 Good morning everybody. Can everybody hear me okay? Somebody could just quickly give me a thumbs up and the chat would be helpful. First of all, good morning, good afternoon, good evening depending on where you are across the world. It's a very early morning in Ireland so please bear with us as we begin to work through the technology. We are live on Facebook and streaming on the Mauritian diaspora server page I believe so I think that link will be shared in the chat as well in the next few moments. I just wanted to take a very quick moment to welcome you all and to say a very warm thank you to folks. I see some names that have also joined us earlier in the week so it's great to see some friends back and we're delighted to say that we're hosting our second webinar to share some of our reflections and recommendations from the research journey on the Mauritian diaspora. Well we have a really interesting addition to the lineup this morning in the form of the diaspora themselves and two folks who have been very very helpful for us and we'll share more information on that in the moment. But just a couple of quick house rules to begin and I think Tanya will speak to these more broadly but just to give you a quick quick sense of that as I mentioned we are streaming live on Facebook. So please just be sure but as we say in our reminder please and cues and we remain respectful to everybody. I think just for people that haven't been to the first session just to let you know how you can interact because we are keen for you to to engage as much as you wish and as much as possible. If you have any chat and any comments or reflections feel free to use the chat section either on comment section on Facebook or the chat function here on zoom. For example if you have any questions that you want to ask please feel free to share them either on Facebook as I mentioned but also through the Q&A section and functionality of the zoom platform. So I'll pause here for a moment because I want to hand the mic to our colleagues at the IOM for some very short welcoming remarks before we get into the wider agenda that some of you may have seen. So thank you for your time thank you for your attention and I will now hand to my colleagues in IOM for their contribution. Thank you very much. Thank you Martin. Thank you Emira. Thank you everyone. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. It's great to see a lot of people coming from all over the world. I will be very very short. I'm Celine Lamelle. I'm the head of the IOM office here in Mauritius. And it's my real pleasure today to be with you to have you on this webinar. So as Martin has said it's the second one that we're hosting we have another one tomorrow. And we are really happy to have participants of the survey that we conducted in from October to December last year but also to have people from all over the world from the diaspora also from Mauritius to really reflect upon the results and the recommendations and to help us think about the future and build the future together. So with no further ado I will hand over to Tanya for presenting the program. And I would just like to really give a special thanks to our two guests of honor today who are a member of the diaspora advisory group in that we conducted in Australia and who will also intervene in this webinar. So thank you very much to you. And over to you Tanya for the presentation of the project. Hi. Good morning everyone. So I joined Celine to thank you all for joining us today. So before jumping into the main part I think that everyone is interested which is the recommendation I will just give you a brief overview of a project. So some of you might already know who some of you who took part in the in the consultations last year so from October to December we conducted a series of consultations in three parted countries so Canada, Australia and the UK. We did go to understand better the size and skills and expectations of the diaspora to strengthen the relationship between diaspora, Mauritian diaspora and Mauritius. Now that we have finalized the results of this consultation we are very pleased to hold this series and to welcome you all from around the world to this session where we will present the recommendations and hear from you on what you will consider as priorities so we may better support such initiatives and programs. We also wish to thank the members of the advisory group in the free pilot countries for all the efforts and contribution, which made this project a success. And, as well as everyone who participated in the interviews and completed the question is during the last round of consultations. So today we have the pleasure of welcoming Mr. Clancy Philip and Mr. Bernard Bousouat, members of the advisory board in Australia. I also wish to extend my thanks to Dr. Martin Recells and Ms. Emira Aditi who I think most of you might already know by now who are you and researchers who have conducted the consultations and worked on the recommendations. So, before we start I will just go rapidly over the agenda. So, Emira will start with all the recommendations and then we will have Clancy Philip and Bernard Bousouat with some reflections on the project and we can then move on to your feedbacks on the Q&A and discuss about the next steps. So, as Martin I think already went through, I'll just go through the house rules. So, your mic would be automatically muted whilst a speaker is presenting, but just in case this does not occur please ensure that your mic is muted when someone is speaking. And feel free to comment in the chat box respectfully to all participants and attendees in your comments. So, you can also ask any questions in the Q&A and we'll try to answer these questions throughout the session. The webinar is also being streamed on Facebook as Martin said, so please bear this in mind and without further ado I will let Martin start with the recommendations. Martin and Emira start with the recommendations. Thank you. Thanks Tanya and Celine and just to re-emphasize that we very much see this as a dialogue so please do engage with your comments and reflections in the chat. But also your questions, we are more than happy and for people who joined the first session for example we have heard feedback from that session and additional questions. So, we didn't have time to get to them on the first session but we'll address them later on so please do engage and be as open and challenging and maybe if you want as well in terms of the questions. It's very much a safe space and an open space so we welcome all questions and comments. On that note I will hand over to my colleague, Mr. Emira Agiti who has very much did the brains of this team. So, Emira the platform is yours and we look forward to hearing your overview of the recommendations. Hello all, thank you Martin. Good morning and good evening to all the attendees. It's a different time zones for all of you, for myself here in Boston it's late late evening or early morning. So it's a pleasure to see the attendee list as well as lots of the familiar names from advisory board members as well as other diaspora members that we have interviewed or spoken to in the past throughout this research project. We're very thankful for everyone's inputs and as Martin said so the webinar we held the first webinar we already held was very interactive and we're hoping that this one will be too. On that note, for all of you who are watching us on Facebook as well as those that are on the zoom platform, please do engage. Please provide us feedback whether that's positive or whether you have concerns. It's all welcome. It's very useful and actually that's why we're here. And so without further ado I'll start sharing my screen with the presentation. It has only a few slides. So it's not a super long presentation but we're trying to give you a overview of the preliminary findings and hopefully you will have questions and we can have a thorough discussion on lots of the recommendations that I'm going to present soon. So, just let me know in case the screening doesn't share screening doesn't work. But I suppose it should be fine. Just one second bear with me. Can you see the screen now. Yep, perfect. Perfect. Okay, so I'll continue quickly with research recommendations. And so the point of this presentation to you today is to provide you with the overview of some of the preliminary findings of the research. And the outputs of this research wouldn't have been doable or successful without all the time and effort that was given to us by diaspora members that we have interviewed all the networks that were shared with us by diaspora members, as well as their thoughts and their hearts. So we really are thankful and appreciative of all of their time. In the next slide, we'll start right away with addressing diaspora engagement and why now. It's important to note that as you see in the cover of the economist on this slide, diaspora engagement has been out there for a very long time. This slide actually and this cover page of the economist it's not new it's probably a decade old. And the title magic of diaspora has been around addressing that topic. However, globally diaspora engagement is emerging as a key development policy of choice for government in the last decade and recently. If you look at some data, there's about 100 countries worldwide that have been developing some sort of a framework for diaspora engagement for engagement of their people abroad. Passion for homeland basically is a constant for diaspora globally. Hence, we strongly believe that Mauritius should also be a part of this conversation and