 17th is to kind of go over what they investigated, how they investigated, what their outcome is. And if their outcome does, it is that there was some type of violation or issue, which obviously me personally, I think there was, but again, based on it, let's see if they do, that it is included in there that besides an apology, which an apology would be important, but also what would be the follow-up steps to remedy the problem, right? To make sure it doesn't occur again and also how are those police, the two police that were involved going to be held accountable? So it doesn't mean that they have to say, yes, well, this is going to be the discipline, so I don't need that, but what would be the way that they would be held accountable so that then we can check in on that later to make sure they were held accountable? So those are some of the things too that I'd like to hear about is coming in. So let me respond as the person who is responsible for setting the agenda for the town council, okay? Everything you've mentioned tonight is more than one meeting. So we need to decide what we want to focus on in the time that we have this coming Monday night. And it sounds to me like the most important thing to focus on is getting the updated reports and the report from the police chief and having a discussion about that with some questions and answers. The problem that I'm faced with and I'm the one that has to juggle the many, many demands on the council's calendar is we also have other things we've got to do and we as a council have not discussed the seven issues that you have raised even though you have discussed them as a CSSJC. So, and that was part of what we were hoping to do a little bit of last meeting, which didn't happen. And everybody, not everybody, but many of the counselors said they wanted to see the updated reports and they wanted to see it. So I wanna manage expectations of what we can get done in an hour on Monday night. And that's just a reality of a meeting this last time, finally at midnight one of our counselors made a motion to adjourn and we did not finish our agenda. So I appreciate that, Lynn, before we go on to the next person, I just want to ask in general and maybe it's rhetorical, but is there a possibility of the CSSJC, the Human Rights Commission and the town council or some members trying to figure out process because this is one instance. You know, we all hope to live a long life of many experiences. And so something else is gonna come up. And I think it's important to the residents, least to this resident that we have a process in which we could have not only a substantive discussion because I just don't want it to be, you know a discussion with feelings and everyone emoting and all of that, but getting to some results. And how are we to do that with open meeting law and these different entities that are now at play, thank goodness because this is what we push for to broaden to make the table bigger. How do we do that as a community? And so I'm saying that rhetorically because I think it's really important and that these are meetings that would take place to have results and not just, you know everyone has their opinion, everyone has emotions but how do we get to some results that work for this community? So Ms. Pat. Okay, so first I want to say that I also listening to the town council meeting last Monday and I appreciated how productive, robust and raw it was, you know for most of the councillors what they spoke. It really sent very strong message to those youth and their families that money is to be done. And I thank each and councillors that really thought about the kids first. I want to leave it that way for some reason I'm struggling to be really positive tonight because I have harsh words to say about three other councillors that I felt that they were gaslighting, furthering, dividing our community but I'm not going to go there tonight. I think that when I also want to acknowledge that our town is trying in terms of diversity, inclusion whatever, but I don't think we're really ready about it because our actions shows it. Why is it when it comes to issues that affects BIPOC folks, we don't have enough time? Where are we placing priorities of some of our most vulnerable residents in our town? I watched the last town council where actions were taken about Jones Library and that is just a building. I watched when the finance director they came up with a fund to be set aside for capital fund or something like that and then I watched how the cash reserve that was allocated, reparation got the least amount of money allocated to it. I do appreciate the two million in 10 years but I have news for you guys. Some of us may not even be alive to benefit from it. And I appreciate what our committee are doing. I appreciate it, but while I can't speak for all black community, but what I'm hearing is that we're being played by the white establishment in this town. Give me a break. There are more than two, you know, couple thousand blacks and then you want to be putting in money for the next 10 years to do what? Is that what reparation we're talking about here? So my point is, are we really ready for diversity, for inclusion? Are we really ready for that? When I hear one hour for meeting on Monday, that is not acceptable to me. Until I believe in action, I believe in quality. We need to get this right. We are almost, next month it will be holiday, people will get distracted. Inaction doesn't mean it will go away. I promise you guys, it's not going to go away. So if there is a way we can move certain issues, furthermore, it will be better. This incident happened July 5th, more than three months. These families are part of our community. Why are we treating them less? And I sympathize that Town Council have a lot of issues on the agenda. I really don't care because I think this is important. This is the first time since last year that we have majority BIPOC folks in certain town commuting. You guys want us to, you know, want us and when we participate, we are accused of attacking people. We are accused of being disruptive. We are giving all kinds of names. The one that some people of color don't want to join any committee because some of us don't want talking. We don't want to be part on the back just to make everybody happy. History will judge each and every one of us what we've done in this town to move our community forward. So my point is, Monday better be productive. I'm not interested in hashing out and just talking feelings, feelings, feelings and stuff. What are we going to do to heal these nine people, nine youth and their families? So Ms. Lynn, if you can have that conversation with the town manager and the police and the chief police, you know, is there going to be apology coming out? You know, is there going to be a strong statement from our town officials? That would mean a lot to the victims, basically. Would the town council direct the town manager to set up compensation funds? At least make a promise that it will happen. Without all this together with you, it's a waste of time. And the BIPOC families and the youth, they have made it clear. They don't want to meet with any police officer. They don't want outreach from them and they don't want to eat pizza with them. They have not apologized. There is no accountability. Nothing has been, they haven't been made whole. Why would they want to? It's like, it's like somebody telling an accident abuser to have pizza with them, which are victim in domestic violence. Like I say, power structure right there. So if we really want to do this right, we need to commit time and action. I'm tired of talk, talk, talk for the past three months. