 Good evening, everyone Before we start the meeting as always we ask excuse me our city clerk to read the quote for the week Madam City clerk, which please thank you Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people when we personally dislike Well the seventh in regular meeting of the common council of order. Please call the roll Boren here bow Excuse Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Myer Montemay or Rindflash Ryan Smith Vanderwheel for hassled and wongamon 15 present Quarms present olem and Hannah. Would you please lead us in the pledge of legions? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America To the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Visible liberty and justice for all. Thank you President Hanna Before we move on to approval of the minutes just wanted to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving Today is Monday Thursday is Thanksgiving. It's a time to reflect look back And give thanks for a lot of the great things that have happened in our lives and sort of just They'd go over the ones that haven't been so great in our lives. I know there's a lot of things I'm thankful for my family and I look forward to enjoying the holiday and I wish every one of you the same President Hanna minutes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor I'd moved for the approval of the minutes and also for the approval of the special Common council meeting minutes second motion and second under discussion All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries minutes stand approved Mayor's appointments turning McLean Thank you, your honor Honorable members of the council hereby submit the following appointments for your consideration To the wellness committee all the person Jean Kittleson Marion health Scott novice William Adams Jack Vander wheel Patrick Dugan Chase Longmiller Michael Williams The human resources director finance director and all the person Kisha All terms expiring For Oliver Kittleson's 4 14 0 8 all the others 4 30 0 8 signed by the mayor and that Appointments will lie over Next we have public forum and city clerk. Thank you First on the public forum would be Henry Capitola and mr. Capitola. Would you give me your home address, please? Yes, that's 1619 North 38th Street, and that's in the town of Sheboygan And you will have five minutes there. Okay? I'm here to discuss the political climate that prevails at this time and how it came about This situation is not just occurred, but has taken several years to develop The constant terminal that this administration and its supporters have fueled has fostered this political climate The following are some of the controversial issues that have loomed over this administration The the issue with the mayor accusing Former Alderman Bonet of stealing some computer disk when leaving his job within the city of Sheboygan The issue with the mayor's assistant Susan Hart and a complaint that she had against a police officer within the Sheboygan police department a questionable complaint that was filed against the police by former Alderman Ratke that turned out to be unwarranted and unsubstantiated And resulted in Alderman Ratke to write a letter of apology The potential disclosure of an issue by the mayor for former Alderman Dennis Bauman that eventually led to his resignation The accusation by former Alderman person Renee Shusha that officer Williams provided false information On the number of accidents in a police report and thereby lying to the council The accusation by former Alderman person Renee Shusha that the police had closed a street at the moot company as They measure to receive a donation for the purchase of tasers for the police department and thereby raising some concerns on her part The statement by the mayor and his supporters that the recall was racially motivated and those members of the recall were bigots and racists The action by the mayor by gaveling me during a public forum and implying that I was being disrespectful to him in the council The action by the mayor to try to sever an internet internet link between a local business and a Sheboygan police department The discussion that took place between Alderman Vicki Meyer and Alderman Bob Ryan All of these Became issues in the media and were distractions to the council How do you expect to conduct the business of the city if you are constantly Extinguishing all the brush fires that are caused by this administration and its supporters Some actions should have been taken a long time ago during some of the issues in order to set an example That there are some repercussions to people's actions I can remember when the council was considering asking the ethics committee to look into the actions of former Alderman person Renee Shusha The council's vote was tied and the mayor broke the tie to not have the ethics committee look into this issue This I believe was a turning point that basically implied that you could say and do what you wanted to do and not expect Any repercussions? How do you expect the public to react to its elected officials when they are not willing to police themselves? I would also like to ask various persons to not use the terms bigots and races as Indiscriminately without thinking of how the Sheboygan community and other communities will react to these statements Just because some people question a politician's policies and how they choose to run the city of Sheboygan That does not make them a bigot or a racist People can disagree with you and even not like you as a person, but that does not mean that you are disliked because of your race For example, I know that there are quite a few individuals that do not agree with my political views and some of my presentations to the council That does not make these individuals bigots or racists That just makes them individuals that do not agree with my views and what I have to say Another example is a letter that was sent to the editor editorial page By an individual who did not like the fact that I pointed out some crimes within the city Sheboygan during one of my presentations to the council in my view in my view the person had Just exercised his God-given right of free speech and had every right to voice his opinion Even if I did not agree with what he had to say I myself I myself choose to temper my use of the term bigots and racists because of what they mean and how Damaging they can be in a community that has various different ethnic groups. I Would like to also show you What is on a website that is WTMJ radio Where if you go to their website? It says the godfather of Sheboygan You've got Marlon Brando. Who's the godfather here? Mayor Perez and then a picture of the godfather again Is this how we want to be perceived as a community? Some of you may say well, I don't care what other other radio stations say or what the community say But I think you should because if you're trying to get people to come here as tourists to come to the city of Sheboygan I think you should care what other people think about this community You don't want them to think that this community is full of bigots and racists You want them to to feel comfortable to come here to this community and to know that There there can be descending views amongst people and and and be able to have Reasonable discussions without having any fear of any retaliations or other measures taken against them a prime example of that is What former alder person? Terry Van Akron said at the public forum on whbl He said people should be able to discuss things and difference of opinions without having to worry about vendetta's and retaliation and In that I would say That is definitely true. I think that we have to be more tolerant more open And to be able to look at other people's views and not to look at them as being Getting personal with you and like I said, there's a lot of people that disagree with me But that doesn't mean that they that I have to consider them as enemies or to try to get back at these people. It's just Things that that happened and I think you should have open discussions. Excuse me Henry. Thank you very much. Thank you Next on the list would be Mary Ryan Mary, could you give me your home address, please? 1231 North 6th Street in Sheboygan North 6 You want to bring the mic to you so that they can there you go? Thanks, and you will have five minutes. Thank you Good evening. My name is Mary Ryan. I live in Sheboygan have my entire life I'm the proud wife of alder alderman Bob Ryan. I have two small children Blake is six Abigail is three. I have a stepdaughter Ashley. She's a teenager I'm a professional in our community Bob and I have been married for almost 13 years. I can say that he's my best friend I can honestly say Bob is my other half and my life is complete with him in it Now I don't want to give him a big head because our marriage is not perfect. I Don't know any marriage that may be Marriage is a tough job a job two people need to work at every day to make it strong Bob and I have had many disagreements We'll have many more as a couple who is committed to each other. We work through those disagreements, and it's made our relationships stronger We are equals and we respect one another It's no secret that I was one of those family members that was not in favor of Bob's pursuit of alderman You ask yourself why? At the time Bob had responsibilities at far exceeded the hours in a day my concern was selfish I guess I felt the responsibility to the city would take yet more time away from our time together and our small children. I Don't feel that way any longer I'm in full support of my husband and his passion for making our city thrive I'm in support of my husband because his intentions for this job are the right intentions He is genuine about his concern for our city. He is honest sincere Caring and highly motivated. He has integrity. He has intelligence He has strong morals and values We have many in this room that share those same qualities Unfortunately, not all of us do Last Friday my husband set out to do the job that we the people of the district to elected him to do just prior to Entering these chambers. He was personally attacked by Alderperson Meyer to sum it up in my own words Alderperson Meyer delivered the punishment for speaking out against our mayor She began by making it clear to Bob that the mayor and herself were not happy with him She gave Bob a clear warning telling him to watch what he said In other words keep quiet or she would expose the so-called rumors to expose his private life I am horrified by these actions the purpose of these actions was to intimidate and threaten my husband She never once considered how the release of the information may affect me my children my professional career or my husband I Could stand here tonight and explain how this has affected me and my family But I do not believe this is simply about me and my family I am not ashamed of the rumors or facts if you will that have been made front page news I am ashamed and embarrassed by the fact that miss Meyer is an elected official in our great city Her arrogance and thinking that she could manipulate my husband's thinking and compromise his integrity