 For Research in Manoa, welcome to the program. I'm Linda Martel and I'm happy today to be co-hosting the next half hour with Jeff Taylor and we're both from the Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, we call that HIGP. It's in the School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology at UH Manoa. So our topic today is all about the sun and solar eclipses and we're so pleased to have with us Natalie Alzate and she's a visiting scientist at IFA but I'm going to let her pronounce the name of the university in Wales where she's affiliated. So welcome Natalie. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Thank you for having me. So your affiliation is? Alberta Swift University, it's in Wales in the UK. And are you originally from the UK? Your voice is not having an accent. No, no I was raised in the US, I'm originally from Columbia but yeah my accent is American. So you're a visiting scientist at IFA and what group and who are you working with? So I am working with Dr. Sharia Habal, she is a professor at the Institute for Astronomy and I've been working with her for two years now so what she does is she studies the sun's atmosphere or the corona but specifically she changes his total solar eclipses and studies the corona that way because that is when the corona is visible. So that's what I do with her. So we know on the mainland people are getting very excited about the August 21st total solar eclipse. Correct. But as we were talking with Jeff earlier you don't have to wait until the shadow of the moon passes you to understand about the sun and the corona. Right. So you study it all year. Yes, yes. So I got into solar physics about four years ago now when I started my PhD and for whatever the reasons I ended up going to the UK to get my PhD and so my supervisor there Dr. Hugh Morgan he was Sharia's supervisor when he was a PhD student so that's where the connection is and that's how I met Sharia. So what we do is we study the corona using mostly space based instruments. So we have for example the Lasco telescope which is a coronagraph imager and so what it does is it simulates a total solar eclipse. So because it has an occultar that basically serves as the moon in space. You have something physically that blocks it. The problem with that is that you have to make the disk wide enough so that you can actually see the corona because the surface of the sun is so bright. So because of this you're losing a certain field of view from the surface of the sun up to the edge of the occultar so that's why a total solar eclipse is so unique because you have the moon that is a perfect fit if you will. It appears to be the same size of the solar disk so you're able to see what's going on from the surface of the sun out to several solar radii. Where will you be August 21st? So the whole team, I should mention, could we put the first image up please? I should mention that the team, we are called the Solar Wind Sherpas, we are a group of international scientists and what we do is we chase eclipses and sometimes we have to go to very remote places. In this case we went to Svalbard which is in the Arctic Circle so you can imagine the conditions that we had to deal with not just staying warm but also having to deal with any effects that the cold had on the equipment. So we go to several different places. In this case it's in our backyard, it's in the US, it will be on August 21st of this year and so what the group is doing is we are splitting into five different groups. So we're going to have five observation sites from Oregon all the way to Nebraska. So we'll be in Oregon, we will be in Idaho, two sites in Wyoming and one site in Nebraska. So me specifically, I will be in Guernsey, Wyoming. Is that before I'm going to go to Guernsey, Wyoming? Guernsey, Wyoming. Yes, yes. Branching? Yes. I'll be leading a team there. I think we have another image of the amount of equipment that you lug all over the world. Okay, so this was the eclipse in Indonesia last year. So I've only been to two eclipses, the one in Svalbard and then this one in Indonesia which was last year. So here you see those cases, you see the suit cases and there's a lot more to that picture that did not make it into the picture. So what we're doing here is we were gathering all our equipment and to put on those speed boats, you see the blue top there, that's a speed boat because we were going to a remote island to observe. So we usually have maybe just over a ton of equipment. So we're talking about... You mean Sherpas? We are Sherpas for a reason. So we have the telescopes, we have the mounts, we have the tripods and we have computers that control the telescopes, things like that so it all adds up. And so a lot of the things we have to carry them and the fact that we have to carry them sometimes to remote places, that's why the name fits. So the more people we get in the group the better so we can transport all this. Are you going to take the thousand pounds to each of the sites or are you going to divide some of it and does each site have the whole set of gears? So right now we are actually in the process of packing things and weighing things. So this expedition is going to be a bit challenging even though it's not in a remote location but the fact that we have five different sites, we're adding more equipment and we have identical equipment at each site. So we'll see how much weight we