should be a lead of this conversation as well. And to develop a successful framework for diaspora engagement and hopefully build a coherent interaction with its diaspora. In the second slide, we have diaspora capital as a notion that we have discussed and considered throughout this project quite a bit. So we were wondering to understand what Mauritius diaspora capital entails diaspora capital as a general is way more than simply remittances or migrants. There are resources that are available to a country region city location or organization. It's made up of people networks finance ideas attitudes and concerns for their place of origin ancestry or affinity. So in the context of Mauritius Mauritian, for example, it's way beyond, as I said, some of the main notions that we have heard so far in terms of remittances or investments. It's also skills transfer. It's also ideas and attitudes. It's for instance, ethics of work. It's a lot of know how and knowledge that can be brought from diaspora towards the homeland. And in that context, it's also the networks of diaspora as mentioned in this definition and helping of basically engaging with the government as well as building the image of Mauritius abroad. In the beginning of the project, we had to undergo a few series of questions to basically understand what are the next steps and how to proceed in terms of developing a successful diaspora engagement. And also for us to ask a few data questions such as who are the diaspora. So, understanding who are the diaspora in order to understand what activities should be brought upon the diaspora engagement. What is the definition for diaspora, where are the diaspora so for this particular project, it was a pilot project and we focused on three key countries on Australia, Canada and the UK. We have communicated with diasporas from these three countries in various ways. And most importantly, what are they doing. So what are the diaspora doing at the moment, in order to understand also as and the following design questions, what are the aims, concerns and needs and hopes of the Mauritius diaspora. In all in all, this was very much so beginning of a listening exercise for us. And we only hope that exercise of listening will continue in the future, especially with the development of a framework for diaspora engagement. And throughout these research interviews and gathering of data through survey we have noted a lot of information that helped us also understand the design questions. For instance, it was crucial for us to understand that for Mauritius diaspora. It is important that we tackle not only how can diaspora support Mauritius, but also how can Mauritius support the diaspora. So engaging with successful diaspora members but also the vulnerable groups, as well as having a beneficial and mutual relationship of respect but also trust and an ethics of care which we will also mention later when we talk about the recommendations. And they are crucial to understand what are the interests of diaspora for their future relationship with Mauritius. And this is something that we also have tackled in the recommendations and some actions that we proposed. Naturally, the next questions that we tackled and thought of were the operational questions that come back to the design questions about what policies, programs, projects can we shape in the short term and mid term. And what is the role of each stakeholder in this work. So beyond popular belief, the role of various stakeholders goes beyond the government, as well as the diaspora it involves the private sector. It involves non governmental organizations they all play a very crucial role in terms of developing a successful diaspora engagement platform. It was fortunate for us to actually know throughout this research that Mauritius diaspora is actively engaged and has a strong passion for homeland, which is why we simply need to understand the mechanisms to build a culture of diaspora engagement and that actually would lead to a successful diaspora engagement. In the next slide, I will go over a brief overview of the methodology without going into too much length. So in the context of the methodology used for this research, we have to understand that it was under the time of the pandemic. So basically field work was something that we needed to understand how to tackle with other means of the digital research interviews that were undertaken, but also to ensure that there is local ownership of the project. And creation of these three merchant diaspora survey advisory groups was crucial to that, as well as their time and leadership was critical to the success of developing these recommendations so we are very very very thankful to the three merchant diaspora survey advisory groups that were created in the three countries that we worked in in Australia, Canada and the UK. And today actually we are very pleased to have here two members of the advisory group in Australia, who will be also explaining this research journey together with us so I won't go into too much detail there, because they will be probably addressing them. And another part of the methodology that was crucial was actually understanding and mapping the diaspora organizations, some of which were more formal and others that were more oriented towards digital development and more informal, even considering networks or networks of professional Mauritians abroad in different categories. Another way of gathering data was of course having the surveys that were mentioned thus far, gathering survey responses, stakeholder research interviews and basically any other means of collaboration and discussion with the Mauritians diaspora. We also held various webinars in order to engage in different topics. And we remain thankful for all the time that was given to us throughout this research. It is crucial to also note that our research was an independent research. So it is something that we tried to rely across in every communication that we had with merchant diaspora, because we wanted to ensure everyone that all the information gathered and shared with us was kept confidential. And it simply translated into the recommendations and it informed the recommendations that you will see presented today before you. Next slide. I'm trying to get to the recommendations quickly so that I save on time and we have a fruitful discussions. So please send your comments and questions on Facebook or on the Q&A box here. The general reflections before we go to the recommendations was that the diaspora Mauritian diaspora is a gendered and generational diaspora. When I say gendered that means that it basically is very diverse and that the values of mainstreaming gender is are very important to Mauritian diaspora. And also in the form of the development of the country of Mauritians. So this is something that we need to consider strongly when developing diaspora engagement. Another point is the generational point of Mauritian diaspora. This is also very crucial. There was quite a bit of nervousness from some of the Mauritian diaspora members in terms of the new generations and what kind of connection or relationships will the generation of Mauritians have with their home countries. In terms of even success some of these organizations, diaspora organizations that are in different countries abroad. They were unsure of what their members, newer members, younger youngsters would actually develop in terms of the relationship with Mauritians. So it's crucial that the inclusivity is part of the diaspora engagement with Mauritians, and that we understand that the youngster Mauritians would actually have a quite a different engagement with Mauritians back home. So this is important to understand and tackle when building a diaspora engagement platform. Another fortunate point was that we noted a very strong capacity and propensity of Mauritian diaspora. So there was a very strong interest in engaging with Mauritians and strong connectivity with Mauritians. It's important to unlock this potential. And to the other point, the next point about transitioning through trust and voice, it's important to do that through a relationship of trust and mutual benefits built through the ethics of care that was mentioned earlier. It is crucial for us to pass along that the Mauritian diaspora is not homogeneous, it has various interests and it entails various groups of individuals that actually want to bring their interests across. And this is something that needs to be kept in mind when developing the diaspora engagement platform. The next slide gets us into the recommendations. And so the system of diaspora engagement for Mauritians is developed of the four strength recommendations that work towards the inward and the outward development inward in terms of the development of the institutions within Mauritians to actually develop the management of the successful and external and outwards in terms of the diaspora networks and diaspora individuals in order to develop a more structured approach to their engagement. If you look at the first strength and the institutional leadership development. It addresses exactly that so development of the capacities of the government of Mauritians of diplomatic groups and different constituencies abroad of how to actually develop a diaspora engagement that's strength to on the other hand diaspora social and cultural capital program addresses exactly diaspora associations and development and strengthening of their efforts and cooperation and also cooperation with diplomatic missions abroad. And then we have also strength three, which is self explanatory diaspora human