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Allegra? So I think that there are some things on our agenda that are like overarching things that we would like to see happen forever when it comes to policing and community safety in Amherst. And I think that there are some things that are more time-sensitive such as the Victim Compensation Fund or the Justice Compensation Fund as we discussed last meeting and the reports from the police. So I don't know if focusing down onto those two things would be agreeable to members of this committee in order to continue to keep the Amherst Nine at the forefront of things and also to try and to have some concrete action around healing for those families. So I guess that would be my suggestion. I don't know if that makes sense to other committee members. So I can just speak for me and I appreciate what Ms. Pat brought to the forefront so passionately. It's about the young people and the Victim Compensation Fund, whatever we wanna call it, should be at the forefront of that to begin healing. That to me would show these families that the town does care about their wellbeing, you know, mental health, whatever they might use it to feel more whole. It won't obviously bring justice but it's a start. And I think that should be first and foremost. And then secondly, what we've been asking for is a clearer view of what occurred on the police's part. And you know, I found it very problematic that some members of the town council, not only this past one, but in the August one even faced with what Chief Livingstone, if you go back to that meeting in August, Chief Livingstone basically describes from his vantage point, what occurred. And it becomes these minors that they did something wrong. And yes, they were out past midnight, they were, you know, it's about driving, you know, the law, the state law, about them driving and they're underage but they didn't do anything criminal and the police were the adults. And so until we grapple with that scenario as adults ourselves, then we are indeed failing these young people. So, you know, in terms of what I'd like to see, just what Allegra, you know, mentioned that some of this is time sensitive, I'd like to get that over and done with. And then we move on, maybe another meeting to talk about what really happens next in terms of adequate training, how does our police force work with the state guidelines of post, for instance, and any other means to make sure that their interactions with youth don't result in this same thing. So that's what I see as priorities for the hour. I do think an hour is too little time but in terms of priorities, that's what I see. I'd like to hear from our group. Freke, you haven't spoken all night. You've been more quiet than usual. I've been listening to the conversation and everyone has said a lot and there wasn't much for me to add. I'd like to thank the council members who are here tonight and I look forward to the meeting on Monday. I don't think we'll ever have enough time but I do think we should prioritize and reducing it at least to what is more time sensitive would be the appropriate way to go. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else in our group? Yeah, I mean, again, yeah, I think that the compensation fund, the healing for the Amherst Nine, but also the report, the outcome of that report and what's gonna come out from that report. I'm not saying trainings and long-term stuff. I'm just talking immediate in terms of accountability of the two police officers. Pam? There are two participants who have raised their hands. Are they council members? One is council Dorothy P.M. Yes. Oh, okay, so they're part of our group. Thank you for letting me know. I do wanna mention right quick though, there's models for compensation funds and actually Pam Young looked up some of these models. So there is a reference point for communities providing such compensation funds. Are you going to bring them in, Pam? Okay, thank you. So Pam mentioned, Darcy, Pam, yeah, okay. Thank you, Pam. Dorothy, and someone, if you could turn off your microphone, I know that I do that all the time too. Okay. Dorothy, yes. All right, so I have a suggestion. So many of the things you've mentioned, as Lynn will point out, require discussion, debate and take a long time. And so the question is what can be done in an hour and perhaps the first step could be taken in an hour which would be some statement of apology. That's my suggestion. Thank you. Thank you, Dorothy. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing. I mean, I am struggling with that as Ms. Pat is, like an hour, I mean, what is really gonna be accomplished in an hour? You see what I'm saying? I'm like, isn't there any way to have more time to really get into this? Because how are we gonna discuss everything, even those two priority items in an hour? Agreed, that is the struggle. I totally agree with the struggle, but I don't have a great resolution, although one of the suggestions that was made on Monday, the third was the idea of a retreat in which there would be a whole lot more time. A joint retreat with the Council, CSSJC and the Human Rights Commission. So what does that mean though? I guess I would need more clarity in terms of what that means. And we haven't done anything more than just, it's only been discussed and it's not been outlined as what would it mean? And it means probably an all day commitment on behalf of all of the members of our different groups. Yeah, I mean, I get that, but I guess my question would be, obviously this is pressing matter of the Amherstine, which I know we at the CSSJC are very committed to, which is really getting them some resolution, right? Even if they're never gonna feel whole because of what happened on July 5th, but at least addressing their healing and obviously what happened by the police and accountability. So there's that. And then, so are we able, I guess I'll pose a question to you then, are we able to get through that in an hour? And then obviously, yeah, the retreat, because yeah, and then the retreat would come afterwards, I guess, which that's fine. Well, addressing the Amherstine, could we do that in an hour? Whether it could be discussed during that hour and a resolution that we come to by the end of the hour, I doubt the second part, we could start the discussion. But I think then the question is, are