 Welcome. Glad you're here. So glad that you've tuned in for another episode of The Nonprofit Show. This is Friday and I'm kind of singing already, but really glad to have the support from Fundraising Academy because they underwrite our Ask and Answer episodes each and every Friday. So thank you so much to our exclusive sponsor there. And as we move into the show, of course Julia's here, my good friend, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransome, her nonprofit nerd, and just really glad to be here, CEO of the Raven Group. And again, just thankful for our continued sponsorship from so many companies that have been here from the beginning. And those would be Bloomerang, your part-time controller, Fundraising Academy, nonprofit nerd, American Nonprofit Academy, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader, as well as the nonprofit Atlas. So if you have not checked out these companies, do yourself a favor, do your community a favor, do your clients in your mission a favor and check them out. Not right now, but after the Ask and Answer show. And if you've missed any of our episodes, you can find them on many of our streaming platforms, which include Roku, Fire TV, Vimeo, and what else did I miss there? Vimeo, Fire TV, YouTube, YouTube. And, oh wait, there's more. The sham, wow. If you buy four, you get one free. Now really, we're on podcasts. So if you are a podcaster like I am, I love to listen to podcasts in the morning and the evening and as well as I'm road tripping, go ahead and queue us up. You can listen to us on any of your podcast streaming channels, just say the nonprofit show and voila, Julia and Jared are in your ears. I love it. I think that's fabulous, really exciting. You know, we've only been doing this a couple months. We've obviously been now, Jared, as you know, we're into year three of our nonprofit show. But yeah, the broadcast, what's really interesting is Kevin Pace, our intrepid producer, just started doing this on the podcasting piece a couple of months ago and we just wanted to test it and see what was going on. And so far, the metrics are just like amazing, really getting a lot of folks listening to us. And so, you know, we want to say thank you because this is not anything that we thought would be a direction that would occur with the nonprofit show. We're so visual. We really have this broadcast mentality and so this has been a lot of fun and we're very, very grateful. So thank you, thank you. Okay, sister, are you ready because we've got some pretty heavy duty questions that have come in this week. I'm ready. Okay. All right. You know, I'm going to tell everybody again, Jared does not always see these, well, for the most part, she never sees these questions because they come in late. And so we're doing the show and then she's just seeing it. So always, I know you are in the hot seat. Okay, name, name with health city withheld, you know, sister, I love these because you know, they're always juicy questions. I lead the marketing communications for a nonprofit cultural organization. I was thinking about taking my four person team on some field trips of sorts to other nonprofits to see their marcoms teams doing things, marketing communications. Do you think this is a good or bad idea? I need to spark up my team a bit. Well, name withheld city withheld. I think going on field trips to other cultural organizations, I mean, you have to plan this, you have to plan to meet with a more com team, right? You can't just show up. I mean, of course, you can kind of do the generic benchmarking of what is their branding look like? What's the visualization? What's their placement? How you know, what is that? But I would really, I always love transparency. I love direct conversation. And I would really reach out to them to me, it would be an honor if someone reached out to me and said, I'd really love to meet with you, learn more about, you know, what you are putting as a priority in your marcoms to develop your mission, tell your story, and what you're doing in this creative deviation space, right? So yeah, I say reach out to them. Don't be afraid. Don't be shy. You know, really air from the whole side of collaboration, sharing of institutional knowledge to help the community. Right. I think the thing of it is, is that in the cultural space, organizations don't always play well together. And so you've got to be prepared to say, I'm going to tell you and show you what we are doing and what we have done so that you can be, you know, not just coming to say, we want your best ideas and then we're going to go, but that you can have a dialogue. And you know, it might even be interesting to know what people are paying, you know, in terms of like, well, what is this media outlet charging you and how much are you paying for this spot or, you know, that print campaign. But I think this is a great idea. I always agree with you, Jared, sharing this knowledge being transparent, but you need to understand that there's going to be some reluctancy on this. And so you've got to lead with what it is you're doing. So you made a comment that cultural organizations do not always work well together. Why is that? What are you seeing? You know, because what happens is that a lot of times the subscribe in the cultural space, generally, they're called subscribers, meaning like