is sickening to me Her actions warrant great consequence Have you asked yourself how many others were forced to compromise their beliefs to protect their family? All the person Meyer not only threatened my husband on Friday But proceeded to push the issue when she was given an opportunity by the shabuigan press to provide her side She did not deny what had transpired She proceeded to further slander my husband by saying he has mental issues She is absolutely no remorse for her actions She apparently saw nothing wrong with her conduct Some have said this issue is a distraction that it's taking away from the council conducting the business of the city This is not only a distraction, but a disgrace Serious consequence must be applied to all the person Meyer and any other public official who thinks these tactics are acceptable There is no excuse or explanation for this type of behavior in our trusted public official We have many people in this room that are here to give of themselves They are here to give their time and their talents to our city to make it a better place for all of us They are not here for self-promotion. They are here with good intention We teach our children not to bully one another in our schools Should we not follow our own advice and lead by example? We teach our children the importance of honesty and treating one another as we would like them to treat us It should be no different here Serious consequences necessary to restore integrity Ethics and basic morals and values to our council. There is no gray area to this issue I am appalled by Alderperson Meyer's behavior It is my opinion that Alderperson Meyer is unfit for public office Thank you, thank you, ma'am And last on the list would be Gary Dalmas Gary, can you give me your home address, please? 128 Crestwood Drive in Sheboygan Falls And if you want to pull the mic down so we can You can go ahead I'm Gary Dalmas chairman of the Sheboygan Development Corporation. I'm here tonight to pay tribute to Michael Muth Michael passed away this past Wednesday in Florida. I am here as a friend of Mike Muth But literally there could be hundreds and hundreds of other friends that could be here in my place Michael was one of a kind person He was strong yet loving Fair firm, but also fair Opinionated but also willing to listen to the other side. He was a leader, but also a yeoman But one thing he wasn't he wasn't afraid to take on tough issues I have never met a man who when asked to help not only rolled up his sleeves But would take off his shirt for you There would be nobody Michael wouldn't try to help Whether involved his family his friends his church his community his country or even an unknown child through the Boys and Girls Club Workbound or as a mentor Mike was involved his love of Sheboygan and Sheboygan County glowed like a beacon His continued perseverance to make Muth company grow and thrive and stay strong through some of the most Perilous times was unbelievable. I remember being with Mike at Cape Kennedy When he bought a hundred wristbands that said the famous lines from the Apollo 13 mission Failure is not an option His comment was I need these from my employees Failure was never an option with Michael Muth Yes, Michael was controversial, but his desire to make Sheboygan was a front-runner in Mike's missions All the way from the YMCA the police station the Chamber of Commerce visitor center police taser guns The list is endless. I can clearly recall when the SDC had been trying for years to help acquire the South Pier We just couldn't do it until Michael came forward with a solution Through his own efforts. He single-handedly founded the friends of Sheboygan. This group personally gave $500,000 through gifts and loans to the city of Sheboygan to have the money to buy the properties from Colk industry The South Pier became a reality because of Michael Muth the friends of Sheboygan and the SDC Most people would have stopped there, but not Mike He endlessly worked hand-in-hand with the city of Sheboygan and the SDC to seek the best ventures for that property After thousands of hours of time the dream of Blue Harbor and the city's only only conference center was born But he still didn't stop He personally felt so committed that he bought the first two condos in The project not to benefit Michael Muth But to show his faith in the project and get it going and with that the rest of the South Pier started this drive Thrive when we enjoy the South Pier We have Mike Muth to thank But it didn't end there then there was the Great Lakes Aerospace Science and Education Center at Spaceport Sheboygan Glassic was a dream of Michaels. He got involved and he got involved deep He became the chair of the Sheboygan Development Corporation and stated let's go and go we did We traveled to Washington, Alabama, Houston, Cape Kennedy, Madison, Green Bay, Milwaukee and more hundreds of contacts and Thousands of hours not to benefit Mike Muth but to benefit Sheboygan the state of Wisconsin and the kids He believed in it and will inspire us to make it happen Selfishness was not in his blood But making Sheboygan a better place ran through his veins As I said before Michael was one of a kind his antidotes were endless Most of us use the scene that we're running around like a chicken with its head cut off But not Michael his version was he was running around like a head with its chicken cut off the unique Mike I Could speak for hours about our friend Michael, but I would like to close with a measurable that I heard many years ago That being one way to measure success is if you can name five people Who who will truly miss you after your death other than your family? You are a success Michael doesn't have five. He has many Michael Muth was success as a father a grandfather a businessman and community leader and last a great friend Goodbye Michael. Thank you. You'll be missed but never forgotten Thank you Before we proceed it would be proper. I agree with Gary Michael Was an icon in the history of Sheboygan and will continue to be I'd ask for just a brief period of silence this honor Thank you Next we have a public hearing The deputy finance director treasure announced that there will be a hearing on the proposed budget for used during 2008 All taxpayers and residents of the governmental unit will have the opportunity to be heard on the proposed budget At this time is there anyone that would like to address the council, please Yes, sir, and would you give your name, please Ed Wachowski and your address two six three two Eighth Street in Sheboygan Okay, go ahead. I'm here obviously to talk about the budget You might say to yourself people aren't concerned about taxes. Otherwise, they will have this room filled to speak on the budget this evening So that's a positive. I want to assure you that that's not a positive That's a negative because the people that I've spoken to said why bother go to talk to comic-cancel They already have their mind made up of how they're going to vote and it's just a waste of our time To go there and address the council that won't listen They do feel though at a compliment to you that you feel that they are much more intelligent Regarding the budget than what you are and why do I say that? It's very simple Took almost 300 pages of printed material for you to understand the city spending Yet on the web of the city You feel that the citizens of the community can understand a budget by two pages I think that's an insult to the individuals and the taxpayers of this community When many of you were elected to office you stated that we have spending problems Not revenue problems and the taxes are too high. I heard a story about a woman and a senior citizen Who said taxes are too high and I may lose my home well, I've taxed it too high two years ago taxes were hot too high last year and You have done absolutely nothing To reduce the tax burden How can you say the taxes are not too high right now? under two sheets that are on on the web you have shown One sheet to show some expenditures Not regarding the tax on property and you've compared year to year and income year to year Yet on page number two when you're talking about the property tax you do not compare last year to this year My personal opinion and I could go on and on but I only have five minutes I think it would take it takes a lot of courage on your part to vote for this Budget a lot of courage and why do I say that? because in the next two years you're going to be up for election and I think it's going to be quite evident That you've voted on the budget that kept taxes at the level that you said were too high and I Can't wait to hear your explanation of why taxes aren't too high during the election cycle I'm appalled by this budget I'm appalled that you should ask for public comment When you don't have a budget on the web that can be looked at and critiqued by the taxpayers of this city It's like asking me to buy a home in Arizona from a real estate agent That shows me a picture without telling me how much ground is involved what the taxes are what the heating bill is Just saying trust me. It's for your best interest and that's exactly what you're doing with this The newspaper has said you have a three hundred thousand dollar hole in the budget It's not what you say. It's obviously how you say it It means that you have three hundred thousand dollars that you can't increase spending by This year because you do want to increase spending and God bless each and every one of you because you're going to be paying the taxes The same as all the rest of us are and you've not done your job Thank you very much. I think I made under five minutes Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to address the council? Please sir. Mr. Capitolo. I already have your address 16 19 or 38 corrects Okay, go ahead You know, I have come to the council meetings on a number of occasions and they've discussed The high cost of our property taxes and the fact that Ourselves as a nonprofit has paid property taxes since we purchased our building. I Just do not see why the council would not look at other Avenues to generate money other than the traditional avenues that you're looking at for example I would say that there's quite a number of other nonprofits that are within the city I mean if we can afford to pay Over I think over close to $50,000 in property taxes since we've had our building I'm pretty sure that other nonprofits in this community could also put something towards the the public and safety of The city should boy again for example, I'll give you an example. We had there was an incident at the The rehabilitation center where there was a client there was there and in fact, I think there was a controversy because he got tasered and The fact is that the police had to respond They had to go there there probably had probably two or three officers that were there that had to respond to the incident Who paid for that? I mean the officers didn't come off the clock and say well We're going to a nonprofit that doesn't pay taxes So we're just going to not get paid for this this amount of money here No, they were paid just like if they would Been going to any other call