 playing and coaching volleyball. And then one day at work, I realized that if I actually treated the workgroup as a volleyball team, then they get kind of fantastic results. It was such a big shift. So I realized I could coach the team coaching at work. So I think that was over like 25 years ago or 20 years ago at least. So I became exploring that potential and coaching teams and then kind of scaling that for organizations as well in the lot.