season ticket holders, but they're subscribers. So it might be like, okay, yeah, we've made purchases for this opera season or that ballet season or this symphony season or, you know, something of that nature. And a lot of times there can be conflicting dates, depending on the size of your community, right? And so sometimes it's too hard to say, oh, I was just at the ballet last night, I don't want to go to the symphony the next night, right? So they do kind of, yeah, they compete for that space, right? I mean, for that entertainment dollar. And we're not even talking about sports or, you know, other things that come in where there's a subscriber or season ticket kind of mentality. And so a lot of times these folks don't play well together. And, you know, so it's a little dicey on this, but we need to go back to kindergarten and learn how to share our toys, our ballet slippers and our trombones, our violins, I should say. Interesting. Well, good luck. I hope that you do do this. I think it's a cool thing. I really do. Okay, let's go on to Dayton, Ohio, named withheld writes, how often should a nonprofit redefine their values? We have not done anything to amplify the DEI part of our service or leadership in the community. Wow, interesting question. I need some support and creating and creativity to address this to leadership. DEI is not strategic to our nonprofit mission. I would say it is whether you know it or not. I would say it is. I think diversity, equity, inclusion, access is absolutely strategic to every mission. I agree. And one of the things we've talked about, Julia, is representation on our board, right? And that in and of itself should be strategic to your mission. And, you know, interesting name withheld that this comes up when, you know, a couple of years ago and we've been referring to the pandemic's plural, really looking at social injustice that we as a community, we as leaders need to do more than post a black box on our Instagram, make a statement, like we really need to, I've been advocating it has to be a line item in your budget. We really need to educate not only our staff but our volunteers. I actually often see and am hearing from leaders in my community that the staff isn't so much the problem. It's the volunteers. Oh my gosh, fascinating that they're old or older. They're they're stuck in their ways. You know, they're not in the 21st century with the vernacular and what has been, you know, appropriate and no longer appropriate. And so really, you know, this goes beyond your board table and it goes beyond your payroll. It really goes into, you know, every facet, I believe, of your organization. So I would highly recommend that you use the opportunity to talk to other organizations in your community or peers that you are professionally connected with, ask them what they are doing, do some research on best practices and trends, and just start dipping your toe in this so that you can, you know, go to leadership with, with, with data with insight with metrics and measurements. This is where I think we need to be to start. Ultimately, we can swing that needle far and wide, but we need to take some of these steps. I love it. I'm really, really intrigued by that. And I've got to say, I've had blinders on about that myself. I, I think, Oh my gosh, this is such a board centric issue. This is such a staff centric issue. Fascinating to talk about it that way. And I really, really appreciate that. Hey, before we move on to the next question, we did get up somebody that asked us, when will the recording of this be available? We do this show every day. We were closing in on 600 episodes and our team gets this up on all of our archive channels every day within just a matter of hours. So if you wanted to share this with somebody, you can definitely have access to those files. It could be that somebody asked a question that they want their, they want to share the answer. Of course. And what I like to say is stop binge watching these other episodes, binge watch the non-profit show. We're here 600 episodes for your viewing pleasure. It's true. Okay. Sean Arsene, I never know how to pronounce this from Fort Worth, Texas. Sean Arsene, however you say your name, is it appropriate to do a hybrid staff onboarding at this point? We have not had our staff on campus for almost two years. And I feel like we should reemphasize procedures and policies. Yeah, they've probably changed. At the same time, I want to be welcoming to our returning team members. Well, so when I read this, I think that onboarding is seen as like a punitive thing that somebody has to sit through. Interesting. Really interesting. I told you there were good questions today. You know, one of the things I noticed, we noticed at AFP icon was really this whole etiquette of being back in person. What it's like to be with your peers, your professionals, your co-workers, your supervisors. And I really do think that a lot of the landscape has changed. I think setting the tone and reestablishing your core values, how the office should be working and communicating both on campus or, you know, in your office, as well as virtually, like what is the communication standards? What is our tone of voice? What's appropriate? What's not appropriate? Maybe even you have to reemphasize the dress code while you're in the office, right? Those