and I think that Because other other nonprofits do receive the services that are provided within the city should boy again that I don't think It's asking too much for you to impose some kind of public protection safety fee and it doesn't have to be a lot It could be just something that would be Just as a token, but at least it's something that will add up and the other thing I would like to say is when you're looking at the budget look at areas that are critical to the safety of the city For example, I know that you had voted and you had approved the the budget for the police department But after talking to some some of the officers They basically told me that you know, they're really not at full capacity of staffing at this point Sure, they did get additional officers that were the patrol officers But they are still not at the levels that they should be for overall staffing and I think that if you look at What the priorities should be for the city? Should you look at providing more when you're looking at how much crime we have in the city? If you if you talk to any person in the city They'll say should boy it is not the city that it was 20 years ago because you have so much crime you have drugs It's not going to get any better Take a page out of the history of Milwaukee where they did the same thing they cut the police budget Now you're talking you talk to police officers there and they're saying now they want to get more officers on the street They want to get more more people on there because they know they made a mistake They cut the budget so much that now it's the drugs and and crime is rampant And I think that if you're looking at the budget look at the areas that definitely that you definitely need to fund And yes, you know we pay taxes, but you know what? I would rather pay more taxes knowing that that money is being spent wisely than being wasted and Sometimes when you look at some of the things that you do with developments and some of the the breaks that you give the developers Some that are multi-million dollar corporations and you give them millions of dollars You know does that make sense when other people in the community that are struggling to pay their taxes? Is this something that you? You know is fair. I don't think so I think you have to look at also in the development to make sure that that developers do pay their fair share of property taxes that they also Have an interest in the city. I don't think that That shabuigan should be looked at as a community that you can come here And you can be lured by money and incentives But it should be a community that you want to come to to live here because of the the community that it is And I think that if you if you look at the nontraditional areas that where you wouldn't have looked before and start looking at those areas and look at trying to generate more Income in those avenues versus the property tax of the property tax owner Those are the people that pay every year and every year you have to look at other avenues to generate money and again I say as a nonprofit, you know if you came to me and said You know Henry you don't have to pay any more taxes We're gonna take you out. I would say no I don't think so because we as an organization have a commitment to the city We asked for the police department to come to our building We asked the fire department to come to our building when there's a problem I don't think we should end up having to have the other taxpayers to pay for our burden of what we have So I would say seriously look at this and look at the areas of public safety and protection as being your number one priority Thank you very much. Thank you Is there anyone else that would like to address the council is there anyone else that would like to address the council President Hannah, thank you, mr. Mayor. I would move to close the hearing motion the second to close hearing under discussion There is none all in favor say aye any opposed Motion carries hearing is closed Consent agenda president Hannah. Thank you, mr. Mayor I would move that all are always be accepted and placed on file and all our C's be accepted and adopted Motion and second sixteen dash one through sixteen dash twenty under discussion Meyer Question Thank you, Your Honor. I wanted to comment before we got into the consent agenda And at this point I would like to apologize to all the person Ryan We had a private conversation and in that private conversation. I offended him. It won't happen again. Thank you Thank you all in my ear 16 1 through 16 20 consent agenda motion in second under discussion There being none, please call a roll Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rinflaich Ryan Smith Vanderweel for Hasselt Wangaman and Boren 15 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 1621 to be referred report of officers to 1622 and 23 I will hold for 1643 please make that notation 1624 I will hold for 1635 1625 Lies over 1626 and 1627 lies over to November 26 1628 through 1633 to be referred Resolutions introduced 3 1634 same issue. I will hold for 1643 1635 by Alderman Meyer authorizing intern into a contract for the detention ponds riprap project at the green wing Detention pond at the great gateway drive detention pond all Alderman Meyer Thank You, Your Honor. I would also like to pull 1647 with this also 16 what 47 Okay, and I would like to ask for a motion to suspend the rules They're second second Is there any objection? I'm sorry. I didn't hear who says second it. Thank you. Is there any objection to suspending the rules? They're being on please proceed There's an objection there's an objection Alderman Rinflaich Well excuse me Objection just looking for explanation of why thank you. Okay. Thank you. All right, please continue. Thank you At this point I would actually like to open the floor to bill bulky our engineer He has the explanations for this these involve tiff districts and some construction that needs to be done with these ponds and these Come this reconstruction that they need to do has to be done before You know some of these tiff districts are Okay, finished and so I would actually like to have mr. Bulk Mr. Bill bulky is not a department head. I need a motion to open the floor Second any discussion on that all in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries mr. Bulk you would you please come forward with a podium the question is to explain the suspension aspect of it There's been some interest in developing the lots in tid 8 which is near the Walmart complex where Detention ponds are but we cannot develop that due to the current zoning The zoning is a SI suburban industrial base that upon tiff law pertains the amount of industrial commercial allowed in that Industrial district zoning cannot be changed until the tax incremental finance district is closed and All expenditures all expenditures in the TID need to be made before this district is closed At time is of the essence for this project. We need to try to close it out by the end of the year And we're asking for suspension for that reason Okay, any further questions. Thank you, mr. Mulkey all one Meyer. We would need a What is all my authentic contract? motion to That is not what we need a motion to accept and file the RL Accept and adopt the RC and pass the resolution. Okay. Well, we got three things here We got except in file 1635 except in file 1624 and then pass the rest put the resolution upon Rules have been suspended, okay, so moved second Second under discussion There being none, please call the roll Hanna Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemay or Rindflesh Ryan Smith Vanderweel for hassled Wangaman Boran and Gisha 15 eyes motion carries 1636 by Alderman Hannah Meyer and went to my art establishing a wellness committee to review plan and oversee the city wellness program President Hannah Thank you Mr.. Mayor I have a question. Do I need to suspend the rules? No, just put the resolution. I'll put the resolution upon his passage Motion in the second under discussion vice president born Thank You your honor I Would like to make a friendly Amendment to this resolution under the be it further resolved starting with the Well, I'll read it be it further resolved that the committee shall have as its purpose the development of Recommendations on a wellness program to be submitted no later than January 31st 2008 to the Common Council for approval Plan the wellness program offered to city employees and oversee its progress providing reports and after the word reports I would like to add to include employee utilization of the wellness program by department and Then reading on on a quarterly basis to the group health insurance committee and the city finance committee There's motion as a motion to amend in a second under discussion on the amendment only President Hannah, thank you, Mr.. I couldn't agree more with all of them one This is such an important component to making our move forward in controlling insurance costs that anything we can do To monitor and encourage participation This time and energy well spent thank you president Hannah on the amendment any further discussion There being on all in favor say aye, aye any opposed motion carries Now we need a motion to put the resolution upon his passage as amended president. Thank you, Mr.. Mayor I put the Resolution upon his passage as amended second motion in second under discussion all women's life Thank you, Mr.. Chairman. Mr.. Mayor excuse me I'm a little concerned here a little question. We're asking them to discuss and develop a Wellness committee to create a program to report to us on a quarterly basis yet. It expires in the end of April of 08 the committee So are we setting a short-term committee that just discover a plan or are we establishing committee to oversee a long-term plan? If we are simply establishing wellness committee as a short-term committee one that that will disappear after a short period of Time that and then the program itself reports back to us I am for that however if we're accepting committee that is an existence for a long period of time that oversees the committee I think we have other units of government that currently do can it and will overlook that so something for clarification on that Please Thank you The purpose of the wellness committee really is to establish protocol Early on in the stage of this process The actual Ongoing process of wellness and participation is pretty well documented In the industry standards, so this is really to kick-start to make sure all the departments are represented in the early end of the process Any further discussion? There'll be an on please call the roll Kittleson Clowness Manny Myer Montemay or Rin Flesch Ryan Smith Vander wheel for Hasselt Wongamon Boran Gisha Hannah and Heidemann 15 eyes Motion carries 1637 by Alderman Meyer Hannah and born authorizing the risk manager to negotiate settlement of liability insurance claims not to exceed $15,000 without prior approval from the risk management committee or the common council Alderman Meyer. Thank you, Your Honor. I would like to make a motion to suspend the rules Motion and second to suspend any objection to suspension Please explain