 Question is from Andrew Beth. What is the ideal role that hit and list cardio play in a workout to maximize fat loss and retain muscle? Can you give an idea what a week would look like if incorporating those two forms of cardio? All right, so first is break those two down. So hit and list are acronyms. Hit stands for high intensity interval training. This type of cardiovascular activity is characterized by a short sprint followed by a slow relaxed portion and then a repeated attempt at the sprint. So if you're on a bike, you would go all out for 20 seconds and then maybe a minute and a half kind of slow, get your heart rate back down and then repeat it. List cardio or list stands for low intensity, steady state. This is the traditional form of cardio that most of us are familiar with where you just get on a elliptical, a bike or treadmill and you just cruise for 30 minutes. Now, what are their values? What are their detriments? Hit cardio, you're gonna get better performance. You might retain more muscle from doing it. You could do less of it and burn just as many calories so it's more time efficient. List cardio's benefits, it's easier on the joints, less likely to hurt yourself, less stressful for the body overall. So which one do you do and how much? Depends on who you are. If you are a cortisol junky stress person with low bad sleep, high stressed out job, you're already pushing your body to the limit with resistance training. Go list route. Yeah, go list, it's calming, it's relaxing, it's rejuvenating, go for a long walk, something like that. Do it that route. If you're super well recovered, if you're an athlete, you've got good biomechanics so you can sprint without running like an idiot and hurting yourself. Hit cardio, and if you're very timed, if you don't have much time, hit cardio can work very, very well. But it really depends on who you are because if you apply hit on the wrong person or list on the wrong person, you're gonna get terrible results. Yeah, I think too, like, you know, there's benefits and detriments. So it will put a little more wear and tear on your joints, like if you're doing hit cardio quite a bit, but you are stimulating that fast twitch muscle fiber response, which is, you know, simply you're not necessarily gonna get with list cardio. So, you know, just considering that in terms of like performance and overall function, like it's a good caddy to, and that's why you see a lot more athletes utilizing hit training. But it is, if you get a low impact type of equipment, like I use like an assault bike or something like that, where I can actually sprint where it's pretty relatively low impact on my joints, you know, you can actually like max sprint and you can sprint without actually getting that type of detrimental stress on the joints and, you know, it could be something that you can incorporate. But for the most part, it is something to consider, like how well are my joints, you know, reinforced and do I have that kind of stability to do it, you know, versus list will, you know, be another option again for somebody who's like always doing high intensity activities. So I'll give you an example, a generic example of how I use hit and list for somebody who's getting, trying to get shredded, right? So this is different than the recommendation for just general health, how I would utilize hit or list. Normally if I'm utilizing both hit and list with a client, we have a specific goal we're trying to shred down for a show and this is how I would use this. And again, this is generic, but give you an idea. So it's eight weeks left until showtime with a client that we had to present the best physique we possibly can. I've done my due diligence, I've built my client's metabolism up, they're eating a healthy amount of calories. They're stepping or walking moderately, which is probably six to 8,000 steps, maybe 10,000 steps depending on what kind of job they have is what was keeping them at this point. Now we have eight weeks left and we get to get ready for show. And up into this point, I have not used any cardio whatsoever. In fact, while I'm building a client's metabolism, I have them shut down all types of cardio. I don't want them going out of their way to move any extra. I'm trying to build muscle, get their calorie intake up as high as I can before I reverse them down. So now we get ready for the cut. So the very first thing that I'm going to do with that eight week mark is I'm actually going to increase their steps. And I typically increase about 2,000 steps a day, every day for the week. So if you're at averaging 8,000 a day, I tell that client eight weeks out, okay, now I want you to average 10,000 every day. Now, what that looks like is kind of like lists. I mean lists is low intensity, steady state cardio is pretty much walking around or hiking. It's pretty close to that, right? It's somewhere walking around or hiking outside is right between neat and probably less. And so I'm going to try and get them to just create