we going to take any time to look at the updated reports and the report from the police? And if we are, then I've got an agenda problem. And I'm just gonna tell you, I've already thrown three things off the agenda that I can throw off and wait without consequences for subsequent things. And I mean, I'm just trying to balance everybody's demands and needs at this point. And I hear you, I'm just trying to balance it, that's all. So could the reports would have to come out in time for it to be included in the packet, right? So could the reports be sent to the chairs or somehow can the reports, can we see the reports and then have some, maybe some questions from our group for you all to address. But I, in many ways what Dorothy presented, if there are one to two things that we could agree to accomplish within this next town council meeting or have you all work with us to accomplish for the town council meeting. So Dorothy mentioned an apology, but I have to go back to what Ms. Pat said. For it to have meaning for these families, they've asked for a victim compensation fund. So no matter how we interpret that interaction, these young people and their families feel that they have been harmed. So, if we're again serious as a community about trying to provide some healing to these young people and their families, give them the victim compensation fund and have the council vote and agree on that. That's our discussion, I'm sure. So the concept would be that the reports would be completed, they would be in the packet, as soon as they're in the packet, they can be sent to all of the chairs of any of the committees, okay? And that all that we would do is ask questions. Now, I just wanna point out, this will be the first time counselors are seen and they're going to have questions as well, okay? That's just part of it. Whether or not we will be prepared to have a full discussion about a victim compensation fund on by Monday is I think a big ask. The question is whether we'd be prepared to vote and I will just tell you, I don't think so. Because it's not, there's a lot of legalities, including the fact that right now, the legislature, we would have to go to the legislature for special legislation to give money to individuals. And several of you are aware of that because that is what we've had to also say to the AHRA and in a meeting that I held with them and then we shared the protocol with the council. At this point, it is not legal for the town of Amherst to give individuals money. So I understand that and the victim compensation fund could be crafted different ways. I hope we have Pam Young with some guidance here as well, but it's about accountability. So not reparations and I'm just, it sounds like it's going back into not only the issue of legality, but not wanting to, and I'm not saying you personally, Lynn, but the council, the town trying to make the youth and the families whole. So I think that needs to be at the center of the discussion. However, we could do that. The other thing, and then I'll go to my other members here, I think we have to choose. Either we discuss at this next meeting, the Victim Compensation Fund or the police report, it's gonna be, as you're saying, even with more extended time committing, it might be very difficult to have a discussion about both of those things at the same time. So I'm not one for retreats. Personally, it's not something I like to do because I've been to too many DEI, diversity workshop trainings. I've given them myself. And unless there are some real goals and actionable type of steps, I would not be enthusiastic and spend in a whole day just to have a conversation. Okay, so I'm just saying, so if any of that should be part of this discussion, we have to talk about, so what are we getting out of it in terms of process and for the community? And I'm not gonna speak for the rest of the group, but me personally. So I'll go to, is it Allegra next? I don't know, but. So Allegra, Allegra first. So I think my, I'm just trying to be a realist here and I'm thinking like we have now been talking about what we're going to talk about at this meeting for over an hour. So I don't know how we're gonna talk about a topic in an hour, but I think whatever topic we choose to talk about for an hour, what I would ask the town council to do is agree to have further discussions about it before a two month window has gone by again. I think part of the frustration I was having sitting in on the meeting on October 3rd was that it sounded as if many of the councilors wanted to have discussions and wanted to have updates and wanted to hear more about it and wanted to discuss things more. But time has passed, there are other things. We're all busy people. And I just, I don't want the message to be we're gonna keep kicking the can down the road and nothing ever come to fruition because we're busy discussing, discussing things and not actually acting. And so I guess my hope would be that whatever we do discuss, whatever does not get discussed gets put onto an agenda in the near future for town council to further discuss before we discuss it with them at another discussion. I think. I think I got that train of thought. Well said Allegra. And the council does just as you have meetings and you have had very, very intense and thorough discussions of all of this, the council has not. And that's what I think is part of the stopping. That's what's blocking us right now as a council. And I, yeah. Okay, and when you say what's blocking you as the council, it's the process. Is that what you're saying? It's the time to have the discussion. It's not, I mean, there's process. You know, I hate to say this, but if you're working with government, you can process people to death. Thank you. I agree with that frustration with government, okay? But the reality is it's time to have the discussions. And that's what I think the council to has not had is time. And I, you know, a couple of months ago, I tried to add another meeting in and I got shut down on that one fast. Real quick, and then go to Ms. Pat. I think one of the things that's at the core of this and the frustration for us is that, you know, we come out of the CSWG and now we're the CSSJC and it's like we are supposed to give guidance regarding these issues. And it's like, you know, we're not being utilized and trusted to have, to suggest, you know, what the community needs, what and how to meet those needs. And so I think that's also a little bit part of our frustration because we're trying to authentically and sincerely fulfill this role. And how does that work and operate when we, when Ms. Pat has been in contact with these families, they trust her, that is what we wanted in terms of having a committee like this, someone that could, you know, do that type of outreach. You know, people pay thousands of dollars for that type of outreach and she's done it here because she's a trusted member of the community. They went to her. And so, you know, then how does the council now take and utilize what we've presented