suspension. Thank you We are in a situation right now where our human resources director has left and we have an interim Director and what we are doing is just changing the wording of an already existing policy so that the interim director can Continue her duties as as she's supposed to but I would also like to make an amendment To this resolution Okay, I would like to change all the uppercase R and M Okay motion to put upon its passage Motion in second now you can make a motion to amend sorry Now I would like to make a motion to amend the resolution by changing all the capital R and M's Which are primarily just risk manager to lower case letters R and M and That was through the attorney he advised that we changed the way this is worded Okay, so there's a Emotion was there a second to that amendment? Second under discussion on the amendment Attorney McLean. Thank you, Your Honor. The suggestion was in checking around Susan Hart is not a Quote risk manager. That's not her title No one in the city has that title and when it's capitalized the presumption is that that's somebody's title Put it in lower case is to say whoever is the risk manager sort of generically whoever is Managing the insurance claims would have this authority Okay Any further discussion on the amendment change uppercase to lowercase? There is not all in favor say aye. Any opposed motion carries in a motion to put it With the resolution upon its passage as amended second motion and second under discussion There be a non, please call the roll Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith Vanderwheel for Hassel Mwangamon Boran Gisha Hannah Heidemann and Kittleson 15 eyes motion carries 1638 through 1642 lies over 1643 to be referred Roman reflection Thank You mr. Mayor just before we refer this just a few comments on this if I may regarding this Obviously, I think we've all received phone calls and emails and comments from our constituents Fairly discussed it. I think with the behavior on the attack and One of the things I put into my campaign literature is that it's time for the politics personal attack to cease people want us to function as a Governing body when that represents them and they right now they don't see that our behavior within this council represents them at all My second concern a little bit is as we're sending it to ethics committee all the documents that are the three documents Again is something I brought up my first term on council this ethics committee really inappropriate Committee for this ethics and my definition was does someone have personal or monetary gain? Ethically are we using the office to benefit ourselves? And I think in the event that occurred Which we just heard an apology for and it sounds to me as in the middle that it did happen That I don't think there's a personal gain necessarily with that is there political gain perhaps But that's not in part of ethics that's everything we do can or cannot have some political gain or benefit to what we do here in council So I'm a little concerned that even if we send it to there. What are we really going to investigate? Did the event happen? Yeah We just heard that it happened Does she apologize? Yeah, she just apologized So I you know we have a he said she said issue But I think we've already achieved the goal of what an ethics committee would be It will look like we're doing something and that's exciting to wake and so off to our constituents that aha We have a committee. We're going to investigate this, but what are we really going to do? We're doing another committee another investigation dragging the council through the mud some more I think we've already come down to the bottom of the problem and actually it reached the solution They're looking for us to have leadership looking for us to have guts not to continue point fingers at each other and You know leadership part of that is I think we have to grow Thick skin and we have to grow some bigger ears thick skin because as you all know not everybody in your constituency voted for you There's people that do disagree with you at all the alderman In that disagree with us. They're not all going to like us all the time And we have to be able to take those comments and then big ears to listen What are the heart of the matter? What are people really saying? Why they disagree with us? Are they frustrated that they're not being heard and I think we need to grow both of those thick skin So we know it was a personal attack perhaps by the way, thank you. We just heard that the announcement However, it was also responded to personally My understanding from the presses that the press had to call the alderman Meyer to ask is what is that's what you said? They had no idea what was said until the alderman that was attacked. I'll been Ryan Called the press and continued this process So again, whatever what we'll be investigating My now 13 year old stepson when he was at Grant had an issue where a bully Pushed him down. What did he do? He pushed back and he got in trouble the second one around and the lesson there that we tried to give them is When people disagree with you or try to impose their will on you You have to be a better person you have to stand up for your rights And you have to walk away and he has to be willing to do that And if the attack that we heard in the council was not able to be walked away It wasn't libelness Well, that's an issue that so much to come seek an attorney for The counts I heard today We're many fold is Both he said and she said issues. They're both tired of it and both the comment made Should probably not have been done outside the city council. We hear that in mitten but then the response should not have been made in the press the sponsor had been made personally the sponsors been I asked for a Apology because you've really hurt my family You and you've you know, you've concerned my kids are concerned and what have you what the threat means Not bringing us all back into it again And if we refer it's gonna continue and I as far as I can tell it's already been done So I'll actually I'll make a motion. I don't expect anyone to follow and that's okay But I'm trying to social leadership here to say that we've come to the bottom this I will make a motion to file the three documents regarding the ethics committee and in addition I'll make a motion to publicly censure alderman Meyer for her comments, which he has apologized for in addition Sensor Alderman Ryan for going to the press instead of handling this either in-house or personally and continuing the Argument here publicly once again So I'll make those five motions. I thank you be a leader. Here's your chance to say we're done with this We're tired of the personal attacks We don't want to hear anymore and we do want to progress on With the government the operation of the city and leave all this behind us and that is our opportunity right here. Thank you The motion is to file and censure Alderman Meyer and all of them Ryan under discussion all of them Ryan Thank you your bear and thank you Alderman Rindfleisch, but I could disagree with you could not disagree with you more What we have here is not an issue of thick skin thick skin is what it took for me To go to the Sheboygan press and say this is what happened. This is called intimidation. This is called blackmail to put it lightly When all her person Meyer Said do you have a minute and called me out and right outside of these doors? Said to me the mayor and I are very disappointed with you We're very disappointed in you And I said I could give a flying with a expletive after it whether you're disappointed in me or not. I Said I don't need to impress you. She said you're not impressive I've documented all this. I documented immediately after it happened So I would not make up Maybe some extra little niceties in my little mind All the person Meyer I Would like to hear why she did this. Why would she couple with? I'm disappointed in you. Why would she add to that? You better be careful because there's rumors out there about you Oh, what kind of rumors? Rumors about your drinking were you drunk when you talked to the Sheboygan press the other day? Rumors that your wife kicked you out of the house and you had to spend a week at a local hotel How would you feel if this happened to you? Rumors that your family never wanted you to run for aldermen Old Vicki what other rumors? Rumors that you might run for mayor I said Which has not been published and I'm sure all the person Meyer will acknowledge this she seems to acknowledge everything else. I Said She also said to me the mayor has had has had to pull your foot out of your mouth on many an occasion I said Vicki people that follow people blindly and Upgoing them down in flames with them she can refute this if she'd like She said I'm not impressed with you The mayor is not impressed with you and you better watch yourself Why would a person drag me out of these council chambers and say this to me? What's the purpose of it? There's only one purpose Because it started with I am disappointed in you Because it started with I Am disappointed in you and it ended with you better watch what you say because there's rumors out there about you What was I supposed to do? I had two choices. I could either do as other people have done in the past That maybe is not factual, but I think if there's an investigation that will become factual I Could go and crawl into a corner and be quiet and maybe not make anybody disappointed with me in the future I went home immediately following this meeting Had it straight out the door My wife and kids didn't realize it would be a 20-minute council meeting which I didn't either and they were out And I sat down and documented this for the purpose of having it and the more I documented it The more I said she's not getting away with this Because this was pure intimidation pure 100% Intimidation That is exactly what it was you better watch what you say because there's rumors out there about you They're not rumors. They're facts. I admitted it. Okay. My life is in the public eye My wife and I had a disagreement. Yes Have I drank too much once or twice in the past? Yes, I have absolutely Did my family not want me to run for this public office My wife confirmed that tonight So what was her purpose? What was the purpose of it? That's the question we have to ask ourselves and if we say Well, okay, he shouldn't go into the press. It was a private conversation What was the purpose of the private conversation? The purpose of the private conversation was to tell me to shut my mouth That was the purpose of the private conversation I'm hoping when it came time to discuss the insurance issue I Planned that discussing it that evening. I wanted to have conversation on it when it came up time for discussion To tell you the truth. I was speechless What she did did it affect what happened in these council chambers you damn right it did did she intend it to do that? I hope not Because if that's part of her intentions, this is bigger than her just trying to Get at me personally She did succeed in having me not discuss the insurance issue But she didn't succeed in having me vote no And that says something