capital program. It deals a lot with a skills transfer that was mentioned earlier, and that seemed to be crucial to a lot of respondents and diaspora members that we spoke to. So they were all interested in actually giving back through their skills, and we're interested in various programs of skill transfer that were that could be part of the diaspora engagement. And then we have the last trend, trend four, which is diaspora economic capital program. We will go further into depth of each of these trends and discuss a little bit about some recommended actions. And I say some because these are only a few of the recommended actions and of course that they are very flexible and very few tiles so we could discuss about them further in the Q&A session. If we look at the strength one, as I mentioned earlier, it is about leadership development and capacity development. We have some recommended actions. The first one being establishment of diaspora cell, which is crucial for engagement of diaspora in order to provide a home, institutional home for diaspora engagement, and showcase importance of diaspora engagement to government of Mauritius. This is also crucial because it cuts diaspora engagement cuts across many different portfolios, including private sector, media, academia and more. So it's crucial to build that collaboration across sectors. The next recommended action is diaspora engagement training program for government of Mauritius. There's various best practices in terms of what is happening globally to develop training programs that would help Mauritius institutions within Mauritius as well as those operating abroad to actually develop a successful diaspora engagement. And the last recommended action of this strand is also very crucial. It entails development of a first national diaspora strategy. In this case, I mentioned crucial a few times because through this strategy easily Mauritius could address policy and legislative treatment of various barriers that exist to engagement. And, for instance, something that was brought up to us throughout these research interviews quite a bit was the voting rights, as well as quite a bit of other issues that could be tackled through this strategy. Under strength to, we have a few, a few recommended actions as well. As far as the titles, for instance, the Mauritius means campaign, this is a placeholder title so we'd rather see something that is locally titled. It's just an example. This would be developed further, of course. Mauritius means campaign is mostly a public and cultural diplomacy campaign so that Mauritius can engage more with councils and diplomats and help the development and further strengthening of networks. Something that we have noted throughout this conversation with different diaspora members was that a lot of their networks, while quite efficient within the network were not as cooperative with other networks in different countries of Mauritius, or even with other institutions of Mauritius abroad. So it is important that this is tackled and that this cooperation and network is strengthened so that all the diaspora engagement is absorbed by diaspora abroad. That goes towards the second recommended action, which is Mauritian diaspora leadership network. So, as mentioned earlier, it is important to build tailored networks of various interests. We have spoken to various diverse groups of members of diaspora, some of which were academics, or other were various researchers who were simply interested in engaging with various professionals of similar interests in Mauritius or abroad. So this is something that should be addressed through this recommended action. And then lastly, we have the Mauritian diaspora summit, which is basically a gathering of all diaspora members of interests, similar interests, and discussing and exchanging ideas. So this is extremely important. But of course, in the times of the pandemic, this is something that needs to be looked into of when is the right time to actually undertake this recommended action. And then we have strand three, which is human capital development program. This entails a few recommended actions, such as Mauritian diaspora fellows, considering that the academia world of Mauritians has actually undertaken quite a bit of initiatives already. And in this stage, something like a diaspora fellowship program could be actually the next right step for Mauritians abroad. So it would mean that a lot of the researchers or even academia abroad of Mauritians could come back to Mauritian, Mauritius for for a short period of time to actually contribute back as well as help various potential immigrants and youngsters who are interested in having internships abroad and developing exchange programs. That brings us towards the Mauritius mentors initiative. So this is an initiative that we had in had entailed a digital platform we were thinking of recommending a digital platform to provide remote mentorship to Mauritians, whether they're youngsters abroad or youngsters in Mauritius. This is something that can be done in various ways. So of course that beyond the remote mentorship, we could have a different researchers academia or professionals who would help various Mauritians to develop professionally, whether that's abroad or Mauritius or just open networks for them. So there were different ideas while we were speaking to different members of diaspora throughout these research interviews. And then we have the Mauritius next generation camp, which is something that has worked really well globally for different diasporas so there's a lot of best practices, and this basically would tackle quite a bit. What diaspora would like to see for their children this is something that we've heard throughout the interviews that they would like to see that connection as basically continue throughout generations. We then have left the strand for so straight for which is diaspora economic capital program. Of course that the first recommended action within this trend is Mauritius diaspora tourism initiative. We would consider that this initiative could be a open invitation to diaspora for a certain period of time for them to come back and try to build incentive to come back. We can strategically target second and third generation also to strengthen their ties to where it's Mauritius. We have also heard quite a bit about the cost of traveling to Mauritius so this is something that could also be tackled with various private sector stakeholders in collaboration. The next initiative recommended action would be Mauritius diaspora trust one. This is something that would probably come at a later stage because it needs quite a bit of a strong leadership from diaspora, and it can be built in various models and various ways. The relationship of trust and transparency needs to be at a very advanced stage. However, in general, when it comes to the investment journey for diaspora. We have noted throughout our research that this is probably in the mid to long term rather than in the short to mid term recommendation, because at the moment diaspora seems more so interested in philanthropic giving and social development giving. And that takes us to the next final recommended action for this trend, which is Mauritius diaspora business competition. So a lot of the business network already businesses already operating in Mauritius as well as abroad, have various means of connection so we've spoken to many of them and this is elaborated quite a bit in the research. Developing a business competition would be very encouraging for actually developing a more successful collaboration between businesses abroad businesses in Mauritius and just exploring opportunities of cooperation. And this is about it I think in terms of recommended actions I tried to go through them speedily maybe I hope they were clear however I'm more than happy to elaborate on each one of them. As within the report that would be made public quite soon, you will see that these are elaborated further on. And as mentioned, these are also placeholder recommended actions so there's a lot more than can be developed around these trends. And it's important to have a structure and a coherent diaspora engagement that would actually benefit all, and it would be in the interest of diaspora. That said, hence your comments your feedback your suggestions or requests for clarifications are very important. And that's the point of these webinars. It was only fair for us to share these recommendations that actually came from all the discussions that we had with diaspora, as well as with institutions in Mauritius as a final slide. It's a simply thank you slide, but it's a very important slide. Specifically, all these outputs would not be possible without all the time and effort put in by diaspora members by advisory groups as I mentioned we are immensely thankful by Mauritian diaspora everywhere that we have spoken to, as well as by the team at especially Tanya, Tanya was extremely helpful in coordinating all of the activities in the past year, as well as this year to date. So we remain thankful for that and we hope we can be at your service. I think I shared in the chat box earlier a link for basically scheduling a one to one consultation with us, and I say consultation but it's more a meeting where we can hear your ideas, your suggestions or feedback should you have time or desire to do that. So basically find whatever means and whatever platform that works for you, and we are here to listen and understand more and develop something that is actually useful for everyone. Thank you again. Do I go back to you, or do we straight ahead