in also a sincere and authentic way? I think there's the, like you say, it's there's bit of this standstill, but we want to be valued for what we're bringing to the council and what we've been placed in to do. Right. So, I mean, let me just, you know, D, you and I've talked before, I think Allegra and Anna and you and I spoke about any number of ways to proceed. But again, one of the things that, and maybe I accept full responsibility for not writing a letter of people one wanted to use, but one of the things I was trying to do was I say, you know, here's where we are in each of these. Here's what the council can do. Here's what some other group, maybe CSSJC needs to do next. Let's acknowledge this, let's do this. I was in fact trying, I'm sorry if I'm frustrated. Maybe it's my time to just be frustrated. I was trying to in fact help us figure out a path forward. And if I didn't do it well, I accept that. But I'm trying to figure out how we can take the different steps that you all pointed out in your letter. Some of many of which, not all, but many of which came from the CSWG. And you referenced that in the letter and having read those reports thoroughly and develop the initial matrix, I recognized them as being directly from the CSWG. How can we take those pieces? And the thing that would be, I think most useful for us coming from CSSJC is working with us and figuring out who's gonna do what to move this forward. And in the process, this event occurred and it's kind of become the only thing that people wanna talk about because they can't move on without that. And so I'm trying to figure out a way. I hear you, and I actually, I think it's a great opportunity. So I hear what you're saying, but I really see it as an opportunity to not only do what we've been, to walk in the walk, right? This is our opportunity in this town to actually do what we have been for the past year, over a year saying that we are committed to. And so here is a group that has that commitment and wants to get us to kind of stand in that space and do what we said we were gonna do as a community. This is our moment. And so I really, as a person who really dearly loves the people in this community, let's do that. Let's figure out a way to get past this by doing what's right. And so I'm gonna stop on that because I go to tears quickly, but I truly believe that this is our moment to stand in those shoes, to stand here and do what's right. All what we've said, all the stuff we've written up so many times. I just looked at the DEI website, all of that. Let's do it. Ms. Pat. So couple of observations. So I want to say that, Lynn, I watched last week Town Council where you expressed frustration in my culture. It's actually a strength. That's part of leadership. Tonight I state that too, that's not the wrong with that. For somebody from another culture, it took me a long time. Even today I still struggle with that. Like if you show your emotion, people misinterpreted, it wasn't a weakness at all. That's the way it's supposed to be. I appreciate your leadership. I appreciate everybody's time. I know your position is not easy. This is what I'm thinking, okay? In terms of apology, if apology is sent to us, I don't think it needs to be rehashed at the meeting on Monday, unless if we have questions, so we, you know, it's not strong enough. I think if we can get commitment from the Town Council that they will indeed support all, that they support the compensation fund. I'm not expecting a vote on Monday, obviously, because people need to discuss it. You know, we have to honor Town Council process. But what I'm looking for is like a commitment. Like this is what the families and the youth want. Okay, if I hear a majority of the Town Council willing to continue the discussion in your future meetings, I think it will give the youth and their families some hope. I also, at the report, you know, if it can be out, I'm repeating what, you know, that folks, you know, for us to read, it will alleviate a lot of anxiety and curiosity about instead of going into the meeting and then having the, you know, the police chief discussing what he wrote. We want to say, you know, send it ahead of time. It will save a lot of time, I think, you know. I think for me, and I can't speak for everyone, I'm not feeling the retreat, unfortunately. People who know me very well, personally, professionally, when I commit to people, I try to do my best. This family's majority of BIPOC folks, you know, chose me to speak for them, obviously, because they are protecting, you know, their kids, confidentiality, and they should, you know, that's the law, is their right. And I wouldn't feel comfortable going into any retreat this year until these families are made whole. And the last thing I want to say is that compensation does happen, people do get paid with special education. And I know what I'm talking about, I don't want to be specific or mentioning names. The school system have, you know, paid for compensation in different forms. Of course, sometimes it will go through hearing, the school get ordered to do X, Y, and Z. So why is that different, compensation different? When I hear that, you know, our town cannot pay people out individually, I'm like, hmm, what about settlement, you know, what about, you know, people who feel, you know, for whatever reason, settlements happens. Is it the name that we're given to it? You know, if we call it settlement, would that be different? So I'm not sold with the fact that, you know, our town cannot pay out, you know, money individually. Special education does that in different ways. I've known where the school system has, you know, asked some parents to find alternative services, you know, for the care, you know, for their, I don't want to get into too much. And the parents are giving the money to pay for the services. It has happened. I know what I'm talking about, because I'm a special education advocate. So I know what I'm talking about. Thank you. And Pat, I appreciate it. My son is a special ed student. My son too. Yeah. So, and I've been at those tables, wondering why I wasn't getting this, that, or the other thing. And I didn't have the disadvantage you did of being Black. So, but I, the question is, were those funds paid directly to the people, or were they paid to some service or some school for the people to attend those schools? I don't want to go into details that are different types of settlement. And, you know, that was made, that people cannot discuss, but parents have been paid directly, you know, for services that they requested. And yes, it has gone directly financially, yes. But I don't want to say too much. I never ask anybody to reveal anything that would be personal. Yeah. And I think to Ms. Pat's point, I think it is the job of the town council and of course our attorneys to figure out how that is to occur, just like they advise for the AHRA. The town council, of course, has to discuss it and approve it. So that's the town council's role. But I think that is the town's job to