about the integrity of some other people on this council like Alderman Hannah and Alderman Gisha That worked their butt off on this resolution. I Wanted to have it up for discussion To see if we shot down this version if we could possibly bring in the other version with another special meeting I wasn't able to say that Because I wasn't able to speak all the person lawyer your apology to me Is not accepted number one Because you don't mean it Spend 10 days. I haven't heard a peep out of you Spend 10 days You don't need to apologize to me. You need to apologize to my family You need to apologize to your constituents is who you need to apologize to As for me this needs to go to the ethics committee. This needs to be investigated fully. I Would love to see all the person born as the chair of that committee because he is a man of honor in his impartial And I would love to see this referred to so that we don't wrap our police department up in another investigation Where they'll be slandered with oh, they're they're not doing it, right? They're taking you know right inside or they're doing this or they're doing that I would like to see this referred to the Wisconsin Department of Justice. They have created in 2003 a unit called the public integrity unit that falls directly under Attorney General Van Hollen if they would have the time for this to come in and find out what really happened and See the big picture, and this is not a conspiracy on my part. I Never wanted this to happen But when somebody comes at me with my personal life And it changes the outcome of what can happen in these council chambers That is not right that is unethical that is immoral and it may be illegal And it needs to be investigated and to tell you the truth if it is investigated And all the person Meyer is found to be indeed out of line I will not be satisfied myself with a censure because somebody who would do this to slap them on the wrist Why would they care if they've just threatened you if they tried to try to maybe change the outcome of a public decision Why would they care if they somebody says bad bad and slaps him on the wrist? I would be satisfied with nothing else than to see all the person Meyer removed from office But it needs to be investigated for the sake of the integrity of this council. I am incensed I Told myself I wouldn't get upset this evening But the more I think about it The more I say that justice needs to be served Thank you any further discussion Only issue Thank You, Mayor Perez Figure I better say something saying my name is on this resolution as unusual it is for me to be kind of in middle ground on anything I guess Maybe that's where I am at this moment. I did sponsor this resolution and I don't need to go into why or My feelings regarding it as that's been fairly documented in the media and is documented on 1643 I Would like to say that I had no input from any alderman any city official any anyone in putting this together No one called to urge me. No one called to help me. No one called to egg me on It's all me The other part is I also then never reached out to any older person. I Never reached out to say. Hey, how do you feel about this? How are you gonna vote on this? How are you gonna do that? I've had several conversations with many people in this room and To their integrity never brought it up Because I wanted this body to move forward with this and handle it in a professional way You can't help but have emotions get into it. I understand that I I do disagree with my colleague alderman Ryan flesh to also censure mr. Ryan Alderperson Ryan. I think that's that totally is is is off the mark Frankly if someone made an attack on my family publicly or privately My response would have been far more vicious than putting a likely than putting a pen to paper Alderman Ryan had every right to go to the Sheboygan Press and do what he did It's his right as an alderman as a citizen and as a recipient of those actions Paragraph for Whereas these unrefuted and potentially unethical and improper action cast a cloud over the integrity of the entire council and Damaged public trust in our deliberations as a body and our integrity in the community. That's what it was all about with me It's our integrity in the community because that's all we got in this room. That's it And as far as referring it to the ethics board. I think in reading of the ethics board language This more there's language in there that more than adequately covers Actions other than just monetary or personal gain It talks a lot about any breach of public integrity particularly section 2-267 I feel is very clear and gives latitude to the ethics board I don't believe it should be discussed here right or whether it's right or wrong the correct place is the ethics board that's what it's for I asked that this be moved forward and That we handle it in the proper venue and that being the ethics board. Thank you Thank You your honor. I think Alderman Rindfleisch remembers very clearly the workshop regarding ethics that we were part of about five years ago and how it came about that we had this workshop because of this kind of promotion and the workshop With lots of questions made it very clear Repeatedly it must involve monetary gain. I Have here the code of ethics thing pages pages out of our code book. I don't think you don't want to Carry this big code book around but I've been here long enough that I was in on one of the big books the declaration of policy ethics board and I do see What the attorney who is instructing us regarding the ethics board meant in the declaration of policy section 2 263 the purpose of this article is to establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct for all such officials and Employees by setting forth those acts or actions that are incompatible with the best interests of the city and by directing disclosure by such officials and employees of private financial or other interest in matters affecting the city It goes on to say that it does not have anything to do With disagreements it talks about the ethics board It talks about the responsibility of public officials and employees Now we get to the violations the responsibility of public officials and employees was the first one Should not exceed their authority or breach the law or ask others to do so Use of public property Shall no city official or employee shall request or permit the unauthorized use of city-owned vehicles equipment materials or property for personal convenience or profit Obligations to citizens no city official or employees shall grant any special Consideration treatment or advantage to other citizens beyond that which is available to every other citizen Conflict of interest no city official or employee whether paid or unpaid shall engage in any business or transactions Or shall act in regard to financial or other personal interest Director indirect which is incompatible with the proper discharge of his official duties in the public interest Contrary to this article which would tend to impair his independence of judgment incompatible private employment Disclosure of confidential information that was made very clear numerous times when we have a closed session You turn in your minutes or your notes. You don't even keep those with you No city official or employees shall without proper legal authorization disclose confidential information gifts and favors receipt of a gift receipt of Momentos it even gives a monetary value of what we can take Representing private interest before city agencies no city officer or employee shall appear on behalf of any private person Other than himself his spouse or money children before any city agency Contracts with cities disclosure of interest in legislation. I think that's probably the one that got mayor Schneider into trouble and come campaign contributions We questioned the teacher the attorney who was giving us the workshop Repeatedly about this sort of thing and he said it must involve a monetary gain Thank you Thank you again mayor I Didn't realize that this was a workshop tonight on the code of ethics But I think that attorney McLean would probably be a bit more schooled on this than somebody who went to a workshop five years ago What I have to say here is okay Everybody on this council. It's a free from up free for all from here on out Your private lives are on the table because anybody can use them against you is basically what we're saying here If our code of ethics only states that we have to have a monetary gain in order to be unethical We have to have monetary gain or a monetary conflict of interest or something of the sort I Would believe that somewhere in the code of ethics there has to be something about being ethical I would sure as heck hope so because I don't think this is a I Don't think that this should be a lesson on the code of ethics tonight. I think this should be the question of whether something potentially unethical was committed and Whether we should look into that or whether we should crawl under rocks so when this happens to the next guy and somebody says I Heard this about you that that person doesn't go to the media They don't want to put their family through this so what they do is they crawl under a rock and go away and they become ineffective Because if I did not come forward with this at this point It would be a little cloud over my head and the next time I decided to open my mouth Maybe that cloud would grow bigger because if it worked for somebody to say we found out this this and this about you oh Boy, I bet you they could just keep on digging and maybe find some stuff from 15 years ago Does anybody else in this council ever been married? Anybody ever been married twice you might have had some marital problems somewhere in your life This council owes it to the public to do something Because if we tell the public that the code of ethics states that We can't make money off of being councilmen and as long as we don't do that we can do whatever the heck we want to Something's wrong with this. I Would like to turn you McLean's opinion on this. Thank you. Oh I'm sorry your honor The workshop wasn't just something we happen to be in on it was specifically for the alderman It was done by former mayor Schram He purposely had attorney beasing from the county come and do the workshop for us It wasn't just any old person. Thank you Thank you, honor. I too would like attorney McLean's opinion on this I just I'm gonna be careful with what I say right now I just want to say wow because this is amazing in six years. I haven't seen anything like this But I just want to say that the reason why I seconded on the mindflash motion is because people I talked to people who don't really necessarily care about politics They just basically said tell them to stop fighting natural kids and I think that's what I'm gonna run flesh as motion did and that's why I seconded Thank you Thank you, your honor I Came here tonight Intending probably to move to file. I spoke to no alder person prior to this evening on purpose My basic sense was oftentimes things are misinterpreted when spoken in certain situations and There's a lot of misunderstanding that can follow and