more activity. I tell them, hey, go for an extra walk with a dog or walk with your spouse to try and get those steps. Now I'm going to keep increasing their steps week over week until they start getting to places like 12,000, 16,000 steps. Now they're starting to, now they're looking at clients normally around this point are telling me, okay, I am getting up an extra hour early and kind of walking. I walk the dog an extra time. My spouse and I walk after dinner this time and it's, I'm barely hitting my 14 to 16,000 steps you want me at. I go, okay, now let's introduce hit. So now what I want you to do is every day that you work out post-workout, I want you to do a 12 minute hit session. So after the theory and the idea behind that is that roughly 80% of their glycogen stores has been depleted when they've worked out. Now I'm going to completely deplete that for sure by doing 12 minutes of hit post. And so then they get this great fat burning effect over the course of the next half hour, hour, two hours until they re-consume and digest. And glycogen is the energy that your body utilizes from carbohydrates. And once you run out of that, then your body burns fat. Right. And so the theory and the idea here is that I make sure I deplete that completely from somebody. So now when they are driving home and preparing their next meal and then even consuming their next meal before that starts to get digested and then converted to glucose, their body is like metabolizing fat to get them there. So that's the idea. So then I introduce, and this is normally like hit doesn't come into play until about weeks, four or five, like say we have four or five weeks. So the first three weeks I'm just increasing steps. Then I use hit post-workout. I do that for probably two weeks. That's normally enough to kick up the, how many calories a day they're burning because we've now included in that. And now I'm going to start to add like hour bouts of like list cardio where I'd say, okay, this is our final four to five weeks before the show. Now you're doing your 12 minutes a hit post-workout. So we deplete the glycogen stores. Now, in addition to that, every other day on week, you know, four weeks out, I'm having you do an hour of lists. And then when it gets to three weeks out, I'm having you do it every day. And then that's kind of what it looks like leading up. You're ramping up to hit is the peak. Yes. So, and I start with hit before I do anything else because it's the less time demanding. It's only 12 minutes. I'm asking him to do that. And then I start to, the very last thing I start to recommend to client when trying to get shredded is the hour long sessions on the treadmill. And that's just because when I reverse them out the other direction, that's the first thing that goes. It's the most time consuming thing. And the rest is more lifestyle and short 12 minute bouts for me to reverse out of. It just seems to be the best strategy that I have found for competing clients and getting shredded. And that's kind of the model that I've used. Yeah. Now, no, here's the, here's how I like to look at cardio. I look at resistance training, lifting weights as the workout. That's when I'm training and pushing my body and working out. I look at cardio as a way to rejuvenate my body as an act is a form of active recovery. Okay. And this is for the average person that I would train. Now, when I would look at him that way, I almost never did hit because hit is more of a workout. It's more like resistance training than the list is than the steady state stuff. So if I have the, if I have the, if the person has the energy and the ability to push in a workout, I'm not going to do hit with them. I'll just do more resistance training. When I have them do the, you know, let's get recovery. Let's do active recovery. Let's rejuvenate the body. I just have them do less. And I like to have it in the form of walking outside or things that seem to feel rejuvenating. Now, if I do combine the two, because the last part of the question is, what would a week look like? I tend to do a two to one ratio. Two list workouts for everyone, hit workout. Now, I'm not talking about every single day. Usually what it looks like for the average person who's already fit and doing everything else right is two days of list cardio, one day of hit cardio. So that two to one ratio, because again, I want to minimize that high intensity push because I want to save that for the resistance training. No, and I think you're right to point that. I would totally not like do a regular workout and then hit, even with athletes. Like it was something that we would focus on, now we're in metabolic conditioning. We're conditioning the athlete now to then build up their endurance and then, you know, like emulate it somewhat towards their sport. So if it's like a few seconds of like high intensity bursts and then, you know, slow kind of movement right after that, you know, that's what it looked like. So it wasn't a combination of both.