go to our members of advisory group for for their speaking side. Perfect. For first of all, thank you Mara and just to re emphasize, please comment and share questions we're more than happy to answer anything that you would like to answer. So, I think we just don't move to probably the most important speakers of the day in the sense of the diaspora so maybe if you can just introduce speakers and we go from there. It's my pleasure to introduce the speakers then I would first call on Clancy, Mr Clancy to actually share with us the journey of this research as well as provide us with feedback on recommendations. Thank you again in advance and happy to hear your story. Okay. Am I on now. Yes, yes you're on. Please go ahead. It's been quite an interesting journey to the point that it came out of the blue. And there were a lot of questions asked in the first place. And the most important question was what is it all about. Initially, we wanted to show what it was going to lead to but I think eventually, as we went through and got things explained it became clearer and clearer there's still a lot of questions that people are still asking. One of the things is that like I'm talking about the Mauritian diaspora from my perspective in, especially in Melbourne in Australia. There's a lot of diaspora capital here that really wants to connect with Mauritius but the unfortunate experience has been, it's been almost like a one way type of movement. There was a lot of willingness about Mauritians in Australia to connect with Mauritius but in return, the connection wasn't there and that took a lot of discussion and a lot of time. In fact, to the point that there was some sort of mistrust in between in between the two. But eventually, I think at least it's something that's being put together to actually address that. There's a lot of work to be done in terms of exploiting this capital and about what sort of connection can we have. The next one was the interest of the Mauritian diaspora in Australia about connecting the Mauritian diaspora in Australia is a bit fragmented in certain ways. That also needs to be brought together in terms of getting a bit of unity and in terms of connection before or before or even whilst we're trying to connect with a diaspora in Mauritius so there's a lot of work there. I think we've progressed a fair bit and I like some of the work but some of the work I like the work that's been put together in terms of giving some sort of a structure within which to work. To exploit whether it's the human capital in terms of knowledge whether it's the financial side of thing. But on top of all this I think one of the strongest link between the diasporas of Mauritians throughout the world and also in terms of connecting with Mauritius is the emotional connection, the emotional connection is very strong. Having said that it's very strong within the Mauritian community of the older generation because they've got this connection with Mauritians because they've lived there before they moved across. Some of the younger ones are connected but it's going to be a much tougher task to get them involved and we need to get them involved. A lot of them want to know more about Mauritius. One of the elements of which I've got a particular interest about Mauritian cuisine, all Mauritian kids love Mauritian cuisine and they want to know how. That's a very very strong connection. Talk to Mauritians everywhere, anywhere food brings them together. So that's a very important link. I think the cultural link is quite important. Having said that I welcome all the findings and I think we will need to work together. The structure that's been put together we need to do more work on that in terms of getting people on board. There's still a bit of lack of trust in terms of a program and where it's leading and all the rest like in a lot of people were talking about the transparency in between inverted commas sort of thing. In Australia we've got this culture of everything is more transparent than transparent which creates if you're problem by itself whereas we tend to see with Mauritian government everything tends to be like kept away or not quite open. So they need to be some some adjustment to be done between the two but overall I think it's been it's been good work is the beginning of it all. We just need to progress further within the framework that's been established. Thank you all for the work that's been done. I'm quite looking forward to see what it leads to would be very interesting. Thank you so much Clancy indeed cuisine was something that was mentioned throughout all of our research interviews youngsters and older generations they all had that in common. It actually brought them all together so it's something very important, and it's part of that cultural and social strand actually so definitely needs to be tackled as far as recommended actions. As far as the beginning of the journey, definitely so we really remain hopeful that the relationships that we have built are based on mutual trust and that that will only continue and further strengthen. Thank you so much. I will invite now Bernard to actually join in as well and share his thoughts of the research journey and his feedback on recommendations. Okay. Let me know if you have trouble hearing me at all. We can hear you well. Okay that's good. So yes my name is Bernard so I live in Canberra and my main connection to the Mauritian community diaspora is through the Canberra community radio program, which I started a few years ago, and which really plunged me into this whole world of community and thinking about community and that sort of thing, which has been a really positive experience for me. I'll begin by saying that I think the hello can people hear me. Yes, yes we can hear you. Okay, I've just got the buffering sign here that's a Bernard, I think now we can't hear him. Let's wait for a little bit. Okay. Maybe we can come back to Bernard Martin. Yes, sounds good, sounds good. And that's kicking some questions and comments and reflections and we can come back to Bernard when the collection gets better. So, first of all, I want to say thank you to the agency and all the team and everybody involved. We have a question from from she would keep feeding your questions in and we have some that were kind of sent in in advance but also one for example that came in after the previous session so what we will do is also address that question more broadly. So the first question from from she, which is a very timely one and a very important one I think is, is there any recommendations mentioned that are being implemented now, such as any action can coming forward. So, remember would you like to answer maybe Tanya may have some quick comments or reflections on that from my website, and I can also come in if helpful. Thanks Martin yes I think Tanya will definitely answer this question better. But as far as the recommendations so the first one that comes to mind is the actual action plan so that is the first activity that will be and is being implemented right now, in terms of designing all the details of it as well as within the first trend of leadership and institutional development, but I asked for a cell that was going to be built I think, even earlier last year but due to the pandemic it will probably be built some time this year within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is the first step towards that recommended action within that strength. Tanya over to you or Martin over to you, whichever you wish. Yes, thank you Amira I think yes you already answered the question but just want to add on that so that some of you might be aware that the recommendations went through cabinet and was approved that the report at least was approved on the end of February. So as Amira mentions part of the project that we're currently doing was to support the build up of a cell the setup of a cell at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Diaspora. So this was not this was delayed due to the pandemic but we hope that this can be concluded this year or soon at least and then we are currently with your assistance working on this action plan. To put all of these recommendations to make them almost. So, thank you. Thank you. I think I will now like. Over to Martin if you want to add anything else. Thank you. Perfect. Perfect. I think Bernard is back so I can see him so we can jump back to the quick know you're fine my friend. It's technology right. So, I'll hand back to you my friend and we look forward to hearing your reflections. Thank you. Can you tell me where about you lost me was I talking about diaspora capital at that point. No so it was just before I'd imagine just before that section. So I'll start back there. I was basically saying, I agree with what Amira said that, you know about diaspora capital. And I think it's fair to say, the Mauritian community in Australia has considerable diaspora capital and I'm not just talking about money. I'm also talking about cultural and community capital. And the Mauritian community is fairly passionate about deploying cultural capital and diaspora capital if you want to call it that to promote community and culture we're very proud people and we are proud of our culture. That includes food music dancing parties, family connections all that all that stuff. Very proud of all of that and sharing it with others and sharing it with a broader Australian community. But it does, it tends to be fairly locally deployed. There are, and also, it lacks that kind of overall coordination, because there isn't a kind of a formalized coordination of that sort of