bunny slippers are not to be at the office. Keep those bunny slippers and yoga pants at home. Perhaps, right, if that's your setting. So I've also really seen policies strong change over this time. And so this is absolutely a great time to do a touch point with your current staff, but also new staff, to really reemphasize and to update, you know, kind of like an annual policy update or a bi-annual policy update. So I think this is a great opportunity. Why not do it virtually, as well as in person, that asynchronous is really, it's available now. So do it. I like that you said that, Jared, because I think that you're right. Things have changed, but sometimes things haven't changed, but it's great to get a refresher. So I like that you kind of pulled those two pieces together. What I'm thinking is a lot of people now have that ability to work remote. And so setting the expectation, you know, that here is our team. These are all the individuals that are here to support our mission. You won't always see them on campus or in the office. You know, we all have a different navigating schedule, but this is how you can connect. A lot of people have gone to Slack, you know, these online portals where you can message each other. Instantly, you know, Microsoft Teams, they have that as well. And so you really, really want to set the tone for what the culture in this asynchronous opportunity looks like. I love it. I think that's really wise. This is the part of the show where I say, you are the nonprofit nerd. Get those glasses on. Yeah, I like that. I really, really appreciate what you said. And I think that's something, hopefully, Sean or Cine, however, however you say your name. I hope that helps. Okay, let's talk to Evan from Phoenix, Arizona. I know this could be somebody we know. How long do you think a board member should serve before becoming board chair? We ask this because our current board chair is retiring and we don't have someone to take on the next role. We need to recruit new board members and are thinking specifically for a board chair. Is this a truly bad idea or not? Yeah. For me it is. I think I'll go ahead and go all in. Okay. Board chairs need to know how to run a good meeting. And that's the thing, that they are operating a meeting and if you don't have a good meeting structure, you're going to blow out the interest, time and talents of your board members or even bringing, recruiting new board members. So you've got to have a person that understands how to do this and how to be an effective board chair. And that's not everybody. You know, that's a tough thing. And a bad board chair can have a heart of gold and love the organization and the mission. But if they're not good at this type of leadership, I think it really imperils an organization. I also think that a board chair is a strategic leader. And if you haven't been with the organization, that's going to be really tough, really tough. So, you know, you've got to bring somebody in, maybe do a quick cultivation, but I sure as heck wouldn't just bring them on and then have them be like, okay, here's the new leader. What do you say, Ms. Jarrett? So I have mixed thoughts on this. We talk often about how, you know, many civically engaged individuals serve on multiple boards. And so even though this person might be new to your board, Evan, they could have board service, leadership, strategic, you know, visionary experience on other boards. So you might want to consider that. I do also recognize that every board culture is different. So that should take, you know, your tone and tenor should be considered there. But I also know the reality, Julia, that succession planning within the board is not always peaches and cream, right? It's not always achievable. It's not always achievable. And while I do subscribe to having a board chair, a vice chair, and then the vice chair rolls into the board chair next year, and that's kind of your, your feeding tube, if you will, that's the best case scenario. Does it happen all the time? No way it doesn't happen, right? And so that's something to consider. But I really think when you have an onboarding, if you onboard your board members properly, you show and model what it's like to be a board chair or vice chair and on any of those executive, you know, roles and positions. You really need to be working this, Evan, for all executive leadership roles, not just the board chair. So that's, you know, that's a bigger, that's a bigger, I don't know, task. But also a board liaison, Julia, can help with this, right? I'm surprised you didn't say that because that's one of your favorite things. And I've been thinking a lot about having a board liaison. And I really do think that he, she or they can really work with the board to identify what the board needs and how it can best be served by the board chair. So I have mixed thoughts. You know, I think you're right about, and yeah, shame on me for not like, you know, back up on my, my bandwagon, you know, to talk about the whole board liaison thing, because I, it's just such a critical piece to the success of any board. But I do, I do appreciate you bringing that up because I would say for me, as a board member, if I had to, if I was called up in kind of a perilous situation, and I knew that I had that support and I had that, you know, person marching with me, it makes