that kind of thing should never end up in the public sphere as it has I Would like to point out under section to 267 of Our articles here regarding ethics There are open-ended general statements that would be applicable to tonight's conversation And at the end of paragraph a it simply says Conduct in both official and private affairs should be above reproach So as to foster respect for all government That clause speaks to tonight's issues The problem with this clause is that it's a very vague and if the council would by intention Pursue aggressively and proactively all sorts of gray areas We would be inappropriately Bringing personal issues to the public attention and taking energy away from the public business that is our primary calling However by virtue of the intensity of what's been present Presented tonight. I do believe that we need to take this to the ethics board in that venue. We can further explore this But I think we need to note this clause here and its clarity in general terms That gives us clear authorization But that at the same time provides an open door that can be quite problematic if we aren't careful with what we're about. Thank you Thank you, Mr. Mayor And that open doors actually we want to comment on that gray area by no means is my intention to file It means to simply slap on the wrist and to shove this under the carpet again state again that that Have always been against the politics of personal attack and there's far too much of that But that open door is is that open door is is if we start investigating Comments and behavior No one here is gonna be a both approach in some degree. I am one of those that Alderman Ryan has spoke about I have an ex-wife. I'm currently remarried. I have two wives. Everybody knows that not a big deal But if we investigate in our own body our own personal self I think that's the open door that we're creating if we dislike a vote to move forward through that So I it's not that I want to close that door but That's not for us to investigate that is for the press to investigate that is for our public to care about and vote How we do it is not necessarily for us to do it amongst ourselves The reason I say that is because it is a free-for-all to use Alderman Ryan's word It's been a free-for-all when you signed up and put your name on the ballots Records are public people care passionately about issues people ran against us people, you know use rumor in Uendo to get positions Is that way you know and if if it's it's a shame that has to be at this local level the small level all we want to do is try to do what's best for the city, but it still is that way and We've taken some really hot-button votes this year And I'm not up for reelection this year But the next year you those hot-button issues are going to come back and someone who really feels strongly against me will probably use whatever they can To vote me out because they felt strongly against an issue how I voted for well that's part of the job that we took when we came here and By opening that door and investigating these issues amongst ourselves Unless it's to me, it's obvious that it is not obvious that we're investigating a personal or financial gain I think then what we're trying to modify behavior and that's that's our our constituents job to to decide Second point though is is not a slap on the wrist and someone tell me the last time somebody was censured in this body It has been a long time And by this body taking that action and doing a century it is saying hey you stepped over the line We do have guidelines amongst ourselves not going to investigate within those guidelines But we have them when you cross that line there will be a slap on their wrist Publicly and now your constituents have to make that decision if we're going to elect or reelect based on that history that way So I disagree with Alvin Ryan saying that it's not a big issue I think it's a huge issue by being being censured publicly in this body It is an emotional issue too, but the comment that I heard today is she's not getting away with this Sounded a lot like a threat and intimidation to me and that concerns me The whole reason why I do this is so and to use Alderman Vanderweel's words is so we can stop acting like children and move forward It is an emotional issue people have been attacked. There is no denying that But what are we going to investigate? We're going to find out that he was attacked. We're going to find that out And guess what we already know that She already apologized for that and perhaps there's more apologies coming. I can't speak on her behalf So I asked that we can to lower the passion Lower the emotional level and do what our constituents want us to do and that is to take action censor Move forward, especially a time like this with our budget issues are looming so large. So urge you to do that, please. I Agree with Alderman Ryan flesh we do when you run for reelection you take daggers from everywhere And that happens. I also have an ex-wife a very nice one and they You do take that kind of criticism during an election from all sorts of different people from all sorts of different places I just wouldn't expect it to come from somebody in this body who's who's supposed to uphold the public trust and Foster good relations with our citizen and their trust in government. That's the difference to me I have nothing to gain by introducing this I have more to lose than to gain I just thought it was the right thing to do and I still believe after all this discussion That the ethics board is the place to do it. That's why I suggested the ethics board. It's the proper venue We had great discussion here But I think this great discussion should be in the ethics board where it belongs the end result could be the same the end Result as Alderman Ryan flesh suggest or it could be nothing at very least at very least having both Alderman Meyer and Alderman Ryan as was previously suggested to both be censured I think is an injustice And I have no personal alliance with Alderman Ryan. I've enjoyed working with Alder person Meyer I regret that this is going on I'd love to put this behind us and to me the only place to do that is the ethics board That's in my opinion what it's for and I think we'd all like to hear what attorney if the attorney McLean feels that it is appropriate to you as thank you Oh This is a tough issue for me as well I mean I can certainly have Empathize with Alderman Ryan and his and his wife Mary I mean having a young family young children and being involved in politics. I can relate 100% I Simply cannot imagine being put into this sort of situation on his part. I do not think he should be censured in this situation Although I think I should note that it is ironic that the comment that probably started all this Would also fly in the face of the ethics code, which as Alderman Manny pointed out You know we as Alderman should be fostering respect for all government things that we say the actions that we take should be fostering respect for one another so But again, I don't want to go there I don't want to dig anything else up I would like to move on Again, I'll lean back to attorney McLean at my portal where this document the ethics code all afternoon Trying to read into it as much as I can Trying to take into as many perspectives as I can from different people I am curious as to the part of this that you would hang your head on I think it would be 2-267 as Alderman Manny pointed out I think that's where it's probably at but I'm curious to get your Legal opinion from a personal standpoint Having witnessed Sheboygan politics for the last five years where I've really paid attention to Sheboygan politics more than just the headlines I would really hate to see this council get mired back into a Quagmire he said she said and that's that's one thing that stands out with me about this again And I empathize with Alderman Ryan and his wife. I'm certainly not condoning what took place But this is a one-on-one conversation So I don't know that we're gonna gain a whole lot Information-wise I think we heard Alderman Ryan story, and I don't doubt it. We've heard Alderman Meyer story I Don't know that we'll gain a whole lot seeing that it was one-on-one Nobody was within earshot to confirm or deny What was said so I worry that the only thing that can be gained by taking this any further Would be more hard feelings and more headlines in the newspaper, and I don't know that that's gonna serve the value for the city of Sheboygan You have one more Alderman and we'll let attorney McLean speak Alderman Highland. Thank you mayor I'm not a child And I was elected by my constituents, and I'm gonna support this resolution because I hold myself to the highest standards Representing my constituents, and I believe that's what they want me to do and I'm in support of this going to the ethics committee Alderman Highland Turner McLean Thank You Your Honor It is an unfortunate situation cities Code of Ethics was adopted pursuant to Section authority under section 19.59 of the Wisconsin statutes Titled Codes of Ethics for local government officials employees and candidates that authorizes local governments to adopt codes of ethics and I should point out that the state Code of Ethics for local government officials employees and candidates has Two primary prohibitions Number one no local public official may use his or her public position or office to gain Obtained financial gain or anything of substantial value for the private benefit of himself or herself or his or her immediate family and Second is no person may offer or give to a local public official directly or indirectly and no local public official may solicit or accept From any person directly or indirectly anything of value if it could reasonably be expected to influence the local public officials vote Etc. And The city's ethics code is It's very similar In many respects to the language in the state ethics code The the city's however has a couple of provisions the declaration of policy is Set out a little more fully in our code and Section 2-267 the responsibility public officials and employees is a little different than in the state code 2-263 declaration of policy is Basically stating the policy of the code. It's not setting forth what the Is required and mandated or what's not but I believe ultimate Montmire read this previously and I read it again the purpose of these this article being the code of ethics Is to establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct for all such officials and Employees by setting forth those acts or actions that are incompatible with the best interests of the city and By directing disclosure by such officials and employees of private financial or other interests and matters affecting the city so Declaration of policy is to set forth specific acts or actions that are incompatible with the best interests of the city 2-267 been referred to entitled responsibility of public officials and employees and speaks of fostering respect of all government and Language that's been cited previously their conduct in both their official and private affairs should be above reproach So as to foster respect for all