capital in Australia. What that means is that sometimes people can fall through the cracks and I've been particularly concerned about the more vulnerable Mauritians who are in Australia. Particularly at this time when there's so much disruption and uncertainty, having access to reliable capital, either from the Mauritian government or from local people who are able to help. One of the biggest things that I think we can do is connecting people who've been in Australia for a very long time with people who've just arrived in order to, to give them an opportunity to share what they what they have and to have that communal community experience, because in particular young students who come here, they're starting off. Sometimes it's just about helping them fill out Centrelink forms or, you know, apply for university forms and that sort of thing. But people who are here can do that a lot better. And there's a huge amount of possibility that we can help with that. So that's kind of that all pretty much is reflected in the recommendations that you've put forward. I think there's an issue in terms of centralized coordination that we tend to think that that's better. But centralized coordination not done well is actually not necessarily better. So perhaps people would prefer an ad hoc approach where they were more in control of things than to have a centralized system that wasn't particularly trustworthy or reliable and so there's an onus for this in this sort of approach to make sure that people have trust in the process that is being developed to centralize and coordinate. And I think that you've picked up on that too and some of what others have said reflects that too. And the last thing I wanted to talk to a little bit was in relation to the young younger generations. I encountered them a fair bit in my working on the radio. And as Clancy did say, they're quite different. And we're being forced in a way to think outside the box which is actually a positive thing. When it comes to young people and younger Mauritians and even the concept of what it means to be Mauritian, when your parents are the ones who were born in Mauritius and you were born in Australia or even your grandparents were from Mauritius but your parents were born in Australia, which is we're seeing we're seeing a bit more of that now. And it's kind of almost been accelerated by the whole COVID situation and what's been going on there's a lot of disruption and some of that we won't really get to the bottom of and see exactly how it is affecting things but I think governments are maybe picking up that that the idea of migration and the flow of human beings from place to place is going to probably be one of the key drivers of wealth at a national level in the 21st century. So those countries who who work that out well are going to be the leaders and those countries that don't do a good job of that are going to lag behind. And there's some thinking that must go into that and part of that I think is about thinking about where what community means and what people mean when they say the word community and identity. And in the context of the Mauritian community here in Australia, and particularly with younger people. I find that for those of us who were born in Mauritius we have a pretty clear idea of what Mauritius is and what it's like. I don't think that's necessarily true of younger people who were not born in Mauritius. What they tend to have is an identity that's brought together from different experiences from their parents and what their parents talk about grandparents, perhaps family friends who are also Mauritian. So they kind of adopt that identity and they own it. But they fill it up with their own ideas of what Mauritian this is. And within that context, there is a space for having a bit of a different conversation about what it means to be Mauritian. So we traditionally, I guess, tend to fall back on, well, if you were born in Mauritius, you're Mauritian. But with the future people, what does it mean and it comes back a bit to culture and belonging and that sense of I actually want to be identified as a Mauritian. I want to belong to this community, which is a really positive thing and I'm pleasantly surprised that younger people are very passionate about this. And so, you know, the community organizers in Australia think are challenged, and myself included, to think about presenting Mauritianness and Mauritian culture to this new generation that may not have the background that older Mauritians might have. And presenting that to them and saying this is your, these are your cultural assets, the cultural heritage that we've brought here. And I think in doing that, it opens up a slightly different conversation. One of the things that's going to be a challenge for this process, I think, is that the, the Mauritian diaspora in Australia is not exactly the Mauritian community in Mauritius. There's, there's some value differences, and there's some expectation differences, particularly as regards the government of a particular place. So there's going to be a conversation about what is expected, and how that actually bears into what is contributed and how it's kind of deployed and all of that stuff. Because Mauritians who live in Australia have naturally slightly different life experiences and different expectations as to those sorts of things. And, and I think that's actually a positive thing it will help, because it is a conversation I think that ultimately that's what it boils down to. We're opening up a conversation, not just along the lines of diaspora and Mauritius but cultural community belonging people coming here migration all of that stuff. So, where that goes is the establishment of formal mechanisms or slightly more formal mechanisms for having those conversations and hopefully building commitments into those conversations and resources into those conversations. And I'm very optimistic I think that you guys have really set out a framework that could work very well for having that conversation I think good faith underpins. It has to be good faith on both sides and a commitment to do things right. But beyond that the conversation is beginning to happen and I'm very positive that it will yield some fruit in the future that we will be all very proud of. So hopefully that that sums it up for me I'll leave it there. Thank you so much Bernard for that elaboration and all those points that you brought up, which are very, very important and actually crucial and thank you for bringing them up I don't know which one to start mentioning and addressing first. There were so many, but I'm super glad that you feel challenged and other Mauritians feel challenge challenge is always a good thing. So, heads up to the youngsters, the Mauritian youngsters. As you said, their mentality and the way they look at Mauritianness can be very helpful in terms of the change that needs to be brought up for diaspora engagement in the future. And that's something that we tried to address a little within that framework as you mentioned. And the togetherness that they are all brought up with the music with sega we've heard a lot about that as well. So we understand that how they feel that they are Mauritians the relationship that they have and that they will build in the future may have positive effects actually on the development of the country to. There is quite a bit of research on diaspora that shows that whenever there is remittances coming in from female diaspora members. A lot of the patriarchy within the home country and the systems within the family is abolished and changed. So there's a lot of positive effects that can be brought as well as the work ethics and a lot of attitudes that can be transferred back home. In terms of connecting people and this is something that Clancy also mentioned in the chat box I saw now in the Q&A. It is very crucial I do agree to bring together Mauritians abroad within all the respective countries, as well as within pilot countries that we spoke to. And as we kind of mentioned throughout the presentation we have also noted that a lot of the Australian Mauritian organizations that we were talking to do not really necessarily collaborate with one another. And there's quite a bit of strengthening and room there to engage and create a structure that is much needed to actually alleviate that sense of belonging as well as to have a relationship with Mauritians. I'm not sure if Clancy was to add something and then maybe Martin, Tanja or Celine can also provide inputs. Thank you Bernard. Clancy. Yeah, I just wanted to add something that I did mention before. And then I said the same thing as well about the expectations of Mauritians in Australia in terms of their expectations. It's very, very different. They've changed because in Australia, I spoke about transparency, I spoke about openness, whereas in Mauritians it's not that open and transparent. So there need to be some adjustment and even the different generations of Mauritians in Australia, they look at things differently, like the older generation, the not so old and the younger ones and the Mauritians born, so those born of Mauritian parents here, their expectations is even different. So we need to reconcile a lot of that. It doesn't mean that it's a problem, but what we need to do is to coordinate and to generate all those forces together that can lead on to better things. So that's an important element and the other element is the thing that I mentioned. The Mauritian diaspora in Australia is fragmented in many ways. We need to bring this together. Thank you. Thank you, Clancy. Back to Martin. Yeah, first