 It's got a smoothie. So what do you think of what you saw there? Kind of expected it. You expected it? Yeah. Do you have a hard time believing that that's actually Australian footage here? I thought they would have had legislation in place to stop that. But if you say it's Australian, of course it would be. You wouldn't lie to me. Yeah. What sort of legislation you think would stop them from slashing an animal's throat open if that's how they've got to kill them? Or if you put it that way, of course it wouldn't be any legislation to stop it doing it that way. Well let's look for example when the footage came out of the cowsman slaughtered in Indonesia and we stopped imports to there. That's the type of stuff that you saw in that video that I just watched. Yeah. Well they used the bolt gun method there, yeah? I saw that, yeah it was one of the cows. I think they missed. Is that correct in one of the video? They missed with the bolt gun and they had to go again? Yeah. That happens a bit. That honestly would not surprise me if that happens. And how are we supposed to have eyes in every single slaughterhouse to watch how these... But let's just say it's all done to the standard that you expect. The thing is, all of that was taken from security footage and these people would probably... It's not hidden cameras. They're hidden cameras from activists. They're not knowingly being filmed. So you look pretty moved by what you saw on the video just there. Can you please explain how it made you feel? It's just kind of I guess shocked. Shocked? Yeah. Why shocked? Well, just I don't know how people can treat other life like that. It's quite disgusting. Yeah. Well, when I first seen it I was shocked too and I couldn't understand how someone could do that to an animal too. But then I realised something that they were only doing that for one reason. And that was because I was wanting to eat their bodies or eat something from them or use them in some way. Like let's just say like the standard that you would expect for an animal to be killed. What would you think would be okay? Well, of course. I've watched many things. People would say well, they've got to be stunned. They could be a thing. And then you say the stunned guns don't work sometimes, stuff like that. What if they did work? Would that make it okay? Well, then it gets to the point of do we really need to eat these animals and stuff like that. That's where it comes so I can see you smiling. You do watch some of my videos, don't you? I watch quite a lot of them actually. So you know we can be healthy without it? Oh no, I've met my girlfriend and she's been going vegan for three weeks now. And I do a lot of the cooking at home and I honestly don't mind. Don't miss it. I don't eat meat. Let's say I used to eat because my father was a butcher as a child. We used to eat meat all the time. I don't eat meat as much as much now. So that would mean that it would be easier for you because you don't eat much that you could just phase it out a lot easier. It's the milk I'm having trouble with. I don't particularly like soy. Say I want a burger. I'm paying for that to happen. Did you make that connection? Yeah, of course. I made that connection a long time ago. So you're already vegan? I haven't eaten commercial meat or anything like that for quite a while. So explain non-commercial meat for everyone? So meat that I've hunted or catching fish in the sea and I can break its neck and then instantly put it there and send it off kind of thing. And it's like connection to your food in a sense that this is quite a different kind of meat eating in a way. Yeah, wow. So you don't like soy milk in particular? It's the flavor. Have you tried oat milk, almond milk, rice milk, hemp milk? Hemp milk's delicious. What was oat milk like? Oat milk's the most neutral milk you can get, I'd say. I'll try that one. But you know about the dairy industry, don't you? Oh yeah. About them separating the families, killing the mothers. I grew up down a coast down in New South Wales that I've been to dairy farms as a child. You hear the cows bellowing out? Yeah. Yeah, horrible. So do you think that's necessary because you like the taste of milk? No. Yeah, yeah, of course. I have the guilt of when I'm every time I pick you up the milk to have me weedies in the morning. You know that, it doesn't take long for your taste buds to readjust. I know. So if you find a milk that, like what I did when my mum was getting my mum off the dairy, I went out and bought five different types of milk, oat milk, rice milk, almond milk, all the nut milks and got her to choose her favorite one. And she chose like, she likes almond. Now she likes soy. She's slowly moved into soy. It's heaps to choose what from. Maybe you could try transitioning. I could try a few. I know what I'm catching. I have a connection with it. It understands it's a way of life. And I can, and I also personally believe that it's quite harmonious. This on the other hand is just disgusting and suffering. You think there's a difference between the way you kill animals and the