come up with in the next day or so and then we'll ship it to the mainland, the bulkier stuff. We will ship. It gives a new view on astronomy. You think of it as set telescopes which are not portable except for and maybe space telescopes that are there but here is this real true exploration. It is. You take an expedition to go to these five sites and the same with Indonesia and the Arctic. Exactly. Exactly and I think that's something that people don't realize. As an astronomer you sort of book time on a telescope, you go, you do your thing, computer operated or whatnot unless of course you're an amateur or doing backyard astronomy. But yes, in this case it's custom built telescopes and we carry them. If you can put up the next image, I can show you one of the equipment. Here we have our leader Shadiah Abal in the foreground and then the guy standing. He's my supervisor in the UK. So here you see some of the custom made telescopes that we use and these have filters on them that image the specific elements in the sun's atmosphere. So yes, we have to carry all of this and they're operated with computers. So that's adding weight, tents. We set up tents to house the equipment. I would guess sometimes the weather is not perfect. It's not perfect. Like I said, I've only been to two eclipses but one was good, one was bad, weather-wise. And it happens. I mean it's the reality of the game really. It was bad enough so you didn't really get any data from it but when a solar eclipse happens, say it's raining, it still gets dark and all right. So you get some sense of it. You get some sense of it. So the southward eclipse was magnificent. It was nice and crisp, clear skies and everything, amazing data. The one in Indonesia, we were clouded out but the clouds were, they were moving and there were those few minutes where we could still sort of experience it. So from a scientific point of view, bummer. But it was still beautiful to see in the sense that you still had an idea of what was going on, what these celestial objects were doing. Did you just describe what it must feel like to be somewhere where it's daytime and then suddenly it's more like twilight or darker like that? Yeah, so knowing that it's going to get dark, you think, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I know what it's going to look like but it's really hard for anyone to explain to you what it's like. For me, the Eclipses Valbard was, it was just beautiful. The fact that it gets dark, the fact that it gets quiet because once the moon was covering the sun, everyone started cheering but just as quickly it was silent and you didn't have to look at people. You just felt how amazed they were. It's very short-lived that at the same time, it's sort of like those two minutes seem like an eternity because it's such a beautiful spectacle, yes? So we're going to talk a little bit about the science that you gather during the Eclipses. Talk about the filters or the sorts of things that you're putting on your telescope. So we sort of run two main experiments, I should say. So if you put up the next image, please, I'll show you before I get to the filters, I'll show you. So here, this is the Eclipse, 2008 Eclipse, total solar eclipse over China. So this is an image in white lights. This is essentially what we see when we look at the corona when the sun is eclipsed. So here, this white light, what we're showing, the different structures in the corona, you have these rays, these plumes, you have the streamers just moving away from the surface of the sun. So this is representing the free electrons that are moving away from the surface through magnetic field lines. So if you put up the next image, in this image, it's the same eclipse but this one was imaged using two different filters. And so each filter is observing a different element that we know exists in the corona. In this case, we have iron 11, which is the red color that you see. And then the green color is iron 14. And so each color is representative of a different temperature in the corona. So for example, the iron 11, which is the red, is about, the temperature is about a million degrees. And the green, the iron 14, is about 2 million. What do the designators, 11 and 14, refer to? So we're talking about different ions. So for example, iron 13 plus is the iron 14, which means 13 electrons have been broken off essentially through an ionization process, so as it gets heated up. So because of that process, each color, if you will, each element represents a different temperature. And so this is very interesting to us because a long standing mystery of the corona is why is it so hot as you go further away from the surface. So the hot corona was discovered, iron was discovered, but what we've done, what we've been able to discover, is that different structures in the corona have different temperatures within them. So you don't just see one temperature throughout, you sort of have a mix. And that's why you see these, if you can put the image back up, sorry. So for example, on the top right, you have, can you tell there's a prominence sticking out? So that's the red, that's the cooler material, and then it's sort of enshrouded by this green, so it's this hotter material. Wow. Yeah, so this is something that the team was able to show, or image rather, and then show. There are, it looks like it's all going to the side, but it actually goes around spherically, so that some of it's coming right back. Yeah, so it's radiating in all directions, but you know, what we see. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, did you take that, I might have missed this, but are you getting the information separately and putting that picture together, overlaid? Are you gathering? Yeah, so there is a bit of processing, so this is the telescopes that I showed. If we go back to the third image, please. So here you see the different sort of telescopes, so each telescope has a different camera that images, you know, that has the filters that image for each element, in this case iron-14 and iron-11. When you say telescope, the one Shadi is touching, is that a telescope with a camera? Yeah. Yeah. You don't need a very big telescope to do this. You don't. A particular observation. You don't, but you know, it's when you start putting these together so we can take the different images and usually we have a white light camera set up there as well. So I think we're going to continue this conversation after a short break. Don't go away. I'm DeSoto Brown, the co-host of Human Humane Architecture, which is seen on Think Tech Hawaii every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. And with the show's host, Martin Desbang, we discuss architecture here in the Hawaiian Islands and how it not only affects the way we live, but other aspects of our life, not only here in Hawaii, but internationally as well. So join us for Human Humane Architecture every other Tuesday at 4 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii. Back to research. In Manoa, we're talking with Natalia Alzate about the solar eclipses and we're going to show you again an image that the group of the solar sherpas took of the, it's image number four that we saw earlier of the solar corona with the moon in front. Can we back up one image so we can see that shot of the moon? I just want to mention that the U.S. Postal Service right now has a sheet of stamps that you can get, postage stamps that look just like this. But in that case, someone had taken a separate picture of the moon and overlaid it onto the image of the solar corona, but it's also thermal, the ink that they used on the stamps. When you put your thumb on the stamp, you can make the moon appear and disappear. Oh, that's right. I really like that stamp. This image is not a composite image. This is actually the moon blocking the sun from the earth. So why are we seeing the moon? So that is Earth's light reflecting onto the moon, I believe. This is such an amazing picture. It is an amazing picture. Earth's shine. Earth's shine, yeah. It would show too how a full earth on the moon, even at the lunar night, you would see, it would be fairly bright on the surface compared to what you would put, a dark space on the earth at night, you know, in the desert where we put any street lights or something like that. Kind of interesting. Earth's shine. That's an amazing picture. Yeah. Yes, it is. So we're just sort of enthralled with this idea of people in a group going to all over the world looking at solar eclipses. So how many groups are there out there who do this? Actually we are the only group that does the science that we do. I mean, there are several groups that do go out and observe the eclipse, obviously, and they do what they do. But the type of science that we do and the things that we have found out during eclipses, we are the only group. And each eclipse has yielded a new result that we haven't had before. So that sort of sparks our addiction to keep chasing these events. Yeah. It's not just the same thing every time you're in the... Exactly. You don't just see the corona. I mean, it's gorgeous, yes, but we are able to extract science from every observation. You must have gigabytes of data. Well, I don't have it, so I'll have to check on that. But yes, so our... One of our team members, Milosh, Dr. Meehler, he processes the eclipse images. These gorgeous spectacular white light images specifically. And so he has a website where he has all of them. Oh, that's great. So at the very least, they are publicly available. When the eclipse happens, the equipment, these telescopes with the camera, it's fully automated so you don't have to worry about it and can enjoy the eclipse. Yes. We do have to do some monitoring. I mean, you want to monitor, but basically the software is set up to run the cameras. And that is precisely what we did in Svalbard. We just sort of... We let them run and we went out and enjoyed. And you don't want to be anywhere near where you might move anything with the eclipse. So you really need to be away from it. Yes. Depending on the instrument, but yes, for the telescopes, they are running for the telescope. I know that there's also a citizen science program going on, and I should have looked up the website. So that the people across the path of totality can email in images that they see, just for probably not in these different wavelengths. Right, no, no, no. To get an idea of what the eclipse looks like. Yes, so I mean, I'm not well versed in that project, but I do believe they're trying to put together a sort of a mega movie of sorts. So I mean, it's great to see the entire eclipse in a movie. Why not? But one thing that I will say since you brought that up is that, you know, if you're going to go out and see this eclipse, see the eclipse. You have to see the eclipse. I mean, you