of all, it was a fascinating conversation and, you know, Clancy, your point about the fragmentation of bringing it together reminds me of something a professor friend told me many years ago when I was a young student and he made this quite astute reflection and I'll bring you back to that one moment. He said, don't fall into the trap of thinking that Ireland has just one diaspora has many of them. So I think what we need to figure out is that coordination piece and I think when I had you mentioned a key word and all of this and that's belonging. And I think what's really fascinating for me on one of the biggest potentials, not just from Mauritius but globally for diaspora engagement is that, you know, diaspora and migration are very closely related, but they're slightly different. And what's really interesting is that, you know, sadly and incorrectly, no migration has a very sensitive image in for a lot of people, you know, whether that's the political point of view or public confidence in the topic, but diaspora has a much more positive connotation and we have a line that we use when we present quite a bit and I'll share it now in a sense of migration is the language of borders and identity, but diaspora is the language of affinity and belonging. It's a very powerful way of looking about the role of the positive role that diaspora engagement can do for for the narrative on migration, because I think we have a really interesting role ahead on that point. And I think, you know, what I really wanted to pick up on as well from what I heard I think was incredibly astute was that sense of, of engaging with the vulnerable as well within the community I think we all have a responsibility. I come from a very small island, Ireland, where we're an island off an island off the edge of Europe, you know, technically nobody should care about us. We quickly realize that we have this global family. But what the Irish government do for example as well as that you know we have to make sure that it's not just about engaging the successful members of the diaspora yes that's very important for everything that we spoke about in terms of the capital. But we often say the migration journey is one of struggle to success to significance. And the hard reality is that that many migrants will may stay in the struggling category so we have a duty of care, and ethics of care to the diaspora to help as well and I think everything that you and Clancy have discussed about that coordination and building the community that organically begins to help. So I can give a very small example of what I mean by that. And I think you mentioned it brought out in a sense of, you know, new, new, new arrivals getting help from people that have been in the country for quite some time. You know, as I said the Irish, historically had two or three mechanisms to help each other one was the Irish pub I think everybody knows. The Irish pubs sprinkled all over the world, but we also have community associations and physical community centers for diaspora so when any Irish immigrant leaves this island and goes they have a space to go to get help so whether that's for, you know, immigration processes whether it's for you know just that sense of loneliness that can come with this journey and things like that but but that's the system that and the spirit of what the recommendations is trying to achieve. So I see we have another question. Again, it's from she but I want to link maybe this question to to where we're going from there was a final question from webinar one that we didn't get time to address or we want to include that in so maybe if I open this up to the floor, just in terms of the the two questions so she mentioned the expectations aspects aspects of the Mauritian community in Canada is different compared to Europe and Australia long term we can develop a linkage between the countries but we need to share best practices and experiences and bringing it bringing everyone together. The starting block is to talk with each other and community leaders should keep talking despite the differences. So that's more of a comment and reflection and I think look the quick answer is you're absolutely correct. From my perspective she but I think what's what's interesting for us is that we, we saw incredible community leaders like Clancy Bernard and then yourself she and you're all doing incredible work but but you're doing it in kind of silos that that makes sense so the challenge already for the community if you want to think of it that way is how do we link them, and that brings us to be top is come up again and again not just in the research but but this morning for example or this afternoon this evening depending on where you're dealing them from was, you know the different layers of of the community and the question that we received on Wednesday Wednesday's webinar that I open up to to a mirror and that I of course provide some reflections as well is what is the role of youth and women and supporting youth and women empowerment across these type of activities, because I think it leans back into the point about the values lead engagement, and what those values come to represent not just for current generations but for future generations. So a mirror to have any immediate reactions I can give a much more detailed answer but I'll open it back to you because you know as the female lead of this team I think it's only fair that you get fresh out of this. I'm not a feminist of this team but also yourself I think you could give a fair shot at it as well. As far as the, the women and youth and the importance that they have as vulnerable groups, so to speak as well as other vulnerable groups as mentioned throughout the recommended actions as well as the reflections that we noted throughout this research. It seems crucial also from the members of diaspora that we spoke to that there was mainstreaming of gender throughout the policy development as well as throughout all initiatives that were to be developed for diaspora and the values that this brings across as Bernard we're saying even in terms of youth and their expectations and their level of connectivity are quite different than of other generations. It's crucial again to note that the diaspora of Mauritians are very different in within different groups they're not homogeneous so they have different interests and that is something that needs to come across. I wanted to mention actually earlier while Bernard was also addressing that point that there was this research quote that we had that was very interesting and that actually depicts that there's different groups within groups and that there are fragmented groups in Australia or elsewhere of Mauritians, however, as this quote says they're all Mauritian in the end, it says, when we are at home, we stay within our respective communities, but when we leave, we are one, we are a Mauritian. And I think the sense of belonging and the sense of integration from all different groups is extremely important when developing a diaspora engagement plan. Martin you can you can you can add now. Okay, I think you covered the most, most aspects of it but there was simple reality with particularly when we look at the recommendations, the type of initiatives and recommendations for example such as the, the leadership network did the next generation camp. We see those as very practical opportunities to really celebrate and include gender diversity and youth. So that's the more programmatic response or reflection, but just from a personal point of view, you know, I've been involved in some incredible diaspora women's network so for example there's the African diaspora women's network there's Turkish win, which is the Turkish women's international network. And you just have to look at the research in terms of female led enterprises and it's smart policy to do this. What I'm trying to say so I think you know you'll see in the spirit of the report and the recommendations. And I think the data and you know the gender breakdown of survey respondents for example tell us that having really strong type of activities that can mainstream gender and youth is incredibly important but behind it all is just smart, smart thing to do, to be honest. So and I think what's really interesting as well for us. Beyond that and I think it comes back to the point of managing expectations and I do want to, I do want or maybe varying expectations I do want to spend maybe just kind of a quick 30 seconds on that. You know, where you'll see it in the wider report, because what we're sharing this morning is the recommendations but what we talk about, you know, the longevity and the type of relationships and how that gets built and I think Bernard and Clancy have brought up communication for example and community building. So what I would say to the diaspora and people listening in on the call that have an interest in this topic for Mauritius is that this is the beginning of the journey. And in many ways, what's really unique and powerful about particularly what the IOM have done through this work is to look at that sense of, how can we be the developer of development, if that makes sense. So how can we be the developer of the framework development to really make this flourish. So I just want to bring up that point of, you know, just think of this as a long term vision and a long term relationship and process. And that makes things manageable as well. You know, sometimes there's, there's a reality of this as well that we need to realize that, you know, sometimes diaspora engagement does not work. And one reflection I have on that from