 Well that depends whose sector we are looking at. I think there's a large amount of small holders that they don't have access to capital but there's a small group of small holders who are more connected to well who embrace more commodity crops and they are more connected to companies and global markets who have some access to capital also because that capital comes through the agreements that these small holders have with companies. Yeah but it's true that a large portion of small holders still cannot benefit from capital and if they have access to some sources of funding or finance they often they have access to informal markets because in many cases at intermediaries who provide the capital to small holders but the fact is that the capital that's coming from informal sources tends to be well it's tends to be more flexible for small holders so it works for small holders in some context but it's much more expensive and it's less reliable so they have access to capital but it's much more expensive and always I think the problem of small holder finance has been how to make this access to capital more affordable. That depends and I think that's part of the questions. I think there's a portion of the private sector that has been able to build links with small holders throughout sort of growing schemes and I think you have companies that have been able to provide capital to small holders and not that just capital but also technical assistance and to build the services into the the links that they have for small holders because they have to ensure that they have enough quality of supply and stable supply coming from these outgrowers small holders but the fact is that now companies are making commitments not to ensure supply that is clean is deforestation free and I think that's that's one of the main issues that they are struggling with is how to build these clean sources of supply that involves small holders but that is going to imply for them to build some kind of agreements with these groups of small holders that are supplying these companies so that's the big issue because the majority of small holders are independent small holders like in the oil palm sector in Indonesia. That's a good question and I think what is needed is a probably business models that are able to to share those costs probably share the cost share the risks and share the benefits because in some most of the cases you have business models that tend to transfer the cost to the producers that are upstream the supply change and also that so they are the ones who who pay for the costs. In an ideal situation the companies also should be able if they are targeting deforestation free markets they should be able if there is some reward to transfer that rewards upstream the value change so that small holders can also benefit on or receive some compensation of the cost that they are investing in improving the production systems but that's still an open question and we don't know if that's going to work in that in that way. They are probably in a difficult position because even though they may have the willingness and the capital available for investing with small holders I think the transactions costs are just very high for them to provide this capital to small holders so they really need this I don't know micro finance institutions, cooperatives so these aggregators that could channel in the money through aggregators could be a way to reduce the transaction cost of that of that lending.