don't... You know, the sun's current is always there, but you don't always see it because the surface is so bright. So this is our only chance to really see it. I mean, science aside, it's just the gorgeous thing to see. Don't take pictures, just watch it and enjoy it. And there are plenty of references on NASA websites about the kind of glasses you should be wearing until the moment of total coverage. Yes, actually, and I'm glad you brought that up as well because some people don't realize, you know, that once the moon completely covers the sun, you can take off your glasses. Otherwise, you're not going to see anything, okay? But it is safe to see the corona. And so, you know, use the glasses to see the different phases of the eclipse when you see the moon moving over the surface of the sun, you know, because any little bit of sunlight is damaging. But once it is at totality, you are safe to take them off and you can enjoy the beautiful corona. And then put your glasses back on. Two and a half minutes. Well, there have been some, there have been seven minutes. So it does happen. It does happen. But yes, this one is a couple minutes, depending on where you're at, of course. What about the next image you have? Oh, yes. What is this? Image six. Yes. So this was a result from the 2015 eclipse over Svalbard. And this paper was published by Sharia Habal and Adi Ding just recently, actually. And so here what they did is, so Adi Ding built a spectrometer. And so what he did is he placed the slit of the spectrometer near the sort of the edge there, from the surface, if you will, and then moved it outward as the eclipse went on. So one thing that's interesting here, that's off those little rectangles. They each represent a certain speed of some of these structures that are moving. But the thing that was most interesting is that they found these parcels that have such a range in velocity from just under 100 kilometers per second up to 1500. That's the velocity of ions that are moving out? Yes. So some of this ionized material as it's moving. The neat thing that they found is that these parcels have cool material. So it's not just a CME, a hot material. It's also embedded or combined with some cool material. So the interpretation of this was that the CME is made of the hot material, but cool material that perhaps triggered the CME moves with this CME and it's moving away from the observer and the way they know that is because of the red shift from the Doppler shift that they found while they measured using the spectrometer. And the CME again is the coronal mass ejection. So the other thing to point out here is the fact that this parcel would be below the field of view of the coronagraph that I mentioned earlier, the one that simulates the total solar eclipse. So this would have been covered by that occultor. So you wouldn't have seen this result. So it has to be an Earth-based observation of an eclipse. Well, we have to be able to see the entire corona. Yes, yes. Wow. So yes, this is a very neat CME model. A very high speed. Because a kilometer is hundreds to a thousand kilometers per second. Exactly. Which is about hundreds of thousands of miles an hour or something. I, again, do that. Well, let's see. We measure, for example, CME the ejections in kilometers per second. So we're talking about 400 to 800 is the range for a CME. So we're talking about quite the range of speeds here. So it's not... Well, you have to be going 70,000 miles an hour to get into Earth orbit. That's what the orbital speed is. That's only like 11 kilometers per second or something like that. Wow. So these are really fast. Yeah, these are very neat results. So I think at four of the five sites, we're going to have a similar instrument, a spectrometer, also built by Addie Ding, that will carry out a similar experiment. So we'll see what we find. We have an image of the website that you're putting together. Yes. Last image, please. So in previous eclipses, the last two, I put together a blog to just kind of keep people updated on what we're doing, especially because we were going to such interesting places. So now what I've done, which I asked me to do, is to put together a website for the group. So this is a permanent site, and so it houses information on the eclipse, information on the Solar Wind Sherpas, our biographies, how it all started. And then there's a, if you see on the menu, it says science and news. So what I've put on there are the publications that have come out of these, so people can see that it's beautiful, but it's also scientific. And then under blogs, you can see the previous blogs, and I'll be updating the blog. I think I'll actually start blogging for this eclipse next day or so. And yeah, so I hope to be able to blog every single day. I've been able to do more or less previously, so I should be able to for this one. When are, when are you going to leave? You go to the mainland to go to whichever, what site are you going to be at? I'll be in Guernsey, Wyoming, but what we're doing is we'll leave Hawaii on the 11th. And so we're going to Boulder, Colorado, and from there, basically we're all meeting there, and then a couple of days later, we're sort of split to our different sites. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us. Thank you for having me. All about this solar eclipses. We really appreciate it. Thank you. It was fun being here. Thank you so much. Thank you.