talking to people that have been involved in some of those initiatives is that quite often they get launched like fireworks and they disappear very quickly. It's about being slow, methodical, inspirational when we can, but just doing things that work and hopefully from the recommendations you'll see those types of activities will flesh out. So I don't know if the colleagues have any reflections on that, just give me a nod or just jump in if you do, but we have a couple of quick questions. Yes, just to add on that, Martin, on the, so I don't know if you can hear me. Can you hear me? Yes, yeah, yeah. Okay, I think it was just a bit from my side. So I was, I was just going to add on that question of engaging more of a youth diaspora. So I am so we currently have a project in the pipeline, which is the pilot youth diaspora volunteer program that we will try to launch by this year. So with the objective like of strengthening cultural and emotional ties with the diaspora and having youth coming and contributing to more issues. I just wanted to, to inform everyone on that and we'll look forward to have your support and contribution on that as well as we will start the implementation. So I don't know if sitting wants to add anything on that. Thank you. If I may just add a few things on that. So the idea and we really hear and thank you so much, Philip and Bernard for your input is very, very valuable. And for all the comments of the people who are following us live on Facebook or on Zoom. I think what we hear is really the idea of bringing the diaspora together of talking to each other. And that's also where as IOM we are here to support because it's also about how we can offer you ways or platforms to have those discussions. I think that some of the recommendations from these consultations are about that, you know, the different platforms, the different conferences are an area to really discuss those issues. And one very important comment that I see in the chat box as well is about the involvement and the support of the government of Mauritius. So that's where also it's important to really have all the parties discussing together and really moving forward. And that's really the idea of developing this action plan. This action plan is for the government. But of course there are some things that as IOM will also bring with us and see how we can from our side support the diaspora so that they are empowered and they are valued. And so that you can further benefit, further contribute to the development of Mauritius. I think that's the main idea is really for us to know how we can support you. As it has been said, it is the beginning of a journey. The road is not straight, it will be very long, but we will do that together. And I think that's the most important. And from the experience in other countries, sometimes it fails because we don't have that from the beginning and because we sometimes will forget one party along the road. You know, we are focused on the diaspora, but the government is not on board. And we must not also forget Mauritians in Mauritius. So it's really something that with this kind of symbiosis, this synergy that we need to create so that everyone is on board and really create something that is sustainable. It will take some time, but we are committed. As Tanya has said, more is coming. We are proposing some programs and some initiatives and we are eager to also hear about your ideas, your views on how we can better support you as diaspora in your engagement. So thank you. Thank you, Selina. Incredibly well said. And I think, you know, just picking up on the point of government, there's a lot of great research out there on this topic. And, you know, what's really interesting is understanding the role of government in diaspora engagement. There tends to be kind of two schools of thought in the sense of the government being the implementer or the facilitator. Well, globally is being the government more of a facilitator of diaspora engagement. So I just wanted to reflect that. We had a really interesting comment as well from Sandeep, I believe, who spoke about the ideas around tourism and traveling back to connect Mauritius and the importance of that for cultural heritage and things like that for the next generation, but also looking at the cold hard economic benefit of it. And I think it's a really interesting point. And I can share a personal story that might help reflect that. And again, this is tough to say as a very proud Irish person. But if you think back to the last financial crisis, Ireland in many ways was the poster child of failure in the sense of the economic reality of the situation. What the Irish government did, for example, in terms of diaspora tourism, we had an initiative called the Gathering. And it was essentially what we're looking at in terms of the recommendation here. It was a year long invitation to the Irish diaspora to come back and visit. So whether they wanted to visit their long-lost families, ancestors, explore different Irish historical sites or cultural sites and everything that goes with that. But that was one of the main drivers of getting Ireland out of the economic hole that we were in. It created incredible numbers of jobs in the tourism sector, which is incredibly important to Ireland. And it was done at a very relatively low cost. And I think the reason I bring it up is it gets across this idea of learning from others, learning from others as well. So there was nothing unique about that idea for Ireland. We actually copied it from Scotland across the water. So a couple of years earlier, Scotland had the homecoming. So again, what you'll see in the report, for example, is that we'll be able to sprinkle in where these types of initiatives have worked elsewhere. And the reason why we can do that, and I'll finish on this point before we kind of begin to wrap up, we have a question or comment from Bella and we'll address that. The challenge in it, if you will, for example, or the opportunity is that diaspora engagement is non-competitive. So somebody that wants to help Mauritius does not want to help Ireland. And what we actually probably lack in the sector is more sharing. It's one of the few sectors in the world that's actually non-competitive, so we can share as much as we want. So I just wanted to bring that up. So the final question that I can see, but Amira, please let me know if I'm missing anything, and I can come back and I think Celine may want to engage as well. So Bella asked in the chat box, can you give me reasons why it is a long and bumpy road to get the Mauritian government to engage with the Mauritian diaspora? I can go first on that, Celine, if you will, because I think it's more addressed to your own intervention. So what we're trying to articulate here is not necessarily that it's going to be an arduous process. I think the signs from the government are very positive. You know, when you look at the willingness and eagerness to create a diaspora cell, it's more just to manage expectations in the sense of how long we need to look at in terms of engaging with the diaspora. We see this as a very much a long term vision. So my general reflections of collaborating with government or interaction with government in terms of sharing the recommendations and the findings is that they have been very open to us as researchers. They wanted to hear the good, the bad, and the indifferent. So I wouldn't be overly nervous. I just think in any country, in most countries, there's always some issues that will be sensitive. And, you know, diasporas have opinions, and vice versa, governments have opinions, and it's about managing those. So I think the relationship can be built. I wouldn't be overly nervous about that. And I think we can get there, as Bernard and Clancy said, if things are, you know, done in an open way, a very clear communication strategy and building the right type of partnerships. So that's my reflections on this, Celine. I don't know if you want to come back in or anybody else. Sure, thank you. Yes, very interesting question, and a good one, an important one. I wouldn't answer for the government, of course. But my perspective on that is that, well, it's not easy to engage with the diaspora because, you know, there's a lot of parameters to take into account. Like from the IOMs experience in like many countries, including in Mauritius, I think that the issue of trust is the main thing that hinders that in the sense that if the government approaches the diaspora, they maybe, you know, they don't do it like necessarily, you know, with the right approach because they're not used to it. They don't have the tools and everything. And the diaspora is like reluctant and there's always this issue of trust. And I think that's all in all what the important thing to really keep from that is that the government is willing to engage. Definitely. There is migration and development policy of Mauritius that has been adopted in June to 2018, where it's clearly mentioned that Mauritius needs to further engage as diaspora. So since then it has been there and it's a policy, so it's definitely a commitment. And since then we have been working with the government to see how they can engage. And the reason why IOM has led this research is also because of this lack of trust, because it's very important also sometimes to have a third party that is totally independent to conduct that because it's easier also to engage and it's probably easier for you to be frank and honest in what you expect, what is right and what is wrong. As we said, you know, we are welcome to any feedback, whether