figure out how that is to happen. We just need the will. Phillip. Yeah, I will echo a lot of what Ms. Pat's thinking, that I guess we're speaking some words out of my mouth that I was gonna say, but I will say that having the report sent ahead of time, I think we'll save a lot of time and easy to then just figure out questions that individual members have for the report. Sounds great. And then a commitment to look into a compensation from, fun from the town council, I think is reasonable. I think that it is difficult to try and vote on anything, especially within an hour timeframe. So that commitment would be great and continued conversation. I do wanna point out though and think that this conversation and this type of interaction I was at the meeting last Monday, I saw how long that was and how frustrating that was for town council members and people having these conversations, having been brought into it. You know, there was a suggestion to have us be come into the town council meeting November 7th. That would have pushed the issue way back further. I really appreciate us trying to get this issue as a top priority. And I do see that being taken. And so I really do appreciate that. And I will say that where I may disagree with Ms. Pat is that I would be open to a retreat, but I also went and thinking about it and listening to it, maybe how the town has finance committees, whatever committees it is, maybe we make a standing committee to look at this issue, then to bring back to the overall town council because I do agree with you as well that being a part of a retreat that is just kind of a kumbaya type of retreat, as opposed to a actionable retreat is very different. And I would like to see an actionable type of either retreat or standing committee, whatever that is. And I will say that when we, when AHRA or what became AHRA came to us with that, that's we created a committee within a finite period with a charge to come back to us. And then once they started talking about compensation, we provided them with the process by which we would have to get to that point and then set up a time that Michelle just, and the whole committee actually met with our town attorney to talk about some of the issues around that. And it was, I think, very informative. I wasn't there for that part of it. I was there to just talk about the process and that I think was very useful for them. So thank you. And I think it is nine, but I wanna get to everyone's comments. An ongoing fund would be preferable so we wouldn't have to do this again, right? So some type of ongoing fund, like with the AHRA that when unfortunate incidences like this occur, then it would already be set up. So the process wouldn't just be for a singular incident. Deb, Deb, right? I don't know, because now I see Michelle's hand up too, but yeah. So yeah, time is passing. I have my 13-year-old, I need to get to. So hopefully this is wrapping up. If not, I'm leaving in like 10 minutes. Basically, I'm just letting you all know. So in terms of a way forward, and I heard police report, I heard reports should only be the police report. That's what we're interested in and finding out about, right? So Pamela's report can wait until the next meeting or what have you, Pamela, it's gonna do a report. So the police report is what we're interested in. So the police report is what we focus on. Second, as everybody has said, in terms of a message to the Amherstine, it would be in terms of, yes, an apology, we hear you, we're committed to you, right? You all can do all that. And in terms of a compensation fund, do a timetable, right? Explain the process, do a timetable and say exactly what you can do by when. And if there are resources that are available right now that's not tied into the compensation fund, put that in the message, right? So as Ms. Pat said and others said, there's other ways to go around supporting these youths and their families without it needing to be the legislative compensation fund, which might take time. Okay, I get that, but timetabling, right? So all of that can happen even the message or what have you even before the meeting and then at the meeting, we wanna talk about the report. Okay, so in terms of an hour, those are the things that can happen in an hour. And then lastly, in terms of a retreat, I mean, I have heard folks say, not interested. I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing if there are some actionable items to get to because I wanna know, right? What our structure is at CSSJC and how we work with the town council, what are we supposed to do? Because I'm hearing there's a lot of confusion, right? So a retreat where we actually are there talking about some of these issues, whether we need to do bylaws, whether we need to do whatever might be beneficial, right? So actionable items. HRC needs that too, because HRC is saying that there's certain powers that they don't have in place. So having the meeting with town council members, us and HRC with some actionable items at the end of the day, I would not be a post-wit. And the other part is I don't know a lot of y'all. I know some of you have all these relationships with the town councilors outside of work of these meetings. Sorry, I have a 13-year-old, I have an 18-year-old, I have a work, I have my elderly mom. I have a lot of stuff going on in my life and I don't have a lot of time to be out and about doing this, that and the third. So yes, a retreat where we'd be there for a day with some actual meeting and discussing them of these things might be beneficial so that then when we go to these meetings, we actually know each other and we can actually have these types of conversations at hopefully a deeper level, right? As opposed to a lot of times superficial or sometimes feeling antagonistic, right? So I'm just throwing that out there that some of us members would actually benefit. Thank you, Deb, and I appreciate the concrete items that yes, that sounds doable for the next town council meeting. And I'm gonna agree with you about, again, if it's actionable items that we're working on in a retreat, I'd be down for that. So Michelle. Thank you for giving me a quick opportunity. I'll make this really quick. I really just wanna build on actually what Deb just said. A lot of what Deb just says is exactly what I was going to say is for me, as a counselor listening in on this, it's become really clear. And I just, Ms. Pat, really wanna genuinely thank you for being the person that has been liaison to these families. And I think that that's a really critical role and in a person that we really need to appreciate that role that you're playing. And it's really become clear to me that what these families feel would be the most restorative piece of this is to have this Victims or Justice Compensation Fund. And so from my perspective as a counselor, it feels like we need to sort of head, really deal with that head-on, that request. And what I would ask Lynn and similar to actually what you were saying, Lynn, is I think that it would be really