government that's In my view the aspirational goal of why these this code is in place Similar to the code of professional responsibility for attorneys there are mandates and then there are sort of aspirational goals the aspirational goal and the theory Other than what's in black and white as do's and don't do's is that this will be Foster respect for all government and will be in the public interest In practice the the code of ethics sets forth Rules of conduct that are do's and don'ts and generally there are two kinds of restrictions. I Would notice again that that Aspirational language says should be above reproach doesn't say shall be above reproach And certainly should be but it's an Aspirational goal and not a mandate the mandates in the code similar to the mandates in the state code of ethics Again two kinds of restrictions first restricts an official or an employee From personally profiting from holding public office or employment Apart from the receipt of their salary Second restricts an official from participating in decisions in which the official has a personal financial interest And Then we go into specifics and believe Alderman Montmire pointed out these other sections use of public property No city official or employee shall request or permit Obligations to citizens no city official or employee shall grant Conflict of interest no city official or employee whether paid or unpaid shall engage in any business or transaction or shall act in regard to financial or other personal interest Director indirect which is incompatible with the proper discharge of official duties in the public interest Contrary to this article or which would tend to impair his independence of judgment or action in the performance of his official duties Incompatible private employment disclosure of confidential information gifts and favors Representing private interests before city agencies contracts with city disclosure of interest in legislation and campaign contributions those are all shall type mandates that are Specifically governed by the code that our do's and don'ts as opposed to sort of aspirational guidelines If you go to the the state ethics board's Website they've got listing of advisory opinions on The state's code of ethics and how you apply it As it relates to local government officials and you look at that Every opinion deals with the shalls and the shall nots. They deal with accepting gifts The state-level lobbying activities Conflicts of interest gifts and favors Is a Big one use of public property Those are the do's and don'ts of the ethics code and I certainly understand that you know the comment that if If it doesn't cover, you know unethical conduct, how can you say we have an ethics code, but The do's and don'ts are shells in in the code The remainder Wow, I think are certainly important to give the flavor as to what the What the ordinance is getting at they're more aspirational and Reflect perhaps the spirit as opposed to the letter of the law You know as it stands right now the the motion is to refer the document to the ethics committee That's a decision council needs to make That referral is not taking action one way or another on the resolution requesting an investigation so if The council wishes to further discuss this and the appropriateness of it under the ethics code and wants to do that in the framework of the ethics board That's certainly up to the council But I do believe again that And there are there are other outside of the city's ethics code there are other Issues that that come into play or avenues perhaps there's you know perhaps tort liability civil liability Perhaps criminal liability those things could be looked at Reference to the Public integrity unit the Attorney General's office. That's one opportunity as well, but In order to be a pure violation of the city's ethics code I think it needs to fit within those parameters that are shals under the code So I guess that's that's my opinion I think it was a chairman If it's okay with this the moment vendor really who seconded my motion like the change my motion Pardon me if it's okay with Second the motion like to change my motion Change instead to file and it's the four documents not three as a previous stated and to censure Alderman Vicki Meyer at this point in time alone They do a motion Motion is to file the four documents Those documents there's the four documents that three we held over plus 1643 for this one file those four and censure as a as a common counsel in vicki mire There's a second that so it's changing my previous motion Motion dies for that Who's second There's a motion in the second to file Original motion was the second did not agree to my modifying the motion So we still have that motion standing right now. I thought you would do your motion I would do my motion, but doesn't the second half to also throw the second not necessarily if you've got a brand new motion before You would do your motion It's the second withdrawn Alderman Vendor wheel Yes, please Thank you on right. I feel it's necessary to explain I didn't want to withdraw my motion because it's right now where he said she said and Where I come from she said he said she said you're 50% liable. So for me to say just one person I Don't have the complete facts. So that's why I'm not going to withdraw my motion The motion stands Motion motion is to File and censure Both Alderman Can I have clarification before we go any further? Yes, because your three documents we have for here I realize you want to change that but what were the three that you decided to file because we have two arrows and two resolutions The ones we we held were 1622 23 and 1634 is that what you wish Okay Thank You your honor If we were to File this and then censure both Wouldn't we simply wouldn't we just have acted as the ethics board by doing that? You're not convenient as an ethics board So that it would be the council censuring the two of them. Yes. Thank you Thank you, Mayor Perez One thing if I could ask city clerk Richards to Clearly explain because it's been quite confusing. I know for me I would be very helpful as to what we're voting on and second I'd like to comment on my second to older person Rineflesh on his amended resolution Which would come up next I believe in the vote would be to he would basically removed his censure of Alderperson Ryan and left the censure of Alderperson Meyer and voted to file my resolution the reason I seconded that and Is because of the comments by attorney McLean and basically saying that if we go into an ethics board the the results would be It's such has been brought up by Alderperson Ryan would be incompatible with the specifics of our code if that's an accurate reading Or if it's not an accurate reading, please attorney McLean correct me, but What we have done here is I wish we hadn't acted as the ethics board and If a censure would be the likelihood of that based on the reading from attorney McLean We'll be accomplishing that and allowing us to move on yet stating clearly that we have drawn a line in the sand as to this type of activity so I urge you to vote no on the one we're voting on now and then vote yes on the amended resolution by or by Alderperson Ryan flesh woman Smith Thank You honor To show respect for both Alderperson Ryan and Alderperson Meyer I will speak very little on this topic because I believe the more that we elongate this discussion We're really providing a disservice. I think we're just we're speaking of two things here number one issue versus Relationship and I think it's been stated and I think collaboratively we would agree about the standards the integrity of this office and more importantly is this next issue and that is the letter of the law and Whether or not what we agree to given what you said and correct me if I'm wrong Steve McLean Basically, there's some fundamental Fundamental agreements in this document stating that the do's and it don'ts but basically what we've discussed tonight that one clause in there It almost sounds like it's for it's an ideal and it's not necessarily something that you can really sink teeth in to and For that sake I'm not going to be supporting anything to pursue it Forward, however, you did mention that there might be other means to pursue For Alderperson Ryan to pursue to make it because again issue versus Relationship and that this must be this could be a principle in which somebody would stand and say it's not appropriate Do okay Please call the rule Thank You Alderman Gisha for letting me clarify what you're voting on You have four documents that was changed from three to four with both agreeing Alderman Rindflash and Alderman Vanderweel agree to the motion to file all four documents and Sensor Alderman Meyer and Ryan so an aye vote would be to do that to file the four and censure both and I vote would do that both That's what you're voting on please call Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith Vanderweel For hassled Wongamun Boran no Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness One eye 14 nose motion cells Motion Your next motion was by yourself and Alderman Gisha to file all four documents and To censure Alderman Meyer and I vote would be to file all four and censure Alderman Meyer Well, we've got All the month in my own one more time Thank you It even though it supposedly it'll be the council that's doing the censuring we have met as the ethics board in Actuality you know you have we know you know we have and remember The ethics violations are the shells Alderman Vanderweel Thank you, honor This maybe should have been brought up earlier, but attorney McLean. Is it proper for them to vote on? Something that will affect them Pretty intensely Is it proper for this last vote was it proper for Alderman Meyer and Alderman Ryan to vote? And then in this next vote would it be proper for them in my interval? Well, I guess I guess I would have some concern about that that would have some interest in it obviously personal interest I Don't think it affected the outcome previously. I guess that would be my recommendation though to abstain to the effect that it involved in particular Alderman say being being censored as far as a Vote say by Alderman Ryan censoring Alderman person Meyer if that's what's coming up next I don't think Alderman Ryan would have to abstain from that, but I think Alderman Meyer should abstain I will change my vote to an abstention on the first Last one Alderman Meyer Thank you, your honor. I just have one comment to make my side of this story has not been heard You've heard one side But my side has never been heard and I just would like to say that. Thank you I'm sorry. Thank you, your honor I if that is the case Alderman Meyer then I would assume you would vote to send this to the ethics board where it could be Heard which was my intention to the beginning All I'm in many thank you, honor I simply want to say that one aspect of this I think needs to be addressed in the ethics board as opposed to tonight and that is what would an alternative mode of Response have been for Alderman Ryan and I think as opposed to going to the paper He could have brought a resolution into the council It would