it's something positive or not positive, because that's how we can improve and move forward. So I think that's the main idea. And that's also the role of IOM is to see and to like be kind of this bridge to make sure that we move forward together. But yeah, engaging with the diaspora is really not easy because yeah, as Martin has said, you know, the diaspora, you are very, very strong, you have a strong voice, you have opinions. You know, there are like difficult things also that have to be discussed. You know, it's linked to the consular services, it's linked to the rights to vote. So those are questions that are not easy to tackle. So the idea of engaging now is to see how we can, little by little, address all that and build something that is sustainable and build a partnership. So that would be my take on this question regarding the government's engagement with the diaspora. And if I may just very quickly respond to another question that I see from Sandip relating to the issue of traveling. So Sandip, like, believe that the recommendation about traveling is one of the basis to enable Mauritius diaspora to connect and also to give the opportunity to younger generations to visit. So definitely, so this has been included in the report. And just so you know, so this survey is part of an overall project. And as part of this project, we have set up a technical working group here in Mauritius with a different. It's an internal ministerial and multi stakeholder technical working group. So we have members of like representatives of ministries, but also from the academia from the civil society and from the private sector. And for example, we have a representative from from Mauritius. So it's definitely something that we know about. And as we move forward, we really want to see how this can be improved because it's a reality we know about it and we know that, you know, how can we offer younger generations the possibility to to visit and to engage and not just to visit in the sense that to be tourists because the experience when you are visiting us to Mauritius and visiting the family and when you actually leave are different and that's also why we have proposed this pilot project for giving the opportunity to a few young members of the diaspora to come to Mauritius for a few months and to work here and to contribute to the country and really connect with the with the country. So we would be happy to also hear about your views about that because all of that will really help us in designing like useful programs and tools that really are meeting your expectations and that are adapted also and can contribute to the development of Mauritius. Thank you. Over to you, Martin. Thank you so much, Lina. That was incredibly detailed. So I appreciate that I think Bella has just posted a follow up comment in the sense that, like every diaspora will be differences in opinion. But as a government, you have to accept that and any elected government will face the same issues. I completely agree, Bella, you know, if you look at it, if you look at successful diaspora engagement programs from a governmental level, one thing really interesting is that we're beginning to walk that path already through the research. The number one skill in diaspora engagement is actually listening and listening to your diaspora and giving them the space to do that. So I think we're on the same page and genuinely I want to come back to the travel as well because I think it's quite similar in Ireland. You know, the really interesting dynamic at work here, particularly for engaging with the private sector, is that the private sector is waking up to the real commercial power of diaspora consumers. So what's really interesting, for example, if you want to just anecdotal evidence of that, where we begin to see and you would have seen it in the presentation from a mirror about the economist on the front page, the even very simple thing like the appearance of diaspora engagement in trade publications, for example, is growing phenomenally. So what we're seeing is that the private sector now is not just for the financial perspective of it, you know, for the skills and enhancing your competitiveness. The private sector in a lot of countries are really beginning to figure this out and I think, you know, it would be remiss of us not to reflect on where we find ourselves, you know, sitting virtually in a room. Diaspora engagement for post COVID economic recovery plans, particularly for smaller countries is critically important and it's something that we, for example, in Ireland are also thinking through because small countries need their global friends advocating for them. And you don't have any better, any better global friends than your own people. So the question is how do you actually build that. So I think, amazingly, we're kind of on time when you're doing this in terms of technology. So the final, the final session where we, and I think we've organically addressed it in terms of some of the next steps. So you will see more information and the final report in due course. But also what we're doing is developing an action plan from these recommendations. So I think you may or I would have shared the link earlier in the chat box if you want to have a one to one conversation with us on this. I think you can book a time there or if you have any wider questions or reflections on the webinar, because sometimes it can take a while to kind of digest everything and go through it in more detail. We are here. We want to have as many meetings as possible. Come find us. You know, we're easy to find. So I will hand back to Amira maybe for any final reflections and I just want to thank Celine, Tanya, and Amira, particularly for the presentation and her leadership on the webinar, particularly Bernard and Clancy for giving up their time. And I finish on this note. I'm not sure if Clancy knows this, but I believe he was one of the first people I actually spoke to about this project and indeed he may be the first. So, so I want to thank them both for giving up their time on a weekend and I don't want to say to everybody that was that was listening in thank you for your interaction thank you for for getting engaged. We have incredible people like Celine and Tanya really leading the journey leading the journey in Mauritius so we're confident of this leading somewhere positive. So thank you for your time, attention, and I'll hand back to Amira for any final reflections from our horrendous before Tanya closes up. Thank you, Martin, and thanks to everyone for being here today but also for discussing all these matters in quite a detail. It's important that we have these conversations and I hope as Martin said that many of you will indeed schedule meetings with us either through the link I shared earlier, but also just via email or whatever medium you prefer. The one point that was mentioned about the sensitivities and the strong voice of diaspora and issues that are brought up here and there and the talks that they like to have to the government. I just wanted to restate and if I didn't mention earlier that as far as our talks with the diaspora. I should rest assured that all the sensitivities that were shared with us and that will continue to be shared with us will not be left unaddressed in the recommendations and the research that we develop as well as in the action plan. I think it is crucial that we do have these conversations and as Helene said in this case we are fortunate and you are fortunate to have I am as a broker so to speak and as that bridge to actually get there. It will be a long journey but it will succeed especially with a diaspora like yourselves on that note. I think I can speak on behalf of Martin as well as we had quite a bit of conversations on this but we have met incredible people while talking to the population diaspora throughout these interviews. We have met even friends I can say. So it was great meeting you all. It was great having you here in this webinar and the webinar held on Wednesday. And we actually have one more webinar lined up for Sunday. So in case you have fellow Mauritians that are in different areas and time zones please spread the word. There will be one more webinar of the same content but we just wish to engage with as many Mauritians as possible. Thank you again and back to Tanya for closing. Thank you Amira. So I would just like to join you to say thank you to everyone and especially our guest speakers today. So Clancy and Ben-Ord. So thank you very much for taking the time of I think of your busy schedule to be part of this dialogue today. We want to keep hearing from you and what can I say could design the future with you. So just to go back to our tagline during the consultations last year so Cousin Utande we hear you and we hope to make your feedback reflect in our work. So thank you again Amira and Martin for leading this research and discussion today. As Amira said don't hesitate to share the webinar that we'll be holding tomorrow with your friends, networks and families if they wish to further engage with us. On that note I would leave to Céline if she wants to say some closing words and I wish you everyone a good day, afternoon or night for wherever you are. Thank you very much. Thank you. Just say thank you. Merci beaucoup. Please book like one-to-one meetings with Amira and Martin again like everything is also anonymous I would like to stress that it is so like please feel free to really share whatever you have in mind and your ideas. Thank you again. Merci beaucoup. Thank you everyone have a good day. Thanks all see you. Have a good day. Bye.