way they kill animals? Yeah. Do you think the animals are willing in either situation? No. Yeah. But every animal kind of knows that like, especially in the wild, that it's like, you know, everything eats everything, even plants are alive. Yeah. And like, we all understand this, but it's like, this is, it's, and this is like, it's quick, you know, in the, like when you're fishing, when you catch a fish, it's like a quick death and you can like say a prayer for it. Yeah. Like, you know, do whatever you can to feel that like there wasn't any suffering involved and if it was, it was very small amount. One thing too, I don't like, I've tried vegan cheese, but cheese man, I'm going to find a really good one. Good vegan cheese. Yeah. You know about the queso morphine and cheese, yeah? It's physically addictive. Yeah. But that doesn't take the onus of your responsibility. I know what you mean because I used to work in hospitality. So I understand what people mean when they get higher quality ingredients, especially cheese for one, which costs $70 a kilo easily. And a few animals their life. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like if you could find one that you like, maybe we could get you off the cheese in a dairy and the meat would be easy. The meat's easy. I don't eat much. I tell you the truth, meat's too expensive because whenever I honestly tried to get meat, I'd try to go organic. My own stepfather was a butcher. I had quite a lot of organic meat. And I could taste the difference between the two. But then it comes up the issue of raising that meat. I remember this... The animal, not the meat. Yeah, the animal. It came up with the how much land it takes to grow vegetables compared to how much land it takes to feed a cow, for example, compared to what you can feed yourself with vegetables in the backyard. It's unsustainable. Yes. And those organic cows usually will go to the same slaughterhouse as the other cows. Yeah. So they all get killed the same. Their lives are ended at a percentage of their lifespan. So do you think that if we can live without eating these animals that obviously suffer, they're obviously sent in a carrot, bread, plant foods don't scream in pain. Do you think that if we can live without hunting them on snapping their necks or even putting them in these slaughterhouses, do you think that we should maybe? Yeah. There was a time where maybe we could have lived as hunter-gatherers, but their population's too great now. So back then we're doing it to survive. Now why are we doing it? Yeah. Do you think that we even need to do what you're doing? Even to that extent do we even need to go out and hunt animals if we can go to the supermarket? Well, I feel like conscious food choices is just sort of like up to each individual and how they feel to be the most thing, but I feel like it just has to be conscious. Like when I was a child I said I went to an abattoir with my father and I was quite young and all I remember is half a cow hanging and those guys with giant swords just hacking it. How did that make you feel? Hungry? I was four years old, I can't remember. Probably a bit traumatised, yeah? Maybe. Really? Because I was quite often in the stepfather's butcher shop quite a lot, so I saw that stuff quite a lot. Let's just say like, I'll leave you with this. So the way you hunt ethically, if I was to go up and hunt someone's dog ethically and snap their neck and eat their body, but I said a prayer, would that exonerate me from the crime of killing that person's dog? Or in the dog's eyes would that be justified if I said a prayer and snapped their neck and do you know what I'm saying? Now I kind of feel like I'm being interrogated rather than interviewed. How about you sign up to challenge 22 and give a vegan challenge a go? Pretty much already trying to do that. You're trying to do it yourself? Stop already. No, I was trying to make the connection with the animal because the dog is important in our eyes, but these other animals aren't. They're saying like, for me, all animals feel and suffer the same. That's all I'm trying to say with that. I'm not trying to interrogate you. I agree. I'd say it's kind of different because dogs are domesticated and you can't compare dog to wolf really. You can't? No. You can. They're essentially the same species, but there's a whole lot of different... In their mentality or the way they want to live is different? They have much different mentalities, yeah. How about from this day forward, you make more of a push into the right direction? I've been trying. Honestly, I have. Thanks for your perspective on that. Did that change your eating habits at all or you just keep doing what you're doing or you feel compelled to change or you feel a little bit moved by it? All of the food I eat comes from farmer's markets and it's like vegetables from farmer's markets. When I do eat it, it's fish that I catch every once a month or so. I look forward to hearing your success story. Thanks. Cheers bro. Thanks for your interview. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Bye.