it a lot easier to say yes to these board leadership positions. And you're, you and I know a lot of times people will say, yeah, I was made board chair because I didn't show up to that meeting and they voted me in. I mean, right? It's a tough thing. Yes. I was working with an organization and, you know, when I asked who the board chair is and they, they shared, and then the board chair said, it's because I was taking a bite of my sandwich and I could not say no. And so the joke had been like, nobody eat, no food at any meetings. It's really true. And you know, it's sad that, that we have that. It's so sad that we have that, you know, sensibility that it's going to be tough and brutal and no one wants to do it. And it's an honor. It's an honor. It's a big responsibility. Please take it lightly, you know, and it's a commitment. It's not for everyone. I'm in a season in my life right now. I actually don't even serve on boards unless they are related to my child and what he's involved in. But that's my season. And I know that I know how to run a darn good meeting, but I don't have the capacity or the bandwidth to do it. Right. And I think that that's why we get into these problems because it is a lot of work and there is a seasonality to what you can do, how you can participate, how you can fund, how you can support. I mean, it's not just the work that you're doing at that meeting during the meeting. It's all these other things. And there is a competitive set for time and attention and again, resources. So yeah, it kind of narrows the pool. And then to your point, you know, there's a lot of need. We have 1.8 million nonprofits registered in this country. So guess what? If you just have an average of eight to 10, you know, board members, which is kind of low, that was millions of people that are needed to serve our nonprofits in this in this capacity. And so yeah, it's a tough thing to your point, Jared. This is why we need to be cultivating continuously. Well, the other thing too I want to mention is, you know, and I mentioned this earlier in this answer is when one board member serves in a civically engaged, they're typically multiple engaged in multiple organizations. So I've also used that as a huge sales tactic and pipeline of mine, because if I can work and network with board members, that's typically a three, four prong sales pipeline, right? Because they serve on multiple boards. So trick of the trade there for all of you consultants. But additionally, you need to review your bylaws. What if there is something that happens internally with the organization, and it states that the board chair in absentee of the CEO takes over that CEO responsibility, like look at your bylaws, because that's really important to consider as you move towards succession, not only with your board, but with your internal leadership, because you really need to know, do you have the bandwidth and ability to step in to your true fullest form as that as that title? Wow, yeah, that that's that's an intense conversation and even thought to have. Yeah, because you know, if you have a partner at home, if you have a partner at work, your children, like, it's a commitment. Absolutely, it's a commitment. But we have a tremendous need for this leadership. It is so worth it. It is character building, community building. It is, dare I say business building. It's a cool thing to do. And so I'm I'm all about it and I and I really wave that flag. And we celebrate those that do, right? I mean, Nancy, sorry for any of you named Nancy. But you know, it's it's an honor, and it's a responsibility. And it's, you know, we celebrate that. So here's, here's my fireworks. I love it. Well, hey, sister, you always give me fireworks. Jared Ransom, nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been delighted to have you all with us. And again, we want to thank all of our sponsors that are with us each and every day. Blue Morang, your part time controller, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, Fundraising Academy, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader, and the Nonprofit Atlas. These are the folks that marched forward with us in promoting the sector that we are so passionate about and so dedicated towards. Hey, everybody, enjoy a restful weekend. Jared, thank you for supporting one of our viewers today as she is being awarded a prestigious honor for her community support. Super cool that that you're going to do that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for all of you joining us, either live or recording. Again, all of our episodes, you can find them on the internet. You can also find them on podcast forums. So please do queue them up if you're looking for something fun to do this weekend. We'll be back on Monday. We have quite a lineup for next week. We are booked out through August with some really phenomenal thought leaders around the globe. So we used to say that we are the nation's only live nonprofit webcast, but really we're moving into international space. So we're really glad to do that. And of course, thankful to all of you. Julia, we always end our episode and I know that it means more and more every day we see it say it and we see it being said. But for all of you and ourself, please stay well so we can all continue to do well. Thanks, everyone. Have a great weekend, Julia.