helpful for counselors to have an understanding of what a Victim Compensation Fund is, in what other purposes is it used, whether it has been used locally or in other places throughout the country, if there are other models for it. I think an educational component because I think some counselors might hear it and really just immediately kind of be unsure about it or maybe have opposition to it if they don't have all the information. And then also adding to that, I think having legal advice is really important. So we don't wanna spin our wheels. I feel like we really have to have an understanding from a legal opinion about what the town can and cannot do because there may be ways to do this that aren't direct payments. I think it's sort of grasping the essence of what is being asked to make the youth and their families feel whole in this situation is what's most important. And then I see the retreat separately and I've talked to Lynn a bit about this already. If there were to be a retreat or a time where we would have to spend together, it would be, as Deb said, to really build the relationships and talk about how we want to be in relationship with one another. All three, two committees, the town council, how do we want to be in relationship, building trust, building ways that we can support one another, that we can fulfill our missions and our charge as human beings and as these entities that we make up. And so that's where I would see having a retreat being really important or maybe really valuable to kind of frame some of that out with some really clear objectives. So thanks for the opportunity. Thank you. Allegra. Thank you, Michelle, for that. I just, what you said kind of, I read this article today actually called Reparations for Police Violence and it did talk not only about direct payments and it did cite two different cities, both Chicago and Philadelphia have made some reparations and what was included in both of those was a formal apology on behalf of the town or the police department in some cases, both an educational component. So teaching the kids in Chicago about what had gone on with the police department and how they had been torturing black men into giving false confessions and making a place available for people to go and get healing whether that was through mental health services, job training services. So not unlike the youth empowerment and the BIPOC cultural centers that CSWG has recommended and that we are still hoping will come to fruition. So I do think and I like that it frames it in the way of reparations thinking as well about the work that the assembly is doing. So I just wanted to mention that as an article that was helpful for me in thinking about this and I think that the families are asking for all of these things in a way. So I do think there is some precedents out there for funds and for apologies and for services. So I just wanted to say that. Thank you, Allegra. Pam, is it a possibility of adding that article to the last part of the packet or are we able to add things retrospectively like that? I do not know, but I could certainly if Allegra would send it to me, send it out to the rest of the committee. I would just have to check on the open meeting was about adding additional, I don't know the answer. Or it could just be sent to the committee, but I think it would be helpful. Thank you for bringing that to our attention, Allegra. Or I could send it to the packet for the town council meeting. In general, if an item has been mentioned within a meeting, it can be added after the fact. Thank you. At least I think that's what I've learned from Athena, who is my expert on this issue. So I miss Pat, I'm gonna give it to you, but I also want to suggest it is 921. We had at least two more items on the agenda that are particularly important to budget that we table that for the next meeting. And I don't know how the rest of us feel about that, but if that's, yep, yep. We're tabling the last two items. Freke, I need a thumbs up or thumbs down. What's going on? All right, thank you. Okay, Miss Pat. You know, I feel hopeful with all the discussions. I feel that people spoke from their heart tonight. One thing I forgot to mention about the compensation fund, the idea is to have the town select an organization, have that organization handle the payment. It will be similar to what the town is already doing with housing, subsidy, whatever, like have another organization handle the money, not the town paying individuals directly, but have the town pay the money to organization, the organization then disposed the money. It's what I wanted to mention. If that makes sense to people. Yes. It does make sense. What those funds generally do is pay whoever's providing the service or the housing or whatever, and they pay directly to the landlord or that kind of thing. No, what I'm trying to say is that the town, select an organization, pay them administrative fees, but then that organization then pays the MS-9 cash for them to do whatever healing means to individual youth and their families. It's what I meant. Because I know that organizations, they do get administrative fees when they help with programming in our town. I know that. That's what I meant. I don't mean like the organization paying for therapists directly. We don't want that. They don't want that. So it sounds like those are things, as Michelle had mentioned, would also have to be looked at with the attorney and how that might work in terms of process, as we said. Okay, Anika? I'm having trouble meeting myself. So, well, thank you all. This has definitely been informative. And I do agree that it definitely sounds like we will need a thorough, if not legal review, at least advice because the way that compensation is being suggested. I just, in my non-expert opinion, see all types of red tape and absolutely just from what I understand is within our purview or ability. And I also, I felt very similar. And I guess maybe in certain ways I do when I hear retreat, but it is true that many of us do not know each other aside from maybe faces. And often that, in many ways, we do not. But I also think that we also begin with holding space at really just how much frustration there is around this. I think that you have some people when talking about the youth involved here, the frustration and what's behind it comes from decades and eons of these type of instances going on. And I think the conversation, at least I'm not aware, and I haven't heard one person in council discuss a debate on whether or not police misconduct or brutality exists, but more what are we dealing with with this incident? And I hear that frustration, I'll admit, and I've shared with one of your members when I hear Amherstine being used, it just like, it just stirs my soul because I think of the Little Rock Nine and I think of these nine black youth there was no question of who they were. There was no question whatsoever and they're there with their city, state, and that national guard in front of them. Basically, we hate