have directly dealt with that with us in the body I think that would have been appropriate. We need to explore that discuss that as a possibility for the future Ryan second time thank you as an explanation Alderman Manny the purpose of that conversation was to silence me To have me crawl into a hole and not voice my opinion So my natural reaction was to voice my opinion so I'll could hear Please repeat the motion the motion on the floor by Alderman Rindflash and second by Alderman Disha is to file all four documents and to censure Alderman Meyer and I vote would be to do that call rule Meyer Montemay or Rindflash Excuse me. Thank you Ryan Smith Vanderweel Sure, it's a motion would be to file all the documents relating to this and to censure Alderman Meyer and I vote would be to do that for hassled Wongamon Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Excuse me. Thank you. We have a tie vote seven eyes seven nose and one abstention Sorry motion was to Motion is to file all four documents two ROs and two resolutions and to censure Alderman Meyer And I vote would be to do that. No Sixteen forty three unless there's any further discussion will be referred to ethics board That's one of the documents that was filed. Oh Filed all of them were filed All four documents that were relating to this issue have just been filed it filed before Yes, they were No, oh, I'm sorry the motion failed. Excuse me. I apologize. You're right. It's referred. Sorry Thank you, your honor. I make a motion to file these documents Is there a second? Is there a second? Motion and second I didn't hear who seconded that motion And which document are we filing all four that we've been talking about? Okay? Thank you There's a motion and a second to file 1643 22 23 and 34 under discussion Alderman Ryan. Thank you mayor As we start again here, so now we're at an opportunity to file all the documents and have All her person may or get not even a censure Which she seconded the motion to file all the documents now, I don't know if that's protocol or So now basically we can now vote to file all the documents and We don't even get the proverbial slap on the rest It's a travesty if it happens. Thank you. Thank you all when Ryan further this question discussion There will be a non. Please call roll. This is to file all four Montemay or Renfleiche Ryan Smith Vanderweel for hassled Wongamon Boran Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clayunas Manny Meyer Four eyes ten nose and one abstention Motion fails 1643 and all three corresponding documents will be further the ethics board Reported committee six sixteen forty four by law and licensing recommended denying beverage operators licensed seventy six sixty seven based on the Applicants failure to cooperate with the committee vice president borne Thank You your honor. I Make a I would like to send make a motion to send us back to committee Motion the second refer back to law and licensing under discussion. Thank you your honor again Miss Caesar was here earlier tonight and she had contact a couple of days ago with the deputy city attorney Adams Stating that there was some confusion about when our last meeting was I Want to give her the benefit of the doubt and give her the benefit of being heard in closed session at our next law and licensing meetings So that's why I want her for it back Okay, any further discussion on referring back 1644 there being on all in favor say aye Any opposed motion carries your honor if I could Attorney McLean, thank you getting back to the last series of documents one of those documents is to designate Alderman borne this chairman of the committee during the Discussions regarding Alderman Meyer You know if you if you don't act on that tonight and you're referring this to the ethics board You're gonna have a problem when it arrives at the ethics board because all the person Meyer should not be Chair or participating in those discussions Oh, Mr. President board Thank you, your honor. I would agree with attorney McLean that I that I would have to be designated as Temporary chairman because then it'll be my duty to come up with an agenda for that meeting and Probably consult with the city attorney in the in the city clerk with the logistics of doing this ethics board meeting So I think it is important that the committee Vote on me as chairperson if they so choose. Thank you Oh my guess it would you like to make a motion to put the resolution upon its passage? Thank you, Mayor Perez. I make that motion to put the resolution upon its passage naming Alderperson Jim borne as the temporary head of the ethics board Until the matter concerning the chairman as result 1634 what a fun passage under discussion Alderman Rindflash Now it's gonna make a motion on all the cleaners same thing Any discussion? Please call the rule. Okay Rindflash Ryan Smith Vanderweel for Hasselt Wongamon Boran Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittlesen Clioness Manny Meier Montemayor 15 eyes motion carries 1645 lies over to November 26 1646 to be referred 1647 has been taken care of Report of committee is eight by finance recommended authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget Establishing revenue and appropriations for repairs to the meat library elevator President Hanna. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would Make a motion to accept and adopt and place the Resolution 137 0708 upon its passage second motion in second under discussion Thank You, Mr. Mayor Doesn't sound like son the this particular Elevator It's really for the movement of supplies and books up and down. So this isn't this isn't a staff elevator This is a an elevator that's absolutely required for the function of the library Ryan Smith Vanderweel for Hasselt Wonkerman Boran Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittlesen Clioness Manny Meier Montemayor and Rindfleisch 15 eyes Establishing revenue and appropriations for bicycle racks to be added to the shabuigan transit buses with a grant from the non-authorized pilot Thank You, Mr. Mayor. I make a motion to accept the report of committee and adopt the resolution 130708 as upon his passage Smith Vanderweel for Hasselt Wonkman Boran Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittlesen Clioness Manny Meier Montemayor Rindfleisch and Ryan 15 eyes Thank You Mayor Perez. This isn't a new idea. This was done some time ago You know Many previous councils it gives to basically two budget cycles to fill a position in a to and then if those positions aren't filled It's removed from the to There was a and Alderperson Montemayor can help me there was a an amendment to this made to these documents And you can and those two amendments and changes were Specific to allowing a second kick at the cat and that was to allow a six-month extension if at the end of that 18 months and Allows for positions that aren't paid for by tax dollars to be exempt from this for instance CDV Those monies I can never pronounce it right can be used for those in the 18 months We get the money in weird sporadic ways, so the 18 months wouldn't be helpful with that, but they are not city tax dollars Thank you Thank You your honor I moved to an accept and file the RC and the substitute ordinance be put upon its passage Be a no more Fander wheel for hassled long a man born Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan and Smith 15 eyes Over 11 Resolution number 130 20708 by element van der wheel Authorize it to find the filing of an application with the US Department of Transportation And authorizing the executing of the contract pertaining to grass for calendar year 2008 Thank you, I move to put the resolution upon its passage For hassled Wongamon Warren Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemay or Rindflash Ryan Smith and van der wheel 15 eyes 1549 Resolution number 130 30708 by element Hannah born Gisha authorizing transfer of Appropriations in the 2007 budget establishing revenue and appropriations from the police department Training aids received from Wisconsin Department of Justice Contributions received for Maywood for electricity building a well-making Thank You mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second Wongamon Warren Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith van der wheel and for hassle 15 eyes RC number 20708 by the Municipal Court Advisory Committee recommended finding documents committed the Municipal Court monthly financial report As of May 31st Thank You mr. Mayor I move that the report a committee be accepted and adopted 1565 RC number 260708 by finance Recommendant authorizing borrowing from the trust funds of the state of Wisconsin the sum of 5.9 million dollars for the purpose of financing the unfounded The purpose of financing the unfunded pension liability with the Wisconsin retirement fund and passing the substitute resolution Thank You I move that the report a committee be accepted and adopted and place the substitute resolution upon his passage Born Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith van der wheel for hassled and wongamon 15 eyes 1568 general orders and 6708 by all in the man wheel Rindflash Kittlesen Ryan and Smith Repeating and recreating section 42-66 of the Municipal Code so as to provide an exception to the requirement or an ambulance license Thank You honor moved to put the general ordinance upon his passage Motion and second Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittlesen Clowness Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Ryan Smith van der wheel for hassled wongamon and born 15 eyes motion carries other matters attorney McLean Thank You honor 1655 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30 2008 and June 30 2009 That goes to law and licensing 1568 is an arrow by the building inspection department submitting the report of the building inspection department for the month of October 2007 it goes to public protection and safety 1657 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting communication from the president's of the Shporgan professional police association Shporgan police supervisors association and city hall workers local 1564 Stating regarding health concerns for employees at the site of the new police building and we'll go to public protection and safety also 1658 is an ordinance granting Richard pool as errors and assigns privilege of encroaching upon described portions of South Business Drive for the purpose of Constructing and maintaining offense that goes to city plan 1659 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a claim from Sherry Campbell for Alleged damages to her vehicle when a city worker was cutting the grass in the median with the riding lawnmower and a rock got kicked up and hit her car That will go to risk management 1660 is an arrow by the deputy finance director treasurer submitting the trial balance of the city Stating the financial condition of each fund for the period ending September 30 2007 and pursuant to subsection 6209 a statement of receipts and disbursements of the city for the month of September 2006 and 2007 It goes to finance to the motion to adjourn Motion the second all in favor say aye Stand adjourned