you, you're not welcome. This is pre-civil rights. And to think that all of this frustration, we're here now when this is being used to describe this incident aside from rhyming. And I think that this is also something just dealing with where that is coming from. And a lot of us just speaking for myself, we haven't seen reports, we haven't seen anything. There's conflict and I don't think anyone is doubting that there are people hurting and that obviously we all know. I think all of us know here, we do not need to be lawyers to know that youth have rights. You know, so I do hope that there are further discussions not only move us to paths where processes are there. So in addition to getting to know each other, in addition to having retreats, we have clear paths of where do we go from here? You know, so we're not having discussions on whether something exists in the world or not because we know it does and really can direct us to is this what's going on? Did this happen and how do we deal with it? And right now we do not have those systems in place and we're dealing with a lot of state laws. So my hope aside from that is we really just have some clear facts and we know how we can proceed whether that is compensation, you know, further conversation or whatever that is. But with that, you know, thank you all again. And also I just, I do wanna add Ms. Pat, you know, I've had very few conversations with you but it's very obvious that you are a very caring person. And I hope that, and I can see that you care deeply and I hope that, you know, you and with Pamela Young especially who I'm so grateful that we have with us here can really be able to facilitate. So I'm sure whatever would need to happen cannot happen just within your charge. You know, that's impossible to make sure that though we need to protect the youth and their families there is someone where we can actually like if it does come to whether it is checks or whatever it is obviously they have to be written to someone. So, you know, I just, I hope that we can move from a circular conversation more to facts and I do have to leave shortly too but I wish you all a great night and I look forward to talking to you soon. Thank you, Anika. Are there any other comments, questions, clarifications, Lynn? I hope that this gives you, I'm sure much more than you were expecting but actually something, you know, useful I think from each of our members from Phillip to Allegra to Deb to Ms. Pat some concrete request, right? In which to frame the conversation. I really do wanna say thank you. This is, these kinds of conversations for me are educational, they're challenging. I have to tell you on Tuesday after our meeting when in fact I did cry at the meeting. Pamela shared with me that she thinks that people, she does that when she cares deeply about something. And so I thank you for appreciating that side of this as well. I also really wanna thank you. These are the kinds of conversations that need to happen in Amherst and I am more than willing to return any time that you would like me to and you can continue to, you know, say it the way you say it, Pat, Ms. Pat as she does in my district two meetings. So thank you. I appreciate it greatly. Pam has her hand up. Yes. So I know that you're thinking about adjourning but before you adjourn, I just wanted to point out that there's a one attendee with their hand raised and so you might wanna have public comments again before you adjourn. Thank you, Pam, for the reminder of public comment. Yes, good. We definitely want to do that. So I appreciate it. You're gonna let them in. Thank you for waiting so long to comment. Yeah. Hi, this is Vera Cage. I'll be very quick. 12 and one that'll drive Department 21 Amherst. I want to refer everyone to an article that came out today in the Daily Hampshire Gazette front page written by Dusty Christensen. And I shared it on my Facebook in case you can't access it, the print. But it talks about doing public records request on the behalf of the newspaper for the police department. And it took about two years and because there were so many appeals because Amherst police weren't forthcoming or transparent and they redacted a lot of what they were able to furnish with respect to discipline and internal investigations. So personally as a resident of Amherst, I'm not and elsewhere to police our professional liars, they're in court taking the stand lying. I've been in the courtrooms, I've witnessed this play out so I'm not naive to the fact that police lie. And I am concerned that, and I appreciate Deborah's comment about pulling out the fact that, our DEI officer is not privy to any reports, to any interview, to any work product that produce the report or to, so that's a missed opportunity I think on the town manager's part to make this position so disempowering, the fact that she's not at the table during collective bargaining with the police. When you're talking about police union contracts, that is such a key department with regards to safety in this community. I think that's a missed opportunity. The other point was, I appreciate Mr. Miller's report on the Crest program. I former organizer always will be an organizer. I hope that there's some focus towards community building and prevention and not just Crest responding to phone calls that deploy them, that we are able to use this as an opportunity to organize and to do this participatory action research projects with students, with parents, with community members to bring people to the table, provide stipends, give incentives, do that work towards building that teen empowerment center, the BIPOC center. These are all things that are interconnected and related and you have talent at the table. Appreciate Ms. Pat saying that. And you have a phenomenal time where the town of Bammers, you have Black women leadership and the town council needs to follow the lead of these Black women. Who are the moms of our children? So let's focus on trusting the people that are appointed to make recommendations. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments in the audience, Pam? Nope, okay. So if there are no other further comments from our group or questions, we do have to set a date for our next meeting and then we can make a motion to adjourn. So all the town council members, thank you again. I hope this has been helpful. I think for our group it's been helpful and we look forward to the next town council meeting. So CSSJC people, do we want to set a meeting tonight? Yeah. Yes, I have a suggestion. Is it possible, let me throw this out to people. Does Wednesday, every second Wednesday, does that work for everybody? What is today? Today is second Wednesday, correct? Yeah. Does that work for everybody? Just for my own sanity, I like. Consistency. Yeah. It is helpful. I have one point of consideration, which is that if we met the first Wednesday next month, it would be before the public forum for budget. So if we were thinking, we might want to present a letter at that forum. When is the forum again? The forum is November 7th. So if we met on the second, which would be the first Wednesday instead of the second Wednesday, then potentially we could have something to go to that meeting with and read or submit via public comment. So that we're saying as a committee, at least funding for Cress and DEI, we would like to see these things. So that works for me. What about the rest of the group? It's tight for me. Okay. So that's November 2nd, is what we're talking about. Yeah, it's very tight for me. Because if it's the 9th, then it's after the meeting. Yeah. I mean- We can't not submit something post-meeting, but just- Yeah, but we have, so you all are saying like, so are we meeting every other week or you all are just saying every second Wednesday, like once a month? Every second, yeah. I don't want to meet every other week. Okay. The rest of the year. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, then I can't help. So either or for me, but it sounds like Ms. Pat, you're only able to meet on the 9th, you're saying? Yeah. So if we submitted a letter after the fact, it wouldn't have as much impact, but if we submitted it before, we could send it to Pam. And how would we do that to not violate open meeting law? Ms. Pat? Okay. My understanding of supporting DEI and Deborah helping out if I missed the mark is that we solicit input from them. What are their needs in their department? Do you need how, office manager, whatever, and then we help to advocate for those items. It looks like it's, my understanding is each department come up with their priorities that they submit to the time manager or finance committee. Our role, I'm hoping that we will go to the finance committee meeting and if we need to advocate or whatever, during public comments, we can do that. This is what we think Chris need. This is what we think the department need, but it needs to come from our two administrators. It's my understanding. Deborah, you can chip in. No, no, no. I mean, yeah, I don't have anything else to add. Yeah, that would. Yeah, we don't do the budget. We don't come up with the budget, right? I know CSWG, we have budget that we did, but things have changed a lot since that time. So I think, our two administrators need know what their needs are. If they can communicate that to us, then we can support to advocate for the funding. So then we write the letter. Wait, actually, so like I said, unfortunately, I have to go. Yeah, sorry. We need to go. So the last thing, like you all heard when I was saying to Lynn that for the 17th, I already have this other community meeting that I'm meeting from 6730. So I don't know if we're doing any presentation or anything. So don't don't put me on for any of that, because obviously I'm going to try to, you know, join whenever my other meeting is done. So, you know, we just want to put that out there. Okay. But yeah. I don't remember the second and the ninth you're available. I'm available either of those. Okay, great. Whichever one you all decide on. Okay. All right, folks, it's been real. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. So if all and Pamela can email our group, like this is their priorities, then we can advocate for them. Okay, I don't think we need to meet. I don't think we need to meet before the finance committee public comments. Okay. At the leadership meeting that we had earlier, I could maybe on Monday, Sean and Gano said that he would be sending out forms and for each of the departments with the proposed budget. So we haven't gotten that information, but it's going to be forthcoming. And then there will be an opportunity for each of the department managers to review. And make suggestions. So that process is starting to take place, but it hasn't taken place yet. And I'm assuming that it would be completed before the November meeting date, but obviously this is my first town going through the budget process. But I know that Sean, I have plans to sit down and meet with him. I met with him when I first arrived, but plans to sit down and meet with him again to talk about a budget for DEI. I think that Sean and Paul put together a placeholder budget for this first year, knowing that there would be additional things and we would really learn what the needs were as we went through the year. Okay. Thank you. So then it sounds like we'll see that later or I guess that'll be presented at that meeting, Pam, do you think? So I am unsure what's presented at that meeting, but I can certainly try to find out the sequence of events and let the committee know. I do think that it is incumbent upon Earl and I to sort of figure out what our needs are. And he, I mean, I think it's a first year, so you're really trying to figure it out as you're going. Obviously he's a lot further along in the development of Cresso. He has really identified needs that he's that he's already been observing. And for me, it's with only 90 days in on the job, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what that budget should look like and we'll build in some things for as far as capacity, but I actually think the conversation next year at this time would be more important than the conversation this year at this time because we don't know exactly where we are headed. Okay, well, it would help for us if we're writing a letter of support to know this is how much is allotted and this is what their needs are. But at any rate, we are trying to think through it because we want to definitely support DEI and Cresso in our capacity as a CSSJC. So is this something we need to work on and send, have maybe Ms. Pat and Allegra work on it and then send to Pam, no? Okay, so. You know what your needs are. All we need to know is what you identify you need and then we, the co-chairs then write the letter to support your, that's our role. All right. Come up with a budget. You tell us what you need and then we support, we advocate for you. There's no guarantee that they will fund everything, but that's why you have us here. That's one of our support for your department and for you. Yeah. So to tell you the truth, I think they need four staff there. Even with the office manager, it's not enough because of the scope of the work involved. You know, we'll be, even though we recommended three staff. Yeah. You know, the DEI director, the assistant and office manager. I think they need one more person. So, it's a lot of people. So, Allegra and I can work on a draft. If there are ideas, Philip, Freke, Ms. Pat, send them to Pam and then she'll send them to us. That's the open meeting law process. Good. November 9th. November 9th. November 9th is the next meeting. Yeah. Okay. So. Good night, everyone. Well, no. So. Good night. Yes. Sorry. A adjourn, please. Yes. Step on there. Step on there. So, Allegra made the motion. Ms. Pat seconded all in favor. Yes. All right. Now I'm ready to have dinner. Everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Great meeting. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, councilor Dorothy. Thank you, everybody. See you on Monday.